From kost36 at otenet.gr Sat May 1 01:40:44 2004 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:40:44 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <1861111.1082475577664.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> <1932337508.20040420175347@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004201c42f47$3c110b70$0100a8c0@kost36> Hi group, I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by leter into a combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. Thank's Kostas Konstantinidis From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:13:11 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:13:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <768136239.20040501121311@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > Congratulations to our new elected board members. Elections were concluded > Wednesday, 28 of April 2004. We have a new President, Vice-president and > Secretary. Other board members remained in their current positions. > A heart felt thanks to our retiring board members. Their contribution and > hard work was very much appreciated. Thank you all. What happened? In March Rocky reported these nice people to be at the board for a year? Not that the new members aren't nice - just wondering ... /gustav > The results have been posted at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/ From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:20:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:20:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08550294.20040501122005@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Or you may need to do a requery, though you'll have to use bookmarks to restore the currently selected records ... /gustav > Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just before > you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's background > tasks before continuing with code execution. > Jim > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent > Hi all > Using AXP in WinXP > I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs > calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. > Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no > field being set to yes. > On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the > subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent > straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. > If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything is > fine. > I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh > button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay > resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried > requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the > refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:28:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:28:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1949057493.20040501122832@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Another approach: If your app allows (does not write to or modify itself), split it in a frontend and backend and write-protect the frontend file (mark it as read only). This will cause zero change at the users' machines. /gustav > I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our > department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. > There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout > the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to > split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, > it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a > glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check > revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to > placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. > What do you think? From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:47:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:47:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo In-Reply-To: <004201c42f47$3c110b70$0100a8c0@kost36> References: <1861111.1082475577664.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> <1932337508.20040420175347@cactus.dk> <004201c42f47$3c110b70$0100a8c0@kost36> Message-ID: <15010224191.20040501124759@cactus.dk> Hi Kostas > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > leter into a combo box to appear the respectively records into a > releated list box. I guess so. Use something like this to filter the recordsource of the listbox: ".. LIKE '" & cboYourCombobox.Text & "*'" Then requery the listbox at the KeyPress and AfterUpdate or Change event. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 07:42:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:42:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Using the shell() function In-Reply-To: <20040429121707.1417978362.serbach@new.rr.com> References: <20040429121707.1417978362.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <12717091506.20040501144226@cactus.dk> Hi Steven I've sent the sample to you (and a few others) off-line. /gustav >> If you like, you can get my module which, of course, is heavily >> customized but I'm convinced you can easily extract what you need and >> modify it. << > Of course I would like that. What do I need to do? From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat May 1 08:25:45 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 06:25:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA References: <768136239.20040501121311@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <005f01c42f7f$cf82e2b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I took that long to get the official meeting together to announce the official results. Just formalities. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:13 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA > Hi Jim > > > Congratulations to our new elected board members. Elections were concluded > > Wednesday, 28 of April 2004. We have a new President, Vice-president and > > Secretary. Other board members remained in their current positions. > > > A heart felt thanks to our retiring board members. Their contribution and > > hard work was very much appreciated. Thank you all. > > What happened? > In March Rocky reported these nice people to be at the board for a > year? Not that the new members aren't nice - just wondering ... > > /gustav > > > > The results have been posted at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From serbach at new.rr.com Sat May 1 08:26:24 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:26:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Using the shell() function Message-ID: <20040501082624.1913387082.serbach@new.rr.com> Gustav, Thank you for your help and forebearance. I resolve to pay more attention in future having learned that my comments have consequences! Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat May 1 09:21:25 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:21:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE579@TAPPEEXCH01> Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the Change event: Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM Customers " & _ "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Hi group, I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by leter into a combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. Thank's Kostas Konstantinidis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat May 1 09:30:05 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 07:30:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE579@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <00c901c42f88$cbecad80$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Do you need a Me!lstMyListBox.Requery after the change of row source? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? > In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the Change > event: > > Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () > > Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > Customers " & _ > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > > End Sub > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > Hi group, > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > leter into a > combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. > > Thank's > Kostas Konstantinidis > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 1 09:11:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 07:11:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA In-Reply-To: <768136239.20040501121311@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Lembit: Of course we are nice...but I just can not be too immodest. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA Hi Jim > Congratulations to our new elected board members. Elections were concluded > Wednesday, 28 of April 2004. We have a new President, Vice-president and > Secretary. Other board members remained in their current positions. > A heart felt thanks to our retiring board members. Their contribution and > hard work was very much appreciated. Thank you all. What happened? In March Rocky reported these nice people to be at the board for a year? Not that the new members aren't nice - just wondering ... /gustav > The results have been posted at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat May 1 09:48:01 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:48:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> I don't think so. When you change the rowsource, it should implicitly requery itself since it reruns the query. OOPS! Just realized that I was using the wrong property. It should be RowSource, not RecordSource: ---------- Me!lstMyListBox.RowSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM Customers " & _ "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Do you need a Me!lstMyListBox.Requery after the change of row source? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? > In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the Change > event: > > Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () > > Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > Customers " & _ > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > > End Sub > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > Hi group, > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > leter into a > combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. > > Thank's > Kostas Konstantinidis > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From kost36 at otenet.gr Sat May 1 12:33:10 2004 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 20:33:10 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> Hi Brett, may be I didn't manage to explain what I exactly want to do. Well, Into a form there are: a text box (txt_names) and a list box (list_names) The main table MT_basic_char in which there is the Last_name (about 3 thousand names) is the source of the asking data When I put the event Private Sub txt_names_Change() Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "'" End Sub and begin to write with e.g. the letters kos it should answer with all the records beginning with "kos" etc etc Instead of that in the list I see only ==> SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like 'kos' Am I doing something wrong? Thank's all Kostas Konstantinidis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > I don't think so. When you change the rowsource, it should implicitly > requery itself since it reruns the query. > > OOPS! Just realized that I was using the wrong property. It should be > RowSource, not RecordSource: > ---------- > Me!lstMyListBox.RowSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > Customers " & _ > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > ---------- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:30 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > Do you need a Me!lstMyListBox.Requery after the change of row source? > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > > Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? > > In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the > Change > > event: > > > > Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () > > > > Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > > Customers " & _ > > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > > > > End Sub > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > > > > Hi group, > > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > > leter into a > > combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. > > > > Thank's > > Kostas Konstantinidis > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 1 15:39:21 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:39:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> Message-ID: <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. Best Wishes Martin From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat May 1 15:58:31 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 16:58:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <4093D737.28444.2016FD2@localhost> On 1 May 2004 at 21:39, Martin Reid wrote: > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. > Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih > would improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the > parameters which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. I don't know what the parameter is Martin, Gustav will probably have it :), but I just had a similar problem receently. My problem was that I had an A2K FE and an A97 BE. Form load time went from 20-25 seconds to less than 1/2 second after I converted the BE to A2K. Might be something to look at too. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 1 18:50:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:50:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo In-Reply-To: <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> Message-ID: <4094C47C.6469.99510@localhost> On 1 May 2004 at 20:33, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote: > Hi Brett, > may be I didn't manage to explain what I exactly want to do. > Well, Into a form there are: a text box (txt_names) and a list box > (list_names) > The main table MT_basic_char in which there is the Last_name (about 3 > thousand names) is the source of the asking data > > When I put the event > Private Sub txt_names_Change() > Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE > [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "'" > End Sub > > and begin to write with e.g. the letters kos it should answer with all the > records beginning with "kos" etc etc > > Instead of that in the list I see only ==> SELECT [Last_Name] FROM > [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like 'kos' > > Am I doing something wrong? > Set the RowSourceType of list_names to "Table/Query". It must be currently set to "Value List". -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lytlenj at yahoo.com Sat May 1 19:52:58 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <20040502005258.76275.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com> I think you need to add some kind of wild card to your statement so that it is looking for kos* not just kos. Private Sub txt_names_Change() Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "*'" End Sub Nancy From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat May 1 21:50:17 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:50:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57B@TAPPEEXCH01> Oops (again). That's exactly the ticket! -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lytle [mailto:lytlenj at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo I think you need to add some kind of wild card to your statement so that it is looking for kos* not just kos. Private Sub txt_names_Change() Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "*'" End Sub Nancy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun May 2 02:29:38 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 00:29:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <4094A362.5080105@shaw.ca> For a different file based database running on Novell with windows clients http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_net_fact_sheet.htm There is also a record lock parameter that is set too low by default on Novell It is listed in Novell KB Martin Reid wrote: >I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. >Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would >improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters >which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. > > >Best Wishes >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 2 02:53:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:53:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <352257325.20040502095312@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. > Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would > improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters > which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. Sadly, I don't think we ever heard from Seth what he came up with ... So, first, ask your NetWare admin to check these settings: SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS = 200000 SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS PER CONNECTION = 100000 For newer NetWare version (>=5?) they should be default. If not, they can simply be typed in (as shown) at the console as they are dynamic. If it works they should be inserted in the autoexec.ncf file. Second, check that your Novell clients are up to date. Also, look up the thread Excel 2000 to Access 2000 link slow on Novell network from July 2002. It may not represent your situation but has some hints. If you are running Access 97 data (Jet 3.5) on Access 2000 that may be an issue of its own. /gustav From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sun May 2 03:17:45 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:17:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01><008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36><000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <352257325.20040502095312@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c4301d$f4004620$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Gustav Main database is Access 2000. On start up it links into multiple Access 97 databases!. WIll try that out and see how it goes. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access > Hi Martin > > > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. > > Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would > > improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters > > which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. > > Sadly, I don't think we ever heard from Seth what he came up with ... > > So, first, ask your NetWare admin to check these settings: > > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS = 200000 > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS PER CONNECTION = 100000 > > For newer NetWare version (>=5?) they should be default. > If not, they can simply be typed in (as shown) at the console as they > are dynamic. If it works they should be inserted in the autoexec.ncf > file. > > Second, check that your Novell clients are up to date. > > Also, look up the thread > > Excel 2000 to Access 2000 link slow on Novell network > > from July 2002. It may not represent your situation but has some > hints. > > If you are running Access 97 data (Jet 3.5) on Access 2000 that may be > an issue of its own. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kost36 at otenet.gr Sun May 2 03:59:04 2004 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:59:04 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <4094C47C.6469.99510@localhost> Message-ID: <002001c43023$bb578440$0100a8c0@kost36> Gustav, Brett, Rocky, Stuart and Nancy Fixed Thank's a lot for you help Kostas Konstantinidis From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 2 10:41:06 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:41:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese Message-ID: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 2 11:23:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:23:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design view. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 2 13:38:46 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:38:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <00c301c43074$b41fa990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear list: Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 2 16:23:35 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 07:23:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c301c43074$b41fa990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <4095F377.17925.116FCE@localhost> On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Dear list: > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks you can use. One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 04:03:55 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:03:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: <08550294.20040501122005@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000201c430ed$a393a080$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Thanks... That's how I've been doing it :O( In the main form I am using my own version of dSum etc. and it still returns the old value, even after the requery... Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 01 May 2004 11:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi Mark Or you may need to do a requery, though you'll have to use bookmarks to restore the currently selected records ... /gustav > Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just > before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's > background tasks before continuing with code execution. > Jim > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent > Hi all > Using AXP in WinXP > I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs > calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. > Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no > field being set to yes. > On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the > subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent > straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. > If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything > is fine. > I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh > button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay > resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried > requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the > refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 04:17:16 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c430ef$7f4e4750$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Thanks Jim... That may well be what I'm looking for. Will try it out later Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 30 April 2004 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Mark, Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's background tasks before continuing with code execution. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi all Using AXP in WinXP I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no field being set to yes. On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything is fine. I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. Any one got any pointers, I'd be real greatful. Thanks and have a good weekend (I'm off at last) Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 04:17:16 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: <08550294.20040501122005@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000401c430ef$82447ce0$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Thanks... That's how I've been doing it :O( In the main form I am using my own version of dSum etc. and it still returns the old value, even after the requery... Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 01 May 2004 11:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi Mark Or you may need to do a requery, though you'll have to use bookmarks to restore the currently selected records ... /gustav > Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just > before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's > background tasks before continuing with code execution. > Jim > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent > Hi all > Using AXP in WinXP > I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs > calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. > Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no > field being set to yes. > On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the > subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent > straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. > If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything > is fine. > I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh > button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay > resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried > requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the > refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon May 3 04:25:10 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 02:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating from A2K to A2002 Message-ID: <20040503092510.57151.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need to migrate an Access 2000 database using Ado, dao, saved queries, classes, api calls,etc to Access 2002. can anybody ginve me some URL's/tips on where to look for changed stuff, pittfalls, etc. tia Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 3 05:18:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:18:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer References: <20040503092510.57151.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c430f8$0dde9490$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I want to test the time taken to Open a form - get the load time Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that is covered. Would anyone have a function that measures such things? Martin From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 05:57:29 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 06:57:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer References: <20040503092510.57151.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> <000701c430f8$0dde9490$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000601c430fd$6d93abf0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...take a look at http://www.CleanDataSystems.com William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:18 AM Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer > I want to test the time taken to > > Open a form - get the load time > > Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a > file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that > is covered. > > > Would anyone have a function that measures such things? > > Martin > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 3 06:43:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 07:43:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer In-Reply-To: <000701c430f8$0dde9490$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Martin, I have a timer class with a test db to demonstrate it. The only way to time the opening of the form is to place the timer init in the button click that opens the form since the load happens BEFORE the code in the form is loaded. Go to my site, click Misc Demos, then click C2DbTimerClass. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer I want to test the time taken to Open a form - get the load time Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that is covered. Would anyone have a function that measures such things? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 07:44:53 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:44:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: This would be ideal, however the primary reason I need to split the database is precisely because the app modifies itself. The database contains a dynamic report in which the properties are set during run-time in design mode. This causes problems when two or more people are in the database. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 6:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Hi Mark Another approach: If your app allows (does not write to or modify itself), split it in a frontend and backend and write-protect the frontend file (mark it as read only). This will cause zero change at the users' machines. /gustav > I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our > department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. > There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout > the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to > split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, > it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a > glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check > revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to > placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. > What do you think? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 3 08:11:36 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:11:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1924415838.20040503151136@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > This would be ideal, however the primary reason I need to split the database > is precisely because the app modifies itself. The database contains a > dynamic report in which the properties are set during run-time in design > mode. This causes problems when two or more people are in the database. Oh, indeed! /gustav > Another approach: > If your app allows (does not write to or modify itself), split it in a > frontend and backend and write-protect the frontend file (mark it as > read only). This will cause zero change at the users' machines. > /gustav >> I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >> department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >> There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >> the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >> split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >> it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >> glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >> revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >> placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. >> What do you think? From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 09:36:57 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:36:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <000001c4311c$16ca0480$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon May 3 09:50:59 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:50:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412740@bross.quiznos.net> RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Mon May 3 09:50:30 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:50:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 10:02:21 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:02:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 10:15:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:15:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: If possible, now would be the best time to comment...I'm starting as we "speak". Thanks for your help. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 10:17:28 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57E@TAPPEEXCH01> Well, I was thinking more like: 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: 3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version 4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. 5. Launch the new FE. Why are you following such a complicated plan? Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just logged on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it doesn't exist on their C: drive? I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 3 10:25:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:25:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B5A@main2.marlow.com> VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' limitation? I've never heard of that one! Several issues with the writer's understanding of what they are talking about. 'One big drawback in Access is that exporting data from forms and reports does not work very well. Only exports from Tables and Queries work all the time'. LOL If you want a report or form formatted the same way, then yes, it can get goofy. But the data is all there. I think MS would have a LOT of people yelling at them if you couldn't export data from a report! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 10:33:22 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:33:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c43123$f7b272a0$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Perfect, thanks :@) Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 30 April 2004 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Mark, Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's background tasks before continuing with code execution. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi all Using AXP in WinXP I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no field being set to yes. On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything is fine. I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. Any one got any pointers, I'd be real greatful. Thanks and have a good weekend (I'm off at last) Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 10:32:38 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:32:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: Like I said I'm open for suggestions...the complicated plan was conceived in order to accommodate ~100 users that have been using their existing desktop shortcut for a long, long, time. I was thinking that this approach, although initially a little cumbersome, is still relatively transparent to the user...in that they still get to click the shortcut to which they are accustomed. As for checking the version of a non-existing database? It seems one approach would be to test for FE existence and proceed, and trap for the error if it does not exist and begin FE update. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Well, I was thinking more like: 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: 3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version 4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. 5. Launch the new FE. Why are you following such a complicated plan? Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just logged on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it doesn't exist on their C: drive? I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 10:59:48 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:59:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? In-Reply-To: <7020809.1083596107715.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c43127$a9c23860$de1811d8@danwaters> Come on Chris - Let's hear the original version! ;-) I looked through the comparison, and they said that FM had something called a Creation Option that was their equivalent to an AutoNumber. It also seemed like to have additional tables you needed to create a separate file for each additional table. It sounds like you're saying that Access can't read data from FM. It that correct? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mackin, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 10:59:48 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:59:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? In-Reply-To: <16621332.1083598389798.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000101c43127$aa0e83a0$de1811d8@danwaters> Yup - Biased. I caught the 'Can't export from forms and reports' too. They did have several things wrong and should have done some fact checking with an experience Access developer. And they made things sound worse than they are. For example: A 2K or XP db can auto-compact when a user closes, but the auto-compact only happens to the last user! They did acknowledge that FM does not have the equivalent of a run-time version. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' limitation? I've never heard of that one! Several issues with the writer's understanding of what they are talking about. 'One big drawback in Access is that exporting data from forms and reports does not work very well. Only exports from Tables and Queries work all the time'. LOL If you want a report or form formatted the same way, then yes, it can get goofy. But the data is all there. I think MS would have a LOT of people yelling at them if you couldn't export data from a report! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 11:05:27 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:05:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: <15378224.1083597608385.JavaMail.root@sniper3.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000201c43128$73c66050$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, Take a look at Auto FE Updater on this web page. I've used this at two sites and it works very nicely. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/downloadsindex.htm Dan Waters ProMation Systems -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes If possible, now would be the best time to comment...I'm starting as we "speak". Thanks for your help. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 3 11:13:19 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:13:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4935318945.20040503181319@cactus.dk> Hi Mark I can't see how to circumvent creating a new shortcut which will (run a new batch file which will) launch a local copy of the FE. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet to obtain a reliable setup and - as you don't need to install Access - you can use a free installer like Inno Setup to achieve this: http://www.jrsoftware.org/ It may take a little extra effort, but you won't regret this. /gustav > Brett, Jim, Gustav, > This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be > "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more > office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency > issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons > as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best > practices. > So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > 1. Split the db. > 2. Move FE material to new FE db. > 3. Create a version table in new FE db. > 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: > 5. Logs in user. > 6. Verifies current version. > 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: > 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. > 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. > 10. Launches the new FE. > Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 11:20:21 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:20:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57F@TAPPEEXCH01> Mark, My batch file shortcuts look identical to any other app shortcut, so I can't see how it would be perceived as anything different to the end user. However, if you are unable/unwilling to replace the desktop shortcuts on the 100 machines remotely (login script, network desktop profile, admin c$ access...), then I can see how it would be advantageous to use the current app's server file as the initial launcher. At first, I didn't realize that you were planning on using the server db as the updater/launcher. In this case, my question about checking for a non-existing database doesn't apply. So, back to your solution. Following your requirements, here's what I would do: - Replace your network db with a simple launcher mdb. This mdb would contain a single table containing: - The workstation name (easily extracted using the GetComputerName API call) - The current version number for that workstation. - Include a CURRENTVERSION record in, containing the current version number of the app database. - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and copy files to the workstation if necessary (see below). - Launch the application. Here is some sample code I threw together (You would, of course, have to add the subs to copy the files and launch the application.): ----- 'Include in module declarations section Private Declare Function GetComputerName Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetComputerNameA" _ (ByVal sBuffer As String, lSize As Long) As Long 'Wrapper for GetComputerName API call Private Function ComputerName() As String Dim strBuffer As String * 256 Dim lngLen As Long lngLen = Len(strBuffer) GetComputerName strBuffer, lngLen ComputerName = Left$(strBuffer, lngLen) End Function 'Called from AutoExec Sub Startup() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim rs As DAO.Recordset Dim strCompName As String Dim strVersion As Variant Set db = CurrentDb() Set rs = db.OpenRecordset("tblVersion", dbOpenDynaset) rs.FindFirst "ComputerName='CURRENTVERSION'" strVersion= rs!Version strCompName = GetComputerName() rs.FindFirst "ComputerName='" & strCompName & "'" If rs.NoMatch Then Call CopyFEFiles rs.AddNew rs!ComputerName = strCompName rs!Version = strVersion rs.Update ElseIf rs!Version <> strVersion Then Call CopyFEFiles rs.Edit rs!Version = strVersion rs.Update End If rs.Close Call LaunchApp Set rs = Nothing Set db = Nothing End Sub ----- Is this something along the lines of what you were looking for? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Like I said I'm open for suggestions...the complicated plan was conceived in order to accommodate ~100 users that have been using their existing desktop shortcut for a long, long, time. I was thinking that this approach, although initially a little cumbersome, is still relatively transparent to the user...in that they still get to click the shortcut to which they are accustomed. As for checking the version of a non-existing database? It seems one approach would be to test for FE existence and proceed, and trap for the error if it does not exist and begin FE update. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Well, I was thinking more like: 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: 3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version 4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. 5. Launch the new FE. Why are you following such a complicated plan? Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just logged on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it doesn't exist on their C: drive? I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon May 3 11:21:36 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:21:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412743@bross.quiznos.net> Access can read info from FMP, but you MUST have FileMaker Pro open and the specific File (table) that you are trying to read open for the ODBC connection to work. They have: -No queries, but calculated fields in tables -A UNIQUE property for fields that does not actually force things to be unique. It adds incermentally to a field, but if you enter a value that already exists it won't raise an error I really forget all the details since it's been a while, but I remember there were about 4 or 5 very basic things about it that flew right in the face of the relational datbase model. Luckily i was working ona small system that only had 1 primary table with de-nnormalized data and a few lookup tables, anything more than that would've been a nightmare. In it's favor it does have cool graphics for forms, but that's about the only good thing I can say about it. And of course, take this with many grains of salt as I am totally biased against it. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Come on Chris - Let's hear the original version! ;-) I looked through the comparison, and they said that FM had something called a Creation Option that was their equivalent to an AutoNumber. It also seemed like to have additional tables you needed to create a separate file for each additional table. It sounds like you're saying that Access can't read data from FM. It that correct? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mackin, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 3 11:29:26 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:29:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >Well, I was thinking more like: > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. >5. Launch the new FE. > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just >logged >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best >practices. > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. >3. Create a version table in new FE db. >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: >5. Logs in user. >6. Verifies current version. >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. >10. Launches the new FE. > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Mark, >I do that for all of my distributed apps. >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of >course, >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you >elaborate? > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > >Well, here it is! >---------- >@echo off >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release >set verfile=123.ver > >rem ** Create directory if necessary >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app >mkdir c:\myappdir > >:app >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > >:end >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime >start Launcher >---------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM >To: '[AccessD]' >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up >times. >What do you think? > > > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon May 3 11:44:42 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:44:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412745@bross.quiznos.net> I remember a good one, the "ID" field in FileMaker Pro was an "AutoNumber" and it held data like GH125, GH126, etc.. The data type in FileMaker Pro was set to a number, but FileMaker Pro doesn't take data types literally. The ODBC connection saw a numerc field and brought in the numeric portion 125, 126 etc. Needless to say this was a real PITA when the ID fields didn't come over correctly (setting the ODBC property to treat all data types as Text did solve this) Upon furhter investigation, data types are virtually meaningless in FMP, "FileMaker Pro has No Data Integrity" is accepted in Date fields, Number fields and text fields (of course their acceptance depends on how many characters you limit the field to, you can have a 255 character Date). You can set up varying degrees on enforcing the data types, but even with the strictest I was able to write data into the system without causing errors. This applies both to "Unique" values and value of the incorrect data type. If I can do anything else to further rant about the poor quality of Filemaker Pro, please let me know. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Access can read info from FMP, but you MUST have FileMaker Pro open and the specific File (table) that you are trying to read open for the ODBC connection to work. They have: -No queries, but calculated fields in tables -A UNIQUE property for fields that does not actually force things to be unique. It adds incermentally to a field, but if you enter a value that already exists it won't raise an error I really forget all the details since it's been a while, but I remember there were about 4 or 5 very basic things about it that flew right in the face of the relational datbase model. Luckily i was working ona small system that only had 1 primary table with de-nnormalized data and a few lookup tables, anything more than that would've been a nightmare. In it's favor it does have cool graphics for forms, but that's about the only good thing I can say about it. And of course, take this with many grains of salt as I am totally biased against it. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Come on Chris - Let's hear the original version! ;-) I looked through the comparison, and they said that FM had something called a Creation Option that was their equivalent to an AutoNumber. It also seemed like to have additional tables you needed to create a separate file for each additional table. It sounds like you're saying that Access can't read data from FM. It that correct? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mackin, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:48:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:48:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: It's just about as far offbase as it can get, and we all jumped on it the last time this link was posted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Tesiny, Ed [mailto:EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 3 11:49:04 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:49:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: Drew: That's where the 2k/4k data pages and record locking by page/record come from. Try creating 9 text fields of 255 characters in a table record. Access 97 will puke it out immediately. I'm not certain how unicode compression fits in with newer versions but I assume it is at the transfer, not storage stage. Of course we have memo fields... Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' >limitation? I've never heard of that one! >... >... >Drew > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:50:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:50:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: Oh, yes, they claim it's relational. If FileMaker is relational, pigs have wings, and always have had! It is still the database of choice for Macs, but then we all know how primitive Mac users are, right? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:53:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:53:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: Avoid FileMaker at all costs. One of the things that users and so-called "developers" like is that it will store multiple values in a field, completely violating normalization. Of course, that makes it fairly useless for data analysis, so the data gets dumped to Access, where it has to be seriously massaged before you can really do anything with it. Trust me, you don't want to do that! I finally managed to wean a former employer off FileMaker (they had started with Macs), but I forever heard "FileMaker would let us do that", which made me grit my teeth and try not to reach for the nearest blunt object. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:57:43 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:57:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating from A2K to A2002 Message-ID: You shouldn't have any problems at all. The 2000 file format is the default in 2002. I've never had a problem opening and working on 2000 databases in 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Migrating from A2K to A2002 Hi group, I need to migrate an Access 2000 database using Ado, dao, saved queries, classes, api calls,etc to Access 2002. can anybody ginve me some URL's/tips on where to look for changed stuff, pittfalls, etc. tia Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 12:00:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:00:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access Message-ID: Martin, Linking to a 97 database is going to cause a slowdown, regardless of the network it's running on. I believe unicode is the culprit, but I don't recall details. I just know from experience that I do NOT link 2000 or 2002 databases to 97 except with a gun at my head! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access Gustav Main database is Access 2000. On start up it links into multiple Access 97 databases!. WIll try that out and see how it goes. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access > Hi Martin > > > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very > > slow. Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in > > Novell whcih would > > improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters > > which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. > > Sadly, I don't think we ever heard from Seth what he came up with ... > > So, first, ask your NetWare admin to check these settings: > > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS = 200000 > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS PER CONNECTION = 100000 > > For newer NetWare version (>=5?) they should be default. > If not, they can simply be typed in (as shown) at the console as they > are dynamic. If it works they should be inserted in the autoexec.ncf > file. > > Second, check that your Novell clients are up to date. > > Also, look up the thread > > Excel 2000 to Access 2000 link slow on Novell network > > from July 2002. It may not represent your situation but has some > hints. > > If you are running Access 97 data (Jet 3.5) on Access 2000 that may be > an issue of its own. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 3 12:03:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:03:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B5E@main2.marlow.com> Hmmm, go figure. Never ran into that problem before, but now that you mention it, I do remember that limitation. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Drew: That's where the 2k/4k data pages and record locking by page/record come from. Try creating 9 text fields of 255 characters in a table record. Access 97 will puke it out immediately. I'm not certain how unicode compression fits in with newer versions but I assume it is at the transfer, not storage stage. Of course we have memo fields... Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' >limitation? I've never heard of that one! >... >... >Drew > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 3 12:18:37 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:18:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting References: <4095F377.17925.116FCE@localhost> Message-ID: <00e901c43132$abe369b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Very low-tech. Very effective. No APIs (woo-hoo!) Thank you. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of > tricks you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which > matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to > the GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in > use. > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 12:41:14 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:41:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: Upon further reflection...what are the consequences of my sequence of events? By that, I mean, how many processes will I have running concurrently? It seems, at first glance, that I'll have the launcher app, a .bat file, AND the local front end open all at once until they close the local front end. This can't be right...at least I hope it's not. How do I get around this? Can the launcher app handle the verification, updating, and launching of the FE and then still close? J?rgen, Brett, >> Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a Database << -J?rgen Vs. >> - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and copy files to the workstation if necessary (see below). << -Brett I think I'll try the filename method. Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >Well, I was thinking more like: > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. >5. Launch the new FE. > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just >logged >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best >practices. > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. >3. Create a version table in new FE db. >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: >5. Logs in user. >6. Verifies current version. >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. >10. Launches the new FE. > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Mark, >I do that for all of my distributed apps. >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of >course, >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you >elaborate? > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > >Well, here it is! >---------- >@echo off >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release >set verfile=123.ver > >rem ** Create directory if necessary >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app >mkdir c:\myappdir > >:app >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > >:end >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime >start Launcher >---------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM >To: '[AccessD]' >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up >times. >What do you think? > > > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon May 3 12:42:26 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:42:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B5E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, That can happen on an update as well. The error is "Record too large". Of course there is a lot that goes into that. Memo and OLE fields only take 14 bytes or 16 bytes in the fixed portion of the record (version dependent) for a pointer to the chain, unless they are <30 bytes in size, then their stored with the record. There's also 1 byte overhead for each field and 7 bytes for the record. For A2000 and up (JET 4.0) the page size was increased to 4096 bytes, but Unicode takes 2 bytes, so it's virtually the same. Not too often you run into it, but when you do, there is no getting around it except to split the table. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hmmm, go figure. Never ran into that problem before, but now that you mention it, I do remember that limitation. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Drew: That's where the 2k/4k data pages and record locking by page/record come from. Try creating 9 text fields of 255 characters in a table record. Access 97 will puke it out immediately. I'm not certain how unicode compression fits in with newer versions but I assume it is at the transfer, not storage stage. Of course we have memo fields... Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' >limitation? I've never heard of that one! >... >... >Drew > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 3 12:49:46 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 17:49:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer Message-ID: Not sure if it will get you as close as you need...but couldn't you record the time before you open the query...and record the time after...and then take the difference."START" and "FINISH" were text boxes on the form I lauched the query from. Dim stDocName As String stDocName = "Query1" Me!start = Now() DoCmd.OpenQuery stDocName, acNormal, acEdit Me!finish = Now() >From: "William Hindman" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Timer >Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 06:57:29 -0400 > >...take a look at http://www.CleanDataSystems.com > >William Hindman >"The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Martin Reid" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:18 AM >Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer > > > > I want to test the time taken to > > > > Open a form - get the load time > > > > Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or >a > > file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but >that > > is covered. > > > > > > Would anyone have a function that measures such things? > > > > Martin > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 13:06:56 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:06:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE580@TAPPEEXCH01> Mark, First of all, I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file. All of the file copy operations are already built into VBA, and you can write a quick 'n' dirty routine to do it from there. J?rgen's statement doesn't apply in this case, since you already stated that you want to use the mdb file as the launcher. In this case, the database is already open. The difference between checking for a file and pulling a record from an update table is of no consequence to the app's performance. I am still assuming that you don't want to change the user's workstation paths, which is why I gave you sample code to support this. If changing their shortcuts is an option, you could use my batch file approach. Quick, simple, easy to maintain, updates are as simple as changing the version number in the batch file. I really don't want to start a turf war about the "best" way to do this. To each their own. It just seems that you are confused as to what you are trying to accomplish, and I'm just trying to nail down the best solution that will suit your needs. Again, to recap what I had in mind in my previous message: - User starts launcher, located at your existing server location. - Launcher checks workstation record in it's table to determine if it exists/is up to date. - If necessary, Launcher copies the newest FE files to workstation, and logs version number in its own table. - Launcher shells out to launch FE mdb file stored on workstation, and closes itself e.g.: Shell "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE c:\myappdir\myapp.mdb" Application.Quit This results in ONE application open at a time (except for split second between the Shell statement and the Application.Quit statement). -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Upon further reflection...what are the consequences of my sequence of events? By that, I mean, how many processes will I have running concurrently? It seems, at first glance, that I'll have the launcher app, a .bat file, AND the local front end open all at once until they close the local front end. This can't be right...at least I hope it's not. How do I get around this? Can the launcher app handle the verification, updating, and launching of the FE and then still close? J?rgen, Brett, >> Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a Database << -J?rgen Vs. >> - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and copy files to the workstation if necessary (see below). << -Brett I think I'll try the filename method. Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >Well, I was thinking more like: > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. >5. Launch the new FE. > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just >logged >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best >practices. > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. >3. Create a version table in new FE db. >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: >5. Logs in user. >6. Verifies current version. >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. >10. Launches the new FE. > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Mark, >I do that for all of my distributed apps. >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of >course, >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you >elaborate? > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > >Well, here it is! >---------- >@echo off >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release >set verfile=123.ver > >rem ** Create directory if necessary >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app >mkdir c:\myappdir > >:app >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > >:end >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime >start Launcher >---------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM >To: '[AccessD]' >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up >times. >What do you think? > > > >Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 3 14:29:51 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 13:29:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: A launcher can do it all very well. Including making folders, verifying user name and getting itself out of the way. It also gives you access to api functions, for example, I used a copyfile function that allows you to overwrite the destination if it exists. I use a run code macro and have everything in a single tiny module. It does mean that there will momentarily be two access application processes open concurrently for each user. I use the ShellExecute api call to launch the file after a successful copy and when it succeeds, the next line of code is: Application.Quit and the launcher disappears. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" > >Upon further reflection...what are the consequences of my sequence of >events? By that, I mean, how many processes will I have running >concurrently? It seems, at first glance, that I'll have the launcher app, >a >.bat file, AND the local front end open all at once until they close the >local front end. This can't be right...at least I hope it's not. How do I >get around this? > >Can the launcher app handle the verification, updating, and launching of >the >FE and then still close? > > >J?rgen, Brett, > > >> Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a >Database << -J?rgen > >Vs. > > >> - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and >copy >files to the workstation if necessary (see below). << -Brett > > >I think I'll try the filename method. > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions >that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including >batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the >one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to >run > >each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal >Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the >same > >FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at >to > >a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the >file > >path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named >"UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with >the > >master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the >property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over >the new version and launched it. > >Deployment required a few simple steps: > >1. Make changes to a development file; >2. Update the version property of that file; >3. Set the file suffix; >4. Copy the file to the deployment location; >5. Delete the previous file. > >This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a >file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file >to > >check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the >same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to >check the UserVersion property I created. > >I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API >call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to >9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version >number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version >number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a >user > >version property rather than a file name was because the users might change >the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE >to > >laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. >Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a >database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it >to do that only. > >BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and >copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically >accomodated. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > >Well, I was thinking more like: > > > >1. Split the db. > >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > > > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: > >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version > >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. > >5. Launch the new FE. > > > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? > >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just > >logged > >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? > >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their > >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if >it > >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > > > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't > >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > > > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > > > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be > >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more > >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real >concurrency > >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry >persons > >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding >best > >practices. > > > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > > > >1. Split the db. > >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >3. Create a version table in new FE db. > >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > > > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: > >5. Logs in user. > >6. Verifies current version. > >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: > >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. > >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. > >10. Launches the new FE. > > > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > > > > >Mark > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > > > > >Mark, > >I do that for all of my distributed apps. > >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of > >course, > >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) > >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you > >elaborate? > > > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. > >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on >their > >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. > >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a > >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. > >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to > >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch > >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > > > >Well, here it is! > >---------- > >@echo off > >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release > >set verfile=123.ver > > > >rem ** Create directory if necessary > >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app > >mkdir c:\myappdir > > > >:app > >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer >version > >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end > >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... > >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > > > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one > >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver > >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > > > >:end > >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime > >start Launcher > >---------- > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM > >To: '[AccessD]' > >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > > > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our > >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. > >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout > >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need >to > >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing >shortcut, > >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a > >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently >check > >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to > >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up > >times. > >What do you think? > > > > > > > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 3 14:11:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:11:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40969971.5050404@shaw.ca> Have you looked at this Access Addin software method for forms language on fly translation Trial version available From Moscow Access User Group. http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Downloads/Trans/Trans.asp Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the >fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design >view. > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM >Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese > > >Dear List: > >I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and >'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to >show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Mon May 3 15:04:24 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:04:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> No... >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" The short for months can be different in other languages and your code will fail if a local language windows is used. Please find code example which should put you on the road. The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API guide = good. Erwin Option Compare Database Private Type SYSTEMTIME wYear As Integer wMonth As Integer wDayOfWeek As Integer wDay As Integer wHour As Integer wMinute As Integer wSecond As Integer wMilliseconds As Integer End Type Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal cchDate As Long) As Long Public Sub testtt() 'KPD-Team 2000 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME With ST .wDay = 31 .wMonth = 8 .wYear = 2000 End With Buffer = String(255, 0) GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) MsgBox Buffer End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Dear list: > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks you can use. One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 15:09:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:09:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PrtDevMode PrinterName Message-ID: We use API calls in our apps to set paper size for our reports at runtime based on user selections in a form. Suddenly, we have a use with a Looong printer device name, which seems to choke the 32 character buffer allocated to the name. Does anyone know which elements can be tweaked to get back a printer name longer than 32 characters? Charlotte Foust From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 15:07:10 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:07:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: How do I handle the situation where someone opens the server copy of the FE directly? Brett, There is no doubt that I am confused;) But here goes... >> I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file << I agree, I'm re-working it accordingly. >> J?rgen's statement doesn't apply << -J?rgen...please correct me if I'm wrong, but I disagree. For example...the launcher app contains a version record "2", and the filename of the local FE is "DbName_FE_1.mdb". Since Instr(strFileName, strVersion) = 0, I update the FE. If I use this method I see no reason to store a table of workstations and the latest installed FE...or am I missing something? >> recap << Except for the version checking...exactly. >> ONE application open at a time << Excellent...thank you for clarifying this. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, First of all, I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file. All of the file copy operations are already built into VBA, and you can write a quick 'n' dirty routine to do it from there. J?rgen's statement doesn't apply in this case, since you already stated that you want to use the mdb file as the launcher. In this case, the database is already open. The difference between checking for a file and pulling a record from an update table is of no consequence to the app's performance. I am still assuming that you don't want to change the user's workstation paths, which is why I gave you sample code to support this. If changing their shortcuts is an option, you could use my batch file approach. Quick, simple, easy to maintain, updates are as simple as changing the version number in the batch file. I really don't want to start a turf war about the "best" way to do this. To each their own. It just seems that you are confused as to what you are trying to accomplish, and I'm just trying to nail down the best solution that will suit your needs. Again, to recap what I had in mind in my previous message: - User starts launcher, located at your existing server location. - Launcher checks workstation record in it's table to determine if it exists/is up to date. - If necessary, Launcher copies the newest FE files to workstation, and logs version number in its own table. - Launcher shells out to launch FE mdb file stored on workstation, and closes itself e.g.: Shell "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE c:\myappdir\myapp.mdb" Application.Quit This results in ONE application open at a time (except for split second between the Shell statement and the Application.Quit statement). From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 3 15:15:27 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:15:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40969971.5050404@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <015e01c4314b$6046d6e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Thanks for the link. Looks like I should check it out. Do you know if you have to supply your own translation or the program does that for you? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] More Chinese > Have you looked at this Access Addin software method for forms language > on fly translation > Trial version available > From Moscow Access User Group. > http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Downloads/Trans/Trans.asp > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the > >fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design > >view. > > > >Rocky > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM > >Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese > > > > > >Dear List: > > > >I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and > >'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to > >show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Mon May 3 15:20:39 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:20:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D034C69@mailbe01> Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 3 15:20:59 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 13:20:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40969971.5050404@shaw.ca> <015e01c4314b$6046d6e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <4096A9AB.3070104@shaw.ca> You do your own. If it did automatic translations you would probably have to add a couple of zeros to price. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >Thanks for the link. Looks like I should check it out. Do you know if you >have to supply your own translation or the program does that for you? > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:11 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] More Chinese > > > > >>Have you looked at this Access Addin software method for forms language >>on fly translation >>Trial version available >> From Moscow Access User Group. >>http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Downloads/Trans/Trans.asp >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the >>>fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design >>>view. >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >>>To: >>>Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM >>>Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese >>> >>> >>>Dear List: >>> >>>I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and >>>'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to >>>show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. >>> >>>MTIA >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 16:07:09 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:07:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE58C@TAPPEEXCH01> If you choose to determine their current app version by checking for the existence of a file (e.g. DbName_FE_1.mdb), then yes, you wouldn't need to keep track of updates in a table in the launcher mdb. That way or my way, doesn't really matter, they'll both do the job just fine. Here's why I said that J?rgen's statement about performance didn't apply: - He was comparing checking for a file's existence, vs. opening a copy of the FE mdb to check a database version property. - I was comparing checking for a file's existence vs. retrieving a record from a table. Performance wise, you are looking at no tangible difference if you lookup the value from a table instead of looking for a file on their hard drive. (unless you get all bent out of shape about performance differences of < .01 sec). IMHO, the only valid consideration is choosing the solution that is the easiest to implement, maintain and deploy. I'll leave it to you to decide what works best for you. Off the top of my head, I would guess that the easiest way to keep someone from directly opening a FE on the server would be to check the CurrentProject.Path property at startup (AutoExec). If it is anything other than your app directory, kick them out. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes How do I handle the situation where someone opens the server copy of the FE directly? Brett, There is no doubt that I am confused;) But here goes... >> I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file << I agree, I'm re-working it accordingly. >> J?rgen's statement doesn't apply << -J?rgen...please correct me if I'm wrong, but I disagree. For example...the launcher app contains a version record "2", and the filename of the local FE is "DbName_FE_1.mdb". Since Instr(strFileName, strVersion) = 0, I update the FE. If I use this method I see no reason to store a table of workstations and the latest installed FE...or am I missing something? >> recap << Except for the version checking...exactly. >> ONE application open at a time << Excellent...thank you for clarifying this. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, First of all, I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file. All of the file copy operations are already built into VBA, and you can write a quick 'n' dirty routine to do it from there. J?rgen's statement doesn't apply in this case, since you already stated that you want to use the mdb file as the launcher. In this case, the database is already open. The difference between checking for a file and pulling a record from an update table is of no consequence to the app's performance. I am still assuming that you don't want to change the user's workstation paths, which is why I gave you sample code to support this. If changing their shortcuts is an option, you could use my batch file approach. Quick, simple, easy to maintain, updates are as simple as changing the version number in the batch file. I really don't want to start a turf war about the "best" way to do this. To each their own. It just seems that you are confused as to what you are trying to accomplish, and I'm just trying to nail down the best solution that will suit your needs. Again, to recap what I had in mind in my previous message: - User starts launcher, located at your existing server location. - Launcher checks workstation record in it's table to determine if it exists/is up to date. - If necessary, Launcher copies the newest FE files to workstation, and logs version number in its own table. - Launcher shells out to launch FE mdb file stored on workstation, and closes itself e.g.: Shell "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE c:\myappdir\myapp.mdb" Application.Quit This results in ONE application open at a time (except for split second between the Shell statement and the Application.Quit statement). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 3 16:33:20 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:33:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates In-Reply-To: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D034C69@mailbe01> Message-ID: <000001c43156$4d8f9360$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hi Nanette Not sure if it's the same in the later versions but in A97 you can just create a form called Normal within your MDB. Set the properties of the textbox, label etc in the Toolbar on this form, save it and any new form will adopt those properties. HTH -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gould, Nanette > Sent: 03 May 2004 21:21 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates > > > Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that > Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with > one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do > this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that > didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup > Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. > If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired > of making the exact same changes to every new form and report > I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. > > > > Nanette Gould > > + > > > > Department of Finance > > Crystal Terrace > > 3319 West End Ave. > > Suite 700 > > ? > > (w) 615.322.3540 > > (fax) 615.343.4052 > > : > > nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu > > The information transmitted with any attachments is intended > solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed > and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If > you have received this email in error, please contact the > sender and delete the material from your system. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 16:47:14 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates In-Reply-To: <14417734.1083615854199.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000201c43158$32a0d260$de1811d8@danwaters> Nanette, You could make a library database that includes a template form and template report that each have their settings changed the way you want. You could also have different templates for different uses. This library database could also contain a standard module with any module procedures you repeatedly use, and queries, tables, macros, or pages as well. I don't believe that Access has a 'normal' template for forms and reports, in a way that's similar to what Word has. HTH, Dan Waters ProMation Systems -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gould, Nanette Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:21 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System. mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Mon May 3 16:58:03 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:58:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook location Message-ID: <009d01c43159$c2f36d40$6701a8c0@joe> Does anyone the call to return the path where Outlook is located? Joe O'Connell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 3 17:50:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 08:50:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <4097594B.26752.2A30433@localhost> On 3 May 2004 at 22:04, Erwin Craps - IT Helps wrote: > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. I realise it won't work for everyone, but it would work for the original correspondent for his specific request. That's why I called it "one simple way" and said the API was more versatile. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon May 3 19:16:12 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:16:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Message-ID: <74840-2200452401612895@christopherhawkins.com> I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. Does anyone know? -Christiopher- From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:28:55 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:28:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <74840-2200452401612895@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <20040504002854.ZTCD1702.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> CREATE TABLE table ADD COLUMN colname datatype where datatype is "increment" or "counter" ...I think anyway. Susan H. I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. Does anyone know? -Christiopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:31:09 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:31:09 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Message-ID: <20040504003108.ZTXR1702.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT CREAT TABLE Table (Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. Susan H. CREATE TABLE table ADD COLUMN colname datatype where datatype is "increment" or "counter" ...I think anyway. Susan H. I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. Does anyone know? -Christiopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 3 19:32:31 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:32:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? References: <74840-2200452401612895@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <00a501c4316f$49966360$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Chris Just went thorough this last week I should be simple but it aint. Took me days to get this sorted. First you create a Number field then you go back and give it the AutoIncrement property See code below - it does it all Hope this helps Darren ============================================================= Private Sub cmdCreateAutoNumber_Click() 'Assume you already have a table named tblStudents. 'Assume the New autonumber field is to be called StudentID 'This Function actually creates firstly the StudentID field as Number '(As a long Int actually) Then changes the field's property to AutoIncrement Call fCreateAutoNumberField("tblStudents", "StudentID") End sub Function fCreateAutoNumberField( _ ByVal strTableName As String, _ ByVal strFieldName As String) _ As Boolean ' ' Creates an Autonumber field with name=strFieldName ' in table strTableName. ' Accepts ' strTableName: Name of table in which to create the field ' strFieldName: Name of the new field ' Returns True on success, false otherwise ' On Error GoTo ErrHandler Dim db As DAO.Database Dim fld As DAO.Field Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = Application.CurrentDb Set tdf = db.TableDefs(strTableName) ' First create a field with datatype = Long Integer Set fld = tdf.CreateField(strFieldName, dbLong) With fld ' Appending dbAutoIncrField to Attributes ' tells Jet that it's an Autonumber field .Attributes = .Attributes Or dbAutoIncrField End With With tdf.Fields .Append fld .Refresh End With fCreateAutoNumberField = True ExitHere: Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing Exit Function ErrHandler: fCreateAutoNumberField = False With Err MsgBox "Error " & .Number & vbCrLf & .Description, _ vbOKOnly Or vbCritical, "CreateAutonumberField" End With Resume ExitHere End Function From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon May 3 19:45:11 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:45:11 -0600 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Message-ID: <153450-2200452404511605@christopherhawkins.com> Awesome! I was trying INCREMENT and AUTONUMBER and getting nowhere. Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unab;e to find it in the A2K3 Help files. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:31:09 -0400 >Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT > >CREAT TABLE Table >(Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) > >Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. > >Susan H. > >CREATE TABLE table >ADD COLUMN colname datatype > >where datatype is "increment" or "counter" > >...I think anyway. > >Susan H. > >I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end >database since >he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. > >I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all >that, >but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to >script that. > >Does anyone know? > >-Christiopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:50:48 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:50:48 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <153450-2200452404511605@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <20040504005047.GTLS1782.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> In the book Martin and I wrote. :) I can't possibly remember them all -- but it's a great SQL reference, if I say so myself. :) Martin may chime in here, but I think "increment" is the SQL Server version. Susan H. Awesome! I was trying INCREMENT and AUTONUMBER and getting nowhere. Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unab;e to find it in the A2K3 Help files. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:51:15 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:51:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <00a501c4316f$49966360$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <20040504005114.GTQX1782.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Are you sure you had to create the Number field first? I've never had to. Susan H. Hi Chris Just went thorough this last week I should be simple but it aint. Took me days to get this sorted. First you create a Number field then you go back and give it the AutoIncrement property See code below - it does it all Hope this helps Darren ============================================================= Private Sub cmdCreateAutoNumber_Click() 'Assume you already have a table named tblStudents. 'Assume the New autonumber field is to be called StudentID 'This Function actually creates firstly the StudentID field as Number '(As a long Int actually) Then changes the field's property to AutoIncrement Call fCreateAutoNumberField("tblStudents", "StudentID") End sub Function fCreateAutoNumberField( _ ByVal strTableName As String, _ ByVal strFieldName As String) _ As Boolean ' ' Creates an Autonumber field with name=strFieldName ' in table strTableName. ' Accepts ' strTableName: Name of table in which to create the field ' strFieldName: Name of the new field ' Returns True on success, false otherwise ' On Error GoTo ErrHandler Dim db As DAO.Database Dim fld As DAO.Field Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = Application.CurrentDb Set tdf = db.TableDefs(strTableName) ' First create a field with datatype = Long Integer Set fld = tdf.CreateField(strFieldName, dbLong) With fld ' Appending dbAutoIncrField to Attributes ' tells Jet that it's an Autonumber field .Attributes = .Attributes Or dbAutoIncrField End With With tdf.Fields .Append fld .Refresh End With fCreateAutoNumberField = True ExitHere: Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing Exit Function ErrHandler: fCreateAutoNumberField = False With Err MsgBox "Error " & .Number & vbCrLf & .Description, _ vbOKOnly Or vbCritical, "CreateAutonumberField" End With Resume ExitHere End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 3 19:59:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:59:49 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <153450-2200452404511605@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: >Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unable to find it in the A2K3 Help files. They don't call it NOT Help for nothing! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Awesome! I was trying INCREMENT and AUTONUMBER and getting nowhere. Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unab;e to find it in the A2K3 Help files. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:31:09 -0400 >Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT > >CREAT TABLE Table >(Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) > >Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. > >Susan H. > >CREATE TABLE table >ADD COLUMN colname datatype > >where datatype is "increment" or "counter" > >...I think anyway. > >Susan H. > >I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end >database since >he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. > >I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all >that, >but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to >script that. > >Does anyone know? > >-Christiopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 20:20:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:20:21 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040504012022.BCWT1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hey John, if it weren't for the Help files, I might not have a job. ;) Susan H. >Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unable to find it in the A2K3 >Help files. They don't call it NOT Help for nothing! ;-) From glen_mcwilliams at msn.com Mon May 3 23:35:53 2004 From: glen_mcwilliams at msn.com (Glen McWilliams) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 21:35:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer Message-ID: John Colby had such a timer in his framework. >From: "Martin Reid" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer >Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:18:55 +0100 > >I want to test the time taken to > >Open a form - get the load time > >Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a >file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that >is covered. > > >Would anyone have a function that measures such things? > >Martin > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 02:15:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 00:15:16 -0700 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? References: <20040504003108.ZTXR1702.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <40974304.7010302@shaw.ca> I seem to remember there may be a problem setting "allow zero length property" on field properties using SQL methods But there is some odd workaround. Susan Harkins wrote: >Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT > >CREAT TABLE Table >(Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) > >Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. > >Susan H. > >CREATE TABLE table >ADD COLUMN colname datatype > >where datatype is "increment" or "counter" > >...I think anyway. > >Susan H. > >I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since >he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. > >I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, >but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. > >Does anyone know? > >-Christiopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 02:22:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:22:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Tue May 4 03:58:48 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:58:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates References: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D034C69@mailbe01> Message-ID: <002401c431b6$0539cee0$3f412d3e@jester> Hi Nanette, in A2k in the options you can 'tell' acces which form to use as a template. I do not know if that is the same for XP and 2003. I am not sure for reports either, and i do not have access running on this PC so i cannot check it for you. Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gould, Nanette" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue May 4 04:27:48 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 05:27:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <409729D4.111.174488@localhost> On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi all > > Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". > > Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? > Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? > > > > Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) > I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least CLng. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Only the mediocre are at their best all the time. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue May 4 08:16:01 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:16:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates In-Reply-To: <31378272.1083661954555.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000a01c431d9$f2de84b0$de1811d8@danwaters> I just looked. On the Forms/Reports tabs in options (AXP), there are two fields to identify the name of a Form template and the name of a Report template. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bert-Jan Brinkhuis Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Hi Nanette, in A2k in the options you can 'tell' acces which form to use as a template. I do not know if that is the same for XP and 2003. I am not sure for reports either, and i do not have access running on this PC so i cannot check it for you. Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gould, Nanette" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Tue May 4 08:21:45 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:21:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D15086C@mailbe01> This solution works only for whatever database you're working in, not for all databases which is the solution I'm looking for. Thanks to everyone who offered help, I think I'll try your suggestion of a database with a library of form and report templates and I can just import them into whatever database I'm working in and change the default templates for that database. I wish there was a way to change it so that all databases would use it, but I guess I'm out of luck. Thanks, Nanette -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com ] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates I just looked. On the Forms/Reports tabs in options (AXP), there are two fields to identify the name of a Form template and the name of a Report template. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bert-Jan Brinkhuis Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Hi Nanette, in A2k in the options you can 'tell' acces which form to use as a template. I do not know if that is the same for XP and 2003. I am not sure for reports either, and i do not have access running on this PC so i cannot check it for you. Bert-Jan From adtp at touchtelindia.net Tue May 4 09:11:55 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:41:55 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] How to create a 2 year multimonth report References: <01B619CB8F6C8C478EDAC39191AEC51EE73612@DOESEFPEML02.EUS.FLDOE.INT> Message-ID: <008801c431e1$d2f7e300$4d1865cb@winxp> Susan, I have not seen any reply to your post so far. If the problem is yet to be resolved, the following course of action is suggested - Let Q_Cat be the source query (or table) having the following columns - MonthYear (Text) - showing 'Jan 03' etc Item (Text) - Typical entries 'Room' & 'Meals' Booked (Number) - This field will have the value of Rooms or Meals booked. Based upon the above, create a crosstab query. In design view of this query, specify as follows - MonthYear - Group By - Column Heading Item - Group By - Row Heading Booked - Sum - Value In properties dialog box of this query, against Column Headings, enter the desired sequence of columns (e.g. "Jan 03", "Jan 04", "Feb 03", "Feb 04" and so on). This will get you the required output. The SQL for this query will look like - TRANSFORM Sum(Q_Cat.Booked) AS SumOfBooked SELECT Q_Cat.Item FROM Q_Cat GROUP BY Q_Cat.Item PIVOT Q_Cat.MonthYear In ("Jan 03","Jan 04","Feb 03","Feb 04","Mar 03","Mar 04"); Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Klos, Susan To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 17:08 Subject: [AccessD] How to create a 2 year multimonth report I have to create a summary report which has to include this year's data and last year's data. It is to look something like this: Item Jan 04 Jan 03 Feb 04 Feb 03 Mar 04 Mar 03 Meals 200 198 210 209 185 190 Rooms 30 28 34 34 29 31 I can do the summary for 04 and 03 but I can't figure out how to get the months together like above. Susan Klos Senior Database Analyst Evaluation and Reporting Florida Department of Education 850-245-0708 sc 205-0708 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 4 09:28:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:28:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B67@main2.marlow.com> Ya, no kidding. The writer of that may think that the dreaded 'overflow' error may be bad, wait until they get goofy numbers from floating point calculations! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 4 09:31:50 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:31:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Erwin: What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and dd/mm/yy? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. > For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API > guide = good. > > Erwin > > > Option Compare Database > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias > "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As > SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal > cchDate As Long) As Long > Public Sub testtt() > 'KPD-Team 2000 > 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ > 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net > Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME > With ST > .wDay = 31 > .wMonth = 8 > .wYear = 2000 > End With > Buffer = String(255, 0) > GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) > Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) > MsgBox Buffer > End Sub > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' > date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks > you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the > GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 09:44:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:44:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <19430211101.20040504164422@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky At least four variants here: dd-mm-yy(yy) and (yy)yy-mm-dd Also: d-m-yyyy. /gustav > What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and > dd/mm/yy? From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 4 09:52:30 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:52:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: yyyy/mm/dd Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Erwin: What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and dd/mm/yy? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. > For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API > guide = good. > > Erwin > > > Option Compare Database > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias > "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As > SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal > cchDate As Long) As Long > Public Sub testtt() > 'KPD-Team 2000 > 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ > 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net > Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME > With ST > .wDay = 31 > .wMonth = 8 > .wYear = 2000 > End With > Buffer = String(255, 0) > GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) > Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) > MsgBox Buffer > End Sub > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' > date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks > you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the > GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 10:26:13 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:26:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: In some language settings, the delimiter is either a period rather than a hyphen or slash. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Hi Rocky At least four variants here: dd-mm-yy(yy) and (yy)yy-mm-dd Also: d-m-yyyy. /gustav > What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy > and dd/mm/yy? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 10:31:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:31:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 10:47:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:47:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3833999799.20040504174731@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? /gustav > Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess > they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people > simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem > to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or > subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi all > Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". > Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why > not let a programmer proofread such tips? > > Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) > If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, > you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl > instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers > up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that > large." However, later on down the line, it might. > Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with > hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the > dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different > from using CInt. The syntax is: > CDBl(numericstring) > CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up > to 1.7976931348623158E+308. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 11:04:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:04:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Which just goes to show that it is important to understand what datatypes are for, how they work with the various math and logical operations, and what the specific variable is intended to do. If a float was the only datatype ever needed, it would be the only one available! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 4 11:13:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:13:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B6E@main2.marlow.com> Wow, a topic we can all agree on! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Which just goes to show that it is important to understand what datatypes are for, how they work with the various math and logical operations, and what the specific variable is intended to do. If a float was the only datatype ever needed, it would be the only one available! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 4 11:48:51 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:48:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD842@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I'm aware of the folowing. Seperators / - . (dot is germany at my knowledge) Order dd mm yy mm dd yy Iso order yyyy mm dd My comment was intended on the alfa month name. I know a ticket sales application (In MS Access) used in Germany and Belgium that crashes if the computer is not set on English month names. Somewher in the code is alfa month used and it crashes on German or Dutch local settings for some months. For example English: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Duth: Jan Feb Mar Apr Mei Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec German: Jan Feb Mrz Apr Mai Jun Jul Aug Sep Okt Nov Dez As you notice a lot of shorts are identical. This ticket app, work fine until after a few months in Mai a (important) report no longer worked and gave an error. The cause of the error was that when building his SQL string he use the mmm format to specify a date. Ofcourse in English its is May but in Dutch it is Mei. So access gave a runtime error. So never use alfa shorts for months and never split a date based on a fix seperator like "/" or "-". You get in to trouble one day... And these are errors hard to find. The reason why I know german use . As seperator is because a Belgian Electronic Banking software fails to work when the pc is set to German (We are trilangual in Belgium). You can leave the pc set to German but you need to change the regional settings date format seperator to / or -. I and the bank helpdesk searched for about 8 hours to solve this.... There is another oddity I Access when using dates... I believe its a bug since Access 2K. Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with #[Date]# ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 january 2004 ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 december 2004 ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 december 2004 Bizare he? Never trust Access with dates..... I supose this bug is only in the international versions... Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Erwin: What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and dd/mm/yy? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. > For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API > guide = good. > > Erwin > > > Option Compare Database > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias > "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As > SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal > cchDate As Long) As Long > Public Sub testtt() > 'KPD-Team 2000 > 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ > 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net > Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME > With ST > .wDay = 31 > .wMonth = 8 > .wYear = 2000 > End With > Buffer = String(255, 0) > GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) > Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) > MsgBox Buffer > End Sub > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' > date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks > you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the > GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mlcollins1948 at alltel.net Tue May 4 10:52:01 2004 From: mlcollins1948 at alltel.net (Michael Collins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:52:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. Thanks Michael From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 12:02:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:02:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD842@stekelbes.ithelps.local> References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD842@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <2138480241.20040504190212@cactus.dk> Hi Erwin > There is another oddity I Access when using dates... > I believe its a bug since Access 2K. > Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with #[Date]# > ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 january 2004 > ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 december > 2004 > ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 > december 2004 > Bizare he? > Never trust Access with dates..... > I supose this bug is only in the international versions... It's not a bug, it's CDate() being intelligent. First attempt is to check if the expression conforms to a US date. If that fails, it tries an international (ISO) format or your local settings, then another etc. - that's why it also understands #2004/01/12#. /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 12:13:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:13:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they don't use multiplication or division. Not true. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi Charlotte Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? /gustav > Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess > they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people > simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They > seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to > adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi all > Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". > Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why > not let a programmer proofread such tips? > > Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) > If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, > you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl > instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers > up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that > large." However, later on down the line, it might. > Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with > hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the > dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different > from using CInt. The syntax is: > CDBl(numericstring) > CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up > to 1.7976931348623158E+308. > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Tue May 4 12:14:08 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:14:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c431fb$36681680$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Check the archives as this thread has been covered many times in the past. Your only choices are not to apply the Operating System patch that restricts the security (not highly recommended), use CDO code to process your emails, or purchase a 3rd party product like Redemption. Here are a couple of useful links: Programming Microsoft Outlook and CDO http://www.microeye.com/resources/res_outlkb.htm Slipstick Outlook and Exhange Solution Center http://www.slipstick.com Redemption http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:52 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. Thanks Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 12:18:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:18:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> Message-ID: uh-oh, here we go again. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:52 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. Thanks Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 12:09:00 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:09:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip References: <409729D4.111.174488@localhost> Message-ID: <4097CE2C.9010601@shaw.ca> Maybe they just dropped a clanger? Bryan Carbonnell wrote: >On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > >>Hi all >> >>Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". >> >>Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? >>Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? >> >> >> >>Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) >> >> > > > > > >> >> >> > >I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least >CLng. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 12:28:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:28:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1140045602.20040504192817@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Ahh, but also subtraction (which includes addition of mixed positives and negatives) certainly isn't safe. Try: ? 10.1 - 10.0 Should return 0.1 ... You must use CCur() or CDec() for this. /gustav > No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they > don't use multiplication or division. Not true. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi Charlotte > Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. > And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? > /gustav >> Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess >> they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people >> simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They >> seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to >> adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue May 4 12:41:02 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:41:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: <4097CE2C.9010601@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000501c431fe$fbf86230$6401a8c0@COA3> There goes Marty making me go to the Canada/UK/Australia to American slang conversion dictionary again LOL Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Maybe they just dropped a clanger? Bryan Carbonnell wrote: >On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > >>Hi all >> >>Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". >> >>Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? >>Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? >> >> >> >>Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) >> >> > > > > > >> >> >> > >I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least >CLng. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 12:55:28 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:55:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip References: <000501c431fe$fbf86230$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <4097D910.7050905@shaw.ca> Better add this one Doric Scots dictionary in case I start blethering. http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/ Here Ive been festent up in a black weskit made naar han twenty ear syne, an deggit! its shrunken. Developer wrote: >There goes Marty making me go to the Canada/UK/Australia to American >slang conversion dictionary again LOL > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:09 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > > >Maybe they just dropped a clanger? > >Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > > > >>On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>Hi all >>> >>>Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". >>> >>>Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? >>>Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? >>> >>> >>> >>>Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least >>CLng. >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 13:03:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:03:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001c431fb$36681680$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <20040504180320.JFLZ17779.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Or upgrade to Outlook 2003. :) Susan H. Check the archives as this thread has been covered many times in the past. Your only choices are not to apply the Operating System patch that restricts the security (not highly recommended), use CDO code to process your emails, or purchase a 3rd party product like Redemption. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 13:01:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:01:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) References: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> Message-ID: <4097DA75.5080005@shaw.ca> Or real quick and dirty Express ClickYes is a tiny program that sits in the taskbar and clicks the Yes button for Outlook security http://www.express-soft.com/mailmate/clickyes.html However if you are really using Outlook Express there is a description on above site to set the appropriate option in the Outlook's Express settings. To turn the prompts off, click Options on the menu, switch to the Security tab, and clear the Warn me when other applications try to send mail as me checkbox. Michael Collins wrote: >I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. > > >Thanks > > > >Michael > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 13:25:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:25:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: I know that. Did I misunderstand your question? No mathematical operation is safe from floating point creep that I know of. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi Charlotte Ahh, but also subtraction (which includes addition of mixed positives and negatives) certainly isn't safe. Try: ? 10.1 - 10.0 Should return 0.1 ... You must use CCur() or CDec() for this. /gustav > No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they > don't use multiplication or division. Not true. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi Charlotte > Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. > And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? > /gustav >> Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess >> they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people >> simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They >> seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to >> adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 13:25:19 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:25:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: I must have missed hearing about this...are the security settings more user configurable in O2K3? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] (no subject) Or upgrade to Outlook 2003. :) Susan H. Check the archives as this thread has been covered many times in the past. Your only choices are not to apply the Operating System patch that restricts the security (not highly recommended), use CDO code to process your emails, or purchase a 3rd party product like Redemption. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 13:46:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:46:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19644736487.20040504204628@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte > I know that. I know. > Did I misunderstand your question? You wrote: " .. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting." > No mathematical operation is safe from floating point creep that I > know of. I think that's the way to put it. /gustav > Ahh, but also subtraction (which includes addition of mixed positives > and negatives) certainly isn't safe. Try: > ? 10.1 - 10.0 > Should return 0.1 ... > You must use CCur() or CDec() for this. > /gustav >> No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they >> don't use multiplication or division. Not true. >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip >> Hi Charlotte >> Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. >> And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? >> /gustav >>> Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess >>> they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people >>> simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They >>> seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to >>> adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 13:56:39 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:56:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040504185637.SJWM15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Outlook 2003 considers anything created in a VBA module as a trusted source, so the prompts are automatically inhibited. Susan H. I must have missed hearing about this...are the security settings more user configurable in O2K3? From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue May 4 14:13:48 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:13:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8A9@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Susan, Are you referring to a VBA module within Outlook? Because I've heard the opposite with regard to Outlook being automated from external code. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] (no subject) Outlook 2003 considers anything created in a VBA module as a trusted source, so the prompts are automatically inhibited. Susan H. I must have missed hearing about this...are the security settings more user configurable in O2K3? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 14:27:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:27:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8A9@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040504192739.KIWM16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Any COM add-in you install in Outlook 2003 is automatically trusted. That means, Outlook 2003 bypasses all the security prompts. It's my understanding that any code written in Outlook's VBA editor is trusted -- so I probably should've been more specific on that point, but the add-in business can get you around that sometimes. It's a start. Also, you can update the registry and upgrade the danger status of file types by listing their extensions -- so you can more easily control what you can download now. Again, not the complete fix we'd like, but a good start. What I hate is backing up the BCM -- a new add-in. That's a circus. Well, backing it up isn't the problem -- reverting to the back up is a real pia. Susan H. Susan, Are you referring to a VBA module within Outlook? Because I've heard the opposite with regard to Outlook being automated from external code. From GregSmith at starband.net Tue May 4 14:40:43 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:40:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access db crash In-Reply-To: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> References: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1202.216.43.21.235.1083699643.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue May 4 14:45:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:45:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <16773332.1083699309101.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c43210$6b2f6430$de1811d8@danwaters> Susan, Can this - or does this - help with sending emails from any other application where the email is generated from VBA? TIA, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] (no subject) Any COM add-in you install in Outlook 2003 is automatically trusted. That means, Outlook 2003 bypasses all the security prompts. It's my understanding that any code written in Outlook's VBA editor is trusted -- so I probably should've been more specific on that point, but the add-in business can get you around that sometimes. It's a start. Also, you can update the registry and upgrade the danger status of file types by listing their extensions -- so you can more easily control what you can download now. Again, not the complete fix we'd like, but a good start. What I hate is backing up the BCM -- a new add-in. That's a circus. Well, backing it up isn't the problem -- reverting to the back up is a real pia. Susan H. Susan, Are you referring to a VBA module within Outlook? Because I've heard the opposite with regard to Outlook being automated from external code. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 4 14:54:56 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:54:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 15:03:12 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:03:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001c43210$6b2f6430$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <20040504200310.UOPP15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Unfortunately, probalby not -- as long as the commands must originate from another application, you're probably stuck. However, IF you can find a way to convert that to an Outlook add-in, you could then ... I think... Initate the call to the add-in from another application -- couldn't you? I may be grasping at straws. Susan H. Susan, Can this - or does this - help with sending emails from any other application where the email is generated from VBA? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 15:14:19 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:14:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 15:23:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:23:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue May 4 15:26:25 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:26:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: You could use the API Private Declare Function CreateDirectoryEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "CreateDirectoryExA" (ByVal lpTemplateDirectory As String, ByVal lpNewDirectory As String, lpSecurityAttributes As Any) As Long "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] FS object accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/04/2004 03:23 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 15:29:41 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:29:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 15:42:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:42:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 15:48:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:48:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: Yikes! ...but your error handler works;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 15:51:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:51:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Message-ID: The ADO version is the one installed with Jet SP-8 and with Office 2003. Do you happen to have 2003 on one of your own machines? We've had a few odd surprises when an AXP installer was built on a machine with O2003 installed, even though we use Wise and SageKey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 4 15:51:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 06:51:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40988EFA.10048.D3DA6@localhost> On 4 May 2004 at 7:31, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Erwin: > > What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and > dd/mm/yy? > Apparently Sweden uses a lot of formats. During a similar discussions, a swedish poster in one of the PowerBasic forums once posted this: "In some 15 different local orders, I find the following variations: 22/9 -99 (d/M -yy) 3/12 1999 (d/M yyyy) 010399 (ddMMyy) 000201 (yyMMdd) 19991104 (yyyyMMdd)" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 15:57:51 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:57:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: How about: Set SubFolders = MainFolder.SubFolders Set SubFolder = SubFolders.Add("NewSubFolder") Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Yikes! ...but your error handler works;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 4 16:00:20 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD843@stekelbes.ithelps.local> To me it's not intelligent, because it uses different rules for same thing... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Hi Erwin > There is another oddity I Access when using dates... > I believe its a bug since Access 2K. > Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with > #[Date]# ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 > january 2004 ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing > 30 december > 2004 > ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 > december 2004 Bizare he? > Never trust Access with dates..... > I supose this bug is only in the international versions... It's not a bug, it's CDate() being intelligent. First attempt is to check if the expression conforms to a US date. If that fails, it tries an international (ISO) format or your local settings, then another etc. - that's why it also understands #2004/01/12#. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 4 16:06:11 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:06:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Accessdbcrash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c4321b$a0a748c0$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Hello Charlotte, Your comment re having problems with your installer is disturbing. Do you use the runtime files provided by Sagekey? Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Accessdbcrash The ADO version is the one installed with Jet SP-8 and with Office 2003. Do you happen to have 2003 on one of your own machines? We've had a few odd surprises when an AXP installer was built on a machine with O2003 installed, even though we use Wise and SageKey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Tue May 4 16:16:35 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:16:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF086E6A2A@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> John, According to Gunther Born in "Microsoft Windows Script Host 2.0 Developers Guide" " . . . you must be sure that the path (passed to the FSO's CreateFolder method) is valid . . . " So, it would appear that you'll need to parse and build as you go. Hope this helps. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 16:25:44 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:25:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Our Cover Girl References: <000001c43210$6b2f6430$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <000301c4321e$5c0d9c20$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...just got my Access/VB/SQL copy ...our very own Susan Harkins has the cover story ...very nicely done too :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 16:28:51 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:28:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Our Cover Girl In-Reply-To: <000301c4321e$5c0d9c20$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040504212849.OEHY24544.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> thank you. :) It was a nice coincidence that we ended up discussing the subject shortly after I wrote that -- I knew more about the subject than I would have otherwise. :) Susan H. ...just got my Access/VB/SQL copy ...our very own Susan Harkins has the cover story ...very nicely done too :) From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 16:52:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:52:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makesAccessdbcrash Message-ID: Yes we do. However, we had inadvertently let an internal installer go with Office Web Components (or whatever the reference is) included, since Access XP includes that by default when you build a new database. It isn't needed and we took it out, but it caused a problem when the setup was created on a machine that also has O2003 installed (though not Access 2003) and the installation was run on a machine with 2002 installed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy [mailto:dw-murphy at cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makesAccessdbcrash Hello Charlotte, Your comment re having problems with your installer is disturbing. Do you use the runtime files provided by Sagekey? Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Accessdbcrash The ADO version is the one installed with Jet SP-8 and with Office 2003. Do you happen to have 2003 on one of your own machines? We've had a few odd surprises when an AXP installer was built on a machine with O2003 installed, even though we use Wise and SageKey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Tue May 4 16:57:17 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:57:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092EA@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> DO NOT REPLY TO THEM!!!!! If you do, you will get emails every three days telling you about jobs all over the country that have little or nothing to do with programming. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 17:23:09 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:23:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: A quick search notices that they ended up on David Horowitz' Fight Back website. The actions of these companies prove that their bottom line seems to be more important than good customer care. They have been elected to fightback.com's "Customer Dis-Service Hall of Shame!" http://www.fightback.com/byteback/writebackresults/writebackresults.cfm *** We add the ProSavvy to the Consumer Dis-Service Hall of Shame: Mr. John Hardy, Vice President ProSavvy 9510 Meridian Blvd. #200 Englewood, CO 80112 *** Mark -----Original Message----- From: Julie Reardon-Taylor [mailto:prosoft6 at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 4 17:25:57 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:25:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: <39350-2200452422255733@christopherhawkins.com> Here's the situation: A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet 8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it has no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be any other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default printer. I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly business app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. -Christopher- From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 17:31:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:31:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: Christopher, Please keep me informed of your progress regarding this matter. I believe we are scheduled to receive that model within the next 30-60 days. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:26 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Here's the situation: A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet 8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it has no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be any other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default printer. I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly business app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 17:35:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: You would not *believe* the oddities with Access and new printers. If the 8000 is state of the art, it's possible that A2003 just can't talk to it because it doesn't yet know how. Can you configure the printer to use a different driver or to masquerade as an earlier model? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:26 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Here's the situation: A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet 8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it has no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be any other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default printer. I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly business app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue May 4 17:38:21 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:38:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy In-Reply-To: <16514865.1083708104991.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c43228$816ea810$de1811d8@danwaters> Jeff - Is it something like this? Private Sub AnnoyProspects() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgState as String Dim stgPosition as String Dim stg as String Dim rst as DAO.Recordset Dim stgOverHypedMessage as String stgState = Call GetRandomState stgPosition = Call GetAnyPosition(stgState) stgOverHypedMessage = Call GetOverHypedMessage(stgPosition) stg = "SELECT Person FROM tblProspectList" _ & " WHERE DateLastAnnoyed <= (Date() - 3)" Set rst = DBEngine(0)(0).OpenRecordset(stg, dbOpenSnapshot) If rst.EOF = False Then Docmd.SendObject , , , rst!Person, , , _ "Your Perfect New Position!", stgOverHypedMessage, False End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Sub EH: Call GlobalErrorHandler End Sub Having Fun, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy DO NOT REPLY TO THEM!!!!! If you do, you will get emails every three days telling you about jobs all over the country that have little or nothing to do with programming. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 4 18:48:00 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:48:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: <198400-2200452423480471@christopherhawkins.com> All, I got it! It turns out that only connecting to the printer over the network was insufficient - the network guy said something about that model HP using virtual ports or some such. I didnt really understand what he was saying. So here is what I did - 1) I added a printer locally 2) Selected the HP 8000 from the list 3) Assigned it a new port with the same address as the port of the network-connected printer. This made sure that the drivers were installed on the local machine. 4) Set the new printer as the default. So now the local machine has drivers for that printer, and I think (but am not sure) that it is now spooling its own print jobs rather than letting the server do it. Not being a crack hardware/network guy, I can't tell you why this is working - but it is working. If anyone has insight as to why this worked, please feel free to expound. I'm pretty curious. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:18 -0700 >You would not *believe* the oddities with Access and new printers. >If >the 8000 is state of the art, it's possible that A2003 just can't >talk >to it because it doesn't yet know how. Can you configure the >printer to >use a different driver or to masquerade as an earlier model? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:26 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? > > >Here's the situation: > >A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet >8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it >has >no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be >any >other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default >printer. > >I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly >business >app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the >Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. > >Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. > >-Christopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 4 19:08:02 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:08:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 4 19:18:52 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:18:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: Thank you to everyone who responded. I performed a google search as well and was astonished at what I saw on several sites. Their fees seem very steep. AHHHHH the lure of having someone just bring the work to me!!! Too good to be true. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 4 19:24:00 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:24:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: Have you tried installing a different driver? When problems like that pop-up, there are usually alternate drivers that can be used. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Tue May 4 19:36:39 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:36:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF086E6B6A@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> J?rgen, >> Have I said before I hate the FS object... Same here. But is there another (simpler) way to get specifics on a file, i.e. create date, last modified date, last access date, file size? Don From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 19:49:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:49:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Have I said before I hate the FS object... No doubt. Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? Why not hate ... Never mind. It's just a tool. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FS object Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue May 4 19:52:05 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:52:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE596@TAPPEEXCH01> >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? >Why not hate ... This coming from the guy who refuses to use the Redemption DLL because it's a COM object. Never a dull moment around here! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object >Have I said before I hate the FS object... No doubt. Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? Why not hate ... Never mind. It's just a tool. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FS object Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 19:58:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:58:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF086E6A2A@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: Yea, so it seems. I have developed code to do that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object John, According to Gunther Born in "Microsoft Windows Script Host 2.0 Developers Guide" " . . . you must be sure that the path (passed to the FSO's CreateFolder method) is valid . . . " So, it would appear that you'll need to parse and build as you go. Hope this helps. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Tue May 4 19:57:56 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:57:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092EB@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> EXACTLY! Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Jeff - Is it something like this? Private Sub AnnoyProspects() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgState as String Dim stgPosition as String Dim stg as String Dim rst as DAO.Recordset Dim stgOverHypedMessage as String stgState = Call GetRandomState stgPosition = Call GetAnyPosition(stgState) stgOverHypedMessage = Call GetOverHypedMessage(stgPosition) stg = "SELECT Person FROM tblProspectList" _ & " WHERE DateLastAnnoyed <= (Date() - 3)" Set rst = DBEngine(0)(0).OpenRecordset(stg, dbOpenSnapshot) If rst.EOF = False Then Docmd.SendObject , , , rst!Person, , , _ "Your Perfect New Position!", stgOverHypedMessage, False End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Sub EH: Call GlobalErrorHandler End Sub Having Fun, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy DO NOT REPLY TO THEM!!!!! If you do, you will get emails every three days telling you about jobs all over the country that have little or nothing to do with programming. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 20:01:24 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:01:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about: Function FSCreateFolderPath(strPath As String) On Error GoTo Err_FSCreateFolderPath Dim col As Collection Dim intPos As Integer Dim strToken As String Dim strTempPath As String Set col = New Collection strTempPath = strPath intPos = InStr(strTempPath, "\") While intPos > 0 strToken = Left$(strTempPath, intPos) strTempPath = Right$(strTempPath, Len(strTempPath) - intPos) intPos = InStr(strTempPath, "\") col.Add strToken, strToken Wend strTempPath = "" While col.Count > 0 strTempPath = strTempPath & col(1) col.Remove (1) fs.CreateFolder strTempPath Wend Exit_FSCreateFolderPath: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_FSCreateFolderPath: Select Case Err Case 70 'Permission denied (trying to create a drive letter) Resume Next Case 58 'Dir already exists Resume Next Case Else MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function basTest.FSCreateFolderPath" Resume Exit_FSCreateFolderPath End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function This is a method of a class wrapper with the FS object declared in the class header. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object How about: Set SubFolders = MainFolder.SubFolders Set SubFolder = SubFolders.Add("NewSubFolder") Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Yikes! ...but your error handler works;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 20:03:56 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:03:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE596@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: There is a big difference. The file system object comes with Windows (and internet explorer, and other things). Redemption I have to buy and install. nuff said. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? >Why not hate ... This coming from the guy who refuses to use the Redemption DLL because it's a COM object. Never a dull moment around here! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object >Have I said before I hate the FS object... No doubt. Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? Why not hate ... Never mind. It's just a tool. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FS object Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 20:56:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:56:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 4 21:33:52 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:33:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 22:02:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 23:02:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 5 02:56:09 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! Message-ID: <20040505075609.52473.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly I can create other files on the directory File permission aren't messed with I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? Que pasa? What could be wrong? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 5 02:05:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:05:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD843@stekelbes.ithelps.local> References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD843@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <1131680456.20040505090516@cactus.dk> Hi Erwin > To me it's not intelligent, because it uses different rules for same > thing... Well, no and yes, its purpose is to convert "something" to a date value if at all possible. Of course, different rules must be used for this. Also, the expression can be of any type other that a string. What you request is something like CDateStr(expression, [requested format]) That would be nice. /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:02 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > Hi Erwin >> There is another oddity I Access when using dates... >> I believe its a bug since Access 2K. >> Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with >> #[Date]# ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 >> january 2004 ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing >> 30 december >> 2004 >> ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 >> december 2004 Bizare he? >> Never trust Access with dates..... >> I supose this bug is only in the international versions... > It's not a bug, it's CDate() being intelligent. First attempt is to > check if the expression conforms to a US date. If that fails, it tries > an international (ISO) format or your local settings, then another etc. > - that's why it also understands #2004/01/12#. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 5 03:57:54 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 01:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! In-Reply-To: <20040505075609.52473.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040505085754.78754.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Good old "Compact and Repair"...still strange. Sander S D wrote: Hi group, i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly I can create other files on the directory File permission aren't messed with I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? Que pasa? What could be wrong? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 06:14:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:14:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! In-Reply-To: <20040505085754.78754.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are you saying Compact and Repair fixed the problem? Including the problem with C2DbShowUsers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! Good old "Compact and Repair"...still strange. Sander S D wrote: Hi group, i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly I can create other files on the directory File permission aren't messed with I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? Que pasa? What could be wrong? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed May 5 06:53:37 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:53:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086DE01@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4C5@ADGSERVER> I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 07:41:03 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:41:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4C5@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed May 5 07:56:01 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:56:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086DE8D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4C6@ADGSERVER> I have used the FSO before with good results. I think it is kind of like you insinuated, use the proper tool for the job. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 5 09:17:24 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:17:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: I used file system functionality to generate lists of files on laptop and server. Sine the application named files with a standard name and an incrementing suffix in the name and because one of the applications changed the file last modified stamp even if only opened for viewing and because the data was stored in fields such that you could not tell whether a file had been modified by any combination of time stamp and size, the synchronization routine was primarily based on file name. A difference in size was a guarantee of a different file version between laptop and server. The system generated the names of over 4 gigabytes of active files on the server and 4 gigabytes of files on the laptop everytime a user shut down, compared the lists and copied files missing on one or the other to where it was missing. This happened on demand and automatically everytime a laptop user shut down the application. Needless to say I searched for the quickest solution since I had 6 laptop users who would be working out of the office and back daily, and often several times a day. The FSO was never an option because the scripting runtime was not available and a version of the code I developed from the api examples in the VBA companion book to the 97 Developer's Handbook ran about 20% slower. That system generated the file structure and synchronized all template files and determined the path of every file of every type required by emulating the database structure in the file system. A table/field name path beneath the location of the BE was determined and a hierarchical interpretation of the relational database generated the structure in the file system and automatically saved files in locations generated on the fly. In addition, file names were never stored in a table but always used to populate lists generated on the fly using the Dir function. I also provided sorting by name/date/size by clicking on a 'header' and the system continues to work very well. Because this was such a pervasive part of the application, I invested considerable research and effort into fine tuning it and I am very surprised to hear anyone say that the api versions are faster. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bobby Heid" > >I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the >FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and >information about the files off of a large hard drive. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a > >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "John W. Colby" > > > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > > > >No doubt. > > > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows > >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the > >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > > > >Never mind. > > > >It's just a tool. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 5 09:48:19 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:48:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE597@TAPPEEXCH01> John, Deep cleansing breaths... We don't want to anyone to be the victim of code rage ;-) Everyone has their hot buttons. Jurgen is obsessed with performance, you are inclined towards rapid development, and I am driven by reliability i.e. making my app as bulletproof as possible. Many unfortunate experiences and frustrated clients later, I made a personal policy of avoiding "built-in" ActiveX DLL's or OCX controls unless: a) They offered functionality that was not easily duplicated through coding. or b) I had a reasonable level of control of the system environment (i.e. know exactly what versions of Windows/Office/IE were installed and didn't have to contend with an overzealous sysadmin). My turning point? I used to use the MS Common Dialog OCX control. Then one day I had a frantic phone call from a customer hundreds of miles away. All of a sudden my app stopped working on her machine. After a lot of Q&A and research, I found that it was due to IE 5 installing a new version of mscomctl.ocx, that was not backwards compatible. Then I found that all of this (free) wasted tech support time was wholly unnecessary, since comdlg32 was just a wrapper around a basic set of API calls. A little research and about an hour tweaking a bas module I downloaded, and I had a module that I just drop into all my projects. Poof! No more ocx hassles. Our office is far from the "concentration camp" that Jurgen worked in, but they are still hyper-sensitive about security. What he stated about sysadmins shutting off its functionality is a valid point. It appears that you don't have these constraints with any of your clients. For example, you were able to convince your clients to not install the current Office service pack, to get around the Outlook email security dialog. I don't dictate the system security policies here. And there is no way in h*ll that I'm taking the heat for overriding their security decisions. Part of my QA process is ensuring that my app won't crap out with an OS upgrade or service pack. Now, back to the FSO. I have never used it in any of my production apps. Not because it is evil, but because I don't find its functionality to be worth the potential deployment pitfalls. Most of the time, my file system needs consist of copying files, deleting files, creating directories and listing directory contents. All of these are already built into VBA (FileCopy, Kill, MkDir, Dir). The remaining (which I don't normally need/use) can be implemented through API calls. Why would I ship my code with a reference to another library when it's already built in? Just doesn't make sense to me. BTW, a recent project involved iterating through a directory of > 5000 textfiles. Dir wouldn't cut it in this case, so I did a little research and ran across this link: Performance Comparison - FSO vs. API http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/fsoapicompare.htm Used it, and it works like a champ! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 5 09:50:18 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:50:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: VBA was fastest, API 2nd and FSO was, as you say, orders of magnitude slower. I never did a thorough comparison of the FSO because not one of the 5 locations at which I needed directory/file management tools had the scripting runtime enabled. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bobby Heid" > >I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the >FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and >information about the files off of a large hard drive. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a > >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 09:58:03 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:58:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great piece of writing. A bit different from "did I say I hate the FSO". It doesn't explain why you would hate the FSO, but it does explain why you would not use it in this situation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I used file system functionality to generate lists of files on laptop and server. Sine the application named files with a standard name and an incrementing suffix in the name and because one of the applications changed the file last modified stamp even if only opened for viewing and because the data was stored in fields such that you could not tell whether a file had been modified by any combination of time stamp and size, the synchronization routine was primarily based on file name. A difference in size was a guarantee of a different file version between laptop and server. The system generated the names of over 4 gigabytes of active files on the server and 4 gigabytes of files on the laptop everytime a user shut down, compared the lists and copied files missing on one or the other to where it was missing. This happened on demand and automatically everytime a laptop user shut down the application. Needless to say I searched for the quickest solution since I had 6 laptop users who would be working out of the office and back daily, and often several times a day. The FSO was never an option because the scripting runtime was not available and a version of the code I developed from the api examples in the VBA companion book to the 97 Developer's Handbook ran about 20% slower. That system generated the file structure and synchronized all template files and determined the path of every file of every type required by emulating the database structure in the file system. A table/field name path beneath the location of the BE was determined and a hierarchical interpretation of the relational database generated the structure in the file system and automatically saved files in locations generated on the fly. In addition, file names were never stored in a table but always used to populate lists generated on the fly using the Dir function. I also provided sorting by name/date/size by clicking on a 'header' and the system continues to work very well. Because this was such a pervasive part of the application, I invested considerable research and effort into fine tuning it and I am very surprised to hear anyone say that the api versions are faster. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bobby Heid" > >I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the >FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and >information about the files off of a large hard drive. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a > >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "John W. Colby" > > > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > > > >No doubt. > > > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows > >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the > >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > > > >Never mind. > > > >It's just a tool. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 10:55:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:55:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE597@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving Ahhhh... I feel better now. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object John, Deep cleansing breaths... We don't want to anyone to be the victim of code rage ;-) Everyone has their hot buttons. Jurgen is obsessed with performance, you are inclined towards rapid development, and I am driven by reliability i.e. making my app as bulletproof as possible. Many unfortunate experiences and frustrated clients later, I made a personal policy of avoiding "built-in" ActiveX DLL's or OCX controls unless: a) They offered functionality that was not easily duplicated through coding. or b) I had a reasonable level of control of the system environment (i.e. know exactly what versions of Windows/Office/IE were installed and didn't have to contend with an overzealous sysadmin). My turning point? I used to use the MS Common Dialog OCX control. Then one day I had a frantic phone call from a customer hundreds of miles away. All of a sudden my app stopped working on her machine. After a lot of Q&A and research, I found that it was due to IE 5 installing a new version of mscomctl.ocx, that was not backwards compatible. Then I found that all of this (free) wasted tech support time was wholly unnecessary, since comdlg32 was just a wrapper around a basic set of API calls. A little research and about an hour tweaking a bas module I downloaded, and I had a module that I just drop into all my projects. Poof! No more ocx hassles. Our office is far from the "concentration camp" that Jurgen worked in, but they are still hyper-sensitive about security. What he stated about sysadmins shutting off its functionality is a valid point. It appears that you don't have these constraints with any of your clients. For example, you were able to convince your clients to not install the current Office service pack, to get around the Outlook email security dialog. I don't dictate the system security policies here. And there is no way in h*ll that I'm taking the heat for overriding their security decisions. Part of my QA process is ensuring that my app won't crap out with an OS upgrade or service pack. Now, back to the FSO. I have never used it in any of my production apps. Not because it is evil, but because I don't find its functionality to be worth the potential deployment pitfalls. Most of the time, my file system needs consist of copying files, deleting files, creating directories and listing directory contents. All of these are already built into VBA (FileCopy, Kill, MkDir, Dir). The remaining (which I don't normally need/use) can be implemented through API calls. Why would I ship my code with a reference to another library when it's already built in? Just doesn't make sense to me. BTW, a recent project involved iterating through a directory of > 5000 textfiles. Dir wouldn't cut it in this case, so I did a little research and ran across this link: Performance Comparison - FSO vs. API http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/fsoapicompare.htm Used it, and it works like a champ! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From becklesd at tiscali.co.uk Wed May 5 11:33:27 2004 From: becklesd at tiscali.co.uk (David Beckles) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 16:33:27 +0000 Subject: Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <200405042100.i44L0SQ03973@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200405042100.i44L0SQ03973@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40991757.7070808@tiscali.co.uk> Why not use the API Private Declare Function MakeSureDirectoryPathExists Lib "imagehlp.dll" (ByVal lpPath As String) As Long which will create all the directories in the specified Path, beginning with the root, as required? (See http://www.allapi.net/) David From lmrazek at lcm-res.com Wed May 5 13:37:27 2004 From: lmrazek at lcm-res.com (Lawrence Mrazek) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:37:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP, Dbase Import error In-Reply-To: <001801c42b24$92e47800$036fa8c0@DellLaptop> Message-ID: <00a501c432d0$04702020$036fa8c0@DellLaptop> Hi All: I found the solution for this problem last week and thought I'd post it for the archives: 1. Install the latest service pack for Jet (see: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;829558). 2. Make a registry change (see below). 1. In the Registry Editor, browse to the following Registry key: \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Jet\4.0\Engines\Xbase 2. On the Right Pane, Click on Deleted. 3. Right-Click on the Deleted and click on Modify. 4. Change the entry from 0000 01 to 0000 00 4. Click OK. 5. Close the Registry and then open Access and test the import spec. Larry Mrazek LCM Research, Inc. ph. 314-432-5886 fx. 314-432-3304 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Mrazek Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 7:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access XP, Dbase Import error Hi: I'm getting the following error message when trying to import a dbase file. "The search key was not found in any record." This only happens in Access XP; for some reason, Access 97 imports the file without any problems. Has anyone encountered this error and if so, do you have any ideas on a workaround? Thanks in advance. Larry Mrazek LCM Research, Inc. ph. 314-432-5886 fx. 314-432-3304 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com Wed May 5 14:35:50 2004 From: Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com (Paul Baumann) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:35:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <5068EFF1BA3C1D4485B77CEC1CBBAAD5318814@farley.rtctech.com> I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. I am running out of hair to pull out. Paul Baumann From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 5 14:51:45 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:51:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K runtime issue Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8BB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I just installed an app that uses the A2K runtime on a WinXP machine. The application opens and runs fine but when you display a list of patients and double-click to show patient details the runtime opens an installation dialog that bombs out because the user does not have permissions to install applications. Does anyone know how to get rid of this? I don't believe there are any M$ office apps on this machine. I'm used to seeing this install dialog run at various times when I've opened certain apps on machines but never after an app was already open. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 5 14:56:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:56:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B80@main2.marlow.com> That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 5 14:56:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 12:56:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a single decimal place in the list. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. I am running out of hair to pull out. Paul Baumann -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 5 15:06:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:06:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B83@main2.marlow.com> If you really want one, let me know. I was working on a FSO like VBA class set. I got tied up in a nifty 'ability', which would let you 'monitor' files and folders, then I got tied up in other things, so that project dropped to the side. There are drawbacks to FSO, but in some cases, it's all you can use. One example of a drawback, you can't search with a wildcard (at least I didn't see anything like that when I needed it). So you have to look through an entire folder. Not a big deal, unless you are looking through 50,000 files. In ASP, you cannot use Dir, but you can use a VB .dll with Dir inside of it. I have seen system Admins disable FSO, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as some portray. (Dare I say this is sort of like the Lookup property of a field....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 5 15:14:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:14:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B84@main2.marlow.com> I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 5 17:00:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 18:00:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: >> Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE << J?rgen, I followed your advice somewhat. Currently I am thinking of NOT deleting the old FE if/when I do an update. My thinking is that with a single record change, I could instantly revert back to a previous version if, God forbid, the new FE crapped out. My question is this...how would you mitigate the version rollover problem? Group, any comments regarding the approach I've used? No comments included, but hopefully the naming convention suffices as an explanation of what is going on. (see code below...watch for line wrap) Mark *** BEGIN CODE *** Select Case fFolderExists(constInstallPath) Case True Select Case fFileExists(strCheckFileName) Case True If fShellExecute(strAction, strFileName, constInstallPath) Then 'Application.Quit End If Case False If fToggleFolderAttributes(constInstallPath) Then If fCopyFile(strSource, constInstallPath) Then MsgBox "Installation complete.", _ vbInformation, "Database Installation" If fShellExecute(strAction, strFileName, constInstallPath) Then 'Application.Quit End If End If End If End Select Case False If fCreateFolder(constInstallPath) Then If fToggleFolderAttributes(constInstallPath) Then If fCopyFile(strSource, constInstallPath) Then MsgBox "Installation complete.", _ vbInformation, "Database Installation" If fShellExecute(strAction, strFileName, constInstallPath) Then 'Application.Quit End If End If End If End If End Select *** END CODE *** -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 5 17:21:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 16:21:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: It's the script kiddy playground known as the scripting runtime library that I have commonly seen disabled. The FSO is simply one of the objects in that library and its loss is usually a byproduct of Admin wariness of the ease with which a novice can wreak havoc using the script capabilities. Dir supports use of the standard DOS wild cards. In your other post you mention the use of Kill. I place files in the recycle bin whenever possible because if a user deletes a file with an interface I've provided, I believe that he should at least get the protection that Windows itself affords. Of course if your code created a temporary file, there is no reason it shouldn't clean up after itself without using the recycle bin. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >If you really want one, let me know. I was working on a FSO like VBA class >set. I got tied up in a nifty 'ability', which would let you 'monitor' >files and folders, then I got tied up in other things, so that project >dropped to the side. > >There are drawbacks to FSO, but in some cases, it's all you can use. One >example of a drawback, you can't search with a wildcard (at least I didn't >see anything like that when I needed it). So you have to look through an >entire folder. Not a big deal, unless you are looking through 50,000 >files. >In ASP, you cannot use Dir, but you can use a VB .dll with Dir inside of >it. > >I have seen system Admins disable FSO, but I don't think it's as big of an >issue as some portray. (Dare I say this is sort of like the Lookup >property >of a field....LOL) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable >it >(and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue >to me. > > >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA >was >faster. > >And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? > >The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at >a >cost of performance. > >And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human >being? > >You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? > >As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the >past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from >arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. > >Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler >because "that's all he needs". > >I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is >infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required >to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my >customers, to most of the world. > >Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but >the fact is it doesn't. > >The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a >reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything >you >would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, >intellisense and the rest. > >I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list >even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop >into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your >class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... >it >seems the FSO wins my business. > >John (the backhoe operator) Colby. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com Tue May 4 18:47:49 2004 From: jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com (Jamie Kriegel) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:47:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh In-Reply-To: <20040504200310.UOPP15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <160E4AAFBF364898ACBF91391463CF.MAI@ws01.ipowerweb.com> I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie From mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com Wed May 5 17:59:42 2004 From: mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com (Mike Tope) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:59:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! References: <20040505075609.52473.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01c432f4$af4a2ee0$4ebaf13e@TopEnergy> Sander It seems to always be me who gets to say this. Some years back MS decided to limit the file extensions the developer was allowed to use. So if you've got nine different file types tough. You have to name each one .txt before you read or write it in Access. They complemented this decision by including an error message "Object is read-only" which gives absolutely no clue to what is going on. Does that hit the spot ? Regards Mike Tope ----- Original Message ----- From: "S D" To: "accessd" Sent: 05 May 2004 08:56 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! > Hi group, > > i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). > > I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly > I can create other files on the directory > File permission aren't messed with > > I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? > > > Que pasa? What could be wrong? > > TIA > > Sander > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 0419-0, 03/05/2004 > Tested on: 05/05/04 21:17:13 > avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 5 18:35:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 16:35:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed May 5 20:15:18 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:15:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Message-ID: <000001c43307$98d24040$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan From mastercafe at ctv.es Wed May 5 21:00:32 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 04:00:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c4330d$ea21eda0$0300a8c0@masterserver> We had the same problem with a Sharp TPV Printer (8cm thermal paper) and solved with an old driver from EPSON TM88. We don't know why but you can print with Word/Excel/PowerP but not with Access (2k or 2k2). When we change the driver its work fine. I recommend you search for any driver compatible to this printer but that run with Access. Good luck Juan Menendez ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: mi?rcoles, 05 de mayo de 2004 02:24 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Have you tried installing a different driver? When problems like that pop-up, there are usually alternate drivers that can be used. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 22:19:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:19:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B80@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: In 1977 I was building my first computer from board kits that I ordered from ads in the back of Popular Electronics. The standard of the time was the S100 backplane and the Z-80 or 6800 microprocessor. I went with a 1mhz z80 that could address a whopping 64kb or Ram, bought (2) 4 KByte static ram boards, then an 8 KByte board, and finally a 16 KByte board. By the time I got out of the Navy in June of 1978 I had the system with all but one of the 4K ram boards running for a grand total of 28 Kbytes of ram. The video board of the time had 80 x 32 (I think) character display with crude character graphics, and a serial port for loading a cassette tape. I hooked it up to my stereo cassette deck and used that to load the Zapple 16K basic (no relationship to Apple AFAIK) which took 3 minutes to load. Which of course left me with 8 Kbytes for my programs. Never really did much with it other than learning how to program in Basic. The Zapple basic wasn't very stable and crashed a lot. Of course it may very well have had something to do with only having 8K to work with and running out of memory. But I used that and tinkered until about 1982 when I worked for a graphics company called Megatek in the "Silicon valley of San Diego", Sorrento Valley. A group of 5 of us purchased the same SBC (Single Board Computer), a 16mhz 80186 based computer with 256 kbytes, 2 serial ports and a dial floppy interface. It ran CPM which was pretty much the OS of the day. It also had the option of soldering a second RAM chip over the top of the first chip, bending up one leg of the chip (RAS I believe) and doubling the ram which I promptly did so I had 500 kbytes. A tiny startup by the name of Borland had just published a radical language called Turbo Pascal which I purchased. At the time I was a bench technician fixing the graphics systems for Megatek, and one day I found 4 perfectly good engineering prototypes of their latest and greatest (but low end) graphics workstations - in the dumpster. Of course I promptly brought them back in to the building and was going to take them home. I was politely informed that they HAD to go in the trash (tax regulations apparently) but I persisted and finally got them to allow me to sign a paper saying I wouldn't resell them and that I could have them. Holy smoke batman! These were 1024 x 768 x 256 color vector graphic engineering workstations, with rotation, translation, scaling, hidden surface elimination, phong shading (all the hot graphics stuff of 1983). And I had 4 of them (I promptly gave three to my cohorts who had built the same SBC I had). A good friend who worked in Engineering writing the drivers for these machines came over to my house and got me started writing drivers for this thing to interface it to my SBC, and a year later I had written a complete driver set for every instruction that the workstation had, and had programmed a 3D sphere using squares (thinking back I don't know why I didn't use triangles), which I could rotate, scale up and down, translate (move back and forth in any plane) etc. Not terribly useful but by then I was a pretty competent programmer and soon after made the jump from fixing computers to programming them. Believe me, it was quite a step down when in 1986 I decided that CPM was dying and I had better get on the DOS bandwagon. I purchased a 12mhz 8088 PCXT which was several times slower than the SBC I was running, but it did have a 20mb hard disk and I could also buy 1mb memory expansion boards for extended memory. Plus I bought Lotus 123, DbII and Word Perfect (still programmed in Turbo Pascal though). Dog slow, but thoroughly modern! Yea, those were the good old days. And MAN were computers expensive!!! My first (and last, come to think of it) "store bought" was a 20mhz 80386 with 4 mbytes of RAM and a 40 mb disk for $3,500! That would be about 1988 I think. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Thu May 6 00:44:39 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:44:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel Message-ID: <002901c4332d$3cdb81e0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Hi Group, I am having a problem on certain reports using Office Links > Analyze it with Excel. Here is the error message I have received: ---------------- Microsoft Access can't retrieve the value of this property. The property isn't available from the view in which you're running the macro or Visual Basic code, or Microsoft Access encountered an error while retrieving the value of the property. To see the valid settings for this property, search the Help index for the name of the property. ---------------- I've searched Microsoft's knowledge base as well as the archives with no luck. I am able to use Office Links > Excel successfully on the report's underlying query. There is nothing unusual going on in these reports, a little sorting, a little grouping. The only calculated controls are totals in either the group or report footers. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 03:11:49 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:11:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Message-ID: <12311014.1083831109223.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From lists at theopg.com Thu May 6 04:30:40 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:30:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <12311014.1083831109223.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <001501c4334c$cc08b3f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 6 04:40:07 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:40:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <001501c4334c$cc08b3f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <001601c4334e$1defb190$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 6 04:40:24 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:40:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <001501c4334c$cc08b3f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <001701c4334e$281d96f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 04:43:03 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:43:03 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Message-ID: <9708125.1083836583482.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Had to reconfigure IIS first, managed to fumble my way round it....now it works if you use it from the server, but still tries to download when used from a workstation. Message date : May 06 2004, 10:39 AM >From : "MarkH" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System Enter Username & Password Below COLOR="BLACK">Username: SIZE="30"> COLOR="BLACK">Password: NAME="Password" SIZE="30"> TYPE=Submit NAME="Submit" VALUE="Submit"> checklogin.asp code is below: Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 06:49:41 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:49:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: Christopher, I'm archiving this post nonetheless, but did your solution require local admin privileges? In my current network environment, the option to add a local printer is not available (grayed out). Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: cfoust at infostatsystems.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? All, I got it! It turns out that only connecting to the printer over the network was insufficient - the network guy said something about that model HP using virtual ports or some such. I didnt really understand what he was saying. So here is what I did - 1) I added a printer locally 2) Selected the HP 8000 from the list 3) Assigned it a new port with the same address as the port of the network-connected printer. This made sure that the drivers were installed on the local machine. 4) Set the new printer as the default. So now the local machine has drivers for that printer, and I think (but am not sure) that it is now spooling its own print jobs rather than letting the server do it. Not being a crack hardware/network guy, I can't tell you why this is working - but it is working. If anyone has insight as to why this worked, please feel free to expound. I'm pretty curious. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:18 -0700 >You would not *believe* the oddities with Access and new printers. >If >the 8000 is state of the art, it's possible that A2003 just can't >talk >to it because it doesn't yet know how. Can you configure the >printer to >use a different driver or to masquerade as an earlier model? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:26 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? > > >Here's the situation: > >A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet >8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it >has >no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be >any >other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default >printer. > >I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly >business >app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the >Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. > >Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. > >-Christopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 07:24:45 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:24:45 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From j.frederick at att.net Thu May 6 07:32:02 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:32:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh In-Reply-To: <160E4AAFBF364898ACBF91391463CF.MAI@ws01.ipowerweb.com> Message-ID: I did what sounds like a similar thing(Access 2k). I was emulating a spreadsheet and assembling text for the cells that ran on for more than 22 vertical inches. I was also using the Line function in the Detail section Format event to draw the vertical lines. The lines stopped at 22", but a single detail line ran on without any apparent problem. I wasn't using a subreport, but I didn't run into a constraint on the total height of one detail line. There was also a 22" limit on the width. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jamie Kriegel Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From j.frederick at att.net Thu May 6 07:33:52 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:33:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: Make an append query to add a record with the number 900119 and then delete if you want. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu May 6 07:37:35 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 07:37:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: Hi Paul, see this; http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0005.htm basically you need to do an append query into your table with a record one number lower than you wish your autonumber first value to be. Then delete that record. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 >Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:24:45 +0200 (CEST) > >To all, >Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database >? >Thanks in advance. >Paul > >-- > >Whatever you Wanadoo: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > >This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 07:45:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:45:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 07:43:56 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:43:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383BF@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu May 6 07:46:47 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:46:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8C0@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 07:49:30 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:49:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: Group, The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any suggestions? If fShellExecute(strAction, _ strFileName, constInstallPath) Then Application.Quit End If If you need more details, just ask. Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 6 08:02:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:02:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10923225246.20040506150224@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Look up "A2K: Shell 'discoveries'" from 2004-04-22 in the archives for an example. /gustav > The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works > when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in > an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any > suggestions? > If fShellExecute(strAction, _ > strFileName, constInstallPath) Then > Application.Quit > End If From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 08:22:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:22:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8C0@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber either, so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an issue so be careful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 08:21:58 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:21:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C2@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Issue? I thought that was feature. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber either, so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an issue so be careful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 08:38:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:38:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C2@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: Issue, feature, bug... Definitely an annoyance in many cases. Try archiving records, compacting the db and discovering that you can't get them back in because the PK has been reused for another record! A PK is supposed to be unique to that record and by the compact resetting the autonumber to the next currently available number, you just "reused" the PK. THAT is a no-no! Issue, feature, bug... Take your pick. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Issue? I thought that was feature. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber either, so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an issue so be careful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 08:40:43 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:40:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: Thank you. I'll test it out. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark Look up "A2K: Shell 'discoveries'" from 2004-04-22 in the archives for an example. /gustav > The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works > when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in > an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any > suggestions? > If fShellExecute(strAction, _ > strFileName, constInstallPath) Then > Application.Quit > End If -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 08:41:58 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:41:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 6 08:48:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:48:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Lambert, <> I was just about to mention that, but you beat me to it. The minute someone says they want to start at a specific value, you have to question why they are using an autonumber at all. Much better to assign your own keys if you need that. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu May 6 08:56:20 2004 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:56:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F82@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 09:00:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:00:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 6 09:12:46 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:12:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5A8@TAPPEEXCH01> I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. 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From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 09:24:23 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:24:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Message-ID: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 09:26:03 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:26:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A2@xlivmbx12.aig.com> According to Microsoft, when this was a 'feature', you had to delete all the records in a table and then compact the database. Doing so would reset the AutoNumber field to start at 1 the next time records were added. I've never heard of any other circumstance resetting them. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the > AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of > mine). > > Amen. > > OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger > than > the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber > back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I > figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > To all, > > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database > > ? > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > > > -- > > > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) > that > > is > > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > are > > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > > this > > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > > address > > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended > > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 09:34:52 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:34:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Thank you. I'll test it out. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark Look up "A2K: Shell 'discoveries'" from 2004-04-22 in the archives for an example. /gustav > The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works > when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in > an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any > suggestions? > If fShellExecute(strAction, _ > strFileName, constInstallPath) Then > Application.Quit > End If -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 10:01:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:01:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8A@main2.marlow.com> Wow, quite a history...after reading through that, I think the gist of it was, you're an old fart! LOL Just kidding JC. The first programming I got into was DOS Basic, and that was on an 8088. My Dad worked for IBM when I was growing up, so we always had an IBM PC (starting with that 5100) in the house. I remember when VGA came out, we thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread! LOL. However, the most impressive gadget (even to this day), was when my dad came home with a PCMCIA 10 meg solid state non-volatile RAM drive. He put it in his laptop, and turned it on. The computer beeped that it was ready, and his screen was still scrolling through DOS commands. I know it was DOS, but I wonder how fast Windows would load off of a 'RAM' disk. (Non-Volatile of course) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! In 1977 I was building my first computer from board kits that I ordered from ads in the back of Popular Electronics. The standard of the time was the S100 backplane and the Z-80 or 6800 microprocessor. I went with a 1mhz z80 that could address a whopping 64kb or Ram, bought (2) 4 KByte static ram boards, then an 8 KByte board, and finally a 16 KByte board. By the time I got out of the Navy in June of 1978 I had the system with all but one of the 4K ram boards running for a grand total of 28 Kbytes of ram. The video board of the time had 80 x 32 (I think) character display with crude character graphics, and a serial port for loading a cassette tape. I hooked it up to my stereo cassette deck and used that to load the Zapple 16K basic (no relationship to Apple AFAIK) which took 3 minutes to load. Which of course left me with 8 Kbytes for my programs. Never really did much with it other than learning how to program in Basic. The Zapple basic wasn't very stable and crashed a lot. Of course it may very well have had something to do with only having 8K to work with and running out of memory. But I used that and tinkered until about 1982 when I worked for a graphics company called Megatek in the "Silicon valley of San Diego", Sorrento Valley. A group of 5 of us purchased the same SBC (Single Board Computer), a 16mhz 80186 based computer with 256 kbytes, 2 serial ports and a dial floppy interface. It ran CPM which was pretty much the OS of the day. It also had the option of soldering a second RAM chip over the top of the first chip, bending up one leg of the chip (RAS I believe) and doubling the ram which I promptly did so I had 500 kbytes. A tiny startup by the name of Borland had just published a radical language called Turbo Pascal which I purchased. At the time I was a bench technician fixing the graphics systems for Megatek, and one day I found 4 perfectly good engineering prototypes of their latest and greatest (but low end) graphics workstations - in the dumpster. Of course I promptly brought them back in to the building and was going to take them home. I was politely informed that they HAD to go in the trash (tax regulations apparently) but I persisted and finally got them to allow me to sign a paper saying I wouldn't resell them and that I could have them. Holy smoke batman! These were 1024 x 768 x 256 color vector graphic engineering workstations, with rotation, translation, scaling, hidden surface elimination, phong shading (all the hot graphics stuff of 1983). And I had 4 of them (I promptly gave three to my cohorts who had built the same SBC I had). A good friend who worked in Engineering writing the drivers for these machines came over to my house and got me started writing drivers for this thing to interface it to my SBC, and a year later I had written a complete driver set for every instruction that the workstation had, and had programmed a 3D sphere using squares (thinking back I don't know why I didn't use triangles), which I could rotate, scale up and down, translate (move back and forth in any plane) etc. Not terribly useful but by then I was a pretty competent programmer and soon after made the jump from fixing computers to programming them. Believe me, it was quite a step down when in 1986 I decided that CPM was dying and I had better get on the DOS bandwagon. I purchased a 12mhz 8088 PCXT which was several times slower than the SBC I was running, but it did have a 20mb hard disk and I could also buy 1mb memory expansion boards for extended memory. Plus I bought Lotus 123, DbII and Word Perfect (still programmed in Turbo Pascal though). Dog slow, but thoroughly modern! Yea, those were the good old days. And MAN were computers expensive!!! My first (and last, come to think of it) "store bought" was a 20mhz 80386 with 4 mbytes of RAM and a 40 mb disk for $3,500! That would be about 1988 I think. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 10:07:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:07:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A2@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: In fact it reset the autonumber to "last used value +1", i.e. if there were numbers 1-100 still in the table, it would set to 101. Of course if you deleted them all then it would start with 1. Anyway you look at it though, this is a bug. An autonumber is most often used as a PK and a PK is supposed to be unique to the record it was created for. It matters not if that record was deleted, it still existed, was assigned a PK, and no other record should be assigned that PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 According to Microsoft, when this was a 'feature', you had to delete all the records in a table and then compact the database. Doing so would reset the AutoNumber field to start at 1 the next time records were added. I've never heard of any other circumstance resetting them. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the > AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of > mine). > > Amen. > > OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger > than > the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber > back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I > figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > To all, > > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database > > ? > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > > > -- > > > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) > that > > is > > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > are > > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > > this > > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > > address > > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended > > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 10:26:19 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:26:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >Wow, quite a history...after reading through that, I think the gist of it was, you're an old fart! LOL LOL, Yup! >I know it was DOS, but I wonder how fast Windows would load off of a 'RAM' disk. (Non-Volatile of course) On that PCXT I mentioned, I wrote an application that "spoke" text files. It used a "database toolbox" from Borland to store words and the corresponding phoneme string. After entering about a thousand phoneme strings for various words I realized I needed to break words down to prefix / suffix / root to save data entry time (and dictionary). I wrote a function that found and stripped off the prefixes and suffixes using a brute force method. My "acid test" was AntiDisEstablishMentArianism. The time to compile / parse a paragraph I used for testing dropped from 3.5 minutes to 20 seconds when I added a 2mb ram disk and used that to run Turbo Pascal. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! Wow, quite a history...after reading through that, I think the gist of it was, you're an old fart! LOL Just kidding JC. The first programming I got into was DOS Basic, and that was on an 8088. My Dad worked for IBM when I was growing up, so we always had an IBM PC (starting with that 5100) in the house. I remember when VGA came out, we thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread! LOL. However, the most impressive gadget (even to this day), was when my dad came home with a PCMCIA 10 meg solid state non-volatile RAM drive. He put it in his laptop, and turned it on. The computer beeped that it was ready, and his screen was still scrolling through DOS commands. I know it was DOS, but I wonder how fast Windows would load off of a 'RAM' disk. (Non-Volatile of course) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! In 1977 I was building my first computer from board kits that I ordered from ads in the back of Popular Electronics. The standard of the time was the S100 backplane and the Z-80 or 6800 microprocessor. I went with a 1mhz z80 that could address a whopping 64kb or Ram, bought (2) 4 KByte static ram boards, then an 8 KByte board, and finally a 16 KByte board. By the time I got out of the Navy in June of 1978 I had the system with all but one of the 4K ram boards running for a grand total of 28 Kbytes of ram. The video board of the time had 80 x 32 (I think) character display with crude character graphics, and a serial port for loading a cassette tape. I hooked it up to my stereo cassette deck and used that to load the Zapple 16K basic (no relationship to Apple AFAIK) which took 3 minutes to load. Which of course left me with 8 Kbytes for my programs. Never really did much with it other than learning how to program in Basic. The Zapple basic wasn't very stable and crashed a lot. Of course it may very well have had something to do with only having 8K to work with and running out of memory. But I used that and tinkered until about 1982 when I worked for a graphics company called Megatek in the "Silicon valley of San Diego", Sorrento Valley. A group of 5 of us purchased the same SBC (Single Board Computer), a 16mhz 80186 based computer with 256 kbytes, 2 serial ports and a dial floppy interface. It ran CPM which was pretty much the OS of the day. It also had the option of soldering a second RAM chip over the top of the first chip, bending up one leg of the chip (RAS I believe) and doubling the ram which I promptly did so I had 500 kbytes. A tiny startup by the name of Borland had just published a radical language called Turbo Pascal which I purchased. At the time I was a bench technician fixing the graphics systems for Megatek, and one day I found 4 perfectly good engineering prototypes of their latest and greatest (but low end) graphics workstations - in the dumpster. Of course I promptly brought them back in to the building and was going to take them home. I was politely informed that they HAD to go in the trash (tax regulations apparently) but I persisted and finally got them to allow me to sign a paper saying I wouldn't resell them and that I could have them. Holy smoke batman! These were 1024 x 768 x 256 color vector graphic engineering workstations, with rotation, translation, scaling, hidden surface elimination, phong shading (all the hot graphics stuff of 1983). And I had 4 of them (I promptly gave three to my cohorts who had built the same SBC I had). A good friend who worked in Engineering writing the drivers for these machines came over to my house and got me started writing drivers for this thing to interface it to my SBC, and a year later I had written a complete driver set for every instruction that the workstation had, and had programmed a 3D sphere using squares (thinking back I don't know why I didn't use triangles), which I could rotate, scale up and down, translate (move back and forth in any plane) etc. Not terribly useful but by then I was a pretty competent programmer and soon after made the jump from fixing computers to programming them. Believe me, it was quite a step down when in 1986 I decided that CPM was dying and I had better get on the DOS bandwagon. I purchased a 12mhz 8088 PCXT which was several times slower than the SBC I was running, but it did have a 20mb hard disk and I could also buy 1mb memory expansion boards for extended memory. Plus I bought Lotus 123, DbII and Word Perfect (still programmed in Turbo Pascal though). Dog slow, but thoroughly modern! Yea, those were the good old days. And MAN were computers expensive!!! My first (and last, come to think of it) "store bought" was a 20mhz 80386 with 4 mbytes of RAM and a 40 mb disk for $3,500! That would be about 1988 I think. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 10:30:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:30:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8B@main2.marlow.com> There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may say Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they have within the database itself. I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which removed the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so I had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 6 10:30:38 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:30:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F82@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Message-ID: <001401c4337f$198646b0$6401a8c0@COA3> Access version? 2k2+ can use Application.Printers collection, and Printer objects. Older versions need API calls to PRTDEVMODE and other functions (arcane, to say the least). Hth Steve http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/access/codesamples/defaul t.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnacc2k2/html/odc_acc10_printers.asp -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 10:34:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:34:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 6 10:36:49 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:36:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Message-ID: <001a01c4337f$f5adfca0$6401a8c0@COA3> Sorry about that, I don't know how I typed in those extra 2k2's ..... Older versions ( <= A2k) need API calls to PRTDEVMODE and other functions, arcane, to say the least. -----Original Message----- From: Developer [mailto:Developer at UltraDNT.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Access version? 2k2+ can use Application.Printers collection, and Printer objects. Hth Steve http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/access/codesamples/defaul t.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnacc2k2/html/odc_acc10_printers.asp -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Thu May 6 10:33:58 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:33:58 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <000901c4337f$8ff863a0$0300a8c0@masterserver> We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 6 10:45:17 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:45:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001f01c43381$24658fd0$6401a8c0@COA3> Agreed - my customers never want to see Invoice 1. They don't want to look like newbies, so I start them at 1000 (or, 10,000) Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may say Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they have within the database itself. I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which removed the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so I had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > autonumber either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset > the autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in > a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. > Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with > the next value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database ? Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > **** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************ ** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu May 6 10:45:15 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:45:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars Message-ID: you might want to try: me.infDescrip = Eval("Reports![" & infnombre & "].caption" MastercafeCTV To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars 05/06/2004 10:33 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 6 10:51:16 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:51:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5A8@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <> Well besides the math, Autonumber will wrap to a negative value after that and come back to 0. You can never run out. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 10:54:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:54:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars Message-ID: Me.InfDescrip = Reports(infnombre).caption Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 10:56:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:56:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: I would use an autonumber to identify the record. Then I would have a separate field for an invoice number and populate it through code. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Developer [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Agreed - my customers never want to see Invoice 1. They don't want to look like newbies, so I start them at 1000 (or, 10,000) Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may say Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they have within the database itself. I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which removed the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so I had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > autonumber either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset > the autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in > a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. > Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with > the next value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database ? Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > **** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************ ** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 10:58:38 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A6@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket > Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). > There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to > an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and > so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may > say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just > built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for > credit > card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated > from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each > shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which > removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 6 11:00:43 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:00:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5AE@TAPPEEXCH01> Hmm... Didn't know that. Good to know. But what if you have 4,294,967,297 records in your table? Then you would run into a primary key conflict when the autonumber reaches 1 again. Talk about shoddy programming practices! P.S. For the humor impaired, that was a joke. P.P.S. If you don't know why that was a joke, try inserting 4 billion records into an Access table. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 <> Well besides the math, Autonumber will wrap to a negative value after that and come back to 0. You can never run out. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 6 11:02:57 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:02:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file Message-ID: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> Hi all If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the error above. The wizard can not accept a password. I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with PWD=mypassword; so it becomes Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same error. Is this possible? /gustav From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 11:06:46 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:06:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C7@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 11:11:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:11:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8E@main2.marlow.com> I see your point. However, at this point in time, I would rather stick with a simple Autonumber, which saves current development time, then rolling my own. I say this because I can imagine far worse 'requests' from management then to change an autonumber. Not too mention I get paid by the hour, so I honestly don't really care if I have to rebuild something. I try to build a lot of flexibility into my apps, but I can't program around every possibility. Not arguing, just expressing my viewpoint on it. Also, the IS Request system isn't 'seen' by upper management. It's an 'internal' IS app. The only interface anyone else sees is when they put in a request. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket > Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). > There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to > an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and > so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may > say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just > built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for > credit > card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated > from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each > shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which > removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 11:13:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:13:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: Remember, autonumbers don't *have* to be > 0! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Hmm... Didn't know that. Good to know. But what if you have 4,294,967,297 records in your table? Then you would run into a primary key conflict when the autonumber reaches 1 again. Talk about shoddy programming practices! P.S. For the humor impaired, that was a joke. P.P.S. If you don't know why that was a joke, try inserting 4 billion records into an Access table. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 <> Well besides the math, Autonumber will wrap to a negative value after that and come back to 0. You can never run out. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > autonumber either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset > the autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in > a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. > Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with > the next value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database ? Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Thu May 6 11:10:17 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:10:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c43384$a019c6c0$0300a8c0@masterserver> Really we are stupid... We use this to reference to forms.... But don't think of it. Many thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: jueves, 06 de mayo de 2004 17:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Substituying with vars Me.InfDescrip = Reports(infnombre).caption Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 11:17:21 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:17:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: You're on your on there. I wouldn't touch that design with a barge pole for any amount of money! You aren't really talking about the limitations of the report, you're talking about the limitations of the memo field control. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 11:20:42 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:20:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: I *always* program around that particular possibility. I've been bitten every time I didn't, and I'm running out of room for scars! Account numbers, Employee numbers, invoice numbers, and any other "numeric" identifiers tend to change their structure and logic without notice. When they casually mention that they've decided to go from 5 digits to 9, I just say, "no problem" and run an update query. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I see your point. However, at this point in time, I would rather stick with a simple Autonumber, which saves current development time, then rolling my own. I say this because I can imagine far worse 'requests' from management then to change an autonumber. Not too mention I get paid by the hour, so I honestly don't really care if I have to rebuild something. I try to build a lot of flexibility into my apps, but I can't program around every possibility. Not arguing, just expressing my viewpoint on it. Also, the IS Request system isn't 'seen' by upper management. It's an 'internal' IS app. The only interface anyone else sees is when they put in a request. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, > 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other > then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying > 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a > particular request, I may say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. > Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, > for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that > cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID > which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the > live database, which removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody > has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is > important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this > is an old hobby horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in > a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of > such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related > tables together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > > autonumber either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim > > DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append > > in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you > > want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick > > up with the next value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 11:35:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B91@main2.marlow.com> Don't get me wrong. I don't use Autonumbers 'willy-nilly' as 'human' identifiers. 99% of the time, I do use some other field, or 'calculated' value. There are those one percents though, where I feel very comfortable letting a user see an Autonumber. I used the Ticket number as an example, because it was an in house project, that I had/have complete control over. It's not something I have to push out the door, and let someone else play around with it. I don't think I can recall any instance of external usage of AutoNumbers as 'visible' keys. There may have been some, but I can't say either way. I do tend to stick to something the user can identify with. (ie, employee numbers are usually 'built' from other stuff', Invoices always seem to have date/month info in them, etc.). Well, I think we beat this horse to death already. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I *always* program around that particular possibility. I've been bitten every time I didn't, and I'm running out of room for scars! Account numbers, Employee numbers, invoice numbers, and any other "numeric" identifiers tend to change their structure and logic without notice. When they casually mention that they've decided to go from 5 digits to 9, I just say, "no problem" and run an update query. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I see your point. However, at this point in time, I would rather stick with a simple Autonumber, which saves current development time, then rolling my own. I say this because I can imagine far worse 'requests' from management then to change an autonumber. Not too mention I get paid by the hour, so I honestly don't really care if I have to rebuild something. I try to build a lot of flexibility into my apps, but I can't program around every possibility. Not arguing, just expressing my viewpoint on it. Also, the IS Request system isn't 'seen' by upper management. It's an 'internal' IS app. The only interface anyone else sees is when they put in a request. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, > 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other > then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying > 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a > particular request, I may say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. > Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, > for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that > cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID > which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the > live database, which removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody > has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is > important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this > is an old hobby horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in > a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of > such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related > tables together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > > autonumber either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim > > DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append > > in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you > > want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick > > up with the next value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Thu May 6 12:15:05 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:15:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <200405061714.NAA24837@jake.bcentralhost.com> Paul Try something like this:
You just need to add the script code in the form definition. It works in IE and Netscape. I don't know about other browsers. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 12:19:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:19:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B84@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: OK, I'll bite, what the heck is CDO. I went out and found a bunch of stuff on Google but from what I can find it requires a "mail server". Will this work for my system here at the home office or clients with just a workgroup? You realize that the response you just gave is one of those "annoying" pretty much useless things. If you're going to claim you use some wonderful whizbang widget you could at least provide a link to get started in understanding how in the world I can use your wonderful whizbang widget. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Thu May 6 12:46:25 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 23:16:25 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 References: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: <01f801c43392$2fea69f0$331865cb@winxp> Paul, Settings for AutoNumbers in a table can be customized through SQL Specific Query (In Query Design View, Click Query -> SQL Specific). Sample SQL statements are given below - (a) Modifying an existing Table - ALTER TABLE T_Books ALTER COLUMN BookID COUNTER (2000, 10) The above Query when run, modifies the settings for AutoNumbers In Column [BookID] Of Table [ T_Books] as follows - StartValue (Henceforth) = 2000 Increment Value (Henceforth) = 10 (If AutoNumber field is also the Primary Key, New start value should be so chosen as not to result in duplication of any existing value) (b) Creating a new Table - CREATE TABLE T_Books (BookID AUTOINCREMENT (2000, 10), Title Text) This creates a new Table with two columns i.e. [BookID] of AutoNumber type starting at 2000 (Increment = 10) and [Title] of Text type. Note - KeyWords AUTOINCREMENT and COUNTER can be used interchangeably Regards, A.D. Tejpal ----------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net To: accessd Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 17:54 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 6 12:55:16 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:55:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. Message-ID: Sorry about the OT nature of this message. I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From serbach at new.rr.com Thu May 6 13:29:44 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:29:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: <20040506132944.2066544880.serbach@new.rr.com> John, Did you ever read Jerry Pournelle's "The User's Guide"? It's a compendium of his early Byte columns. Your missive put me in mind of it. Regards, Steve Erbach Neenah, WI "PRACTICAL HOMEMAKER TIP -- Always keep an open box of baking soda in your refrigerator. That way, when people come to your house to visit, you can say: 'Would you care for some cold baking soda?' Then they will leave." - Dave Barry From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 13:43:05 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:43:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Without the control and using only a text box with plain text, it does not print more than 22 inches. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You're on your on there. I wouldn't touch that design with a barge pole for any amount of money! You aren't really talking about the limitations of the report, you're talking about the limitations of the memo field control. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 6 13:43:21 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:43:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel References: <002901c4332d$3cdb81e0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Message-ID: <409A8749.80806@shaw.ca> Have a look at this http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=uKAld5ikCHA.2708%40tkmsftngp11&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522Microsoft%2BAccess%2Bcan%27t%2Bretrieve%2Bthe%2Bvalue%2Bof%2Bthis%2Bproperty%2522%2Bexcel%2Boffice%2Blinks%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DuKAld5ikCHA.2708%2540tkmsftngp11%26rnum%3D1 It suggests you may have null in a numeric field or calculatedd control http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/attac-cg/ look in the Code and Design Tips area under the Reports section. There is a method discussed there as to how to modify your query to accept vb param at run time and still use TransferSpreadsheet or OutputTo. Jennifer Gross wrote: >Hi Group, > >I am having a problem on certain reports using Office Links > Analyze it >with Excel. Here is the error message I have received: >---------------- >Microsoft Access can't retrieve the value of this property. > >The property isn't available from the view in which you're running the >macro or Visual Basic code, or Microsoft Access encountered an error >while retrieving the value of the property. >To see the valid settings for this property, search the Help index for >the name of the property. >---------------- > >I've searched Microsoft's knowledge base as well as the archives with no >luck. > >I am able to use Office Links > Excel successfully on the report's >underlying query. There is nothing unusual going on in these reports, a >little sorting, a little grouping. The only calculated controls are >totals in either the group or report footers. > >Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, > >Jennifer Gross >databasics >+ 01 (805) 480-1921 >www.databasicsdesign.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Thu May 6 13:58:22 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel In-Reply-To: <409A8749.80806@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001801c4339c$1d7bbda0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Thanks Marty - at least I know I'm not the only one. I wound up building my own export to excel, which works without a hitch. Thanks again, Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel Have a look at this http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=uKAl d5ikCHA.2708%40tkmsftngp11&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522Microsoft%2BAc cess%2Bcan%27t%2Bretrieve%2Bthe%2Bvalue%2Bof%2Bthis%2Bproperty%2522%2Bex cel%2Boffice%2Blinks%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm% 3DuKAld5ikCHA.2708%2540tkmsftngp11%26rnum%3D1 It suggests you may have null in a numeric field or calculatedd control http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/attac-cg/ look in the Code and Design Tips area under the Reports section. There is a method discussed there as to how to modify your query to accept vb param at run time and still use TransferSpreadsheet or OutputTo. Jennifer Gross wrote: >Hi Group, > >I am having a problem on certain reports using Office Links > Analyze it >with Excel. Here is the error message I have received: >---------------- >Microsoft Access can't retrieve the value of this property. > >The property isn't available from the view in which you're running the >macro or Visual Basic code, or Microsoft Access encountered an error >while retrieving the value of the property. >To see the valid settings for this property, search the Help index for >the name of the property. >---------------- > >I've searched Microsoft's knowledge base as well as the archives with no >luck. > >I am able to use Office Links > Excel successfully on the report's >underlying query. There is nothing unusual going on in these reports, a >little sorting, a little grouping. The only calculated controls are >totals in either the group or report footers. > >Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, > >Jennifer Gross >databasics >+ 01 (805) 480-1921 >www.databasicsdesign.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 6 13:53:33 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:53:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <409A89AD.3010305@shaw.ca> That's kind of an old version of Excel. It is Excel 95 that you are calling. You could try 8.0 See SAMPLE: ExcelADO Demonstrates How to Use ADO to Read and Write Data in Excel Workbooks http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;278973 or http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/OLEDB_Providers.htm#OLEDBProviderForMicrosoftJetExcel http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/ODBC_DSNLess.htm#ODBCDriverForExcel Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi all > >If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >error above. >The wizard can not accept a password. > >I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with > > PWD=mypassword; > >so it becomes > > Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls > >but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >error. > >Is this possible? > >/gustav > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 14:01:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:01:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B92@main2.marlow.com> Um ya, CDO requires a mail server, but what do you think Outlook uses to send mail? Magic? LOL. CDO is the core of MAPI. You can use MAPI, but if you know how to use CDO, it's a little more flexible. I sent Francisco a VB program, off list that displays the file folder sizes of the .pst files you use in Outlook. Does exchange folders too. It all uses CDO. If you want, I'd be more then happy to send that to you offlist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object OK, I'll bite, what the heck is CDO. I went out and found a bunch of stuff on Google but from what I can find it requires a "mail server". Will this work for my system here at the home office or clients with just a workgroup? You realize that the response you just gave is one of those "annoying" pretty much useless things. If you're going to claim you use some wonderful whizbang widget you could at least provide a link to get started in understanding how in the world I can use your wonderful whizbang widget. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 6 14:04:49 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:04:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are already there. On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the if statement and added a parameter to go with it: Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) has become Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an error: Compile Error ... Expected: = What in the hey am I doing wrong?! Thanks for the help...now and in the past! I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! btw...A97 John W Clark From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 14:15:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:15:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B94@main2.marlow.com> Are you calling this function from other places? If so, did you add that argument in? You can add parameters to existing functions, and not have to backtrack to old 'users' of that function, by putting the arguments at the end, and use the OPTIONAL flag before the parameter. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are already there. On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the if statement and added a parameter to go with it: Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) has become Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an error: Compile Error ... Expected: = What in the hey am I doing wrong?! Thanks for the help...now and in the past! I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! btw...A97 John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 15:26:04 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:26:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82AD@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 15:35:28 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no return value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 6 17:04:32 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:04:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BB@TAPPEEXCH01> Nothing odd about it. And it's far from the "wrong" syntax. When you place parenthesis around an expression, you are telling the compiler to evaluate the expression and pass its value, not its reference to the called routine. Private Sub Sub1() Dim strThis As String strThis = "Hello, World!" Sub2 strThis Debug.Print strThis End Sub Private Sub Sub2(strArg As String) strArg = strArg & " How are you?" End Sub What result would you expect when you run Sub1? Answer: Hello, World! How are you? This is because implicitly VB(A) passes arguments by reference (a pointer to a memory location) instead of by value (a copy of the memory location's contents). Now... changing the calling syntax slightly: Private Sub Sub1() Dim strThis As String strThis = "Hello, World!" Sub2 (strThis) 'You could also use Call Sub2((strThis)) Debug.Print strThis End Sub Your are the compiler evaluates the expression, and passes its value to Sub2. Your result is Hello, World!. BTW, the same result can be achieved by using the ByVal keyword in your argument definition i.e. Private Sub Sub2(ByVal strArg As String) I follow this practice religously in all of my code, to avoid accidentally overwriting the calling routine's variable contents. Many developers don't bother. Don't know why. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no return value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 17:08:56 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:08:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: A 22-inch textbox? On 22-inch paper? Somehow, I'm having trouble envisioning what you're doing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Without the control and using only a text box with plain text, it does not print more than 22 inches. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You're on your on there. I wouldn't touch that design with a barge pole for any amount of money! You aren't really talking about the limitations of the report, you're talking about the limitations of the memo field control. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 17:26:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:26:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Group, My latest department deployment has tested fine with one exception. How can I force UNC naming for the linked tables? I looked over some published relinking code, but was not prepared to drop in any code that could possibly involve user intervention. Mark From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 18:39:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:39:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B92@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Yes, please send it. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Um ya, CDO requires a mail server, but what do you think Outlook uses to send mail? Magic? LOL. CDO is the core of MAPI. You can use MAPI, but if you know how to use CDO, it's a little more flexible. I sent Francisco a VB program, off list that displays the file folder sizes of the .pst files you use in Outlook. Does exchange folders too. It all uses CDO. If you want, I'd be more then happy to send that to you offlist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object OK, I'll bite, what the heck is CDO. I went out and found a bunch of stuff on Google but from what I can find it requires a "mail server". Will this work for my system here at the home office or clients with just a workgroup? You realize that the response you just gave is one of those "annoying" pretty much useless things. If you're going to claim you use some wonderful whizbang widget you could at least provide a link to get started in understanding how in the world I can use your wonderful whizbang widget. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 18:39:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:39:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! In-Reply-To: <20040506132944.2066544880.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: He was one of my favorite reads back when - every month. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! John, Did you ever read Jerry Pournelle's "The User's Guide"? It's a compendium of his early Byte columns. Your missive put me in mind of it. Regards, Steve Erbach Neenah, WI "PRACTICAL HOMEMAKER TIP -- Always keep an open box of baking soda in your refrigerator. That way, when people come to your house to visit, you can say: 'Would you care for some cold baking soda?' Then they will leave." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lytlenj at yahoo.com Thu May 6 20:13:49 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: <20040507011349.43972.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> I use the relinker but have a table in the front end that holds the UNC back end path, then a form(which is opened hidden when the database is opened) text box which contains the UNC path and have the relinker read from the form. That way I can quickly change the BE path when I move from development to production versions. I hope I have explained this well enough. Nancy From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Thu May 6 20:24:34 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:24:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Suppress Sub reports with conditional IF Message-ID: I am writing a form letter via a report, (mail merge did not work for this one). I need to suppress or show two sub reports on this report depending on the value of a field. There is a field on the Report named Status which is either refused or approved. If it is approved I need to show Appsubrep and if it is refused Groundsrefrep. As they both contain text as well as Data just placing them on top of one another and letting the one with data show won't work in this case. Should I do this in the Onload of the form using a conditional IF on the visible property of the sub reports? Does anyone have a better/more appropriate solution? All help greatly appreciated. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu May 6 20:41:18 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:41:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Suppress Sub reports with conditional IF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040507014115.FHCV16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If there a subreport for each record or group? Or this a one-time choice? Susan H. I am writing a form letter via a report, (mail merge did not work for this one). I need to suppress or show two sub reports on this report depending on the value of a field. There is a field on the Report named Status which is either refused or approved. If it is approved I need to show Appsubrep and if it is refused Groundsrefrep. As they both contain text as well as Data just placing them on top of one another and letting the one with data show won't work in this case. Should I do this in the Onload of the form using a conditional IF on the visible property of the sub reports? Does anyone have a better/more appropriate solution? All help greatly appreciated. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Thu May 6 21:48:17 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:48:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: AccessD Digest, Vol 15, Issue 13 Message-ID: Susan, There are a few reports which use these sub reports but the reports all need this IF. There can be as many as 60 items in the sub reports but each sub report is only shown based on the answer.The first sub report lists the conditions of approval for the authority, so it is only needed if status is approved. The second sub lists grounds for refusal.They are needed only once in each report.I hope that is what you were asking Connie If there a subreport for each record or group? Or this a one-time choice? Susan H. I am writing a form letter via a report, (mail merge did not work for this one). I need to suppress or show two sub reports on this report depending on the value of a field. There is a field on the Report named Status which is either refused or approved. If it is approved I need to show Appsubrep and if it is refused Groundsrefrep. As they both contain text as well as Data just placing them on top of one another and letting the one with data show won't work in this case. Should I do this in the Onload of the form using a conditional IF on the visible property of the sub reports? Does anyone have a better/more appropriate solution? All help greatly appreciated. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 6 22:33:46 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:33:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <9708125.1083836583482.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: Hi Paul: Use this line at the server: 'http://localhost/MyWebSiteDirectory/index.asp'. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Had to reconfigure IIS first, managed to fumble my way round it....now it works if you use it from the server, but still tries to download when used from a workstation. Message date : May 06 2004, 10:39 AM >From : "MarkH" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System Enter Username & Password Below COLOR="BLACK">Username: SIZE="30"> COLOR="BLACK">Password: NAME="Password" SIZE="30"> TYPE=Submit NAME="Submit" VALUE="Submit"> checklogin.asp code is below: Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 6 22:53:58 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:53:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F82@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Message-ID: Hi Mike: Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases sends it's work to the default printer. It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Thu May 6 23:00:03 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:30:03 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: I haven't read through all the replies, however the first half-dozen or so didn't mention it... Anwyay, rather than using append queried etc, you can simply set the seed through code, just as you would with SQL Server. I think the keyword is AUTOINCREMENT or COUNTER or something. A quick google search should find the answer. (not sure why you'd want to do this, as a PK shouldn't generally be seen or used 'externally') Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 9:55 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 02:36:38 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:36:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Message-ID: <17967545.1083915398793.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> James, Thanks works like a charm, hope I can help you with something one day. Paul Hartland Message date : May 06 2004, 06:19 PM >From : "James Barash" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Paul Try something like this: You just need to add the script code in the form definition. It works in IE and Netscape. I don't know about other browsers. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Alun.Garraway at otto.de Fri May 7 03:43:26 2004 From: Alun.Garraway at otto.de (Garraway, Alun) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:43:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter are pressed? Message-ID: hallo, in A2K, winNT how do I stop the the properties window (for the object with focus on a form) from showing when the user presses "Alt" & "Enter" ?? TIA :-) alun From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Fri May 7 03:54:49 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:54:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter arepressed? References: Message-ID: <000501c43410$f6473780$3f412d3e@jester> Alun, in form design, propertie sheet for the form, on the other tab, put 'design view only' at allow design changes. Then the properties window will not popup. HTH Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garraway, Alun" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter arepressed? > hallo, > > in A2K, winNT > > how do I stop the the properties window (for the object with focus on a form) > from showing when the user presses "Alt" & "Enter" ?? > > TIA :-) > > alun > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Alun.Garraway at otto.de Fri May 7 04:45:11 2004 From: Alun.Garraway at otto.de (Garraway, Alun) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:45:11 +0200 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enterarepressed? Message-ID: BINGO :-)) thanks Bert-Jan alun -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Bert-Jan Brinkhuis Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Mai 2004 10:55 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enterarepressed? Alun, in form design, propertie sheet for the form, on the other tab, put 'design view only' at allow design changes. Then the properties window will not popup. HTH Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garraway, Alun" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter arepressed? > hallo, > > in A2K, winNT > > how do I stop the the properties window (for the object with focus on a form) > from showing when the user presses "Alt" & "Enter" ?? > > TIA :-) > > alun > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 05:19:46 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:19:46 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] List Queries Message-ID: <151827.1083925186321.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, Gone totally brain dead, I want to print a list of all my queries in a database (500+) I only want the names and Documenter don't cater for this. So has anyone got any sample code for the QueryDef object that I could probably get a list that way ? Thanks in advance Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 05:32:17 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:32:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] ignore last email about list queries Message-ID: <17793726.1083925937776.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, Please ignore my last post, brain has kicked into gear for some reason. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 04:05:29 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:05:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file In-Reply-To: <409A89AD.3010305@shaw.ca> References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> <409A89AD.3010305@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <455075958.20040507110529@cactus.dk> Hi Marty > That's kind of an old version of Excel. It is Excel 95 that you are > calling. You could try 8.0 That's what Access 2000 writes when you link worksheet or named range as a table. I don't think it matters; I tried with 8.0 but no change. > See SAMPLE: ExcelADO Demonstrates How to Use ADO to Read and Write Data > in Excel Workbooks > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;278973 > or > http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/OLEDB_Providers.htm#OLEDBProviderForMicrosoftJetExcel > http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/ODBC_DSNLess.htm#ODBCDriverForExcel Thanks. Located this: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;211378 which tells a) to remove password (clever suggestion) b) to have Excel open while linking from Access However, following b), Access (97 or 2000) crashes using either code or the wizard, so at the best this wouldn't work reliably. This leaves a) as the clever solution ... /gustav >>If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >>password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >>error above. >>The wizard can not accept a password. >> >>I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with >> >> PWD=mypassword; >> >>so it becomes >> >> Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls >> >>but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >>error. >> >>Is this possible? >> >>/gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 04:16:25 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:16:25 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <255731160.20040507111625@cactus.dk> Hi Scott Run out? You should have 253 addresses so it's quite a server farm you have running ... Use a DHCP server. It's build-in in most routers and as services on Windows, NetWare and Linux servers or as a Linux stand alone option. Browse Google and you'll find piles of info. /gustav PS: Couldn't on of our brave moderators run a promotion for our OT tech-list? Lots of recent stuff should have lived there. > Sorry about the OT nature of this message. > I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so > that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 05:14:11 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:14:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Data mining and risk prediction Message-ID: <1299197034.20040507121411@cactus.dk> Hi those of you interested in data mining, risk calculation and statistics. Browsing the DB2 Magazine I noticed this very interesting and well written article which is available on-line as well (one-line URL): http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=FUG5YSB0YPZKAQSNDBNCKHQ?articleID=18900776 /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 05:21:51 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:21:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199657927.20040507122151@cactus.dk> Hi Jim and Mike I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of the report. Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. /gustav > Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured > to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the > development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases > sends it's work to the default printer. > It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Everyone, > I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out > different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go > to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes > in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to > go back to the default printer. > Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the > label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct > the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 07:02:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:02:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13015709348.20040507140243@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > My latest department deployment has tested fine with one exception. How can > I force UNC naming for the linked tables? I looked over some published > relinking code, but was not prepared to drop in any code that could possibly > involve user intervention. This may not be that easy but have a look here: http://www.mvps.org/vb/samples.htm#UncName For remote drive letters only, this module could be used. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL As Long = &H1& Private Declare Function WNetGetUniversalName Lib "mpr.dll" Alias "WNetGetUniversalNameA" ( _ ByVal lpLocalPath As String, _ ByVal dwInfoLevel As Long, _ ByRef lpBuffer As Any, _ ByRef lpBufferSize As Long) _ As Long Private Type UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO lpUniversalName As String * &H400& End Type Public Function GetUniversalPath( _ ByVal strDrivePath As String) _ As String ' Get UNC path from remote drive letter or drive letter and file name. ' Empty string is returned for local or non-mapped drive letters. ' Remote path is *not* validated except for the drive letter. ' ' Example: ' s:\docs\letter.txt ' ' may return ' ' \\FS1\SYS\DATA\docs\letter.txt ' ' 2002-03-25. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim typBuffer As UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO Dim lngBuffer As Long Dim strPath As String ' Obtain needed buffer size. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, 0, lngBuffer) ' Retrieve UNC info. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, typBuffer, lngBuffer) ' Extract UNC path from mixed buffer. strPath = typBuffer.lpUniversalName strPath = Mid$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) + 1) strPath = Left$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) - 1) GetUniversalPath = strPath End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 07:23:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:23:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10616959226.20040507142333@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 ' Wait forever. Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF ' The state of the specified object is signaled. Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 ' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hObject As Long) _ As Long ' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following occurs: ' - The specified object is in the signaled state. ' - The time-out interval elapses. ' ' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in milliseconds. ' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state is ' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s state ' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s time-out ' interval never elapses. ' ' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As a ' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. The ' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. ' ' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out ' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the process ' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with your ' processing. ' ' DOS Applications: ' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes ' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app that ' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". ' ' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, vbNormalFocus) Function ShellWait( _ ByVal strCommand As String) _ As Boolean Dim lngPid As Long Dim lngHnd As Long Dim lngReturn As Long Dim booSuccess As Boolean If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) If lngPid <> 0 Then ' Get a handle to the shelled process. lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the handle. If lngHnd <> 0 Then lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) CloseHandle (lngHnd) booSuccess = True End If MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" End If End If ShellWait = booSuccess End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri May 7 07:37:46 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:37:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086DD7C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4D5@ADGSERVER> Hi all, I am creating a flat file from access to be used in mail merge initiated by access. I basically create the flat file then load a pre-configured mail merge document and do the mail merge. The problem that I cannot figure out is how to have the column names in the flat file but not have them show up as the first record. Here's my relevant code: Set objWord = New Word.Application Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(strMergeDoc) objWord.Application.Visible = True With objDoc.MailMerge .MainDocumentType = wdFormLetters '.OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True '.opendatasource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True .destination = wdSendToNewDocument .Execute End With I tried using OpenHeaderSource to add a header file that has the column names in it, but it seems to ignore it. I added the following line to try to use the OpenHeaderSource function: .OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True Anyone have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'm sure it is some really easy, but U just can't see it. I did look through the archives, but did not see what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Bobby From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 07:51:09 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:51:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > My latest department deployment has tested fine with one exception. How can > I force UNC naming for the linked tables? I looked over some published > relinking code, but was not prepared to drop in any code that could possibly > involve user intervention. This may not be that easy but have a look here: http://www.mvps.org/vb/samples.htm#UncName For remote drive letters only, this module could be used. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL As Long = &H1& Private Declare Function WNetGetUniversalName Lib "mpr.dll" Alias "WNetGetUniversalNameA" ( _ ByVal lpLocalPath As String, _ ByVal dwInfoLevel As Long, _ ByRef lpBuffer As Any, _ ByRef lpBufferSize As Long) _ As Long Private Type UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO lpUniversalName As String * &H400& End Type Public Function GetUniversalPath( _ ByVal strDrivePath As String) _ As String ' Get UNC path from remote drive letter or drive letter and file name. ' Empty string is returned for local or non-mapped drive letters. ' Remote path is *not* validated except for the drive letter. ' ' Example: ' s:\docs\letter.txt ' ' may return ' ' \\FS1\SYS\DATA\docs\letter.txt ' ' 2002-03-25. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim typBuffer As UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO Dim lngBuffer As Long Dim strPath As String ' Obtain needed buffer size. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, 0, lngBuffer) ' Retrieve UNC info. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, typBuffer, lngBuffer) ' Extract UNC path from mixed buffer. strPath = typBuffer.lpUniversalName strPath = Mid$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) + 1) strPath = Left$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) - 1) GetUniversalPath = strPath End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 07:53:57 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Thank you, I'll focus on this approach. It seems to be what I'm after. If I hit a stumbling block, I'll let you know;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lytle [mailto:lytlenj at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I use the relinker but have a table in the front end that holds the UNC back end path, then a form(which is opened hidden when the database is opened) text box which contains the UNC path and have the relinker read from the form. That way I can quickly change the BE path when I move from development to production versions. I hope I have explained this well enough. Nancy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 7 08:59:01 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:59:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Join The Tech List - was Expanding network IP addresses. Message-ID: <20040507125859.40F0625DD66@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Gustav's quite right. We have set up a tech list to discuss technical-but-not-Access questions like this. If would be really good if a) more people joined that list (see instructions on web site) and then b) we used it for its purpose and took this kind of thread off the main list. We can't force anyone to sign up to the tech list, but if you think that you might ever want help from people here on subjects such as networks, hardware, email software, etc, etc, etc then you should join up. Equally if you have good knowledge to share on such subjects then please join. I know that people email such OT threads to the main list because the tech list doesn't have as wide a coverage, but that would easily be solved if you'd all just sign up now. It's not hard - her's the link even http://www.databaseadvisors.com/lists/whatandhow.htm Just go there, go down to the Tech List and do what it says. Please. Now. Do it. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk (Well I tried Gustav) --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. Date: 07/05/04 12:26 > > Hi Scott > > Run out? You should have 253 addresses so it's quite a server farm you > have running ... > > Use a DHCP server. It's build-in in most routers and as services on > Windows, NetWare and Linux servers or as a Linux stand alone option. > > Browse Google and you'll find piles of info. > > /gustav > > PS: Couldn't on of our brave moderators run a promotion for our OT > tech-list? Lots of recent stuff should have lived there. > > > > Sorry about the OT nature of this message. > > > I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so > > that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. > > > Scott Marcus > > TSS Technologies, Inc. > > marcus at tsstech.com > > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 08:05:12 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. My current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying to avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are technically in another department and on-loan to us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 ' Wait forever. Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF ' The state of the specified object is signaled. Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 ' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hObject As Long) _ As Long ' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following occurs: ' - The specified object is in the signaled state. ' - The time-out interval elapses. ' ' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in milliseconds. ' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state is ' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s state ' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s time-out ' interval never elapses. ' ' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As a ' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. The ' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. ' ' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out ' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the process ' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with your ' processing. ' ' DOS Applications: ' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes ' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app that ' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". ' ' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, vbNormalFocus) Function ShellWait( _ ByVal strCommand As String) _ As Boolean Dim lngPid As Long Dim lngHnd As Long Dim lngReturn As Long Dim booSuccess As Boolean If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) If lngPid <> 0 Then ' Get a handle to the shelled process. lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the handle. If lngHnd <> 0 Then lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) CloseHandle (lngHnd) booSuccess = True End If MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" End If End If ShellWait = booSuccess End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 08:05:00 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:05:00 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3119446913.20040507150500@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? /gustav > Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, > but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would > like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable > with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri May 7 08:10:01 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:10:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086E317@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4D6@ADGSERVER> Should this have gone to the dba-tech list? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions Hi all, I am creating a flat file from access to be used in mail merge initiated by access. I basically create the flat file then load a pre-configured mail merge document and do the mail merge. The problem that I cannot figure out is how to have the column names in the flat file but not have them show up as the first record. Here's my relevant code: Set objWord = New Word.Application Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(strMergeDoc) objWord.Application.Visible = True With objDoc.MailMerge .MainDocumentType = wdFormLetters '.OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True '.opendatasource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True .destination = wdSendToNewDocument .Execute End With I tried using OpenHeaderSource to add a header file that has the column names in it, but it seems to ignore it. I added the following line to try to use the OpenHeaderSource function: .OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True Anyone have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'm sure it is some really easy, but U just can't see it. I did look through the archives, but did not see what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri May 7 08:11:23 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:11:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CBF@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 08:23:54 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:23:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have existing relinking code already in place...I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter mappings, I get an error. What I was looking for was an approach that (1)mimics published relinking code, such as http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, (2)forces UNC naming, yet (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? /gustav > Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, > but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would > like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable > with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri May 7 08:41:15 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:41:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions SOLVED In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086E317@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4D7@ADGSERVER> I'm not sure why, but I was able to get it to work properly by setting up the MM document so that it was not a true MM document. That is, it had the desired merge fields, but there was no source set up in the Word document. Then I used the OpenDataSource function to set the data source. Note that the data source has a single header line in it. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions Hi all, I am creating a flat file from access to be used in mail merge initiated by access. I basically create the flat file then load a pre-configured mail merge document and do the mail merge. The problem that I cannot figure out is how to have the column names in the flat file but not have them show up as the first record. Here's my relevant code: Set objWord = New Word.Application Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(strMergeDoc) objWord.Application.Visible = True With objDoc.MailMerge .MainDocumentType = wdFormLetters '.OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True '.opendatasource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True .destination = wdSendToNewDocument .Execute End With I tried using OpenHeaderSource to add a header file that has the column names in it, but it seems to ignore it. I added the following line to try to use the OpenHeaderSource function: .OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True Anyone have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'm sure it is some really easy, but U just can't see it. I did look through the archives, but did not see what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 08:46:49 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:46:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412784@bross.quiznos.net> There are other ways, in my opinion this is the best though, except for the breaking out of the creation of the paramter and asigning it in another line, you can set the value of the paramter when you create it. .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25, RANum) -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Joe Rojas [mailto:JRojas at tnco-inc.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 08:56:34 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:56:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BC@TAPPEEXCH01> One of the coolest features about ADO is that you can call stored procedures just like built-in methods: With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_DeleteRAs RANum End With If you want to open up a recordset based off of a stored procedure, you can do the following: Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = New Recordset With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_GetCustomerList MyAcctNo, rs End With -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? There are other ways, in my opinion this is the best though, except for the breaking out of the creation of the paramter and asigning it in another line, you can set the value of the paramter when you create it. .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25, RANum) -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Joe Rojas [mailto:JRojas at tnco-inc.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 7 09:02:53 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:02:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82B8@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I agree fully with your comment about putting parentheses around an expression resulting in the compiler being forced to evaluate the expression as a different object - it's kind of like a Cast in C/C++, but this is not the same thing as the "wrong" syntax I was talking about. When you call Sub2 with it's argument in parentheses the compiler knows it's still just an argument to the sub. That's why it puts a space between the Sub name and the opening parenthesis. But when you call a *Function* using this syntax Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) the compiler does not put a space between the function name and the opening Parenthesis because it knows that it's dealing with a special variety of function call, one that does not use the return value. Or to put it another way, using Call tells the compiler to treat the routine called as a Sub not a Function, but it requires the use of parentheses. Also, in Access land at least, I do recall reading (though of course I cannot turn up the reference right now) that if you call a sub or function in an external module (a library mde for example) using just the routine's name then the whole module is loaded into memory, but if you use Call SomeSub in that case just the routine you use gets loaded into memory. Something like that anyway. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [SMTP:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > Nothing odd about it. And it's far from the "wrong" syntax. > > When you place parenthesis around an expression, you are telling the > compiler to evaluate the expression and pass its value, not its reference > to > the called routine. > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 strThis > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Private Sub Sub2(strArg As String) > > strArg = strArg & " How are you?" > > End Sub > > What result would you expect when you run Sub1? > Answer: Hello, World! How are you? > > This is because implicitly VB(A) passes arguments by reference (a pointer > to > a memory location) instead of by value (a copy of the memory location's > contents). > > Now... > changing the calling syntax slightly: > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 (strThis) 'You could also use Call Sub2((strThis)) > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Your are the compiler evaluates the expression, and passes its value to > Sub2. > Your result is Hello, World!. > > BTW, the same result can be achieved by using the ByVal keyword in your > argument definition > i.e. Private Sub Sub2(ByVal strArg As String) > > I follow this practice religously in all of my code, to avoid accidentally > overwriting the calling routine's variable contents. Many developers > don't > bother. Don't know why. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > > > >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with > only > one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << > > I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never > taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the > "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no > return > value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, > I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) > > > > Mark > > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 7 09:04:20 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:04:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82B9@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Drew, If you wouldn't mind I'd like to take a peek at your code too. Thanks, Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > Yes, please send it. Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:01 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > > Um ya, CDO requires a mail server, but what do you think Outlook uses to > send mail? Magic? LOL. > > CDO is the core of MAPI. You can use MAPI, but if you know how to use > CDO, > it's a little more flexible. > > I sent Francisco a VB program, off list that displays the file folder > sizes > of the .pst files you use in Outlook. Does exchange folders too. It all > uses CDO. If you want, I'd be more then happy to send that to you > offlist. > > Drew > From pedro at plex.nl Fri May 7 09:02:34 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:02:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access Message-ID: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> Hello group, for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client server that is present in Reflection emulation software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has changed in the Vba code with the transfer. I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this behaviour before? Pedro Janssen Cytologist From j.frederick at att.net Fri May 7 09:11:30 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:11:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What we call the "bubble book" has code to do this. I do it to load up-to-date versions of forms mdbs and transfer control to them. Basically, the code is: Call Shell(stAppName,1) DoCmd.Quit -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. My current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying to avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are technically in another department and on-loan to us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 ' Wait forever. Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF ' The state of the specified object is signaled. Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 ' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hObject As Long) _ As Long ' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following occurs: ' - The specified object is in the signaled state. ' - The time-out interval elapses. ' ' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in milliseconds. ' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state is ' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s state ' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s time-out ' interval never elapses. ' ' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As a ' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. The ' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. ' ' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out ' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the process ' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with your ' processing. ' ' DOS Applications: ' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes ' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app that ' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". ' ' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, vbNormalFocus) Function ShellWait( _ ByVal strCommand As String) _ As Boolean Dim lngPid As Long Dim lngHnd As Long Dim lngReturn As Long Dim booSuccess As Boolean If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) If lngPid <> 0 Then ' Get a handle to the shelled process. lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the handle. If lngHnd <> 0 Then lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) CloseHandle (lngHnd) booSuccess = True End If MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" End If End If ShellWait = booSuccess End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From j.frederick at att.net Fri May 7 09:15:07 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:15:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> Message-ID: This doesn't sound like an FTP problem. Either the code creating the txt file is leaving out column delimiters or the CRLF or your import spec is looking for different delimiters. Try opening the txt file using Notepad to see what it looks like. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Pedro Janssen Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:03 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access Hello group, for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client server that is present in Reflection emulation software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has changed in the Vba code with the transfer. I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this behaviour before? Pedro Janssen Cytologist -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 09:15:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> References: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <3423698456.20040507161552@cactus.dk> Hi Pedro Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. /gustav > Hello group, > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client server that is present in Reflection emulation > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this behaviour before? > Pedro Janssen > Cytologist From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 09:20:38 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:20:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Report Is Landscape But Printing Portrait Message-ID: <31356570.1083939638798.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, We have Windows XP desktops along with Office XP, I have two reports that when I designed them I set the page setup to Landscape and as you would expect when you open them they are displayed as Landscape. However when you choose to print them (by clicking the printer icon) they print out as Portrait!!!!!!!!!!!. Has anyone else ever encountered this problem, if so can someone please give me the answer, as these reports are required by the end of today (a typical Friday) .. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri May 7 09:22:28 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:22:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c4343e$bd4c08b0$6401a8c0@COA3> ? By "no user intervention", then you are linking before distribution? If you are setting the links, then, in Linked Table Manager, browse to the BE by first going to Network Neighborhood, then find the server\share\folder. Then, your FE will have UNC links. If the user is going to select the BE, then you will need the re-linking code, plus the API call to MPR.dll as suggested earlier, to convert the mapped drive to UNC ... You should probably use API for CommonDialog for this method as well, to avoid ocx issues. Hth Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have existing relinking code already in place...I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter mappings, I get an error. What I was looking for was an approach that (1)mimics published relinking code, such as http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, (2)forces UNC naming, yet (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? /gustav > Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, > but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I > would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not > comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Fri May 7 09:26:18 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:26:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] List Queries Message-ID: Just do a query on MSysObjects table SELECT MSysObjects.Type, MSysObjects.Name FROM MSysObjects WHERE (((MSysObjects.Type)=5)) ORDER BY MSysObjects.Name; Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] List Queries >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:19:46 +0200 (CEST) > >To all, >Gone totally brain dead, I want to print a list of all my queries in a >database (500+) I only want the names and Documenter don't cater for this. >So has anyone got any sample code for the QueryDef object that I could >probably get a list that way ? >Thanks in advance >Paul > >-- > >Whatever you Wanadoo: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > >This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Fri May 7 09:31:32 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:31:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report Is Landscape But Printing Portrait Message-ID: Paul, I'm not aware of this problem in XP, but in Access 2000, the answer was to turn off Auto Correct in Access, and make sure you have up-to-date service packs installed. You might try these and see if it helps. Steve -----Paul Hartland's Original Message----- To all, We have Windows XP desktops along with Office XP, I have two reports that when I designed them I set the page setup to Landscape and as you would expect when you open them they are displayed as Landscape. However when you choose to print them (by clicking the printer icon) they print out as Portrait!!!!!!!!!!!. Has anyone else ever encountered this problem, if so can someone please give me the answer, as these reports are required by the end of today (a typical Friday)..... Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 09:32:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:32:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8224678876.20040507163212@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I > need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table > manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would >> like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable >> with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. From garykjos at hotmail.com Fri May 7 09:42:01 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:42:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access Message-ID: Hi Pedro, Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a transfer TO the Unix world though. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: Gustav Brock >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > >Hi Pedro > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > >/gustav > > > > Hello group, > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this >behaviour before? > > > Pedro Janssen > > Cytologist > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 09:44:59 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:44:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BD@TAPPEEXCH01> You could also call the function just like a Sub. SeeDateInfo True, 1 Just wanted to clarify the confusion of parenthesis usage for others who thought that there was some special rule for single argument functions. In actuality, the parentheses serve a completely different purpose, and have nothing to do with the calling syntax. And for the ultimate in code obfuscation, you could also call your function as SeeDateInfo (2 > 1), (2 - 1) Never heard about the external module rule with the Call statement. Interesting. I will have to look into that. -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function I agree fully with your comment about putting parentheses around an expression resulting in the compiler being forced to evaluate the expression as a different object - it's kind of like a Cast in C/C++, but this is not the same thing as the "wrong" syntax I was talking about. When you call Sub2 with it's argument in parentheses the compiler knows it's still just an argument to the sub. That's why it puts a space between the Sub name and the opening parenthesis. But when you call a *Function* using this syntax Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) the compiler does not put a space between the function name and the opening Parenthesis because it knows that it's dealing with a special variety of function call, one that does not use the return value. Or to put it another way, using Call tells the compiler to treat the routine called as a Sub not a Function, but it requires the use of parentheses. Also, in Access land at least, I do recall reading (though of course I cannot turn up the reference right now) that if you call a sub or function in an external module (a library mde for example) using just the routine's name then the whole module is loaded into memory, but if you use Call SomeSub in that case just the routine you use gets loaded into memory. Something like that anyway. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [SMTP:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > Nothing odd about it. And it's far from the "wrong" syntax. > > When you place parenthesis around an expression, you are telling the > compiler to evaluate the expression and pass its value, not its reference > to > the called routine. > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 strThis > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Private Sub Sub2(strArg As String) > > strArg = strArg & " How are you?" > > End Sub > > What result would you expect when you run Sub1? > Answer: Hello, World! How are you? > > This is because implicitly VB(A) passes arguments by reference (a pointer > to > a memory location) instead of by value (a copy of the memory location's > contents). > > Now... > changing the calling syntax slightly: > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 (strThis) 'You could also use Call Sub2((strThis)) > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Your are the compiler evaluates the expression, and passes its value to > Sub2. > Your result is Hello, World!. > > BTW, the same result can be achieved by using the ByVal keyword in your > argument definition > i.e. Private Sub Sub2(ByVal strArg As String) > > I follow this practice religously in all of my code, to avoid accidentally > overwriting the calling routine's variable contents. Many developers > don't > bother. Don't know why. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > > > >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with > only > one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << > > I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never > taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the > "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no > return > value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, > I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) > > > > Mark > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 09:45:21 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:45:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I > need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table > manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would >> like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable >> with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri May 7 09:48:03 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:48:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CC0@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Ah! This is what I was looking for! Thanks for the info. Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my example below? Thanks! JR -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? One of the coolest features about ADO is that you can call stored procedures just like built-in methods: With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_DeleteRAs RANum End With If you want to open up a recordset based off of a stored procedure, you can do the following: Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = New Recordset With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_GetCustomerList MyAcctNo, rs End With -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? There are other ways, in my opinion this is the best though, except for the breaking out of the creation of the paramter and asigning it in another line, you can set the value of the paramter when you create it. .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25, RANum) -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Joe Rojas [mailto:JRojas at tnco-inc.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 09:49:41 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:49:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Reports Printing Portrait When Set To Landscape Message-ID: <5713199.1083941381471.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, Don?t know why I tried this but I did ..I have just designed two new reports that are required by the end of today, they display as landscape and when you print them using the Printer icon they print as portrait, however if you use File/Print they print as landscape. I tried turning off Auto Correct but that didn?t help unfortunately, but thank you for the suggestion anyway. Has anyone any ideas on what?s going on here ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From pharold at proftesting.com Fri May 7 09:55:43 2004 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry Harold) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:55:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> I've had files from *nix machines where I had to open with something like WordPad, make one edit and when the file is closed the cr/lf's are saved as windows ascii cr/lf's, then the file can be opened and imported. Perry Harold -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access Hi Pedro, Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a transfer TO the Unix world though. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: Gustav Brock >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > >Hi Pedro > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > >/gustav > > > > Hello group, > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our > > hospital >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP >client >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp > > server >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system >and >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in > > unix >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist >anymore. Al >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this >behaviour before? > > > Pedro Janssen > > Cytologist > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri May 7 09:57:19 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:57:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c43443$9b41f220$6401a8c0@COA3> Linked Tabler Manager *WILL* show, and use, UNC if you go to Network Neighborhood first. It will NOT convert a mapped drive automatically. Can't say anything about your code w/o seeing it. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need > to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager > appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I >> would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not >> comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 09:58:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:58:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? In-Reply-To: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CC0@mercury.tnco-inc.com> References: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CC0@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: <726266409.20040507165840@cactus.dk> Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? From marcus at tsstech.com Fri May 7 10:11:30 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:11:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Cut and paste from a web page (needs some editing/rework)... Option Explicit Private Declare Function WNetGetConnection Lib _ "mpr.dll" Alias "WNetGetConnectionA" (ByVal _ lpszLocalName As String, ByVal _ lpszRemoteName As String, cbRemoteName As _ Long) As Long Private Const NO_ERROR = 0 Private Const ERROR_BAD_DEVICE = 1200& Private Const ERROR_NOT_CONNECTED = 2250& Private Const ERROR_MORE_DATA = 234 Private Const ERROR_CONNECTION_UNAVAIL = 1201& Private Const ERROR_NO_NETWORK = 1222& Private Const ERROR_EXTENDED_ERROR = 1208& Private Const ERROR_NO_NET_OR_BAD_PATH = 1203& Private Sub Form_Click() Dim d As Integer Dim sRet As String Dim Msg As String For d = Asc("C") To Asc("Z") sRet = DriveLetterToUNC(Chr(d)) If Len(sRet) Then Msg = Msg & Chr(d) & ": --> " _ & sRet & vbCrLf End If Next d MsgBox Msg, , "Mapped Drives..." End Sub Private Function DriveLetterToUNC(ByVal _ DriveLetter As String) As String Dim nRet As Long Dim Drv As String Dim Buffer As String Dim BufLen As Long Const MAX_PATH = 260 If Len(DriveLetter) Then ' massage input string and create buffer Drv = UCase(Left(DriveLetter, 1)) & ":" Buffer = Space(MAX_PATH) BufLen = Len(Buffer) ' attempt to get UNC info nRet = WNetGetConnection(Drv, Buffer, _ BufLen) If nRet = ERROR_MORE_DATA Then ' increase buffer and call again Buffer = Space(BufLen) nRet = WNetGetConnection(Drv, _ Buffer, BufLen) End If If nRet = NO_ERROR Then ' return UNC name by trimming at ' first null DriveLetterToUNC = Left(Buffer, _ InStr(Buffer, vbNullChar) - 1) Else ' optionally output debugging info... Select Case nRet Case ERROR_BAD_DEVICE Debug.Print Drv; " --> "; Debug.Print "The specified " & _ "device name is invalid." Case ERROR_NOT_CONNECTED Debug.Print Drv; " --> "; Debug.Print "This network " & _ "connection does not exist." Case ERROR_CONNECTION_UNAVAIL Debug.Print Drv; ' --> "; Debug.Print "The device is " & _ "not currently connected " & _ "but it is a remembered " & _ "connection." Case ERROR_NO_NETWORK Debug.Print "The network is " & _ "not present or not started." Case ERROR_MORE_DATA Debug.Print "Buffer is too " & _ "small!" Case ERROR_EXTENDED_ERROR Debug.Print "An error has " & _ "occurred, call " & _ "WNetGetLastError." Case Else Debug.Print "Unknown error " & _ "code: "; nRet End Select End If End If End Function Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I > need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table > manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would >> like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable >> with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 10:12:33 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:12:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412786@bross.quiznos.net> Also it doesn't rely on entering the parameters in any specific order. I mainly prefer that method for the same reason Gustav pointed out, it's much easier to read thus easier to debug when you have to or when you come back to the code a year down the road. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 10:17:04 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: >> If you are setting the links, then, in Linked Table Manager, browse to the BE by first going to Network Neighborhood, then find the server\share\folder. Then, your FE will have UNC links. << I completely apologize for missing this...problem solved...thank you. In my haste, I didn't make the distinction between the "Network Neighborhood" portion of Windows Explorer and the drive mapping portion of Windows Explorer. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Developer [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Linked Tabler Manager *WILL* show, and use, UNC if you go to Network Neighborhood first. It will NOT convert a mapped drive automatically. Can't say anything about your code w/o seeing it. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need > to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager > appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I >> would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not >> comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sdhi at kalamazoo.net Fri May 7 10:21:48 2004 From: sdhi at kalamazoo.net (Sheri Hixson) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:21:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> Message-ID: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> Thanks! Can't wait to see this! Sheri Hixson - SWMRIC Tollfree: 888-223-8634 Email: mailto:swmrichelp at swmrichelp.com Web: http://www.swmrichelp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Perry Harold Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ftp and access I've had files from *nix machines where I had to open with something like WordPad, make one edit and when the file is closed the cr/lf's are saved as windows ascii cr/lf's, then the file can be opened and imported. Perry Harold -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access Hi Pedro, Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a transfer TO the Unix world though. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: Gustav Brock >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > >Hi Pedro > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > >/gustav > > > > Hello group, > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our > > hospital >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP >client >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp > > server >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system >and >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in > > unix >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist >anymore. Al >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this >behaviour before? > > > Pedro Janssen > > Cytologist > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From susanj at sgmeet.com Fri May 7 11:02:45 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:02:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word In-Reply-To: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> References: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040507105157.03c35850@mail.sgmeet.com> Please bear with me if I'm not using the correct terminology here... We use ASP to capture information on entered our web pages into SQL. We then use that information in preparing materials for distribution. We're looking into ways to also capture formatting that would be 'read' by Word once it's merged - ie. bold, italics, etc. I'm having trouble finding anything in Help in Word or Access that would change Susan to having the word bolded and the formatting information removed. Any thoughts? Am I missing something simple? Is this harder than I think it should be? Thanks so much! Susan From pedro at plex.nl Fri May 7 11:17:51 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:17:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access References: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <003d01c4344e$f6a098f0$fcc581d5@pedro> after opening in an texteditor, do an edit and saving it, i couldn't import it normally in access. I had to copy the data in an empty texteditor file and then save it as textfile before i could import it. The problem is that when opening the file in unix the text is in collumns. after the ftp transfer the text isn't anymore. The strange thing is that nothing changed in the way of handeling these files, and suddenly the problem occurs. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Hixson" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] ftp and access > Thanks! Can't wait to see this! > > Sheri Hixson - SWMRIC > Tollfree: 888-223-8634 > Email: mailto:swmrichelp at swmrichelp.com > Web: http://www.swmrichelp.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Perry Harold > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:56 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] ftp and access > > > I've had files from *nix machines where I had to open with something like > WordPad, make one edit and when the file is closed the cr/lf's are saved as > windows ascii cr/lf's, then the file can be opened and imported. > > Perry Harold > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:42 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access > > > Hi Pedro, > > Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only > Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. > Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special > characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to > > play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. > > I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a > .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a > transfer TO the Unix world though. > > Gary Kjos > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Gustav Brock > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access > >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > > > >Hi Pedro > > > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line > >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > > > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > > > >/gustav > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our > > > hospital > >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP > >client > >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp > > > server > >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system > >and > >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in > > > unix > >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp > >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly > >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist > >anymore. Al > >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this > >behaviour before? > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > Cytologist > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Fri May 7 11:21:33 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:21:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney Message-ID: <002801c4344f$5fc519f0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Hi Group, If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney specializing in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been an advocate for developers that is a big plus. Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 7 11:41:11 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:41:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: I have not experienced this problem. Perhaps a call to Sleep API for 50 milliseconds? Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) Perhaps a DoEvents before/after the call to Sleep? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s17.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:59 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:04 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i47D5iQ04616;Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:44 -0500 >Received: from xcgmd812.northgrum.com >(xcgmd812.northgrum.com[155.104.240.108])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i47D5fQ04569for >; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:41 -0500 >Received: by xcgmd812 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:05:22 -0700 >Received: from xcgmd805.northgrum.com ([155.104.117.53]) >byxcgmd805.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service >Version 5.5.2653.13)id K31986ZD; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:04:44 -0700 >Received: from xcgva080 ([172.30.18.153]) by 155.104.117.53 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 06:04:43 -0700 >Received: from npeimc02.nns.com ([172.30.18.167]) by xcgva080 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:05:14 -0400 >Received: by npeimc02.nns.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:13 -0400 >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+soD+00CmSqloiEfVNPHZPEbvx0NF0JIN1E= >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 13:06:04.0932 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0DE5BC40:01C43434] > >Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? >This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and >return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to >shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. >All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. >My >current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK >button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying >to >avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in >testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to >departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are >technically in another department and on-loan to us. > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit > > >Hi Mark > > > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like >ShellExecuteA > > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered >extension, > > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( > >It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. >But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: > > > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 > >' Wait forever. >Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF >' The state of the specified object is signaled. >Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 >' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. >Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 > >Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ > ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hObject As Long) _ > As Long > >' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following >occurs: >' - The specified object is in the signaled state. >' - The time-out interval elapses. >' >' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in >milliseconds. >' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state >is >' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s >state >' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s >time-out >' interval never elapses. >' >' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As >a >' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. >The >' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. >' >' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out >' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the >process >' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with >your >' processing. >' >' DOS Applications: >' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes >' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app >that >' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". >' >' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, >vbNormalFocus) > >Function ShellWait( _ > ByVal strCommand As String) _ > As Boolean > > Dim lngPid As Long > Dim lngHnd As Long > Dim lngReturn As Long > Dim booSuccess As Boolean > > If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then > lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) > If lngPid <> 0 Then > ' Get a handle to the shelled process. > lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) > ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the >handle. > If lngHnd <> 0 Then > lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) > CloseHandle (lngHnd) > booSuccess = True > End If > MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" > End If > End If > > ShellWait = booSuccess > >End Function > > > >Beware of line breaks. > >/gustav > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Fri May 7 11:48:57 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:48:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: Replace the 'form' portion with your form's name, and the 'field' portion with your textbox's name. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 11:57:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:57:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <003d01c4344e$f6a098f0$fcc581d5@pedro> References: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> <003d01c4344e$f6a098f0$fcc581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <12933396311.20040507185730@cactus.dk> Hi Pedro > after opening in an texteditor, do an edit and saving it, i couldn't import > it normally in access. I had to copy the data in an empty texteditor file > and then save it as textfile before i could import it. > The problem is that when opening the file in unix the text is in collumns. > after the ftp transfer the text isn't anymore. > The strange thing is that nothing changed in the way of handeling these > files, and suddenly the problem occurs. Here is one way to handle this (in code): http://www.freevbcode.com/ShowCode.asp?ID=3632 Or use, say, EditPad: http://www.editpadlite.com/editpadlite.html /gustav From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri May 7 11:58:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:58:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney References: <002801c4344f$5fc519f0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Message-ID: <00e701c43454$96836ff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jennifer: Peter Karlen did the work on my trademark many years ago. His contact info is at the bottom of the page: http://www.sacforart.com/rights.html although the area code may now be 858. You might also consult with David Himelstein. http://www.himels-computer-law.com/ HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Gross" To: "AccessD List" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > Hi Group, > > If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney specializing > in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been an > advocate for developers that is a big plus. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jennifer Gross > databasics > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > www.databasicsdesign.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 12:02:12 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:02:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: This was to be my approach exactly, but, while beta-testing a form-launched deployment (as opposed to an AutoExec macro), users acknowledged that the feedback was welcome. It was suggested that the "silent install" might cause concern for users that noticed both processes activating without any kind of indication as to why. Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit I have not experienced this problem. Perhaps a call to Sleep API for 50 milliseconds? Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) Perhaps a DoEvents before/after the call to Sleep? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s17.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:59 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:04 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i47D5iQ04616;Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:44 -0500 >Received: from xcgmd812.northgrum.com >(xcgmd812.northgrum.com[155.104.240.108])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i47D5fQ04569for >; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:41 -0500 >Received: by xcgmd812 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:05:22 -0700 >Received: from xcgmd805.northgrum.com ([155.104.117.53]) >byxcgmd805.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service >Version 5.5.2653.13)id K31986ZD; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:04:44 -0700 >Received: from xcgva080 ([172.30.18.153]) by 155.104.117.53 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 06:04:43 -0700 >Received: from npeimc02.nns.com ([172.30.18.167]) by xcgva080 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:05:14 -0400 >Received: by npeimc02.nns.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:13 -0400 >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+soD+00CmSqloiEfVNPHZPEbvx0NF0JIN1E= >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 13:06:04.0932 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0DE5BC40:01C43434] > >Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? >This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and >return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to >shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. >All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. >My >current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK >button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying >to >avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in >testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to >departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are >technically in another department and on-loan to us. > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit > > >Hi Mark > > > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like >ShellExecuteA > > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered >extension, > > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( > >It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. >But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: > > > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 > >' Wait forever. >Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF >' The state of the specified object is signaled. >Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 >' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. >Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 > >Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ > ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hObject As Long) _ > As Long > >' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following >occurs: >' - The specified object is in the signaled state. >' - The time-out interval elapses. >' >' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in >milliseconds. >' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state >is >' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s >state >' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s >time-out >' interval never elapses. >' >' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As >a >' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. >The >' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. >' >' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out >' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the >process >' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with >your >' processing. >' >' DOS Applications: >' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes >' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app >that >' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". >' >' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, >vbNormalFocus) > >Function ShellWait( _ > ByVal strCommand As String) _ > As Boolean > > Dim lngPid As Long > Dim lngHnd As Long > Dim lngReturn As Long > Dim booSuccess As Boolean > > If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then > lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) > If lngPid <> 0 Then > ' Get a handle to the shelled process. > lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) > ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the >handle. > If lngHnd <> 0 Then > lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) > CloseHandle (lngHnd) > booSuccess = True > End If > MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" > End If > End If > > ShellWait = booSuccess > >End Function > > > >Beware of line breaks. > >/gustav > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 12:02:27 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:02:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412788@bross.quiznos.net> I built something similar once and utilized the Do Events within the Error Handling and it fixed the issue. I did not think to try a sleep API. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: J|rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit I have not experienced this problem. Perhaps a call to Sleep API for 50 milliseconds? Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) Perhaps a DoEvents before/after the call to Sleep? Ciao Jurgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s17.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:59 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:04 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i47D5iQ04616;Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:44 -0500 >Received: from xcgmd812.northgrum.com >(xcgmd812.northgrum.com[155.104.240.108])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i47D5fQ04569for >; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:41 -0500 >Received: by xcgmd812 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:05:22 -0700 >Received: from xcgmd805.northgrum.com ([155.104.117.53]) >byxcgmd805.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service >Version 5.5.2653.13)id K31986ZD; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:04:44 -0700 >Received: from xcgva080 ([172.30.18.153]) by 155.104.117.53 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 06:04:43 -0700 >Received: from npeimc02.nns.com ([172.30.18.167]) by xcgva080 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:05:14 -0400 >Received: by npeimc02.nns.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:13 -0400 >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+soD+00CmSqloiEfVNPHZPEbvx0NF0JIN1E= >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 13:06:04.0932 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0DE5BC40:01C43434] > >Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? >This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and >return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to >shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. >All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. >My >current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK >button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying >to >avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in >testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to >departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are >technically in another department and on-loan to us. > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit > > >Hi Mark > > > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like >ShellExecuteA > > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered >extension, > > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( > >It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. >But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: > > > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 > >' Wait forever. >Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF >' The state of the specified object is signaled. >Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 >' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. >Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 > >Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ > ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hObject As Long) _ > As Long > >' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following >occurs: >' - The specified object is in the signaled state. >' - The time-out interval elapses. >' >' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in >milliseconds. >' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state >is >' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s >state >' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s >time-out >' interval never elapses. >' >' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As >a >' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. >The >' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. >' >' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out >' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the >process >' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with >your >' processing. >' >' DOS Applications: >' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes >' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app >that >' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". >' >' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, >vbNormalFocus) > >Function ShellWait( _ > ByVal strCommand As String) _ > As Boolean > > Dim lngPid As Long > Dim lngHnd As Long > Dim lngReturn As Long > Dim booSuccess As Boolean > > If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then > lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) > If lngPid <> 0 Then > ' Get a handle to the shelled process. > lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) > ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the >handle. > If lngHnd <> 0 Then > lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) > CloseHandle (lngHnd) > booSuccess = True > End If > MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" > End If > End If > > ShellWait = booSuccess > >End Function > > > >Beware of line breaks. > >/gustav > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 7 12:12:01 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:12:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <409BC361.7000405@shaw.ca> I didn't know this but I am afraid you are hooped. You cannot use ADO to read a password-protected Excel workbook. The reason is that protecting it with a password actually encrypts the workbook on disk and ADO has no way of decrypting it. XL2000: "Could Not Decrypt File" Error with Password Protected File http://support.microsoft.com/?KBID=211378 I guess the only way to get at this is running application.excel and using a password from there to get at the data. So you would need a copy of excel on the running macine. Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi all > >If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >error above. >The wizard can not accept a password. > >I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with > > PWD=mypassword; > >so it becomes > > Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls > >but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >error. > >Is this possible? > >/gustav > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 12:25:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 19:25:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file In-Reply-To: <409BC361.7000405@shaw.ca> References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> <409BC361.7000405@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <65800511.20040507192538@cactus.dk> Hi Marty Yes, that's my conclusion as well. /gustav > I didn't know this but I am afraid you are hooped. > You cannot use ADO to read a password-protected Excel workbook. > The reason is that protecting it with a password actually encrypts the > workbook on disk > and ADO has no way of decrypting it. > XL2000: "Could Not Decrypt File" Error with Password Protected File > http://support.microsoft.com/?KBID=211378 > I guess the only way to get at this is running application.excel and > using a password from there > to get at the data. > So you would need a copy of excel on the running macine. > Gustav Brock wrote: >>Hi all >> >>If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >>password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >>error above. >>The wizard can not accept a password. >> >>I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with >> >> PWD=mypassword; >> >>so it becomes >> >> Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls >> >>but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >>error. >> >>Is this possible? From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 12:34:13 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:34:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BE@TAPPEEXCH01> Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. Does ANYONE use the method syntax for executing stored procedures? I realize it's a newer ADO feature but I've found it to be extremely useful in reducing the volume of ADO code in my projects. -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Also it doesn't rely on entering the parameters in any specific order. I mainly prefer that method for the same reason Gustav pointed out, it's much easier to read thus easier to debug when you have to or when you come back to the code a year down the road. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com Fri May 7 12:56:13 2004 From: MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com (Mark Boyd) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:56:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Rounding Currency Message-ID: A user has asked me to remove the "cents" from several currency fields. Instead of reformatting the fields, I'd like to round the amounts to the nearest dollar. Is there a query I can run that will round in this manner? Thanks, Mark Boyd Sr. Systems Analyst McBee Associates, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 13:11:51 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:11:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BE@TAPPEEXCH01> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BE@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <1823573488.20040507201151@cactus.dk> Hi Brett > Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that > 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. /gustav From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 13:13:11 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:13:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end. Message-ID: Microsoft recommends this procedure. Any common practices that deviate from this method? 1. Create an empty form. 2. Declare a recordset variable in the global declarations section. 3.In the OnOpen event, open a recordset against any table. 4. In the OnClose event, which will activate when the MDB is closed, close the recordset and set the variable to nothing. 5. Ensure that you always open this form when opening the MDB. You will likely want to have this form hidden when you open the file. Mark From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 7 13:13:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:13:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word References: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> <6.0.1.1.2.20040507105157.03c35850@mail.sgmeet.com> Message-ID: <409BD1BC.8050500@shaw.ca> It can get quite complex if you mean some external client will cut and pastes from a word document into a text box on an asp page. This control will allow you to save directly to a PDF or .Doc format on the server. You might want to look at ActiveX Server controls, this assumes you can install them on your website and your web hosting agreement allows it I would use an ASP component like TX Text Control ActiveX Server http://www.textcontrol.com/products/activex_server/?TXTEXTCONTROL=ab8916eac9588203add96dd0ecdf0a46 This a mid range price control and is about $2500 US One item of complexity is checking for SQL Injection attacks. This isn't the only approach. I may be misreading what you are trying to do. Susan Jones wrote: > Please bear with me if I'm not using the correct terminology here... > > We use ASP to capture information on entered our web pages into SQL. > We then use that information in preparing materials for distribution. > We're looking into ways to also capture formatting that would be > 'read' by Word once it's merged - ie. bold, italics, etc. > > I'm having trouble finding anything in Help in Word or Access that > would change Susan to having the word bolded and the formatting > information removed. > > Any thoughts? Am I missing something simple? Is this harder than I > think it should be? > > Thanks so much! > Susan > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 13:20:53 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:20:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BF@TAPPEEXCH01> > That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour > of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. Huh?! Not counting the With blocks, He said : 1 Set com = New ADODB.Command With com 2 .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection 3 .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" 4 .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc 5 .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25) 6 .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum 7 .Execute End With I said: With CurrentProject.Connection 1 .sp_DeleteRAs RANum End With Thus, 7 vs. 1 (or 9 vs. 3 with the blocks), and that doesn't count the code you need to dim the command object and destroy it afterwards. I'm sorry, who's been been drinking here? -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Brett > Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that > 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 13:22:45 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:22:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD941278A@bross.quiznos.net> The 7 lines gives you more information, that's why it's preferable in my mind. Specifically I like to see exactly what the Parameter names are, their data type, the Input/Output designation and the value being passed to it. For a 1 parameter stored procedure it is not very useful, but when you start getting more and more parameters in there it keeps things much cleaner. I also don't want my code to be dependent on matching the same order the parameters are listed in the Stored Procedure and in my call to it. One less thing to worry about. I am unaware of any performance benefits of one over the other and advocate the "longer" method purely out of readability and personal preferences. It's the same reason that I write: Dim strSample as String instead of the short version: Dim strSample$ -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. Does ANYONE use the method syntax for executing stored procedures? I realize it's a newer ADO feature but I've found it to be extremely useful in reducing the volume of ADO code in my projects. -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Also it doesn't rely on entering the parameters in any specific order. I mainly prefer that method for the same reason Gustav pointed out, it's much easier to read thus easier to debug when you have to or when you come back to the code a year down the road. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Fri May 7 13:25:51 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:25:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney In-Reply-To: <00e701c43454$96836ff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003601c43460$bcf8e730$6801a8c0@jefferson> Thanks Rocky, There is a lot of good information on the Himelstein web site. I am feeling more confident about my position as the developer. It doesn't matter that they paid me for my time, I own my code. Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney Jennifer: Peter Karlen did the work on my trademark many years ago. His contact info is at the bottom of the page: http://www.sacforart.com/rights.html although the area code may now be 858. You might also consult with David Himelstein. http://www.himels-computer-law.com/ HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Gross" To: "AccessD List" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > Hi Group, > > If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney specializing > in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been an > advocate for developers that is a big plus. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jennifer Gross > databasics > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > www.databasicsdesign.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 13:28:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:28:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BF@TAPPEEXCH01> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BF@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <1984543943.20040507202801@cactus.dk> Hi Brett Oops, missed that. I understood the choice was .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum versus .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25, RANum) Need some beer. /gustav >> That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour >> of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. > Huh?! Not counting the With blocks, > He said : > 1 Set com = New ADODB.Command > With com > 2 .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection > 3 .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" > 4 .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > 5 .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25) > 6 .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum > 7 .Execute > End With > I said: > With CurrentProject.Connection > 1 .sp_DeleteRAs RANum > End With > Thus, 7 vs. 1 (or 9 vs. 3 with the blocks), and that doesn't count the code > you need to dim the command object and destroy it afterwards. > I'm sorry, who's been been drinking here? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? > Hi Brett >> Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that >> 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. > That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour > of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 13:32:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:32:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Rounding Currency In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1864809866.20040507203227@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > A user has asked me to remove the "cents" from several currency fields. > Instead of reformatting the fields, I'd like to round the amounts to the > nearest dollar. Is there a query I can run that will round in this > manner? The quick and dirty (Access 2000+) is Round([Amount], 0) It's a little buggy. If you need serious rounding, visit: http://www.xbeat.net/vbspeed/c_Round.htm and browse for Round15. /gustav From joeget at vgernet.net Fri May 7 13:47:21 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:47:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] access mdb to web base application. Message-ID: <000f01c43463$bf0614f0$13c2f63f@Desktop> Could someone tell me what application(s) i would need to go from a access mdb file to a web based application? Thanks John From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 7 13:58:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:58:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end . Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227BA0@main2.marlow.com> When I create a 'link' form, I don't even bother with code (one of the few things I like doing without code). I just link a table, then create an autoform to that table. Then in my startup process, I open that form hidden. Linking done. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:13 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end. Microsoft recommends this procedure. Any common practices that deviate from this method? 1. Create an empty form. 2. Declare a recordset variable in the global declarations section. 3.In the OnOpen event, open a recordset against any table. 4. In the OnClose event, which will activate when the MDB is closed, close the recordset and set the variable to nothing. 5. Ensure that you always open this form when opening the MDB. You will likely want to have this form hidden when you open the file. Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 7 13:59:26 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:59:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: Thanks for the tip on this. I hadn't know it worked this way. Using 'functions' over 'subs' is a habit that I obviously need to break. I think I get this from learning other lanquages, years ago, which used functions or procedures. They were mostly OOP. Thanks to everybody who donated their thoughts to this. As usual, I ask for help, and I not only get it, but I learn something along the way. Thanks again everybody!!! John W Clark >>> Lambert.Heenan at aig.com 5/6/2004 4:26:04 PM >>> Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 7 14:01:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:01:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] access mdb to web base application. Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227BA1@main2.marlow.com> Notepad? Actually, can you be a little more specific? To go to a web application, you have several options. PHP and ASP are probably the most popular. I personally prefer ASP on an IIS webserver. That allows me to create ActiveX .dll's in Visual Basic to handle the business logic interface to the database, then I use ASP to actually create the pages. As for ASP, I use Microsoft Scripting Editor, the version that comes with Front Page XP/2002. It has intellisence, and does autocomplete for not only VBScript code, but also for HTML tags. Pretty handy. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:47 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] access mdb to web base application. Could someone tell me what application(s) i would need to go from a access mdb file to a web based application? Thanks John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 14:02:39 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:02:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end . Message-ID: Good point. Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end . When I create a 'link' form, I don't even bother with code (one of the few things I like doing without code). I just link a table, then create an autoform to that table. Then in my startup process, I open that form hidden. Linking done. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:13 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end. Microsoft recommends this procedure. Any common practices that deviate from this method? 1. Create an empty form. 2. Declare a recordset variable in the global declarations section. 3.In the OnOpen event, open a recordset against any table. 4. In the OnClose event, which will activate when the MDB is closed, close the recordset and set the variable to nothing. 5. Ensure that you always open this form when opening the MDB. You will likely want to have this form hidden when you open the file. Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri May 7 14:10:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:10:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney References: <003601c43460$bcf8e730$6801a8c0@jefferson> Message-ID: <019d01c43466$e7467740$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jennifer: That's my understanding and I've looked into it pretty good. In the absence of a contract with your customer specifically transferring ownership of the work product, you retain ownership of the code and are granting your customer an implied license to use it. HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Gross" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > Thanks Rocky, > > There is a lot of good information on the Himelstein web site. I am > feeling more confident about my position as the developer. It doesn't > matter that they paid me for my time, I own my code. > > Jennifer Gross > databasics > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > www.databasicsdesign.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:59 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > > > Jennifer: > > Peter Karlen did the work on my trademark many years ago. His contact > info > is at the bottom of the page: > http://www.sacforart.com/rights.html > > although the area code may now be 858. > > You might also consult with David Himelstein. > > http://www.himels-computer-law.com/ > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Gross" > To: "AccessD List" > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:21 AM > Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > > > > Hi Group, > > > > If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney > specializing > > in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been > an > > advocate for developers that is a big plus. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jennifer Gross > > databasics > > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > > www.databasicsdesign.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From susanj at sgmeet.com Fri May 7 14:13:14 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:13:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word In-Reply-To: <409BD1BC.8050500@shaw.ca> References: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> <6.0.1.1.2.20040507105157.03c35850@mail.sgmeet.com> <409BD1BC.8050500@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040507140552.03c6e8d8@mail.sgmeet.com> I'm printing information from the website right now. Let me try again to explain what we need to do. I think you might be on target with what we want ultimately. We need to allow users to enter a block of text with formatting (specifically scientific information - so think scientific names in italics, etc.). Once we have the information, we will need to have it display online and also prepare a final book, both of which includes the formatting. Currently, we are looking at a form that requires the user to enter HTML code within the text. If we go this route, how would we be able to use that information from the database to change the formatting from the HTML code to bold, italics, whatever once it's merged into Word? Besides getting it right in Word, I'm also concerned that the data would not be written to the database correctly in the first place. Susan At 01:13 PM 5/7/04, you wrote: >It can get quite complex if you mean some external client will cut and >pastes from a word document into a text box on an asp page. >This control will allow you to save directly to a PDF or .Doc format on >the server. >You might want to look at ActiveX Server controls, this assumes you can >install them on your website and your web hosting agreement allows it >I would use an ASP component like TX Text Control ActiveX Server >http://www.textcontrol.com/products/activex_server/?TXTEXTCONTROL=ab8916eac9588203add96dd0ecdf0a46 >This a mid range price control and is about $2500 US >One item of complexity is checking for SQL Injection attacks. >This isn't the only approach. I may be misreading what you are trying to do. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 14:27:15 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:27:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Wo rd Message-ID: >> requires the user to enter HTML code within the text << I'm probably way off on all this, but this doesn't seem right. Is formatting a requirement for both the online and hard copy publication? If so, you seem to be placing a lot of the burden on the content providers. If formatting is such an issue, my initial thought is that you would want to provide an .rtf(Notepad)-like ActiveX control. For those entries requiring a lot of formatting, users could spend as much time typing the tags as they do the content. Maybe Susan can provide some insight, but I thought detailed formatting requirements like scientific notation would be primarily a function of the publisher, not the author. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Jones [mailto:susanj at sgmeet.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word I'm printing information from the website right now. Let me try again to explain what we need to do. I think you might be on target with what we want ultimately. We need to allow users to enter a block of text with formatting (specifically scientific information - so think scientific names in italics, etc.). Once we have the information, we will need to have it display online and also prepare a final book, both of which includes the formatting. Currently, we are looking at a form that requires the user to enter HTML code within the text. If we go this route, how would we be able to use that information from the database to change the formatting from the HTML code to bold, italics, whatever once it's merged into Word? Besides getting it right in Word, I'm also concerned that the data would not be written to the database correctly in the first place. Susan At 01:13 PM 5/7/04, you wrote: >It can get quite complex if you mean some external client will cut and >pastes from a word document into a text box on an asp page. >This control will allow you to save directly to a PDF or .Doc format on >the server. >You might want to look at ActiveX Server controls, this assumes you can >install them on your website and your web hosting agreement allows it >I would use an ASP component like TX Text Control ActiveX Server >http://www.textcontrol.com/products/activex_server/?TXTEXTCONTROL=ab8916eac 9588203add96dd0ecdf0a46 >This a mid range price control and is about $2500 US >One item of complexity is checking for SQL Injection attacks. >This isn't the only approach. I may be misreading what you are trying to do. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com Fri May 7 14:34:11 2004 From: MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com (Mark Boyd) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:34:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Rounding Currency Message-ID: Thanks Gustav. The Round function seemed to work perfectly. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Rounding Currency Hi Mark > A user has asked me to remove the "cents" from several currency fields. > Instead of reformatting the fields, I'd like to round the amounts to the > nearest dollar. Is there a query I can run that will round in this > manner? The quick and dirty (Access 2000+) is Round([Amount], 0) It's a little buggy. If you need serious rounding, visit: http://www.xbeat.net/vbspeed/c_Round.htm and browse for Round15. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From susanj at sgmeet.com Fri May 7 14:52:39 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:52:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040507143601.03c68800@mail.sgmeet.com> We feel the same way and we've convinced most of our clients that it's not worth the frustration either to the user or the publisher having to make the changes. There's never been a complaint that the formatting doesn't follow proper scientific notation from attendees. However, we have one client that refuses to accept this and claims it has to be done. So, now I'm stuck trying to make it work within our current system as much as possible. I'll ask about ActiveX controls. I wonder if that's where this is coming from in the first place. Thanks, Susan At 02:27 PM 5/7/04, you wrote: > >> requires the user to enter HTML code within the text << > >I'm probably way off on all this, but this doesn't seem right. Is >formatting a requirement for both the online and hard copy publication? If >so, you seem to be placing a lot of the burden on the content providers. If >formatting is such an issue, my initial thought is that you would want to >provide an .rtf(Notepad)-like ActiveX control. For those entries requiring >a lot of formatting, users could spend as much time typing the tags as they >do the content. Maybe Susan can provide some insight, but I thought >detailed formatting requirements like scientific notation would be primarily >a function of the publisher, not the author. > > >Mark From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Fri May 7 15:05:47 2004 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:05:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F91@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Thanks Gustav that's what the problem was. Turned AutoCorrect off and the settings stay. What a weird problem. Thanks again, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division Technical Support Analyst -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Jim and Mike I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of the report. Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. /gustav > Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be > configured to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is > different from the development station the report can become > disoriented and in some cases sends it's work to the default printer. > It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Everyone, > I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints > out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set > to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any > changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset > themselves to go back to the default printer. > Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want > the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and > correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 7 19:51:38 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:51:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Scott: Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. Setup a NAT (network address translation) service/server on the network and put all additional machines behind it with private IP addresses. Some machines (usually servers) may require IP addresses outside the NAT, and that is easily done. Alternatively, you could put all machines behind a Microsoft ISA server (which also functions as a NAT) and map the incoming requests to the appropriate server. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. Sorry about the OT nature of this message. I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 7 20:08:48 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:08:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <199657927.20040507122151@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I said this with only one situation to reference. Developed an application and sent it to the client. (they were some distance away.) The print jobs kept going to the 'default' printer. It was not until, I made a vist to their office, when through every report and re-saved and the probelm never came back again. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Jim and Mike I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of the report. Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. /gustav > Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured > to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the > development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases > sends it's work to the default printer. > It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Everyone, > I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out > different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go > to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes > in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to > go back to the default printer. > Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the > label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct > the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 8 04:00:29 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 11:00:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1733343217.20040508110029@cactus.dk> Hi Jim So your report was not assigned the default printer? If a report is set to use a specific printer setting, the name of this must, of course, be present at the client. The printer doesn't need to be identical with yours but similar. Perhaps that was the problem - your printers were too different? /gustav > Hi Gustav: > I said this with only one situation to reference. > Developed an application and sent it to the client. (they were some distance > away.) The print jobs kept going to the 'default' printer. It was not until, > I made a vist to their office, when through every report and re-saved and > the probelm never came back again. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Jim and Mike > I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of > the report. > Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to > AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. > /gustav >> Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured >> to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the >> development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases >> sends it's work to the default printer. >> It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. >> Jim >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W >> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer >> Hi Everyone, >> I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out >> different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go >> to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes >> in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to >> go back to the default printer. >> Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the >> label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct >> the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> Thanks, >> Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. >> Team Leader - SRCI >> Information Systems & Services Division From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 8 04:28:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 11:28:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <4094A362.5080105@shaw.ca> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <4094A362.5080105@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1945004385.20040508112810@cactus.dk> Hi Marty > For a different file based database running on Novell with windows clients > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm This is an excellent round up of the issues with Windows servers. > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_net_fact_sheet.htm This has some nice tips as well. However, for the records, the recommendations about the Novell Client are either not relevant any longer (they refer to the old name of the client: Client32) or are specific to Superbase. Indeed, turning off server side caching and packet burst mode are very doubtful. /gustav From joeget at vgernet.net Sat May 8 06:37:17 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 07:37:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] form closure Message-ID: <001601c434f0$d5317480$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Is there a way to hide the upper right hand corner (x) close capability on a form. Individuals are closing out their databases with that option instead of the form option i have installed to compact upon closure? thanks john eget From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de Sat May 8 08:11:13 2004 From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 15:11:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] form closure References: <001601c434f0$d5317480$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <011901c434fd$f0fc3fd0$0200a8c0@S856> you can open a form as hidden when you start the database and have in its OnClose event al the stuff you want to run before Access closes Lembit Soobik ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Eget" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: [AccessD] form closure Is there a way to hide the upper right hand corner (x) close capability on a form. Individuals are closing out their databases with that option instead of the form option i have installed to compact upon closure? thanks john eget -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 8 13:02:08 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:02:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] form closure In-Reply-To: <001601c434f0$d5317480$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <00a901c43526$948ffbf0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> John You can suppress the Close x but not if the form's maximized. See http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0022.htm to overcome this. Alternatively (and easier) create a boolean var in the form's code (e.g. blnCanClose). Behind your Close button set it to True. In the form's OnUnload event put: If blnCanClose=False then Cancel=true End if That way only closing via your code will work. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget > Sent: 08 May 2004 12:37 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] form closure > > > Is there a way to hide the upper right hand corner (x) close > capability on a form. Individuals are closing out their > databases with that option instead of the form option i have > installed to compact upon closure? thanks john eget > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mastercafe at ctv.es Sat May 8 15:06:33 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 22:06:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats In-Reply-To: <011901c434fd$f0fc3fd0$0200a8c0@S856> Message-ID: <003601c43537$f6315c80$0300a8c0@masterserver> We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other format, not for XML. Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? TIA Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 8 16:47:36 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 14:47:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <1733343217.20040508110029@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: Could have been...there were some kind of Japanese printer, I do remember the name but they were suppose to function similar to HP. That was apparently not the case. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 2:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Jim So your report was not assigned the default printer? If a report is set to use a specific printer setting, the name of this must, of course, be present at the client. The printer doesn't need to be identical with yours but similar. Perhaps that was the problem - your printers were too different? /gustav > Hi Gustav: > I said this with only one situation to reference. > Developed an application and sent it to the client. (they were some distance > away.) The print jobs kept going to the 'default' printer. It was not until, > I made a vist to their office, when through every report and re-saved and > the probelm never came back again. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Jim and Mike > I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of > the report. > Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to > AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. > /gustav >> Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured >> to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the >> development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases >> sends it's work to the default printer. >> It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. >> Jim >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W >> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer >> Hi Everyone, >> I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out >> different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go >> to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes >> in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to >> go back to the default printer. >> Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the >> label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct >> the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> Thanks, >> Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. >> Team Leader - SRCI >> Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 8 16:47:40 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 14:47:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <1945004385.20040508112810@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Superbase was the first PC based DB that I ever worked on (1982)...actually it ran on a Commodore64. It was very fast and functional and I really missed as it went into a black-hole for a few years and then sort of remerged in the early nineties...Did not know that it still existed. Good to know it is still in there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 2:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access Hi Marty > For a different file based database running on Novell with windows clients > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm This is an excellent round up of the issues with Windows servers. > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_net_fact_sheet.htm This has some nice tips as well. However, for the records, the recommendations about the Novell Client are either not relevant any longer (they refer to the old name of the client: Client32) or are specific to Superbase. Indeed, turning off server side caching and packet burst mode are very doubtful. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 8 18:40:54 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 11:40:54 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] SR level of Office Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908870F@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> The construct SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) gets me the Access version I am running. I have looked thru SysCmd and can't find how to determine the patch level. I want to disable some command buttons whose underlying code depends on Access 2000 being patched to service pack 3. Any ideas? Stephen Bond From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun May 9 10:44:51 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 08:44:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats References: <003601c43537$f6315c80$0300a8c0@masterserver> Message-ID: <409E51F3.1070703@shaw.ca> Can you post the code, you are using, Are you using an xslt transform? MastercafeCTV wrote: >We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are making >with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the XML format >we only can use without acformat and then select from a new window. >We look the main help and some samples but allways put other format, not for >XML. > >Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? > >TIA > >Juan > > >================================ >Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >www.mastercafe.com >info at mastercafe.com >================================ > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From mastercafe at ctv.es Sun May 9 14:55:01 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:55:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats In-Reply-To: <409E51F3.1070703@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c435ff$84671fe0$0300a8c0@masterserver> This is the complete Procedure code: Private Sub imprime_Click() On Error GoTo Err_imprime_Click Dim stDocName As String Dim ctlPtr As Printer Dim devName As String Dim strPtr As String 'impresora en curso Dim TmpImpresora As String Dim bucle As Integer Dim sngBot As Single Dim sngTop As Single Dim sngLft As Single Dim sngRgt As Single Dim resp As Boolean sngBot = Me.InfBot sngTop = Me.InfTop sngLft = Me.InfLeft sngRgt = Me.InfRight strPtr = Application.Printer.DeviceName 'this routine is to take a different printer before launch the current report TmpImpresora = Me.InfImpr stDocName = Me.InfNombre If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(TmpImpresora) With Application.Printer .BottomMargin = sngBot * 567 '.Copies = Me.InfCopias .TopMargin = sngTop * 567 .LeftMargin = sngLft * 567 .RightMargin = sngRgt * 567 If Me.InfOrienta = 1 Then .Orientation = acPRORLandscape Else .Orientation = acPRORPortrait End If End With End If If Me.externo <> "STEEL" Then 'external function to open a remote Access Report to use resp = fOpenRemoteReportParam(Me.externo, stDocName, Me.argumentos, Me.SALIDA) GoTo SALIDA End If Select Case Me.SALIDA 'this is the main SELECT to checjk the option that was selected in the form Case 1 'OPCION DE SALIDA POR PANTALLA ACTIVAR EL SNAPSHOT DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatSNP, cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" DoCmd.OpenForm "SnapShot", acNormal, , , acFormEdit, acDialog, cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" Case 2 For bucle = 1 To Me.InfCopias DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acNormal, , Me.argumentos Next bucle Case 3 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatXLS, cteHojas & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xls", ctrlexcel 'If Me.ctrlexcel Then ' AbreExcel cteHojas & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".XLS" 'End If Case 4 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatRTF, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".rtf", ctrlexcel Case 5 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatIIS, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".htx", ctrlexcel Case 6 '******************** this is the XML format because without format you can select this DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, , cteDirectorio & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xml", ctrlexcel Case 7 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatHTML, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", ctrlexcel Case 8 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatASP, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".asp", ctrlexcel Case 9 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", ctrlexcel Case 10 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".txt", ctrlexcel End Select SALIDA: If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then 'se restablece la impresora si fue cambiada Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(strPtr) 'volvemos a dejar la q estaba End If Exit_imprime_Click: Exit Sub Err_imprime_Click: MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_imprime_Click End Sub ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: domingo, 09 de mayo de 2004 17:45 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Exporting formats Can you post the code, you are using, Are you using an xslt transform? MastercafeCTV wrote: >We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are >making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the >XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new >window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other >format, not for XML. > >Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? > >TIA > >Juan > > >================================ >Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >www.mastercafe.com >info at mastercafe.com >================================ > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 9 17:46:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:46:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] .net assembler Message-ID: Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still fascinating. Url = buf.Substring(4) 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax 00000104 mov ecx,edi 00000106 mov edx,4 Url = buf.Substring(4) 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx 0000010d call FF482728 00000112 mov ebx,eax 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] 0000011a call 75ACCA48 Exit Do 0000011f nop 00000120 jmp 0000012B End If 00000122 nop Loop 00000123 nop Do While True 00000124 xor eax,eax 00000126 cmp eax,1 00000129 jne 000000D4 Reader.Close() 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] 00000133 nop Stream.Close() 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] 0000013c nop End Sub 0000013d nop 0000013e pop ebx 0000013f pop esi 00000140 pop edi 00000141 mov esp,ebp 00000143 pop ebp 00000144 ret John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 9 17:46:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:46:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] .net assembler Message-ID: Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still fascinating. Url = buf.Substring(4) 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax 00000104 mov ecx,edi 00000106 mov edx,4 Url = buf.Substring(4) 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx 0000010d call FF482728 00000112 mov ebx,eax 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] 0000011a call 75ACCA48 Exit Do 0000011f nop 00000120 jmp 0000012B End If 00000122 nop Loop 00000123 nop Do While True 00000124 xor eax,eax 00000126 cmp eax,1 00000129 jne 000000D4 Reader.Close() 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] 00000133 nop Stream.Close() 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] 0000013c nop End Sub 0000013d nop 0000013e pop ebx 0000013f pop esi 00000140 pop edi 00000141 mov esp,ebp 00000143 pop ebp 00000144 ret John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 9 18:25:05 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 19:25:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] .net assembler References: Message-ID: <000801c4361c$dc63aac0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...has to be a distribution error JC, a dangerous one imnsho ...assembler source is MS proprietary code that they protect like Fort Knox ...and the thought of hackers getting access to such source sends shudders down the spine ...I'd bet MS will be "patching" this asap :( ...hope they're already aware of it :( William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "VBA" ; "AccessD" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] .net assembler > Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item > in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that > displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not > that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and > no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still > fascinating. > > Url = buf.Substring(4) > 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] > 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax > 00000104 mov ecx,edi > 00000106 mov edx,4 > Url = buf.Substring(4) > 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx > 0000010d call FF482728 > 00000112 mov ebx,eax > 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] > 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] > 0000011a call 75ACCA48 > Exit Do > 0000011f nop > 00000120 jmp 0000012B > End If > 00000122 nop > Loop > 00000123 nop > Do While True > 00000124 xor eax,eax > 00000126 cmp eax,1 > 00000129 jne 000000D4 > Reader.Close() > 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] > 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] > 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] > 00000133 nop > Stream.Close() > 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] > 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] > 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] > 0000013c nop > End Sub > 0000013d nop > 0000013e pop ebx > 0000013f pop esi > 00000140 pop edi > 00000141 mov esp,ebp > 00000143 pop ebp > 00000144 ret > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Sun May 9 18:25:29 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:25:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] .net assembler Message-ID: Actually, if ytou look at the code a bit you'll find its not that interesting - its just a glorified jump table for the il code. B "John W. Colby" , "AccessD" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] .net assembler accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 10/05/2004 08:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still fascinating. Url = buf.Substring(4) 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax 00000104 mov ecx,edi 00000106 mov edx,4 Url = buf.Substring(4) 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx 0000010d call FF482728 00000112 mov ebx,eax 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] 0000011a call 75ACCA48 Exit Do 0000011f nop 00000120 jmp 0000012B End If 00000122 nop Loop 00000123 nop Do While True 00000124 xor eax,eax 00000126 cmp eax,1 00000129 jne 000000D4 Reader.Close() 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] 00000133 nop Stream.Close() 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] 0000013c nop End Sub 0000013d nop 0000013e pop ebx 0000013f pop esi 00000140 pop edi 00000141 mov esp,ebp 00000143 pop ebp 00000144 ret John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon May 10 00:18:28 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:48:28 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report References: <000001c43307$98d24040$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <00be01c4364e$57569ea0$4c1865cb@winxp> Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 10 01:14:55 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 23:14:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats References: <005b01c435ff$84671fe0$0300a8c0@masterserver> Message-ID: <409F1DDF.4050302@shaw.ca> Ahh that way If you try ?acformatxls from the debug window You get Microsoft Excel (*.xls) ?acformatxml returns nothing With Access 2002 and 2003 using ExportXML method you can get a report ouput as ReportML format Need reference to MS Office 11 or 10 object library Application.ExportXML _ ObjectType:=acExportTable, _ DataSource:="Customers", _ DataTarget:="Customers.xml", _ SchemaTarget:="CustomersSchema.xml", _ OtherFlags:="32" Look up ExportXML and ReportML, I think this flakey in 2002 but works in 2003 http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/preview.aspx?AssetID=HA010345461033&CTT=6&Origin=EC010553071033 MastercafeCTV wrote: >This is the complete Procedure code: > >Private Sub imprime_Click() >On Error GoTo Err_imprime_Click > > Dim stDocName As String > Dim ctlPtr As Printer > Dim devName As String > Dim strPtr As String 'impresora en curso > Dim TmpImpresora As String > Dim bucle As Integer > Dim sngBot As Single > Dim sngTop As Single > Dim sngLft As Single > Dim sngRgt As Single > Dim resp As Boolean > sngBot = Me.InfBot > sngTop = Me.InfTop > sngLft = Me.InfLeft > sngRgt = Me.InfRight > >strPtr = Application.Printer.DeviceName 'this routine is to take a different >printer before launch the current report >TmpImpresora = Me.InfImpr > > stDocName = Me.InfNombre > If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then > Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(TmpImpresora) > With Application.Printer > .BottomMargin = sngBot * 567 > '.Copies = Me.InfCopias > .TopMargin = sngTop * 567 > .LeftMargin = sngLft * 567 > .RightMargin = sngRgt * 567 > If Me.InfOrienta = 1 Then > .Orientation = acPRORLandscape > Else > .Orientation = acPRORPortrait > End If > End With > End If > > If Me.externo <> "STEEL" Then 'external function to open a remote Access >Report to use > resp = fOpenRemoteReportParam(Me.externo, stDocName, >Me.argumentos, Me.SALIDA) > GoTo SALIDA > End If > > Select Case Me.SALIDA 'this is the main SELECT to checjk the option >that was selected in the form > Case 1 > 'OPCION DE SALIDA POR PANTALLA ACTIVAR EL SNAPSHOT > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatSNP, >cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" > DoCmd.OpenForm "SnapShot", acNormal, , , acFormEdit, acDialog, >cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" > Case 2 > For bucle = 1 To Me.InfCopias > DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acNormal, , Me.argumentos > Next bucle > Case 3 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatXLS, cteHojas >& "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xls", ctrlexcel > 'If Me.ctrlexcel Then > ' AbreExcel cteHojas & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, >"YYMMDD") & ".XLS" > 'End If > Case 4 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatRTF, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".rtf", >ctrlexcel > Case 5 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatIIS, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".htx", >ctrlexcel > Case 6 '******************** this is the XML format because without >format you can select this > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, , cteDirectorio & "\" >& stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xml", ctrlexcel > Case 7 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatHTML, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", >ctrlexcel > Case 8 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatASP, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".asp", >ctrlexcel > Case 9 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", >ctrlexcel > Case 10 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".txt", >ctrlexcel > End Select > >SALIDA: > If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then 'se restablece la impresora si fue >cambiada > Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(strPtr) 'volvemos a >dejar la q estaba > End If >Exit_imprime_Click: > Exit Sub > >Err_imprime_Click: > MsgBox Err.Description > Resume Exit_imprime_Click > >End Sub > >================================ >Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >www.mastercafe.com >info at mastercafe.com >================================ > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: domingo, 09 de mayo de 2004 17:45 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Exporting formats > > >Can you post the code, you are using, Are you using an xslt transform? > >MastercafeCTV wrote: > > > >>We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are >>making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the >>XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new >>window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other >>format, not for XML. >> >>Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? >> >>TIA >> >>Juan >> >> >>================================ >>Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >>c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >>Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >>www.mastercafe.com >>info at mastercafe.com >>================================ >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 08:01:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:01:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: Group, If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename it (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? Mark From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 10 08:02:21 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:02:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report In-Reply-To: <32256969.1084166511718.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000c01c4368f$08515e30$de1811d8@danwaters> A.D. - Thanks! I'll try it out today. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 08:20:24 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:20:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Message-ID: Wild guess...Could you loop through the affected controls and "DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSendToBack"? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Circle Method on report A.D. - Thanks! I'll try it out today. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 10 10:23:04 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:23:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Hello All, In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is date oriented. Each query counts a different combination of data elements. All of these queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to join to a date query(on a date field) that includes all dates even if there is no data in one of the other queries. The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring any rows back when joined to the date query even though there are matching records. Each query has at least 1 expression, whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF statement. The problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). The query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. If I remove any 3 of these statements...the query joins fine. It doesn't matter which 3 I remove...as long as there is only 1 remaining. If I create a table with the output of the problem query...the table joins fine with the date query. Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue with joining queries when IIF statements are used. FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even reference the date field in question...the query groups on the date and that is all. Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 10:24:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:24:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: The relationships travel with the renamed table. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:01 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Group, If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename it (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon May 10 10:28:49 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c436a3$7e0da890$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> I don't think so. I think the original relationships get transferred/changed to the renamed table at the time of renaming. Mike and Doris Manning mikedorism at adelphia.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:01 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Group, If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename it (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 10:29:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:29:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats Message-ID: Depends on the version of Access. You can persist a recordset to XML format in 2000 and up, which might be a solution, depending on what you're trying to do. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other format, not for XML. Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? TIA Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 10:38:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:38:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports Printing Portrait When Set To Landscape Message-ID: Are you working with the PrtDevMode property in 2002 or later? I ran into a similar problem when I tried using it for our commercial applications instead of the API calls we had previously used. Needless to say I went back to the old method. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:50 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Reports Printing Portrait When Set To Landscape To all, Don't know why I tried this but I did.....I have just designed two new reports that are required by the end of today, they display as landscape and when you print them using the Printer icon they print as portrait, however if you use File/Print they print as landscape. I tried turning off Auto Correct but that didn't help unfortunately, but thank you for the suggestion anyway. Has anyone any ideas on what's going on here ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon May 10 10:47:30 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:47:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Mark Is the date query you are talking about a saved query that you bring in along with the calculate query into a new 3rd query? SavedDateQuery -> SavedCalcquery OR are you trying to do the date query while doing the calculation query. Sql and specially Access gets confused sometimes on what it is trying to pull. I have found that creating intermediate temporary tables have been the only way to accomplish some routines. The other is using parenthesis to force one to be done before the other. Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Mark A Matte > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > Hello All, > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is > date oriented. > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. > All of these queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to > join to a date query(on a date field) that includes all dates > even if there is no data in one of the other queries. > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring > any rows back when joined to the date query even though there > are matching records. Each query has at least 1 expression, > whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF statement. The > problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). The > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. > If I remove any 3 of these statements...the query joins > fine. It doesn't matter which 3 I remove...as long as there > is only 1 remaining. > > If I create a table with the output of the problem > query...the table joins fine with the date query. > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue > with joining queries when IIF statements are used. > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even > reference the date field in question...the query groups on > the date and that is all. > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > _________________________________________________________________ > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at > MSN Life Events. > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon May 10 10:55:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:55:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82CC@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I just checked, and the answer is... it depends. If the related tables are in a back-end and you set up the relationships in the front-end using linked tables, then when you copy/add one table, rename the original and then rename the copy/additional table so it has the same name as the original table, the relationship will be recreated between the two tables with the original table names. This happens whether you work with the table on the one or the many side of a relationship, as long as you do all the copying/adding and renaming in the front end. If you are renaming and copying/adding tables in the back end then the relationships will be broken and NOT restored when you rename the new table so that it uses the original name. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [SMTP:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:01 AM > To: '[AccessD]' > Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes > > Group, > > If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename > it > (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with > identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon May 10 11:03:29 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:03:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82CD@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I can't help thinking that its got to have something to do with the fact you are joining tables on a date field. For obvious reasons fields used to join tables have to have exactly the same value in order to make the join. Typically we use AutoNumber fields for the task. Are you SURE that all the date fields you are using for the join only contain a date, and that none of them also have a time in the field? If you have two date values that are one second off then you won't achieve a join. Of all the "natural" keys you might choose, I'm inclined to think that Dates are amongst the least suitable. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark A Matte [SMTP:markamatte at hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > Hello All, > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is date oriented. > > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. All of these > queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to join to a date query(on a > date field) that includes all dates even if there is no data in one of the > > other queries. > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring any rows back > when joined to the date query even though there are matching records. > Each > query has at least 1 expression, whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF > statement. The problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). > The > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. If I remove > > any 3 of these statements...the query joins fine. It doesn't matter which > 3 > I remove...as long as there is only 1 remaining. > > If I create a table with the output of the problem query...the table joins > > fine with the date query. > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue with joining > queries when IIF statements are used. > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even reference the > date field in question...the query groups on the date and that is all. > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > _________________________________________________________________ > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life > Events. > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 12:14:02 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:14:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: >> If you are renaming and copying/adding tables in the back end then the relationships will be broken and NOT restored when you rename the new table so that it uses the original name. << Even if the relationships ARE defined in the back end? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes I just checked, and the answer is... it depends. If the related tables are in a back-end and you set up the relationships in the front-end using linked tables, then when you copy/add one table, rename the original and then rename the copy/additional table so it has the same name as the original table, the relationship will be recreated between the two tables with the original table names. This happens whether you work with the table on the one or the many side of a relationship, as long as you do all the copying/adding and renaming in the front end. If you are renaming and copying/adding tables in the back end then the relationships will be broken and NOT restored when you rename the new table so that it uses the original name. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [SMTP:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:01 AM > To: '[AccessD]' > Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes > > Group, > > If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename > it > (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with > identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 10 12:19:54 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:19:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Patti, Your first scenario is the applicable one. They are all saved queries. The only difference in the queries is number of expressions in each. Even the query in question will work in the join if I remove the extra IIF statements...and it doesn't matter which ones I remove...as long as I only leave one. Before the join...the query runs fine with output as expected. The SQL below might help in painting the picture: ***If this is a saved query...and it is joined to the saved date query...there are no matching records ******************************** SELECT tblOneSource.closed_date, Sum(IIf([rc_status]="cls",1,0)) AS ClosedSaved, Sum(IIf([rc_status]="cll",1,0)) AS ClosedLost FROM tblOneSource INNER JOIN tblWorker AS tblWorker_1 ON tblOneSource.CaseRowAdded = tblWorker_1.oprid WHERE (((tblOneSource.rc_status) Like "c*")) GROUP BY tblOneSource.closed_date, tblOneSource.case_type, tblWorker_1.deptid HAVING (((tblOneSource.case_type)="md") AND ((tblWorker_1.deptid)="OS")); **************** ***If this is a saved query...and it is joined to the saved date query...there are matching records *************** SELECT tblOneSource.closed_date, Sum(IIf([rc_status]="cls",1,0)) AS ClosedSaved FROM tblOneSource INNER JOIN tblWorker AS tblWorker_1 ON tblOneSource.CaseRowAdded = tblWorker_1.oprid WHERE (((tblOneSource.rc_status) Like "c*")) GROUP BY tblOneSource.closed_date, tblOneSource.case_type, tblWorker_1.deptid HAVING (((tblOneSource.case_type)="md") AND ((tblWorker_1.deptid)="OS")); *************** I can remove either of the IIF statements...and the query will join fine...any ideas? Thanks, Mark >From: "O'Connor, Patricia " >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Join not working >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:47:30 -0400 > >Mark > >Is the date query you are talking about a saved query that you bring in >along with the calculate query into a new 3rd query? > SavedDateQuery -> SavedCalcquery > >OR are you trying to do the date query while doing the calculation >query. Sql and specially Access gets confused sometimes on what it is >trying to pull. > >I have found that creating intermediate temporary tables have been the >only way to accomplish some routines. The other is using parenthesis to >force one to be done before the other. > >Patti > >****************************************************************** >*Patricia O'Connor >*Associate Computer Programmer Analyst >*OTDA - BDMA >*(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us >*(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us >****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Mark A Matte > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > > > Hello All, > > > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is > > date oriented. > > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. > > All of these queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to > > join to a date query(on a date field) that includes all dates > > even if there is no data in one of the other queries. > > > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring > > any rows back when joined to the date query even though there > > are matching records. Each query has at least 1 expression, > > whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF statement. The > > problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). The > > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. > > If I remove any 3 of these statements...the query joins > > fine. It doesn't matter which 3 I remove...as long as there > > is only 1 remaining. > > > > If I create a table with the output of the problem > > query...the table joins fine with the date query. > > > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue > > with joining queries when IIF statements are used. > > > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even > > reference the date field in question...the query groups on > > the date and that is all. > > > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at > > MSN Life Events. > > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 10 12:25:59 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:25:59 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Lambert, For what I am trying to accomplish...dates are the key I must use. If I limit myself to only 1 IIF statement in the query...it joins fine...it is when I use more than 1 IIF statement that it does not find matching records( the IIF does not evaluate, compare, or even reference the date field in question)...and they are all dates...no time included. Thanks, Mark >From: "Heenan, Lambert" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Join not working >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:03:29 -0400 > >I can't help thinking that its got to have something to do with the fact >you >are joining tables on a date field. For obvious reasons fields used to join >tables have to have exactly the same value in order to make the join. >Typically we use AutoNumber fields for the task. > >Are you SURE that all the date fields you are using for the join only >contain a date, and that none of them also have a time in the field? If you >have two date values that are one second off then you won't achieve a join. > >Of all the "natural" keys you might choose, I'm inclined to think that >Dates >are amongst the least suitable. > >Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark A Matte [SMTP:markamatte at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > > > Hello All, > > > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is date >oriented. > > > > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. All of >these > > queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to join to a date query(on a > > date field) that includes all dates even if there is no data in one of >the > > > > other queries. > > > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring any rows back > > when joined to the date query even though there are matching records. > > Each > > query has at least 1 expression, whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an >IIF > > statement. The problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). > > The > > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. If I >remove > > > > any 3 of these statements...the query joins fine. It doesn't matter >which > > 3 > > I remove...as long as there is only 1 remaining. > > > > If I create a table with the output of the problem query...the table >joins > > > > fine with the date query. > > > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue with joining > > queries when IIF statements are used. > > > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even reference >the > > date field in question...the query groups on the date and that is all. > > > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life > > Events. > > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 13:38:55 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:38:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Message-ID: Group, Is there any way to bypass the "compact on close" programmatically? Based on an earlier suggestion, I added code to check "where" the front end was being opened. If local, fine, otherwise quit. But I'd like the file to just quit as soon as possible without performing a compact. Is this possible? Mark From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 14:48:53 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:48:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Message-ID: Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Mon May 10 15:11:12 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:11:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Message-ID: Hopefully this can help you get started. I have it in my splash screen. 'Now if the user is marked as being a programmer ask what mode to open application con = setconnection con.Open cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "'" cmdtext = cmdtext & " AND" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer<>0;" rs.Open cmdtext, con If Not rs.EOF And Not rs.BOF Then 'User is a programmer rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Open Application for Repairs/Debugging?" myresponse = MsgBox(mymessage, 36, "Question") 'Close the connection con.Close If myresponse = 6 Then 'Open application in design mode - ansewered yes to question mymessage = "Opening Application in Design Mode." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please don't hurt me to much." ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, True DoCmd.ShowToolbar "Menu Bar" MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmSplash" Exit Sub Else 'Open in normal mode - ansewered no to question mymessage = "Opening Application for Normal Use." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Have a nice day." MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Else con.Close cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "';" con = setconnection con.Open rs.Open cmdtext, con rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "I have determined that you are an authorized user." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please feel free to proceed and have a nice day." 'Close the connection con.Close ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Application.SetOption "Error Trapping", 2 MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As DAO.database Dim prp As DAO.Property Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/10/2004 02:48 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 17:15:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:15:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Message-ID: Application.SetOption "Auto Compact", False Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:39 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Group, Is there any way to bypass the "compact on close" programmatically? Based on an earlier suggestion, I added code to check "where" the front end was being opened. If local, fine, otherwise quit. But I'd like the file to just quit as soon as possible without performing a compact. Is this possible? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 10 18:39:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:39:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties In-Reply-To: <26905180.1084220391336.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000f01c436e8$1a651040$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, I use code very similar to this, but as part of Administrative functions, not in the startup routine. Changing the database properties takes effect only after you exit out and re-open your system. The changes will then apply to everyone who opens the database. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Hopefully this can help you get started. I have it in my splash screen. 'Now if the user is marked as being a programmer ask what mode to open application con = setconnection con.Open cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "'" cmdtext = cmdtext & " AND" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer<>0;" rs.Open cmdtext, con If Not rs.EOF And Not rs.BOF Then 'User is a programmer rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Open Application for Repairs/Debugging?" myresponse = MsgBox(mymessage, 36, "Question") 'Close the connection con.Close If myresponse = 6 Then 'Open application in design mode - ansewered yes to question mymessage = "Opening Application in Design Mode." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please don't hurt me to much." ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, True DoCmd.ShowToolbar "Menu Bar" MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmSplash" Exit Sub Else 'Open in normal mode - ansewered no to question mymessage = "Opening Application for Normal Use." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Have a nice day." MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Else con.Close cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "';" con = setconnection con.Open rs.Open cmdtext, con rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "I have determined that you are an authorized user." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please feel free to proceed and have a nice day." 'Close the connection con.Close ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Application.SetOption "Error Trapping", 2 MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As DAO.database Dim prp As DAO.Property Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/10/2004 02:48 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 10 18:39:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:39:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report In-Reply-To: <4284156.1084195404798.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001001c436e8$1ae563d0$de1811d8@danwaters> Thanks Mark! I didn't know of that command. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Wild guess...Could you loop through the affected controls and "DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSendToBack"? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Circle Method on report A.D. - Thanks! I'll try it out today. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Mon May 10 19:34:10 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:34:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Parts Cross Reference Table Structure In-Reply-To: <001001c436e8$1ae563d0$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: What would be the best way to tie in a Part Number Cross Ref. to an existing parts database system? Table Suggestion? Functional Suggestions? Thanks Robert Gracie From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 06:59:17 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:59:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Message-ID: Jeffrey, that is precisely what I'm trying to do...thanks. I'm using a launcher application to open the front end so your approach should work just fine for me. It appears that you are doing the same...is this correct? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Mark, I use code very similar to this, but as part of Administrative functions, not in the startup routine. Changing the database properties takes effect only after you exit out and re-open your system. The changes will then apply to everyone who opens the database. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Hopefully this can help you get started. I have it in my splash screen. 'Now if the user is marked as being a programmer ask what mode to open application con = setconnection con.Open cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "'" cmdtext = cmdtext & " AND" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer<>0;" rs.Open cmdtext, con If Not rs.EOF And Not rs.BOF Then 'User is a programmer rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Open Application for Repairs/Debugging?" myresponse = MsgBox(mymessage, 36, "Question") 'Close the connection con.Close If myresponse = 6 Then 'Open application in design mode - ansewered yes to question mymessage = "Opening Application in Design Mode." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please don't hurt me to much." ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, True DoCmd.ShowToolbar "Menu Bar" MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmSplash" Exit Sub Else 'Open in normal mode - ansewered no to question mymessage = "Opening Application for Normal Use." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Have a nice day." MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Else con.Close cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "';" con = setconnection con.Open rs.Open cmdtext, con rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "I have determined that you are an authorized user." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please feel free to proceed and have a nice day." 'Close the connection con.Close ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Application.SetOption "Error Trapping", 2 MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As DAO.database Dim prp As DAO.Property Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/10/2004 02:48 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 07:13:59 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:13:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Message-ID: Charlotte, Well that explains it...thank you. A search on the object browser using 'compact' and 'options' had yielded nothing useful. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Application.SetOption "Auto Compact", False Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:39 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Group, Is there any way to bypass the "compact on close" programmatically? Based on an earlier suggestion, I added code to check "where" the front end was being opened. If local, fine, otherwise quit. But I'd like the file to just quit as soon as possible without performing a compact. Is this possible? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 11 08:22:25 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 06:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: <20040511132225.16355.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot open the database window. In order to see the database window I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. This application is so worthless that the users need access to the database window in order to work with the application (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) How is it possible that I do not see the database window (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Tue May 11 08:51:41 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:51:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: Ran into this last month. The database window is probably hidden in a lower quadrant. Go into the application go to toolbar WINDOWS select tile - the database window should appear. Move it to the upper left quadrant of screen and close . When you open it should be where you can see it. HTH Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 09:22 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! > > Hi group, > > we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with > A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to > A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! > > Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot > open the database window. In order to see the database window > I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the > FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window > (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. > > This application is so worthless that the users need access > to the database window in order to work with the application > (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign > a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) > > How is it possible that I do not see the database window > (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? > > TIA > > Sander > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Tue May 11 08:58:38 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:58:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: Sander, Do you mean that in the previous version, the database container was not hidden on startup? The behavior you describe suggests that the Database Window is being hidden in code (since you can bypass the AutoExec routine by holding down the Shift key on startup). I don't recommend users poking around in the database container, but it sounds like you've been doing it for some time. Look at the AutoExec macro and see what code is executing on Startup. I'll bet that somewhere in that code is the line that hides the database container. Is it not possible to either contact the developer, or have a developer, either in your shop or from outside, look at the Access file and make the modifications you require, without sending the users to the Container? That would likely be your best bet. HTH, Steve -----S D's Original Message----- Hi group, we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot open the database window. In order to see the database window I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. This application is so worthless that the users need access to the database window in order to work with the application (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) How is it possible that I do not see the database window (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? TIA Sander From pedro at plex.nl Tue May 11 16:02:25 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:02:25 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello grooup, i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). How is this possible? I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. Pedro Janssen Cytologist From artful at rogers.com Tue May 11 10:10:04 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:10:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables In-Reply-To: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Tue May 11 10:24:13 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:24:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: I have several that do this. All the lookup tables are in dbReference. The data tables are in their own databases. I link the reference table and the data tables to the appropriate front ends. Has been working quite well for about 4 years now. It allows me to maintain the reference tables ONCE for all the systems, no need to hunt through 4 systems and determine whether they use that particular lookup. The only validation I do at the table level is default value and maybe caption but for the most part that occurs in whatever routine is receiving or sending the data. Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables > > I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. > "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to > me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one > containing only the lookup tables and the other containing > only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach > is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level > -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know > this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. > What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end > to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups > database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this > out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant > problems in this approach. > > My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can > freely nuke all the data in the data database, while > preserving all the data in the lookup database. > > Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 11 10:24:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:24:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: In A2k and later, Access does not recognize files with odd extensions as text files, so it regards them as read-only. There are registry hacks you can use but in our apps, which get distributed to clients all over the world, we decided that it was not our place to meddle with the clients settings that way, so we switched to txt extensions for all our text files. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Hello grooup, i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). How is this possible? I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. Pedro Janssen Cytologist -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:25:31 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:25:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: I'm reaching back towards my limited knowledge of theory, but if I understand what you are saying, then your lookup tables represent changing business rules. In this case, I believe it is a classic interpretation of a three-tier system, where data, business rules, and user interface are all separated. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 11 10:35:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:35:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables In-Reply-To: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> Message-ID: One immediate issue is relational integrity. You (your users) can now delete lookup records that are used in data tables, thus creating "orphans". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 11 10:30:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:30:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: Arthur, You can do it the way you envision and shouldn't have a bunch of problems ... Unless you get tangled in replication. I've often built applications on this 3-database plan, but you need more robust code for handling relinking and testing the links, since testing only one database or relinking only one isn't enough. We do something similar with our commercial apps in this company, so I know it works on a broad scale. I must admit that I haven't tried it with MDEs, though, so maybe someone else can contribute on that point. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:40:34 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: Two work-arounds come to mind. First: shell out rename the file complete the transfer shell out rename the file back again Second: shell out copy the file to a temp file with .txt extension complete the transfer shell out kill the temp file Mark -----Original Message----- From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Hello grooup, i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). How is this possible? I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. Pedro Janssen Cytologist -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 11 10:47:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:47:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6433329905.20040511174705@cactus.dk> Hi Mark No need to "shell out" to do that ... /gustav > Two work-arounds come to mind. > First: > shell out > rename the file > complete the transfer > shell out > rename the file back again > Second: > shell out > copy the file to a temp file with .txt extension > complete the transfer > shell out > kill the temp file > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import > Hello grooup, > i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to > A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a > macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a > filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal > textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. > Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In > A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to > ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > How is this possible? > I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because > these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and > different actions. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:56:50 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:56:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: True...my apologies. "Shell" was stuck in my mind because I was recently working on that ShellExecute situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Hi Mark No need to "shell out" to do that ... /gustav > Two work-arounds come to mind. > First: > shell out > rename the file > complete the transfer > shell out > rename the file back again > Second: > shell out > copy the file to a temp file with .txt extension > complete the transfer > shell out > kill the temp file > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import > Hello grooup, > i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to > A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a > macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a > filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal > textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. > Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In > A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to > ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > How is this possible? > I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because > these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and > different actions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 11 11:43:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:43:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables In-Reply-To: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> References: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <13536739298.20040511184354@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur I've never understood the concept of "lookup" tables. To me data are either user/organization specific or application specific. The idea of tables with "data that never changes" like postal codes (which do change) is doomed to fail. Application specific data that change only by a version change can be held within the application itself. In some cases the application specific data can change more often or may be independent of the application version. One example of this is an application we build for handling payments and transfer to the client's on-line banking system. Here we have six different systems used be many hundreds of banks. The mix of banks and systems and im/export routines changes rarely but will change over the years and banks will open, close or merge. We chose to put this list in a separate write protected database named ...sys.mda to be put in the same folder as the application which automatically relinks the tables at launch. It is only used as a convenience for the user who now only has to pick the bank(s) he/she uses, then everything else is set right for the application. This system allows us to send an update for either the system database or the application or both. The about box in the application tells, of course, the version numbers of the app and of the sysbase. The user only needs to backup the true database backend. If this approach is what you have in mind, I can recommend it. /gustav > I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. > "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I > could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the > lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I > don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can > at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I > know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. > What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data > database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to > build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can > see any significant problems in this approach. > My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all > the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the > lookup database. > Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) > Arthur From gdb at AllenandAllen.com Tue May 11 12:05:33 2004 From: gdb at AllenandAllen.com (Boehm, Gary D.) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:05:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 11 12:32:29 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:32:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SR level of Office References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908870F@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <40A10E2D.7060807@shaw.ca> From the MS dll help database for msaccess.exe http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http%3a%2f%2fsupport.microsoft.com%2fservicedesks%2ffileversion%2fdllinfo.asp&fp=1 Here are the SP versions for Access It skips some Version numbers like Office 2000 SP2 and Office 2003 beta Maybe the Office 2000 SP2 download is no longer available, I haven't checked. File Name Version More Information Description msaccess.exe 9.0.0.6620 More Information Microsoft Access for Windows 2000 SP3 msaccess.exe 9.0.0.3822 More Information Microsoft Access for Windows 2000 SP1 msaccess.exe 9.0.0.2719 More Information Microsoft Access for Windows 2000 standard msaccess.exe 8.0.0.5903 More Information Microsoft Access 97 SP2 msaccess.exe 8.0.0.4122 More Information Microsoft Access 97 SP1 msaccess.exe 8.0.0.3512 More Information Microsoft Access 97 standard msaccess.exe 11.0.5614.0 More Information Microsoft Office Access 2003 msaccess.exe 10.0.4302.0 More Information Microsoft Access XP SP2 msaccess.exe 10.0.3409.0 More Information Microsoft Access XP SP1 msaccess.exe 10.0.2627.1 More Information Microsoft Access XP standard msaccess.exe More Information Access 2.0 Here is some quick and dirty code to get ALL Access versions installed on the machine No matter where the user has stuffed them. ie. in \MySpecial\OfficeAccessDirectory ie Version 8.0.0.5903 is Access 97 SP-2 However newer versions of McAfee Ver 8.0 will cough and splutter on this and complain about running scripts. I could switch this code to use API calls instead of WSH Sub tryver() Dim i As Long Dim strPath As String Dim strVersion As String For i = 8 To 11 strPath = GetAccessPath(i) strVersion = GetVersion(strPath) If Len(strPath) Then MsgBox "Microsoft Access version " & strVersion & " is installed at" _ & strPath, 64, "Found It" End If Next End Sub Function GetAccessPath(Version As Long) As String Dim wsh As Object Dim strValue As String On Error Resume Next Set wsh = CreateObject("Wscript.Shell") strValue = wsh.RegRead("HKCR\Access.Application." & Version & _ "\Shell\Open\Command\") GetAccessPath = StripIt(strValue) End Function Function StripIt(Arg As String) As String 'Removes any command line parameters or quotes from the string If InStr(Arg, "/") > 0 Then StripIt = Trim(Left(Arg, InStr(Arg, "/") - 1)) Else StripIt = Arg End If If Left(StripIt, 1) = Chr(34) Then StripIt = Mid(StripIt, 2) End If If Right(StripIt, 1) = Chr(34) Then StripIt = Left(StripIt, Len(StripIt) - 1) End If End Function Function GetVersion(FilePath) As String 'Returns version for FilePath Dim fso As Object Dim temp As String On Error Resume Next Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") temp = fso.GetFileVersion(FilePath) If Len(temp) Then GetVersion = temp Else GetVersion = 0 End If End Function Stephen Bond wrote: >The construct SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) gets me the Access version I am running. I have looked thru SysCmd and can't find how to determine the patch level. > >I want to disable some command buttons whose underlying code depends on Access 2000 being patched to service pack 3. > >Any ideas? > >Stephen Bond > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 11 13:01:48 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:01:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import References: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <40A1150C.4060807@shaw.ca> This is Microsoft being helpful, I have forgotten the exact reason. The behaviour may have been switched back with the latest Jet release However in the meantime just use the Name As statement before and after you call the macro to rename the file or put in a function called from macro. You will get an error if file doesn't exist or is open. Name "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.gyn" As "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.txt" pedro at plex.nl wrote: >Hello grooup, > >i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > >How is this possible? >I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. > > >Pedro Janssen >Cytologist > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From lists at theopg.com Tue May 11 13:48:12 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:48:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <40A10E2D.7060807@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Hello folks... Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... E.g. Code Parent 1 1.1 1 1.2 1 1.3 1 1.2.1 1.2 1.2.2 1.2 1.1.1 1.1 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 Etc. becomes something like L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a value in level 5 etc. The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is driven primarily by saved SQL strings... Any ideas ??? Cheers Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 11 14:30:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:30:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Message-ID: <2446735211.20040511213030@cactus.dk> Hi Mark How about Select Left(Code, 1) As L1, Left(Code, 3) As L2, Left(Code, 5) As L3, Left(Code, 7) As L4, Left(Code, 9) As L5 From tblCodes; It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... /gustav > Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't > figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which > are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 > columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for that > level, but all the codes from the higher levels... > E.g. > Code Parent > 1 > 1.1 1 > 1.2 1 > 1.3 1 > 1.2.1 1.2 > 1.2.2 1.2 > 1.1.1 1.1 > 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 > 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 > Etc. becomes something like > L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 > 1 1 1 1 1 > 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 > 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 > This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up to > selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. Some > code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a value > in level 5 etc. > The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where > the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. > Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid > temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as > (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is > driven primarily by saved SQL strings... > Any ideas ??? > Cheers > Mark From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Tue May 11 15:06:53 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:06:53 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] SR level of Office Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F29088719@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> As usual, the list delivers. Thanks Marty. Adult beverages next time I'm visiting Victoria (cousin is a prof at the university). Stephen Bond Otatara, New Zealand > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 5:32 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SR level of Office > > > From the MS dll help database for msaccess.exe > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http%3a%2f%2fsu > pport.microsoft.com%2fservicedesks%2ffileversion%2fdllinfo.asp&fp=1 > Here are the SP versions for Access > It skips some Version numbers like Office 2000 SP2 and > Office 2003 beta > Maybe the Office 2000 SP2 download is no longer available, I haven't > checked. > > File Name Version More Information Description > msaccess.exe 9.0.0.6620 More Information > Microsoft Access > for Windows 2000 SP3 > msaccess.exe 9.0.0.3822 More Information > Microsoft Access > for Windows 2000 SP1 > > From pedro at plex.nl Tue May 11 13:46:59 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:46:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import References: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> <40A1150C.4060807@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <00d101c43797$111bcb00$f7c581d5@pedro> Hello, thanks to all who made clear why this error occurred and helping with suggesting to solve the problem. Renaming the file and name it back is a simple but effective solution. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import > This is Microsoft being helpful, I have forgotten the exact reason. The > behaviour may have been switched back with the latest Jet release > However in the meantime just use the Name As statement before and after > you call the macro to rename the file or put in a function called from > macro. > You will get an error if file doesn't exist or is open. > > Name "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.gyn" As "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.txt" > > pedro at plex.nl wrote: > > >Hello grooup, > > > >i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > > > >How is this possible? > >I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. > > > > > >Pedro Janssen > >Cytologist > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From lists at theopg.com Tue May 11 16:00:09 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:00:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <2446735211.20040511213030@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> That was my very first choice :@) - problem is though that I can't rely on the length as some branches are complex, e.g. 1.1.23.210.1 I even created a query for each level, e.g. like *.* and not like *.*.* but that also gave me problems :@( Thanks anyway Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 11 May 2004 20:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query Hi Mark How about Select Left(Code, 1) As L1, Left(Code, 3) As L2, Left(Code, 5) As L3, Left(Code, 7) As L4, Left(Code, 9) As L5 From tblCodes; It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... /gustav > Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't > figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which > are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 > columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for > that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... > E.g. > Code Parent > 1 > 1.1 1 > 1.2 1 > 1.3 1 > 1.2.1 1.2 > 1.2.2 1.2 > 1.1.1 1.1 > 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 > 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 > Etc. becomes something like > L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 > 1 1 1 1 1 > 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 > 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 > This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up > to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. > Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a > value in level 5 etc. > The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where > the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. > Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid > temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as > (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is > driven primarily by saved SQL strings... > Any ideas ??? > Cheers > Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 11 17:34:17 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:34:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <2446735211.20040511213030@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <40A1E189.16690.2DD278@localhost> > Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't > figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which > are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 > columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for > that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... > E.g. > Code Parent > 1 > 1.1 1 > 1.2 1 > 1.3 1 > 1.2.1 1.2 > 1.2.2 1.2 > 1.1.1 1.1 > 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 > 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 > Etc. becomes something like > L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 > 1 1 1 1 1 > 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 > 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 > > This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up > > to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. > > Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a > > > value in level 5 etc. > > > The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where > > the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. > > > Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid > > temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as > > (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is > > driven primarily by saved SQL strings... > Use a function to extract the code segments? Function LevelCode(Code As String, Position As Long) As Double 'return double rather than string so that sorting works Position = Position - 1 'Split returns 0 based array Dim strSegment() As String strSegment = Split(Code, ".") If Position > UBound(strSegment) Then Position = UBound(strSegment) End If LevelCode = CDbl(strSegment(Position)) End Function Then you can: Select LevelCode(Code,1) as Level1, LevelCode(Code,2) as Level2..... -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lists at theopg.com Tue May 11 13:48:12 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:48:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <40A10E2D.7060807@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Hello folks... Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... E.g. Code Parent 1 1.1 1 1.2 1 1.3 1 1.2.1 1.2 1.2.2 1.2 1.1.1 1.1 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 Etc. becomes something like L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a value in level 5 etc. The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is driven primarily by saved SQL strings... Any ideas ??? Cheers Mark From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue May 11 22:56:27 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:56:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work Message-ID: <00d501c437d6$b8b64ae0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of a particular date appear in a table In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it keeps showing 0 (Zero) Dim intX As integer intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) MsgBox intX The table tblOffences is an existing table the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) I have checked spelling of field names many times and have even copied and pasted the field names to guarantee spelling. I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. Just can't get it to work Any suggestions? Many thanks Darren From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue May 11 23:38:06 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 04:38:06 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: Hello All, After reading everyone's response...I see the benefit to each suggestion...but the reason listed below puzzles me. When you say 'nuke' the data...do you mean deleting all rows?..and if so...why not just delete from the tables you want. I do something similar...on a smaller scale(30 to 40 concurrent users). FE on the user machine...BE on the network...when the FE opens...it checks for a new FE...copies down if so...if not checks links...relinks as necessary...and if it is the first time they are launching today...it copies all lookup tables from the BE to the FE...and all lookups are done locally. Initial startup takes about 20 seconds...but this is acceptable for my users. I did this for speed of the lookups...and didn't see the need to put in a 3rd db. Not sure if it is even relevent since I don't understand the reason. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:10:04 -0400 > >I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. >"data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I >could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the >lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I >don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can >at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I >know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. >What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data >database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to >build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can >see any significant problems in this approach. > >My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all >the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the >lookup database. > >Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Tue May 11 23:58:15 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:58:15 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908871B@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this is off the top of my head, is that some expressions require dates to be in US format, so you may have to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember Stephen Bond NZ > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > Hello all > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > a particular date appear in a table > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > Dim intX As integer > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > MsgBox intX > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > even copied and pasted > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > Just can't get it to work > > Any suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 12 00:06:40 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:06:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908871B@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <015801c437de$e961baa0$48619a89@DDICK> Thanks for the reply Stephen No joy on the Hash character :-(( The date format doesn't change it either ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bond" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). > so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" > 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this > is off the top of my head, is that some expressions > require dates to be in US format, so you may have > to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") > > This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember > > Stephen Bond > NZ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > > To: AccessD List > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > Hello all > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > > a particular date appear in a table > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > Dim intX As integer > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > MsgBox intX > > > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > > even copied and pasted > > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > > > Just can't get it to work > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 00:30:14 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040512053014.90567.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Stephen, that's exactly what I mean, the users need the database container. There's no where in the code anything that hides the db container. About you're recomendation...I know! I've told about this app on this list before and it's horrible however the customer is satisfied with it and will not invest an eurocent to improve it. Oh, BTW I'm the developer how inherited this this .... 'application' thanx anyway. Sander PS: did I mention that this app handles CORE-BUSINESS?! "Pickering, Stephen" wrote: Sander, Do you mean that in the previous version, the database container was not hidden on startup? The behavior you describe suggests that the Database Window is being hidden in code (since you can bypass the AutoExec routine by holding down the Shift key on startup). I don't recommend users poking around in the database container, but it sounds like you've been doing it for some time. Look at the AutoExec macro and see what code is executing on Startup. I'll bet that somewhere in that code is the line that hides the database container. Is it not possible to either contact the developer, or have a developer, either in your shop or from outside, look at the Access file and make the modifications you require, without sending the users to the Container? That would likely be your best bet. HTH, Steve -----S D's Original Message----- Hi group, we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot open the database window. In order to see the database window I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. This application is so worthless that the users need access to the database window in order to work with the application (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) How is it possible that I do not see the database window (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? TIA Sander -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 00:35:18 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040512053518.44060.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Patti, I don't think this will work because the menu is also different from standard...I'll give it go anyway. Regards, Sander PS: there is no code in the app that changes the layout of the menu's "O'Connor, Patricia " wrote: Ran into this last month. The database window is probably hidden in a lower quadrant. Go into the application go to toolbar WINDOWS select tile - the database window should appear. Move it to the upper left quadrant of screen and close . When you open it should be where you can see it. HTH Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 09:22 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! > > Hi group, > > we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with > A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to > A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! > > Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot > open the database window. In order to see the database window > I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the > FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window > (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. > > This application is so worthless that the users need access > to the database window in order to work with the application > (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign > a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) > > How is it possible that I do not see the database window > (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? > > TIA > > Sander > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 12 01:15:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:15:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work In-Reply-To: <00d501c437d6$b8b64ae0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <40A24D97.14877.1D3E4B3@localhost> On 12 May 2004 at 13:56, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of a particular date appear in a table > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > Dim intX As integer > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > MsgBox intX > Try intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Datevalue(Me!txtOffenceDate)) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 12 01:26:53 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:26:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work References: <40A24D97.14877.1D3E4B3@localhost> Message-ID: <01ad01c437ea$1d9f4a70$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Stuart No Joy But the good news is Stephen Bond gave me an example off list and it works well Many thanks for the response Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > On 12 May 2004 at 13:56, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hello all > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of a particular date appear in a table > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > Dim intX As integer > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > MsgBox intX > > > > Try > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & > Datevalue(Me!txtOffenceDate)) > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 12 02:02:31 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:02:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work In-Reply-To: <015801c437de$e961baa0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000001c437ef$181b4bd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hi Darren I think you need both of Stephen's suggestions. Try this: intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = #" & Format(Me!txtOffenceDate,"mm/dd/yy") & "#") Have a great day. SYWWE -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 12 May 2004 06:07 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > Thanks for the reply Stephen > No joy on the Hash character :-(( > > The date format doesn't change it either > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Bond" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:58 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). > > so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" > > 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this > > is off the top of my head, is that some expressions > > require dates to be in US format, so you may have > > to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") > > > > This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember > > > > Stephen Bond > > NZ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > > > To: AccessD List > > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > > > > Hello all > > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > > > a particular date appear in a table > > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > > > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > > > Dim intX As integer > > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > > > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > > MsgBox intX > > > > > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > > > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > > > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > > > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > > > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > > > > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > > > even copied and pasted > > > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > > > > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > > > > > Just can't get it to work > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Wed May 12 03:01:19 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:01:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECC11@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 02:41:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:41:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <312555825.20040512094124@cactus.dk> Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 03:51:00 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:51:00 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] For .Net freaks: Mono beta is out Message-ID: <1056731719.20040512105100@cactus.dk> Hi all For those who don't know, Mono is an open source project that aims to create cross-platform versions of: - a C# compiler - the Common Language Runtime (CLR) - most of the .NET Framework's class library, including ADO.NET and ASP.NET ASP.NET (including both Web Forms and Web Services) is advertised as being fully functional. The Mono project, which is sponsored by Novell (who bought out Ximian last year), have two more beta releases planned before the final release of Mono 1.0 on or about June 30, 2004. http://www.go-mono.com/ http://www.go-mono.com/download.html /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 05:34:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:34:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Message-ID: <14912948869.20040512123437@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > That was my very first choice :@) - problem is though that I can't rely > on the length as some branches are complex, e.g. 1.1.23.210.1 > I even created a query for each level, e.g. like *.* and not like *.*.* > but that also gave me problems :@( Well, why didn't you tell that initially? Try this: Select Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 1 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L1, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 2 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L2, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 3 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L3, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 4 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L4, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 5 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L5 From tblCodes; This assumes A2000+ or a substitute for Replace(). /gustav > How about > > Select > Left(Code, 1) As L1, > Left(Code, 3) As L2, > Left(Code, 5) As L3, > Left(Code, 7) As L4, > Left(Code, 9) As L5 > From > tblCodes; > > It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... > /gustav >> Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't >> figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which >> are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 >> columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for >> that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... >> E.g. >> Code Parent >> 1 >> 1.1 1 >> 1.2 1 >> 1.3 1 >> 1.2.1 1.2 >> 1.2.2 1.2 >> 1.1.1 1.1 >> 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 >> 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 >> Etc. becomes something like >> L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 >> 1 1 1 1 1 >> 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 >> 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 >> This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up >> to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. >> Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a >> value in level 5 etc. >> The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where >> the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. >> Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid >> temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as >> (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is >> driven primarily by saved SQL strings... From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 06:59:45 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:59:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Hi All, I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) up to an event procedure. I.e. frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... Can anyone help? TIA Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed May 12 07:03:45 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:33:45 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] OT: For .Net freaks: Mono beta is out Message-ID: Groovy. Will be interesting to see how it goes. A -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 6:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] For .Net freaks: Mono beta is out Hi all For those who don't know, Mono is an open source project that aims to create cross-platform versions of: - a C# compiler - the Common Language Runtime (CLR) - most of the .NET Framework's class library, including ADO.NET and ASP.NET ASP.NET (including both Web Forms and Web Services) is advertised as being fully functional. The Mono project, which is sponsored by Novell (who bought out Ximian last year), have two more beta releases planned before the final release of Mono 1.0 on or about June 30, 2004. http://www.go-mono.com/ http://www.go-mono.com/download.html /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 07:12:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:12:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too much type ahead in RTF box Message-ID: <7118833761.20040512141242@cactus.dk> Hi all A client has an A97 app where they can type in formatted comments in an RTF box bound to a memo field. The box is the standard MS Rich Text Box. OS is Win98. It works fine except that some users claim that they occasionally experience that they can type the first line beyond the right side of the frame - the line is not broken until they do something else (click another control, browse records, select menu etc.). I cannot replicate the error here and have no idea what to look for or where to look for a solution. Has anyone seen something similar? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 07:20:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:20:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16019297298.20040512142026@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? /gustav > I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) > up to an event procedure. > I.e. > frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" > Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I > change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens > the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). > I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 07:36:07 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:36:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Yes it has Gustav. Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:20 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? /gustav > I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) > up to an event procedure. > I.e. > frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" > Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I > change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens > the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). > I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 07:44:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:44:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <920761703.20040512144450@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 12 07:39:35 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:39:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work References: <000001c437ef$181b4bd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <006401c4381f$7e98c7e0$12669a89@DDICK> Hi Andy Thanks for the response Yep that's what I actually put in place. Thanks to Stephen - Yes I will SYWYE DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > Hi Darren > > I think you need both of Stephen's suggestions. Try this: > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = #" & > Format(Me!txtOffenceDate,"mm/dd/yy") & "#") > > Have a great day. > SYWWE > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > > Sent: 12 May 2004 06:07 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > Thanks for the reply Stephen > > No joy on the Hash character :-(( > > > > The date format doesn't change it either > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen Bond" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:58 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > > 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). > > > so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" > > > 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this > > > is off the top of my head, is that some expressions > > > require dates to be in US format, so you may have > > > to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") > > > > > > This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember > > > > > > Stephen Bond > > > NZ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > > > > To: AccessD List > > > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all > > > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > > > > a particular date appear in a table > > > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > > > > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > > > > > Dim intX As integer > > > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > > > > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > > > MsgBox intX > > > > > > > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > > > > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > > > > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > > > > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > > > > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > > > > > > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > > > > even copied and pasted > > > > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > > > > > > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > > > > > > > Just can't get it to work > > > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gdb at AllenandAllen.com Wed May 12 07:54:12 2004 From: gdb at AllenandAllen.com (Boehm, Gary D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:54:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 08:41:17 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:41:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 12 08:55:05 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:55:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Gary, here's how to combine two fields into one. Watch for line wrap. FullName: [tblName]![LastName] & ", " & [tblName]![FirstName] Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gdb at AllenandAllen.com Wed May 12 09:06:50 2004 From: gdb at AllenandAllen.com (Boehm, Gary D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:06:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Thanks Mark. Is that a new field in the query or a field in the report? Gary -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Gary, here's how to combine two fields into one. Watch for line wrap. FullName: [tblName]![LastName] & ", " & [tblName]![FirstName] Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 12 09:06:09 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:06:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Query. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thanks Mark. Is that a new field in the query or a field in the report? Gary -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Gary, here's how to combine two fields into one. Watch for line wrap. FullName: [tblName]![LastName] & ", " & [tblName]![FirstName] Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 09:10:27 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:10:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <312555825.20040512094124@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Could this be a response to the lack of good support staff in companies these days? I can't imagine FMS would spend the money to create and market this item unless they had at first conducted some market research supporting the need for it. But, then again, at that cost how many would they really have to sell to cover their cost? :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 09:27:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:27:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15826947668.20040512162756@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan OK. No more ideas, except that I remember some add-in which would "reattach" missing [Event Procedure] settings. It may have been from Smart Access. It could give you some hints but I can't find it. /gustav > Yes it does Gustav, > The code is also programatically created.. > It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event > procedure...and being able to save it?! > Thanks > Ryan From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 12 10:21:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:21:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: FMS seems to make products primarily aimed at wannabe developers who don't have the knowledge to do it themselves and don't know any better than to spend that much money. I stopped buying their stuff years ago when they first became drastically overpriced and overloaded with "features" I had no use for. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 12 10:31:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:31:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAE90@main2.marlow.com> LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 11:09:32 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:09:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Thanks Gustav, I'll have a look for that. Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 15:27 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan OK. No more ideas, except that I remember some add-in which would "reattach" missing [Event Procedure] settings. It may have been from Smart Access. It could give you some hints but I can't find it. /gustav > Yes it does Gustav, > The code is also programatically created.. > It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event > procedure...and being able to save it?! > Thanks > Ryan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed May 12 11:19:37 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:19:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to do it manually. Any help greatly appreciated. TIA Jeff Barrows From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed May 12 11:31:41 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:31:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <30513623.1084376176046.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000301c4383e$9bc93880$de1811d8@danwaters> In Defense Of: FMS Hey! I like the Access Analyzer program. Even if I knew how, could I make my own in 4 - 6 hours? No. Great error catcher and time saver! FMS is just doing what any company SHOULD do - look for a customer need for a product in the same market scope. They must have good reason to believe that this will sell and be useful to someone (even at this price!). I'm sure part of their activity is based on their market for Analyzer and their other products being already saturated. I do like Analyzer! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 11:38:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:38:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <14834801622.20040512183850@cactus.dk> Hi Jeff The easiest method is to duplicate the report and set the dupe to print to a specific printer (your fax printer). Not very fancy, but it is bulletproof. /gustav > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer default to go > to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to do it manually. > Any help greatly appreciated. > TIA > Jeff Barrows From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 12 11:44:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:44:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAE95@main2.marlow.com> I am probably a little biased, since they president of FMS came to a Metroplex Access Developers meeting, to demonstrate Analyzer. I wasn't all that impressed with what it did (because every feature he showed, I could 'see' the code used to do it, in my head), but what tipped the scales is that he handed out demo disks, of all sorts of other FMS 'tools'. I am not kidding you, I tried about 5 of them. 4 out of the 5 kicked up errors, while running as a Demo! Didn't put a lot of faith into their products for me. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In Defense Of: FMS Hey! I like the Access Analyzer program. Even if I knew how, could I make my own in 4 - 6 hours? No. Great error catcher and time saver! FMS is just doing what any company SHOULD do - look for a customer need for a product in the same market scope. They must have good reason to believe that this will sell and be useful to someone (even at this price!). I'm sure part of their activity is based on their market for Analyzer and their other products being already saturated. I do like Analyzer! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed May 12 11:46:32 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:46:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138402@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Thanks Dan... I was beginning to think I was the only one that liked FMS products. I too like the Access Analyzer, it has saved me many hours of work. I also like the Total Access Memo - it allows RFT format for memo fields, and includes the the ability to embedded charts and graphs. I also like the Access Components. The controls I use the most are the progress bar and the colored buttons. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In Defense Of: FMS Hey! I like the Access Analyzer program. Even if I knew how, could I make my own in 4 - 6 hours? No. Great error catcher and time saver! FMS is just doing what any company SHOULD do - look for a customer need for a product in the same market scope. They must have good reason to believe that this will sell and be useful to someone (even at this price!). I'm sure part of their activity is based on their market for Analyzer and their other products being already saturated. I do like Analyzer! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed May 12 12:17:41 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:17:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a501c43845$09030bf0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> >The code is also programatically created.. > >It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event >procedure...and being able to save it?! If you want to save the changes, you need to make these changes in design view. If you make them in form view, they are considered runtime changes, and are discarded when the form is closed (which also happens when you change it to design view). -Ken From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed May 12 12:33:57 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:03:57 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure References: Message-ID: <012301c43847$65463570$ef1865cb@winxp> Ryan, If you do it when the form is in design view and then Save, the effect will be permanent. The following sample code, executed from a module external to the form in question, will do the needful (CmdTest is the name of a command button on form named F_Test)- DoCmd.OpenForm "F_Test", acDesign Forms("F_Test")("CmdTest").OnClick = _ "[Event Procedure]" DoCmd.Close acForm, "F_Test", acSaveYes Could you kindly try it out and let me know ? Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 17:29 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi All, I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) up to an event procedure. I.e. frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... Can anyone help? TIA Ryan From lists at theopg.com Wed May 12 12:47:39 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:47:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <14912948869.20040512123437@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c43849$381fc230$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Sorry Gustav :@( I had tried a lot of things... This morning I gave up and resorted to using VBA to populate a table as required. It's actually (probbaly) quicker as the table only gets updated when the code structure changes and so, when running reports there is no need anymore to build the structure... Thanks again, and sorry for not being clearer... I had tried for most of the afternoon and was trying to avoid sending a huge email... Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 12 May 2004 11:35 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query Hi Mark > That was my very first choice :@) - problem is though that I can't > rely on the length as some branches are complex, e.g. 1.1.23.210.1 > I even created a query for each level, e.g. like *.* and not like > *.*.* but that also gave me problems :@( Well, why didn't you tell that initially? Try this: Select Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 1 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L1, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 2 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L2, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 3 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L3, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 4 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L4, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 5 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L5 From tblCodes; This assumes A2000+ or a substitute for Replace(). /gustav > How about > > Select > Left(Code, 1) As L1, > Left(Code, 3) As L2, > Left(Code, 5) As L3, > Left(Code, 7) As L4, > Left(Code, 9) As L5 > From > tblCodes; > > It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... > /gustav >> Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't >> figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which >> are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 >> columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for >> that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... >> E.g. >> Code Parent >> 1 >> 1.1 1 >> 1.2 1 >> 1.3 1 >> 1.2.1 1.2 >> 1.2.2 1.2 >> 1.1.1 1.1 >> 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 >> 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 >> Etc. becomes something like >> L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 >> 1 1 1 1 1 >> 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 >> 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 >> This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up >> to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. >> Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a >> value in level 5 etc. >> The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where >> the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. >> Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid >> temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as >> (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is >> driven primarily by saved SQL strings... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 12:46:02 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:46:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138402@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 12 13:06:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAE97@main2.marlow.com> Like I said, it was first impression with FMS. My first impression was horrible, so I know I am biased. It is a matter of time vs. money. It is also a matter of necessity. I do develop totally Access systems, but a majority of my work usually only uses Access as a BE. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Wed May 12 15:10:56 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:10:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BF02@natexch.jenkens.com> I have a report and I have noticed that my dates are sorting in numerical order. This is not a common sort of this report, so I do not know how long it has been doing this. I have even tried to sort by Cdate(MyDate) to see if explicitly defining it as a date helps, but it is still sorting like this: 01/01/2005 01/05/2003 01/13/2004 02/03/2003 This is an Access XP front end connecting to a SQL backend. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 12 15:19:08 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:19:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BF02@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <20040512201907.XVVE17779.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Is the report grouped? I've seen this in grouped reports -- you just have to add another grouping level that "sorts" by year. If that's not the problem, sorry! Susan H. I have a report and I have noticed that my dates are sorting in numerical order. This is not a common sort of this report, so I do not know how long it has been doing this. I have even tried to sort by Cdate(MyDate) to see if explicitly defining it as a date helps, but it is still sorting like this: 01/01/2005 01/05/2003 01/13/2004 02/03/2003 This is an Access XP front end connecting to a SQL backend. From DElam at jenkens.com Wed May 12 15:27:05 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:27:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BF04@natexch.jenkens.com> The grouping was the trick. This is dynamically sorted depending on user options. I had it sorting by prefix characters as that is what is needed for the most common sort. When I changes it to each value it started sorting correctly. I have set that as an option now in the code that sets the sort. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order Is the report grouped? I've seen this in grouped reports -- you just have to add another grouping level that "sorts" by year. If that's not the problem, sorry! Susan H. I have a report and I have noticed that my dates are sorting in numerical order. This is not a common sort of this report, so I do not know how long it has been doing this. I have even tried to sort by Cdate(MyDate) to see if explicitly defining it as a date helps, but it is still sorting like this: 01/01/2005 01/05/2003 01/13/2004 02/03/2003 This is an Access XP front end connecting to a SQL backend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 12 16:18:14 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:18:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't think they do a good job of it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed May 12 16:32:45 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:32:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? References: Message-ID: <004101c43868$aa5e5680$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I have the '97 Suite somewhere ...used to use the Analyzer and Detective tools quite a bit when doing y2k conversions and db documentation ...but as I learned more and the price escalated, I just didn't feel it was worth the money when I moved to AXP ...and I really don't mind paying for value when it comes to tools ...never used a single one of their components since they were imo bloat code when better vba versions were available ...incorporated the Memo in a beta db once but discarded it for a better solution ...just too little for too much :( ...if the tools were a tenth the price they'd probably sell like hot cakes ...but its their business, not mine. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work > with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade > path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The > tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our > office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for > anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as > it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started > out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't > think they do a good job of it. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > > > Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access > developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access > Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I > have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also > use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and > that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy > something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is > money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue > with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not > upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of > Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be > using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). > > I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of > chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic > show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem > which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access > apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy > this product. Fine with me. > > I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in > the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a > great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need > help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in > fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people > don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken > and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after > numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion > was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - > that's very cool. > > John > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 12 16:55:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:55:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: why do you need to save it? In the open, just set the property that you want to hook. That simple. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 12 17:09:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:09:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <001701c4386d$c53b3900$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From demulling at centurytel.net Wed May 12 20:42:31 2004 From: demulling at centurytel.net (Demulling Family) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:42:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A2D287.1020306@centurytel.net> Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: >Jeffrey, that is precisely what I'm trying to do...thanks. I'm using a >launcher application to open the front end so your approach should work just >fine for me. It appears that you are doing the same...is this correct? > > >Mark > > Mark what am I doing is placing it the splash screen of the actual program and the option only comes up if in the user table the current user on the pc is setup as a programmer/admin. This allows me to go in and look at code if someone reports an error or is having trouble. It has proven very useful when I roll out a new program at work. From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 22:47:33 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:47:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thought so too. They had a sweet (well at least not real bitter) deal at one time. IIRC it was some coupon in the A97 Suite that gave me 40% off of the A2k version if I ordered in some inane timeframe. I tried to order the upgrade but I was a couple of months late and they wouldn't negotiate. I didn't either. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't think they do a good job of it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 22:47:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:47:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <004101c43868$aa5e5680$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I'd have to agree there! ...if the tools were a tenth the price they'd probably sell like hot cakes ...but its their business, not mine. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work > with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade > path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The > tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our > office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for > anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as > it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started > out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't > think they do a good job of it. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > > > Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access > developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access > Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I > have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also > use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and > that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy > something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is > money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue > with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not > upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of > Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be > using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). > > I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of > chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic > show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem > which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access > apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy > this product. Fine with me. > > I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in > the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a > great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need > help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in > fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people > don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken > and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after > numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion > was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - > that's very cool. > > John > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu May 13 03:44:24 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:44:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: ...I wish it was that simple. We are using code to generate code and all is fine except that the hook up between the control and it's event is not being saved... This needs to be done at design time or the object of what we are trying to do is defeated. (which is to programatically create the events for a large number of controls across many forms) Ryan "John W. Colby" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 22:55 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure why do you need to save it? In the open, just set the property that you want to hook. That simple. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu May 13 05:30:20 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:30:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Thanks to those who responded I managed to get this to work... Essentially, what needs to happen is the control needs to have the event hooked up when it is first programatically designed... i.e Set loBtn = CreateControl(strFormName, acCommandButton, acDetail) With loBtn .name = "cmdPrint" .Caption = "Print" .OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End With Then 'CreateEventProc' will work. Cheers Ryan rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 13/05/2004 09:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure ...I wish it was that simple. We are using code to generate code and all is fine except that the hook up between the control and it's event is not being saved... This needs to be done at design time or the object of what we are trying to do is defeated. (which is to programatically create the events for a large number of controls across many forms) Ryan "John W. Colby" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 22:55 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure why do you need to save it? In the open, just set the property that you want to hook. That simple. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 06:06:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:06:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12116468119.20040513130649@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan So you are also designing and creating the controls from code? That you didn't tell ... Meanwhile, I located the Smart Access article. It is Fixing Broken Event Procedure Properties By Ken Getz Smart Access July 1996 p. 20. The add-ins were for Access 2.0 and 95 and were named FIXEVT16.MDA and FIXEVT32.MDA respectively and packed in the file "_GETZ32.EXE" on the companion diskette used at those days - I just found it in a dusty box. I used the Access 2.0 version which worked well - but both versions were meant to fix missing procedures for existing controls. I guess the A95 version can be used or at least easily modified for newer Access versions. /gustav > Thanks to those who responded I managed to get this to work... > Essentially, what needs to happen is the control needs to have the event > hooked up when it is first programatically designed... > i.e > Set loBtn = CreateControl(strFormName, acCommandButton, acDetail) > With loBtn > .name = "cmdPrint" > .Caption = "Print" > .OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" > End With > Then 'CreateEventProc' will work. > Cheers > Ryan From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 05:23:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:23:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000901c43849$381fc230$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <000901c43849$381fc230$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Message-ID: <4213893367.20040513122354@cactus.dk> Hi Mark No problem, glad you got it solved! /gustav > Sorry Gustav :@( > I had tried a lot of things... This morning I gave up and resorted to > using VBA to populate a table as required. It's actually (probbaly) > quicker as the table only gets updated when the code structure changes > and so, when running reports there is no need anymore to build the > structure... > Thanks again, and sorry for not being clearer... I had tried for most of > the afternoon and was trying to avoid sending a huge email... From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 07:38:20 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:38:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138407@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. This would apply to the list box and combo box. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a single decimal place in the list. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. I am running out of hair to pull out. Paul Baumann -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 13 08:23:20 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:23:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8301@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I think you'll have to do a couple of things. 1/ The font used in the list/combo will have to be non-proportional, like Courier New. Then you can figure out how many digits will display in the list. 2/ In the query that populates the list you'll need to pad your numeric string with spaces. A function something like... (Air code) Function strPad(nLen as Integer, nNumber as Long) as String Dim strResult as String strResult = Cstr(nNumber) strResult = String( nLen - Len(strResult," ") & strResult strPad = strResult End Function HTH Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 13 08:30:44 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:30:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8303@xlivmbx12.aig.com> PS. Instead of the hand-rolled strPad function you could use the built in Rset function. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 08:44:11 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:44:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138408@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Lambert, I have used similar code before, however, I didn't take the font into consideration. All my results didn't look right. I usually use Arial because it's the font used for our company logo. I changed the font as you suggested and it works well. Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? I think you'll have to do a couple of things. 1/ The font used in the list/combo will have to be non-proportional, like Courier New. Then you can figure out how many digits will display in the list. 2/ In the query that populates the list you'll need to pad your numeric string with spaces. A function something like... (Air code) Function strPad(nLen as Integer, nNumber as Long) as String Dim strResult as String strResult = Cstr(nNumber) strResult = String( nLen - Len(strResult," ") & strResult strPad = strResult End Function HTH Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 08:24:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:24:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138407@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138407@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <14124744871.20040513152446@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. The only way I've found to do this is to use a font where all digits have the same width like MS Sans Serif. Further, in this font, a digit has twice the width of a space which equals that of decimal and thousand separators. Having decided a maximum number you can calculate the maximum width of the formatted number, and for any number prefix the normally formatted number (a string) with single and double spaces to obtain a concatenated string of the same visual width for any number. Here is an example from a query used as rowsource for a combobox with formatting to two decimals: Format([Amount],Space(15-2*Len(Format([Amount],"0.00"))-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0.00") AS SMin and here is an example with formatting to zero decimals: Format([Amount],Space(14-2*Len([Amount])-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0") AS SMin For other fonts where digits may have individual widths you would have to expand this to count the occurrence of each digit and then compensate with spaces. /gustav > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 08:50:35 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:50:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138409@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Gustav, Thanks, I'll try it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Hi Jim > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. The only way I've found to do this is to use a font where all digits have the same width like MS Sans Serif. Further, in this font, a digit has twice the width of a space which equals that of decimal and thousand separators. Having decided a maximum number you can calculate the maximum width of the formatted number, and for any number prefix the normally formatted number (a string) with single and double spaces to obtain a concatenated string of the same visual width for any number. Here is an example from a query used as rowsource for a combobox with formatting to two decimals: Format([Amount],Space(15-2*Len(Format([Amount],"0.00"))-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0.00") AS SMin and here is an example with formatting to zero decimals: Format([Amount],Space(14-2*Len([Amount])-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0") AS SMin For other fonts where digits may have individual widths you would have to expand this to count the occurrence of each digit and then compensate with spaces. /gustav > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 08:51:39 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:51:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C13840A@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I'm not familiar with the Rset function. How does it work? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? PS. Instead of the hand-rolled strPad function you could use the built in Rset function. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 13 09:11:26 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:11:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an 'EndDate' on the form. I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution for both would be great. Thanks! John W Clark From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu May 13 09:21:23 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:21:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: SELECT Count(<>) AS MyCount FROM <> WHERE datLoginDate Between #<># and #<>#; "John Clark" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/13/2004 09:11 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an 'EndDate' on the form. I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution for both would be great. Thanks! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 09:22:14 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:22:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C13840B@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I would count the records in the query. If you know the number of records in the datasheet view of the query, a count using either another query or DCount function would give you the results to need. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an 'EndDate' on the form. I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution for both would be great. Thanks! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lister at actuarial-files.com Thu May 13 09:37:59 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:37:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font Message-ID: <00a301c438f7$f66de010$66976bce@ralf> Don't archive! Hello, sorry for this OT. I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? TIA Saludos Ralf From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 09:40:43 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:40:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition References: Message-ID: <002601c438f8$45463390$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...off the top and not tested Dim rs1 As Recordset Set rs1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("SELECT * FROM <> WHERE_ datLoginDate Between #<># and #<>#;", dbOpenDynaset, dbReadOnly) With rs1 .MoveLast Me!txtCount = .RecordCount End With William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition > I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records > logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I > have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records > 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an > 'EndDate' on the form. > > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? > > This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution > for both would be great. > > Thanks! > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 13 09:42:32 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:42:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8307@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Here's the example form the help file... Dim MyString MyString = "0123456789" ' Initialize string. Rset MyString = "Right->" ' MyString contains " Right->". Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I'm not familiar with the Rset function. > How does it work? > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > PS. > > Instead of the hand-rolled strPad function you could use the built in Rset > function. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > > single decimal place in the list. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > > > Paul Baumann > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 09:46:22 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:46:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font References: <00a301c438f7$f66de010$66976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <002e01c438f9$0f6a8db0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/math.html William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralf Lister" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:37 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font Don't archive! Hello, sorry for this OT. I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? TIA Saludos Ralf -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 13 09:51:26 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:51:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font Message-ID: <16211003.1084459886489.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> not very good at maths but have a look a this link might help you a little..... http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=psfchoice Paul Message date : May 13 2004, 03:41 PM >From : "Ralf Lister" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] OT: Math Font Don't archive! Hello, sorry for this OT. I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? TIA Saludos Ralf -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From CMackin at Quiznos.com Thu May 13 09:55:44 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:55:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127AF@bross.quiznos.net> If you already have the query that gets the records you want, just use something like: Public Function GetRecCount() As Long Dim rst as ADODB.Recordset strSQL = "SELECT COUNT(*) FROM YourQueryName" Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strSQL, CurrentProject.Connection, adStatic GetRecCount = rst(0) rst.Close Set rst = nothing End Function You could of course pass the query name to the function and build the SQL string dynamically to make it a lot more globally useful, but this covers the basic concept. Chris Mackin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition > I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records > logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I > have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records > 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an > 'EndDate' on the form. > > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? > > This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution > for both would be great. > > Thanks! > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Thu May 13 10:23:25 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:23:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE63050032681@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 10:23:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition In-Reply-To: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127AF@bross.quiznos.net> References: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127AF@bross.quiznos.net> Message-ID: <17431891106.20040513172352@cactus.dk> Hi John > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? The easy route: lngCount = DCount("*", "NameOfYourQuery") /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 11:50:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:50:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition In-Reply-To: <002601c438f8$45463390$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040513165035.MTSM15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I don't think you need the loop -- try a SELECT Count(*) Susan H. ...off the top and not tested Dim rs1 As Recordset Set rs1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("SELECT * FROM <> WHERE_ datLoginDate Between #<># and #<>#;", dbOpenDynaset, dbReadOnly) With rs1 .MoveLast Me!txtCount = .RecordCount End With From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 11:52:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:52:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OpenReport in older versions Message-ID: <20040513165226.MVCU15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've just discovered that the OpenReport method doesn't support the acHidden constant in 2000 and earlier. Anyone know, off the top of our head, how to hide a report when opening? I'm headed for the language reference, but if anyone knows without looking, I'd appreciate it. :) Thanks! Susan H. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 13 12:13:18 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: Yup.....I was bein' dumb! I would have definitely done this on a report--I do it all the time--but I never thought of it on the form. It worked like a charm. Now I've just gotta pretty it up a bit. Thanks again Gustav! And, everyone else who posted, as well! Thank you! John W Clark >>> gustav at cactus.dk 5/13/2004 11:23:52 AM >>> Hi John > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? The easy route: lngCount = DCount("*", "NameOfYourQuery") /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Thu May 13 12:15:02 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:15:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OpenReport in older versions Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127B1@bross.quiznos.net> Back in th eold days you had to do it this way: Open the report in preview and then Reports("TheReportIJustOpened").Visible = False Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OpenReport in older versions I've just discovered that the OpenReport method doesn't support the acHidden constant in 2000 and earlier. Anyone know, off the top of our head, how to hide a report when opening? I'm headed for the language reference, but if anyone knows without looking, I'd appreciate it. :) Thanks! Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 13 13:21:42 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:21:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font References: <00a301c438f7$f66de010$66976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <40A3BCB6.1040409@shaw.ca> Or you could use MathML a form of XML http://www.w3.org/Math/XSL/pmathml2.xml http://www.w3.org/Math/XSL/ Ralf Lister wrote: >Don't archive! > >Hello, > >sorry for this OT. > >I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? > >TIA > >Saludos >Ralf > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Thu May 13 14:14:43 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:14:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: Well you can try these CTRL+F11 To toggle between a custom menu bar and a built-in menu bar Then try F11 or ALT+F1 To bring the Database window to the front ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 01:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window > not visible!! > > Hi Patti, > > I don't think this will work because the menu is also > different from standard...I'll give it go anyway. > > Regards, > > Sander > PS: there is no code in the app that changes the layout of the menu's > > "O'Connor, Patricia " wrote: > > Ran into this last month. > > The database window is probably hidden in a lower quadrant. > Go into the application go to toolbar WINDOWS select tile - > the database window should appear. Move it to the upper left > quadrant of screen and close . > > When you open it should be where you can see it. > HTH > Patti > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 09:22 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not > visible!! > > > > Hi group, > > > > we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with > A2002. So I've > > migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to > > A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! > > > > Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I > cannot open the > > database window. In order to see the database window I need to open > > Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH > SHIFT pressed. > > After that I see the database window (off course) and I can > manually > > open the startpage. > > > > This application is so worthless that the users need access to the > > database window in order to work with the application (at one point > > they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable > and press > > F5!!!!!!!) > > > > How is it possible that I do not see the database window > (it's not the > > option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? > > > > TIA > > > > Sander > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 14:32:26 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:32:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Major hole in all symantec products References: Message-ID: <005b01c43921$05f51bb0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...Symantec products all found to have a major hole ...ring zero problem that allows total exposure ...updates are on-line William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 13 15:08:06 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:08:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE63050032681@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <000301c43926$043e0390$6401a8c0@COA3> Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 13 15:46:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:46:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: You may think that approach sucks, Steve, but you're doing fairly simple stuff with your example. I tried the printer object when we first moved to XP and discovered that for what we needed to do, it caused far more problems than it solved. I went back to the API calls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 13 16:30:15 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:30:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c43931$7f0f0cd0$6401a8c0@COA3> Charlotte: I like API calls as much as the next person (especially for something like the Common Dialog; the API keeps me from worrying about OCX versions), but the whole method of PrtDevMode/API solved *NOTHING* for me in Runtime or MDE, which is where I needed it. The Printers collection is only a partial panacea (if that makes any sense), but at least it can be used in an MDE. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code You may think that approach sucks, Steve, but you're doing fairly simple stuff with your example. I tried the printer object when we first moved to XP and discovered that for what we needed to do, it caused far more problems than it solved. I went back to the API calls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 13 17:07:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:07:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: Ah, I don't think you had mentioned MDEs, or else I missed the reference. Yes, you don't really have many choices in that situation. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Charlotte: I like API calls as much as the next person (especially for something like the Common Dialog; the API keeps me from worrying about OCX versions), but the whole method of PrtDevMode/API solved *NOTHING* for me in Runtime or MDE, which is where I needed it. The Printers collection is only a partial panacea (if that makes any sense), but at least it can be used in an MDE. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code You may think that approach sucks, Steve, but you're doing fairly simple stuff with your example. I tried the printer object when we first moved to XP and discovered that for what we needed to do, it caused far more problems than it solved. I went back to the API calls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 09:43:06 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:43:06 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <20040514134304.1AC5A262429@smtp.nildram.co.uk> I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to Word. I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Fri May 14 08:53:47 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:53:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: What if on the paste event in word you use paste special and then unformatted text? "Andy Lacey" k> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/14/2004 09:43 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to Word. I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Fri May 14 09:28:12 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCFC1ABA5@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Try using field codes with an if and include statements like this. { IF { MERGEFIELD fldChoice } ="N" "Statement if True" "Statement if False"} Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 10:43 To: Dba Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to Word. I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 10:35:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:35:17 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <20040514143514.7329825E156@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Well that was almost a bravissimo Jeff. Using Paste Special and telling it paste just text overcomes the table stuff but the merge field that's in the middle of what I'm pasting comes in as text too, ie <> as text, and the subsequent Mailmerge therefore ignores it. Great try Jeff, but not quite. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Date: 14/05/04 13:55 > > > What if on the paste event in word you use paste special and then > unformatted text? > > > > "Andy Lacey" > <andy at minstersystems.co.u To: Dba <AccessD at databaseadvisors.com> > k> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 05/14/2004 09:43 AM > Please respond to "Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving" > > > > > > > I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's > probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to > Word. > > I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want > to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The > alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily > alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge > fields. > My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc > specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 > columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The > second > and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate > a > column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the > table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word > Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a > Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into > my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is > a > complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I > only > want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life > of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, > but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would > do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? > Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 10:40:10 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:40:10 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <20040514144007.C983025E2D5@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Not on I'm afraid Christian. It's not just a case of popping in one of two values. It's a case of saying if x=n and y=nn then print this paragraph, if x=n and y=nn+1 print this one, if x=n+1 etc etc. If it could even be done with an IIF it would be horrendous, and the users would never be able to edit the wording which is one of the requirements. Thanks anyway. Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Date: 14/05/04 14:29 > > Try using field codes with an if and include statements like this. > > { IF { MERGEFIELD fldChoice } ="N" "Statement if True" "Statement if > False"} > > Christian Brock > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 10:43 > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's > probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to > Word. > > I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want > to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The > alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily > alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. > My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc > specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 > columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second > and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a > column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the > table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word > Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a > Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into > my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a > complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only > want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life > of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, > but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would > do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? > Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 11:03:16 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:03:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic SOLVED Message-ID: <20040514150314.7D4D624D7EE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Well I think I've cracked it. I've given up fighting it and allowed it to paste back in as a table, then selected the table and converted it to text. That works fine and the mailmerge too. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Date: 14/05/04 14:43 > > Not on I'm afraid Christian. It's not just a case of popping in one of two > values. It's a case of saying if x=n and y=nn then print this paragraph, if > x=n and y=nn+1 print this one, if x=n+1 etc etc. If it could even be done > with an IIF it would be horrendous, and the users would never be able to > edit the wording which is one of the requirements. > > Thanks anyway. > > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > --------- Original Message -------- > From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > Date: 14/05/04 14:29 > > > > > Try using field codes with an if and include statements like this. > > > > { IF { MERGEFIELD fldChoice } =&quot;N&quot; &quot;Statement if > True&quot; &quot;Statement if > > False&quot;} > > > > Christian Brock > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] > > Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 10:43 > > To: Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > > > > I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's > > probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to > > Word. > > > > I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I > want > > to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The > > alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can > easily > > alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge > fields. > > My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc > > specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 > > columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The > second > > and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate > a > > column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the > > table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word > > Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a > > Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell > into > > my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is > a > > complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > > single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I > only > > want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the > life > > of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, > > but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that > would > > do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? > > Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word > Basic, > > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > > > -- > > Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 14 10:26:51 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:26:51 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function Message-ID: <19613595.1084548411077.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, I?m a bit new to ASP/HTML and currently working with dropdown boxes, however I?m a bit confused on how to pass the selected text to a function. My code snippet for the dropdown box and function are below: response.write " <% Do Until rs.EOF=True%> <% rs.MoveNext loop %> It does what you ask of it. A couple things to note. in the function, I am getting the .text property, instead of .value. In HTML, an option within a select object (ie, a line in a combo or listbox) can have a value different then what is displayed in the box itself. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function To all, I'm a bit new to ASP/HTML and currently working with dropdown boxes, however I'm a bit confused on how to pass the selected text to a function. My code snippet for the dropdown box and function are below: response.write "" response.write "Choose...." While Not rsData.EOF response.write "" & rsData.Fields("OfficeName") & "" rsData.MoveNext Wend <% ' Function just to display name of the office selected. Function OfficeSelected(strSelectedOffice) response.write strSelectedOffice End Function %> The problem occurs when I select an item from the dropdown box, I get the following error: this.selectedindex.text Is Null or not an object Can anyone point me in the right direction on what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance for any help on this. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 14 11:31:03 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:31:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831C@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Greg, You say " No fee book number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's blank...but the field is NOT required...yet) but some of the other fields are filled. Just a blank [Fee Book #] field. " This looks like a direct contradiction to me??? No fee book number filed in blank ,but you have some blank fee book number fields? Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? > > Hi everyone! > > I've got a puzzler here that makes no sense to me. Access 97. SP "I've > Lost Count"... > > This is a large database with many related tables. There is one main > table (Fee Book) with the Primary Key is [Fee Book #]. It is manually > entered, but is unique by definition. In one of the related tables (Fee > Book Ledger), this field is used for the related records in both tables. > The Fee Book table is the main table while the Fee Book Ledger table holds > related records. Referential Intregity is Enforced. Cascade Update > Related Records is applied, but Cascade Delete Related Records is NOT. > The Join Type is #2, "Include ALL records from 'Fee Book' and only those > records from 'Fee Book Ledger' where the joined fields are equal. > > Obviously, in the Fee Book table, where [Fee Book #], the primary key, is > required, it cannot be blank. > > Why am I ending up with orphans in the Fee Book Ledger table? No fee book > number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's blank...but the field is NOT > required...yet) but some of the other fields are filled. Just a blank > [Fee Book #] field. And it has NO related record in the primary table > since that table cannot have blank fields. > > And, to test it further, I went into the Fee Book Ledger table, entered a > record, but purposly left the [Fee Book #] field blank, and it ACCEPTED > it. > > Now I want to go home. > > I can make the [Fee Book #] field in the Fee Book Ledger table required, > since it currently is not, but that may have some unintended consequences > down the road that I'm not aware of at this moment. > > I'm going to test that in a few moments, but I wanted to see if anyone in > this group had seen this type of oddball behavior before. > > TIA > Greg Smith > GregSmith at Starband.net > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri May 14 11:43:04 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:43:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Message-ID: <770-2200455141643455@christopherhawkins.com> With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I decided tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So far, I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. My Challenge: Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go out, and I want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print Preview each one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that will kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print their invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the client's record. Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the report? Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The part I cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own path in there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with the predefined formats Access ships with. Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? -Christopher- From GregSmith at starband.net Fri May 14 11:58:29 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:58:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831C@xlivmbx12.aig.com> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831C@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <1862.216.43.21.235.1084553909.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Lambert: Well, I guess that wasn't very clear. In the Fee Book Ledger table (secondary), the [Fee Book #] field, by table definition, is not required, even though it is the linked field to the Fee Book table (primary) by the [Fee Book #] field. However, referential integrity between the Fee Book table and the Fee Book Ledger table using this [Fee Book #] field "should" always force an entry in this field in the Fee Book Ledger table, or at least cause an Access error to appear. But I can enter data into the Fee Book Ledger table, and leave the [Fee Book #] field blank and Access accepts it into the table. My understanding (correct or incorrect) is that if Referential Integrity is enforced, then data in the secondary table cannot be entered if there is no related record in the primary table. Which is NOT what is happening here. There has to be a reason this is happening...I hope. Let me know if this needs further explanation ... Greg > Greg, > > You say " No fee book number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's > blank...but the field is NOT required...yet) but some of the other > fields are filled. Just a blank [Fee Book #] field. " > > This looks like a direct contradiction to me??? No fee book number filed > in blank ,but you have some blank fee book number fields? > > Lambert > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] >> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:05 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? >> >> Hi everyone! >> >> I've got a puzzler here that makes no sense to me. Access 97. SP >> "I've Lost Count"... >> >> This is a large database with many related tables. There is one main >> table (Fee Book) with the Primary Key is [Fee Book #]. It is manually >> entered, but is unique by definition. In one of the related tables >> (Fee Book Ledger), this field is used for the related records in both >> tables. The Fee Book table is the main table while the Fee Book >> Ledger table holds related records. Referential Intregity is etc. From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri May 14 12:43:17 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? In-Reply-To: <770-2200455141643455@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000001c439da$f0b5b330$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of other PDF choices out there. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I decided tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So far, I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. My Challenge: Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go out, and I want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print Preview each one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that will kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print their invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the client's record. Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the report? Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The part I cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own path in there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with the predefined formats Access ships with. Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 14 13:00:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:00:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831E@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here is the reason for what you have observed... "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, you can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the records are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is assigned to a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order that is assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID field." So nulls are "ok". This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access will automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll never get any orphans that way. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:58 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? > > Lambert: > > Well, I guess that wasn't very clear. In the Fee Book Ledger table > (secondary), the [Fee Book #] field, by table definition, is not required, > even though it is the linked field to the Fee Book table (primary) by the > [Fee Book #] field. However, referential integrity between the Fee Book > table and the Fee Book Ledger table using this [Fee Book #] field "should" > always force an entry in this field in the Fee Book Ledger table, or at > least cause an Access error to appear. > > But I can enter data into the Fee Book Ledger table, and leave the [Fee > Book #] field blank and Access accepts it into the table. > > My understanding (correct or incorrect) is that if Referential Integrity > is enforced, then data in the secondary table cannot be entered if there > is no related record in the primary table. Which is NOT what is happening > here. > > There has to be a reason this is happening...I hope. > > Let me know if this needs further explanation ... > > Greg > > > > > Greg, > > > > You say " No fee book number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's > > blank...but the field is NOT required...yet) but some of the other > > fields are filled. Just a blank [Fee Book #] field. " > > > > This looks like a direct contradiction to me??? No fee book number filed > > in blank ,but you have some blank fee book number fields? > > > > Lambert > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] > >> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:05 PM > >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >> Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? > >> > >> Hi everyone! > >> > >> I've got a puzzler here that makes no sense to me. Access 97. SP > >> "I've Lost Count"... > >> > >> This is a large database with many related tables. There is one main > >> table (Fee Book) with the Primary Key is [Fee Book #]. It is manually > >> entered, but is unique by definition. In one of the related tables > >> (Fee Book Ledger), this field is used for the related records in both > >> tables. The Fee Book table is the main table while the Fee Book > >> Ledger table holds related records. Referential Intregity is > > etc. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri May 14 12:55:13 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:55:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Message-ID: <410-220045514175513907@christopherhawkins.com> I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and specify a path. -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: mikedorism at adelphia.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 >We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of >other PDF >choices out there. > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > > >With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I >decided >tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So >far, >I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. > >My Challenge: > >Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go >out, and I >want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print >Preview each >one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that >will >kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print >their >invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the >client's record. > >Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the >report? >Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The >part I >cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own >path in >there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with >the >predefined formats Access ships with. > >Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? > >-Christopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From GregSmith at starband.net Fri May 14 13:34:10 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:34:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- Looks Like a FACT! In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831E@xlivmbx12.aig.com> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831E@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <2135.216.43.21.235.1084559650.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. Thanks again Lambert. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.net > Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here > is the reason for what you have observed... > > "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table > that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, you > can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the records > are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is assigned to > a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order that is > assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID field." > > So nulls are "ok". > > This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry > in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee > Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access will > automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll never get > any orphans that way. > > Lambert > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri May 14 13:45:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:45:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! In-Reply-To: <2135.216.43.21.235.1084559650.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <20040514184504.BMYH1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sounds like a missing foreign key in a query to me. Susan H. Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 14 14:11:57 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:11:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web Message-ID: I have been working with Access for a while now, and I have been doing a little web stuff on the side, and now I would like to consider moving some of my stuff to the web. Does anyone have any advice on where to go to get started on this? I've gotten pretty decent with HTML--I still need to a reference sometimes, but I generally know what I am doing--and I got into this using a book called, "Visual Quickstart Guide" and then found some handy websites. I also viewed the source code on some sites, when I saw something nice, and followed througth it to learn what they were doing. Any books, sites, etc. I am currently trying to expand my web skills, by learning more XML, CGI, Pearl, and some other acronyms. But I think I could definitely impress my boss and users, if I can move some of my current and pending programs onto the Internet or Intranet. Thanks for any help that you can give me! Have a great weekend!!! John W Clark From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 14 14:43:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:43:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEC0@main2.marlow.com> ASP ASP ASP. Microsoft Scripting Editor 10.0 has Intellisense for both ASP objects, HTML tags, and custom ActiveX .dll's. Wonderful approach. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web I have been working with Access for a while now, and I have been doing a little web stuff on the side, and now I would like to consider moving some of my stuff to the web. Does anyone have any advice on where to go to get started on this? I've gotten pretty decent with HTML--I still need to a reference sometimes, but I generally know what I am doing--and I got into this using a book called, "Visual Quickstart Guide" and then found some handy websites. I also viewed the source code on some sites, when I saw something nice, and followed througth it to learn what they were doing. Any books, sites, etc. I am currently trying to expand my web skills, by learning more XML, CGI, Pearl, and some other acronyms. But I think I could definitely impress my boss and users, if I can move some of my current and pending programs onto the Internet or Intranet. Thanks for any help that you can give me! Have a great weekend!!! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 14 14:55:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:55:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? References: <410-220045514175513907@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <40A52427.201@shaw.ca> Ahh, but the method does depend on the driver used and the OS If you want to do it yourself see methods below, however for $50 you can get PDF And E-Mail Class Library for Microsoft Access http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/attac-cg/acgsoft.htm The Library supports many different PDF drivers so you dont have to write and test all the drivers and OS registry keys. Adobe Acrobat PDF drivers from Adobe Systems Supports Acrobat 3, 4, 5 & 6 Win2PDF and Win2PDF Pro from Dane Prairie Systems pdfFactory and pdfFactory Pro from Fine Print Software PDF995 and 995 Tools from Software995 PDF4U from PDF Bean, Inc. Amyuni PDF Creator Amyuni Technologies, Inc. To do it yourself For example Assuming you have Acrobat 5 Write installed Here is method of setting default printer via code also this handles pdf files on Win95 and WinNT systems with win.ini files Reports: Save a report's output as a PDF file* http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0011.htm Here is another method of changing default printer via code http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn/msaccess/msaccess.html Here's the detail for coding the intitiation of the report: with Adobe PDF Writer Version 5 The registry keys may change for 6.0 1. First thing you need to do is read/understand this article and copy the code into your db as a module. This gives you the functions to poke & peek the registry. 2. Once you have done step 1, you are in a position to create the required registry key and set it with the filename you want to save your pdf as. Put this code in a sub or function some where and pass it your filename. Const conRoot = "HKEY_CURRENT_USER" Const conPath = "Software\Adobe\Acrobat PDFWriter" Const conKey = "PDFFileName" CreateNewKey conPath & "\" & conKey, HKEY_CURRENT_USER SetKeyValue conPath, conKey, "c:\myfolder\myfilename.pdf" , REG_SZ 3. Now when you run your report, it will print to the PDF Writer printer driver and will save the results to the file name you have set above. 4 . not sure of this After the PDF Writer creates the file, it deletes the registry key for you. Generally most PDF drivers have some method of setting file name with the registry. Christopher Hawkins wrote: >I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking >for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and >specify a path. > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: mikedorism at adelphia.net >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 > > > >>We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of >>other PDF >>choices out there. >> >>Doris Manning >>Database Administrator >>Hargrove Inc. >>www.hargroveinc.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>Christopher >>Hawkins >>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? >> >> >>With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I >>decided >>tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So >>far, >>I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. >> >>My Challenge: >> >>Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go >>out, and I >>want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print >>Preview each >>one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that >>will >>kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print >>their >>invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the >>client's record. >> >>Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the >>report? >>Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The >>part I >>cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own >>path in >>there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with >>the >>predefined formats Access ships with. >> >>Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? >> >>-Christopher- >> >> >> >> > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 14 15:05:10 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:05:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic References: <20040514134304.1AC5A262429@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <40A52676.4080007@shaw.ca> If you are looking for Word VBA examples hunt around here http://word.mvps.org/Tutorials/index.htm and here is a list of sites http://www.mvps.org/links.html#Word Cindy Meister's is good for mail merge problems http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister/ Andy Lacey wrote: >I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's >probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to >Word. > >I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want >to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The >alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily >alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. >My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc >specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 >columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second >and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a >column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the >table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word >Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a >Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into >my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a >complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a >single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only >want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life >of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, >but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would >do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? >Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, >it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > >-- >Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > >________________________________________________ >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 14 16:36:53 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:36:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web References: Message-ID: <40A53BF5.6020902@shaw.ca> I learned to fiddle around with Access and ASP by getting a free web hosting account on http://www.brinkster.com Brinkster now has some per diem broadband data throttling on their free accounts. Then installing and uploading the ASP Access wizards from http://www.genericdb.com If you want to get a free account to test ASP.Net and Access or SQL Server http://europe.webmatrixhosting.net/Default.aspx This is a Russian hosted site. I am not sure how closely they are affiliated with Microsoft and how long they will stay in free mode but they have been up for a year. You will need WEBmatrix and ASP.net framework installed on your machine. Here is a message forum using Access and ASP http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/MessageForum/forums.asp John Clark wrote: >I have been working with Access for a while now, and I have been doing a >little web stuff on the side, and now I would like to consider moving >some of my stuff to the web. Does anyone have any advice on where to go >to get started on this? I've gotten pretty decent with HTML--I still >need to a reference sometimes, but I generally know what I am doing--and >I got into this using a book called, "Visual Quickstart Guide" and then >found some handy websites. I also viewed the source code on some sites, >when I saw something nice, and followed througth it to learn what they >were doing. Any books, sites, etc. > >I am currently trying to expand my web skills, by learning more XML, >CGI, Pearl, and some other acronyms. But I think I could definitely >impress my boss and users, if I can move some of my current and pending >programs onto the Internet or Intranet. > >Thanks for any help that you can give me! > >Have a great weekend!!! > >John W Clark > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Fri May 14 19:55:35 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:25:35 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function Message-ID: Just as an aside... This is why ASP.Net is much easier to port from Access development to web development. The reason that ASP.Net automatically maintains state and you can program using very similar techniques to VBA in access. The 'flow' issue that exists in most web technologies is pretty much negated. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 2:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function Paul, this is a GCE. Gross Conceptual Error. . A combobox is something that your end user sees, on your website. The ASP code you have below 'creates' that combo box, and sends it to the user. Everything you put in ASP runs on the server, before the user gets the information. (Technically speaking you can 'push' completed page information out to the user, as more ASP code is running, but the end result is that the user doesn't actually get anything you put into ASP). So, how do you script for what you are doing? You have to use Client Side scripting, either VBScript, or JScript (or anything else that floats your boat). If you are not actually trying to do anything on the user's browser, with the selected value, but instead, are just trying to retrieve it when a user submits the selection, then you would use request.querystring or request.form on the page that receives the submitted data. This issue is probably one of the most common stumbling blocks between switching from VB/Access development, to asp/web development. In Access/VB, there is a continuous 'flow' between the FE and BE. In asp/web development, you are dealing with a disconnected Front End. Almost like taking a snapshot of an Access form, then sending it to your client to fill out. They fill it out, and send it back. In the meantime, you just get to twiddle your thumbs. This has both advantages and disadvantages. One advantage is it immensely increases the number of 'concurrent' users in a system, because you are truly doing a 'hit and run' on the database. It also makes on the fly development a lot easier, because you can change anything you want, to a live system, and when you make a change, the next person to get their 'copy' just gets the new version. The biggest disadvantage is there is no easy way to tell what a user is actually doing, until they 'trigger' something that posts information back to you. To answer your actual question, however, I think you would need this: <% dim cnn dim rs dim strSQL set cnn=server.createobject("ADODB.Connection") set rs=server.createobject("ADODB.Recordset") cnn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" cnn.Open "D:\edlevin.mdb" strSQL="SELECT Name FROM Stores ORDER BY Name" rs.Open strSQL, cnn, 1,1 If rs.EOF=False then rs.movefirst %> It does what you ask of it. A couple things to note. in the function, I am getting the .text property, instead of .value. In HTML, an option within a select object (ie, a line in a combo or listbox) can have a value different then what is displayed in the box itself. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function To all, I'm a bit new to ASP/HTML and currently working with dropdown boxes, however I'm a bit confused on how to pass the selected text to a function. My code snippet for the dropdown box and function are below: response.write "" response.write "Choose...." While Not rsData.EOF response.write "" & rsData.Fields("OfficeName") & "" rsData.MoveNext Wend <% ' Function just to display name of the office selected. Function OfficeSelected(strSelectedOffice) response.write strSelectedOffice End Function %> The problem occurs when I select an item from the dropdown box, I get the following error: this.selectedindex.text Is Null or not an object Can anyone point me in the right direction on what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance for any help on this. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 14 23:43:50 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:43:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 00:00:48 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:00:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 15 00:17:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:17:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From NewEgg's site - All orders shipped within CA,TN and NJ will be charged sales tax. I get the feeling they have a physical location there. I know they recently opened a warehouse in NJ so that they could get things to the east coast faster. Anyway, I am in CT so no tax (yet). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 15 00:21:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This brings up another question, do you place both mirror drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and the like)?. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 00:39:41 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:39:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. J -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K This brings up another question, do you place both mirror drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and the like)?. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 01:09:17 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:09:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. J -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K This brings up another question, do you place both mirror drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and the like)?. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 15 05:33:58 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:33:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <40A52676.4080007@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001801c43a68$21a88ac0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Thanks Marty -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > MartyConnelly > Sent: 14 May 2004 21:05 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > If you are looking for Word VBA examples hunt around here > > http://word.mvps.org/Tutorials/index.htm > > and here is a list of sites > http://www.mvps.org/links.html#Word > > Cindy Meister's is good for mail merge problems > http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister/ > > Andy Lacey wrote: > > >I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and > >it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that > >interface to Word. > > > >I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce > quotations. What I > >want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to > two criteria. > >The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user > >can easily alter and can format them. These paras also > contain one or > >two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably > elegant, was > >to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative > paragraphs with > >a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is > >purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold > versions of the > >text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my > >data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so > pretty good. > >But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've > managed to > >achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the > >cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main > doc? If I > >use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete > >cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > single-cell > >table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I > only want > >to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't > for the life > >of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text > >property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I > don't know > >what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan > >for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have > this kind of > >trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got > an example > >to work from. > > > >-- > >Andy Lacey > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________ > >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 15 05:35:02 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:35:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c43a68$478e62a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > controller flakes. > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > insure that your pants stay up. > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > John, > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > old 40g to get > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > this week. In > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > - the registry etc. > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > anyone who may have experience in this. > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > - I am not a > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed software and development stuff never again die > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > specifically with this controller. I assume the > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > John W. Colby > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 15 05:37:26 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:37:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? In-Reply-To: <410-220045514175513907@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <001a01c43a68$9d8d4ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I'm a bit rusty here but I think Acrobat (v5 last time I used it) allowed you to setup in Distiller a port which was a folder. When you printed an Access report to the Distiller printer it created PDF named after the caption of the report (I think) in that folder. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: 14 May 2004 18:55 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > > > I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just > looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to > file, and specify a path. > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: mikedorism at adelphia.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 > > >We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of > >other PDF > >choices out there. > > > >Doris Manning > >Database Administrator > >Hargrove Inc. > >www.hargroveinc.com > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >Christopher > >Hawkins > >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > > > > > >With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I > >decided > >tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So > >far, > >I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. > > > >My Challenge: > > > >Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go > >out, and I > >want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print > >Preview each > >one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that > >will > >kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print > >their > >invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the > >client's record. > > > >Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the > >report? > >Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The > >part I > >cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own > >path in > >there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with > >the > >predefined formats Access ships with. > > > >Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? > > > >-Christopher- > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From djkr at msn.com Sat May 15 09:15:48 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:15:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K - OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c43a87$1eaf56e0$3500a8c0@dabsight> Reply posted on dba-Tech. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. < --- snip --- > From djkr at msn.com Sat May 15 09:52:41 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:52:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c43a8c$45fd09e0$3500a8c0@dabsight> Reply posted to dba-Tech. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: 15 May 2004 05:44 > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I < --- snip --- > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat May 15 16:21:39 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:21:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions Message-ID: <012001c43ac2$9cf1b850$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Is there a way to control what those buttons display? Change Yes to Si or Oui, for example. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Sat May 15 16:58:14 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:58:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions In-Reply-To: <012001c43ac2$9cf1b850$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000001c43ac7$b984af40$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Not without rolling out your own dialog form. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:22 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Is there a way to control what those buttons display? Change Yes to Si or Oui, for example. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 19:56:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 20:56:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K References: <001901c43a68$478e62a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <000401c43ae0$aaf0f560$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > > NT 4 Workstation. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > > controller flakes. > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > > insure that your pants stay up. > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > J > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > John, > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > Folks, > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > > old 40g to get > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > this week. In > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > > - the registry etc. > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > > anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > - I am not a > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > > installed software and development stuff never again die > > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > > specifically with this controller. I assume the > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 02:20:55 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 02:20:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <001901c43a68$478e62a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > controller flakes. > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > insure that your pants stay up. > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > John, > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > old 40g to get > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > this week. In > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > - the registry etc. > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > anyone who may have experience in this. > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > - I am not a > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed software and development stuff never again die > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > specifically with this controller. I assume the > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > John W. Colby > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 02:25:04 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 02:25:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry Andy! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > controller flakes. > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > insure that your pants stay up. > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > John, > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > old 40g to get > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > this week. In > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > - the registry etc. > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > anyone who may have experience in this. > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > - I am not a > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed software and development stuff never again die > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > specifically with this controller. I assume the > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > John W. Colby > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 16 07:41:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:41:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <000401c43ae0$aaf0f560$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <002f01c43b43$2bdba8c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. :-) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 16 May 2004 01:57 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) > > ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never > appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lacey" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to > > > have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from > > > server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that > you can put > > > both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a > > > channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two > > > controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. > > > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be > sure about > > > the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that > you gain a > > > channel by using both connectors, and thats just like > adding a pair > > > of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. > > > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely > > > can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are > > > shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read > somewhere, maybe on > > > winternals.com that you can use the software RAID > functionality of > > > Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on > > > the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to > > > giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and > > > the like)?. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all > > > that you have to do is load the drivers with the first > drive still > > > connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the > > > reboot, power down the system move the controller cable > to the RAID > > > controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure > you know > > > which connector is which. When the system reboots, the > RAID utility > > > runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make > sure that > > > the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than > Newegg, because > > > they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in > > > Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch > > > back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 > > > lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g > hard drive > > > bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying > > > around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace > it with a > > > 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support > > > large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed > and manually > > > edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get > > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > > this week. In > > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > > > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > > > - the registry etc. > > > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was > > > roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of > > > Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now > > > researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a > pair of Maxtor > > > 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition > (drive c:) > > > and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to > face) is a > > > Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the > > > weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for > a Maxtor > > > 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this > point is to > > > order a matching drive and the raid controller from > www.Egghead.com > > > and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of > questions > > > though for anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, > > > Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just > > > unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid > > > controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell > something to "set > > > up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same > partitions > > > (there are three of > > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > > - I am not a > > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed > > > software and development stuff never again die because a > disk dies. > > > I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but > > > can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the > > > thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the > > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 08:12:17 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 08:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <002f01c43b43$2bdba8c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: must be hard being you -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. :-) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 16 May 2004 01:57 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) > > ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never > appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lacey" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to > > > have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from > > > server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that > you can put > > > both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a > > > channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two > > > controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. > > > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be > sure about > > > the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that > you gain a > > > channel by using both connectors, and thats just like > adding a pair > > > of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. > > > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely > > > can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are > > > shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read > somewhere, maybe on > > > winternals.com that you can use the software RAID > functionality of > > > Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on > > > the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to > > > giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and > > > the like)?. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all > > > that you have to do is load the drivers with the first > drive still > > > connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the > > > reboot, power down the system move the controller cable > to the RAID > > > controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure > you know > > > which connector is which. When the system reboots, the > RAID utility > > > runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make > sure that > > > the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than > Newegg, because > > > they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in > > > Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch > > > back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 > > > lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g > hard drive > > > bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying > > > around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace > it with a > > > 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support > > > large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed > and manually > > > edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get > > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > > this week. In > > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > > > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > > > - the registry etc. > > > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was > > > roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of > > > Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now > > > researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a > pair of Maxtor > > > 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition > (drive c:) > > > and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to > face) is a > > > Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the > > > weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for > a Maxtor > > > 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this > point is to > > > order a matching drive and the raid controller from > www.Egghead.com > > > and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of > questions > > > though for anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, > > > Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just > > > unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid > > > controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell > something to "set > > > up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same > partitions > > > (there are three of > > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > > - I am not a > > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed > > > software and development stuff never again die because a > disk dies. > > > I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but > > > can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the > > > thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the > > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 16 10:19:13 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:19:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! In-Reply-To: <2135.216.43.21.235.1084559650.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: Another way to handle this is set the default value to 0 and have a "Zeroth record" that matches. Then set the "allow nulls" to false. The database engine will absolutely prevent the nulls from getting in there and will in fact error when it happens, allowing you to see when and why it is happening. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Greg Smith Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. Thanks again Lambert. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.net > Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here > is the reason for what you have observed... > > "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table > that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, you > can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the records > are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is assigned to > a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order that is > assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID field." > > So nulls are "ok". > > This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry > in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee > Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access will > automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll never get > any orphans that way. > > Lambert > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun May 16 10:25:29 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:25:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <20040514134304.1AC5A262429@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <40A74FA9.15253.340690@localhost> On 14 May 2004 at 14:43, Andy Lacey wrote: > can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in > code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy > that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the > embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am > I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. I don't use mail merge very often. I don't like it. So I may not be the best person to help :( I can duplicate what you are describing, but I can't select just the text. It's quite bizare. Tick, tock. Tick, Tock.... Well now after messing around some more I have a solution. What you need to do is reduce the range's size by 1 chartacter, which takes the cell marker out of the rang that you will be copying. Here's some code to show what I mean(and as always watch for wrap): Sub test() Dim doc As Document Dim cl As Cell Dim rngCL As Range Dim pasteDoc As Document 'Get the document with the table Set doc = ActiveDocument 'Get the Cell Set cl = doc.Tables(1).Cell(1, 2) 'Set the range to the cell Set rngCL = cl.Range 'Move the range's end point back one rngCL.End = rngCL.End - 1 'Now copy rngCL.Copy 'Get the doc where you will paste into Set pasteDoc = Documents.Add 'Paste pasteDoc.Range.Paste 'Close and release objects Set pasteDoc = Nothing Set cl = Nothing Set rngCL = Nothing Set doc = Nothing End Sub -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 16 11:27:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:27:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky et all (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has caused no problems yet. /gustav > Hi Rocky, > I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently > working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the > progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system > restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. > Regards, > Matt Pickering > LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD > http://www.lupo.net.nz > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: Gordon Bennett > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Gustav et al: > Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an > A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually > change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the > picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 > and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the > registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the > progress bar despite the reg key setting. > Any ideas on what's going on here? > TIA and regards, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > Gustav: > That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which > will definitely improve the quality of my products. > Best regards, > Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > Hi Rocky (and Seth) > Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by > Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. > Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line > breaks): > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 > Public Const REG_SZ = 1 > Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ > ByVal hKey As Long) As Long > Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ > ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long > Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > ByVal lpValueName As String, _ > ByVal Reserved As Long, _ > ByVal dwType As Long, _ > ByRef lpData As Any, _ > ByVal cbData As Long) As Long > Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ > hKey As Long, _ > PathVar As String, _ > ValueVar As String, _ > DataVar As String) > Dim hCurKey As Long > Dim Result As Long > Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > Len(DataVar)) > Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) > End Sub > Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) > Dim PathVar As String > Dim ValueVar As String > Dim DataVar As String > PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics > Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" > ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" > DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") > Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) > End Sub > > This worked for me out of the box. > But (Seth or anyone?) - I would like to be able to retrieve the setting > of the key too. > Something like: > Public Declare Function RegGetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > Alias "RegGetValueExA" > ... etc. > How can I do that? > The purpose would be to get the key when launching the app, set it to > "No" while running, and then resetting it to "Yes" when closing the app > if that was the initial setting. > Also, could you please explain why this line from the code above > contains "ByVal": > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > Len(DataVar)) > I know what ByVal means but have never seen it in a call of a function. > /gustav >> Thanks for that. The code solution didn't work - just make the >> progress bar flicker a bit shorter. But changing the key in the >> registry did work. Problem is, of course, it has to be changed on the >> target machine. Does anyone know how to get to a registry key through >> code? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >> Yeatman, Tony >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:03 AM >> To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash >> >> An article at Dev Ashish's site explains how to suppress the >> Loading Image Dialog. >> >> http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0038.htm >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Tony. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 16 11:39:25 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:39:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <40A74FA9.15253.340690@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c43b64$599a9d90$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Bryan, you are a Word genius. Will try this tomorrow but don't doubt it'll work if you say it does. My ConvertToText after pasting does work, but tgis would be far more elegant. Thanks. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Bryan Carbonnell > Sent: 16 May 2004 16:25 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > On 14 May 2004 at 14:43, Andy Lacey wrote: > > > can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in > > code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy > > that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do > with the > > embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) > help? Where am > > I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > I don't use mail merge very often. I don't like it. So I may not be > the best person to help :( > > I can duplicate what you are describing, but I can't select just the > text. It's quite bizare. > > Tick, tock. Tick, Tock.... > > Well now after messing around some more I have a solution. > > What you need to do is reduce the range's size by 1 chartacter, which > takes the cell marker out of the rang that you will be copying. > Here's some code to show what I mean(and as always watch for wrap): > > Sub test() > Dim doc As Document > Dim cl As Cell > Dim rngCL As Range > Dim pasteDoc As Document > > 'Get the document with the table > Set doc = ActiveDocument > 'Get the Cell > Set cl = doc.Tables(1).Cell(1, 2) > 'Set the range to the cell > Set rngCL = cl.Range > 'Move the range's end point back one > rngCL.End = rngCL.End - 1 > 'Now copy > rngCL.Copy > 'Get the doc where you will paste into > Set pasteDoc = Documents.Add > 'Paste > pasteDoc.Range.Paste > > 'Close and release objects > Set pasteDoc = Nothing > Set cl = Nothing > Set rngCL = Nothing > Set doc = Nothing > End Sub > > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca > I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 16 11:39:25 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:39:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003201c43b64$59bdb5f0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it (muses 'what's that from?') > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 16 May 2004 14:12 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > must be hard being you > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. > > :-) > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > William Hindman > > Sent: 16 May 2004 01:57 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) > > > > ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never > > appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) > > > > William Hindman > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > Dos Passos > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Lacey" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > > appears to > > > > have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from > > > > server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that > > you can put > > > > both drives on one cable but I also think that the > > controller has a > > > > channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two > > > > controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. > > > > > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be > > sure about > > > > the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that > > you gain a > > > > channel by using both connectors, and thats just like > > adding a pair > > > > of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your > pants stay up. > > > > > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely > > > > can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are > > > > shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read > > somewhere, maybe on > > > > winternals.com that you can use the software RAID > > functionality of > > > > Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of John W. > > > > Colby > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > > drives on > > > > the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any > advantage to > > > > giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous > operations and > > > > the like)?. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > > controller, all > > > > that you have to do is load the drivers with the first > > drive still > > > > connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the > > > > reboot, power down the system move the controller cable > > to the RAID > > > > controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure > > you know > > > > which connector is which. When the system reboots, the > > RAID utility > > > > runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make > > sure that > > > > the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than > > Newegg, because > > > > they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in > > > > Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me > to switch > > > > back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for > up to 150 > > > > lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of John W. > > > > Colby > > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g > > hard drive > > > > bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying > > > > around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace > > it with a > > > > 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support > > > > large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed > > and manually > > > > edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get > > > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > > > this week. In > > > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this > because of all > > > > the programs and individualized settings for each program > > > > - the registry etc. > > > > > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was > > > > roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the > delta cost of > > > > Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now > > > > researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a > > pair of Maxtor > > > > 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition > > (drive c:) > > > > and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to > > face) is a > > > > Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the > > > > weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for > > a Maxtor > > > > 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this > > point is to > > > > order a matching drive and the raid controller from > > www.Egghead.com > > > > and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of > > questions > > > > though for anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > > Win2K Pro, > > > > Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, > can I just > > > > unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid > > > > controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell > > something to "set > > > > up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same > > partitions > > > > (there are three of > > > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > > > - I am not a > > > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > > installed > > > > software and development stuff never again die because a > > disk dies. > > > > I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but > > > > can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of > setting the > > > > thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the > > > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 12:00:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:00:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Hi Rocky et all > > (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in > front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when > the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of > "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). > > Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: > A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. > > It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the > one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the > equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. > > Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It > shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it > when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where > pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has > caused no problems yet. > > /gustav > > > > Hi Rocky, > > > I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently > > working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the > > progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system > > restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. > > > Regards, > > > Matt Pickering > > LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD > > http://www.lupo.net.nz > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Cc: Gordon Bennett > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > > > > Gustav et al: > > > Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an > > A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually > > change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the > > picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 > > and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the > > registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the > > progress bar despite the reg key setting. > > > Any ideas on what's going on here? > > > TIA and regards, > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Gustav: > > > That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which > > will definitely improve the quality of my products. > > > Best regards, > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Hi Rocky (and Seth) > > > Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by > > Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. > > > Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line > > breaks): > > > > > > Option Compare Database > > Option Explicit > > > Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 > > > Public Const REG_SZ = 1 > > > Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ > > ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpValueName As String, _ > > ByVal Reserved As Long, _ > > ByVal dwType As Long, _ > > ByRef lpData As Any, _ > > ByVal cbData As Long) As Long > > > Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ > > hKey As Long, _ > > PathVar As String, _ > > ValueVar As String, _ > > DataVar As String) > > > Dim hCurKey As Long > > Dim Result As Long > > > Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) > > > End Sub > > > Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) > > > Dim PathVar As String > > Dim ValueVar As String > > Dim DataVar As String > > > PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics > > Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" > > ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" > > DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") > > > Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) > > > End Sub > > > > > > This worked for me out of the box. > > > But (Seth or anyone?) - I would like to be able to retrieve the setting > > of the key too. > > Something like: > > > Public Declare Function RegGetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegGetValueExA" > > ... etc. > > > How can I do that? > > The purpose would be to get the key when launching the app, set it to > > "No" while running, and then resetting it to "Yes" when closing the app > > if that was the initial setting. > > > Also, could you please explain why this line from the code above > > contains "ByVal": > > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > > I know what ByVal means but have never seen it in a call of a function. > > > /gustav > > > >> Thanks for that. The code solution didn't work - just make the > >> progress bar flicker a bit shorter. But changing the key in the > >> registry did work. Problem is, of course, it has to be changed on the > >> target machine. Does anyone know how to get to a registry key through > >> code? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >> Yeatman, Tony > >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:03 AM > >> To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' > >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > >> > >> An article at Dev Ashish's site explains how to suppress the > >> Loading Image Dialog. > >> > >> http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0038.htm > >> > >> Hope this helps. > >> > >> Tony. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 16 12:22:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:22:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> <00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> Hi William You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. /gustav > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun May 16 13:24:00 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:24:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <003101c43b64$599a9d90$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> References: <40A74FA9.15253.340690@localhost> Message-ID: <40A77980.31879.D77493@localhost> On 16 May 2004 at 17:39, Andy Lacey wrote: > Bryan, you are a Word genius. Will try this tomorrow but don't doubt > it'll work if you say it does. My ConvertToText after pasting does > work, but tgis would be far more elegant. Thanks. Genius, No. Stubborn S.O.B. You bet :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Why is it that inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the heck happened? From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 13:44:33 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:44:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk><00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will call the registry from if there is another way. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Hi William > > You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. > > The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it > every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well > documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame > your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. > > /gustav > > > > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing > > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to > > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so > > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an > > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 14:53:17 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:53:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040516195317.BQXT1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Why? How is Access more unstable in this regard than any other application? Susan H. ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will call the registry from if there is another way. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 15:42:45 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:42:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question Message-ID: <20040516204245.HZDG16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate those records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with the same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... Susan H. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sun May 16 15:51:16 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:51:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: <20040516204245.HZDG16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000b01c43b87$89dd1e10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate those > records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with the same > name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 15:57:55 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:57:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <000b01c43b87$89dd1e10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 17:02:15 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:02:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux References: <20040516195317.BQXT1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000601c43b91$732bbf00$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...ime, it corrupts far too easily Susan ...a corrupt mdb is one thing ...a corrupt registry is quite another ...when necessary I'll set registry entries manually or from the apis but only when a full bu is available ...flipping registry settings on/off from Access is pushing the envelope a bit more than I care to do ...gustav sees it differently ...caveat emptor :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Why? How is Access more unstable in this regard than any other application? > > Susan H. > > ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will > call the registry from if there is another way. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun May 16 17:09:51 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:09:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... or : record one record two record three something about record one something about record two something about record three something else about record one something else record two something else record three something more record one something more record one something more record one record four record five record six something about record four something about record five something about record six something more record one Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be welcome. bob From DaveSharpe2 at cox.net Sun May 16 17:10:56 2004 From: DaveSharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:10:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? References: <001a01c43a68$9d8d4ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <026f01c43b92$a99d5160$dd2f0a44@bcsrkeext6137> Christopher I use pdf995 from www.pdf995.com. I've never tried what You suggest. pdf995 uses an ini file that addresses where and what to stecify the output as. In http://www.pdf995.com/faq_dev.html They state the question "How can I modify the functionality of Pdf995 programmatically?" With the answer "PdfEdit modifies c:\pdf995\res\pdf995.ini to control the functionality of Pdf995. Programmers may invoke many of the features of PdfEdit by direct modification of pdf995.ini. " I think it can be done with pdf995 Dave -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: 14 May 2004 18:55 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and specify a path. -C- From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 17:27:52 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:27:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Hi, long read no write:-) Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 my global unique human identifier would be something like this; 104501533-NL-123456789 So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate values:-) Nighty night folks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 17:45:50 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:45:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mmmzzz the practical side about implementing this way of identifying is ofcourse a bit more difficult for there are so many ways to manipulate identification but I'd go for DNA manipulation before birth so every DNA string in the human body would carry this GUHI... :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question Hi, long read no write:-) Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 my global unique human identifier would be something like this; 104501533-NL-123456789 So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate values:-) Nighty night folks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:45:40 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 18:03:42 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:03:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Duh... last but not least, assuming our DNA is globally unique why manipulate? (must be bedtime for sure) Instead we'd best use the DNA barcode as a GUHI and add a Name-ID from our HNS kept up-to-date on th internet (our virtual sub-world). Would be interesting...once every single living object can be uniquely identified we'd never have to carry around our passport or social securitynumber etc.. it would all exist in the new world we created as an extra datalayer on top of the physical datalayer of which we exist:-) Anyway, Martin is right also since a UI key must always be present and a name combination alone will never be unique unless added with a unique element. BN, Eric Starkenburg -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question Hi, long read no write:-) Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 my global unique human identifier would be something like this; 104501533-NL-123456789 So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate values:-) Nighty night folks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 1:03:42 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From djkr at msn.com Sun May 16 18:03:27 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:03:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516204245.HZDG16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001e01c43b99$ffb60310$3500a8c0@dabsight> By having a table of people, of course. There is a one-to-many relationship between people and names. (Or more accurately a many-to-many relationship - but let's not get into that!) Each person with the name "John Smith" would be represented by a record (in the people table) containing a pointer to that name in the name table. If you had a table of eye colors, how would you deal with real people with the same eye color? It's the same question as yours, really. Eye color doesn't identify a person uniquely: nor does a name (well, some might). Sorry to sound simplistic, but that's it, really. No cliff to step off. There remains of course the issue of how to identify people uniquely - but that, as they say, is another story ... John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 16 May 2004 21:43 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and > you relate those records to other tables -- how to you deal > with real people with the same name? I feel like I'm stepping > off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:09:11 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:09:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: Message-ID: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "StaRKeY" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Duh... last but not least, assuming our DNA is globally unique why > manipulate? (must be bedtime for sure) Instead we'd best use the DNA barcode > as a GUHI and add a Name-ID from our HNS kept up-to-date on th internet (our > virtual sub-world). Would be interesting...once every single living object > can be uniquely identified we'd never have to carry around our passport or > social securitynumber etc.. it would all exist in the new world we created > as an extra datalayer on top of the physical datalayer of which we exist:-) > > Anyway, Martin is right also since a UI key must always be present and a > name combination alone will never be unique unless added with a unique > element. > > BN, > Eric Starkenburg > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY > Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Hi, long read no write:-) > > Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a > repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name > property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started > using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the > streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without > thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is > taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if > 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check > by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source > has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or > misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database > efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all > known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters > and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique > identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a > repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more > efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) > > Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has > for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a > HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination > instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so > we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... > > More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) > added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination > (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) > Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 > my global unique human identifier would be something like this; > 104501533-NL-123456789 > > So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate > values:-) > > > Nighty night folks > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? > Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to > distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to > get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a > duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous > chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as > well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) > > Susan H. > > Why would you have a table with only names? > > In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone > here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 1:03:42 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:25:10 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:25:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <001e01c43b99$ffb60310$3500a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <20040516232509.LBIA25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, I did think of that -- but then how do you determine which Mary Smith did what in your database? Through relationships of course, but one false move and zip...... you're telling Mary Smith at 101 First Street that she is indeed pregnant... No, you're not pregnant, Mary Smith... Well, yes you are -- when actually Mary Smith at 101 First Street IS pregnant, it's Mary Smith at 201 Main Street that is NOT pregnant -- know what I mean? The potential for mistakes seems horrendously large. One wrong relationship (pun intended) and let the data fall where it may! :) Of course, that would be true in any database -- but we tend to think of relating the data and transactions to the person or business, not the address or the hire date, or birth date, or whatever other value we end up having to use -- because Mary Smith isn't a duplicate, just her name is. :) Let's do it this way -- you have a table with just one Mary Smith, but you have two addresses linked to Mary Smith. Does Mary Smith have two addresses, or are there two Mary Smith's? You can't possibly know and the difference might be important. ON the other hand, you can easily see if NameID: 101 Mary Smith has two addresses or if NameID: 101 Mary Smith has one and NameID: 306 Mary Smith has another. What if it's both? What if one Mary Smith has two addresses and one Mary Smith has none or one? Or, what if there are 3 Mary Smiths... Could I BE more obnoxious? :) In the end, it seems like there has to be another distinguishing value, as Martin suggests or we have to accept some redundancy. OK, let chaos ensue! ;) Susan H. By having a table of people, of course. There is a one-to-many relationship between people and names. (Or more accurately a many-to-many relationship - but let's not get into that!) Each person with the name "John Smith" would be represented by a record (in the people table) containing a pointer to that name in the name table. If you had a table of eye colors, how would you deal with real people with the same eye color? It's the same question as yours, really. Eye color doesn't identify a person uniquely: nor does a name (well, some might). Sorry to sound simplistic, but that's it, really. No cliff to step off. There remains of course the issue of how to identify people uniquely - but that, as they say, is another story ... John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: 16 May 2004 21:43 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate > those records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with > the same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:25:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:25:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040516232540.LBLF25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Egads... Did I start this? ;) Susan H. Mmmzzz the practical side about implementing this way of identifying is ofcourse a bit more difficult for there are so many ways to manipulate identification but I'd go for DNA manipulation before birth so every DNA string in the human body would carry this GUHI... :-) From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:26:26 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:26:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040516232625.LBSC25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Have you tried columns? Susan H. Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:33:53 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:33:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Egads... I'm guessing normalization as we know it is dead! ;) OK, can we attach ourselves to a snowflake or something????? I know -- fractoids! :) Is it mathematically possible??????? ;) Hi, I'm fractoid 453298109B. :) Susan H. ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:35:46 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:35:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: <20040516232540.LBLF25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <007001c43b9e$836ff2c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...no doubt deliberately :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Egads... Did I start this? ;) > > Susan H. > > Mmmzzz the practical side about implementing this way of identifying is > ofcourse a bit more difficult for there are so many ways to manipulate > identification but I'd go for DNA manipulation before birth so every DNA > string in the human body would carry this GUHI... :-) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:39:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:39:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <007001c43b9e$836ff2c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040516233948.LFNJ25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Would I do that? It IS a serious question after all. :) Susan H. ...no doubt deliberately :) From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun May 16 18:47:11 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:47:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And of course as soon as I sent the message, I remembered "Columns" in the page setup menu. And that is the solution. Thanks anyway. Now I just need to only have the labels appear once for each horizontal section instead of for each record. TIA bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... or : record one record two record three something about record one something about record two something about record three something else about record one something else record two something else record three something more record one something more record one something more record one record four record five record six something about record four something about record five something about record six something more record one Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be welcome. bob -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun May 16 18:48:16 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:48:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: <20040516232625.LBSC25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Thanks Susan. Columns is the solution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report Have you tried columns? Susan H. Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 18:50:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <01e601c43ba0$a29079c0$6601a8c0@rock> I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. Any suggestions? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:54:19 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:54:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <01e601c43ba0$a29079c0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040516235418.LJQW25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:55:03 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:55:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <007c01c43ba1$34cefb90$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...no ...ANPK based normalization within a single db is safe because we can control the uniqueness of the AN sequence within any reasonable db size considerations ...DNA codes otoh are not controllable and therefore you cannot assume they are unique within your db structure ...much like SSNs ...most people think they're unique until they see a dupe. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:33 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Egads... I'm guessing normalization as we know it is dead! ;) OK, can we > attach ourselves to a snowflake or something????? I know -- fractoids! :) Is > it mathematically possible??????? ;) Hi, I'm fractoid 453298109B. :) > > Susan H. > > ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because > you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin > doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 16 18:52:42 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:52:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <000b01c43b87$89dd1e10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: To add to this point..... A table with names will not guarantee that a name is correct or unique; therefore a table with only that information can not be normalized. The only way that I have found it is possible, is if the full name with DOB as a minimum requirement and maybe SIN as added insurance. Even though a single SIN number should guarantee uniqueness, you are of course dealing with human data entry issues. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] normalization question Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate those > records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with the same > name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 19:02:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:02:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01f101c43ba2$4bf49f40$6601a8c0@rock> There's no "what if", Susan. You simply don't have such a table. I know several Bill Smiths and no less than five John Reids -- all living in Toronto, all in the computer biz, and none related to any other. Weird but true. Of course a duplicate is a repeated value, but there must be some way to distinguish them. In Canada we have SIN #s instead of SSNs, and according to CDN law you cannot use these except for situations related to Revenue Canada (our equivalent of the IRS). Admittedly, this complicates the issues you are raising. But there is always some way to individuate the John Reids. One lives at 124 Main Street, another at 111 Indian Road, etc., or maybe works for company XYZ (a bad choice, since two John Reids could work there). I have stumbled upon a similar situation regarding City names. Legend has it that the reason The Simpsons chose Springfield as the city in which the Simpsons live is because it is the most frequent City Name in USA. Last time I looked there were about 30 of them. So when I present a CityID combo|listbox, I always append the state, so the user knows which Springfield she is choosing. The same logic applies to the five occurrences of John Reid. There's no other way to go. They need an ANPK and your selection method needs one or more fields that distinguish them -- phone number might work, just as an example. On the chance that John Reid lives with John Reid II, then their names do not coincide. Should it happen that two unrelated John Reids share the same address and phone number, well, there goes my proposed solution: you would need to find another distinguishing column. My $.02, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Sun May 16 19:11:51 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:11:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516232509.LBIA25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002301c43ba3$8dde4a40$3500a8c0@dabsight> Yes, of course people are in a many-to-many relationship with addresses, too, for various reasons. I would be very wary of telling just some Mary Smith that whe was pregnant. However, a particular Mary Smith has presented herself recently for a pregnancy test, presumably, and has given her name & address / whatever to enable me to communicate the test results to her alone with certainty thereby identifying herself uniquely in this context. Context is important. In real life there is unlikely to be a problem here, so it is up to us to design data structures and systems which reflect real life when relevant, so that they are no more fragile, and have the opportunity to be much more robust. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 17 May 2004 00:25 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Well, I did think of that -- but then how do you determine > which Mary Smith did what in your database? Through > relationships of course, but one false move and zip...... > you're telling Mary Smith at 101 First Street that she is > indeed pregnant... No, you're not pregnant, Mary Smith... > Well, yes you are > -- when actually Mary Smith at 101 First Street IS pregnant, > it's Mary Smith at 201 Main Street that is NOT pregnant -- > know what I mean? The potential for mistakes seems > horrendously large. One wrong relationship (pun intended) and > let the data fall where it may! :) Of course, that would be > true in any database -- but we tend to think of relating the > data and transactions to the person or business, not the > address or the hire date, or birth date, or whatever other > value we end up having to use -- because Mary Smith isn't a > duplicate, just her name is. :) > > Let's do it this way -- you have a table with just one Mary > Smith, but you have two addresses linked to Mary Smith. Does > Mary Smith have two addresses, or are there two Mary Smith's? > You can't possibly know and the difference might be > important. ON the other hand, you can easily see if NameID: > 101 Mary Smith has two addresses or if NameID: 101 Mary Smith > has one and > NameID: 306 Mary Smith has another. What if it's both? > What if one Mary Smith has two addresses and one Mary Smith > has none or one? Or, what if there are 3 Mary Smiths... Could > I BE more obnoxious? :) > > In the end, it seems like there has to be another > distinguishing value, as Martin suggests or we have to accept > some redundancy. > > OK, let chaos ensue! ;) > > Susan H. > > By having a table of people, of course. There is a > one-to-many relationship between people and names. (Or more > accurately a many-to-many relationship - but let's not get > into that!) Each person with the name "John Smith" would be > represented by a record (in the people table) containing a > pointer to that name in the name table. > > If you had a table of eye colors, how would you deal with > real people with the same eye color? It's the same question > as yours, really. Eye color doesn't identify a person > uniquely: nor does a name (well, some might). > > Sorry to sound simplistic, but that's it, really. No cliff > to step off. There remains of course the issue of how to > identify people uniquely - but that, as they say, is another story ... > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > > Harkins > > Sent: 16 May 2004 21:43 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and > you relate > > those records to other tables -- how to you deal with real > people with > > the same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 19:13:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:13:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform References: <01e601c43ba0$a29079c0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001001c43ba3$d37c1910$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...a form dropped onto another form would be a subform ...are you establishing the master child relations and following the correct addressing procedures for subforms? William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform > I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As > a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and > it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it > ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but > it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew > the answer I've forgotten. > > Any suggestions? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 19:19:04 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:19:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <007c01c43ba1$34cefb90$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040517001903.SHRI11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Actually, I was just kidding, but I did run into a problem not too long ago with a corrupted db that started churning out used AN. :( Susan H. ...no ...ANPK based normalization within a single db is safe because we can control the uniqueness of the AN sequence within any reasonable db size considerations ...DNA codes otoh are not controllable and therefore you cannot assume they are unique within your db structure ...much like SSNs ...most people think they're unique until they see a dupe. From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 19:29:02 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <20040516235418.LJQW25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Sun May 16 19:34:40 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:34:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401c43ba6$bd6ffee0$3500a8c0@dabsight> A table OF names (or "with only names") is just that. It's not a table of people. You can enforce uniqueness if you wish: it's just a table of names. I have a client which is a translation agency. Their database includes a table of languages (unique language names only - except that I insist on having my own PK). Intermediate tables identify which translators translate from and to each language. Everything is normalized. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Lawrence (AccessD) > Sent: 17 May 2004 00:53 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > To add to this point..... > > A table with names will not guarantee that a name is correct > or unique; therefore a table with only that information can > not be normalized. The only way that I have found it is > possible, is if the full name with DOB as a minimum > requirement and maybe SIN as added insurance. Even though a > single SIN number should guarantee uniqueness, you are of > course dealing with human data entry issues. > > My two cents worth. > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Why would you have a table with only names? > > In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am > sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach > to this one. > > Martin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:42 PM > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and > you relate > those > > records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people > with the > > same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From KP at sdsonline.net Sun May 16 19:26:06 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:26:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? References: <001a01c43a68$9d8d4ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> <026f01c43b92$a99d5160$dd2f0a44@bcsrkeext6137> Message-ID: <00b701c43ba5$988bfc10$6501a8c0@user> Christopher - I have missed most of this thread, but pdf995 definitely allows you to save to a specific file name and folder - and to do that you just change the menu settings - it has a feature called 'Autoname'. You may need to buy the pdf995 'edit' version - I am not sure. But ask them - their support is good. I have several clients now using pdf995 - and I set up the autoname so that I can save pdf files to a specific path and name and attach the pdf's to emails without the users having to see the whole 'save pdf as...' dialog. Works well. HTH Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Sharpe To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Christopher I use pdf995 from www.pdf995.com. I've never tried what You suggest. pdf995 uses an ini file that addresses where and what to stecify the output as. In http://www.pdf995.com/faq_dev.html They state the question "How can I modify the functionality of Pdf995 programmatically?" With the answer "PdfEdit modifies c:\pdf995\res\pdf995.ini to control the functionality of Pdf995. Programmers may invoke many of the features of PdfEdit by direct modification of pdf995.ini. " I think it can be done with pdf995 Dave -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: 14 May 2004 18:55 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and specify a path. -C- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 19:39:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:39:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040517003940.UPBP17779.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I don't work much with tab controls, but I'm guessing it's just a syntax error with your references. Want to list them here? If we can see them, someone's sure to find the problem Susan H. Yes. Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 20:55:17 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:55:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <001001c43ba3$d37c1910$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <020601c43bb2$0080b930$6601a8c0@rock> Yes of course. It's been a while William but not THAT long! A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 8:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform ...a form dropped onto another form would be a subform ...are you establishing the master child relations and following the correct addressing procedures for subforms? William Hindman From papparuff at comcast.net Sun May 16 21:04:18 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000c01c43bb3$4c1d9b50$6601a8c0@papparuff> Arthur, Here's code that I use for setting the RecordSource for a Subform based on what has been selected in a listbox. Private Sub lstAttributes_Click() Dim strSQL As String Dim varItm As Variant Dim strValues As String ' Loop through the items selected in the listbox ' and concatenate the strValues string with ' each AttributeID selected in the listbox, followed ' by a comma (the delimiter) For Each varItm In lstAttributes.ItemsSelected strValues = strValues & _ lstAttributes.Column(0, varItm) & "," Next varItm ' Insure the user selects at least one value If strValues = "" Then MsgBox "You must select at least one item from the listbox" lstAttributes.SetFocus Exit Sub End If ' Remove the last comma from the txtSelectedItems textbox strValues = Left(strValues, Len(strValues) - 1) ' Build the SQL string using the IN operator and the values in the ' txtSelectedItems textbox strSQL = "SELECT AttributeID, AttributeName, " & _ "AttributeInstructions " & _ "FROM tbl_SpecialAttributes " & _ "WHERE AttributeID In (" & strValues & ");" ' Set the subform's RecordSource with the SQL string frm_SpecialAttributes_Sub.Form.RecordSource = strSQL End Sub John V. Ruff - The Eternal Optimist :-) Always Looking For Contract Opportunities Home: 253.588.2139 Cell: 253.307/2947 9306 Farwest Dr SW Lakewood, WA 98498 "Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed." Proverbs 16:3 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From papparuff at comcast.net Sun May 16 21:06:43 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:06:43 -0700 Subject: Recall: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Message-ID: The sender would like to recall the message, "[AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform". From papparuff at comcast.net Sun May 16 21:08:01 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:08:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform-Revisited In-Reply-To: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, I'm reposting the code I sent in my previoius message on this subject because the REM statements might have been a bit confusing. Here's code that I use for setting the RecordSource for a Subform based on what has been selected in a listbox. Private Sub lstAttributes_Click() Dim strSQL As String Dim varItm As Variant Dim strValues As String ' Loop through the items selected in the listbox ' and concatenate the strValues string with ' each AttributeID selected in the listbox, followed ' by a comma (the delimiter) For Each varItm In lstAttributes.ItemsSelected strValues = strValues & _ lstAttributes.Column(0, varItm) & "," Next varItm ' Insure the user selects at least one value If strValues = "" Then MsgBox "You must select at least one item from the listbox" lstAttributes.SetFocus Exit Sub End If ' Remove the last comma from the strValues string strValues = Left(strValues, Len(strValues) - 1) ' Build the SQL string using the IN operator and the values in the ' strValues string strSQL = "SELECT AttributeID, AttributeName, " & _ "AttributeInstructions " & _ "FROM tbl_SpecialAttributes " & _ "WHERE AttributeID In (" & strValues & ");" ' Set the subform's RecordSource with the SQL string frm_SpecialAttributes_Sub.Form.RecordSource = strSQL End Sub John V. Ruff - The Eternal Optimist :-) Always Looking For Contract Opportunities Home: 253.588.2139 Cell: 253.307/2947 9306 Farwest Dr SW Lakewood, WA 98498 "Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed." Proverbs 16:3 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 23:25:08 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:25:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I was told so William but had my doubts... so we actually do need to mess with DNA or any other object property to make ourselves unique... ohwell, it was nice fantasizing(?) anyway:-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 01:09 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] normalization question ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "StaRKeY" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Duh... last but not least, assuming our DNA is globally unique why > manipulate? (must be bedtime for sure) Instead we'd best use the DNA barcode > as a GUHI and add a Name-ID from our HNS kept up-to-date on th internet (our > virtual sub-world). Would be interesting...once every single living object > can be uniquely identified we'd never have to carry around our passport or > social securitynumber etc.. it would all exist in the new world we created > as an extra datalayer on top of the physical datalayer of which we exist:-) > > Anyway, Martin is right also since a UI key must always be present and a > name combination alone will never be unique unless added with a unique > element. > > BN, > Eric Starkenburg > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY > Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Hi, long read no write:-) > > Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a > repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name > property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started > using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the > streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without > thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is > taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if > 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check > by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source > has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or > misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database > efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all > known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters > and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique > identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a > repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more > efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) > > Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has > for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a > HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination > instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so > we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... > > More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) > added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination > (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) > Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 > my global unique human identifier would be something like this; > 104501533-NL-123456789 > > So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate > values:-) > > > Nighty night folks > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? > Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to > distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to > get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a > duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous > chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as > well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) > > Susan H. > > Why would you have a table with only names? > > In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone > here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 1:03:42 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 6:25:08 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From artful at rogers.com Mon May 17 00:17:26 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:17:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023301c43bce$3e5c3ab0$6601a8c0@rock> As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they do like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) and found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 Arthur Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, bad coding, identity theft, etc.). I don't have a solution. I simply recognize some of the deep problems herein. (Sometimes a single Gustav Brock could work for several companies simultaneously, and have multiple addresses -- at company 123 he lists his address in Denmark; at co. 234 he lists his address in Germany; at co. 345 he lists his address in Rotterdam.) Resolving all these to a single actual Gustav is problematic to say the least. Suppose Gustav also has multiple passports and multiple citizenships. I know several Canadians who have multiple citizenships, and this can decidely work against them. One friend of mine, a Canadian citizen born of French parents but born in Canada, spent a year in France and suddenly found himself drafted into the French army. (Granted this occurred in the 60's and the laws may have changed since, but at that time France took the position that any child born of French parents was a French citizen and therefore entitled to the privilege of being drafted.) And while we're on the subject of names, I am a big fan of Indian and Pakistani music, but owning over 100 CDs in these genres has not helped me deduce the family naming schemes in the slightest. For example, the best tabla player in the world (IMO) is Zakir Hussain. His father is Alla Rakha. His uncles are Ravi Shankar and Ali Ahkbar Khan. Could someone with knowledge of these familial naming schemes please explain same? Does anyone on this list comprehend these naming schemes? I would truly appreciate enlightenment in this area. Vaguely related, my second wife, from Spain, is named Samanth Ruskin Lema. The middle name comes from her father, the last name from her mother. Her mother's name is Flora Azucena Castro Lema, and Flora's father's surname was Castro. She married a man whose surname is Ruskin but nowhere in her name is this indicated. It is only indicated in the names of her children. I would be interested in replies from those non-North-American listers to learn what your naming schemes are. Given a mother whose name is W X, and a father whose name is Y Z, what will be the "family name" of their offspring? In the case of Alla Rakha and Zakir Hussain, there is no relationship whatever. I have no idea how they come up with their progeny's names. But I want to generalize the question and learn about the world's naming schemes. I have probably taken this thread way off-topic and apologize to the moderator(s) for this. But I find this question incredibly interesting, and even if distantly, it bears upon SSH's original question. International replies invited and encouraged. Maybe you should reply to me directly rather than clutter the AccessD thread with this stuff. But I am seriously interested in learning about the world's naming schemes. TIA, Arthur From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 17 03:05:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:05:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <1788960694.20040517100553@cactus.dk> Hi Susan Fractoid? Your mind is truly weird ... Back to the topic: Here we have had a personal id system since 1968 which main purpose is to uniquely identify each citizen for the authorities and others who need it like insurance companies and banks - they have access to a central database for verification. Actually it is quite clever; you get the number the day you are born and it contains your birth date plus four digits (where odd/even indicates your sex) so you can easily remember it. Further, it is Modulus 11 verified, so typing errors are avoided. Reported errors through the years have been extremely few and it has served its purpose well. /gustav > Egads... I'm guessing normalization as we know it is dead! ;) OK, can we > attach ourselves to a snowflake or something????? I know -- fractoids! :) Is > it mathematically possible??????? ;) Hi, I'm fractoid 453298109B. :) > Susan H. > ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because > you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin > doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 17 03:54:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:54:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk><00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <12911870959.20040517105424@cactus.dk> Hi William Hmmm, to me Access - no matter what version - certainly isn't that flaky. Remember, here we are changing a value only - not adding or deleting a key. If the API call is send, Windows handles it; if it fails during a crash, Windows does nothing. /gustav > ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will > call the registry from if there is another way. >> You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. >> >> The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it >> every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well >> documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame >> your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing >> > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to >> > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so >> > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an >> > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon May 17 05:06:13 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:06:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup of an Access database? (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a form.) Thanks in advance Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 17 05:12:19 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:12:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4916546021.20040517121219@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan Create an AutoExec macro and run your function from it. /gustav > Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup > of an Access database? > (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a > form.) From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon May 17 05:16:49 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:16:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: <291640.1084789009206.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> if you create a macro called Autoexec, then for the action select RunCode and then select the module to run. Autoexec should run each time you start up that database and then run the module. Message date : May 17 2004, 11:10 AM >From : rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Startup module Hi All, Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup of an Access database? (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a form.) Thanks in advance Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon May 17 05:25:13 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:25:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: Excellent. Thank you Paul and Gustav Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon May 17 08:54:35 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:54:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) Message-ID: My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was not his prey, and all ended well. But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after processing! After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this guy, and they raz me about it quite often. The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying such high taxes here! >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they do like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) and found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 Arthur Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, bad coding, identity theft, etc.). From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon May 17 09:09:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:09:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (norma lization question) Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8330@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > not his prey, and all ended well. > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > processing! > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > such high taxes here! > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > Reids, > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > do > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > and > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > a > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > Arthur > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > bad > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Mon May 17 09:17:39 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:17:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (norma lization question) Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BD0@mail2.wrsystems.com> As a life NRA member, I fail to see the relevance of this. This topic may be better served elsewhere. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > not his prey, and all ended well. > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > processing! > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > such high taxes here! > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > Reids, > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > do > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > and > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > a > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > Arthur > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > bad > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 09:19:32 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:19:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <1788960694.20040517100553@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040517141931.ZHTN24544.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hi Susan Fractoid? Your mind is truly weird ... ============You're just figuring that out? :) Back to the topic: Here we have had a personal id system since 1968 which main purpose is to uniquely identify each citizen for the authorities and others who need it like insurance companies and banks - they have access to a central database for verification. Actually it is quite clever; you get the number the day you are born and it contains your birth date plus four digits (where odd/even indicates your sex) so you can easily remember it. Further, it is Modulus 11 verified, so typing errors are avoided. Reported errors through the years have been extremely few and it has served its purpose well. ===========I guess in the end, what I've decided (for myself) is that even though a name may be repeated, as a representation of a unique "person" it is not redundant, therefore, it is OK to keep names in another table with seemingly less related facts, even if they're repeated. It is OK not to normalize names the same way you would city, state, and so on. There aren't two LA, Californias, but there are two (or many more) Mary Smith's. While you could normalize them the same way,I think it's unnecessary, unless of course the application's purpose somehow requires it. Of course that still doesn't solve the problem of knowing whether Mary Smith has two addresses or whether there are two Mary Smith's... But depending on the application, it may not even matter. If it does, you have to allow for it -- as you mention using some clever scheme. Susan H. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 09:21:56 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:21:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8330@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <000601c43c1a$4ed75e50$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > > not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > > processing! > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > > such high taxes here! > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > > Reids, > > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > > do > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > > and > > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > > a > > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > > Arthur > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > > bad > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Mon May 17 09:42:55 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:42:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (norma lization question) Message-ID: John, your story sounds very familiar, and I can assure you, it doesn't just happen among people with common names. Before finding gainful employment, I tried my hand at being an actor in Chicago. At the time, another actor named Steve Pickering also lived and worked in Chicago (and much more successfully than I did!....) Over the course of what I thought of as my career, I heard stories of this other Steve Pickering. One casting agent told me that they quit using him for some reason, then told me, "I hope we got the right one." Yeah, so did I. At one time, this other Steve Pickering and I lived about a mile away from each other, both near Lake Shore Drive. His girlfriend called him on the phone, got my number from 411, and had a conversation with my fianc?e (at the time). I heard it was quite an interesting conversation until both women realized they were talking about two different "Steve Pickering"s. This does point to one solution, though I think it is imperfect (for obvious reasons). The Screen Actor's Guild enforces a key of Actor Name, which is made of First Name, Middle Name, and Last Name. Two of these may be null. Each instance must be unique. If I joined SAG (a man can dream, can't he?), I would not be able to join as "Steve Pickering". I would have to use something else, like "Stephen Pickering" or "Stephen J Pickering" that has not yet been used. Again, while this may work (not always) for SAG, it is imperfect in the real world, when you are trying to convince a casting director that you are not THAT Steve Pickering, and he says that he was hoping that you were. Name is a poor key in and of itself. Something more descriptive is needed to differentiate people. As for the repeating value argument, it is interesting from a theoretical standpoint, but not very practical. For example, are "Smyth" or "Smythe" or "Smithee" misspellings of "Smith", or valid, different values? There probably isn't one pat answer. Who would want to maintain this? What does it get you? Steve -----John Clark's Original Message----- My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was not his prey, and all ended well. But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after processing! After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this guy, and they raz me about it quite often. The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying such high taxes here! >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they do like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) and found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 Arthur Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, bad coding, identity theft, etc.). From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon May 17 10:03:11 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:03:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You have to lay the labels and text boxes on top of one another in a single column. The width is whatever you need it to be in order to fit in your text. In On_Format of the detail section: If me.left < (ColumnWidthInInches * 1440) then 'code to hide all text boxes 'code to show all labels Me.NextRecord = false Else 'code to show all text boxes 'code to hide all labels End if Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report > > > And of course as soon as I sent the message, I remembered "Columns" in the > page setup menu. And that is the solution. Thanks anyway. > Now I just need to only have the labels appear once for each horizontal > section instead of for each record. > > TIA > > bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Report > > > Hello to the group, > > I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail > sections across a > page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... > > or : > > record one record two > record three > something about record one something about record two > something about > record three > something else about record one something else record two > something else > record three > something more record one something more record one > something more record > one > > > record four record five > record six > something about record four something about record five > something about > record six > something more record one > > Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be > welcome. > > bob > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Mon May 17 10:03:55 2004 From: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk (John R. Porter) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:03:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <000601c43c1a$4ed75e50$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <000401c43c20$2d27ce60$94249f82@ds.strath.ac.uk> How can you complain about political comments when you include the following in all your postings: "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > > not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > > processing! > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > > such high taxes here! > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > > Reids, > > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > > do > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > > and > > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > > a > > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > > Arthur > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > > bad > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon May 17 10:15:02 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:15:02 -0400 Subject: ADMIN - READ NOW!!!! RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose Message-ID: ** High Priority ** OK, that's it. This ends NOW!!!!! If you have a problem with a post, let one of the mods know. You can find our addresses at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/lists/moderators.htm We don't bite when you mail us privately, but we just might bite iuf this is done in public. Let me reiterate.... This OFF-TOPIC thread ends here and now. If you have a problem with a post, bring it to the attention of a moderator, IN PRIVATE. Bryan Carbonnell listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Your, now, grumpy listmaster >>> j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk 17-May-04 11:03:55 AM >>> How can you complain about political comments when you include the following in all your postings: "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > Lambert From chizotz at mchsi.com Mon May 17 10:24:10 2004 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:24:10 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: <051720041524.18197.7e26@mchsi.com> Hi Ryan, One method I have found useful is to set a default startup form and call the code I need to run from the OnOpen (or OnLoad, depending on what I need to do and when) event of that form. The AutoExec macro method also of course works, but this is another option to consider. Ron > > > > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup > of an Access database? > (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a > form.) > > Thanks in advance > Ryan > > Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd > June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the > relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is > recommended. > > Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author > immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all > copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended > recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on > this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and > any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they > are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a > result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own > virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered > in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member > practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available > for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's > principal place of business and its registered office. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 17 10:39:00 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:39:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux Message-ID: I see it differently too, William. Our commercial Access applications regularly make use of registry keys, as does every other application running under Windows. Our own keys are established in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and HKEY_CURRENT_USER when the application is installed, updated with the application is run, and removed if someone tampers with the license. How does that make an Access app any flakier than any other Windows apps? Windows applications work through the registry, so they can't really avoid writing to it. In fact, unless you work hard at intentionally screwing up the registry from Access through the API, it just not going to happen. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux ...ime, it corrupts far too easily Susan ...a corrupt mdb is one thing ...a corrupt registry is quite another ...when necessary I'll set registry entries manually or from the apis but only when a full bu is available ...flipping registry settings on/off from Access is pushing the envelope a bit more than I care to do ...gustav sees it differently ...caveat emptor :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Why? How is Access more unstable in this regard than any other application? > > Susan H. > > ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I > will call the registry from if there is another way. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 17 10:40:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:40:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLikea FACT! Message-ID: That's the method I always recommend, although clients sometimes object to it ... That, and an "other" condition in lookups and lists. Oh, well. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLikea FACT! Another way to handle this is set the default value to 0 and have a "Zeroth record" that matches. Then set the "allow nulls" to false. The database engine will absolutely prevent the nulls from getting in there and will in fact error when it happens, allowing you to see when and why it is happening. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Greg Smith Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. Thanks again Lambert. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.net > Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here > is the reason for what you have observed... > > "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table > that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, > you can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the > records are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is > assigned to a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order > that is assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID > field." > > So nulls are "ok". > > This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry > in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee > Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access > will automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll > never get any orphans that way. > > Lambert > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon May 17 11:05:51 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Problems with MSysModules2 Message-ID: <20040517160551.31591.qmail@web20415.mail.yahoo.com> I have a weird situaltion. All of a sudden my users cannot get into a database after one person opens a copy of it. They are getting the following message: The database engine couldn't lock table 'MSysModules2' because it's already in use by another person or process. Now the funny thing is that the database they are opening is a front end mdb that each of them have a copy of. No two people are opening the same database. This is happening over a network. Each user has their own home directory with a copy of this database. The back is SQL Server 2000. Can anyone help!!!! May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon May 17 12:35:46 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:35:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access Message-ID: <000501c43c35$63304ea0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> My friend Nancy Lytle is having trouble posting to AccessD from her work email so I'm posting this on her behalf. ********************* I am working at a small company that sells very high end audio/visual assemblies and installation and integration with home automation systems. We have sales people who get the clients and jobs and then turn them into specific orders which are then fabricated/assembled and then put in a holding area until they are packed on the truck to go to the site (usually a house being constructed). Items occasionally are returned to the warehouse. We do not keep a real inventory, we order and have on hand only the items the clients have ordered. The only things we "stock" are things like wiring and racks since we have very limited warehouse space. We have an Access database where we keep the information on clients, jobs, orders, purchase orders, contracts, quotes, etc are keep. We are thinking about add the use of barcodes to the database to 1) track employee time on jobs, they do fabrication and installation for multiple jobs in a day and 2) track the A/V equipment that is ordered for a client and used in the fabrication of their order, in other words track from PO to receiving to shelving to fabrication to pick/pack list to return to office (if not used). The concerns seem to be billing the clients properly for the time the assemblers/installers work a job, and keeping tighter control on the "inventory" we do have on hand, so we know if a piece if equipment has come in, if so where it is and if the order was not completely filled - how many remain to be received, etc. I wanted to ask about other people's what their experiences with barcoding as part of an Access solution and their opinions on whether barcoding might be of use in this type of situation or if some other solution might be better. Nancy Lytle nlytle at allaroundtech.com ******************** Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 17 14:15:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:15:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access Message-ID: Nancy, My company is heading in the same direction. I'm currently logging time card punches using employee badges (not linked yet to jobs), which is all done via barcode readers. Once the basic's are done and working smoothly(we are almost their) we will be linking to an Oracle backend and developing tracking based on P.O.#'s and Workorder#'s. Haven't run into anything major yet, but your mileage may very. It all depends on planning out the project before jumping in. Most of the code I have done in this application is error trapping employee's double(triple...) swiping their badge. If you have any questions, let me know. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:36 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access My friend Nancy Lytle is having trouble posting to AccessD from her work email so I'm posting this on her behalf. ********************* I am working at a small company that sells very high end audio/visual assemblies and installation and integration with home automation systems. We have sales people who get the clients and jobs and then turn them into specific orders which are then fabricated/assembled and then put in a holding area until they are packed on the truck to go to the site (usually a house being constructed). Items occasionally are returned to the warehouse. We do not keep a real inventory, we order and have on hand only the items the clients have ordered. The only things we "stock" are things like wiring and racks since we have very limited warehouse space. We have an Access database where we keep the information on clients, jobs, orders, purchase orders, contracts, quotes, etc are keep. We are thinking about add the use of barcodes to the database to 1) track employee time on jobs, they do fabrication and installation for multiple jobs in a day and 2) track the A/V equipment that is ordered for a client and used in the fabrication of their order, in other words track from PO to receiving to shelving to fabrication to pick/pack list to return to office (if not used). The concerns seem to be billing the clients properly for the time the assemblers/installers work a job, and keeping tighter control on the "inventory" we do have on hand, so we know if a piece if equipment has come in, if so where it is and if the order was not completely filled - how many remain to be received, etc. I wanted to ask about other people's what their experiences with barcoding as part of an Access solution and their opinions on whether barcoding might be of use in this type of situation or if some other solution might be better. Nancy Lytle nlytle at allaroundtech.com ******************** Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon May 17 15:08:57 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:08:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names, Uniqueness and Normalization In-Reply-To: <200405171700.i4HH0SQ16412@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517145139.017d9e88@pop3.highstream.net> It has been interesting reading about the impossible unique keying of names. And the mistakes other systems make in trying to use something like social security number for a unique key. Unfortunately, our names are not unique, nor will they really ever be. I have 2 sons, twins, that have a fair chance at it. We made up their first names, Calen and Braeg. Tried to give them a Gaelic sounding name. So, in the end, names are not unique. The best design for a Party table would be something like: Party_ID Autonumber Salutation Text(20) FirstName Text(20) MiddleName Text(20) MiddleName2 Text(20) LastName Text(20) NameSuffix Text(20) GoesBy Text(20) GreetingUsed Test(40) You might be able to enforce uniqueness across all but the party_id, but, depending on the number of entries into the database, you might still have problems. And, adding in a birth date would also help but still could be a problem in a database of millions of names. Note: MiddleName2 is there because some people, like my oldest, do have 2 middle names. I would never add phone number or address into the mix because they can change too easily. You might want to store them and keep a history of them so you could identify a person through that history, like the large credit verification companies. One of the companies I work with is a non-profit social service agency that has a lot of people doing community service. They are going to a time clock that do a fingerprint biometric. Now, that is a pretty unique way of identifying a person and the name they carry. ;-) It was also interesting to read another post in the same digest about normalizing names. Going a bit further with that, it really depends on the size of the database. In the class that I teach, I used the example of a company that created phone books. How many tables would it take to completely normalize that data? Well, I gave them a month to think about it and then we went over it. We came up with between 27 and 31 tables. If someone is interested in some of our thoughts about it, I will post them for you to the list. Otherwise, I will not waste the space. Robert From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Mon May 17 15:24:30 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:24:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names, Uniqueness and Normalization Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C1801061441D3@EXCHMAIL> Not all people (my dad for instance) have fingerprints :) D Robert L. Stewart wrote: One of the companies I work with is a non-profit social service agency that has a lot of people doing community service. They are going to a time clock that do a fingerprint biometric. Now, that is a pretty unique way of identifying a person and the name they carry. ;-) From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 17 15:48:14 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:48:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access References: <000501c43c35$63304ea0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <40A9250E.2090800@shaw.ca> Here is a starting point on barcodes,EAN/UPC's, 2-D barcodes and barcode readers including PDA's I think a simple 3of9 code would be easier than getting into UPC's http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/barcode1.cgi Mike & Doris Manning wrote: >My friend Nancy Lytle is having trouble posting to AccessD from her work >email so I'm posting this on her behalf. > >********************* > >I am working at a small company that sells very high end audio/visual >assemblies and installation and integration with home automation systems. >We have sales people who get the clients and jobs and then turn them into >specific orders which are then fabricated/assembled and then put in a >holding area until they are packed on the truck to go to the site (usually a >house being constructed). Items occasionally are returned to the warehouse. >We do not keep a real inventory, we order and have on hand only the items >the clients have ordered. The only things we "stock" are things like wiring >and racks since we have very limited warehouse space. > >We have an Access database where we keep the information on clients, jobs, >orders, purchase orders, contracts, quotes, etc are keep. We are thinking >about add the use of barcodes to the database to 1) track employee time on >jobs, they do fabrication and installation for multiple jobs in a day and 2) >track the A/V equipment that is ordered for a client and used in the >fabrication of their order, in other words track from PO to receiving to >shelving to fabrication to pick/pack list to return to office (if not used). > >The concerns seem to be billing the clients properly for the time the >assemblers/installers work a job, and keeping tighter control on the >"inventory" we do have on hand, so we know if a piece if equipment has come >in, if so where it is and if the order was not completely filled - how many >remain to be received, etc. > >I wanted to ask about other people's what their experiences with barcoding >as part of an Access solution and their opinions on whether barcoding might >be of use in this type of situation or if some other solution might be >better. > >Nancy Lytle >nlytle at allaroundtech.com > >******************** > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 15:49:31 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:49:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) References: <000401c43c20$2d27ce60$94249f82@ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...signature line John ...not a post :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Porter" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > How can you complain about political comments when you include the following in all your postings: > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ? > > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > > John R. Porter > I.T. Services > University of Strathclyde > Faculty of Education > 76 Southbrae Drive > Glasgow > G13 1PP > e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk > Tel. 0141 950 3289 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > > ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > > > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else > who > > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > > (normalization question) > > > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > > > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > > > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > > > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > > > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > > > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > > > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > > > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > > > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > > > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > > > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > > > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > > > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > > > not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > > > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > > > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > > > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > > > processing! > > > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > > > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > > > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > > > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > > > such high taxes here! > > > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > > > Reids, > > > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > > > do > > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > > > and > > > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > > > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > > > a > > > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > > > Arthur > > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > > > bad > > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 17 16:10:45 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:10:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <000201c43c53$6bc23ba0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Was there some bit of Bryan's post that wasn't clear? Perhaps "This ends NOW!!!!!" was a bit ambiguous. Everyone else please do NOT get goaded into responding. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 17 May 2004 21:50 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > rose;was (normalization question) > > > ...signature line John ...not a post :) > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Porter" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > How can you complain about political comments when you include the > following in all your postings: > > > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > Dos Passos > > ? > > > > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > > > > John R. Porter > > I.T. Services > > University of Strathclyde > > Faculty of Education > > 76 Southbrae Drive > > Glasgow > > G13 1PP > > e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk > > Tel. 0141 950 3289 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > Hindman > > Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > > > ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. > > > > William Hindman > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > Dos Passos > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > > > > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and > everyone > > > else > > who > > > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing > > > heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > > > > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's > > > > pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I > was shocked > > > > to discover that they tracked these things by name > only. I thought > > > > I found a major problem, when they gave me their > original tables > > > > and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me > that SSN > > > > was not required data. > > > > > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a > programmer and as > > > > a private citizen. I told them about a personal > situation of mine > > > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W > Clark. The name > itself > > > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My > > > > friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of > > > > another local > guy > > > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years > ago. I was > > > > in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was > introduced to a guy > > > > who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these > days, but > > > > thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, > because after > > > > speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was > > > > someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a > bit in high > > > > school, shared the same name > as > > > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical > > > > characteristics. > This > > > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, > according > > > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was > looking at > > > > a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was > someone else, > > > > and > that > > > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently > paroled > > > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of > me, when I > left > > > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and > discovered that I > > > > was not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse > happened. > > > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors > arrived > > > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, > > > > showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, > > > > they did want > John > > > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this > > > > turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at > work--had > > > > I been > there, > > > > they would have sorted it out, at the county > jail--probably after > > > > processing! > > > > > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that > I would be > doing > > > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told > > > > them > all > > > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if > the name came > > > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty > familiar with > this > > > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check > to Albany, > > > > and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How > the hell do > > > > they > know > > > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If > there are > > > > two > in > > > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more > > > > people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own > > > > thing. > I > > > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all > have their > > > > own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why > > > > were > paying > > > > such high taxes here! > > > > > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I > know 5 John > > > > Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them > > > > Irish, they do > > > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does > anyone else LOVE > > > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number > > > > database) and found a painter of the same name died > early in the > > > > last century and no less than 20 identical names in > Canada alone. > > > > > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something > unique and you > > > > have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it > could happen > > > > that 2 Arthur > > > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, > but possible). > > > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique > (counterfeit IDs, > > > > bad > > > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 16:27:21 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:27:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) References: <000201c43c53$6bc23ba0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <005501c43c55$bd033fd0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...excuse me Andy but I posted before reading Bryan's post ...I'm only 97% prescient these days. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > Was there some bit of Bryan's post that wasn't clear? Perhaps "This ends > NOW!!!!!" was a bit ambiguous. Everyone else please do NOT get goaded into > responding. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > William Hindman > > Sent: 17 May 2004 21:50 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > ...signature line John ...not a post :) > > > > William Hindman > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John R. Porter" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > > How can you complain about political comments when you include the > > following in all your postings: > > > > > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > > Dos Passos > > > ? > > > > > > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > > > > > > John R. Porter > > > I.T. Services > > > University of Strathclyde > > > Faculty of Education > > > 76 Southbrae Drive > > > Glasgow > > > G13 1PP > > > e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk > > > Tel. 0141 950 3289 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > > Hindman > > > Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > > (normalization question) > > > > > > > > > ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. > > > > > > William Hindman > > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > > Dos Passos > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > > (normalization question) > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and > > everyone > > > > else > > > who > > > > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing > > > > heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > > > > > > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > > > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's > > > > > pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I > > was shocked > > > > > to discover that they tracked these things by name > > only. I thought > > > > > I found a major problem, when they gave me their > > original tables > > > > > and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me > > that SSN > > > > > was not required data. > > > > > > > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a > > programmer and as > > > > > a private citizen. I told them about a personal > > situation of mine > > > > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W > > Clark. The name > > itself > > > > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My > > > > > friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of > > > > > another local > > guy > > > > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years > > ago. I was > > > > > in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was > > introduced to a guy > > > > > who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these > > days, but > > > > > thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, > > because after > > > > > speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was > > > > > someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a > > bit in high > > > > > school, shared the same name > > as > > > > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical > > > > > characteristics. > > This > > > > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, > > according > > > > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was > > looking at > > > > > a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was > > someone else, > > > > > and > > that > > > > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently > > paroled > > > > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of > > me, when I > > left > > > > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and > > discovered that I > > > > > was not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > > > > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse > > happened. > > > > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > > > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors > > arrived > > > > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, > > > > > showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, > > > > > they did want > > John > > > > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this > > > > > turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at > > work--had > > > > > I been > > there, > > > > > they would have sorted it out, at the county > > jail--probably after > > > > > processing! > > > > > > > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that > > I would be > > doing > > > > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told > > > > > them > > all > > > > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if > > the name came > > > > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty > > familiar with > > this > > > > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > > > > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check > > to Albany, > > > > > and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How > > the hell do > > > > > they > > know > > > > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If > > there are > > > > > two > > in > > > > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more > > > > > people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > > > > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own > > > > > thing. > > I > > > > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all > > have their > > > > > own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why > > > > > were > > paying > > > > > such high taxes here! > > > > > > > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > > > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I > > know 5 John > > > > > Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them > > > > > Irish, they do > > > > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does > > anyone else LOVE > > > > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > > > > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number > > > > > database) and found a painter of the same name died > > early in the > > > > > last century and no less than 20 identical names in > > Canada alone. > > > > > > > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something > > unique and you > > > > > have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it > > could happen > > > > > that 2 Arthur > > > > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, > > but possible). > > > > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique > > (counterfeit IDs, > > > > > bad > > > > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 17 16:43:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:43:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAED5@main2.marlow.com> A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I told him he would probably be better off building a forum from scratch. It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I want to do next. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. :-) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 17 16:47:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAED6@main2.marlow.com> Well if you've been playing Russian roulette, and you're around to talk about it, you're probably pretty good at it! Practice practice practice. Sorry for the OT reply....just couldn't resist. I must disagree with the 'registry' fear though. The registry is just a database. If you interact, let's say with your company's accounting database, do you do a complete backup before you interact with it? Of course not. Then again, you don't push something out the door untested. Sure, during testing you would want a backup readily available, but I really don't see an issue with changing registry values programmatically. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Hi Rocky et all > > (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in > front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when > the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of > "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). > > Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: > A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. > > It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the > one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the > equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. > > Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It > shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it > when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where > pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has > caused no problems yet. > > /gustav > > > > Hi Rocky, > > > I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently > > working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the > > progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system > > restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. > > > Regards, > > > Matt Pickering > > LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD > > http://www.lupo.net.nz > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Cc: Gordon Bennett > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > > > > Gustav et al: > > > Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an > > A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually > > change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the > > picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 > > and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the > > registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the > > progress bar despite the reg key setting. > > > Any ideas on what's going on here? > > > TIA and regards, > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Gustav: > > > That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which > > will definitely improve the quality of my products. > > > Best regards, > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Hi Rocky (and Seth) > > > Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by > > Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. > > > Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line > > breaks): > > > > > > Option Compare Database > > Option Explicit > > > Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 > > > Public Const REG_SZ = 1 > > > Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ > > ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpValueName As String, _ > > ByVal Reserved As Long, _ > > ByVal dwType As Long, _ > > ByRef lpData As Any, _ > > ByVal cbData As Long) As Long > > > Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ > > hKey As Long, _ > > PathVar As String, _ > > ValueVar As String, _ > > DataVar As String) > > > Dim hCurKey As Long > > Dim Result As Long > > > Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) > > > End Sub > > > Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) > > > Dim PathVar As String > > Dim ValueVar As String > > Dim DataVar As String > > > PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics > > Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" > > ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" > > DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") > > > Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) > > > End Sub > > > > > > This worked for me out of the box. > > > But (Seth or anyone?) - I would like to be able to retrieve the setting > > of the key too. > > Something like: > > > Public Declare Function RegGetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegGetValueExA" > > ... etc. > > > How can I do that? > > The purpose would be to get the key when launching the app, set it to > > "No" while running, and then resetting it to "Yes" when closing the app > > if that was the initial setting. > > > Also, could you please explain why this line from the code above > > contains "ByVal": > > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > > I know what ByVal means but have never seen it in a call of a function. > > > /gustav > > > >> Thanks for that. The code solution didn't work - just make the > >> progress bar flicker a bit shorter. But changing the key in the > >> registry did work. Problem is, of course, it has to be changed on the > >> target machine. Does anyone know how to get to a registry key through > >> code? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >> Yeatman, Tony > >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:03 AM > >> To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' > >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > >> > >> An article at Dev Ashish's site explains how to suppress the > >> Loading Image Dialog. > >> > >> http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0038.htm > >> > >> Hope this helps. > >> > >> Tony. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon May 17 20:44:34 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:44:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAED5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40A93242.19516.1441640@localhost> On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] From shait at mindspring.com Mon May 17 21:35:50 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:35:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names, Uniqueness and Normalization In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517145139.017d9e88@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200405171700.i4HH0SQ16412@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40A93E46.18222.17F9860@localhost> Robert L. Stewart wrote: > about it and then we went over it. We came up with between 27 and > 31 tables. If someone is interested in some of our thoughts about > it, I will post them for you to the list. Otherwise, I will not > waste the space. I'd be interested in your thoughts about the 27-31 tables. If no one else is, I'd appreciate those thoughts off-list. Regards, Stephen From artful at rogers.com Mon May 17 23:01:40 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:01:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <03c301c43c8c$d3256db0$6601a8c0@rock> A signature line is a post, or at least part of one. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 4:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) ...signature line John ...not a post :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Tue May 18 00:03:13 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:03:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional IF for display of Sub report Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to hide/show a subreport depending on the value of a field in the main report. It is a report on animal licences and if the report is approved I need to show conditions of approval, if refused grounds for refusal. Both of which are set up in sub reports named subreport2 and subreport3. The decision is shown on the main report as a field named Status. I have been trying to add it to the report open as follows but am getting an error on the value of the Status any comments or help appreciated. Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) If Me.Status = "Approved" Then Report.subreport3.Visible = "true" Else: Report.subreport2.Visible = "true" End Sub Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange Ph: 02 6391 3250 Fax:02 6391 3290 This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 01:06:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:06:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional IF for display of Sub report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AA34A0.30235.10E1D2E6@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 15:03, connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.go wrote: > > Hello, > > I am trying to hide/show a subreport depending on the value of a field in > the main report. > > It is a report on animal licences and if the report is approved I need to > show conditions of approval, if refused grounds for refusal. Both of which > are set up in sub reports named subreport2 and subreport3. The decision is > shown on the main report as a field named Status. > > I have been trying to add it to the report open as follows but am getting > an error on the value of the Status any comments or help appreciated. > Set in in the Detail_Format -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 03:25:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:25:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional IF for display of Sub report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1477916833.20040518102552@cactus.dk> Hi Connie First "true" must be True as: Report.subreport3.Visible = True Also, you may need to hide the subreport: Dim booStatus As Boolean booStatus = (Me.Status = "Approved") Report.subreport3.Visible = booStatus Report.subreport2.Visible = Not booStatus /gustav > I am trying to hide/show a subreport depending on the value of a field in > the main report. > It is a report on animal licences and if the report is approved I need to > show conditions of approval, if refused grounds for refusal. Both of which > are set up in sub reports named subreport2 and subreport3. The decision is > shown on the main report as a field named Status. > I have been trying to add it to the report open as follows but am getting > an error on the value of the Status any comments or help appreciated. > Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) > If Me.Status = "Approved" Then Report.subreport3.Visible = "true" Else: > Report.subreport2.Visible = "true" > End Sub > Connie Kamrowski From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue May 18 04:29:54 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:29:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <03c301c43c8c$d3256db0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <40A99F52.16270.1A9AB1@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 0:01, Arthur Fuller wrote: > A signature line is a post, or at least part of one. Arthur...... -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I've learned.... That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done. From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Tue May 18 04:50:35 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:50:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions References: <012001c43ac2$9cf1b850$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001b01c43cbd$91fd5240$3f412d3e@jester> Rocky, to my knowledge the msgboxbuttons show the OS language settings equivelants for 'Yes' and 'No'. At least in my situation. On my developing machine the show 'Yes' and 'No' because i am running english MS winXP pro and the users see 'ja' and 'nee' (Dutch) because the application is running on a Dutch MS win2000 pro PC. HTH Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions > Dear List: > > I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and > 'No' buttons. Is there a way to control what those buttons display? Change > Yes to Si or Oui, for example. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 18 06:55:56 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:55:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8D8@stekelbes.ithelps.local> How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 18 07:51:01 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:51:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access Message-ID: Barcoding in Access is actually very easy to do. It has been an effective solution for me in inventory control. I downloaded barcoding fonts from Elfring and paid approx. $100 for them. Works great! We print the labels for our products on 8-1/2X11 labels and simply stick them on the product. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 08:02:35 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:02:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: Although I have no experience with this, your post intrigued me. I found this...I hope it helps. http://www.outlook-tips.net/howto/send_link.htm. Basically it involves adding a registry key. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 08:04:52 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:04:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: On a second pass, perhaps this is closer to what you had in mind. http://www.outlookcode.com/codedetail.aspx?id=314 Mark -----Original Message----- From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:21:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:21:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3825641810.20040518152117@cactus.dk> Hi Julie or her who asked. That's true. And some barcode fonts are available for free. Look up the archive. /gustav > Barcoding in Access is actually very easy to do. It has been an effective > solution for me in inventory control. I downloaded barcoding fonts from > Elfring and paid approx. $100 for them. Works great! > We print the labels for our products on 8-1/2X11 labels and simply stick > them on the product. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue May 18 09:33:00 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:33:00 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: <20040518133257.B5B50254FF3@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Great link Mark. Thanks for finding it. Lots of Outlook coding stuff here. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Date: 18/05/04 13:16 > > On a second pass, perhaps this is closer to what you had in mind. > > http://www.outlookcode.com/codedetail.aspx?id=314 > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. > > > > How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an > E-mail. > > I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail > while I am in the regular e-mail list. > Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to > perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. > > Greetz > > > Erwin Craps > > Zaakvoerder > > www.ithelps.be/jonathan > > > > This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the > intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or > reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal > offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to > the sender. > > IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg > > www.ithelps.be <http://www.ithelps.be/> * www.boxoffice.be > <http://www.boxoffice.be/> * www.stadleuven.be > <http://www.stadleuven.be/> > > IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven > > IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: > Info at ithelps.be > > Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: > Staff at boxoffice.be <mailto:figures at boxoffice.be> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Tue May 18 08:09:58 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:39:58 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function Message-ID: Hi All, I'm having a problem with a line of code that I use to remove a file path from a File name in a Field. The code is Me.ctlImagePath = Right(Me.ctlImagePath, Len(Me.ctlImagePath)- InstrRev(me.ctlImagePath,"\")) The Error I'm Getting is Error 5 Invalid Argument,call or Procedure This is really frustrating as it worked fime a month ago. I can't help but think I need to reference something for it to work however I have no idea what to reference. any help would be great. Cheers Dean From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:57:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:57:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9127786534.20040518155701@cactus.dk> Hi Dean If ctlImagePath is Null, this will fail. As for the references, just that none are marked as "Missing". /gustav > I'm having a problem with a line of code that I use to remove a file path > from a File name in a Field. The code is > Me.ctlImagePath = Right(Me.ctlImagePath, Len(Me.ctlImagePath)- > InstrRev(me.ctlImagePath,"\")) > The Error I'm Getting is Error 5 Invalid Argument,call or Procedure > This is really frustrating as it worked fime a month ago. I can't help but > think I need to reference something for it to work however I have no idea > what to reference. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 08:59:37 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:59:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function Message-ID: When I do a search in the object browser it shows as being in the VBA Library. Reference: Visual Basic For Applications. The path is too long to view completely, but here is the partial path as shown for my installation. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VB... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Tue May 18 09:39:38 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:39:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0DB@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Hello Dean! Does this fail for all path and file names? Do your path &/or file names have spaces in them? Regards Chris Foote - UK > -----Original Message----- > From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function > > > Hi All, > > I'm having a problem with a line of code that I use to remove > a file path > from a File name in a Field. The code is > > Me.ctlImagePath = Right(Me.ctlImagePath, Len(Me.ctlImagePath)- > InstrRev(me.ctlImagePath,"\")) > > The Error I'm Getting is Error 5 Invalid Argument,call or Procedure > > This is really frustrating as it worked fime a month ago. I > can't help but > think I need to reference something for it to work however I > have no idea > what to reference. > > any help would be great. > > Cheers > > Dean From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 18 10:01:05 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:01:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8E0@stekelbes.ithelps.local> :---)))))) I have on my face, the smile of my 4 year old kid that just got an icecream.... Thanks Marc Looks like a great website, I have some other outlook stuff thjat keep bugging me... Programming in Outlook is not that 123 simple straight forward :-( -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. On a second pass, perhaps this is closer to what you had in mind. http://www.outlookcode.com/codedetail.aspx?id=314 Mark -----Original Message----- From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 10:44:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:44:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 11:19:45 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:19:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the ability to include an attached file. A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to Outlook is required." Mark -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 11:50:18 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:50:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: Message-ID: <01ac01c43cf8$338840e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Mark: I've got the code in a couple of other apps where I know outlook will be present. I use the outlook object and it's very flexible. Unfortunately, I won't know that outlook is available on the target machine. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): > > "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and > MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other > third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the > ability to include an attached file. > > A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send > an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here > (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to > Outlook is required." > > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > Dear List: > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to > an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like > it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > DoCmd.SendObject? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 11:59:13 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:59:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: Sorry, I meant only to quote the paragraph in its entirety, not to suggest that you use Outlook. The relevant message being "no...you can't". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Mark: I've got the code in a couple of other apps where I know outlook will be present. I use the outlook object and it's very flexible. Unfortunately, I won't know that outlook is available on the target machine. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): > > "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and > MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other > third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the > ability to include an attached file. > > A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send > an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here > (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to > Outlook is required." > > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > Dear List: > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to > an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like > it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > DoCmd.SendObject? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 12:22:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:22:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky Have a look here: http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 Please let us know if it works for you. /gustav > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's > machine. > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 12:24:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:24:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: Message-ID: <01ea01c43cfc$f0698990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> rats. :) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Sorry, I meant only to quote the paragraph in its entirety, not to suggest > that you use Outlook. The relevant message being "no...you can't". > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > Mark: > > I've got the code in a couple of other apps where I know outlook will be > present. I use the outlook object and it's very flexible. Unfortunately, I > won't know that outlook is available on the target machine. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:19 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > > According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): > > > > "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and > > MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other > > third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the > > ability to include an attached file. > > > > A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send > > an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here > > (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to > > Outlook is required." > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to > > an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like > > it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > > DoCmd.SendObject? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 13:44:32 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:44:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Gustav: Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" and so what shows up in the subject line is: SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Hi Rocky > > Have a look here: > > http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 > > Please let us know if it works for you. > > /gustav > > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's > > machine. > > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue May 18 13:56:30 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question In-Reply-To: <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <1089.24.187.38.171.1084906590.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> sorry for posting excel question, does anyone know how i can fix this so it would post required strings in Column B for the same row ? Oleg Sub CheckFirst4chars() Dim First4 As String Range("A1").EntireRow.Select Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" End If Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 18 13:59:26 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:59:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is great, so if you are processing the the first column, hide the text, show the labels. Thanks so much. I will try asap. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report You have to lay the labels and text boxes on top of one another in a single column. The width is whatever you need it to be in order to fit in your text. In On_Format of the detail section: If me.left < (ColumnWidthInInches * 1440) then 'code to hide all text boxes 'code to show all labels Me.NextRecord = false Else 'code to show all text boxes 'code to hide all labels End if Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report > > > And of course as soon as I sent the message, I remembered "Columns" in the > page setup menu. And that is the solution. Thanks anyway. > Now I just need to only have the labels appear once for each horizontal > section instead of for each record. > > TIA > > bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Report > > > Hello to the group, > > I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail > sections across a > page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... > > or : > > record one record two > record three > something about record one something about record two > something about > record three > something else about record one something else record two > something else > record three > something more record one something more record one > something more record > one > > > record four record five > record six > something about record four something about record five > something about > record six > something more record one > > Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be > welcome. > > bob > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 18 14:01:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:01:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEDE@main2.marlow.com> No, actually, I was asking the AccessD list of what they thought of setting up DatabaseAdvisor forums. Sure used some DBATech keywords, but it was meant for this list. AccessD works great as email (same with OT), but the problem with an email list, versus a forum, is that it is harder to keep track of a thread. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue May 18 14:01:48 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:01:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question Message-ID: Try this: If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" Activecell.value = "XXXX" Activecell.offset(0,-1) ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" Activecell.value = "YYYY" Activecell.offset(0,-1) End If Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent by: To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question 05/18/2004 01:56 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" sorry for posting excel question, does anyone know how i can fix this so it would post required strings in Column B for the same row ? Oleg Sub CheckFirst4chars() Dim First4 As String Range("A1").EntireRow.Select Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" End If Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 14:07:14 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:07:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <14646399549.20040518210714@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky That's what I thought, I'm having problems with this code as well. Maybe it represents wishful thinking only? /gustav > Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: > ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > and so what shows up in the subject line is: > SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? > I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. > Regards, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email >> Hi Rocky >> >> Have a look here: >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 >> >> Please let us know if it works for you. >> >> /gustav >> >> > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe >> user's >> > machine. >> >> > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue May 18 14:10:55 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1114.24.187.38.171.1084907455.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> ok, i will meanwhile i wrote this lovely piece, which froze my excel :--) Sub CheckFirst4chars() Dim First4 As String Dim f, n Range("A1").EntireRow.Select Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " f = ActiveCell.Row n = "B" & f If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then Range(n).Value = "XXXX" ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then Range(n).Value = "YYYY" End If Loop End Sub > > Try this: > > If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then > Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" > Activecell.value = "XXXX" > Activecell.offset(0,-1) > ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then > Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" > Activecell.value = "YYYY" > Activecell.offset(0,-1) > > End If > > > > Oleg_123 at xuppa.com > > Sent by: > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > accessd-bounces at databasea cc: > > dvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question > > > > 05/18/2004 01:56 PM > > Please respond to "Access > > Developers > discussion and > > problem solving" > > > > > > > > > sorry for posting excel question, > does anyone know how i can fix this so it would post required strings in > Column B for the same row ? > Oleg > > Sub CheckFirst4chars() > Dim First4 As String > Range("A1").EntireRow.Select > Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " > If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then > 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" > ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then > 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" > End If > Loop > End Sub > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: > www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 14:13:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:13:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: Just off the top of my head I see that the other fields are of the form "&Subject=", where there is a preceding "&"...I don't see that for the Attach part. Perhaps it should read "&Attach="...what do you think? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Hi Rocky That's what I thought, I'm having problems with this code as well. Maybe it represents wishful thinking only? /gustav > Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: > ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > and so what shows up in the subject line is: > SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? > I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. > Regards, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email >> Hi Rocky >> >> Have a look here: >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 >> >> Please let us know if it works for you. >> >> /gustav >> >> > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe >> user's >> > machine. >> >> > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 17:01:35 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:01:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AB145F.9051.2149917@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 8:44, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Dear List: > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook > them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it > looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > DoCmd.SendObject? > As others have said, yopu can't do it with Docmd.SendObject. That's one of the reasons I wrote MAPISend. "MAPISend is a simple Command Line utility to send messages (and attachments) via any MAPI compliant email system (such as Pegasus Mail). You can use it in batch files or macros/modules in other programs to automate emailing documents. If you run MAPISend without any parameters, it will display a simple help screen. " You can download MAPISend from http://www.lexacorp.com.pg (follow the "Free Software" link). It's an 11KB zip file. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Tue May 18 17:21:04 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:21:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AB145F.9051.2149917@localhost> Message-ID: Rocky, Have you thought about sending your e-mail through SMTP? I threw together a class a few weeks back that uses the OSSMTP.dll, which is free, and avoids all the Outlook security baggage... I mainly use it as a part of my programs Advanced Error System, which sends me every un-expected error in my programs from the users system. You can send multiple attachments, HTML, Etc.... If you want a copy, it yours... PS, you will have to incorporates it's functions in a form, as I just use the class directly, and you will need the user's (or use your own, hard programmed) SMTP server information... Let Me Know! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 18:30:07 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:30:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <40AB145F.9051.2149917@localhost> Message-ID: <030601c43d30$0e826e50$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Thanks. Got it. It's working, too! For one file. Is there a way to attach more than one file? This works: lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S " _ & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT ") but this doesn't: lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S " _ & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT, " _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") Also, it appears to need the full path to find Mapisend.exe and the full path to find the attachment files. Yes? Regards, is ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > On 18 May 2004 at 8:44, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook > > them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it > > looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > > DoCmd.SendObject? > > > > As others have said, yopu can't do it with Docmd.SendObject. That's > one of the reasons I wrote MAPISend. > > "MAPISend is a simple Command Line utility to send messages (and > attachments) via any MAPI compliant email system (such as Pegasus > Mail). You can use it in batch files or macros/modules in other > programs to automate emailing documents. If you run MAPISend without > any parameters, it will display a simple help screen. " > > You can download MAPISend from http://www.lexacorp.com.pg (follow the > "Free Software" link). It's an 11KB zip file. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 18:32:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:32:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: Message-ID: <030c01c43d30$58321be0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Robert: Thanks. I'm going to work on Stuart's MAPISend for the moment. This requirement will be going out to dozens of end users and I won't really have any idea about their configuration. We may even put it in the final product so that we could assemble data from hundreds or thousands of users and do a study. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gracie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Rocky, > Have you thought about sending your e-mail through SMTP? I threw together a > class a few weeks back that uses the OSSMTP.dll, which is free, and avoids > all the Outlook security baggage... I mainly use it as a part of my programs > Advanced Error System, which sends me every un-expected error in my programs > from the users system. You can send multiple attachments, HTML, Etc.... > > If you want a copy, it yours... > > PS, you will have to incorporates it's functions in a form, as I just use > the class directly, and you will need the user's (or use your own, hard > programmed) SMTP server information... > > Let Me Know! > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 18 20:05:26 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEDE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I have had a little experience with setting up some forums and will send you info off-line when I find out where to send it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K No, actually, I was asking the AccessD list of what they thought of setting up DatabaseAdvisor forums. Sure used some DBATech keywords, but it was meant for this list. AccessD works great as email (same with OT), but the problem with an email list, versus a forum, is that it is harder to keep track of a thread. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 20:53:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:53:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <030601c43d30$0e826e50$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AB4ABA.24510.2E8ED2C@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 16:30, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Stuart: > > Thanks. Got it. It's working, too! For one file. > > Is there a way to attach more than one file? > > This works: > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > " _ > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT ") > > but this doesn't: > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > " _ > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT, " _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > Delimit them with semicolons ";" without any leading or trailing spaces. & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT;" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > Also, it appears to need the full path to find Mapisend.exe and the full > path to find the attachment files. Yes? > MAPISend - the full path is required unless it is in the *current* directory when you shell out, or it is your Path (otherwise the Slee command won't find it) Attached Files, yes - the full path is required. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 22:10:06 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:10:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <40AB4ABA.24510.2E8ED2C@localhost> Message-ID: <031f01c43d4e$c95f5cb0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Beautiful. Works like a charm. And what tech support! Did you write this in VB? Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > On 18 May 2004 at 16:30, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Stuart: > > > > Thanks. Got it. It's working, too! For one file. > > > > Is there a way to attach more than one file? > > > > This works: > > > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > > " _ > > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT ") > > > > but this doesn't: > > > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > > " _ > > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT, " _ > > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > > > > Delimit them with semicolons ";" without any leading or trailing spaces. > > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT;" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > > > > Also, it appears to need the full path to find Mapisend.exe and the full > > path to find the attachment files. Yes? > > > > MAPISend - the full path is required unless it is in the *current* > directory when you shell out, or it is your Path (otherwise the Slee > command won't find it) > > Attached Files, yes - the full path is required. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 23:07:33 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:07:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <031f01c43d4e$c95f5cb0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AB6A25.22929.363A86C@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 20:10, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Stuart: > > Beautiful. Works like a charm. And what tech support! Did you write this > in VB? > What, a 15KB executable with no dependencies in VB? ROTFLMAO! It's written in PowerBasic, which incidentally means, I could just as easily build it as a real DLL and avoid having to SHELL. to an executable :-) It is based to a large extent on a set of public domain MAPI declarations and wrapper functions written by Don Dickinson. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From KP at sdsonline.net Tue May 18 23:31:39 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:31:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Help - urgent query field length problem Message-ID: <000801c43d5a$2e63a610$6501a8c0@user> Hi everybody - This is driving me crazy - any reasons? I have a query field: B1Name: [Forms]![frmClientContractDetails]![FrmClientContractDetailsB1Subform].[Form]![BorrowerName] I thought that the maximum length of an expression such as this would be 255, but when my field [borrowername] contains more than 127 characters my query crashes with error: 'Invalid Argument'. TIA Kath From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 19 00:34:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 01:34:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AB6A25.22929.363A86C@localhost> Message-ID: I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email On 18 May 2004 at 20:10, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Stuart: > > Beautiful. Works like a charm. And what tech support! Did you write this > in VB? > What, a 15KB executable with no dependencies in VB? ROTFLMAO! It's written in PowerBasic, which incidentally means, I could just as easily build it as a real DLL and avoid having to SHELL. to an executable :-) It is based to a large extent on a set of public domain MAPI declarations and wrapper functions written by Don Dickinson. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 01:17:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:17:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: References: <40AB6A25.22929.363A86C@localhost> Message-ID: <40AB88B0.2238.3DAF810@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 1:34, John W. Colby wrote: > I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? > Working on a couple of other things at the moment. Give me 'til tomorrow morning (PNG time that is) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 19 01:38:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:38:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1852043738.20040519083841@cactus.dk> Hi Mark I think you are right ... but no luck. /gustav > Just off the top of my head I see that the other fields are of the form > "&Subject=", where there is a preceding "&"...I don't see that for the > Attach part. Perhaps it should read "&Attach="...what do you think? > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Hi Rocky > That's what I thought, I'm having problems with this code as well. > Maybe it represents wishful thinking only? > /gustav >> Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is >> coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: >> ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic >> Insomnia2.TXT" >> and so what shows up in the subject line is: >> SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" >> Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. >> I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? >> I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 19 06:15:24 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:15:24 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <24487335.1084965324845.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it?s not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed May 19 08:01:28 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:01:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0EC@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & Access terminates. I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 box. Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( Regards Chris Foote - UK From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Wed May 19 08:30:43 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:30:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: Chris, Have you checked to make sure that something hasn't gotten corrupted in there? Try Repair/compact, JetComp, importing into another mdb, maybe even recreating the report and subreports, and see if that doesn't help. HTH, Steve -----Chris Foote's Original Message----- One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & Access terminates. I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 box. Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( Regards Chris Foote - UK From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed May 19 08:45:34 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:45:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: Does it do the same thing on another computer? Knowing that could tell us if it's the database or system or Access installation that is the problem. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Foote, Chris" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Subject: [AccessD] Application Error >Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:01:28 +0100 > > >One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. > >She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. > >The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button >she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" >referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & >Access >terminates. > >I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility >that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. > >It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 >box. > >Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? > >My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up >having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( > >Regards >Chris Foote - UK From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 08:49:14 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:49:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AB88B0.2238.3DAF810@localhost> References: Message-ID: <40ABF27A.7150.578331C@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 16:17, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > On 19 May 2004 at 1:34, John W. Colby wrote: > > > I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? > > > > Working on a couple of other things at the moment. Give me 'til > tomorrow morning (PNG time that is) > It may take a bit longer than I thought to convert MAPISend to a DLL. Calling MAPISend .exe, it pokes everything into the mail client in about half a second. Calling exactly the same thing as a DLL, it takes nearly a minute. I can watch the Addresses, Subject, Body and Attachment info being inserted into a new message with an interval of 10 seconds or so between each field. (At the same time, the Access app that I am calling the DLL from is showing 99% CPU usage in the task manager) Damned if I can see why. Ultimately, all of the info is gathered and passed in one structure in a single call to the MapiSendMail function in MAPI32.DLL. I can't see why it would then take MAPI32.DLL quite a few seconds to poke each field at the client. Any API gurus got any ideas? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed May 19 09:02:59 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:02:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0F0@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Hi Steve! We've tried Repair/Compact several times. Updated Jet from SR2-SP2 to SR2-SP3. My colleague is trying her db on a different box as I write this. Thanks for you help. Chris Foote - UK > -----Original Message----- > From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:31 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Application Error > > > Chris, > > Have you checked to make sure that something hasn't gotten > corrupted in > there? Try Repair/compact, JetComp, importing into another mdb, maybe > even recreating the report and subreports, and see if that > doesn't help. > > HTH, > > Steve From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed May 19 09:03:50 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:03:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0F1@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Cheers Gary! Just trying that now. Regards Chris Foote - UK > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:46 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Application Error > > > Does it do the same thing on another computer? Knowing that > could tell us > if it's the database or system or Access installation that is > the problem. > > Gary Kjos From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 09:13:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:13:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEE5@main2.marlow.com> drewshome at wolfwares.com Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Hi Drew: I have had a little experience with setting up some forums and will send you info off-line when I find out where to send it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K No, actually, I was asking the AccessD list of what they thought of setting up DatabaseAdvisor forums. Sure used some DBATech keywords, but it was meant for this list. AccessD works great as email (same with OT), but the problem with an email list, versus a forum, is that it is harder to keep track of a thread. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 09:15:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:15:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEE6@main2.marlow.com> Make sure it's not a printer error either. Try printing it to different printers. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Foote, Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Application Error One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & Access terminates. I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 box. Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( Regards Chris Foote - UK -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed May 19 10:00:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <05f201c43db2$1336fba0$6601a8c0@rock> Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed May 19 10:05:58 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <006f01c43db2$cac4e1b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 19 10:07:03 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:07:03 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <20928148.1084979223807.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> not sure if you can do it in a selected statement, if you can I would be very interets in seeing it. I ended up creating a table with the three fields in and writing a function using TableDef properties to update the table Message date : May 19 2004, 04:03 PM >From : "Arthur Fuller" To : "AccessD" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 10:12:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:12:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEA@main2.marlow.com> As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a little more. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed May 19 10:17:21 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:17:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001101c43db4$61cfc330$9111758f@aine> Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the > 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, > so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a > little more. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column > name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at > the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as > a table if possible. > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 10:20:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:20:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEB@main2.marlow.com> Rocky, I've seen this kind of discussion a lot on the list. About comparing dates with different regional settings. I've also brought up this solution a few times, but I think people tend to overlook it. Date formats are just the 'human' method of identifying dates. To Access, a date is a Double Number. The whole part is the date, and the decimal part is the time. So if you are trying to compare two dates, it really doesn't matter what the regional settings are, it's a numerical value compare. Now, from your post I might assume that you are encrypting a string representation of your 'date'. If that is the case, the easiest method to force a string back to a date, AND be able to ignore the regional settings is the DateSerial function. (There is also a TimeSerial function). The DateSerial asks for a year, month, and day argument. The order of the arguments are not affected by regional settings, it's set in VB. So, just return a date variable using DateSerial feeding it the values from your 'date string', and you now have an actual 'date' to compare with Date(). No muss, no fuss, and no API's. (Not saying anything against API's, in fact I use API's all the time, just don't see the big deal about dates, because DateSerial is one very handy date function.) Of course, dates and the functions involved can be a little confusing, in fact, Date(), Time() and Now() are the only functions I know of off hand, that not only return a value, but can also be put on the other side of =, to SET their value. Go figure. It's no wonder that Dates and Times are a complex subject. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:06 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed May 19 10:20:55 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:20:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3088A18B@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB533@ADGSERVER> Wouldn't that be 'That would create a field called SomeOtherName' instead of 'That would create a field called MyField'? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a little more. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 10:29:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:29:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in the system format. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 10:39:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:39:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 10:41:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:41:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEC@main2.marlow.com> Yeah, wrote that before my first cup of coffee. Sorry. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Wouldn't that be 'That would create a field called SomeOtherName' instead of 'That would create a field called MyField'? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a little more. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 10:41:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 19 10:43:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:43:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). /gustav > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in > the system format. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Dear List: > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > but can't seem to find what I want. > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > cases as I find more short date formats. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 10:44:46 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:44:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 19 10:52:36 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:52:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <31794206.1084981956253.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed May 19 11:01:26 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:01:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Electronic Invoice Tool according to EC directive 2001/115/EG Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8EB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Hi A customer asks me to generate electronic invoices from an invoicing app I wrote several years ago. As you know Electronic Invoices in an EC country need to be according the EC directive 2001/115/EG. To keep a long story short, this means that a invoice needs to be authenticated AND content verification before sending. The format is of no importance but it has to be a common format. So I wonder if there exist already tools for Access/VBA to do this. Can Acrobat do this? Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 11:12:58 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:12:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 11:50:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:50:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF0@main2.marlow.com> Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 12:00:58 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:00:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 12:15:22 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:15:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:21:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:21:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 12:37:34 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:37:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of unbound controls and continuous forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 12:42:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:42:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:45:35 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:45:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of unbound controls and continuous forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 12:43:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:43:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: Nope. I avoid them. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:48:14 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:48:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another suggestion that may work? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:54:30 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:54:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Charlotte, Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of unbound controls and continuous forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed May 19 12:55:34 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:55:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 19 13:03:50 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:03:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00af01c43dcb$a5e091f0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Effective immediately John I believe. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:56 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I > want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I > was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also > signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu May 6 21:15:04 2004 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:15:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. References: Message-ID: <409AF127.BABE53FC@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it > changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color > code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a > continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox > changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not > just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 19 13:11:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:11:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00b001c43dcc$c3c24cd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I use a method I got from one of the sites (can't remember which) which highlights the current row (colours the background) as you move up and down a continuous form in A97. If that's what you're after I can email it to you. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:48 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box > on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to > be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual > box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another > suggestion that may work? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] > On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed May 19 13:11:31 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:11:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: Hi John, It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 13:12:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: <409AF127.BABE53FC@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <20040519181248.YELW1706.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've never tried this way Scott -- there is a more complex way to get the job done -- but if this works, great! ;) Susan H. Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when > it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the > color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to > yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is > the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each > record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 13:17:07 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:17:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Andy, Sure why not. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:12 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I use a method I got from one of the sites (can't remember which) which highlights the current row (colours the background) as you move up and down a continuous form in A97. If that's what you're after I can email it to you. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:48 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box > on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to > be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual > box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another > suggestion that may work? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] > On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 13:17:46 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:17:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Thanks, I'll give it a whirl or some form of a twist. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it > changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color > code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a > continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox > changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not > just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed May 19 13:18:06 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:18:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: The OT list must have changed a bit then, because I don't think there was ever a period of inactivity, while I was on it...then again, that might just say something about me! I've got a question regarding "rent to own" real estate, and I am having trouble finding any quality info on it, so I figured I could definitlely find somebody on the OT list. I don't know if anyone realized what a plethora of knowledge we have assembled on our lists, but I don't think that I haven't gotten help or support for anything I have ever asked. Thanks. I'll check again later. John >>> andy at minstersystems.co.uk 5/19/2004 2:03:50 PM >>> Effective immediately John I believe. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:56 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I > want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I > was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also > signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 13:24:14 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:24:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040519182412.YKNP1706.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You forgot to slip Rabbit a $20 didn't ya? ;) Susan H. The OT list must have changed a bit then, because I don't think there was ever a period of inactivity, while I was on it...then again, that might just say something about me! I've got a question regarding "rent to own" real estate, and I am having trouble finding any quality info on it, so I figured I could definitlely find somebody on the OT list. I don't know if anyone realized what a plethora of knowledge we have assembled on our lists, but I don't think that I haven't gotten help or support for anything I have ever asked. Thanks. I'll check again later. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 13:25:20 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:25:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Thank you Charlotte, but...now I'm confused. Can you tell me why these two functions do not behave in the same manner? The first is my original (doesn't work), the second (does work) was converted from the macro you suggested (which also worked, btw). Mark '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/19/2004 1:07:25 PM Function fCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo Err_fCloseSwbd DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" Exit_fCloseSwbd: Exit Function Err_fCloseSwbd: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Form_Switchboard.fCloseSwbd" Resume Exit_fCloseSwbd Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function '------------------------------------------------------------ ' macCloseSwbd '------------------------------------------------------------ Function macCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo macCloseSwbd_Err DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" End 'In the macro, I added a "StopAllMacros" line. macCloseSwbd_Exit: Exit Function macCloseSwbd_Err: MsgBox Error$ Resume macCloseSwbd_Exit End Function -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 13:29:19 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:29:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: This works for a textbox. I need it to work for a checkbox. If the check box wouldn't disappear, I would put the textbox behind the checkbox and intercepts keyboard command to change the checkbox control. Just thinking out loud...it might trigger some other ideas. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it > changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color > code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a > continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox > changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not > just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 13:33:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:33:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF3@main2.marlow.com> Oh, you want to close the form with a command button 'generated' from the switchboard itself? I think Charlotte and I both were assuming you were just going to put your own button on there. Okay, then yes, build a function, but use: DoCmd.Close acForm,"Switchboard" Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 19 13:34:57 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:34:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002301c43dcf$fc5351e0$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Scott, Take a look at http://www.mvps.org/access/forms/frm0047.htm. Don't know if this is what your looking for but it gives a way to highlight the record with focus in a continuous form. I have used it and it works well. Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed May 19 13:36:27 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:36:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: What if its a chocolate $20?! >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 5/19/2004 2:24:14 PM >>> You forgot to slip Rabbit a $20 didn't ya? ;) Susan H. The OT list must have changed a bit then, because I don't think there was ever a period of inactivity, while I was on it...then again, that might just say something about me! I've got a question regarding "rent to own" real estate, and I am having trouble finding any quality info on it, so I figured I could definitlely find somebody on the OT list. I don't know if anyone realized what a plethora of knowledge we have assembled on our lists, but I don't think that I haven't gotten help or support for anything I have ever asked. Thanks. I'll check again later. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 19 14:00:45 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:00:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: <002301c43dcf$fc5351e0$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Message-ID: <00b201c43dd3$985e09b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Scott That is what I was looking for. I must have simplified it though (or used a simplified version). Firstly use OnCurrent to put the current record's unique id into an unbound control in the form header, then the IIF test on the control in the detail is just =IIf(me!ctlInHeader=me!ctlInCurrentLine,"????????????",Null) Which will only be true for one record. This causes that record to display the solid bar and the rest Null. The GetLineNumber function is far more complex than is necessary. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: 19 May 2004 19:35 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > Scott, > > Take a look at http://www.mvps.org/access/forms/frm0047.htm. > Don't know if this is what your looking for but it gives a > way to highlight the record with focus in a continuous form. > I have used it and it works well. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 14:25:38 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:25:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Thanks Andy. I was looking at the GetLineNumber code and am developing exactly the same thing you are suggesting. I looked at that code and said "That's too much work. A couple lines of code should do." So far I'm at 1 line of code. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Scott That is what I was looking for. I must have simplified it though (or used a simplified version). Firstly use OnCurrent to put the current record's unique id into an unbound control in the form header, then the IIF test on the control in the detail is just =IIf(me!ctlInHeader=me!ctlInCurrentLine,"????????????",Null) Which will only be true for one record. This causes that record to display the solid bar and the rest Null. The GetLineNumber function is far more complex than is necessary. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: 19 May 2004 19:35 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > Scott, > > Take a look at http://www.mvps.org/access/forms/frm0047.htm. > Don't know if this is what your looking for but it gives a > way to highlight the record with focus in a continuous form. > I have used it and it works well. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 19 15:00:38 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:00:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E809E1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I wrote a fairly easy to series of class modules that let you create menus dynamically. Drop me a line off-list and I'll send you a demo if you like (jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org). Off-line requests only please. Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 15:01:01 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:01:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Is that actually what you had in your original function? I thought you had something like "Form_Switchboard", which wouldn't work because that refers to the module, not the form. I don't see any reason for the Resume 0 in your error handler, since it should never execute anyhow, and Resume 0 turns off error handling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Thank you Charlotte, but...now I'm confused. Can you tell me why these two functions do not behave in the same manner? The first is my original (doesn't work), the second (does work) was converted from the macro you suggested (which also worked, btw). Mark '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/19/2004 1:07:25 PM Function fCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo Err_fCloseSwbd DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" Exit_fCloseSwbd: Exit Function Err_fCloseSwbd: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Form_Switchboard.fCloseSwbd" Resume Exit_fCloseSwbd Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function '------------------------------------------------------------ ' macCloseSwbd '------------------------------------------------------------ Function macCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo macCloseSwbd_Err DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" End 'In the macro, I added a "StopAllMacros" line. macCloseSwbd_Exit: Exit Function macCloseSwbd_Err: MsgBox Error$ Resume macCloseSwbd_Exit End Function -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 15:03:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:03:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: Menus or menus on forms? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form I wrote a fairly easy to series of class modules that let you create menus dynamically. Drop me a line off-list and I'll send you a demo if you like (jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org). Off-line requests only please. Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 15:11:43 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:11:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: I did have it listed that way until Drew's comment regarding calling from a module. The current module status is as listed below, where one function works, the other doesn't. The "Resume 0" is a line inserted by John Colby's error handler add-in. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Is that actually what you had in your original function? I thought you had something like "Form_Switchboard", which wouldn't work because that refers to the module, not the form. I don't see any reason for the Resume 0 in your error handler, since it should never execute anyhow, and Resume 0 turns off error handling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Thank you Charlotte, but...now I'm confused. Can you tell me why these two functions do not behave in the same manner? The first is my original (doesn't work), the second (does work) was converted from the macro you suggested (which also worked, btw). Mark '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/19/2004 1:07:25 PM Function fCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo Err_fCloseSwbd DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" Exit_fCloseSwbd: Exit Function Err_fCloseSwbd: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Form_Switchboard.fCloseSwbd" Resume Exit_fCloseSwbd Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function '------------------------------------------------------------ ' macCloseSwbd '------------------------------------------------------------ Function macCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo macCloseSwbd_Err DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" End 'In the macro, I added a "StopAllMacros" line. macCloseSwbd_Exit: Exit Function macCloseSwbd_Err: MsgBox Error$ Resume macCloseSwbd_Exit End Function -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed May 19 15:24:29 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:24:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Message-ID: Hello All, What methods can you use to connect to an A2K mdb with ASP? Rumor is that I have to use an ODBC connection.. Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 19 15:39:24 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:39:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5EE@TAPPEEXCH01> Bwaaa?! Access has had this built-in this functionality since the very early days (A2 at least). Unfortunately you need to use macros to do it. Do a search AddMenu in online Help, and it should point you in the right direction. Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 15:55:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:55:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF6@main2.marlow.com> ADO. Use the Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0 provider with ADO. (Works with A2k and below db's (I've connected to AXP databases too, but I don't know if they were saved in true XP format.) You can use DAO too, but DAO may not be available on all webservers. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Hello All, What methods can you use to connect to an A2K mdb with ASP? Rumor is that I have to use an ODBC connection.. Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed May 19 16:06:05 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:06:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D37B@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA From dc8 at btinternet.com Wed May 19 15:26:18 2004 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:26:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab Message-ID: Hi List, I have a batch of Access reports which are currently created and saved as RTF files. I now need to export the reports to Excel but have run into a major problem. At the very top level all fields have data to return and the code I have written outputs the whole crosstab to Excel, copies the values into another sheet which is formatted to look like the original reports. I force null entries in the query to return a 0 with IIf(Count([FIELD]) Is Null,0,Count([FIELD])) so that the Excel report shows a value. However, as the data is run against other areas, there are gaps in the data so I cannot use the whole crosstab export approach. I will never know which items may be present as the data changes on a weekly basis. Example AreaTotals type1a data data data data AreaTotals type1b data data data data AreaTotals type2a data data data data AreaTotals type2b data data data data AreaTotals type3a data data data data AreaTotals type3b data data data data Area1 type1a data data data data Area1 type2a data data data data Area1 type3b data data data data Area2 type2a data data data data Area2 type2b data data data data Is there any way to make the crosstab output all values even if there is no data to return ? So the third example above would look like this Area2 type1a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Area2 type1b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Area2 type2a data data data data <<<< only data available Area2 type2b data data data data <<<< only data available Area2 type3a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Area2 type3b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Thanks in advance for any pointers. Chris Swann From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 16:15:25 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:15:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. References: Message-ID: <002301c43de6$670c2c80$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> www.lebans.com has an excellent sample A97 mdb for highlighting rows in continuous forms. William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > Andy, > > Sure why not. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:12 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I use a method I got from one of the sites (can't remember which) which > highlights the current row (colours the background) as you move up and down > a continuous form in A97. If that's what you're after I can email it to you. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Scott Marcus > > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:48 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > > continuous form. > > > > > > What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box > > on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to > > be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual > > box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another > > suggestion that may work? > > > > Scott Marcus > > TSS Technologies, Inc. > > marcus at tsstech.com > > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] > On Behalf Of > > Scott Marcus > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > > continuous form. > > > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > > edited). Any takers? > > > > Scott Marcus > > TSS Technologies, Inc. > > marcus at tsstech.com > > (513) 772-7000 > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 16:28:13 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:28:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat References: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D37B@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: <003b01c43de8$30fcaff0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...a couple of notes on AXP bloat ...there is a bug in the AXP file format that just bloats a db and compact repair doesn't fix it ...you either work with the A2K file format or you routinely create a new AXP db and import the old code into it ...a royal pita if there ever was one :( ...I do virtually the same thing you describe ...my approach has been to use a separate mdb to do all the importing and data manipulation and only then to update the main db with the extracted data ...then I clear every table in the import mdb and compact it before putting it back into wait state for another import ...this works pretty well for me using A2K formatted mdbs in AXP. ...hth William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat > Hello, All > > I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the > appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are > detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - > either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type > of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp > table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and > appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table > is then purged and the cycle is repeated. > > It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock > capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to > run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by > this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and > its size came down to about 55 meg. > > I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm > interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which > ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it > via automation once it appears in my db. > > Running Access XP on Win2k. > > Thanks! > > Don McGillivray > Sprint Mailing Services > Rancho Cordova, CA > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 16:48:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:48:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF7@main2.marlow.com> Well, from what you describe, your main bloat factor are those temp tables. When you delete data within a database, the space is not reused. So if you import 10 megs, then work with it, then delete it, and import another 10 megs, the first 10 megs is still there. Another issue of bloat is modifying data. It can have a similar affect to deleting data, but probably not as bad. The first thing I would look into doing, to make an immediate change to the size increase, is to not put the temp tables in the 'live' database. Instead, put the temp table in a blank .mdb. You can link the temp table to the blank db, and then when you're done with the data in that table, delete the .mdb, and copy a 'new' blank version into it's place. If the 'live' db isn't using it, it should care if the 'temp' database is replaced. You could also get away with not even linking the 'temp' database, by just writing you're queries to use tables in another db (part of the FROM statement). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:06 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed May 19 17:27:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:27:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> OK. I solved it but it's a kludge and I don't like it. Turns out that the problem was not mm/dd/yy vs. dd/mm/yy. It was either of those vs. yyyy-mm-dd, which is the same in either UK or American English setting. In Taiwan they use the American date format but this particular machine's short date format was set to yyyy-mm-dd. So. I changed 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") Then gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) to 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy; check that date format is not yyyymmdd If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") And Val(DatePart("yyyy", Date)) <> Val(Left(Date, 4)) Then gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) and it works. But it doesn't seem clean. Getting the short date format via API, I suppose, would be better. Same result but better because I anticipate that there will be sometime a fourth date format. Thanks to all for help, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky > > If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that > and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little > puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can > convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). > > /gustav > > > > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having > > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in > > the system format. > > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Dear List: > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > but can't seem to find what I want. > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > > cases as I find more short date formats. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed May 19 17:30:01 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:30:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D44F@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> So, you're saying that when I import 10 megs and purge it and then import another 10 megs the result is as if I had imported 20 megs? Yikes! That would certainly explain things. I suspected that the temp tables were the culprit and was considering something like the approach you suggest. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Well, from what you describe, your main bloat factor are those temp tables. When you delete data within a database, the space is not reused. So if you import 10 megs, then work with it, then delete it, and import another 10 megs, the first 10 megs is still there. Another issue of bloat is modifying data. It can have a similar affect to deleting data, but probably not as bad. The first thing I would look into doing, to make an immediate change to the size increase, is to not put the temp tables in the 'live' database. Instead, put the temp table in a blank .mdb. You can link the temp table to the blank db, and then when you're done with the data in that table, delete the .mdb, and copy a 'new' blank version into it's place. If the 'live' db isn't using it, it should care if the 'temp' database is replaced. You could also get away with not even linking the 'temp' database, by just writing you're queries to use tables in another db (part of the FROM statement). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:06 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed May 19 17:32:55 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:32:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D454@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Thanks, William I'm actually using the A2K file format in AXP, so the AXP bug isn't an issue here. I will take your advice and move the temp tables to a separate BE, though. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat ...a couple of notes on AXP bloat ...there is a bug in the AXP file format that just bloats a db and compact repair doesn't fix it ...you either work with the A2K file format or you routinely create a new AXP db and import the old code into it ...a royal pita if there ever was one :( ...I do virtually the same thing you describe ...my approach has been to use a separate mdb to do all the importing and data manipulation and only then to update the main db with the extracted data ...then I clear every table in the import mdb and compact it before putting it back into wait state for another import ...this works pretty well for me using A2K formatted mdbs in AXP. ...hth William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat > Hello, All > > I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the > appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are > detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - > either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type > of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp > table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and > appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table > is then purged and the cycle is repeated. > > It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock > capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to > run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by > this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and > its size came down to about 55 meg. > > I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm > interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which > ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it > via automation once it appears in my db. > > Running Access XP on Win2k. > > Thanks! > > Don McGillivray > Sprint Mailing Services > Rancho Cordova, CA > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 19 17:54:12 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:54:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c43df4$34466640$8500a8c0@CX615377a> You use ADO and a connection string something like: oConn.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ "Data Source=c:\somepath\myDb.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & _ "Password=" Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Hello All, What methods can you use to connect to an A2K mdb with ASP? Rumor is that I have to use an ODBC connection.. Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeR Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 19:00:01 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:00:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: Unless I completely misunderstood the original question, Brett, it was about VB style menus *on* forms, not menubars. And Access 2 was the LAST version that needed macros to create menus. After that VBA handled it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Bwaaa?! Access has had this built-in this functionality since the very early days (A2 at least). Unfortunately you need to use macros to do it. Do a search AddMenu in online Help, and it should point you in the right direction. Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 19:11:22 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:11:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AC844A.16840.50EF1D@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 13:00, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the > point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated > switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are > finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the > RunCode option in some manner... > > > As suggested, use the Docmd.Close - but if the code is not in the form module, you need to specify what to close: DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 19:47:33 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:47:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AC8CC5.17394.720C2A@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 21:26, Chris Swann wrote: > > However, as the data is run against other areas, there are gaps in the data > so I cannot use the whole crosstab export approach. I will never know which > items may be present as the data changes on a weekly basis. > > Is there any way to make the crosstab output all values even if there is no > data to return ? So the third example above would look like this > > Area2 type1a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > Area2 type1b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > Area2 type2a data data data data <<<< only data available > Area2 type2b data data data data <<<< only data available > Area2 type3a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > Area2 type3b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > You need a couple of tables which contain lists of all Areas and all Types. You use this to build a list of all the possible Area/Type combinations and left join your data to this "superlist", Something like: SELECT AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType, Sum(tValues.data1) AS SumOfdata1, Sum(tValues.data2) AS SumOfdata2, Sum(tValues.data3) AS SumOfdata3, Sum(tValues.data4) AS SumOfdata4 FROM (SELECT tAreas.AreaName, tTypes.RecordType FROM tAreas, tTypes) as AreaTypes LEFT JOIN tValues ON (AreaTypes.RecordType = tValues.RecordType) AND (AreaTypes.AreaName = tValues.Location) GROUP BY AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 20:04:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:04:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <006f01c43db2$cac4e1b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate any date. if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... Just pick your required result format. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 19 23:52:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:52:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Message-ID: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 20 00:18:15 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:18:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Hi Darren: Just ran your piece of code (cut and paste), on my version of Win98 SR2, Access2K and it work just fine (...ran it in immediate mode and the following was the result 'C:\APPL\FigaroProducts\Skins\\'). So there must be something else that is causing your problem. Maybe your versions of Access have to patched/updated or maybe it is something you have in the string 'strSelectedSkin' (mine was of course empty).(?) It also works with Access2002 and 2003 on the same machine. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:52 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 02:15:22 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:15:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000001c43e3a$371fe940$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hi Darren Sounds to me like a references issue. The failure of Left() and Len() functions is a classic symptom of References. Check for missing refs - if none, try unticking, saving, reticking and saving. I feel sure the problem's in there somewhere. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 20 May 2004 05:52 > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine > > > Hello all > I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win > XP or Win 2000 boxes the > following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and > WIN2000 and > WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 > In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office > 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on > the Win 98 machines > > Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in > WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, > Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & > "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" > > But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place > of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = > "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" > > Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the > Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS > > Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a > search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the > footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and > .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. > But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app > and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone > have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN > 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be > fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 20 07:02:18 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:02:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should re-sub? >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> Hi John, It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 07:04:57 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:04:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Darren, What you describe is most likely a problem with references and/or the environment on those specific machines. Open a module in design view, click tools/references, and see if any are MISSING or BROKEN. If so you'll need to figure out how and why. If not, check any unchecked reference. Close the MDB and Access, then reopen and uncheck the reference you just checked. Then do a compile. Should get no errors. Now see if the code works as it should. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:52 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 07:11:13 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:11:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Darren, I didn't read far enough down in your original post. I'd still double check the reference stuff, but I don't think that will be the problem from the sound of what you said. Instead, look more towards the Access install itself. Make sure your up to date on service packs; Office, JET, and MDAC. Also do a quick check for disk errors and sufficient disk space. There is nothing really in Access per say that is OS specific. Code that runs under one should run under another. Problems under one OS and not another is some type of an environment problem either in .DLLs installed or registry entries. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:52 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 20 07:14:08 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:14:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect References: Message-ID: <000d01c43e63$f393ca50$9111758f@aine> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu May 20 07:24:05 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:24:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3088A3F6@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB53B@ADGSERVER> That's odd. I subbed to the OT list yesterday afternoon and I had 17 messages in my inbox this morning. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should re-sub? >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> Hi John, It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 20 04:24:14 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:24:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) Message-ID: <28928889.1085045054572.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that?s as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I?m doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven?t a clue what this could be ..I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 07:38:32 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 05:38:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: Message-ID: <003501c43e67$5ce19de0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: Because it's too simple and too obvious? :) I'll test that out. Thanks. BTW, in response to my own request to change the captions on the command buttons on message boxes - which apparently cannot be done - I just got a screen shot of a Yes/No message box from Taiwan, and the Chinese character is displayed on the command button followed by Y ( or N in parens and underscored. I'd like to see the keyboard they're using to enter these pictograms. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 20 07:43:28 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:43:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Thu May 20 07:51:12 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:51:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BE0@mail2.wrsystems.com> Just a quick reply, I've received good help from here. http://asp-help.com/ -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 20 08:16:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:16:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in 9 simple steps. Message-ID: Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Thu May 20 08:13:55 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:13:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: Came to the office with 36 emails on the OT list. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu May 20 08:47:35 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:47:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3088A441@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB53C@ADGSERVER> But I came in at 7 EDT - LOL. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Came to the office with 36 emails on the OT list. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu May 20 09:51:27 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:51:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, That's too bad! You got a very warm welcome over on the Visio list. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Thu May 20 09:51:53 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:51:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BE3@mail2.wrsystems.com> I'm not sure what this line does, . When I use the include statement, I use it with a file and the path to that file. For instance, -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 20 10:11:02 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:11:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: For my departmental website I used "includes" to build the frame around my content area. A corporate top banner area, my top banner area, right-side column, bottom banner area, and left side menu column. They are all separate .htm or .stm files. I can send you an example if you like. ____________ ____________ ____________ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------ ____________ Mark -----Original Message----- From: ranthony at wrsystems.com [mailto:ranthony at wrsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:52 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) I'm not sure what this line does, . When I use the include statement, I use it with a file and the path to that file. For instance, -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 10:23:10 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: Message-ID: <01e201c43e7e$5c7cf130$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 20 10:32:57 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect - Question Message-ID: Since the AccessD and OT originate from the same place, and I am receiving my AccessD mail, then my OT or Visio would probably not be being blocked, correct? The only thing I can think of at my end is our spamming software, which is relatively new. But, like I said, the AccessD gets through. Our Email admin said that if I give her an address, she can put in an excception, but if I am not mistaken, it is the same address as AccessD. I guess I don't really NEED to be a member of these lists, so I'll give it today and then I'll just unsub instead of bothering y'all. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 10:38:45 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:38:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect -Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c43e80$894ce330$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> John Don't unsub yet. I'm sure Bryan, our list master, will check if you're subbed ok, but he's a lot on his plate and hasn't been around today. Give him chance to see. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: 20 May 2004 16:33 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > -Question > > > Since the AccessD and OT originate from the same place, and I > am receiving my AccessD mail, then my OT or Visio would > probably not be being blocked, correct? > > The only thing I can think of at my end is our spamming > software, which is relatively new. But, like I said, the > AccessD gets through. Our Email admin said that if I give her > an address, she can put in an excception, but if I am not > mistaken, it is the same address as AccessD. > > I guess I don't really NEED to be a member of these lists, so > I'll give it today and then I'll just unsub instead of > bothering y'all. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 10:39:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:39:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFA@main2.marlow.com> Yep, Access will not 'reuse' space until it is compacted. So if you are using a massive amount of temp tables, that is going to bloat your database really fast. a temp table consisting of a few k just won't be as noticable, unless done continuously around the clock. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat So, you're saying that when I import 10 megs and purge it and then import another 10 megs the result is as if I had imported 20 megs? Yikes! That would certainly explain things. I suspected that the temp tables were the culprit and was considering something like the approach you suggest. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Well, from what you describe, your main bloat factor are those temp tables. When you delete data within a database, the space is not reused. So if you import 10 megs, then work with it, then delete it, and import another 10 megs, the first 10 megs is still there. Another issue of bloat is modifying data. It can have a similar affect to deleting data, but probably not as bad. The first thing I would look into doing, to make an immediate change to the size increase, is to not put the temp tables in the 'live' database. Instead, put the temp table in a blank .mdb. You can link the temp table to the blank db, and then when you're done with the data in that table, delete the .mdb, and copy a 'new' blank version into it's place. If the 'live' db isn't using it, it should care if the 'temp' database is replaced. You could also get away with not even linking the 'temp' database, by just writing you're queries to use tables in another db (part of the FROM statement). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:06 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Thu May 20 10:46:37 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:46:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect - Question Message-ID: John, The OT address on the OT mail I receive is: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com' I am getting OT mail, so maybe it is something your e-mail admin can resolve.... HTH, Steve -----John Clark's Original Message----- Since the AccessD and OT originate from the same place, and I am receiving my AccessD mail, then my OT or Visio would probably not be being blocked, correct? The only thing I can think of at my end is our spamming software, which is relatively new. But, like I said, the AccessD gets through. Our Email admin said that if I give her an address, she can put in an excception, but if I am not mistaken, it is the same address as AccessD. I guess I don't really NEED to be a member of these lists, so I'll give it today and then I'll just unsub instead of bothering y'all. -- From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 10:49:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:49:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFB@main2.marlow.com> Paul, I replied to a similar email you sent on Friday. You are trying to do client side effects with ASP. So I am not cluttering the list, look back through the subject 'RE: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function' for my reply, if you can't find it, let me know, and I'll send it off list again. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> Choose.... <% Do Until rsOffice.EOF=True %> <% =rsOffice.Fields("OfficeName").Value %> <% rsOffice.MoveNext Loop %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 10:53:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to the format that you want, right? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 11:18:09 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:18:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another problem. So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're trying to lead me? Like: DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) ? Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > the format that you want, right? > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > matter > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > translate > > any date. > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the > US > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > can't > > seem to find what I want. > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases > as > > I find more short date formats. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 20 11:24:47 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:24:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40ACDBCF.2030506@verizon.net> I use blat to attach objects to email, I even put up a small sample database w/ the complete syntax you would use in your program. Of course part of this requires the SMTP server ip along w/ a valid UserID and Password. http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='blat.adp' hope it helps. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/18/2004 8:44 AM: >Dear List: > >I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > >But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 11:32:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:32:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFE@main2.marlow.com> You're getting close. However, you only need to use DateSerial on YOUR date. Because Date Serial returns a Date variable. Actual Date variables are immune to 'date formats'. So, you would do: If DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < Date() Then 'Expired End if Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Drew: The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another problem. So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're trying to lead me? Like: DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) ? Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > the format that you want, right? > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > matter > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > translate > > any date. > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the > US > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > can't > > seem to find what I want. > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases > as > > I find more short date formats. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 11:37:09 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:37:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40ACDBCF.2030506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Francisco: Since I don't know where this program is going to end up (we're doing a lot of remote betas with it) I (and probably the users, who won't be tech savvy) won't know their server ip, User ID, and password. Did you see in the thread where I got the problem worked out with Stuart McLachlan's MAPISend? T&R, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco H Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > I use blat to attach objects to email, I even put up a small sample > database w/ the complete syntax you would use in your program. Of > course part of this requires the SMTP server ip along w/ a valid UserID > and Password. > > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='blat.adp' > > hope it helps. > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/18/2004 8:44 AM: > > >Dear List: > > > >I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > > >But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu May 20 12:34:31 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:34:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9A5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> No it's menus at the Access window level. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Menus or menus on forms? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form I wrote a fairly easy to series of class modules that let you create menus dynamically. Drop me a line off-list and I'll send you a demo if you like (jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org). Off-line requests only please. Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 20 13:28:39 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:28:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Reports References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the last page. Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before the form loads?? Comments?? Martin From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 13:56:37 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:56:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dc8 at btinternet.com Thu May 20 13:56:58 2004 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:56:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab In-Reply-To: <40AC8CC5.17394.720C2A@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Thanks for the pointer. I'll have a play and see where I end up ;-) Chris S > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: 20 May 2004 01:48 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab > > > On 19 May 2004 at 21:26, Chris Swann wrote: > > > > > However, as the data is run against other areas, there are gaps > in the data > > so I cannot use the whole crosstab export approach. I will > never know which > > items may be present as the data changes on a weekly basis. > > > > > Is there any way to make the crosstab output all values even if > there is no > > data to return ? So the third example above would look like this > > > > Area2 type1a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > Area2 type1b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > Area2 type2a data data data data <<<< only data available > > Area2 type2b data data data data <<<< only data available > > Area2 type3a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > Area2 type3b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > > > You need a couple of tables which contain lists of all Areas and all > Types. You use this to build a list of all the possible Area/Type > combinations and left join your data to this "superlist", > > Something like: > > SELECT AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType, Sum(tValues.data1) > AS SumOfdata1, Sum(tValues.data2) AS SumOfdata2, Sum(tValues.data3) > AS SumOfdata3, Sum(tValues.data4) AS SumOfdata4 > FROM > (SELECT tAreas.AreaName, tTypes.RecordType FROM tAreas, tTypes) as > AreaTypes > LEFT JOIN tValues ON (AreaTypes.RecordType = tValues.RecordType) AND > (AreaTypes.AreaName = tValues.Location) > GROUP BY AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 20 13:59:34 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:59:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports In-Reply-To: <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40AD0016.9080503@verizon.net> The time it takes to move from page to page depends in a large part on what you're doing in your report. Somethings I've learned are easier/faster to make TSQL and Queries do instead of the report, counts for instance and totals. For some reason the code that Access uses to come up with these figures are extremly sloooow -- -Francisco Martin Reid wrote On 5/20/2004 11:28 AM: >What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a >report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? > >Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored >procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the >last page. > >Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better >to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before >the form loads?? > > > >Comments?? > > >Martin > > > From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 20 14:06:25 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:06:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Message-ID: Does this method involve adding a field to the record? If so, I've done that before. I just wanted something quick and dirty. But hey, send it to me anyway. Maybe your method is better than mine. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu May 20 14:17:02 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect -Question Message-ID: Actually Bryan has posted on OPS-Mod that John IS NOT subbed to OT. So you may want to try to sub there again John. Something didn't take the first time. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >>>>>John - Don't unsub yet. I'm sure Bryan, our list master, will check if >>>>>you're >subbed ok, but he's a lot on his plate and hasn't been around today. Give >him chance to see. -- Andy Lacey<<<<<< From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 14:17:40 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form -in9simple steps. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, <> You can, but I avoid that approach as it doesn't work then in a multi-user setting. The basic setup is that you use an OLE bound control behind the other controls. I usually setup the source for that as a bitmap field with images that are 16 x 16 pixels and stretched in the control. The images are kept in a color table, so a linking table is required (PK from main table and Color ID to display). I've also heard of folks that load the bitmaps into a variable at startup, and set the control source to a function that returns the bitmap, but I've never needed that kind of speed. I've found this approach to be a bit more flexible then the others, but I don't think I would say that its "better" then others. Just a different way of doing things. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form -in9simple steps. Does this method involve adding a field to the record? If so, I've done that before. I just wanted something quick and dirty. But hey, send it to me anyway. Maybe your method is better than mine. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 20 14:40:57 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:40:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form-in9simple steps. Message-ID: It's the same method I've used before. It's been so long since I've used it. I knew that I wanted something less intensive than that. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form-in9simple steps. Scott, <> You can, but I avoid that approach as it doesn't work then in a multi-user setting. The basic setup is that you use an OLE bound control behind the other controls. I usually setup the source for that as a bitmap field with images that are 16 x 16 pixels and stretched in the control. The images are kept in a color table, so a linking table is required (PK from main table and Color ID to display). I've also heard of folks that load the bitmaps into a variable at startup, and set the control source to a function that returns the bitmap, but I've never needed that kind of speed. I've found this approach to be a bit more flexible then the others, but I don't think I would say that its "better" then others. Just a different way of doing things. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form -in9simple steps. Does this method involve adding a field to the record? If so, I've done that before. I just wanted something quick and dirty. But hey, send it to me anyway. Maybe your method is better than mine. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 20 14:49:34 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:49:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Electronic Invoice Tool according to EC directive 2001/115/EG References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8EB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <40AD0BCE.4030303@shaw.ca> There are two ways toeasily do this, via EDI or signed certificate servers. Some companies like xicrypt in Europe do this in a more generalized way and sign all email via mime and certificates Which way do you want to go? Can your customer afford his own certificate server? Just remember EC invoices must be saved for 7 years and certificates like RSA or Verisign expire usually within 3 years. The Directive also specifies information that must be included on each paper and electronic invoice. This can be summarised as follows: - The date the invoice is issued - A unique sequential number to identify the invoice - The VAT identification number of the supplier (and in case the customer is liable to pay VAT, the VAT identification number of the customer) - The full name and address of the taxable person and customer - The quantity and nature of goods supplied or the extent and nature of the services rendered - The date the goods or services were supplied or a payment in advance is made - The net amount subject to VAT - The VAT rate applied - The amount of VAT payable, if any - Identification of exempt supplies or supplies where the customer pays the tax. - Identification of supplies of new means of transport and special arrangements for travel agents and second hand goods under the margin regime. - Identification of the use of tax representatives Erwin Craps - IT Helps wrote: >Hi > >A customer asks me to generate electronic invoices from an invoicing app >I wrote several years ago. >As you know Electronic Invoices in an EC country need to be according >the EC directive 2001/115/EG. >To keep a long story short, this means that a invoice needs to be >authenticated AND content verification before sending. >The format is of no importance but it has to be a common format. > >So I wonder if there exist already tools for Access/VBA to do this. Can >Acrobat do this? > >Greetz > > > > >Erwin Craps > >Zaakvoerder > >www.ithelps.be/jonathan > > > >This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the >intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or >reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal >offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to >the sender. > >IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg > >www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be > * www.stadleuven.be > > >IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven > >IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: >Info at ithelps.be > >Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: >Staff at boxoffice.be > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 20 15:04:48 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:04:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40ACDBCF.2030506@verizon.net> <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AD0F60.2070209@verizon.net> yup, but unfortunately that's not a complete answer. I've used different variation of the same code and while it works for some users, it does not work for all. that's just my personal observation tho... ymmv Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/20/2004 9:37 AM: >Francisco: > >Since I don't know where this program is going to end up (we're doing a lot >of remote betas with it) I (and probably the users, who won't be tech >savvy) won't know their server ip, User ID, and password. > >Did you see in the thread where I got the problem worked out with Stuart >McLachlan's MAPISend? > >T&R, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Francisco H Tapia" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:24 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > > >>I use blat to attach objects to email, I even put up a small sample >>database w/ the complete syntax you would use in your program. Of >>course part of this requires the SMTP server ip along w/ a valid UserID >>and Password. >> >>http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='blat.adp' >> >>hope it helps. >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/18/2004 8:44 AM: >> >> >> >>>Dear List: >>> >>>I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them >>> >>> >to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like >it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > >>>But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by >>> >>> >DoCmd.SendObject? > > >>>MTIA >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>-Francisco >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- -Francisco From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 15:26:51 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:26:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c43ea8$c88e8df0$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Hello I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time waster... If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) Sorry if this isn't relevant Mark From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 15:40:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:40:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <001f01c43ea8$c88e8df0$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <000101c43eaa$c0413d80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Mark It was the continuous forms bit you missed. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hello > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a > time waster... > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour > and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms > background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > Mark > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 15:45:17 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:45:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <000101c43eaa$c0413d80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002601c43eab$5bf88580$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Hi Andy It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? Mark It was the continuous forms bit you missed. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hello > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a > time waster... > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour > and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms > background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > Mark > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 15:47:58 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:47:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <000101c43eaa$c0413d80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002701c43eab$bc9d1f40$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Forgot to say... I'm using AXP, haven't tried any earlier versions Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? Mark It was the continuous forms bit you missed. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hello > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a > time waster... > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour > and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms > background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > Mark > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 20 15:55:49 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:55:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) References: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BE3@mail2.wrsystems.com> Message-ID: <40AD1B55.5090604@shaw.ca> A good help mailist or blogs at communities http://www.aspadvice.com If you have ASP on your machine, you have the adovbs.inc file somewhere on your machine. Do a search for it. adovbs.inc is a text file containing ASP scripting that provides constant string values for a whole slew of ADO properties. For example, if you don't use ADO, you can open a fully-navigable RecordSet by specifying the CursorType property thusly: RecordSetName.CursorType = 3 If using adovbs.inc, you can use: RecordSetName.CursorType = adOpenStatic --- You can store adovbs.inc anywhere. I use similar includes in an /includes/ folder off the root: /includes/ Then reference it this way: or directly off your root include the following To really speed things up you can put the following inside the file global.asa: and avoid putting all this 10 K script from adovbs.inc in every page. You will need access to IIS to do this ranthony at wrsystems.com wrote: >I'm not sure what this line does, . >When I use the include statement, I use it with a file and the path to that >file. For instance, > > >-----Original Message----- >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) > >To all, > >Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one >?. > >Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the >following ASP code: > ><%@ Language="VBScript" %> ><% Option Explicit %> > > ><% > Sub OfficeSelected() > >strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text > response.write strOffice > End Sub >%> > ><% > Dim dbConn > Dim rsCheck > Dim rsOffice > Dim strSQLAccess > Dim strSQLOffice > Dim strChkUser > Dim strChkPass > Dim strUser > Dim strOffice > > Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") > Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") > Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") > > dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") > dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" > dbConn.Open > > strChkUser=request.form("Username") > strChkPass=request.form("Password") > strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & >LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) > > strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE >EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & >strChkPass & "'" > > Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) > > %> > > <% > > if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then > %> >

color="Black">
Username and/or Password Not >Recognised

> <% > Else > strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM >tblOffices" > > Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) > > If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then > rsOffice.MoveFirst > response.write >"

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting >System " & strUser & "

" > response.write "
WIDTH='100%'>" > response.write "color='White'>Please Select An Office:" > > %> > > <% > > response.write "
WIDTH='100%'>" > > response.write >request.form("ddOffices") > > rsOffice.Close > Set rsOffice=Nothing > End If > End If > %> > > <% > > rsCheck.Close > Set rsCheck=Nothing > dbConn.Close > Set dbConn=Nothing >%> > >I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what >this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. >Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump >to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that >the user selected underneath the dropdown box. > >Thanks in advance. > >Paul Hartland > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 20 16:11:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:11:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports Message-ID: Martin, Go out for coffee! The rest of the data is still loading and remember that a page formats at least twice when it previews. Access has to process everything to get to that last page, and it is SLOOOOW. You would be better off using either a temp table in SQL Server or a temp table in Access, but the SQL Server table will be the fastest, since the processing on the server side doesn't involve Jet. I've built these monsters in Access when SQL Server wasn't an option, but don't expect fast. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reports What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the last page. Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before the form loads?? Comments?? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 20 16:19:29 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:19:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Reports References: Message-ID: <005601c43eb0$2459d610$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Out for coffee, in Belfast at 22.18pm, ha rather fight with this thing! LOL Thanks. Am going to try that approach. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reports > Martin, > > Go out for coffee! The rest of the data is still loading and remember > that a page formats at least twice when it previews. Access has to > process everything to get to that last page, and it is SLOOOOW. You > would be better off using either a temp table in SQL Server or a temp > table in Access, but the SQL Server table will be the fastest, since the > processing on the server side doesn't involve Jet. I've built these > monsters in Access when SQL Server wasn't an option, but don't expect > fast. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Reports > > > What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in > a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? > > Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a > Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to > move to the last page. > > Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be > better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the > hit before the form loads?? > > > > Comments?? > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 16:36:13 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:36:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <002601c43eab$5bf88580$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <000001c43eb2$799bf020$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 20 17:17:22 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:17:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40ABF27A.7150.578331C@localhost> References: <40AB88B0.2238.3DAF810@localhost> Message-ID: <40ADBB12.11214.50EE316@localhost> Anyone got any clues on this one: At the suggestion of the guy who's MAPI wrapper I based it on, I tried calling the DLL version of MAPISend for an application compied with PowerBasic. It ran just as fast as the exe version of MAPISend. Calling it from Access, it takes about 30 seconds or more to execute the MAPI call whether the Access app is an mdb or complied to MDE. I then pasted my Access code into a MS Word macro. When called from MS Word, it also only a fraction of a second. Any idea why it takes so long in Access? On 19 May 2004 at 23:49, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > On 19 May 2004 at 16:17, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > On 19 May 2004 at 1:34, John W. Colby wrote: > > > > > I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? > > > > > > > Working on a couple of other things at the moment. Give me 'til > > tomorrow morning (PNG time that is) > > > > It may take a bit longer than I thought to convert MAPISend to a DLL. > > Calling MAPISend .exe, it pokes everything into the mail client in > about half a second. > > Calling exactly the same thing as a DLL, it takes nearly a minute. I > can watch the Addresses, Subject, Body and Attachment info being > inserted into a new message with an interval of 10 seconds or so > between each field. (At the same time, the Access app that I am > calling the DLL from is showing 99% CPU usage in the task manager) > > Damned if I can see why. Ultimately, all of the info is gathered and > passed in one structure in a single call to the MapiSendMail function > in MAPI32.DLL. I can't see why it would then take MAPI32.DLL quite a > few seconds to poke each field at the client. Any API gurus got any > ideas? > > > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 17:31:55 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:31:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <000001c43eb2$799bf020$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002801c43eba$41941740$1d8e6351@netboxxp> No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 20 18:00:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:00:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Message-ID: Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't suggest this one because I understood the original question to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just the control with the focus. This method goes back at least to 97, since I used it there. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu May 20 18:23:03 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:23:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <002801c43eba$41941740$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <021a01c43ec1$66cba990$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 18:35:47 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:35:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <021a01c43ec1$66cba990$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <002c01c43ec3$2da32d30$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Hehehe, nice one... Just realised how blinkered I am, despite sitting in front of Access every day developing screens etc. I hadn't noticed the conditional formatting option (maybe coz I never needed it, maybe coz I'm getting on a bit). I must have looked straight at it thousands of times... I need a holiday. Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: 21 May 2004 00:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 20 18:50:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:50:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Message-ID: I've never been very happy with it, so I tend to fall back on other methods. It may work better in XP and 2003, but I haven't bothered to try it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Hehehe, nice one... Just realised how blinkered I am, despite sitting in front of Access every day developing screens etc. I hadn't noticed the conditional formatting option (maybe coz I never needed it, maybe coz I'm getting on a bit). I must have looked straight at it thousands of times... I need a holiday. Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: 21 May 2004 00:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 19:01:01 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:01:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002d01c43ec6$b3ff0d60$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get the highlighted row effect by: a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set the unbound field to the records key fields value c) in the conditional formatting put something like Expression is: [c1]=[c3] where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control in the header (or detail?) d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't suggest this one because I understood the original question to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just the control with the focus. This method goes back at least to 97, since I used it there. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 19:05:39 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:05:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c43ec7$59c7d920$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Just tried it and it seems to work ok (using XP). I only did a simple test though, I may give it a go with something more complex tomorrow... I'm off to get some sleep... Night night Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 21 May 2004 00:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? I've never been very happy with it, so I tend to fall back on other methods. It may work better in XP and 2003, but I haven't bothered to try it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Hehehe, nice one... Just realised how blinkered I am, despite sitting in front of Access every day developing screens etc. I hadn't noticed the conditional formatting option (maybe coz I never needed it, maybe coz I'm getting on a bit). I must have looked straight at it thousands of times... I need a holiday. Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: 21 May 2004 00:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu May 20 19:11:23 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:11:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <001101c43db4$61cfc330$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <088f01c43ec8$26752810$6601a8c0@rock> Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, datatypes and field descriptions. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement > is the > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be > the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do > though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be > able to help a > little more. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, > column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other > attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want > the results as a table if possible. > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu May 20 19:31:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D37B@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: <089501c43eca$f6b94770$6601a8c0@rock> Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu May 20 21:31:15 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:31:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: It's FUN to be a hero though isn't it Arthur? Evidently the developer was that in title only. You should see the poor database design we see in big deal package business applications from a major database provider who's initials are ORACLE - oops I slipped. Their table designs are embarassing in a lot of cases. A lot of head shaking is required. And the comment, "what were they THINKING?". So good job straightening out that mess. Perhaps you will score some more work out of it? Or at least a good recomendation letter. ;-) Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 21 00:58:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:58:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AD0F60.2070209@verizon.net> References: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AE2725.15819.6B50678@localhost> On 20 May 2004 at 13:04, Francisco H Tapia wrote: > yup, but unfortunately that's not a complete answer. I've used > different variation of the same code and while it works for some users, > it does not work for all. that's just my personal observation tho... ymmv > What code would that be? I don't think you've seen my source. If they are using a MAPI conpliant system, under what situations have you found it not working? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 01:42:05 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:42:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <002d01c43ec6$b3ff0d60$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <000801c43efe$bb070030$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 21 02:50:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:50:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error References: Message-ID: <004d01c43f08$58f2c550$9111758f@aine> I am doing an Insert to a linked table and it continually fails with the error. The linked table is in another Access db. Record is deleted. When I run the select it returns the records ok only fails on the INSERT. Even if the INSERT is only trying to add two records it fails. I checked the web etc and found referencees to an old bug in Access 2 whcih was related to this but dont think it applies in this case. Anyone any ideas? Martin From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 04:39:42 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 9:39:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error Message-ID: <20040521083940.A47C3256F22@smtp.nildram.co.uk> I know it's not what the message says, but it couldn't be breaking RI rules could it? i.e. no parent record. If you open the linked MDB can you insert the same record direct? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error Date: 21/05/04 07:53 > > I am doing an Insert to a linked table and it continually fails with the > error. The linked table is in another Access db. > > Record is deleted. > > When I run the select it returns the records ok only fails on the INSERT. > Even if the INSERT is only trying to add two records it fails. > > I checked the web etc and found referencees to an old bug in Access 2 whcih > was related to this but dont think it applies in this case. Anyone any > ideas? > > > Martin > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 05:26:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:26:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <01e201c43e7e$5c7cf130$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Sorry, I am having a problem understanding your problem. I just can not understand why the current date, from host computer can not be processed to meet and be tested against your encrypted date...I am completely missing your point. Please explain more. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 21 05:43:34 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:43:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4713763951.20040521124334@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Neither can I. Rocky, for your encryption function, all you need is to format the date value as to your liking: strRockyDate = Format(datDate, ) or - vice versa as Drew suggested - to get the date value using DateSerial(). Look up the on-line help for these to end your problems. /gustav > Hi Rocky: > Sorry, I am having a problem understanding your problem. I just can not > understand why the current date, from host computer can not be processed to > meet and be tested against your encrypted date...I am completely missing > your point. > Please explain more. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Jim: > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 05:46:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:46:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously described to match your expiry date.... Dim TheirDate as Date Dim MyExpiryDate as String TheirDate = Date MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... end if HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Drew: The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another problem. So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're trying to lead me? Like: DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) ? Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > the format that you want, right? > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > matter > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > translate > > any date. > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the > US > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > can't > > seem to find what I want. > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases > as > > I find more short date formats. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 05:56:34 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:56:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports In-Reply-To: <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: Check out: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundRepor ts.htm (watch for wrap) The article desribed a process that handled 500 page reports on a regular bases. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reports What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the last page. Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before the form loads?? Comments?? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri May 21 06:10:13 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:10:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? Message-ID: Andy, You are correct. My original question was centered around Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 06:16:51 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:16:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports In-Reply-To: <40AD0016.9080503@verizon.net> Message-ID: My understanding is that the aggregate function COUNT is highly optimized so a statement like: Select count(ID) from TheTable Where George > Bill ...should be extremely fast...? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports The time it takes to move from page to page depends in a large part on what you're doing in your report. Somethings I've learned are easier/faster to make TSQL and Queries do instead of the report, counts for instance and totals. For some reason the code that Access uses to come up with these figures are extremly sloooow -- -Francisco Martin Reid wrote On 5/20/2004 11:28 AM: >What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a >report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? > >Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored >procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the >last page. > >Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better >to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before >the form loads?? > > > >Comments?? > > >Martin > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 06:26:58 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:26:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <089501c43eca$f6b94770$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 21 06:34:24 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:34:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report References: Message-ID: <000b01c43f27$915cf7c0$9111758f@aine> Thanks for the infor Jim I forgot about that. But will not work as we are selecting multiple AutoNumber DTs as well as the data and the create table statements fail. WIll have a good read at the article and see if theres any way we can this. Martin From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 21 08:19:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:19:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <18223099435.20040521151910@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky I think you are facing a dead end. Why not use Date to retrieve the system date? /gustav > OK. I solved it but it's a kludge and I don't like it. Turns out that the > problem was not mm/dd/yy vs. dd/mm/yy. It was either of those vs. > yyyy-mm-dd, which is the same in either UK or American English setting. In > Taiwan they use the American date format but this particular machine's short > date format was set to yyyy-mm-dd. > So. > I changed > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") Then > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > to > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy; check that date format is not > yyyymmdd > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") And Val(DatePart("yyyy", > Date)) <> Val(Left(Date, 4)) Then > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > and it works. But it doesn't seem clean. > Getting the short date format via API, I suppose, would be better. Same > result but better because I anticipate that there will be sometime a fourth > date format. > Thanks to all for help, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again >> Hi Rocky >> >> If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that >> and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little >> puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can >> convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having >> > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in >> > the system format. >> >> > Charlotte Foust >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM >> > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again >> >> >> > Dear List: >> >> > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use >> > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. >> >> > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key >> > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the >> > expiration date which I compare to the system date. >> >> > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting >> > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase >> > but can't seem to find what I want. >> >> > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? >> >> > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do >> > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add >> > cases as I find more short date formats. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 21 08:35:06 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:35:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri May 21 08:54:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:54:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040521135457.LKR17707.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 10:01:11 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:01:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error Message-ID: That suggests either an RI issue or something awry in the way you're doing the insert. Or a permissions issue on the linked datafile. Do you have security on the linked file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error I am doing an Insert to a linked table and it continually fails with the error. The linked table is in another Access db. Record is deleted. When I run the select it returns the records ok only fails on the INSERT. Even if the INSERT is only trying to add two records it fails. I checked the web etc and found referencees to an old bug in Access 2 whcih was related to this but dont think it applies in this case. Anyone any ideas? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 10:09:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:09:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri May 21 10:12:27 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:12:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <18223099435.20040521151910@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <02ac01c43f46$074c7b90$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Oh, I do. To compare to the expiration date. Which is where the problem lies. I have to respond to Jim's email with more elaboration, but I've got a meeting now. More upon return. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky > > I think you are facing a dead end. > Why not use > > Date > > to retrieve the system date? > > /gustav > > > > OK. I solved it but it's a kludge and I don't like it. Turns out that the > > problem was not mm/dd/yy vs. dd/mm/yy. It was either of those vs. > > yyyy-mm-dd, which is the same in either UK or American English setting. In > > Taiwan they use the American date format but this particular machine's short > > date format was set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > So. > > > I changed > > > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy > > > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") Then > > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > > > to > > > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy; check that date format is not > > yyyymmdd > > > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") And Val(DatePart("yyyy", > > Date)) <> Val(Left(Date, 4)) Then > > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > > > and it works. But it doesn't seem clean. > > > Getting the short date format via API, I suppose, would be better. Same > > result but better because I anticipate that there will be sometime a fourth > > date format. > > > Thanks to all for help, > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:43 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > >> Hi Rocky > >> > >> If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that > >> and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little > >> puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can > >> convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having > >> > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in > >> > the system format. > >> > >> > Charlotte Foust > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM > >> > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > >> > >> > >> > Dear List: > >> > >> > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > >> > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. > >> > >> > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > >> > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > >> > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > >> > >> > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > >> > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > >> > but can't seem to find what I want. > >> > >> > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > >> > >> > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > >> > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > >> > cases as I find more short date formats. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 11:15:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:15:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09a001c43f4e$d68d7410$6601a8c0@rock> Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 11:17:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:17:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09a101c43f4f$11d4c6e0$6601a8c0@rock> Not a ramble, a nice story. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 11:24:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF09@main2.marlow.com> Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 11:27:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:27:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0A@main2.marlow.com> Oh, and on a similar line, why are people willing to pay gobs of money for garbage that doesn't work, but when presented with actual solutions, they want to pay pennies on the dollar. ARG! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri May 21 11:42:55 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:42:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004801c43f52$ab2344e0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> The thread is titled "Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in 9 simple steps", so I think we can be forgiven for addressing that issue. Mark's solution works in A97, using 0 coding steps. The real question is why field highlighting, combined with the record selector, is not adequate. Yes, it doesn't highlight check boxes, which is a pity. Yes, you can code around it, but are the gains really worth the cost? We all enjoy the challenge of solving these problems, but maybe in this case it is better to say the no-code solution is good enough. I would prefer the simple but compromised solution over a 'better' one that adds to the code base I have to maintain. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb e too simple? Andy, You are correct. My original question was centered around Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri May 21 11:54:15 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF09@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <004601c43f54$43848ea0$6401a8c0@COA3> Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about table design. Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design right, can you make a decent application" Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Fri May 21 12:11:41 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:11:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 12:17:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 12:36:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:36:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I think that's the whole purpose of a list like this, Mark. Glad it's working. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) I >went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. He >told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and explained >why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about table >design. Until I learned something about relational theory, I never >created any forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the >table design right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, >networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the >field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been >through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to >have an extra hand sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, >in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to >him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to >appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was >director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of >my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their >work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates >degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for >my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered >me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could >only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a >student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, >but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some >'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they >were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which >was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge >and network knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 21 12:41:14 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC39@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Charlotte, I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, programming and implementing a financial reporting and planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL because the system at the time was wide open, but that is another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) was a crook. Regards, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 12:55:20 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:55:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybetoo simple? In-Reply-To: <004801c43f52$ab2344e0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <000001c43f5c$c8986c30$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Sorry Ken, if you feel I implied that anyone needed "forgiving" for anything. I just wanted to clarify why other solutions than Conditional Formatting had been proffered and discussed. Some people coming late to the discussion may have missed the point. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert > Sent: 21 May 2004 17:43 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: > [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simples > teps.-maybetoo simple? > > > > The thread is titled "Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form - in 9 simple steps", so I think we can be > forgiven for addressing that issue. Mark's solution works in > A97, using 0 coding steps. > > The real question is why field highlighting, combined with > the record selector, is not adequate. Yes, it doesn't > highlight check boxes, which is a pity. Yes, you can code > around it, but are the gains really worth the cost? > > We all enjoy the challenge of solving these problems, but > maybe in this case it is better to say the no-code solution > is good enough. I would prefer the simple but compromised > solution over a 'better' one that adds to the code base I > have to maintain. > > -Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:10 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: > [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simples > teps.-mayb > e too simple? > > > Andy, > > You are correct. My original question was centered around > Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: > [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simples > teps. -maybe too simple? > > If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 > problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we > have to go all around the houses to achieve this. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. > - maybe too > > simple? > > > > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get the > > highlighted row effect by: > > > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > > the unbound field > > to the records key fields value > > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > > in the header (or detail?) > > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe > too simple? > > > > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in > > a continuous form, all instances don't drop down when you click the > > arrow in the current record. Using the Backcolor and > backstyle method > > works the same way. I didn't suggest this one because I understood > > the original question to ask how to highlight the whole current > > record, not just the control with the focus. This method > goes back at > > least to 97, since I used it there. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form > > and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that > has the focus > > changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of > > Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming > across the > > same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar > solution to the > > one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the > > focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row > or column... > > > > Mark > > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before > > was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. > > The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, > > whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current > row. If this > > does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > > > Andy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Andy Lacey > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > > waster... > > > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > > focus then > > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > > the back > > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a > different > > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 13:02:19 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:02:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 13:03:07 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:03:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC39@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: <000101c43f5d$ded92e20$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> >> a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370 Wow that takes me back. I designed and co-wrote one of those, SomethingOrOtherCalc it was called - originally. (I don't mean that literally I just can't recall - you get the picture.) Was going to make my fortune but unfortunately these things called IBM PC's came along and somewhat destroyed the market. That's why I'm scratching a living with Access. Aah well. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: 21 May 2004 18:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Charlotte, > I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique > experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had > almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a > major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted > MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, > programming and implementing a financial reporting and > planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was > incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at > their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with > requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of > IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about > it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet > program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a > TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL > because the system at the time was wide open, but that is > another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked > with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed > company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a > couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) > was a crook. > > Regards, > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur, > > Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the > major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in > their management structure because these guys must know what > they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who > lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the > fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do > anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. > > Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, > and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the > bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed > as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks > of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling > an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a > "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to > give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! > The guy > *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but > he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client > recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing > same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were > closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into > FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole > thing across the net! > > They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once > I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and > billed for 2 days. > > Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some > incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables > of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > > Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE > which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made > copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup > tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to > (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK > and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and > this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t > sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > > I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before > -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a > matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. > > More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues > of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the > bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation > like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got > high-fives from all directions :) > > This is a strange business :) > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:28:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0D@main2.marlow.com> I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:30:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:30:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0E@main2.marlow.com> Oh so true. My mentor would be Larry Linson then. Quite an inspiration. It felt really odd when he told me that he didn't understand what I was doing anymore (sort of went beyond what he normally does, with code....but a lot of what I learned from him about db design is engrained in me forever). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about table design. Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design right, can you make a decent application" Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:31:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:31:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0F@main2.marlow.com> I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Fri May 21 13:32:53 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:32:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1707336E@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:33:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:33:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF10@main2.marlow.com> Actually, I'm being recruited by ITT.....sort of. It's tempting. It just grates my nerves when I see things being taught incorrectly. I don't care if they are teaching to the LCD, if they want to teach something, do it right, because it is just that much more difficult to tech the right way once someone gets used to bad methods. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:37:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:37:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF11@main2.marlow.com> Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW you are preventing the record from being saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 13:50:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:50:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 13:53:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:53:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Oh, believe me, I wasn't condemning MBAs in total. My peeve was the sudden idea that no matter how skilled someone was, they could be replaced by a green MBA with no real world experience. I knew quite a few of them recruited to major banks to "fix" things who wound up looking for another job in short order, at company request. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Charlotte, I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, programming and implementing a financial reporting and planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL because the system at the time was wide open, but that is another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) was a crook. Regards, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Fri May 21 14:01:20 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:01:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17073370@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Charlotte: You are not a "doofus" programmer. Also, I suspect that if you were a totally self-employed contractor without a full time job that pays for your health and dental insurance, retirement benefits, and other employee costs; your rate would probably be higher. I certainly didn't mean to imply that any of the folks on this list are "doofus" programmers. Of course, we're all highly talented genuises ... :-))) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 14:37:11 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:37:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <20040521135457.LKR17707.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002801c43f6b$0313db20$020a0a0a@keithhome> Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Fri May 21 14:35:55 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191AC1@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Hi; I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. Numbers with 4 decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in text file as 2.32. I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. Martin From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri May 21 14:51:40 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:51:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <002801c43f6b$0313db20$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: On the 'Other' tab of the properties, select vertical = yes. The drag the box to the appropriate vertical size. One problem is that Access only allows the text to face one direction (you can't control the direction from which the vertical text is read, Access has a default that cannot be changed). Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith > Williamson > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box > > > Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a > report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes > oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone > help? > > Thanks, > > Keith Williamson > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 15:11:31 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:11:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF13@main2.marlow.com> I noticed that too. Since I'm employed full time, I charge less for contract. I consider it a trade off, not on my skills, but on my demand of time. I charge less because it's understood I can only work on things at night, or on the weekend. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 15:27:24 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:27:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't actually >affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 characters in will, >but >not the actual field size definition. However, if you limit a field to 35 >characters, because you think that's all a user will need, and one day they >need to put in 36 characters....NOW you are preventing the record from >being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid > >topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS > >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they > >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them > >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text > >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I > >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 15:31:41 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:31:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri May 21 15:47:31 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:47:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, You need to fill the fields since text fields are stored variable length. Also, for JET 4.0 (A2K and up), the page size was increased to 4096 bytes because of Unicode requiring 2 characters. The error you get is "Record Too Large" Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 15:48:42 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:48:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1707336E@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <09d901c43f75$00c26580$6601a8c0@rock> Well, thanks for all kudos! You've got me blushing now. As to the rates you quoted, I must be living in a previous century. I charge less than the "doofus" developer you mentioned. Hmmm. Were I to go to the rates you suggest, I think I'd be guaranteed unemployable. Maybe in the USA they pay that kind of money. I don't know any programmer in Canada who bills at that rate -- not even the C++ and Oracle virtuosos I know. Maybe I know the wrong people. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 15:56:15 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:56:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <09dc01c43f76$0e8dee90$6601a8c0@rock> Gasp! You're right! On reading your second post, I revisited my table. All I did was insert a few words into each column and it worked. Then I copied exactly 255 characters into the buffer and pasted it into the previously created table, in each sucessive field. I was able to paste 4 copies successfully but the error came up on the 5th. Learn something every day, if you're lucky! Thanks, Jurgen. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 21 16:01:49 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:01:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <09dc01c43f76$0e8dee90$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <004801c43f76$d700c820$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Great to see Jurgens posts. Always give you something to think about. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Gasp! You're right! On reading your second post, I revisited my table. All I did was insert a few words into each column and it worked. Then I copied exactly 255 characters into the buffer and pasted it into the previously created table, in each sucessive field. I was able to paste 4 copies successfully but the error came up on the 5th. Learn something every day, if you're lucky! Thanks, Jurgen. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 16:02:37 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:02:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I'm in an A97 environment today but googled up the following post at a news group: 'I've searched the groups trying to find the definitive answer on how many characters can be stored in a single record of a table in Access 2K. Help says 2000, and this seems to be quoted in the majority of threads I've seen. So I ran a test. I created a new table added 20 or so 250 char fields, and proceeded to fill them with 240character strings, expecting to get bounced on number 9. It eventually gave up after 3956 characters in 17 fields.' The response said something about unicode compression and code pages, but seemed to be a guess. Perhaps you are misunderstanding. You may define a table with 255 text fields of 255 characters in each field without error. Just don't let a user try to fill them up to the size limit with that number of characters because A2K will error. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" > >Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text >(255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some >more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able >to add and edit a row. > >This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k >limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have >been true then too. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character > >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 23 16:12:56 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:12:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: Message-ID: <040e01c4410a$b867b820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then be > used as a date or string and will still validate and sort correctly. Then > just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric > American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they > may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a > better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date > but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another > problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could > just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial > to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're > trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 16:14:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:14:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09e101c43f78$8f0b14b0$6601a8c0@rock> I just did another experiment. I changed the 20 text fields 255 to memo fields. Call it cheating if you want, but if unlimited text is really the point then I didn't cheat. As expected, I successfully pasted 255 characters into all 20 fields. So, to revisit Drew's point, declare the fields that could possibly be big, big -- but don't declare too many of them. (Personally, I think that any table containing more than about 50 columns is badly conceived, but that's another issue -- and I acknowledge that sometimes you have to go further -- but most of the time it's bad design.) If you need lots of such fields, use memos rather than text fields. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, You need to fill the fields since text fields are stored variable length. Also, for JET 4.0 (A2K and up), the page size was increased to 4096 bytes because of Unicode requiring 2 characters. The error you get is "Record Too Large" Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 16:16:38 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:16:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses In-Reply-To: <004801c43f76$d700c820$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <09e201c43f78$e7552980$6601a8c0@rock> I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may present a list of countries, cities and provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I assemble the address according to a template in the Countries table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common address format places the street number after the street name (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it with a template in the Countries table which looks something like this (for the Netherlands, say): \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ \City\, \Province\ \PostalCode\ \Country\ Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data into the template. I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so I can add new templates for your countries. TIA, Arthur P.S. Anyone with specialized knowledge of city-states such as Singapore is especially invited to contribute! From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 16:33:45 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:33:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c43f7b$4c36bec0$020a0a0a@keithhome> Reuben, My application is on Access 97. There is no vertical option on the 'other' tab. Is there any other way, in Access 97? Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box On the 'Other' tab of the properties, select vertical = yes. The drag the box to the appropriate vertical size. One problem is that Access only allows the text to face one direction (you can't control the direction from which the vertical text is read, Access has a default that cannot be changed). Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith > Williamson > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box > > > Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a > report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes > oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone > help? > > Thanks, > > Keith Williamson > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 21 16:33:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:33:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <002801c43f6b$0313db20$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 16:38:29 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:38:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) In-Reply-To: <040e01c4410a$b867b820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <09e901c43f7b$f4d0abe0$6601a8c0@rock> Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:42:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:42:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF19@main2.marlow.com> I have never had a problem with Access 97 either. Did you fill the fields with 255 characters, or just have the field definition? The limit is based on the page size. A field set to 255 characters with 10 characters in it takes up 11 characters. Same if the limit was set to 10. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:44:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:44:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1C@main2.marlow.com> You get less than that? And in Canadian currency? Double Whammie! LOL. Sorry, couldn't resist elbowing our neighbors to the North, eh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Well, thanks for all kudos! You've got me blushing now. As to the rates you quoted, I must be living in a previous century. I charge less than the "doofus" developer you mentioned. Hmmm. Were I to go to the rates you suggest, I think I'd be guaranteed unemployable. Maybe in the USA they pay that kind of money. I don't know any programmer in Canada who bills at that rate -- not even the C++ and Oracle virtuosos I know. Maybe I know the wrong people. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 16:56:34 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:56:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c43f7e$7bb05780$020a0a0a@keithhome> John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:46:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:46:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1D@main2.marlow.com> Right, but if you NEED 255 characters in all of those fields, then you need to break the table design up. However, if one record needs 255 characters, in one field, then it shouldn't have a problem. Limiting the number of characters is not the solution to getting around a page file size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Gasp! You're right! On reading your second post, I revisited my table. All I did was insert a few words into each column and it worked. Then I copied exactly 255 characters into the buffer and pasted it into the previously created table, in each sucessive field. I was able to paste 4 copies successfully but the error came up on the 5th. Learn something every day, if you're lucky! Thanks, Jurgen. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 21 16:46:50 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:46:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC3B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:53:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:53:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1E@main2.marlow.com> I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't actually >affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 characters in will, >but >not the actual field size definition. However, if you limit a field to 35 >characters, because you think that's all a user will need, and one day they >need to put in 36 characters....NOW you are preventing the record from >being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid > >topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS > >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they > >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them > >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text > >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I > >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:58:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1F@main2.marlow.com> It's funny that you mention this. I have talked about a project with Mike Mattys, where I would host a 'web registration' setup. I would provide a module to place within your project, then it would interact with my website, allowing you to setup registration 'flags', ie, system info, etc, along with when it's registration expires, etc. It is not quite on a back burner, somewhere in the middle of the stove right now, but I was thinking about charging per registration, and splitting the income with the list. (I'm sure it's not going to generate much, but it would be something....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 21 17:18:08 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:18:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <000101c43f7e$7bb05780$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 17:49:43 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:49:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c43f85$e8a145a0$020a0a0a@keithhome> It is a bar code label. 3 lines.........1) Barcode; 2) Description; and 3) Price. The label is a 3/4" x 2" removable label. One label per row. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 17:50:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:50:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF20@main2.marlow.com> Two things. One, change the name and remove the previous databases when you start Access. I say this because one of my biggest pet peeves goes like this: I get a request that someone has a problem with XYZ report. I call up the person, and ask which database the report is in. Answer: Access. Okay, that did me a lot of good. If they say they have a problem with an excel or word file, and I ask where that xyz file is, I get the path. I think the problem is that Access isn't really an association word that people put together with being a database, and by having Access ask for a previous database, it makes the system look like Access IS the database. Just leave the previous list in the File Menu, so people start catching on that Access is a tool, just like Word and Excel, and the .mdb file is the database. Two, add triggers. Of course, this would be tricky to do with a client side database, but not impossible. It would require a major revision with Jet. But if you involve triggers, it would give the datasheet view more excel like capabilities, and make end users comfortable with Excel a leg up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Fri May 21 17:51:03 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:51:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191ACE@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Arthur; Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from "singapore address" with google NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA 9 Raffles Place #27-01 Republic Plaza SINGAPORE 048619 -am I being too simplistic? Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) Have a good week-end. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > present a list of countries, cities and > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > address format places the street number after the street name > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > \City\, \Province\ > \PostalCode\ > \Country\ > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > into the template. > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > I can add new templates for your countries. > > TIA, > Arthur > > P.S. > Anyone with specialized knowledge of city-states such as > Singapore is especially invited to contribute! > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From MPorter at acsalaska.com Fri May 21 17:55:03 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:55:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170299FA@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> Odd, I charge MORE because I'm fully employed. > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I noticed that too. Since I'm employed full time, I charge less for > contract. I consider it a trade off, not on my skills, but > on my demand of > time. I charge less because it's understood I can only work > on things at > night, or on the weekend. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 > per hour ... > Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm > fully employed > as a programmer building commercial applications, so > everything else is > sort of a mad money. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), > > > > Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. > (Fuller's > Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of > me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level > and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and > simple, and > it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. > > > > Arthur: > > Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last > conversed.) > > Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal > desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize > cost. This > attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. > Labor is just > like any other raw material component in the manufacturing > process. You > find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that > supplier." > > There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software > developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky > Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) > times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. > The typical > "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say > $150.00/hour), and > compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges > $75.00/hour. (Of > course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in > only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" > programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of > course, the > truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you > to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound > up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some > managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of > everything > and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get > "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve > getting hosed - > because they were so cheap - and stupid! > > I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of > software development jobs to places like India. I have > nothing against > folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try > to improve > themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some > "shareholder value" > obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to > India] may > be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel > proclaiming, > "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software > developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really > mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers > here in the > United States. > > To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software > jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work > always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) > developers. > > Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 21/5/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From john at winhaven.net Fri May 21 17:58:39 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:58:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <000801c43f85$e8a145a0$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: Keith, Do you need this real quick or can it wait a day? 6:00 PM here and the wife is waiting for me to do soemthing with her :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box It is a bar code label. 3 lines.........1) Barcode; 2) Description; and 3) Price. The label is a 3/4" x 2" removable label. One label per row. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 18:03:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:03:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF21@main2.marlow.com> I also am usually subcontracting, which takes a lot of hassle out of my hands, so I charge less, so the person taking the hassle on can get a cut. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Porter, Mark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Odd, I charge MORE because I'm fully employed. > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I noticed that too. Since I'm employed full time, I charge less for > contract. I consider it a trade off, not on my skills, but > on my demand of > time. I charge less because it's understood I can only work > on things at > night, or on the weekend. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 > per hour ... > Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm > fully employed > as a programmer building commercial applications, so > everything else is > sort of a mad money. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), > > > > Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. > (Fuller's > Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of > me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level > and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and > simple, and > it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. > > > > Arthur: > > Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last > conversed.) > > Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal > desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize > cost. This > attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. > Labor is just > like any other raw material component in the manufacturing > process. You > find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that > supplier." > > There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software > developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky > Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) > times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. > The typical > "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say > $150.00/hour), and > compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges > $75.00/hour. (Of > course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in > only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" > programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of > course, the > truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you > to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound > up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some > managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of > everything > and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get > "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve > getting hosed - > because they were so cheap - and stupid! > > I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of > software development jobs to places like India. I have > nothing against > folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try > to improve > themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some > "shareholder value" > obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to > India] may > be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel > proclaiming, > "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software > developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really > mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers > here in the > United States. > > To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software > jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work > always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) > developers. > > Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 21/5/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 18:47:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:47:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Ditto. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 18:53:22 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:53:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: Canada post guidlines stipulate City, province abbreviation and postal code appear on a single line. The prefer a fixed width font, no punctuation except where it is part of an official name and one space between words, two spaces before the postal code. All my Canadian addressing adheres to this standard. I would never combine these into a single storage field. I split these bits of information in order to be able to find/sort/filter. I can see where allowing a user to modify a particular combination/order of field data into a single address would be useful if you cannot arrive at an algorithm that handles all scenarios. Fortunately I only use Word for automation for anything requiring addressing and I have few countries to handle so I have not had to resort to a memo field for this data. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Arthur; >Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list >the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from >"singapore address" with google > >NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA >9 Raffles Place >#27-01 >Republic Plaza >SINGAPORE 048619 > >-am I being too simplistic? >Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line >from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) >Have a good week-end. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > > present a list of countries, cities and > > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > > address format places the street number after the street name > > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > > \City\, \Province\ > > \PostalCode\ > > \Country\ > > > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > > into the template. > > > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > > I can add new templates for your countries. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 18:53:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:53:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You know, that's fascinating. I typically set the field size to 255 and forget it. The person can enter whatever length they need in Address1, Address2, last name, first name etc. Of course I use memo fields for the paragraph length tomes that are sometimes needed. I have never seen (to my knowledge) a failure to write the data. I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Fri May 21 19:00:23 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:00:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J?rgen: I'm curious ... did the guidelines change? When I ran a mail and file room a few years ago, we were informed by Canada Post that the postal code was required to be on a line by itself. NAME ADDRESS MUNICIPALITY PC Z9Z 9Z9 Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 19:53 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Addresses Canada post guidlines stipulate City, province abbreviation and postal code appear on a single line. The prefer a fixed width font, no punctuation except where it is part of an official name and one space between words, two spaces before the postal code. All my Canadian addressing adheres to this standard. I would never combine these into a single storage field. I split these bits of information in order to be able to find/sort/filter. I can see where allowing a user to modify a particular combination/order of field data into a single address would be useful if you cannot arrive at an algorithm that handles all scenarios. Fortunately I only use Word for automation for anything requiring addressing and I have few countries to handle so I have not had to resort to a memo field for this data. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Arthur; >Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list >the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from >"singapore address" with google > >NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA >9 Raffles Place >#27-01 >Republic Plaza >SINGAPORE 048619 > >-am I being too simplistic? >Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line >from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) >Have a good week-end. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > > present a list of countries, cities and > > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > > address format places the street number after the street name > > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > > \City\, \Province\ > > \PostalCode\ > > \Country\ > > > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > > into the template. > > > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > > I can add new templates for your countries. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:01:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:01:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. And the answer is.... drum roll.... 4240 bytes in A2K - (16 fields x 255 characters) + (1 field x 160 characters) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You know, that's fascinating. I typically set the field size to 255 and forget it. The person can enter whatever length they need in Address1, Address2, last name, first name etc. Of course I use memo fields for the paragraph length tomes that are sometimes needed. I have never seen (to my knowledge) a failure to write the data. I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:14:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:14:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. Which did you get? In cases like this I think it is IMPERATIVE to let the client know just how ugly the original code was. They may want to go back to the original developer and get money back etc. Plus they just have to be in a position to understand what they got, and what they will be getting, and what it will take to get there. If you don't tell them all of that then there is no way for them to know that you didn't break the wonderful code that they already paid for! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:15:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:15:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >I know I seem argumentative sometimes, ... No! Really? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:19:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:19:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1707336E@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: >When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I keep waiting for the shareholders (and BOD) to realize that Indian CEOs are just as capable and don't want 50 million a year for their services. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:21:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:21:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF10@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >if they want to teach something, do it right, because it is just that much more difficult to tech the right way once someone gets used to bad methods. Hmmm.... I seem to remember making that argument in the great PK debate some years ago (has it been that long?). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I'm being recruited by ITT.....sort of. It's tempting. It just grates my nerves when I see things being taught incorrectly. I don't care if they are teaching to the LCD, if they want to teach something, do it right, because it is just that much more difficult to tech the right way once someone gets used to bad methods. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:22:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:22:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >*I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Hmm.... am I supposed to argue this point? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:26:36 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:26:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: I believe the limit was raised to 4K+ with A2K. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 20:01:31 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:01:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c43f98$525e30e0$020a0a0a@keithhome> John, Sorry. Yes...it can wait. I actually went to Lebans.com and saw the XRotate ActiveX control. I tried that....it actually worked....except that for some reason it won't allow bar code font. I don't know if this is because it wants a different start/stop code, than what I had before (using "*" as start/stop character.) Or if this is just an inherent problem with this particular ActiveX Control. So, so far, this hasn't been a solution for me yet. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Do you need this real quick or can it wait a day? 6:00 PM here and the wife is waiting for me to do soemthing with her :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box It is a bar code label. 3 lines.........1) Barcode; 2) Description; and 3) Price. The label is a 3/4" x 2" removable label. One label per row. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:02:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:02:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well said. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:02:31 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:02:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC39@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: We back in history...and I remember those days well. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Charlotte, I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, programming and implementing a financial reporting and planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL because the system at the time was wide open, but that is another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) was a crook. Regards, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 20:04:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC3B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 20:06:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:06:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. Amen!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:12:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:12:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000101c43f5d$ded92e20$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: Bleeding edge or old antique...the only way to make money programming. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >> a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370 Wow that takes me back. I designed and co-wrote one of those, SomethingOrOtherCalc it was called - originally. (I don't mean that literally I just can't recall - you get the picture.) Was going to make my fortune but unfortunately these things called IBM PC's came along and somewhat destroyed the market. That's why I'm scratching a living with Access. Aah well. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: 21 May 2004 18:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Charlotte, > I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique > experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had > almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a > major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted > MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, > programming and implementing a financial reporting and > planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was > incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at > their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with > requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of > IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about > it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet > program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a > TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL > because the system at the time was wide open, but that is > another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked > with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed > company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a > couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) > was a crook. > > Regards, > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur, > > Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the > major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in > their management structure because these guys must know what > they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who > lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the > fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do > anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. > > Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, > and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the > bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed > as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks > of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling > an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a > "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to > give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! > The guy > *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but > he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client > recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing > same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were > closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into > FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole > thing across the net! > > They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once > I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and > billed for 2 days. > > Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some > incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables > of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > > Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE > which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made > copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup > tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to > (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK > and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and > this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t > sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > > I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before > -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a > matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. > > More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues > of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the > bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation > like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got > high-fives from all directions :) > > This is a strange business :) > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:22:55 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:22:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Another grim tale from the other-side...the first one gets the money (and the glory?) and the next get the blame. Pretty standard fare for a developer. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 20:32:13 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:32:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: http://www.canadapost.ca/personal/tools/pg/manual/b03-e.asp#c002 an excerpt: ? Addresses should be written in upper case; however, mailers may wish to use lower case due to individual preference or other considerations. ? Postal codes must be printed in upper case with the first three elements separated from the last three by one space (no hyphens). ? The municipality, province or territory, and postal code should always appear on the same line. I don't know when this became the standard but the standards were devised to work with scanning equipment for machine sorting/routing. I've been following this standard for several years. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bob Gajewski" > >J?rgen: > >I'm curious ... did the guidelines change? When I ran a mail and file room >a >few years ago, we were informed by Canada Post that the postal code was >required to be on a line by itself. > >NAME >ADDRESS >MUNICIPALITY PC >Z9Z 9Z9 > >Regards, >Bob Gajewski > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 19:53 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Addresses > > >Canada post guidlines stipulate City, province abbreviation and postal code >appear on a single line. The prefer a fixed width font, no punctuation >except where it is part of an official name and one space between words, >two >spaces before the postal code. All my Canadian addressing adheres to this >standard. > >I would never combine these into a single storage field. I split these >bits >of information in order to be able to find/sort/filter. I can see where >allowing a user to modify a particular combination/order of field data into >a single address would be useful if you cannot arrive at an algorithm that >handles all scenarios. Fortunately I only use Word for automation for >anything requiring addressing and I have few countries to handle so I have >not had to resort to a memo field for this data. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > > > >Arthur; > >Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list > >the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from > >"singapore address" with google > > > >NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA > >9 Raffles Place > >#27-01 > >Republic Plaza > >SINGAPORE 048619 > > > >-am I being too simplistic? > >Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line > >from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) > >Have a good week-end. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > > > > > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > > > present a list of countries, cities and > > > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > > > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > > > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > > > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > > > address format places the street number after the street name > > > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > > > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > > > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > > > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > > > > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > > > \City\, \Province\ > > > \PostalCode\ > > > \Country\ > > > > > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > > > into the template. > > > > > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > > > I can add new templates for your countries. > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 21:23:19 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:23:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <040e01c4410a$b867b820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: I am glad to hear you have unraveled a solution... It should work. Good luck Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 2:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then be > used as a date or string and will still validate and sort correctly. Then > just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric > American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they > may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a > better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date > but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another > problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could > just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial > to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're > trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 21:23:24 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:23:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) In-Reply-To: <09e901c43f7b$f4d0abe0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: I feel it is. Recently, with a partner we purchased a full Miscroft 'Action Pac' for about $560.00Can. The software in the package was worth an estimated $10,000.00US. The deal on the software is great but now all my software has to be registered...a trade-off. I feel it was an acceptable trade...at this moment but you are right this is just the tip of the MS-berg. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 21:33:32 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:33:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC3B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: Excellent bit of prose, very good points were made. Access has a very range of "developers" that it will tolerate... An afternoon to learn and a life-time to master. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 22:23:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:23:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191ACE@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: <0a4a01c43fac$28881bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Who can argue with your recommendation? I have been to 31 countries so far, and that's a far cry from the number of countries in the world. You're absolutely right. As soon as I win the big-time lottery you can bet that I'll be GONE from this list and instead checking out those numerouse countries I haven't been to. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Addresses Arthur; Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from "singapore address" with google NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA 9 Raffles Place #27-01 Republic Plaza SINGAPORE 048619 From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 22:32:01 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:32:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0a4b01c43fad$58080830$6601a8c0@rock> This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 00:17:36 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:17:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <055f01c4414e$6d090a20$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Don't know if I can do anything for you but let me know. I have a home brew way to create a key kind of like the key you get with windows or Office - this one has sixteen alpha numeric characters with a bunch of data fields encoded and a hash character. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) > It's funny that you mention this. I have talked about a project with Mike > Mattys, where I would host a 'web registration' setup. I would provide a > module to place within your project, then it would interact with my website, > allowing you to setup registration 'flags', ie, system info, etc, along with > when it's registration expires, etc. It is not quite on a back burner, > somewhere in the middle of the stove right now, but I was thinking about > charging per registration, and splitting the income with the list. (I'm > sure it's not going to generate much, but it would be something....) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:38 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format > Again) > > > Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm > wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations > that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases > prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise > MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without > issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second > install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) > > What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it > realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a > registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in > automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the > database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, > and so on? > > Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for > you freelance developers? > > TIA for your responses. > > ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please > redirect us to dba-Tech. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is > the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. > Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the > key. > > (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the > expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last > access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', > and quit the app.) > > So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access > dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global > variable to hold the month date and year: > > Public gintExpirationDay As Integer > Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer > Public gintExpirationYear As Integer > Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer > Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer > Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer > > and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, > everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the > proper > values: > > Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays > the > expiration: > "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, > gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") > > or checking the expiration date > > ' Check to see if license has expired > If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, > gintExpirationDay) Then > MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software > (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation > Application.Quit > End If > > Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. > > Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a > better way... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > > described to match > your > > expiry date.... > > > > Dim TheirDate as Date > > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > > > TheirDate = Date > > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > > end if > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Drew: > > > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > > one > for > > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > > whether > to > > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > > caused another problem. > > > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > > > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > > DatePart("d",Date) > > > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > > know > > the > > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > > encoding > to > > > the format that you want, right? > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Jim: > > > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date > which > > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > > expired. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > > not > > > matter > > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > > still > a > > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > > translate > > > > any date. > > > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > > use > > the > > > US > > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > > a > key > > > and > > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > > setting > > for > > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > > but > > > can't > > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > > to > do > > > the > > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > > add > > cases > > > as > > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 22 02:39:32 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:39:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c43fd0$0402b410$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> And so say all of us! -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: 22 May 2004 00:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors > > > >Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it > >have > been my mentors. > > Ditto. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Hello All, > > In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: > > I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major > companies...and typically it was around different > dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have > always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, > or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT > department...and let them build in whatever platform they > wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps > using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in > leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access > Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access > training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my > drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but > foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and > a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' > and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they > exaggerate, but I accept it). > > Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people > on it have been my mentors. > > Thanks to everyone. > > Mark A. Matte > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 05:49:01 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:49:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors References: <000001c43fd0$0402b410$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <001201c43fea$67da1860$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Absolutly without a shadow nothing I am doing today would have happened if not for this list and the people on it. I am 100% sure about that. They give of their time and experience not only with Access but other things (JOIN OT) which combined make this list and the organisation a special place comprised of special people many of whom I am proud to have as friends. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Mentors > And so say all of us! > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: 22 May 2004 00:47 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors > > > > > > >Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it > > >have > > been my mentors. > > > > Ditto. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:12 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: > > > > I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major > > companies...and typically it was around different > > dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have > > always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, > > or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT > > department...and let them build in whatever platform they > > wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps > > using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in > > leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access > > Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access > > training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my > > drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but > > foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and > > a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' > > and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they > > exaggerate, but I accept it). > > > > Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people > > on it have been my mentors. > > > > Thanks to everyone. > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at hotmail.com Sat May 22 08:23:10 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:23:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: You could try to format your field in the query with a format function ala Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Martin Kahelin" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > >Hi; >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. Numbers with 4 >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in >text file as 2.32. > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. >Martin > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 22 08:46:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:46:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0a4b01c43fad$58080830$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? Piece by piece. I build up a query that pulls data about one entity and a matching table for that entity (Claimant, Claim etc). In the new table I add a FK back to the original flat data record. If that flat data record doesn't already have one, I add an autonumber PK to it. In the query I pull the entity data and the PK of the flat data record and drop it into the new entity table. Move on to the next entity. Build Insurer with pointer back to flat. Build Policy with pointer back to flat. Build Claimant with pointer back to flat. Build Claim with pointer back to flat. Using pointer back to flat, update the policy Insurer with the Insurer ID from new Insurer table. Using pointer back to flat, update the claim with Claimant ID from new claimant table. Etc. Etc. It is a painstaking and time consuming thing. The bigger issue is the issue of extracting "just one" Claimant (for example) if the person has more than one claim. Now you have a single claimant that needs to be used in several different claim records so the "pointer back to flat" doesn't work. In this instance if you have a piece of unique data (a SSN for example) then you can build additional queries to join the SSN to the FLAT record to the new claim record to update the claimant id in the claimant table with the single claimant id in the claimant table. This whole process is an art, which done once, becomes trivial but time consuming. I build a separate database for the conversion process with all of these many queries in it. I then build up macros (usually sufficient) to sequence the queries in the right order. I build a macro to do a set of data, then a macro to sequence those macros in the correct order. This allows you to get the individual queries running, then get them running in the correct order, then "press a button" and run the whole lot at once. The entire process for this database took well over one hundred queries, in exactly the correct sequence. THEN.... comes data cleanup. If the same claimant is entered with SSNs with numbers transposed... well they are different claimants aren't they? Policy holders with a name mis-spelled... a different policy holders. These are exactly the reason that normalized databases exist and because we are coming from a flat file system these exact problems exist IN SPADES. Usually the cleanup gets done on an "as needed" basis. If a claim is closed, why do cleanup on it? If it ever needs to be cleaned up then they do. I have done this process on two major databases and a bunch of smaller ones. The process is always the same, queries sequenced correctly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 09:55:56 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:55:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts References: <000001c43fd0$0402b410$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002701c4400c$e3b82d60$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before appending the param and it still fails. Any advice more than welcome. There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar with about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. Martin From Developer at UltraDNT.com Sat May 22 10:13:14 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:13:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various CONVERT LEGACY FLAT TO RELATIONAL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c4400f$50b012a0$6401a8c0@COA3> Never, ever quote a flat fee for this type of conversion. Always go hourly. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? Piece by piece. I build up a query that pulls data about one entity and a matching table for that entity (Claimant, Claim etc). In the new table I add a FK back to the original flat data record. If that flat data record doesn't already have one, I add an autonumber PK to it. In the query I pull the entity data and the PK of the flat data record and drop it into the new entity table. Move on to the next entity. Build Insurer with pointer back to flat. Build Policy with pointer back to flat. Build Claimant with pointer back to flat. Build Claim with pointer back to flat. Using pointer back to flat, update the policy Insurer with the Insurer ID from new Insurer table. Using pointer back to flat, update the claim with Claimant ID from new claimant table. Etc. Etc. It is a painstaking and time consuming thing. The bigger issue is the issue of extracting "just one" Claimant (for example) if the person has more than one claim. Now you have a single claimant that needs to be used in several different claim records so the "pointer back to flat" doesn't work. In this instance if you have a piece of unique data (a SSN for example) then you can build additional queries to join the SSN to the FLAT record to the new claim record to update the claimant id in the claimant table with the single claimant id in the claimant table. This whole process is an art, which done once, becomes trivial but time consuming. I build a separate database for the conversion process with all of these many queries in it. I then build up macros (usually sufficient) to sequence the queries in the right order. I build a macro to do a set of data, then a macro to sequence those macros in the correct order. This allows you to get the individual queries running, then get them running in the correct order, then "press a button" and run the whole lot at once. The entire process for this database took well over one hundred queries, in exactly the correct sequence. THEN.... comes data cleanup. If the same claimant is entered with SSNs with numbers transposed... well they are different claimants aren't they? Policy holders with a name mis-spelled... a different policy holders. These are exactly the reason that normalized databases exist and because we are coming from a flat file system these exact problems exist IN SPADES. Usually the cleanup gets done on an "as needed" basis. If a claim is closed, why do cleanup on it? If it ever needs to be cleaned up then they do. I have done this process on two major databases and a bunch of smaller ones. The process is always the same, queries sequenced correctly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat May 22 10:58:15 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:58:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <088f01c43ec8$26752810$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <0b1601c44015$97b41970$6601a8c0@rock> Nobody but you has responded to this thread, sadly, and only with a question not with an answer. Oh well. In SQL Server the answer is obvious. Everything I want is available in the SysColumns table. Where is the same info in an MDB? Maybe I should just upsize the database and then run the SELECT? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, datatypes and field descriptions. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement > is the > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be > the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do > though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be > able to help a > little more. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, > column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other > attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want > the results as a table if possible. > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 11:07:45 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:07:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <0b1601c44015$97b41970$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000f01c44016$ec770de0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Sorry I know what it is you want to do but dont know excatly how to do it. I have sent your question to the individal I told you about. Asked him to respond directly to you. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > Nobody but you has responded to this thread, sadly, and only with a > question not with an answer. Oh well. In SQL Server the answer is > obvious. Everything I want is available in the SysColumns table. Where > is the same info in an MDB? > > Maybe I should just upsize the database and then run the SELECT? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:11 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, > datatypes and field descriptions. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select > fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? > > > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement > > is > the > > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be > > the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do > > > though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be > > able to help > a > > little more. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > > Fuller > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > > To: AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, > > column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other > > attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want > > > the results as a table if possible. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 11:16:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:16:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0a4b01c43fad$58080830$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat May 22 12:20:22 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:20:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 12:23:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:23:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts In-Reply-To: <002701c4400c$e3b82d60$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving variable has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to change all dates to strings. Eaxample: ... Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString .CommandText = "SQLSave03" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, 40, strLast) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, 30, strFirst) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, adParamInput, 30, strMiddle) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, adParamOutput) ... End With ... ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount If objCmd(1) > 0 then ... CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 @chvLast varchar(40), @chvFirst varchar(30), @chvMiddle varchar(30), @chvBirthDate varchar(11), @chvRangeDate varchar(11), @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT AS ... You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: ... Dim strSQL As String Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection objConn.Open globalConnectionString objConn.BeginTrans 'Note: '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific record from a specific form. '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. With MyRecord strSQL = "INSERT " & _ "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ "VALUES" & _ (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" End With objConn.Execute strSQL objConn.CommitTrans ... That is about all for now and I hope it helps. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before appending the param and it still fails. Any advice more than welcome. There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar with about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat May 22 12:50:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:50:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <0b1601c44015$97b41970$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40AF92E1.8000702@shaw.ca> It is all available through ADOX schemas. I may have some code lying around Arthur Fuller wrote: >Nobody but you has responded to this thread, sadly, and only with a >question not with an answer. Oh well. In SQL Server the answer is >obvious. Everything I want is available in the SysColumns table. Where >is the same info in an MDB? > >Maybe I should just upsize the database and then run the SELECT? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:11 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > >Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, >datatypes and field descriptions. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid >Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > >Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select >fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? > > > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > > >>As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement >>is >> >> >the > > >>AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM >>tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be >>the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do >> >> > > > >>though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be >>able to help >> >> >a > > >>little more. >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >>Fuller >>Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM >>To: AccessD >>Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? >> >> >>Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks >>similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, >>column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other >>attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want >> >> > > > >>the results as a table if possible. >> >>TIA, >>Arthur >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 13:05:14 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:05:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts References: Message-ID: <002101c44027$56a395c0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Thanks Jim Wil try it out now. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > Hi Martin: > > Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and > percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, > strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving variable > has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to > change all dates to strings. > > Eaxample: > > ... > Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command > With objCmd > .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString > .CommandText = "SQLSave03" > .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, > 40, strLast) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, > 30, strFirst) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, adParamInput, > 30, strMiddle) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, > adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, > adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, > adParamOutput) > ... > End With > ... > > ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount > If objCmd(1) > 0 then > ... > > > > > CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 > @chvLast varchar(40), > @chvFirst varchar(30), > @chvMiddle varchar(30), > @chvBirthDate varchar(11), > @chvRangeDate varchar(11), > @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT > AS > ... > > > > You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: > > > ... > Dim strSQL As String > Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection > > Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection > objConn.Open globalConnectionString > objConn.BeginTrans > > 'Note: > '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific record > from a specific form. > '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. > > With MyRecord > strSQL = "INSERT " & _ > "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ > (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ > "VALUES" & _ > (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ > "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" > End With > > objConn.Execute strSQL > objConn.CommitTrans > ... > > > That is about all for now and I hope it helps. > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure > > Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message > > I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before > appending the param and it still fails. > > Any advice more than welcome. > > There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar with > about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Sat May 22 13:08:34 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:08:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <192360-22004562218834544@christopherhawkins.com> John, That sounds like 90% of the jobs I get called to do! It's very tiring work, having to refactor crap all the time. I'd kill for a chance to design & build a system from the ground up, but for some reason all the garbage developers seem to dominate that market, while those of us who know what they are doing seem to be the second-choice solution. I still haven't managed to figure out why that is so. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", when >dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in >too >many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application >designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned >economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - >a call >center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was >over 120 >fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, >Policy >Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus >dozens of >"lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a >"flat >file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they >just >started adding new fields onto the end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took >more months >to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data >etc. Had >I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing >task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED >that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again >to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they >would be >using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a >handful of >testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it >worked, >then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and >COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the >switch" >one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site >for the >next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that >arose, >to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants >calling the >database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db >running >until I could throw the switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could >very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just >doesn't >function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is >astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right >way >from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very >nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put down >some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women >and >children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the IT >side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense >to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the >business >couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of >Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I >discovered >Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could >no longer >satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were >my "state >of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received >"raves" >and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college >course >in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand >relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were >all >wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have >since >gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I >eventually >discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the >rule than >the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers >the vast >majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been >created by >the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely >shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a >lot about >the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are >using the >tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent >majority" of >Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day >basis. >This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was >designed >as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product >and the >creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has >evolved >far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, >personal >databases account for the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent >to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was >disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for >the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its >roots >and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the >practical >level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small >apps that, >however constructed, they can still get their arms around and >validate the >results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters >that have >grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT >professional can >no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. >Typically >these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for >pooper >scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if >Access >could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training >screens/magic to >ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to >developer >maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we >should >"colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even >harsher >terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic >to say >users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the >pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared >with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 >questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could >somehow >be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all >be >winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of >improvements >could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth >the >handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house >that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access >is as >much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so >alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the >department needs >such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a >little >about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental >perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going >to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but >for >awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that >that's >even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a >lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in >other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." >Those >folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and >laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect >to see, >so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without code. >Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap than >good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with >the >best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather >visit a >dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get a >certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have to >produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in >the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both >programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Sat May 22 13:10:36 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:10:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various CONVERT LEGACY FLAT TO RELATIONAL Message-ID: <216210-220045622181036640@christopherhawkins.com> I'll second that. In fact, I will go so far as to say that data conversion *cannot* be estimated, because every dataset is as unique as a snowflake. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: Developer at ultradnt.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design,and various CONVERT LEGACY FLAT TO RELATIONAL Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:13:14 -0400 >Never, ever quote a flat fee for this type of conversion. Always go >hourly. > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:47 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur, > >Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries >and >execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? > >Piece by piece. > >I build up a query that pulls data about one entity and a matching >table >for that entity (Claimant, Claim etc). In the new table I add a FK >back >to the original flat data record. If that flat data record doesn't >already have one, I add an autonumber PK to it. In the query I pull >the >entity data and the PK of the flat data record and drop it into the >new >entity table. Move on to the next entity. > >Build Insurer with pointer back to flat. >Build Policy with pointer back to flat. >Build Claimant with pointer back to flat. >Build Claim with pointer back to flat. > >Using pointer back to flat, update the policy Insurer with the >Insurer >ID from new Insurer table. Using pointer back to flat, update the >claim >with Claimant ID from new claimant table. > >Etc. Etc. > >It is a painstaking and time consuming thing. The bigger issue is >the >issue of extracting "just one" Claimant (for example) if the person >has >more than one claim. Now you have a single claimant that needs to be >used in several different claim records so the "pointer back to flat" >doesn't work. In this instance if you have a piece of unique data (a >SSN for example) then you can build additional queries to join the >SSN >to the FLAT record to the new claim record to update the claimant id >in >the claimant table with the single claimant id in the claimant table. > >This whole process is an art, which done once, becomes trivial but >time >consuming. I build a separate database for the conversion process >with >all of these many queries in it. I then build up macros (usually >sufficient) to sequence the queries in the right order. I build a >macro >to do a set of data, then a macro to sequence those macros in the >correct order. This allows you to get the individual queries >running, >then get them running in the correct order, then "press a button" and >run the whole lot at once. > >The entire process for this database took well over one hundred >queries, >in exactly the correct sequence. > >THEN.... comes data cleanup. If the same claimant is entered with >SSNs >with numbers transposed... well they are different claimants aren't >they? Policy holders with a name mis-spelled... a different policy >holders. These are exactly the reason that normalized databases >exist >and because we are coming from a flat file system these exact >problems >exist IN SPADES. Usually the cleanup gets done on an "as needed" >basis. >If a claim is closed, why do cleanup on it? If it ever needs to be >cleaned up then they do. > >I have done this process on two major databases and a bunch of >smaller >ones. The process is always the same, queries sequenced correctly. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >Fuller >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) >structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create >db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for >the >last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a >correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it >yet. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", >when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected >guerrillas >in too many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application designed by the typical user often simply can't be >transitioned economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a >call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table >was >over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities >(Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, >Physician2 >etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). >They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the >insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the >end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more >months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the >data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far >less imposing task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms >they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization >and >have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to >ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new >system >(it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I >had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I >was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real >time >the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and >their >client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top >of >all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the >switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company >just doesn't function without the database and the cost of >"transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of >a >system the right way from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very >nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put >down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the >women and children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the >IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of >the >business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over >time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel >"database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years >Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy >as >a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office >guru >to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at >that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases >and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for >the >fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to >develop >my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) >the >point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. >I >am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority >of >useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the >user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people >who >know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. >Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. >This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are >attempting to >solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone >because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a >tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of >developers >such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a >simple >personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account >for >the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also >was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay >true >to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this >mean >at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not >with >the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their >arms >around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into >mission >critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point >where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that >things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space >before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is >the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given >additional >tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition >in >the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. >While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the >users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of >endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say >users >should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to >play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools >could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer >transition we >would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what >sort >of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning >curve >and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? >Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's >what >makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you >the >department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, >know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a >developmental perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, >but >for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know >that >that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it >happens >a lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone >can >"do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is >inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what >people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without >code. Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap >than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff >with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, >I'd >rather visit a dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:11:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:11:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: I see your argument. Maybe I am using the word 'artistic' in an unusual context but I simply do not know how to describe the process that say, allows you to jump to third level normalization without going through the proscribed steps or visualizing an eloquent solution to a programming problem, over coffee or the feeling that something is not 'balanced' in a database structure even you though you have only done a cursory check or know where an error is with only limited research. I also believe that the art of data presentation is as important, to an overall data solution, as functionality. All of the above items can be done with a hard edged, step-by-step scientific approach but I have observed programmers that can simple 'jump'. I am sure every programmer has at one time or another experienced this 'Zen', 'Revelation', 'work-outside-the-box' or what ever you would like to call it 'state'. I like to describe it as the art programming. I believe there is no perfect applications, There are many close but each can be improved. The longer a developer gets to hone a program the better it evolves, (or at it least should). IMHO, if the developer can not combine the scientific and artist approach to their programs how can they truly enjoy their work or progress beyond a certain point? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 13:14:24 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:14:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts References: <002101c44027$56a395c0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <003101c44028$9dde5640$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Oh and dont do this one Cut out all the parameters from the VBA module, close it and then save the changes. Its a real kick in the %^$$% when you go back to change a parameter and not only is it not there but the other 49 are gone as well. Going for a smoke and cup of coffee and maybe kick the yard door a time or two!!!! MArtin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > Thanks Jim > > Wil try it out now. > > > Martin > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > Hi Martin: > > > > Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and > > percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, > > strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving > variable > > has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to > > change all dates to strings. > > > > Eaxample: > > > > ... > > Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command > > With objCmd > > .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString > > .CommandText = "SQLSave03" > > .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 40, strLast) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 30, strFirst) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, > adParamInput, > > 30, strMiddle) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, > > adParamOutput) > > ... > > End With > > ... > > > > ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount > > If objCmd(1) > 0 then > > ... > > > > > > > > > > CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 > > @chvLast varchar(40), > > @chvFirst varchar(30), > > @chvMiddle varchar(30), > > @chvBirthDate varchar(11), > > @chvRangeDate varchar(11), > > @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT > > AS > > ... > > > > > > > > You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: > > > > > > ... > > Dim strSQL As String > > Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection > > > > Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection > > objConn.Open globalConnectionString > > objConn.BeginTrans > > > > 'Note: > > '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific > record > > from a specific form. > > '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. > > > > With MyRecord > > strSQL = "INSERT " & _ > > "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ > > (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ > > "VALUES" & _ > > (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ > > "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" > > End With > > > > objConn.Execute strSQL > > objConn.CommitTrans > > ... > > > > > > That is about all for now and I hope it helps. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > > > ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure > > > > Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message > > > > I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before > > appending the param and it still fails. > > > > Any advice more than welcome. > > > > There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar > with > > about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. > > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:12:31 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:12:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: Message-ID: <40AF980F.100@shaw.ca> This is actually all documented by Microsoft. This was an online book for a couple of years on the MS Site but then some bright light at Microsoft pulled it. Probably because it was out of date or out of print, who knows what machinations go on there. Appendix A Specifications "Microsoft Jet Database Engine Programmer's Guide from Microsoft Press" I believe there are two editions I have edition one 1995 ISBN 1556158777 For example queries number of tables 32 number of fields in recordset 255 number of fields in order by clause 10 number of nested queries 50 number of chars in parameter name 255 number of ANDS in an expression 40 number of chars in SQL statement 64,000 John W. Colby wrote: >>I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I >> >> >intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. > >And the answer is.... drum roll.... 4240 bytes in A2K - (16 fields x 255 >characters) + (1 field x 160 characters) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:54 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >You know, that's fascinating. I typically set the field size to 255 and >forget it. The person can enter whatever length they need in Address1, >Address2, last name, first name etc. Of course I use memo fields for the >paragraph length tomes that are sometimes needed. I have never seen (to my >knowledge) a failure to write the data. I think I will go off right now and >test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more >than 2K record size. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >>From: DWUTKA at marlow.com >> >>Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >>topic. >> >>Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >>course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >>are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >>naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >>fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >>completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >>the same result. >> >>It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. >> >>Drew >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Sat May 22 13:15:23 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:15:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <40AF92E1.8000702@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0b4601c44028$bfc27c00$6601a8c0@rock> Stupid me. I forgot about ADOX! Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? It is all available through ADOX schemas. I may have some code lying around From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:25:36 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:25:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <0b4601c44028$bfc27c00$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40AF9B20.3030407@shaw.ca> This may save you some time Public Function GetFieldType(colSchema As ADOX.Column) As String ' ----- Return the type of the indicated field as a string. On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Select Case (colSchema.Type) Case adTinyInt, adUnsignedTinyInt, adSmallInt, adUnsignedSmallInt GetFieldType = "Integer" Case adInteger, adUnsignedInt, adBigInt, adUnsignedBigInt ' ----- Long integer fields may auto-increment. If (CBool(colSchema.Properties("AutoIncrement")) = True) Then GetFieldType = "AutoNumber" Else GetFieldType = "Long Integer" End If Case adSingle GetFieldType = "Single" Case adDouble GetFieldType = "Double" Case adCurrency GetFieldType = "Currency" Case adDecimal GetFieldType = "Decimal" Case adNumeric GetFieldType = "Numeric" Case adBoolean GetFieldType = "Yes/No" Case adUserDefined, adVariant, adBSTR GetFieldType = "Other" Case adGUID GetFieldType = "GUID" Case adDate, adDBDate, adDBTime, adDBTimeStamp GetFieldType = "Date/Time" Case adChar, adVarChar, adWChar, adVarWChar ' ----- For text fields, determine the length as well. GetFieldType = "Text(" & colSchema.DefinedSize & ")" Case adLongVarChar, adLongVarWChar GetFieldType = "Memo" Case adBinary, adVarBinary, adLongVarBinary GetFieldType = "Binary" Case Else GetFieldType = "Unknown" End Select Exit Function ErrorHandler: ' ----- Something is wrong with this entry. GetFieldType = "Unknown" Exit Function End Function Arthur Fuller wrote: >Stupid me. I forgot about ADOX! Thanks! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:50 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > >It is all available through ADOX schemas. >I may have some code lying around > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:34:09 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:34:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts In-Reply-To: <003101c44028$9dde5640$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Martin: Insanity. If you can resist the temptation to push the computer through the gyhp-rock you have had a successful day. ...but, being through similar circumstance before, it is always amazing how fast you can re-build code running on an adrenalin high. My two cent worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts Oh and dont do this one Cut out all the parameters from the VBA module, close it and then save the changes. Its a real kick in the %^$$% when you go back to change a parameter and not only is it not there but the other 49 are gone as well. Going for a smoke and cup of coffee and maybe kick the yard door a time or two!!!! MArtin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > Thanks Jim > > Wil try it out now. > > > Martin > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > Hi Martin: > > > > Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and > > percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, > > strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving > variable > > has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to > > change all dates to strings. > > > > Eaxample: > > > > ... > > Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command > > With objCmd > > .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString > > .CommandText = "SQLSave03" > > .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 40, strLast) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 30, strFirst) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, > adParamInput, > > 30, strMiddle) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, > > adParamOutput) > > ... > > End With > > ... > > > > ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount > > If objCmd(1) > 0 then > > ... > > > > > > > > > > CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 > > @chvLast varchar(40), > > @chvFirst varchar(30), > > @chvMiddle varchar(30), > > @chvBirthDate varchar(11), > > @chvRangeDate varchar(11), > > @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT > > AS > > ... > > > > > > > > You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: > > > > > > ... > > Dim strSQL As String > > Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection > > > > Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection > > objConn.Open globalConnectionString > > objConn.BeginTrans > > > > 'Note: > > '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific > record > > from a specific form. > > '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. > > > > With MyRecord > > strSQL = "INSERT " & _ > > "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ > > (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ > > "VALUES" & _ > > (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ > > "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" > > End With > > > > objConn.Execute strSQL > > objConn.CommitTrans > > ... > > > > > > That is about all for now and I hope it helps. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > > > ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure > > > > Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message > > > > I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before > > appending the param and it still fails. > > > > Any advice more than welcome. > > > > There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar > with > > about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. > > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 22 18:30:17 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:30:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <40B06F29.6414.F9E553E@localhost> On 22 May 2004 at 13:20, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > I 'd call myself an agnostic as far as database design is concerend, but I'm strongly of the "programming as an art" school. > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. "mechanics" is a key word. There's nothing mechnical about programming. It's more like writing a poetry. You have a set of building tools and rules (language, meter, rhyme in poetry). With the same tools, you end up with either Robert Burns and Willima Topaz "The Great" McGonagall. That's why you will often get ten different solutions when you ask a programming question here. Some of these solutions can be very McGonagallish (convoluted, long winded, inefficient) but still workable. Then someone will come up a really elegant solution ( often as the result of refining some else's initial idea). > As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > This is where the agnosticism creeps in. I think that at times, there are valid reasons for not full normalising your data, the art comes in knowing where you can safely bend the rules. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From karenr7 at oz.net Sat May 22 22:01:43 2004 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:01:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: <200405230301.i4N31hQ02110@databaseadvisors.com> OK, so I've got my little license database all put together, reports, forms etc. Just one little problem. On reports a field, ProfLicense, is showing up in white on black. It is from a subtable, tProfLicense, and is a title pulled from another table, tCertification. The tCertification table has only 1 field containing the various types of certification. No ID field. Just want to fill in the field ProfLicense. In the report, the properties list tells me that the field is being sucked in from tCertification, not tProfLicense. I have a one to many relationship set up between the main table, tEmployees, and a foreign key in the subtable, tProfLicense, because an employee can have more than one license. In properties I can't make the field appear in the normal black on white. How come? Serves me right for trying to normalize, grumble grumble... Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA karenr7 at oz dot net (Spam blocker -- resolve into a real email address) From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 23 15:40:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:40:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT Test In-Reply-To: <40B06F29.6414.F9E553E@localhost> Message-ID: Test 1:40PM Sunday ... local From pedro at plex.nl Sun May 23 16:03:05 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:03:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word Message-ID: <000101c4410a$95b96490$f4c581d5@pedro> Hello Group, After merging data from access with use of properties in word, i use the code below to save a word document in a certain directory with the name; Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID").doc, by clicking a button. When the documentname in the directory already excist i would have the name changed to Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_1.doc or Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_2.doc etc, etc. Can this been done? Pedro Janssen Sub BezoekRapportOpslag() For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then strFileNamePart = prop.Value Exit For End If Next strFilename = "W:\Werkbrieven Opslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" & strFileNamePart & ".doc" ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFilename End Sub From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 23 17:35:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:35:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word In-Reply-To: <000101c4410a$95b96490$f4c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <40B1B3BB.10789.DA3B3@localhost> On 23 May 2004 at 23:03, Pedro Janssen wrote: > Hello Group, > > > After merging data from access with use of properties in word, i use > the code below to save a word document in a certain directory with the > name; Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID").doc, by clicking a button. When > the documentname in the directory already excist i would have the name > changed to Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_1.doc or > Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_2.doc etc, etc. Can this been done? > > Just check for the existence of a file with the name and suffix and increment it if necessary in a loop until you find a unique one. Dim flgSaved as Boolean Dim strSuffix as String flgSaved = False strSuffix = "" Do strFilename = Dir$("W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" If Dir$(strFilename) > " " Then ' File exists strSuffix = str$(val(strSuffix)+1) ' use a larger suffix Else flg Saved = True ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFilename flgSaved = True End If Loop Until flgSaved -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 23 22:15:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:15:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B06F29.6414.F9E553E@localhost> References: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40B1F58B.29777.10EB739@localhost> More on programming as an art: http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,63506,00.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 23 22:59:07 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B1F58B.29777.10EB739@localhost> Message-ID: Alan Cooper on programming as not art or science, but craftsmanship: http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/departments/softwarearchitect/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various More on programming as an art: http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,63506,00.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 03:27:48 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:27:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <40B1F58B.29777.10EB739@localhost> Message-ID: <40B23EA4.31721.22C41CB@localhost> On 23 May 2004 at 22:59, JMoss wrote: > Alan Cooper on programming as not art or science, but craftsmanship: > > http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/departments/softwarearchitect/ > Interesting article, but I think this is starting to get a bit OT now for AccessD. (My fault!). I think we'd better drop it before the moderators start slapping us. :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 24 07:43:34 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:43:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 08:19:20 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:19:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybetoo simple? Message-ID: Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybetoo simple? The thread is titled "Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in 9 simple steps", so I think we can be forgiven for addressing that issue. Mark's solution works in A97, using 0 coding steps. The real question is why field highlighting, combined with the record selector, is not adequate. Yes, it doesn't highlight check boxes, which is a pity. Yes, you can code around it, but are the gains really worth the cost? We all enjoy the challenge of solving these problems, but maybe in this case it is better to say the no-code solution is good enough. I would prefer the simple but compromised solution over a 'better' one that adds to the code base I have to maintain. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb e too simple? Andy, You are correct. My original question was centered around Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 08:26:37 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:26:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Couldn't the licensing be offered without sending any personal information. Just like the Microsoft activation wizard does if you don't register. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 24 09:37:53 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:37:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Oh, absolutely... My ramblings bordered more on social commentary. I can continue on the OT list if you like...;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Couldn't the licensing be offered without sending any personal information. Just like the Microsoft activation wizard does if you don't register. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 09:50:15 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:50:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Seems to be on topic to me if it has to do with offering an Access solution such as Drew suggested. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Oh, absolutely... My ramblings bordered more on social commentary. I can continue on the OT list if you like...;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Couldn't the licensing be offered without sending any personal information. Just like the Microsoft activation wizard does if you don't register. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Mon May 24 09:53:22 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:53:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCFE6E8A5@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> You can search the web for address formats. There are several sites that have formats listed. Christian Brock APT Program DSN 221-1936 703-325-1936 -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, 21 May 2004 17:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Addresses I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may present a list of countries, cities and provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I assemble the address according to a template in the Countries table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common address format places the street number after the street name (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it with a template in the Countries table which looks something like this (for the Netherlands, say): \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ \City\, \Province\ \PostalCode\ \Country\ Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data into the template. I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so I can add new templates for your countries. TIA, Arthur P.S. Anyone with specialized knowledge of city-states such as Singapore is especially invited to contribute! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:01:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:01:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF23@main2.marlow.com> We got our quote to actually fix the original code. It's difficult to explain to people how messed up the projects they have paid for are. In this case, the customer 'saw' that their code worked. Then they asked us to do something (update the data), then their code didn't work. I'm sure you see what I mean. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. Which did you get? In cases like this I think it is IMPERATIVE to let the client know just how ugly the original code was. They may want to go back to the original developer and get money back etc. Plus they just have to be in a position to understand what they got, and what they will be getting, and what it will take to get there. If you don't tell them all of that then there is no way for them to know that you didn't break the wonderful code that they already paid for! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:01:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:01:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF24@main2.marlow.com> Really, I'm serious. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >I know I seem argumentative sometimes, ... No! Really? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:02:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:02:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF25@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! I could only wish! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I keep waiting for the shareholders (and BOD) to realize that Indian CEOs are just as capable and don't want 50 million a year for their services. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:07:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:07:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF26@main2.marlow.com> Okay, I'll let you know. Since it is going to be a 'web' registration, where the system registers itself, I think I'll be able to get away with almost any type of encryption. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Drew: Don't know if I can do anything for you but let me know. I have a home brew way to create a key kind of like the key you get with windows or Office - this one has sixteen alpha numeric characters with a bunch of data fields encoded and a hash character. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) > It's funny that you mention this. I have talked about a project with Mike > Mattys, where I would host a 'web registration' setup. I would provide a > module to place within your project, then it would interact with my website, > allowing you to setup registration 'flags', ie, system info, etc, along with > when it's registration expires, etc. It is not quite on a back burner, > somewhere in the middle of the stove right now, but I was thinking about > charging per registration, and splitting the income with the list. (I'm > sure it's not going to generate much, but it would be something....) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:38 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format > Again) > > > Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm > wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations > that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases > prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise > MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without > issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second > install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) > > What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it > realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a > registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in > automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the > database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, > and so on? > > Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for > you freelance developers? > > TIA for your responses. > > ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please > redirect us to dba-Tech. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is > the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. > Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the > key. > > (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the > expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last > access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', > and quit the app.) > > So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access > dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global > variable to hold the month date and year: > > Public gintExpirationDay As Integer > Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer > Public gintExpirationYear As Integer > Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer > Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer > Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer > > and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, > everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the > proper > values: > > Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays > the > expiration: > "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, > gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") > > or checking the expiration date > > ' Check to see if license has expired > If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, > gintExpirationDay) Then > MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software > (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation > Application.Quit > End If > > Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. > > Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a > better way... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > > described to match > your > > expiry date.... > > > > Dim TheirDate as Date > > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > > > TheirDate = Date > > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > > end if > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Drew: > > > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > > one > for > > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > > whether > to > > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > > caused another problem. > > > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > > > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > > DatePart("d",Date) > > > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > > know > > the > > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > > encoding > to > > > the format that you want, right? > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Jim: > > > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date > which > > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > > expired. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > > not > > > matter > > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > > still > a > > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > > translate > > > > any date. > > > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > > use > > the > > > US > > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > > a > key > > > and > > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > > setting > > for > > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > > but > > > can't > > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > > to > do > > > the > > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > > add > > cases > > > as > > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:52:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:52:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF28@main2.marlow.com> I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also expressing something in a different media. As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 11:34:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:34:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: LOL That's because the "crap" developers often work cheap and the clients forget that you get what you pay for! There's never enough in the budget to do it right in the first place, but they always find enough to pay to have it fixed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various John, That sounds like 90% of the jobs I get called to do! It's very tiring work, having to refactor crap all the time. I'd kill for a chance to design & build a system from the ground up, but for some reason all the garbage developers seem to dominate that market, while those of us who know what they are doing seem to be the second-choice solution. I still haven't managed to figure out why that is so. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", when >dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in >too >many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application >designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned >economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - >a call >center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was >over 120 >fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, >Policy >Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus >dozens of >"lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a >"flat >file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they >just >started adding new fields onto the end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more >months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the >data etc. Had >I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing >task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again >to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they >would be >using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a >handful of >testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it >worked, >then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and >COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the >switch" >one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site >for the >next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that >arose, >to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants >calling the >database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db >running >until I could throw the switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could >very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just >doesn't >function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is >astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right >way >from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put down >some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women >and >children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the IT >side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense >to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the >business >couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of >Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I >discovered >Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could >no longer >satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were >my "state >of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received >"raves" >and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college >course >in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand >relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were >all >wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have >since >gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I >eventually >discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the >rule than >the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers >the vast >majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been >created by >the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely >shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a >lot about >the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are >using the >tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent >majority" of >Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day >basis. >This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was >designed >as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product >and the >creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has >evolved >far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, >personal >databases account for the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent >to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was >disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for >the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its >roots >and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the >practical >level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small >apps that, >however constructed, they can still get their arms around and >validate the >results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters >that have >grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT >professional can >no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. >Typically >these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for >pooper >scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if >Access >could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training >screens/magic to >ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to >developer >maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we >should >"colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even >harsher >terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic >to say >users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the >pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared >with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 >questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could >somehow >be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all >be >winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of >improvements >could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth >the >handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house >that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access >is as >much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so >alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the >department needs >such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a >little >about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental >perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going >to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but >for >awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that >that's >even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a >lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in >other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." >Those >folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and >laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect >to see, >so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without code. >Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap than >good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with >the >best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather >visit a >dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get a >certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have to >produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in >the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both >programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 11:40:23 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:40:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC42@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Remember speed govenors on cars learning drivers used to have before they were finally given their license? Maybe a nanny screen(s) that pop up saying in effect here is a better way to build this table, query, etc.. Kind of just-in-time lessons. OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 11:45:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:45:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Be NICE!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >*I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Hmm.... am I supposed to argue this point? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 11:51:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:51:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 11:40:53 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:40:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC43@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I agree designing a "Picasso" database is an art but a lot of preople would be happy with a "paint by the numbers" landscape, nothing glamorous but workable nonetheless. If MS could develop a "paint by the numbers" kit life would be a lot better. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 11:41:13 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:41:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC44@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Probably because they are the lowest bidder with the slickest presentation and the buyer doesn't have the expertise to figure out who is the most competent designer. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various John, That sounds like 90% of the jobs I get called to do! It's very tiring work, having to refactor crap all the time. I'd kill for a chance to design & build a system from the ground up, but for some reason all the garbage developers seem to dominate that market, while those of us who know what they are doing seem to be the second-choice solution. I still haven't managed to figure out why that is so. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", when >dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in >too >many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application >designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned >economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - >a call >center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was >over 120 >fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, >Policy >Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus >dozens of >"lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a >"flat >file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they >just >started adding new fields onto the end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took >more months >to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data >etc. Had >I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing >task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED >that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again >to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they >would be >using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a >handful of >testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it >worked, >then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and >COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the >switch" >one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site >for the >next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that >arose, >to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants >calling the >database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db >running >until I could throw the switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could >very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just >doesn't >function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is >astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right >way >from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very >nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put down >some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women >and >children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the IT >side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense >to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the >business >couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of >Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I >discovered >Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could >no longer >satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were >my "state >of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received >"raves" >and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college >course >in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand >relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were >all >wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have >since >gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I >eventually >discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the >rule than >the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers >the vast >majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been >created by >the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely >shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a >lot about >the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are >using the >tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent >majority" of >Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day >basis. >This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was >designed >as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product >and the >creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has >evolved >far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, >personal >databases account for the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent >to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was >disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for >the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its >roots >and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the >practical >level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small >apps that, >however constructed, they can still get their arms around and >validate the >results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters >that have >grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT >professional can >no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. >Typically >these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for >pooper >scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if >Access >could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training >screens/magic to >ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to >developer >maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we >should >"colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even >harsher >terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic >to say >users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the >pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared >with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 >questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could >somehow >be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all >be >winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of >improvements >could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth >the >handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house >that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access >is as >much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so >alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the >department needs >such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a >little >about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental >perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going >to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but >for >awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that >that's >even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a >lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in >other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." >Those >folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and >laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect >to see, >so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without code. >Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap than >good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with >the >best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather >visit a >dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get a >certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have to >produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in >the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both >programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 12:10:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:10:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2B@main2.marlow.com> Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 12:18:51 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:18:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF28@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <038001c441b3$2f705960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > the vast majority of its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 24 12:22:22 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:22:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 12:45:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:45:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2C@main2.marlow.com> Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 12:47:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:47:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2D@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > the vast majority of its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 13:01:52 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:01:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <03df01c441b9$3167fbf0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Well, I'm with you Drew, but that's just my self image. Wouldn't we all rather see ourselves as creative crafters rather than coding drudges? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > Ah, but engineering is also an art. > > Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then > practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have > the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table > to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex > table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. > db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a > fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems > to me like science, or really engineering. > > But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for > the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information > the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely > design - like a commercial artist does. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take > a > > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. > So > > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > > expressing something in a different media. > > > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > > > Arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > (AccessD) > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > > > For those who were wondering. > > > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > > in too many cases). > > > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > > transitioned economically. > > > > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > > end of. > > > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > > less imposing task. > > > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > > switch. > > > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > > system the right way from the start. > > > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > > women and children, here goes :-) > > > > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > > the vast majority of its use. > > > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > > Jim Hale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > > developmental perspective > > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > > a lot. > > > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > > code. Yeah... Right... > > > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > > rather visit a dentist. > > > > Susan H. > > > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 13:02:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:02:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 13:09:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:09:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 13:19:29 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:19:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC45@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Hmmm, maybe I should dimension everything as a variant for max flexibility Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 24 13:35:59 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FD@TAPPEEXCH01> Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From lists at theopg.com Mon May 24 13:36:37 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:36:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm works for me matey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c441be$0c4b2720$8739fc3e@netboxxp> Scott... I just tried the first solution I offered in Access 97 and it works just fine. Just set a background colour (different to the forms background colour), then make the back style transparent and make sure the subform is set to continuos not datasheet. As mentioned by Charlotte, this only provides field highlighting not row highlighting, as can be achieved with conditional formatting in XP etc. Whichever field has the focus has its background made visible by access until it loses the focus... Second point... Sorry I missed the start of the thread, I'm not even sure who started it, good luck whoever you are :@) didn't mean to spark anything off, was just having a bit of fun as I was bored... It can be very frustrating having your hands tied by the limitations of a clients setup. I'm sure you will be making the most of whats available, particularly through subscribing to this very informative list. All the best Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 14:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb etoosimple? Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 13:42:43 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:42:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm worksfor me matey Message-ID: Mark, It changes the color of the controls to that of the background. This introduces more work to get them to look like they normally appear when not set to transparent. So for me to say that it doesn't work, isn't entirely true. It just doesn't work the way I want it to work. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm worksfor me matey Scott... I just tried the first solution I offered in Access 97 and it works just fine. Just set a background colour (different to the forms background colour), then make the back style transparent and make sure the subform is set to continuos not datasheet. As mentioned by Charlotte, this only provides field highlighting not row highlighting, as can be achieved with conditional formatting in XP etc. Whichever field has the focus has its background made visible by access until it loses the focus... Second point... Sorry I missed the start of the thread, I'm not even sure who started it, good luck whoever you are :@) didn't mean to spark anything off, was just having a bit of fun as I was bored... It can be very frustrating having your hands tied by the limitations of a clients setup. I'm sure you will be making the most of whats available, particularly through subscribing to this very informative list. All the best Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 14:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb etoosimple? Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:11:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:11:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2E@main2.marlow.com> I think part of it is self image, but I have seen a lot of code in my time, where I thought to myself....that's a paint by numbers project. I have also seen code where I thought to myself.....that is a real work of art. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Well, I'm with you Drew, but that's just my self image. Wouldn't we all rather see ourselves as creative crafters rather than coding drudges? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > Ah, but engineering is also an art. > > Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then > practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have > the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table > to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex > table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. > db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a > fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems > to me like science, or really engineering. > > But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for > the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information > the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely > design - like a commercial artist does. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take > a > > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. > So > > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > > expressing something in a different media. > > > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > > > Arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > (AccessD) > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > > > For those who were wondering. > > > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > > in too many cases). > > > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > > transitioned economically. > > > > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > > end of. > > > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > > less imposing task. > > > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > > switch. > > > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > > system the right way from the start. > > > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > > women and children, here goes :-) > > > > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > > the vast majority of its use. > > > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > > Jim Hale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > > developmental perspective > > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > > a lot. > > > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > > code. Yeah... Right... > > > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > > rather visit a dentist. > > > > Susan H. > > > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:11:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:11:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2F@main2.marlow.com> Really? I wonder where the limitation actually lies there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:15:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:15:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF30@main2.marlow.com> Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 14:23:44 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:23:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <038001c441b3$2f705960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > the vast majority of its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Mon May 24 14:31:41 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:31:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Charlotte, If that's true, then why do they spend so much energy trying *not* to pay for having it fixed??? ;) Steve -----Charlotte Foust's Original Message----- LOL That's because the "crap" developers often work cheap and the clients forget that you get what you pay for! There's never enough in the budget to do it right in the first place, but they always find enough to pay to have it fixed. Charlotte Foust From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 24 14:31:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:31:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: Message-ID: <002601c441c5$c723c730$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Reminds me of building web sites. Any fool can write a web page but takes an expert to design a web site! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the > performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the > art comes in, like tuning a guitar. > > There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is > not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. > There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their > craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully > qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. > > The same is true with programming and database design. > > IMHO > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. > db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a > fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems > to me like science, or really engineering. > > But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for > the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information > the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely > design - like a commercial artist does. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take > a > > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. > So > > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > > expressing something in a different media. > > > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > > > Arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > (AccessD) > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > > > For those who were wondering. > > > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > > in too many cases). > > > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > > transitioned economically. > > > > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > > end of. > > > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > > less imposing task. > > > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > > switch. > > > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > > system the right way from the start. > > > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > > women and children, here goes :-) > > > > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > > the vast majority of its use. > > > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > > Jim Hale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > > developmental perspective > > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > > a lot. > > > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > > code. Yeah... Right... > > > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > > rather visit a dentist. > > > > Susan H. > > > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:31:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:31:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF31@main2.marlow.com> Well, if you are letting users enter data directly into your variables, then you probably should start out with a variant. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hmmm, maybe I should dimension everything as a variant for max flexibility Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Mon May 24 14:32:50 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:32:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word References: <40B1B3BB.10789.DA3B3@localhost> Message-ID: <003c01c441c6$133f44a0$f8c581d5@pedro> Hello Stuart, thanks for your help. When a file exists it makes suffixes like _ 1, _ 2 etc., but these are saved in My Documents (Dir$???). Can you give me a hand on how to use the doc properties in your code (i placed them in the code, but with no result)? Thanks Pedro Janssen For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then strFileNamePart = prop.Value Exit For End If Next ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] auto save in word > On 23 May 2004 at 23:03, Pedro Janssen wrote: > > > Hello Group, > > > > > > After merging data from access with use of properties in word, i use > > the code below to save a word document in a certain directory with the > > name; Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID").doc, by clicking a button. When > > the documentname in the directory already excist i would have the name > > changed to Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_1.doc or > > Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_2.doc etc, etc. Can this been done? > > > > > Just check for the existence of a file with the name and suffix and > increment it if necessary in a loop until you find a unique one. > > Dim flgSaved as Boolean > Dim strSuffix as String > flgSaved = False > strSuffix = "" > > Do > strFilename = > Dir$("W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ > & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" > If Dir$(strFilename) > " " Then ' File exists > strSuffix = str$(val(strSuffix)+1) ' use a larger suffix > Else > flg Saved = True > ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFilename > flgSaved = True > End If > Loop Until flgSaved > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:36:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:36:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF32@main2.marlow.com> "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Mon May 24 14:44:32 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:44:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Or as I often say (too often for my co-workers), The great thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. The bad thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. Steve -----Martin Reid's Original Message----- Reminds me of building web sites. Any fool can write a web page but takes an expert to design a web site! Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Mon May 24 14:59:56 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:59:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0A@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B2543C.50202@verizon.net> Drew, That is pure marketing genius. Solutions that works don't have to offer pretty screens and awesome logos. However developers I've taken over for, would have neat little logos, colors and maybe a cool set of macros to do something stupid like animation.... :| That sells, which is why Windows XP sells, and why all the new stuff is skinnable, because people like that kinda thing. It all depends on how you present it... DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/21/2004 9:27 AM: >Oh, and on a similar line, why are people willing to pay gobs of money for >garbage that doesn't work, but when presented with actual solutions, they >want to pay pennies on the dollar. ARG! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur, > >Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks >decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management >structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they >brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their >employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you >knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an >academic setting. > >Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it >takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is >because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone >who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked >on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 >to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give >them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy >*may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew >sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, >whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, >so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer >hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance >of the whole thing across the net! > >They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into >it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. > >Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and >bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had >no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > >Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in >theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every >transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran >compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the >doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB >to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the >s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > >I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I >suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. >But this app has caused me to rethink that. > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > >The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. >The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all >directions :) > >This is a strange business :) > >Arthur > > > -- -Francisco From lists at theopg.com Mon May 24 15:19:01 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:19:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmmworksfor me matey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c441cc$5a3c4690$8739fc3e@netboxxp> Never mind... Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 19:43 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmmworksfor me matey Mark, It changes the color of the controls to that of the background. This introduces more work to get them to look like they normally appear when not set to transparent. So for me to say that it doesn't work, isn't entirely true. It just doesn't work the way I want it to work. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm worksfor me matey Scott... I just tried the first solution I offered in Access 97 and it works just fine. Just set a background colour (different to the forms background colour), then make the back style transparent and make sure the subform is set to continuos not datasheet. As mentioned by Charlotte, this only provides field highlighting not row highlighting, as can be achieved with conditional formatting in XP etc. Whichever field has the focus has its background made visible by access until it loses the focus... Second point... Sorry I missed the start of the thread, I'm not even sure who started it, good luck whoever you are :@) didn't mean to spark anything off, was just having a bit of fun as I was bored... It can be very frustrating having your hands tied by the limitations of a clients setup. I'm sure you will be making the most of whats available, particularly through subscribing to this very informative list. All the best Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 14:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb etoosimple? Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 24 15:24:23 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:24:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs References: <002601c441c5$c723c730$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 15:33:53 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:33:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Because of the egg that splatters all over their faces when they do. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Charlotte, If that's true, then why do they spend so much energy trying *not* to pay for having it fixed??? ;) Steve -----Charlotte Foust's Original Message----- LOL That's because the "crap" developers often work cheap and the clients forget that you get what you pay for! There's never enough in the budget to do it right in the first place, but they always find enough to pay to have it fixed. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 24 15:35:22 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:35:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FE@TAPPEEXCH01> >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 15:35:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: All I know is that reducing the field sizes or removing one of the fields allowed the query to run. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Really? I wonder where the limitation actually lies there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being saved. I have found very few >instances where there was an ironclad reason to set the maximum field >size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 15:36:24 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:36:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 16:11:46 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:11:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF35@main2.marlow.com> WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 16:12:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:12:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF36@main2.marlow.com> Hmmmmm. If you ever run into again, and you remember, can you send it to me? I'd like to play around with it, see if I can figure out the limitation involved. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various All I know is that reducing the field sizes or removing one of the fields allowed the query to run. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Really? I wonder where the limitation actually lies there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being saved. I have found very few >instances where there was an ironclad reason to set the maximum field >size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 16:16:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:16:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF37@main2.marlow.com> Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon May 24 16:31:55 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:31:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000001c441d6$89e8aaf0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 16:43:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:43:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I imagine it's only indexing the first 255 characters. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Mon May 24 16:50:58 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:50:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF35@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000001c441d9$357b7ad0$6401a8c0@COA3> It indexes the first 255 characters. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 17:01:48 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:01:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <40B2FD6C.32685.156A0E@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 12:22, Brett Barabash wrote: > I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this > question to Drew and JC: > I'll answer it too. > If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your > forms and reports to display that size of data? > No. Forms: are formatted for expected input size. If you have longer data than expected, you can either enter the field and scroll through it or fo to datasheet view and widen the column. Reports: That's what "Can grow" is for. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 17:04:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:04:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40B2FE0D.4974.17DEB7@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 21:24, Martin Reid wrote: > Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? > Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file > and open that instead. > You need to set the report up to print to a PDF driver. Then instead of open it in preview, open it normally followed by a shell to your PDF reader app. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 24 19:07:34 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:07:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Can you union tables with memo fields and include the memo field in the union? It makes sense to me to be able to index the memo if it is not like other indexes that essentially store a sorted copy of the field in a hidden separate table. It would be handy if a designer could stipulate that only the first 10 or 20 or 40 or some other fixed number of initial text in the memo is the manner of indexing. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. >Can't have lookups assigned to them (). > >Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the >user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user >unnecessarily. There is a difference. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I know that I jumping in the middle but... > >By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set >it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons >not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out >that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way >down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for >setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are >coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to >255. > >Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the >flip side. > >Scott Marcus >TSS Technologies, Inc. >marcus at tsstech.com >(513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > >Good questions. > >First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide >that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for >setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, >not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a >limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, >barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) >example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer >(who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too >many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to >'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the >errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or >another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to >SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access >BE. One such limitation was a fie! >ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 >character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't >getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 >characters. > >Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely >redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about >many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. >However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen >about it. > >I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. >A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. >However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they >display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' >property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size >of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my >database. > >I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If >I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the >issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which >just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with >setting the fields to their max size. > >Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use >different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a >valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on >this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no >complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous >developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of >beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that >setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. > >So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to >you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust >me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought >up so far! > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 19:27:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:27:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: They truncate to 255 characters, I believe. There are a lot of gotchas with memo fields and queries. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Can you union tables with memo fields and include the memo field in the union? It makes sense to me to be able to index the memo if it is not like other indexes that essentially store a sorted copy of the field in a hidden separate table. It would be handy if a designer could stipulate that only the first 10 or 20 or 40 or some other fixed number of initial text in the memo is the manner of indexing. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. >Can't have lookups assigned to them (). > >Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give >the >user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user >unnecessarily. There is a difference. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I know that I jumping in the middle but... > >By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not >set >it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons >not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out >that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way >down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for >setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are >coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to >255. > >Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of >the >flip side. > >Scott Marcus >TSS Technologies, Inc. >marcus at tsstech.com >(513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > >Good questions. > >First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to >provide >that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for >setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, >not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a >limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, >barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) >example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer >(who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too >many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to >'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the >errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or >another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to >SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access >BE. One such limitation was a fie! >ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 >character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't >getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 >characters. > >Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely >redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about >many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. >However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen >about it. > >I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access >reports. >A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. >However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they >display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' >property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size >of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my >database. > >I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. >If >I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the >issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which >just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with >setting the fields to their max size. > >Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use >different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a >valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on >this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no >complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous >developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of >beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that >setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. > >So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power >to >you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust >me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought >up so far! > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 19:32:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:32:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them programmatically? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 19:36:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:36:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC42@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: >OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Ahhh, the summer internships. To be frank, their example code pretty much sucks. Ditto for their example databases, at least as far as structure goes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Remember speed govenors on cars learning drivers used to have before they were finally given their license? Maybe a nanny screen(s) that pop up saying in effect here is a better way to build this table, query, etc.. Kind of just-in-time lessons. OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Jim Hale From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 19:59:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:59:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:00:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:00:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <038001c441b3$2f705960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Well said! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:04:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:04:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Interesting. Is this a known bug? How did you discover that was the issue? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:05:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:05:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 20:02:04 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:02:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word In-Reply-To: <003c01c441c6$133f44a0$f8c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <40B327AC.6658.BA75C3@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 21:32, Pedro Janssen wrote: > Hello Stuart, > > thanks for your help. When a file exists it makes suffixes like _ 1, _ 2 > etc., but these are saved in My Documents (Dir$???). Yes, they would be the way I wrote that aircode :-( Try: Document.SaveAs FileName:= "W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" >Can you give me a hand > on how to use the doc properties in your code (i placed them in the code, > but with no result)? > Not sure what you are asking for here > > For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties > If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then > strFileNamePart = prop.Value > Exit For > End If > Next This is looking for a custom property called "BezoekRapportID" and setting strFileNamePart to the value of that property. Have you set an appropriate Name/Value in the the documents properties under the "Custom" tab? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:10:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:10:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Or as I like to say... Microsoft does my advertising for me... they tell Joe Store Owner they can design a database. He gets well into it, then realizes he can't so he calls me. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Pickering, Stephen Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Or as I often say (too often for my co-workers), The great thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. The bad thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. Steve -----Martin Reid's Original Message----- Reminds me of building web sites. Any fool can write a web page but takes an expert to design a web site! Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:11:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:11:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: There are printer drivers that turn whatever you send them into a pdf. That's what I used. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:15:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:15:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FE@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 24 20:15:19 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:15:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances References: Message-ID: <00ec01c441f5$beab8040$48619a89@DDICK> HI John I am not 100% if this is the same thing. I had an installed Access app on a clients XP machine Each time they would open a the app then navigate to a particular form that had a sub form in it nothing visible would happen. But when they would close the app (And Access of course) and want to start (double-click the icon) the app again there would be strange behaviours. IE the app would fail at one level or another. I would shut down that instance of access and the hit CTL+ALT+DELETE. That would show up the errant (orphaned) foot print of msaccess.exe - still running in the processes list.Even though there were none visible (task bar or visible apps) It would have to be stopped from the Processes Window - no other way I tried to code and recode around this for ages - no success Both I and the client just put up with it. Then just last week he agreed it was his computer causing these errant (orphaned) footprints because the same thing had happened to him whilst he was in Word - IE a Word footprint was left 'running' after closing Word - Of course you can only see this in the processes of Task Manager. So...Installed the Latest Office Service pack and now all is well. This had pi**ed me off for about 5 months and the customer put up with it (thankfully) So if you are having the same problems try the latest Office Service Pack for your version. Not very technical but it fixed it. See ya DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances > I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", > i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next > merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen > often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is > causing them, how they were opened etc. > > Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them > programmatically? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accma at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 20:18:49 2004 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, CMA) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:18:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print Message-ID: Hi Guys! I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " Lachapelle # " Did anyone encountered that problem before! Thanks a lot! Annie Courchesne, CMA From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 20:23:05 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:23:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <40B32C99.26760.CDB2FF@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 20:59, John W. Colby wrote: > Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When > I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have > claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they > wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what > they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip > could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city > and country. > Was it only in October last year that someone said:: "LOL. Not true, I am a HUGE fan of internationalization... where it makes sense. I don't suppose I've ever mentioned that I, PERSONALLY, have never needed it?" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 20:50:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:50:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B332EF.29514.E6733D@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accma at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 20:56:22 2004 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, CMA) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:56:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print In-Reply-To: <40B332EF.29514.E6733D@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Already tried that. All fonts does the same thing! The worst part is that I remember having this problem a while back... but my memory is currently failing me! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Stuart McLachlan Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:50 A : Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Objet : Re: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:58:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:58:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances In-Reply-To: <00ec01c441f5$beab8040$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Thanks, always good advice. The client is not too religious about installing service packs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances HI John I am not 100% if this is the same thing. I had an installed Access app on a clients XP machine Each time they would open a the app then navigate to a particular form that had a sub form in it nothing visible would happen. But when they would close the app (And Access of course) and want to start (double-click the icon) the app again there would be strange behaviours. IE the app would fail at one level or another. I would shut down that instance of access and the hit CTL+ALT+DELETE. That would show up the errant (orphaned) foot print of msaccess.exe - still running in the processes list.Even though there were none visible (task bar or visible apps) It would have to be stopped from the Processes Window - no other way I tried to code and recode around this for ages - no success Both I and the client just put up with it. Then just last week he agreed it was his computer causing these errant (orphaned) footprints because the same thing had happened to him whilst he was in Word - IE a Word footprint was left 'running' after closing Word - Of course you can only see this in the processes of Task Manager. So...Installed the Latest Office Service pack and now all is well. This had pi**ed me off for about 5 months and the customer put up with it (thankfully) So if you are having the same problems try the latest Office Service Pack for your version. Not very technical but it fixed it. See ya DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances > I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", > i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next > merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen > often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is > causing them, how they were opened etc. > > Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them > programmatically? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 21:01:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:01:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B32C99.26760.CDB2FF@localhost> Message-ID: LOL. Yep. And so far internationalization (as defined by our European friend) has never reared it's ugly head. He was talking about designing all my stuff so that if run in Finland it would just work. I'm talking about putting a country field in the app. Not exactly the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On 24 May 2004 at 20:59, John W. Colby wrote: > Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When > I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have > claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they > wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what > they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip > could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city > and country. > Was it only in October last year that someone said:: "LOL. Not true, I am a HUGE fan of internationalization... where it makes sense. I don't suppose I've ever mentioned that I, PERSONALLY, have never needed it?" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accma at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 21:05:36 2004 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, CMA) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:05:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print SOLVED In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Guys, I solved the problem. I think it only occurs on a French system. Anyways, if any of you are interested in the solution, here is the article on MKB http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;fr;469516&Product=acc2000F ra This problem is because of language set on the computer... if you can believe that!!! Thanks a lot! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Annie Courchesne, CMA Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:56 A : Access Developers discussion and problem solving Objet : RE: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print Hi Stuart, Already tried that. All fonts does the same thing! The worst part is that I remember having this problem a while back... but my memory is currently failing me! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Stuart McLachlan Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:50 A : Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Objet : Re: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:17:02 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:17:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B2543C.50202@verizon.net> Message-ID: Good points.:-) It is easy for an unknowledgeable client to be fooled by flashy graphics. There is an old saying that goes something like: Presentation is perception and perception is reality. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Drew, That is pure marketing genius. Solutions that works don't have to offer pretty screens and awesome logos. However developers I've taken over for, would have neat little logos, colors and maybe a cool set of macros to do something stupid like animation.... :| That sells, which is why Windows XP sells, and why all the new stuff is skinnable, because people like that kinda thing. It all depends on how you present it... DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/21/2004 9:27 AM: >Oh, and on a similar line, why are people willing to pay gobs of money for >garbage that doesn't work, but when presented with actual solutions, they >want to pay pennies on the dollar. ARG! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur, > >Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks >decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management >structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they >brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their >employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you >knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an >academic setting. > >Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it >takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is >because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone >who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked >on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 >to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give >them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy >*may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew >sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, >whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, >so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer >hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance >of the whole thing across the net! > >They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into >it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. > >Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and >bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had >no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > >Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in >theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every >transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran >compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the >doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB >to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the >s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > >I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I >suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. >But this app has caused me to rethink that. > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > >The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. >The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all >directions :) > >This is a strange business :) > >Arthur > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Mon May 24 21:26:26 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <000801c441ff$b2fdf430$6401a8c0@delllaptop> I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, California 1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. 2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd 3. Who would be attending? 4. Who would like to present? 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? 6. Who has a projector we can use? JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:27:08 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:27:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <000001c441d6$89e8aaf0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: Is not that basically the same thing? Just wondering Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:37:19 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:37:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The way the government office that I am working in does. My name is JimLawre That about sums it up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:37:16 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:37:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have ran into the same problem...I believe it is a timing issue. If you get ahead of the document processing, the instance of Word does not close even though you have apparently exited properly. I do not have the code here but I believe I resolved it by running a DoEvent with a 'borrow' piece of API sample code, from Leban's web site that watched for instances of Word and a global variable. (Now that I have given you such an accurate description, the rest should be easy....) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:32 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them programmatically? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 21:41:38 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:41:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: <000801c441ff$b2fdf430$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <055901c44201$cdac7b10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I'm in. Except for Aug. 7. I'm in North Carolina (don't ask). Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Hecht" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > California > > > > 1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > 2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 > Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > 3. Who would be attending? > > 4. Who would like to present? > > 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > 6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > JOE HECHT > > LOS ANGELES CA > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:40:06 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:40:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Memory is the second thing to go but I can not remember the first. A client had a problem with seeing a particular text font and it turned out the font size had somehow been reduced it 2 point font. We had no idea how that happened but just increase the size and all was well again. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, CMA Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print Hi Stuart, Already tried that. All fonts does the same thing! The worst part is that I remember having this problem a while back... but my memory is currently failing me! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Stuart McLachlan Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:50 A : Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Objet : Re: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon May 24 21:46:44 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0@rock> This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read you. I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would > agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong > way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, > and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one > very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a > good artist is going to draw something that is immediately > recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can > take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db > design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing > something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, > stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' > media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% > science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as > auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be > compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the > database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published > poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, > tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the > connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. > Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not > much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is > strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, > a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of > incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific > theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a > art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an > artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American > "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected > guerrillas in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, > Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly > the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test > it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the > forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the > normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the > new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the > users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work > like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting > the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several > weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep > the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the > database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db > running until I could throw the switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was > very nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to > put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide > the women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from > the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT > the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in > self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side > of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to > me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly > over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when > Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several > years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was > happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the > office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. > It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational > databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong > except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since > gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually > discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule > than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer > numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access > databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than > developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group > recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating > around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my > company we have several people who know a lot about the business but > only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to > produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of > Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day > basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product > was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the > product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list > that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact > remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of > its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this > mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble > not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get > their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph > into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity > to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid > results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off > into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. > So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be > given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease > the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer > maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we > should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even > harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not > realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the > development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain > about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all > are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at > building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper > where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine > what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to > smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners > IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements > could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth > the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you > the department needs such and such, and you're not a database > developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with > crap from a developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, > but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know > that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it > happens a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to > get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even > have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon May 24 21:50:33 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:50:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c44203$0c7e37b0$6601a8c0@rock> I have never yet seen a case where denormalization is correct, except in OLAP apps, which are fundamentally different that OLTP apps. I have been overruled by higher-ups on this point several times, and never once been convinced of their correctness. Show me a case in an OLTP app where denormalization is correct, and demonstrate why it is correct as opposed to the "logically correct" model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim From artful at rogers.com Mon May 24 21:52:21 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:52:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000601c44203$4d208b10$6601a8c0@rock> For this work I always rely on PDFMail. Google it. It's cheap and works brilliantly. Get the developer's version and you're home free. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Mon May 24 21:57:53 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:57:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000801c441ff$b2fdf430$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <200405250258.i4P2wJ3s014724@mxsf24.cluster1.charter.net> Joe Hecht said: > I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los > Angeles, California > 3. Who would be attending? Kathryn Bassett > 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? So far, all August Saturdays are open for me except the first one (my brother's getting married that day). > 6. Who has a projector we can use? Slight possibility I might be able to come up with one, but too early to tell. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 22:46:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:46:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <40B32C99.26760.CDB2FF@localhost> Message-ID: <40B34E34.22415.150F809@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 22:01, John W. Colby wrote: > LOL. Yep. And so far internationalization (as defined by our European > friend) has never reared it's ugly head. He was talking about designing all > my stuff so that if run in Finland it would just work. I'm talking about > putting a country field in the app. And "internationalizing" it by allowing formats for the zip/postal code other than US :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 00:17:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:17:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: Is it not as simple as using a call to GetObject? Public Sub KillWord() Dim objWord as Word.Application Set objWord = GetObject(, "Word.Application") If objWord Is Nothing Then Else objWord.Close Set objWord = Nothing End If End Function You may need to iterate the Word documents collection and close those first. It could get ugly if the user has his own instance of Word open and you start killing off his documents. I don't use conventional merges relying on automation instead and have yet to have a problem with closing Word instances. Your best bet so as not to get a user instance is to use GetObject to secure pointers to all user instances before you begin your merge and then kill instance where the object is not the same as one of the user instances. For automation, it is usually enough to CreateObject and check that it is nothing when you are done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", >i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next >merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't >happen >often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is >causing them, how they were opened etc. > >Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them >programmatically? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 25 01:45:38 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:45:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD910@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I was not folowing the thread but Word like Access but unlike Outlook is Multi Instance... Meaning You can have 5 times word.exe loaded, if this function would work how you gonna know which instance you gonna kill? Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Is it not as simple as using a call to GetObject? Public Sub KillWord() Dim objWord as Word.Application Set objWord = GetObject(, "Word.Application") If objWord Is Nothing Then Else objWord.Close Set objWord = Nothing End If End Function You may need to iterate the Word documents collection and close those first. It could get ugly if the user has his own instance of Word open and you start killing off his documents. I don't use conventional merges relying on automation instead and have yet to have a problem with closing Word instances. Your best bet so as not to get a user instance is to use GetObject to secure pointers to all user instances before you begin your merge and then kill instance where the object is not the same as one of the user instances. For automation, it is usually enough to CreateObject and check that it is nothing when you are done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get >"orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This >prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the >orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know >how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. > >Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them >programmatically? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 25 03:55:11 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:55:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD914@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Maybe you can access the Active-X controls of acrobat from Access. I noticed having Acrobat Distiler as an Active-X but don't know if you can use it in VBA. I tought to have read something somewhere about VBA controls for Acrobat. But, I supose they (the writing ones) will not be part of Acrobat Reader. You probably need the Acrobat writer (as I have)) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFs On 24 May 2004 at 21:24, Martin Reid wrote: > Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? > Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a > PDF file and open that instead. > You need to set the report up to print to a PDF driver. Then instead of open it in preview, open it normally followed by a shell to your PDF reader app. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 25 04:19:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:19:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <002601c441c5$c723c730$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <16010123837.20040525111923@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Have a look here: http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?WebPageID=450 and http://membres.lycos.fr/jppusterla/pages/plug_ins_acrobat_n.html /gustav > Date: 2004-05-24 22:24 > Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? > Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file > and open that instead. > Martin From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 25 04:23:21 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040525092321.98941.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Don't know if this was solved or not but this does the trick. Here's part of my VB code wich attaches a file to an e-mail. It makes use of the MAPISESSION component : frmMain.MAPISession1.UserName = ProfileName frmMain.MAPISession1.NewSession = True frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOn With frmMain.MAPIMessages1 .SessionID = frmMain.MAPISession1.SessionID .Compose .MsgIndex = -1 .RecipAddress = Recip .ResolveName .MsgSubject = strMail_Titel .MsgNoteText = NoteText If Bestand <> "" Then .AttachmentIndex = .AttachmentCount .AttachmentPathName = Bestand .AttachmentType = mapData .AttachmentPosition = Len(.MsgNoteText) - 1 .AttachmentName = Bestand End If .Send End With frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOff frmMain.MAPIMessages1.SessionID = -1 SendMailOrder = True LogStatus "Mail verstuurd (" & strMail_Titel & ")" Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 25 04:29:12 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <20040525092912.86935.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, sorry but I do not know how to do this (I did it once in C# but that's a whole diff ballgame). You could try http://asp101.aspin.com/ or http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/vbscript_ref_functions.asp?output=print http://www.asptutorial.info/ http://4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/amb/amb.beginnerasp.shtml HTH. Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 25 04:39:42 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <20040525092912.86935.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040525093942.2198.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> HAHAAHAHA I found it!! I retrieved the source code from www.google.com See below. The following code does the trick: It references a FORM named f wich has an object named q (the searchbox (input)) Somewhere in the code there's a line:
and a line that says: I think now you can figure it out! Regards, Sander PS: ALWAYS USE GOOGLE TO FIND THE ANSWER :-) Google
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S D wrote: Hi Paul, sorry but I do not know how to do this (I did it once in C# but that's a whole diff ballgame). You could try http://asp101.aspin.com/ or http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/vbscript_ref_functions.asp?output=print http://www.asptutorial.info/ http://4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/amb/amb.beginnerasp.shtml HTH. Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue May 25 04:48:12 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:48:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Message-ID: <26209081.1085478492407.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Sander Figured it out, after you put the input boxs on the screen but still within the Form tags just put Thanks anyway Paul Message date : May 25 2004, 10:32 AM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Hi Paul, sorry but I do not know how to do this (I did it once in C# but that's a whole diff ballgame). You could try http://asp101.aspin.com/ or http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/vbscript_ref_functions.asp?output=print http://www.asptutorial.info/ http://4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/amb/amb.beginnerasp.shtml HTH. Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:13:02 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:13:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I know those limitations. I was making a point. Much like suggesting setting everything to variant to cover the bases. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:21:14 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:21:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Why wouldn't you write code to handle this exception? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:23:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:23:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Tue May 25 06:23:40 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:23:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4424a$bb7f1ee0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> It isn't in a sense... Think about it... If you export a report to Excel, you don't print the whole report to Excel. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Is not that basically the same thing? Just wondering Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:37:58 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:37:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:45:08 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:45:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. Which is fine. How do you know when it will be greater than 255? Some limit must be determined, otherwise we should just set all the fields to memo, because in the future someone may want to make a change. Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:48:10 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:48:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? You don't. The user does or they call you and you fix the issue. How often is this going to happen? Are we talking about .01% of the data entry on that field? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:51:25 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:51:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <<... My name is JimLawre That's funny. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various The way the government office that I am working in does. My name is JimLawre That about sums it up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 25 07:55:02 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:02 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD91D@stekelbes.ithelps.local> And exporting will limit your formatting posibilities.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs It isn't in a sense... Think about it... If you export a report to Excel, you don't print the whole report to Excel. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Is not that basically the same thing? Just wondering Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 07:57:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:57:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B3CF59.31134.3496DA3@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Tue May 25 08:27:32 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:27:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Great points, Stuart. Plus, there's the explanations and documentation of the changes. And the clients who don't want to pay for the modifications, even when they prescribe the changes. I once had a client that requested a very complex report. After doing the analysis, documenting the business rules, and discussing the mock-ups, I wrote the report. The client said the report wasn't right, that the calculations were wrong. So, I went over the business rule document with the client, and the client changed several rules. Of course, the client said these weren't changes -- I had gotten it wrong. So I re-did the business rules, and gave them the new report. Again, it was "wrong". Again, we went over the business rules. Again, I revised the report. This went through several iterations. Each time it was wrong, and it was my fault because I just didn't understand the business rules, or didn't get them right, according to the client. The last time they revised (or "corrected") the business rules, the new calculations looked familiar. Sure enough, the business rules now set by the client were the original business rules from the very first iteration of the report. I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them that we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business rules this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good laugh, and learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should have gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to them. I learned a valuable lesson. I quit consulting and went back into Corporate America. The client is a little more understanding when it's yourself. Don't assume that the client will pay for any and all changes they request down the road. Some will, but some will always try to get something for nothing. Steve -----Stuart McLachlan's Original Message----- On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 08:27:59 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:27:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I'll answer your question with a question... Do you stick the client with a bill to modify the report because it no longer looks correct (or goes to a second page for 1 character) when the data makes the fields expand? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 25 08:29:48 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:29:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B3CF59.31134.3496DA3@localhost> References: <40B3CF59.31134.3496DA3@localhost> Message-ID: <13125148942.20040525152948@cactus.dk> Hi Stuart well, you and several contributors to this thread - with Arthur and Scott as the bright exceptions - should join a club of weeping school girls. Now come on and get professional as is the general attitude of our fellow listers. If you design an app wrongly, you'll of course have to fix it; if some standard is changed, say postal codes for a country goes from x to y format and you couldn't know, the client has to pay. If your app is out in big numbers, you would offer an update. Since when has distributing an update been a problem? /gustav > On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: >> >> Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state >> abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll >> make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. >> > And who pays for that work to be done? > Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that > shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time > yourself. > What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different > places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the > sites. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 25 08:34:04 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:34:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14125404720.20040525153404@cactus.dk> Hi Stephen You'll meet clients of this type from time to time. The only cure is to dump them as soon as you notice their true attitude - which probably is different from the nice attitude when signing the original deal. /gustav > I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them that > we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business rules > this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good laugh, and > learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my > fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should have > gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to > them. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 08:43:29 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:43:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Stephen, Right or wrong, your contract with the client determines who pays. Are you working by the hour or by the project? If the client won't pay for your time when they agree to pay by the hour, that would be them breaking the contract. These are the type of clients you should get rid of if possible. You must weigh the benefits of keeping the contract vs. free work. Such is the nature of contract work. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Pickering, Stephen Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Great points, Stuart. Plus, there's the explanations and documentation of the changes. And the clients who don't want to pay for the modifications, even when they prescribe the changes. I once had a client that requested a very complex report. After doing the analysis, documenting the business rules, and discussing the mock-ups, I wrote the report. The client said the report wasn't right, that the calculations were wrong. So, I went over the business rule document with the client, and the client changed several rules. Of course, the client said these weren't changes -- I had gotten it wrong. So I re-did the business rules, and gave them the new report. Again, it was "wrong". Again, we went over the business rules. Again, I revised the report. This went through several iterations. Each time it was wrong, and it was my fault because I just didn't understand the business rules, or didn't get them right, according to the client. The last time they revised (or "corrected") the business rules, the new calculations looked familiar. Sure enough, the business rules now set by the client were the original business rules from the very first iteration of the report. I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them that we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business rules this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good laugh, and learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should have gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to them. I learned a valuable lesson. I quit consulting and went back into Corporate America. The client is a little more understanding when it's yourself. Don't assume that the client will pay for any and all changes they request down the road. Some will, but some will always try to get something for nothing. Steve -----Stuart McLachlan's Original Message----- On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 09:03:14 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:03:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: Which is why I suggest you explicitly create a Word instance and get an object pointer to it and then use that instance for your purposes. If you are working in a RAM bound system (there was a time when all my users ran WinNT4, Office97 on 32 megabyte machines and I only created a Word object if it didn't already exist and killed it only if my code created that instance), additional considerations may apply. If you simply create new instances for your code, you can compare object instances with any you get from CreateObject and only destroy it if they are the same. The problem John is likely having is that there is an unclosed object reference to a Word Table or Selection or Bookmark or Document arising from the merge. This approach will warn you that you have unclosed instances hanging about and you may as well make them visible so the user can kill them rather than notifying them and having him go to task manager. As long as the instance is still hanging around you can still use GetObject to reuse the one you can't kill rather than keep on creating additional instances. Again, this works well with automation and I can't really comment on conventional merges because I don't use them. I occasionally had failures to kill Word application instances before I fixed my error handling to close all objects in the exit code of all procedures but have not had such a problem using automation for several years. I know this can't be a problem with John's code so I assume it's something to do with merging to Word. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:45:38 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc4-f40.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.176]) by mc4-s14.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 24 May 2004 23:48:12 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc4-f40.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 24 May 2004 >23:46:44 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i4P6jvQ17763;Tue, 25 May 2004 01:45:57 -0500 >Received: from potassium.iops.versanet.be ([212.53.4.31])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4P6jOQ16981for >; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:45:24 -0500 >Received: from stekelbes.ithelps.be (cust70-2.dsl.versadsl.be >[62.166.70.2])by potassium.iops.versanet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id >717663EE26for ;Tue, 25 May 2004 08:45:58 >+0200 (CEST) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+sozsxmmF3QPPwuwgjFK2muXiY4VLwGkv7s= >content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Message-ID: ><46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD910 at stekelbes.ithelps.local> >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 >X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [AccessD] Orphaned >program instances >Thread-Index: AcRCGkkvfF2BjiIjR1epfrpk2GrscAACUy7g >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi4P6jOQ16981 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 06:46:44.0897 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0B4B8110:01C44224] > > >I was not folowing the thread but Word like Access but unlike Outlook is >Multi Instance... > >Meaning You can have 5 times word.exe loaded, if this function would work >how you gonna know which instance you gonna kill? > >Erwin > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:18 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances > >Is it not as simple as using a call to GetObject? > >Public Sub KillWord() > > Dim objWord as Word.Application > > Set objWord = GetObject(, "Word.Application") > If objWord Is Nothing Then > Else > objWord.Close > Set objWord = Nothing >End If >End Function > >You may need to iterate the Word documents collection and close those >first. > It could get ugly if the user has his own instance of Word open and you >start killing off his documents. I don't use conventional merges relying >on automation instead and have yet to have a problem with closing Word >instances. Your best bet so as not to get a user instance is to use >GetObject to secure pointers to all user instances before you begin your >merge and then kill instance where the object is not the same as one of the >user instances. For automation, it is usually enough to CreateObject and >check that it is nothing when you are done. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "John W. Colby" > > > >I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get > >"orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This > >prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the > >orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know > >how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. > > > >Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them > >programmatically? > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 09:17:32 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:17:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 09:24:05 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:24:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a That's why you have address line 2. Just messing with you, John. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 09:37:38 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:37:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251121.i4PBL2Q23567@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> Arthur, I agree in part with you. One thing that no one has said that I think is essential to "good" database design is imagination. And, you are correct in that there really is only one "perfect" design, with many that are close, and even more that are flawed. I think that the imagination is where the "art" comes in. There is nothing more artistic than a nice E size plot of a good database design. ;-) Most db designers will not go past 3rd normal form. Sorry guys, but that falls into the "close" category. There is a reason that there is 6 normal forms defined. 1 - 5 and Boyce-Codd. Sometimes the "art" is in how we ask the questions to determine the correct design. I have a friend that is extremely good at OLAP design. He was working with me on an OLTP system. When I sketched out the design, he looked at it and said, "Yeah, it looks right, but how did you get there?" When I explained all the steps that I went through in my head, he was amazed at the jumps that I make in the design mentally. Art? Maybe, or maybe just a different way of thinking. The other thing that I told him is that I had reduced all of the 5 numbered normal forms to a single question. "Can there ever be more than one?" If the answer is not "No," then you need another table. Following this faithfully will get you fully normalized. He thought about this over the weekend, thinking that I had simplified it too much. He went and read the requirements for each normal form. When he came back on Monday, he said that he could not find an instance where my way of thinking about design would not work. Maybe the art is in the questions we ask to get the design we get. I like to think that at least a little of what I do is art and not just pure logic. :-)) Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I am ADD. Might be some good questions... How many of you that consider yourselves good programmers are ADD? How many of you that consider yourselves good db architects are ADD? Robert P.S. I think that this has been a great discussion. It shows the diversity of opinions from an educated group of developers. At 06:21 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0 at rock> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to >persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a >bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you >f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read >you. > >I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. > >Arthur From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 09:39:48 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:39:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs In-Reply-To: <200405251417.i4PEHGQ25162@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525093845.0173adf8@pop3.highstream.net> Why not? I have a stored procedure for SQL Server that will create a PDF file without having a PDF printer driver. It should eb able to be adapted to Access. Robert At 09:17 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris >Manning >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to >a PDF file... > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue May 25 09:45:23 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:45:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525093845.0173adf8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <000b01c44267$89588100$9111758f@aine> Robert Any change of seeing that procedure either on or of list?? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs > Why not? I have a stored procedure for SQL Server that will create a PDF > file without having a PDF printer driver. It should eb able to be adapted > to Access. > > Robert > > At 09:17 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris > >Manning > >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > > > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to > >a PDF file... > > > >Doris Manning > >Database Administrator > >Hargrove Inc. > >www.hargroveinc.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue May 25 10:05:41 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:05:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9DE@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Funny I was just going to ask the same thing. Does this require any third party tools? Does it provide formatting? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: PDFs Robert Any change of seeing that procedure either on or of list?? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs > Why not? I have a stored procedure for SQL Server that will create a PDF > file without having a PDF printer driver. It should eb able to be adapted > to Access. > > Robert > > At 09:17 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris > >Manning > >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > > > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to > >a PDF file... > > > >Doris Manning > >Database Administrator > >Hargrove Inc. > >www.hargroveinc.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:17:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:17:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: I believe you have to have CDO installed to make that work, do you not? Since CDO isn't installed automatically, even with Outlook, that could be problematic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Don't know if this was solved or not but this does the trick. Here's part of my VB code wich attaches a file to an e-mail. It makes use of the MAPISESSION component : frmMain.MAPISession1.UserName = ProfileName frmMain.MAPISession1.NewSession = True frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOn With frmMain.MAPIMessages1 .SessionID = frmMain.MAPISession1.SessionID .Compose .MsgIndex = -1 .RecipAddress = Recip .ResolveName .MsgSubject = strMail_Titel .MsgNoteText = NoteText If Bestand <> "" Then .AttachmentIndex = .AttachmentCount .AttachmentPathName = Bestand .AttachmentType = mapData .AttachmentPosition = Len(.MsgNoteText) - 1 .AttachmentName = Bestand End If .Send End With frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOff frmMain.MAPIMessages1.SessionID = -1 SendMailOrder = True LogStatus "Mail verstuurd (" & strMail_Titel & ")" Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:23:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:23:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: What do you mean by "logically correct", Arthur. Are you talking 3NF? If so, I tend to agree. But what about 5NF or even further? Data warehousing isn't exactly an OLAP app, but its purpose and usage requires some denormalized tables, or at least 1NF tables, in many cases. Are you saying that is wrong? If speed is an issue, then there are arguments in favor of some "denormalization" particularly in slow network environments. IMO the answer is "it depends." Extreme normalization can be just as bad (and a lot slower) than denormalization, so which is wrong? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I have never yet seen a case where denormalization is correct, except in OLAP apps, which are fundamentally different that OLTP apps. I have been overruled by higher-ups on this point several times, and never once been convinced of their correctness. Show me a case in an OLTP app where denormalization is correct, and demonstrate why it is correct as opposed to the "logically correct" model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:28:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:28:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to the conf list? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, California 1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. 2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd 3. Who would be attending? 4. Who would like to present? 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? 6. Who has a projector we can use? JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:29:56 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:29:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Suggest an alias? Charlotte Fo -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:32:21 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:32:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I don't recall, John. Once I ran into it (and I believe it was a known issue at the time), I avoided that situation. Whether it still occurs or not is up to someone else to demonstrate. As a true believer, I abstain from that design. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Interesting. Is this a known bug? How did you discover that was the issue? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:46:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:46:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Yep. It is not a big deal. Expanding a text field may be a HUGE deal. It cannot be done unless everyone is out of that table. So I have to (potentially) go boot all the users, and in the case of my current client REBOOT THE DAMN SERVER (because the lock file is getting mangled all the time). All to change a text field with artificial limits. It isn't like the db USES 255 characters, it just ALLOWS 255 characters. It is NOT my business to tell the user they cannot enter valid data in a field. If the business rules CLEARLY STATE that I need to do that then I do, else I don't. I have never seen a business rule that said the address1 (address2, last name, take your pick) had to be some arbitrary fixed length. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue May 25 10:46:32 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:46:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <40B36A58.5000007@verizon.net> Not ADD, but I do always ask that question, can there ever be more than one. I generally have always stopped at 3rd Normal Form + Boyce Codd, where parts of the database do get fully normalized and others (for performance) do not. Robert L. Stewart wrote On 5/25/2004 7:37 AM: > Arthur, > > I agree in part with you. One thing that no one has said that I think > is essential to "good" database design is imagination. And, you are > correct in that there really is only one "perfect" design, with many > that are close, and even more that are flawed. I think that the > imagination is where the "art" comes in. There is nothing more > artistic than a nice E size plot of a good database design. ;-) > > Most db designers will not go past 3rd normal form. Sorry guys, but > that falls into the "close" category. There is a reason that there is > 6 normal forms defined. 1 - 5 and Boyce-Codd. > > Sometimes the "art" is in how we ask the questions to determine the > correct design. I have a friend that is extremely good at OLAP > design. He was working with me on an OLTP system. When I sketched > out the design, he looked at it and said, "Yeah, it looks right, but > how did you get there?" When I explained all the steps that I went > through in my head, he was amazed at the jumps that I make in the > design mentally. Art? Maybe, or maybe just a different way of thinking. > > The other thing that I told him is that I had reduced all of the 5 > numbered normal forms to a single question. "Can there ever be more > than one?" If the answer is not "No," then you need another table. > Following this faithfully will get you fully normalized. He thought > about this over the weekend, thinking that I had simplified it too > much. He went and read the requirements for each normal form. When > he came back on Monday, he said that he could not find an instance > where my way of thinking about design would not work. > > Maybe the art is in the questions we ask to get the design we get. I > like to think that at least a little of what I do is art and not just > pure logic. :-)) Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I am ADD. > > Might be some good questions... > > How many of you that consider yourselves good programmers are ADD? > > How many of you that consider yourselves good db architects are ADD? > > Robert > > P.S. I think that this has been a great discussion. It shows the > diversity of opinions from an educated group of developers. > > At 06:21 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 >> From: "Arthur Fuller" >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0 at rock> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to >> persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a >> bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you >> f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read >> you. >> >> I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. >> >> Arthur > > > -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Tue May 25 10:50:22 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:50:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B36B3E.8030407@verizon.net> I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:54:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:54:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. Which is fine. How do you know when it will be greater than 255? Some limit must be determined, otherwise we should just set all the fields to memo, because in the future someone may want to make a change. Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:57:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:57:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >You don't. Exactly, I DON'T. I allow them to enter whatever they need. >The user does or they call you and you fix the issue. No, the user calls YOU. I allow the user to enter whatever they need. >How often is this going to happen? Never. I let the user enter whatever they need! >Are we talking about .01% of the data entry on that field? Waaaaaaay less than that because I allow the user to enter whatever they need. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? You don't. The user does or they call you and you fix the issue. How often is this going to happen? Are we talking about .01% of the data entry on that field? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 11:01:22 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:01:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: What your saying is sort of like making an integer variable and limiting the values to only 10 and then later on changing the allowable values to 15. Right? I know the db doesn't use the 255 characters(unless needed). You are still limiting the amount in the FE, correct? Otherwise I don't agree. I put limits on these things to prevent "Good Users" from doing "Bad Things". Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Yep. It is not a big deal. Expanding a text field may be a HUGE deal. It cannot be done unless everyone is out of that table. So I have to (potentially) go boot all the users, and in the case of my current client REBOOT THE DAMN SERVER (because the lock file is getting mangled all the time). All to change a text field with artificial limits. It isn't like the db USES 255 characters, it just ALLOWS 255 characters. It is NOT my business to tell the user they cannot enter valid data in a field. If the business rules CLEARLY STATE that I need to do that then I do, else I don't. I have never seen a business rule that said the address1 (address2, last name, take your pick) had to be some arbitrary fixed length. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 11:06:34 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:06:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. Which is fine. How do you know when it will be greater than 255? Some limit must be determined, otherwise we should just set all the fields to memo, because in the future someone may want to make a change. Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 25 11:11:14 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:11:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <40B37022.3090500@shaw.ca> Maybe you don't have ADD but something genetically and symptomatically similar, Asperger's Syndrome. It is quite common to find people with this in certain job areas, Microsoft and IBM have both noticed this trait with people at their research sites. Robert L. Stewart wrote: > Arthur, > > I agree in part with you. One thing that no one has said that I think > is essential to "good" database design is imagination. And, you are > correct in that there really is only one "perfect" design, with many > that are close, and even more that are flawed. I think that the > imagination is where the "art" comes in. There is nothing more > artistic than a nice E size plot of a good database design. ;-) > > Most db designers will not go past 3rd normal form. Sorry guys, but > that falls into the "close" category. There is a reason that there is > 6 normal forms defined. 1 - 5 and Boyce-Codd. > > Sometimes the "art" is in how we ask the questions to determine the > correct design. I have a friend that is extremely good at OLAP > design. He was working with me on an OLTP system. When I sketched > out the design, he looked at it and said, "Yeah, it looks right, but > how did you get there?" When I explained all the steps that I went > through in my head, he was amazed at the jumps that I make in the > design mentally. Art? Maybe, or maybe just a different way of thinking. > > The other thing that I told him is that I had reduced all of the 5 > numbered normal forms to a single question. "Can there ever be more > than one?" If the answer is not "No," then you need another table. > Following this faithfully will get you fully normalized. He thought > about this over the weekend, thinking that I had simplified it too > much. He went and read the requirements for each normal form. When > he came back on Monday, he said that he could not find an instance > where my way of thinking about design would not work. > > Maybe the art is in the questions we ask to get the design we get. I > like to think that at least a little of what I do is art and not just > pure logic. :-)) Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I am ADD. > > Might be some good questions... > > How many of you that consider yourselves good programmers are ADD? > > How many of you that consider yourselves good db architects are ADD? > > Robert > > P.S. I think that this has been a great discussion. It shows the > diversity of opinions from an educated group of developers. > > At 06:21 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 >> From: "Arthur Fuller" >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0 at rock> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to >> persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a >> bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you >> f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read >> you. >> >> I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. >> >> Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 11:21:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:21:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF3F@main2.marlow.com> Very well put. I hope this stays calm though, I sense tempers arising....then again, I haven't had very much coffee, so I may just be looking for a fight to wake up! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Tue May 25 11:30:35 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:30:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4C@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" I need it as a value "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 export keeps chopping the the data to "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > You could try to format your field in the query with a format > function ala > > Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" > > Gary Kjos > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: > >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > > > >Hi; > >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. > Numbers with 4 > >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in > >text file as 2.32. > > > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. > >Martin > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Tue May 25 11:32:46 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:32:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC4C@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Yup, they are perfect candidates for colbyization. The sad thing is beginning coders take that stuff to be gospel. A lot of it is truly awful. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Ahhh, the summer internships. To be frank, their example code pretty much sucks. Ditto for their example databases, at least as far as structure goes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Remember speed govenors on cars learning drivers used to have before they were finally given their license? Maybe a nanny screen(s) that pop up saying in effect here is a better way to build this table, query, etc.. Kind of just-in-time lessons. OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:40:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Much like suggesting setting everything to variant to cover the bases. The difference is that there is (often) a huge downside to using only variants, there is little (or no) downside to using 255 character strings. Setting text fields to specific widths in a db comes from the old databases where the databases REQUIRED that because they physically set aside the space in the db. Access doesn't do that. The purpose was not to "enforce rules", it was to conserve very limited disk and memory space. Access doesn't do things that way so the "reason" to do that ceases to be valid. Like most things in life, the reason gets lost in the mists of time and become embedded in the "rules". I read a very funny story once. A woman was teaching her young daughter how to cook a ham. The mom's instructions were to cut the end off the ham, add the glaze, etc etc. The daughter asks "why do we cut the end off the ham". Mom replies... uhhh... I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask my mom. Grandma says ... uh... I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask great grandma. Great grandma says "You don't need to cut the end off the ham. I just did that because I only had a short pan and I needed to make the ham fit". Question EVERYTHING! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know those limitations. I was making a point. Much like suggesting setting everything to variant to cover the bases. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 11:54:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:54:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF42@main2.marlow.com> What is art anyhow? Art is simply the manipulation of known sciences. I was a music major in college. (For a time). I played trombone, and was on a jazz scholarship. Got to meet lots of people in the jazz world. It was neat. But I turned my love of math (which is what music is based on), into a passion for computers. To me they are very similar. I was a good musician, but I was never able to 'improvise' very well, at least I didn't like what I would improvise. However, I do like what I can 'improvise' on a computer. Science, engineering, art, etc, all work on systems with rules. When you are building a bridge, you have all sorts of factors that are involved, and modern engineers have tons and tons of experience to overcome the normal mundane issues. However, science, engineering and art are also expanding. This isn't done strictly through building upon past experience. Every so often an 'out of the box' solution is required, and when it arrives, that is when science, engineering, and art are alike. Granted, when I have to display records on a web page, or create a data entry form, those are pretty mundane, cut and dry processes. However, when I built the archives for the AccessD list, and found searching through the memo fields to be too lengthy of a process, I built the memo field indexer. That was something I considered art. Sure, it uses the same 'tools' that the mundane processes use, but it was (if I may say so) 'Out of the box' thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read you. I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would > agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong > way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, > and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one > very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a > good artist is going to draw something that is immediately > recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can > take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db > design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing > something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, > stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' > media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% > science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as > auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be > compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the > database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published > poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, > tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the > connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. > Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not > much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is > strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, > a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of > incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific > theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a > art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an > artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American > "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected > guerrillas in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, > Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly > the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test > it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the > forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the > normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the > new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the > users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work > like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting > the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several > weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep > the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the > database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db > running until I could throw the switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was > very nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to > put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide > the women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from > the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT > the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in > self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side > of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to > me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly > over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when > Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several > years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was > happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the > office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. > It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational > databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong > except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since > gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually > discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule > than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer > numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access > databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than > developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group > recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating > around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my > company we have several people who know a lot about the business but > only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to > produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of > Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day > basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product > was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the > product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list > that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact > remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of > its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this > mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble > not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get > their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph > into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity > to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid > results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off > into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. > So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be > given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease > the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer > maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we > should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even > harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not > realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the > development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain > about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all > are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at > building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper > where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine > what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to > smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners > IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements > could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth > the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you > the department needs such and such, and you're not a database > developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with > crap from a developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, > but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know > that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it > happens a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to > get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even > have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 11:55:31 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:55:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <279160-220045225165531564@christopherhawkins.com> I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 11:56:06 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:56:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <322680-22004522516566955@christopherhawkins.com> P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 12:03:36 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:03:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <258780-22004522517336320@christopherhawkins.com> I agree with Scott. Never be afraid to fire a troublesome client. In my experience, the void always fills with higher-quality business. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: marcus at tsstech.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:43:29 -0400 >Stephen, > >Right or wrong, your contract with the client determines who pays. >Are you working by the hour or by the project? > >If the client won't pay for your time when they agree to pay by the >hour, that would be them breaking the contract. These are the type >of clients you should get rid of if possible. You must weigh the >benefits of keeping the contract vs. free work. Such is the nature >of contract work. > >Scott Marcus >TSS Technologies, Inc. >marcus at tsstech.com >(513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Pickering, Stephen >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:28 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > >Great points, Stuart. Plus, there's the explanations and >documentation of >the changes. And the clients who don't want to pay for the >modifications, >even when they prescribe the changes. > >I once had a client that requested a very complex report. After >doing the >analysis, documenting the business rules, and discussing the >mock-ups, I >wrote the report. > >The client said the report wasn't right, that the calculations were >wrong. >So, I went over the business rule document with the client, and the >client >changed several rules. Of course, the client said these weren't >changes >-- I had gotten it wrong. > >So I re-did the business rules, and gave them the new report. >Again, it >was "wrong". Again, we went over the business rules. Again, I >revised >the report. > >This went through several iterations. Each time it was wrong, and >it was >my fault because I just didn't understand the business rules, or >didn't >get them right, according to the client. > >The last time they revised (or "corrected") the business rules, the >new >calculations looked familiar. Sure enough, the business rules now >set by >the client were the original business rules from the very first >iteration >of the report. > >I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them >that >we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business >rules >this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good >laugh, and >learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my >fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should >have >gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to >them. > >I learned a valuable lesson. I quit consulting and went back into >Corporate America. The client is a little more understanding when >it's >yourself. > >Don't assume that the client will pay for any and all changes they >request >down the road. Some will, but some will always try to get something >for >nothing. > >Steve > >-----Stuart McLachlan's Original Message----- > >On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > >> >> Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state >> abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, >I'll >> make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. >> > >And who pays for that work to be done? > >Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that >shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time >yourself. > >What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different >places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the >sites. > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 12:03:52 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:03:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs In-Reply-To: <200405251611.i4PGBqQ06394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525120331.017da800@pop3.highstream.net> Those that want it, please contact me off list. At 11:11 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:45:23 +0100 >From: "Martin Reid" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: PDFs >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: <000b01c44267$89588100$9111758f at aine> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Robert > >Any change of seeing that procedure either on or of list?? > >Martin From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 12:05:02 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:05:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs In-Reply-To: <200405251611.i4PGBqQ06394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525120414.01744890@pop3.highstream.net> It is limited to 8.5 x 11 and portrait. But you should be able to figure things out to make to work with any size. At 11:11 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:05:41 -0400 >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: PDFs >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9DE at TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Funny I was just going to ask the same thing. Does this require any third >party tools? Does it provide formatting? > >Jim DeMarco From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 12:06:38 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:06:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Message-ID: <296440-22004522517638947@christopherhawkins.com> I managed to use the list's feedback to cobble together a solution to my Access-to-PDF problem. I'll post the code when I get to the office. Maybe it will help. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: mikedorism at adelphia.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:23:40 -0400 >It isn't in a sense... Think about it... If you export a report to >Excel, >you don't print the whole report to Excel. > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >Lawrence >(AccessD) >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:27 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Is not that basically the same thing? > >Just wondering >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & >Doris >Manning >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically >print it to >a PDF file... > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin >Reid >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly >to PDF? >Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a >PDF file >and open that instead. > >Martin > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 12:05:56 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:05:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I wouldn't suggest that setting text fields to a length of 255 is incorrect except where length is part of a validation rule that you want to enforce at the database table level. However, designing a table with fields whose total allowable size exceeds a size that can be saved and not taking steps to validate and handle an oversize record is bad design. Neglecting to provide the user with a meaningful error message and allowing him to choose which fields to truncate or at least dumping all his text into a memo field with notification that certain fields were arbitrarily truncated (if that is how you handle it) is a failure to properly design an application. Developers need to be aware of limitations and need to handle them, either in an error handler or in this instance, by providing additional one to one tables to allow for the full size of record possible. I have found that users don't report all errors and many developers do not use an error log to track actual issues. Then there are those who blithely throw in an 'On Error Resume Next' and blame failed entries on users. It is not terribly difficult to bind a text display control alternately to memo field or to a text field as required, though it is more problematic in a continuous form. It is usually sufficient to set an unbound text field to display the concatenated contents of two bound fields that are hidden and set their contents in code in the after update of the unbound display/input control. I have found that leaving the first 20 characters in the text field and everything after the first 20 in the memo field, when it is required, allows one to kind of sort and index on the text field even though it may it operates functionally as a memo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 12:07:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:07:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF43@main2.marlow.com> It was an unexpected anamoly. I don't want to take this on a completely different tangent, but to answer your question, I'll have to get into my 'error handling' techniques a bit. Quite frankly, I rarely use error handling. Before I get completely blasted off the List, let me explain. I don't use error handling very often, because a large majority of my systems reside 'in house'. I intentionally use error handling when I need it for 'expected errors', ie, if I want to see if something is in a collection, I try to 'grab' it, if it errors, I know it doesn't exist. Also, when writing VB Services, I use complete error handling (creating VB Services without errorhandling on every process can be detrimental to your systems). I also include error handling in my VB .dll's that interact with ASP (most of the time). Now, to finish up, before I am flamed, I only do this for projects I have in my 'sphere' of influence. I want to actually code around issues that arise. However, if something is going out the door, ie leaving my sphere of influence, then I do use error handling. With that explained, the 'AccessD Indexer' is a VB Service. Thus it is error handled at every step. However, all I have the error handling doing, is reporting to the Event Handler (so messages show up in the Application Events log). I flip flop a bit on VB services, depending on what I need them to do. If it's a 'mission critical' system, where it needs to be running no matter what, then I create 'never surrender' error handling. It logs it, tries to deal with anything it can, then keeps chugging. On those systems, I usually have it email me when an error occurs, so I don't let a program just run away. If it's not mission critical, or if it must following a step by step process, then I use fall over handling, where if an error occurs, it just stops, and usually emails me. The Indexer was this way. I actually didn't change any of the code, but went back into the index dbs, and changed the field size to 255. Did that answer your question? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Why wouldn't you write code to handle this exception? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 12:15:19 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:15:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251611.i4PGBqQ06394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525121345.04d34308@pop3.highstream.net> I really don't think so... Asperger Syndrome or (Asperger's Disorder) is a neurobiological disorder named for a Viennese physician, Hans Asperger, who in 1944 published a paper which described a pattern of behaviors in several young boys who had normal intelligence and language development, but who also exhibited autistic-like behaviors and marked deficiencies in social and communication skills. In spite of the publication of his paper in the 1940's, it wasn't until 1994 that Asperger Syndrome was added to the DSM IV and only in the past few years has AS been recognized by professionals and parents. Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting". By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naivet?, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context. At this time there is a great deal of debate as to exactly where AS fits. It is presently described as an autism spectrum disorder and Uta Frith, in her book AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, described AS individuals as "having a dash of Autism". Some professionals feel that AS is the same as High Functioning Autism, while others feel that it is better described as a Nonverbal Learning Disability. AS shares many of the characteristics of PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder; Not otherwise specified), HFA, and NLD and because it was virtually unknown until a few years ago, many individuals either received an incorrect diagnosis or remained undiagnosed. For example, it is not at all uncommon for a child who was initially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD be re-diagnosed with AS. In addition, some individuals who were originally diagnosed with HFA or PDD-NOS are now being given the AS diagnosis and many individuals have a dual diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism. Seems to be a form of Autism. I'll stick with the ADD. :-) At 11:11 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:11:14 -0700 >From: MartyConnelly >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <40B37022.3090500 at shaw.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii > >Maybe you don't have ADD but something genetically and symptomatically >similar, Asperger's Syndrome. It is quite common to find people with >this in certain job areas, Microsoft and IBM have both noticed this >trait with people at their research sites. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 12:17:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:17:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Drew, I thought it was odd that your indexer would just crash (or maybe I'm not understanding) because of size limits. On another note about error handling: What happens when you walk out the door (not the applications you wrote) and there is no error handling? You're right, you'll probably get flamed big time for admitting this, so I'll leave you alone on it. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It was an unexpected anamoly. I don't want to take this on a completely different tangent, but to answer your question, I'll have to get into my 'error handling' techniques a bit. Quite frankly, I rarely use error handling. Before I get completely blasted off the List, let me explain. I don't use error handling very often, because a large majority of my systems reside 'in house'. I intentionally use error handling when I need it for 'expected errors', ie, if I want to see if something is in a collection, I try to 'grab' it, if it errors, I know it doesn't exist. Also, when writing VB Services, I use complete error handling (creating VB Services without errorhandling on every process can be detrimental to your systems). I also include error handling in my VB .dll's that interact with ASP (most of the time). Now, to finish up, before I am flamed, I only do this for projects I have in my 'sphere' of influence. I want to actually code around issues that arise. However, if something is going out the door, ie leaving my sphere of influence, then I do use error handling. With that explained, the 'AccessD Indexer' is a VB Service. Thus it is error handled at every step. However, all I have the error handling doing, is reporting to the Event Handler (so messages show up in the Application Events log). I flip flop a bit on VB services, depending on what I need them to do. If it's a 'mission critical' system, where it needs to be running no matter what, then I create 'never surrender' error handling. It logs it, tries to deal with anything it can, then keeps chugging. On those systems, I usually have it email me when an error occurs, so I don't let a program just run away. If it's not mission critical, or if it must following a step by step process, then I use fall over handling, where if an error occurs, it just stops, and usually emails me. The Indexer was this way. I actually didn't change any of the code, but went back into the index dbs, and changed the field size to 255. Did that answer your question? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Why wouldn't you write code to handle this exception? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 12:24:20 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:24:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <279160-220045225165531564@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4427d$20eface0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> They are. I can only help the relatively locals. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 12:26:31 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:26:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <40B36B3E.8030407@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000b01c4427d$6ef08c20$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 12:31:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:31:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 12:33:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:33:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I put limits on these things to prevent "Good Users" from doing "Bad Things". Shades of Marshal Dillon. I design databases, I am not the Sheriff. What is bad to you may be perfectly legal and necessary to your user. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various What your saying is sort of like making an integer variable and limiting the values to only 10 and then later on changing the allowable values to 15. Right? I know the db doesn't use the 255 characters(unless needed). You are still limiting the amount in the FE, correct? Otherwise I don't agree. I put limits on these things to prevent "Good Users" from doing "Bad Things". Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Yep. It is not a big deal. Expanding a text field may be a HUGE deal. It cannot be done unless everyone is out of that table. So I have to (potentially) go boot all the users, and in the case of my current client REBOOT THE DAMN SERVER (because the lock file is getting mangled all the time). All to change a text field with artificial limits. It isn't like the db USES 255 characters, it just ALLOWS 255 characters. It is NOT my business to tell the user they cannot enter valid data in a field. If the business rules CLEARLY STATE that I need to do that then I do, else I don't. I have never seen a business rule that said the address1 (address2, last name, take your pick) had to be some arbitrary fixed length. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 12:35:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:35:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Just messing with you, John. Now THAT is a valid reason for limiting my last name field to 3 characters. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a That's why you have address line 2. Just messing with you, John. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 12:37:41 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:37:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 12:41:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:41:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF46@main2.marlow.com> No, just stops. Well, it did. Now it will stop if a word goes over 255 characters. Let's not test it thought, cause I don't want to have to build it to handle more then 255 characters per word. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Tue May 25 12:42:11 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:42:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 12:44:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:44:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF47@main2.marlow.com> I would. However, if they increased the size of a text field, it would probably be 65534 characters (255 squared, minus 2). Of course, that would run into the page size, so they would need to expand that too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 12:53:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:53:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Why don't you just truncate the indexing? What words are you indexing that are over 100 characters. There certainly can't be that many. I wouldn't mind if the results for searching were less accurate for these larger words as long as I get back more results and not less results. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, just stops. Well, it did. Now it will stop if a word goes over 255 characters. Let's not test it thought, cause I don't want to have to build it to handle more then 255 characters per word. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 13:00:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF48@main2.marlow.com> I don't know Gustav, I don't charge my clients if I think I should have programmed something differently. Just recently, I wrote a PO and an Inventory system as a sub contract job. System works great, until they used part descriptions that had double quotes in them. It was a simple fix, had two SQL strings where I just wrapped the offending field in a Replace statement. Problem solved, and no charge (to the actual 'contractor'). Why? Because I guarantee my work. They asked for a system, and I met their specs. My system failed on something that was not outside of the original specs. So, if I write a system that limits a field to 20 characters, because I am 'guessing' that is all they'll ever need, and one day they come back and say, hey, your system won't let us put in the data we need to put in, I would could consider that a warrantee job, because I put a limit that the customer didn't ask for. Now, if the customer puts in their specs, that a particular field is not to go over 20 characters, well, honestly, I wouldn't limit the field, still, I would just force the interface to not allow more then 20 characters. Again, I usually write ASP front ends, so in this case, I would have the code, that enters or modifies the data in the db, use a Left(strXYZ,20) statement, to chunk anything over that shows to be longer then 20 characters. If the client later changes the requirement to 25 characters, I just change my code to allow for more characters, and bill them for the change. It is also a different world with web clients. Something I better bring up. It is a LOT easier to change your code, then to make structural changes in a web database. Code changes can be made to a live system, with little to no interruption. (If it's using ActiveX .dll's, there is going to be a few seconds of down time, to release the old .dll, and replace it with the new one). If it's using just ASP, there is absolutely no down time, the next person to use the system after the update gets the new page. However, it is a rare case that you have direct access to the webserver, and even rarer that it would have Microsoft Access on it. So you either write some complex SQL statements to create a temp table with the change, delete the old table, and then create a new one in it's place with the temp table's data. OR, you turn their webserver off, download the database, make your change, and upload it back....can take a while depending on the size of the db. You'd have to turn their webserver off, because if you copy the 'new' db over the old one, and someone has used the system in the meantime, you are now replacing the current db with a new structure, but out of date data. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi Stuart well, you and several contributors to this thread - with Arthur and Scott as the bright exceptions - should join a club of weeping school girls. Now come on and get professional as is the general attitude of our fellow listers. If you design an app wrongly, you'll of course have to fix it; if some standard is changed, say postal codes for a country goes from x to y format and you couldn't know, the client has to pay. If your app is out in big numbers, you would offer an update. Since when has distributing an update been a problem? /gustav > On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: >> >> Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state >> abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll >> make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. >> > And who pays for that work to be done? > Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that > shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time > yourself. > What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different > places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the > sites. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 13:08:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:08:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF49@main2.marlow.com> I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue May 25 13:27:29 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:27:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> List, We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? TIA Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 13:29:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:29:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. Not true, arbitrary implies flipping a coin and taking whatever comes down. I am in no way doing that. I am making an informed choice between two data types. Memos have many problems that I don't want to deal with if I don't have to. If I had the choice of using a 4K text field I would (probably). Here is the (original) argument (as I read it) "I want to be able to display all of the data that the user is able to enter. So if I can only display 20 characters I limit the user to 20 characters." Now tell me, is that a valid reason to set a limit to a field size? Not in my book. If he can only display 10 characters for the last name he sets the text field to 10? If only 5 then he sets it to 5? Whose data is this anyway? This whole argument is simply silly. You are choosing some number, out of thin air, no validation testing, no mathematical proof that the size you are setting is 99.9% of all the instances the user wishes to enter. Just a number, grabbed out of thin air, that is what YOU decide the data should fit in. Flip a coin, pull a number out of a hat, spin a roulette wheel. I am making a decision between 2 choices, a data type of 255 characters or a data type of 32K. I then look at the expected data and if there is a reasonable use for the memo I use it. Your choices are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...255 characters. But there is no specific reason for 2 instead of 3, or 4 instead of 6, just "what you think "should" work". Pick one at random (and attempt to validate your reasons so that you are comfortable) then run around expanding the number when it is not a good choice. I personally don't care if you do that but to tell me that I am using bad programming practices because I don't make such capricious and arbitrary decisions is a bit of an insult wouldn't you say? And FINALLY, notice that you are studiously avoiding any talk of business analysis. I have stated over and over that if there is a BUSINESS reason for limiting a field length then I would do so. "My address fields are limited to 25 characters" is NOT a business rule. "I limit the field to the size I can display" is CERTAINLY not a business rule. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 13:40:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 13:44:53 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Support at CorporateDataDesign.com Tue May 25 13:46:30 2004 From: Support at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:46:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] News: Access 2003 conversion kit In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF47@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001f01c44288$97e92140$6501a8c0@OFFICEXP1> FYI, http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1599387,00.asp John Skolits From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 13:47:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:47:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: Numbers don't have leading zeroes unless they are formatted as strings. What's the difference between 0444 and 0.4375? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:31 AM To: Accessd Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" I need it as a value "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 export keeps chopping the the data to "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > You could try to format your field in the query with a format > function ala > > Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" > > Gary Kjos > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: > >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > > > >Hi; > >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. > Numbers with 4 > >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in > >text file as 2.32. > > > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. > >Martin > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 13:48:23 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:48:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Your decision isn't based on a business rule either. The 255 limit is because you don't want to program around a memo. Your right that this discussion is silly, because 10 e-mails ago I had already decided when to use the 255 method and when not. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. Not true, arbitrary implies flipping a coin and taking whatever comes down. I am in no way doing that. I am making an informed choice between two data types. Memos have many problems that I don't want to deal with if I don't have to. If I had the choice of using a 4K text field I would (probably). Here is the (original) argument (as I read it) "I want to be able to display all of the data that the user is able to enter. So if I can only display 20 characters I limit the user to 20 characters." Now tell me, is that a valid reason to set a limit to a field size? Not in my book. If he can only display 10 characters for the last name he sets the text field to 10? If only 5 then he sets it to 5? Whose data is this anyway? This whole argument is simply silly. You are choosing some number, out of thin air, no validation testing, no mathematical proof that the size you are setting is 99.9% of all the instances the user wishes to enter. Just a number, grabbed out of thin air, that is what YOU decide the data should fit in. Flip a coin, pull a number out of a hat, spin a roulette wheel. I am making a decision between 2 choices, a data type of 255 characters or a data type of 32K. I then look at the expected data and if there is a reasonable use for the memo I use it. Your choices are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...255 characters. But there is no specific reason for 2 instead of 3, or 4 instead of 6, just "what you think "should" work". Pick one at random (and attempt to validate your reasons so that you are comfortable) then run around expanding the number when it is not a good choice. I personally don't care if you do that but to tell me that I am using bad programming practices because I don't make such capricious and arbitrary decisions is a bit of an insult wouldn't you say? And FINALLY, notice that you are studiously avoiding any talk of business analysis. I have stated over and over that if there is a BUSINESS reason for limiting a field length then I would do so. "My address fields are limited to 25 characters" is NOT a business rule. "I limit the field to the size I can display" is CERTAINLY not a business rule. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Tue May 25 14:20:07 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:20:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B6F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> The example; "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 The first 'field', "0444", is a string specification for an import - same for 2-5. Fields 6 and 8, 536.00 and 0.4375 are numbers except the access export chops the second number to 0.43 in the resulting txt file. > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > Numbers don't have leading zeroes unless they are formatted > as strings. What's the difference between 0444 and 0.4375? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:31 AM > To: Accessd > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this > > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" > > I need it as a value > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 > > export keeps chopping the the data to > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 > > -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:23 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > > > > You could try to format your field in the query with a > format function > > ala > > > > Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" > > > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: > > >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > > > > > >Hi; > > >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. > > Numbers with 4 > > >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 > shows up in > > >text file as 2.32. > > > > > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. > > >Martin > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue May 25 14:24:00 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:24:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] News: Access 2003 conversion kit References: <001f01c44288$97e92140$6501a8c0@OFFICEXP1> Message-ID: <003f01c4428d$d67a2e90$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> They are also developing many whitepapers on moving Access to SQL Server. A whole raft of them are currently being completed. Looks like 2003 isnt all they want Access moved to!!! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Skolits" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: [AccessD] News: Access 2003 conversion kit > > FYI, > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1599387,00.asp > > John Skolits > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 14:25:01 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:25:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251845.i4PIjOQ19926@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525142121.017a8df8@pop3.highstream.net> John and all, I have been reading this and wow, you guys need to snip out the old so we do not have these massive emails with everything in them. John, there is only one point that I would have to disagree with you on. That is if you defined a table that COULD hold more that the bytes allowed per record. That would be a no-no. And, before you go there, I had one of the SIG members from my developer's SIG do just that. We ended up splitting it up into 3 tables with 1-to-1 relationships. Robert At 01:45 PM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:29:20 -0400 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. > >Not true, arbitrary implies flipping a coin and taking whatever comes down. >I am in no way doing that. I am making an informed choice between two data >types. Memos have many problems that I don't want to deal with if I don't >have to. If I had the choice of using a 4K text field I would (probably). > >Here is the (original) argument (as I read it) > >"I want to be able to display all of the data that the user is able to >enter. So if I can only display 20 characters I limit the user to 20 >characters." > >Now tell me, is that a valid reason to set a limit to a field size? Not in >my book. If he can only display 10 characters for the last name he sets the >text field to 10? If only 5 then he sets it to 5? Whose data is this >anyway? > >This whole argument is simply silly. You are choosing some number, out of >thin air, no validation testing, no mathematical proof that the size you are >setting is 99.9% of all the instances the user wishes to enter. Just a >number, grabbed out of thin air, that is what YOU decide the data should fit >in. Flip a coin, pull a number out of a hat, spin a roulette wheel. > >I am making a decision between 2 choices, a data type of 255 characters or a >data type of 32K. I then look at the expected data and if there is a >reasonable use for the memo I use it. > >Your choices are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...255 characters. But there is no >specific reason for 2 instead of 3, or 4 instead of 6, just "what you think >"should" work". > >Pick one at random (and attempt to validate your reasons so that you are >comfortable) then run around expanding the number when it is not a good >choice. > >I personally don't care if you do that but to tell me that I am using bad >programming practices because I don't make such capricious and arbitrary >decisions is a bit of an insult wouldn't you say? > >And FINALLY, notice that you are studiously avoiding any talk of business >analysis. I have stated over and over that if there is a BUSINESS reason >for limiting a field length then I would do so. "My address fields are >limited to 25 characters" is NOT a business rule. "I limit the field to the >size I can display" is CERTAINLY not a business rule. > >John W. Colby From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 14:26:29 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:26:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251845.i4PIjOQ19926@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525142543.017fcec8@pop3.highstream.net> Right Charlotte, I believe that is why they call them rules. :-)) At 01:45 PM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:37 -0700 >From: "Charlotte Foust" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control >them. The client just applies penalties. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients >data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control >THEIR users. That's up to them to do. > >Drew From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 14:32:03 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:32:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Thoughts on Access97 Replication Message-ID: To help with overall network traffic and responsiveness of the FE, I've been considering use of replication of the BE on client machines. Anyone doing this? Seems to be working OK so far but what kind of gotchas do I need to know about. I'm pretty familiar with replication(technically), I just haven't used it much and for a while. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue May 25 14:32:30 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:32:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <004201c4428f$04e7e780$6601a8c0@rock> Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 25 14:33:25 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:33:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040525193322.GKYS1779.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think you could purchase an "opt out" option -- or was that just a request that never made its way to the plan? :) Personally -- you guys really ought to let people attend without forcing them to present -- it's not for everybody. Susan H. Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 14:35:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:35:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Thoughts on Access97 Replication Message-ID: The only big headache I ever ran into was replicating design changes, since they sync before data changes, which can lead to *interesting* results, particularly if you drop a field or table. I always used a 3 level replication scheme, with the workstation replicas created from an intermediate, "hub" replica. That gave me the design master to work on and a fall back when (not if) either the design master went south or the hub did. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Thoughts on Access97 Replication To help with overall network traffic and responsiveness of the FE, I've been considering use of replication of the BE on client machines. Anyone doing this? Seems to be working OK so far but what kind of gotchas do I need to know about. I'm pretty familiar with replication(technically), I just haven't used it much and for a while. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 14:37:43 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:37:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Message-ID: You should see the BE relationships in the FE without creating them there, although the layout may not be pretty. The Enforce RI checkboxes are unavailable in the FE on relationships declared in the BE and on relationships either in the BE or between the FE and BE. Just delete the FE relationships unless you have some on FE tables. The FE inherits relationships from the BE. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 14:39:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:39:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: If there was an opt out, no one told *me*! But hey, there aren't that many of us in the SoCal neighborhood (OK, so I'm 400 miles away), so it was either force presentations or sit around and play cards. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I think you could purchase an "opt out" option -- or was that just a request that never made its way to the plan? :) Personally -- you guys really ought to let people attend without forcing them to present -- it's not for everybody. Susan H. Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue May 25 15:07:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:07:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! In-Reply-To: <004201c4428f$04e7e780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, It's only the BE relationships that count, so you can simply delete them in the FE. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue May 25 15:15:57 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:15:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000b01c4427d$6ef08c20$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> You'd have to ask Bryan. Get him on listmaster at databaseadvisors.com -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht > Sent: 25 May 2004 18:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the > conference list? > > Let all who have interest know I said August or later you > have desire but vacation plans for August. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Francisco H Tapia > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. > -- > -Francisco > > Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: > > >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a > conflict, but I > >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we > take this to > >the conf list? > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks > from the 405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From pedro at plex.nl Tue May 25 15:20:10 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:20:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word References: <40B327AC.6658.BA75C3@localhost> Message-ID: <003b01c44296$1a244a10$f8c581d5@pedro> Hello Stuart and others, i tried to put my code (docproperties) and your code (suffix) together When BezoekrapportID value =1, and saving true code i get as filename Bezoekrapport1_.doc in the right directory. Saving it again nothing happens. Then adjusting the code after Do, changing If Filename .... to If strFilename then saving by code, word crashes. Could you take a look at it again. Thanks Pedro Janssen Sub Bezoekrapport() Dim flgSaved As Boolean Dim strSuffix As String flgSaved = False strSuffix = "" For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties If prop.Name = "BezoekrapportID" Then strFileNamePart = prop.Value Exit For End If Next strFileName = "C:\Werkbrieven Opslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" Do If FileName > " " Then strSuffix = (Val(strSuffix) + 1) Else flgSaved = True ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFileName flgSaved = True End If Loop Until flgSaved End Sub ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] auto save in word > On 24 May 2004 at 21:32, Pedro Janssen wrote: > > > Hello Stuart, > > > > thanks for your help. When a file exists it makes suffixes like _ 1, _ 2 > > etc., but these are saved in My Documents (Dir$???). > > Yes, they would be the way I wrote that aircode :-( > Try: > Document.SaveAs FileName:= > "W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ > & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" > > >Can you give me a hand > > on how to use the doc properties in your code (i placed them in the code, > > but with no result)? > > > Not sure what you are asking for here > > > > For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties > > If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then > > strFileNamePart = prop.Value > > Exit For > > End If > > Next > > This is looking for a custom property called "BezoekRapportID" and > setting strFileNamePart to the value of that property. Have you set > an appropriate Name/Value in the the documents properties under the > "Custom" tab? > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:44:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:44:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4C@main2.marlow.com> It didn't 'crash'. It just stopped. The error handler did grab it, and safely shutdown the service. I have no idea why I didn't set the fields to 255, I just wasn't thinking! LOL If I walk out the door here, and they run into an error, then I get hired back as a consultant! Actually, error handler or not, if an error occurs, and your error handler does nothing more then post the message, if it's an error they want to program around, you are still going to be correcting it. Now, if you could write an error handler to 'fix' every possible error, let me know, that would be a neat trick......or, it would take years to build, and megabytes of mde or exe space! LOl. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Drew, I thought it was odd that your indexer would just crash (or maybe I'm not understanding) because of size limits. On another note about error handling: What happens when you walk out the door (not the applications you wrote) and there is no error handling? You're right, you'll probably get flamed big time for admitting this, so I'll leave you alone on it. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:47:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:47:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4D@main2.marlow.com> No, because 'not limiting the size' isn't changing the data type. Memo fields do not act like text fields. There is a difference. Ever try to group a memo field in a query? Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Let's not cheapen this issue with bad theatrics. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:48:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:48:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4E@main2.marlow.com> Quite frankly wasn't expecting a 'word' to be that long. That's why I didn't truncate it. If we ever hit the 255 mark, I'll dig into the source for that, and truncate it at 255 characters. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Why don't you just truncate the indexing? What words are you indexing that are over 100 characters. There certainly can't be that many. I wouldn't mind if the results for searching were less accurate for these larger words as long as I get back more results and not less results. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, just stops. Well, it did. Now it will stop if a word goes over 255 characters. Let's not test it thought, cause I don't want to have to build it to handle more then 255 characters per word. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:51:31 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:51:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4F@main2.marlow.com> Yes, I can setup a business rule that ensure the client enters data into a field. I can check for characteristics of that data. I just can't guarantee that a user is never going to do something wrong. It's impossible. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue May 25 15:53:50 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:53:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move freely between pages. Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? MArtin From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 16:05:05 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:05:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <42770-2200452252155615@christopherhawkins.com> Even if you present garbage? ;) -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jmhla at earthlink.net >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>California >> >> >> >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >> >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >>405 >>Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >> >>3. Who would be attending? >> >>4. Who would like to present? >> >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >> >>6. Who has a projector we can use? >> >> >> >> >> >>JOE HECHT >> >>LOS ANGELES CA >> >> >> >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 16:09:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Even if you present garbage? ;) -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jmhla at earthlink.net >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>California >> >> >> >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >> >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >> >>3. Who would be attending? >> >>4. Who would like to present? >> >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >> >>6. Who has a projector we can use? >> >> >> >> >> >>JOE HECHT >> >>LOS ANGELES CA >> >> >> >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 16:14:56 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:14:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <37390-220045225211456575@christopherhawkins.com> Who, me? *looking innocent* Heh. I wasn't even there. I will prepare a presentation entitled 'Crap You Already Know How To Do, But Charlotte Said I Had To Present So Here It Is" :P -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 >Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Even if you present garbage? ;) > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > >>Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >> >> >>P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've >done >>anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... >> >>-C- >> >>---- Original Message ---- >>From: jmhla at earthlink.net >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >> >>>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>>California >>> >>> >>> >>>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >>> >>>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from >the >>>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >>> >>>3. Who would be attending? >>> >>>4. Who would like to present? >>> >>>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >>> >>>6. Who has a projector we can use? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>JOE HECHT >>> >>>LOS ANGELES CA >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 16:24:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:24:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: OK, I think that will fit. ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Who, me? *looking innocent* Heh. I wasn't even there. I will prepare a presentation entitled 'Crap You Already Know How To Do, But Charlotte Said I Had To Present So Here It Is" :P -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 >Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Even if you present garbage? ;) > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > >>Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >> >> >>P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've >done >>anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... >> >>-C- >> >>---- Original Message ---- >>From: jmhla at earthlink.net >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >> >>>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>>California >>> >>> >>> >>>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >>> >>>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from >the >>>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >>> >>>3. Who would be attending? >>> >>>4. Who would like to present? >>> >>>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >>> >>>6. Who has a projector we can use? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>JOE HECHT >>> >>>LOS ANGELES CA >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com Tue May 25 16:54:24 2004 From: Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com (Paul Baumann) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:54:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: <5068EFF1BA3C1D4485B77CEC1CBBAAD526228C@farley.rtctech.com> Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? Paul Baumann ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal For more information please visit www.rtctech.com ##################################################################################### From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 16:57:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:57:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Let's not cheapen this issue with bad theatrics. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 17:22:07 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:22:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c442a6$ba8e2a60$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Presenting is not a requirement. I need some people to present to make this work. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 17:23:55 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:23:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: <001701c442a6$fa75b940$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Does someone have a way to record it. There is no web access in the planned room. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Tue May 25 17:29:05 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:29:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD941281A@bross.quiznos.net> docmd.RunCommand acCmdLinkedTableManager Will do it -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? Paul Baumann ############################################################################ ######### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal For more information please visit www.rtctech.com ############################################################################ ######### -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 17:32:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:32:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> I think JC is agreeing with me on this, and I think you have a disconnect on what is a necessary limit, and what is an arbitrary limit. 255 characters is a necessary limit. It is set by the fact that a text field is defined to take up from 1 to 256 bytes. 1 byte is for the size actually stored, the rest leaves up to 255 characters of space. That is built into Jet. The only way around that limit is to either 'join' two or more text fields together (which I have done on RARE occasions), or use a Memo field. Memo fields can hold quite a bit more, however, there are drawbacks with Memo fields. However, the line between when to use one or the other is pretty clear. Is the field in question a data point, or is it a storage bin? In other words, is the field going to represent one particular fact? If it is a single fact, yet it may go over 200 characters, then either a second text field needs to be defined for carryover, or a memo field should be used. 20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but the textbox can be changed with little fuss. Let's say you put gas in your car once a week. Would you only put in the amount you expect to use for the week, or would you completely fill your tank? If you only put in what you expect to use, if something UNEXPECTED happens, you'll run out of gas, which is exactly what you do to your users if you set arbitrary limits. They'll be driving along, cruising down the data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not yours. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Let's not cheapen this issue with bad theatrics. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 18:05:46 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:05:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4C@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: <40B45DEA.12461.5764CC8@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 12:30, Martin Kahelin wrote: > That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this > > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" > > I need it as a value > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 > > export keeps chopping the the data to > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 > > -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > One of the reasons I never use TranferText to do exports. :-) If you roll your own, you can format any way you want. Here's a DAO example (outline, aircode, so will need tweaking) Function Quoted( PlainString) as String Quoted = Chr$(34) & PlainString & CHr$(34) End Function Function ExportQuery() as Long Dim rs as Recordset Dim strExport as String Set rs= CurrentDB.OpenRecordset("myQuery") Open "MyData.csv" for Output as #1 Do While Not rs.eof Print #1, Quoted(rs(0)) & "," & Quoted(rs(1) & "," _ Quoted(rs(2)) & "," & Quoted(rs(3) & "," _ Format(rs(4),"0.00") & "," & rs(5) & "," _ Format(rs(6),"0.0000") Loop Close #1 End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 18:09:24 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:09:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: The linked table manager is an add-in that, in my experience, is not installed by default in 97 and 2000 versions. I have yet to work in an envrionment where this add-in was available when I walked in the door so the DoMenuItem and RunCommand approaches have been of little use. You will be better served in the long run to set the connect property of a tabledef object and then call the refreshlink method of that tabledef object. This is especially true if your users may be in unknown environments. Rolling your own relinking code is not difficult and allows you to simplify the procedure for users by stipulating which tables may be relinked without asking the users to make selections. User 'interference' can get really ugly if you have multiple backend files of varying types in various locations where some may be ISAM, others ODBC and yet others native Access files. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mackin, Christopher" > >docmd.RunCommand acCmdLinkedTableManager > >Will do it > >-Chris Mackin > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:54 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code > > >Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? > >Paul Baumann _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 18:11:14 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Tue May 25 18:12:15 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:12:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question Message-ID: Mental block here ... if I am using a text box to display text in the format ="this is my text" & [text field] & "." how do I use Char13 to cause a carriage return? I am having a mental block and can't for the life of me remember how to do this. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange Ph: 02 6391 3250 Fax:02 6391 3290 This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From my.lists at verizon.net Tue May 25 18:28:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:28:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B3D693.4020003@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! -- -Francisco From Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com Tue May 25 18:18:09 2004 From: Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com (Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:18:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION Message-ID: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got it to run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. The query results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. select Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays from tblPrCas Thanks, Paul ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 18:42:11 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:42:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B46673.28715.597A40F@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 11:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > Like most things in life, the reason gets lost in the mists of time and > become embedded in the "rules". > > I read a very funny story once. > > A woman was teaching her young daughter how to cook a ham. The mom's > instructions were to cut the end off the ham, add the glaze, etc etc. The > daughter asks "why do we cut the end off the ham". Mom replies... uhhh... > I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask my mom. Grandma > says ... uh... I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask > great grandma. Great grandma says "You don't need to cut the end off the > ham. I just did that because I only had a short pan and I needed to make > the ham fit". > > Question EVERYTHING! > Although www.snopes.com is fairly sceptical about all the facts, I still like this one: Here is a look into the corporate mind that is very interesting, educational, historical, completely true, and hysterical all at the same time: The US standard railroad gauge (width between the two rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates. Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons which used that wheel spacing. Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts. So who built those old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe (and England) were built by Imperial Rome for their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots first formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for (or by) Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Specifications and bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right, because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses. Thus, we have the answer to the original question. Now the twist to the story . . . There's an interesting extension to the story about railroad gauges and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory had to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds. So, the major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a Horse's Ass! -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 18:50:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:50:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B3D693.4020003@verizon.net> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B4686E.6633.59F6078@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 16:28, Francisco H Tapia wrote: > > > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a > consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be > too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size > of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make > my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really > make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to > do so? > > Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you > "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers > use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that > by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect > as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will > improve your storage needs. No it won't! That's the whole point. In "days gone by", you had to determine the size of text fields because db engines allocated the full amount of that space for every record whether you used it or not. In Access, SQL Server etc, whether you define the field size as 20 or 255, makes NO difference to the size of the resulting database. There is now NO reason to arbitrarily limit the size of a text field below the system limit of 255 characters. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 18:52:35 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:52:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: Message-ID: <03c501c442b3$5a8e2220$6601a8c0@HAL9002> If I remember the last conference it would have been nice if someone had presented a case of cold beer around 3pm. You have to do a presentation. But the subject has not been limited. (Sorry, no singing.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > Even if you present garbage? ;) > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > > >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done > >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > > > >-C- > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: jmhla at earthlink.net > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >>California > >> > >> > >> > >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >> > >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >> > >>3. Who would be attending? > >> > >>4. Who would like to present? > >> > >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >> > >>6. Who has a projector we can use? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>JOE HECHT > >> > >>LOS ANGELES CA > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 18:53:27 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:53:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: <37390-220045225211456575@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <03cb01c442b3$79a481e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Catchy title. And everyone will learn a great deal while pretending to be bored.. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Hawkins" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Who, me? *looking innocent* > > Heh. I wasn't even there. > > I will prepare a presentation entitled 'Crap You Already Know How To > Do, But Charlotte Said I Had To Present So Here It Is" > > :P > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 > > >Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >Even if you present garbage? ;) > > > >-C- > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > > > >>Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > >> > >>Charlotte Foust > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM > >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >> > >> > >>P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've > >done > >>anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > >> > >>-C- > >> > >>---- Original Message ---- > >>From: jmhla at earthlink.net > >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >> > >>>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >>>California > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >>> > >>>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from > >the > >>>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >>> > >>>3. Who would be attending? > >>> > >>>4. Who would like to present? > >>> > >>>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >>> > >>>6. Who has a projector we can use? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>JOE HECHT > >>> > >>>LOS ANGELES CA > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 18:54:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:54:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question References: Message-ID: <03d501c442b3$9e98f4e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> & Chr(13) or & vbCrlf. I think that will work. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question > > Mental block here ... if I am using a text box to display text in the > format ="this is my text" & [text field] & "." > > how do I use Char13 to cause a carriage return? I am having a mental block > and can't for the life of me remember how to do this. > > > Connie Kamrowski > > Analyst/Programmer > Information Technology > NSW Agriculture > Orange > > Ph: 02 6391 3250 > Fax:02 6391 3290 > > > This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain > confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received > it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed > are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of > their organisation. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 19:12:11 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:12:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Ah, but then none of us would have been awake for dinner! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference If I remember the last conference it would have been nice if someone had presented a case of cold beer around 3pm. You have to do a presentation. But the subject has not been limited. (Sorry, no singing.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > Even if you present garbage? ;) > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > > >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done > >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > > > >-C- > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: jmhla at earthlink.net > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >>California > >> > >> > >> > >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >> > >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >> > >>3. Who would be attending? > >> > >>4. Who would like to present? > >> > >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >> > >>6. Who has a projector we can use? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>JOE HECHT > >> > >>LOS ANGELES CA > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 19:15:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:15:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: It was an add-in in 97 and earlier but in 2000 and later it is part of the database utilities. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code The linked table manager is an add-in that, in my experience, is not installed by default in 97 and 2000 versions. I have yet to work in an envrionment where this add-in was available when I walked in the door so the DoMenuItem and RunCommand approaches have been of little use. You will be better served in the long run to set the connect property of a tabledef object and then call the refreshlink method of that tabledef object. This is especially true if your users may be in unknown environments. Rolling your own relinking code is not difficult and allows you to simplify the procedure for users by stipulating which tables may be relinked without asking the users to make selections. User 'interference' can get really ugly if you have multiple backend files of varying types in various locations where some may be ISAM, others ODBC and yet others native Access files. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mackin, Christopher" > >docmd.RunCommand acCmdLinkedTableManager > >Will do it > >-Chris Mackin > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:54 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code > > >Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? > >Paul Baumann _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 19:19:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:19:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question Message-ID: Where are you trying to cause a carriage return, in the display? vbCRLF is the equivalent of Chr(13) + Chr(10). In some cases, trying to use them in the data displayed causes the appearance of mysterious little boxes which represent the non-printing characters. I usually handle this in code instead and set the text box value to the resulting string. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au [mailto:connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question Mental block here ... if I am using a text box to display text in the format ="this is my text" & [text field] & "." how do I use Char13 to cause a carriage return? I am having a mental block and can't for the life of me remember how to do this. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange Ph: 02 6391 3250 Fax:02 6391 3290 This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 19:20:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:20:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question In-Reply-To: <03d501c442b3$9e98f4e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40B46F86.698.5BB185A@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > & Chr(13) or & vbCrlf. I think that will work. > > Rocky > You need both CR and LF, so ..."& Chr$(13) & Chr$(10) & ...." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 20:01:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:01:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Visit a strip club? I think we can safely close this thread with the observation that we have the "law enforcement" developers who want to protect their users from themselves, and the "assume their adults and let their boss worry about the children" developers. As it happens I absolutely believe in protecting the user from themselves, but not at the expense of preventing valid data entry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think JC is agreeing with me on this, and I think you have a disconnect on what is a necessary limit, and what is an arbitrary limit. 255 characters is a necessary limit. It is set by the fact that a text field is defined to take up from 1 to 256 bytes. 1 byte is for the size actually stored, the rest leaves up to 255 characters of space. That is built into Jet. The only way around that limit is to either 'join' two or more text fields together (which I have done on RARE occasions), or use a Memo field. Memo fields can hold quite a bit more, however, there are drawbacks with Memo fields. However, the line between when to use one or the other is pretty clear. Is the field in question a data point, or is it a storage bin? In other words, is the field going to represent one particular fact? If it is a single fact, yet it may go over 200 characters, then either a second text field needs to be defined for carryover, or a memo field should be used. 20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but the textbox can be changed with little fuss. Let's say you put gas in your car once a week. Would you only put in the amount you expect to use for the week, or would you completely fill your tank? If you only put in what you expect to use, if something UNEXPECTED happens, you'll run out of gas, which is exactly what you do to your users if you set arbitrary limits. They'll be driving along, cruising down the data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not yours. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Message-ID: Not your imagination. I won! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Tue May 25 20:05:24 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:05:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. In-Reply-To: <40B46F86.698.5BB185A@localhost> Message-ID: Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult to even get the .dll set up and registered... Any idea's or help would be great! Thanks!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 20:11:27 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:11:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <186520-22004532611127781@christopherhawkins.com> *nodding* I was thinking that yesterday. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:14 -0700 >Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK >vs >Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument >with everyone insisting *they* won?? > >Charlotte Foust >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Tue May 25 20:12:53 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:12:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Quick Question - solved Message-ID: Thanks Heaps Stuart .... This one worked You need both CR and LF, so ..."& Chr$(13) & Chr$(10) & ...." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 20:13:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:13:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B3D693.4020003@verizon.net> Message-ID: >Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolerance. Hey, at least you are giving a valid method of determining and a semi valid reason for using a specific size. Of course it is unclear how you are going to determine that 53 is the biggest you ever got if you limit the size to 20 up front. >but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. In Access that simply isn't so. >Not limiting fields is just plain careless! Says you. Limiting text fields without a valid business reason is just silly (and arrogant as well). (says me) I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database is it. Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! From lawhonac at hiwaay.net Tue May 25 21:41:07 2004 From: lawhonac at hiwaay.net (lawhonac) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Joe Celko Has Published a New SQL Book (Brief Review) Message-ID: Title of the book is: "Joe Celko's Trees and Hierarchies in SQL for Smarties". This book covers topics such as representing trees and hierarchies, hierarchical encoding schemes, graphs, binary trees, and several related topics. From my initial scan, it appears that this book would be valuable in gaining insight on how to solve knotty "exploded parts" and "Generation Breakdown List" type applications. (I know people on this list have occasionally posted queries asking how to program these type applications.) NOTE: This is NOT a "beginners" SQL book. Here's a link to the book on Amazon.com (watch the wrap): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1558609202/qid=1085538624/sr=1 -1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5510817-7703934?v=glance&s=books This book is not cheap ($34.95) but if you have to program these type applications, this book is probably worth its weight in gold. Alan C. Lawhon From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 21:43:07 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:43:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: I stand corrected by Charlotte on the availability of the linked table manager in Access 2000. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that the best practice route to take is to write and use your own relinker because it gives you the ability to limit the users propensity to mess up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 21:51:24 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:51:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000501c44203$0c7e37b0$6601a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <40B492CC.24561.644E0F0@localhost> I'm just starting a new project and I'm in two minds about one aspect of the database design. Since this has been discussed so much in the last few days, I thought I'd throw it in for discussion. It's an Accomodation Register type thing for an organisation that has lots of staff housing. AccomodationUnits are children of Properties (Sometimes there will be a house on a property, sometimes a block of several units, possibly dormitory style with individual rooms etc) The client wants to store difital photos. Photos could be of a particular unit or of the whole property. I will be storing the name of the photo file and pulling the image as required from it's storage location. As I see it there are several possibilities including: tblPhotos: AccomUnit/PropertyID AccomUnit/PropertyType Filename.......etc or tblPhotos: AccomUnitID PropertyID Filename.......etc (only store ID for the appropriate Property Type) or tblAccomUnitPhotos: AccomUnit Filename.......etc AND tblPropertyPhotos: PropertyID Filename.......etc Any comments/suggestions as to how far I should normalize and pros/cons of the various approaches - taking into account establishing relationships between tables in the BE, maintaining referential integrity, ease of data retrieval/maintenance in the FE? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 21:55:32 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:55:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <040001c442cc$e94129e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Robert: I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my code off line if you decide to do the two step. I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, but they don't. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gracie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased > the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult to > even get the .dll set up and registered... > > Any idea's or help would be great! > > Thanks!! > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue May 25 22:23:08 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:23:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c442d0$c78a0ac0$6401a8c0@COA3> >From what I've seen, Linked Table Manager is sort of in-between ... It IS part of Access, not an add-in, in 2000, but if they've done a "mimimum install" of Office, then it's not installed, and you will be asked for the CD if you try to run it. ... Reason enough to re-link via code for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code I stand corrected by Charlotte on the availability of the linked table manager in Access 2000. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that the best practice route to take is to write and use your own relinker because it gives you the ability to limit the users propensity to mess up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 22:36:24 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:36:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000501c44203$0c7e37b0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: Sorry in advanced for being long winded but some answers take a while to explain. Normalizing a database actual decreases it's performance while improving it's data consistency by removing redundancy. Beyond a certain point the performance hit becomes too much, there is no longer significant improvement to data integrity and that is where a qualified Database designer can carefully de-normalize the database. It is a careful balancing act of performance versus consistency. I understand there are a series mathematical algorisms that can be used calculate the theoritical relationship between these two apparently opposing forces. I do not have immediate access to this set of formulas but have sent an email to a systems-engineer friend of mine and I can pass the information along, if anyone is interested. Some of the members the list probably have access to the 'math' as well. I have a book called 'Structured Systems Analysis' written by Chris Gane and Trish Saron, that I used in a night-school course, up at the University, a 'number' of years ago and it provided a very good over-view of data, database design and the issues around data management. Of the five basic levels of Normalization I have never gone beyond three, in a real application. A number of years ago a systems company won the contract and moved the provinces medical data into an Oracle DB. The resultant system was purist dream. Unfortunately, when the data was ported the system ground to a halt. On-line transactions would take up to fifteen minutes and I heard some reports would take up to four days. My understanding is that the design was normalized down to level 5. The whole design had to be rebuilt and it was; de-normalized back to level 3. Here is a data example that is not normalized but became the method of choice because of it's performance. Given: A table named Staff. Some of the staff are management, supervisors or a regular staff member. What design would give the fastest results? 1. Create two tables one for staff members and another joined table for staff-ranking. When extracting the staff and relationships build a SQL statement that joins the two tables and process same. 2. Add all personnel into the same table and add a field and key for staff-ranking. When extracting the staff from the table build a SQL statement that makes two copies of the table, joins one to the other and then process same. 3. Add an extra field to the staff table that hold the staff ranking number. When extracting the staff from table the SQL uses one table. Even though the method used in number 3 does not result in a normalized table the performance gain is substantial and apparently increases exponentially, relational to any other design structures, when large numbers of staff were added...say Ministry wide. There is a lot of math and case studies that support a balanced position when doing database design. I hope this gives you something to think about. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I have never yet seen a case where denormalization is correct, except in OLAP apps, which are fundamentally different that OLTP apps. I have been overruled by higher-ups on this point several times, and never once been convinced of their correctness. Show me a case in an OLTP app where denormalization is correct, and demonstrate why it is correct as opposed to the "logically correct" model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 22:58:27 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:58:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF42@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hear hear Well said...I could not have said it better. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various What is art anyhow? Art is simply the manipulation of known sciences. I was a music major in college. (For a time). I played trombone, and was on a jazz scholarship. Got to meet lots of people in the jazz world. It was neat. But I turned my love of math (which is what music is based on), into a passion for computers. To me they are very similar. I was a good musician, but I was never able to 'improvise' very well, at least I didn't like what I would improvise. However, I do like what I can 'improvise' on a computer. Science, engineering, art, etc, all work on systems with rules. When you are building a bridge, you have all sorts of factors that are involved, and modern engineers have tons and tons of experience to overcome the normal mundane issues. However, science, engineering and art are also expanding. This isn't done strictly through building upon past experience. Every so often an 'out of the box' solution is required, and when it arrives, that is when science, engineering, and art are alike. Granted, when I have to display records on a web page, or create a data entry form, those are pretty mundane, cut and dry processes. However, when I built the archives for the AccessD list, and found searching through the memo fields to be too lengthy of a process, I built the memo field indexer. That was something I considered art. Sure, it uses the same 'tools' that the mundane processes use, but it was (if I may say so) 'Out of the box' thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read you. I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would > agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong > way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, > and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one > very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a > good artist is going to draw something that is immediately > recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can > take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db > design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing > something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, > stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' > media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% > science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as > auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be > compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the > database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published > poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, > tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the > connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. > Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not > much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is > strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, > a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of > incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific > theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a > art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an > artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American > "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected > guerrillas in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, > Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly > the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test > it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the > forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the > normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the > new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the > users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work > like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting > the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several > weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep > the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the > database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db > running until I could throw the switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was > very nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to > put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide > the women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from > the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT > the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in > self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side > of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to > me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly > over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when > Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several > years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was > happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the > office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. > It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational > databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong > except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since > gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually > discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule > than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer > numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access > databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than > developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group > recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating > around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my > company we have several people who know a lot about the business but > only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to > produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of > Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day > basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product > was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the > product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list > that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact > remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of > its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this > mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble > not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get > their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph > into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity > to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid > results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off > into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. > So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be > given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease > the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer > maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we > should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even > harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not > realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the > development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain > about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all > are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at > building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper > where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine > what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to > smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners > IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements > could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth > the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you > the department needs such and such, and you're not a database > developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with > crap from a developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, > but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know > that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it > happens a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to > get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even > have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 22:58:35 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:58:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000b01c4427d$6ef08c20$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: Hi Joe: If you can get a firm enough date and place we can post the 'Conference' on our DBA site and add detail as it become available. It should than be easy to check on the progress and the number of participants. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 23:08:40 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: Sound like an idea worthy of pursuing...there are of course some hurdles...attempted this route at last conference but ran out of time. A quick start could make it a reality.(?) What is needed? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 23:28:56 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:28:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <20040525193322.GKYS1779.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. Just a thought Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I think you could purchase an "opt out" option -- or was that just a request that never made its way to the plan? :) Personally -- you guys really ought to let people attend without forcing them to present -- it's not for everybody. Susan H. Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 23:37:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B492CC.24561.644E0F0@localhost> Message-ID: The only suggestion I could make was not store pictures in the DB. Extracting them in chunk or using the faster stream mode was still slower than storing the actual pictures, in a directory and then connecting them to the form as needed. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm just starting a new project and I'm in two minds about one aspect of the database design. Since this has been discussed so much in the last few days, I thought I'd throw it in for discussion. It's an Accomodation Register type thing for an organisation that has lots of staff housing. AccomodationUnits are children of Properties (Sometimes there will be a house on a property, sometimes a block of several units, possibly dormitory style with individual rooms etc) The client wants to store difital photos. Photos could be of a particular unit or of the whole property. I will be storing the name of the photo file and pulling the image as required from it's storage location. As I see it there are several possibilities including: tblPhotos: AccomUnit/PropertyID AccomUnit/PropertyType Filename.......etc or tblPhotos: AccomUnitID PropertyID Filename.......etc (only store ID for the appropriate Property Type) or tblAccomUnitPhotos: AccomUnit Filename.......etc AND tblPropertyPhotos: PropertyID Filename.......etc Any comments/suggestions as to how far I should normalize and pros/cons of the various approaches - taking into account establishing relationships between tables in the BE, maintaining referential integrity, ease of data retrieval/maintenance in the FE? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 00:08:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:08:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <40B492CC.24561.644E0F0@localhost> Message-ID: <40B4B2F9.25126.6C291F0@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 21:37, Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: > The only suggestion I could make was not store pictures in the DB. > Extracting them in chunk or using the faster stream mode was still slower > than storing the actual pictures, in a directory and then connecting them to > the form as needed. > That's what I always do for photos. I was actually looking for suggestions about the various design options. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed May 26 00:48:51 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:48:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD92A@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I don't know why but I once had a problem with relationships to. Relationsships are saved in a hidden read only table. That is, read only only when you access by view. You can write some code to read, change and add relationship to that table. So if you have a lot of relations that needs to be moved from the FE to the BE you could consider wrting sme code for it.... Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Arthur Fuller Verzonden: dinsdag 25 mei 2004 21:33 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: [AccessD] Ooops! Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 26 02:08:04 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:08:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c001c442f0$3076e8e0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> For the sake of those on slow lines, and those who are storing the archives, please try to remember to trim your replies. Some of these messages are quite long, and have a zillion copies of the AccessD sig at the bottom. Great discussion though. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 26 03:15:07 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:15:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: <18882975.1085559307132.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Martin, What front-end are you pulling the recordsets into (Web, Access, VB6) ? I know you can use the commands YourRecordset.PageSize=100, YourRecordset.CacheSize, YourRecordset.AbsolutePage=YourPageNumber Not sure how they actually work, haven't used them in working examples before....but if your returning the results to a Web page this might be of interest to you http://www.brettb.com/EasyADORecordSetPaging.asp Paul Hartland Message date : May 25 2004, 09:59 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move freely between pages. Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? MArtin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de Wed May 26 03:19:52 2004 From: Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:19:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] free PDF conversion utility Message-ID: Another free PDF conversion utility is: http://docmorph.nlm.nih.gov/docmorph/default.htm I have not used it so far. Might be of interest anyway. Helmut E. Kotsch From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 26 03:29:05 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: <2811877.1085560145886.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Martin, Just came across this web page as well for handling pages using a stored procedure. http://weblogs.asp.net/pwilson/archive/2003/10/10/31456.aspx Paul Hartland Message date : May 25 2004, 09:59 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move freely between pages. Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? MArtin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed May 26 03:32:37 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:32:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <18882975.1085559307132.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: <000901c442fc$00da39f0$9111758f@aine> Would be from SQL Server to MS Access. martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Martin, > What front-end are you pulling the recordsets into (Web, Access, VB6) ? > I know you can use the commands YourRecordset.PageSize=100, YourRecordset.CacheSize, YourRecordset.AbsolutePage=YourPageNumber > Not sure how they actually work, haven't used them in working examples before....but if your returning the results to a Web page this might be of interest to you http://www.brettb.com/EasyADORecordSetPaging.asp > Paul Hartland > > > > > > Message date : May 25 2004, 09:59 PM > >From : "Martin Reid" > To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Copy to : > Subject : [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > freely between pages. > > Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > MArtin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Wed May 26 04:14:53 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:14:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <00e701c44301$eb4962e0$3f412d3e@jester> Paul, how can there be 1.33 days between 2 dates?? I think this can only be a whole numer? What does this function show in the immediate window? Maybe you should try it with hours and calculate that to days? HTH, Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:18 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION > I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got it to run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. The query results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. > > StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. > > select > Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays > from > tblPrCas > > > Thanks, > Paul > > > ********************************************************** > This message contains information that is confidential > and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. > It is intended only for the recipient named and for > the express purpose(s) described therein. > Any other use is prohibited. > **************************************************************** > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 04:26:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:26:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION In-Reply-To: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <267948579.20040526112640@cactus.dk> Hi Paul In that case you are not looking for a difference in days between dates but in hours (or minutes or seconds as to the precision you need) between dates and times. Adjust your code to calculate, say, hours; then divide by 24 to obtain the result in decimal days. /gustav > I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got > it to run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. > The query results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. > StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. > select > Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays > from > tblPrCas From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 04:16:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:16:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <897350759.20040526111642@cactus.dk> Hi Martin If you are using ODBC and do not need bound forms or reports, a separate workspace and ODBCDirect could be useful. Look up the on-line help on this. /gustav > Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > freely between pages. > Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > MArtin From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 04:03:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <1186581373.20040526110353@cactus.dk> Hi Jim I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and carries out quietly when launched). Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? /gustav > We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It > takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? > This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? > TIA > Jim DeMarco > Director Application Development > Hudson Health Plan From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 05:03:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:03:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION In-Reply-To: <00e701c44301$eb4962e0$3f412d3e@jester> Message-ID: <40B4F81A.9984.7D095E7@localhost> > > > I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got it to > run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. The query > results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. > > > > StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. > > > > select > > Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays > > from > > tblPrCas > > Problem is Datediff returns an Integer so AVG also returns an Integer. You need to convert the Integer to a float before calcuating the average. Try Avg(CAST(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate),Float)) AS TurnDays -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 06:01:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:01:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION In-Reply-To: <40B4F81A.9984.7D095E7@localhost> References: <00e701c44301$eb4962e0$3f412d3e@jester> Message-ID: <40B505C4.13803.805F710@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 20:03, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Avg(CAST(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate),Float)) AS TurnDays > Make that Avg(CAST(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate) AS Float)) AS TurnDays -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 06:16:33 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Francisco, What you have said is exactly why I keep harping on the size issue. It isn't that the field can hold 255 characters, to me that is arbitrary. Well said... Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 05:50:44 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:50:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4D@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <7112992952.20040526125044@cactus.dk> Hi DWUTKA > Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo > fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So > in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well > move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the > world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Or move the text to separate files - as we do for pictures! /gustav > But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to > saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 06:16:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:16:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7814540918.20040526131632@cactus.dk> Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 06:28:41 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:28:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: You are exactly right... I won! Just kidding, I think we all win. Discussion like this helps me be a better developer. The next time someone asks about a text limit(which almost never happens), all of us will be able to fully present the pros and cons of such limits. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not your imagination. I won! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed May 26 06:30:08 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:30:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. In-Reply-To: <040001c442cc$e94129e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Rocky, Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I will end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! robert at servicexp.com Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. Robert: I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my code off line if you decide to do the two step. I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, but they don't. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gracie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased > the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult to > even get the .dll set up and registered... > > Any idea's or help would be great! > > Thanks!! > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 06:42:51 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:42:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526114249.KPMI1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 06:43:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:43:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Francisco, What you have said is exactly why I keep harping on the size issue. It isn't that the field can hold 255 characters, to me that is arbitrary. Well said... Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 06:49:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:49:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <7814540918.20040526131632@cactus.dk> Message-ID: >I'm the expert. No argument. >Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. No argument. >If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. No argument. IF THERE WERE GOOD REASON. >As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? >Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Today. >Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 06:50:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:50:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, discussion is a good thing. This has dragged on and on over a relatively minor detail hasn't it? Passion is a wonderful thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You are exactly right... I won! Just kidding, I think we all win. Discussion like this helps me be a better developer. The next time someone asks about a text limit(which almost never happens), all of us will be able to fully present the pros and cons of such limits. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not your imagination. I won! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 06:59:05 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:59:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526115902.KVWC1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. No one cares about that anymore unless they're working with a tremendously large amount of data -- and then, they're probably not using Access. On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. You may not do it, but it is perfectly acceptable. I could take your logic another step and say why bother with data types? I can make the data anything I want using the right conversion function and code, so why bother? Access trainers still teach people that they CAN limit the field's size. It's there, you can use it or not use it. There's nothing wrong with doing so. You're both right -- and you should both use the tools you have the best you can. Period. Susan H. >I'm the expert. No argument. >Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. No argument. >If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I >would tell or simply apply it. No argument. IF THERE WERE GOOD REASON. >As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? >Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Today. >Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the >way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 26 07:17:32 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:17:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: >> limit the users propensity to mess up << So many comebacks...so little time;) Mark From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Wed May 26 07:19:38 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:19:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCAD@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Guys Although not a great many people are currently subbed to dba-conf, can those of you who are interested in the LA event please subscribe to it now and move this discussion over there? Feel free to post occasional updates to AccessD, but the main discussion of the conference should take place on the dba-conf list which was, after all, set up for precisely that purpose. :) thanks Roz -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] Sent: 25 May 2004 18:27 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 26 07:21:09 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:21:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Gustav. You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP updates/patches might help. I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Hi Jim I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and carries out quietly when launched). Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? /gustav > We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It > takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? > This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? > TIA > Jim DeMarco > Director Application Development > Hudson Health Plan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 07:24:36 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I don't mean space/storage. You are not listening to me. What I'm saying is that there is no business rule telling you to set it to 255, you are picking it because that is a limit of access. That is all I'm saying. It makes no more sense to me to make it 255 characters (which really doesn't matter on storage) than to make it a sensible number based on some sort of logic (which you keep saying I don't do). How do you know how I make my decisions for field size? << That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. I never said I was having any issues. I said that setting the field to 255 arbitrarily may cause an issue down the road. What issue, maybe report problems, I have no idea. At least I know what issues I may have if I set an address field to some size based on some to be determined method. << TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. I've been designing Access DB's since version 1.0 but that alone doesn't make me right and neither do your 10 years of database design. I think that you are a wonderful developer (from what I've seen). This is supposed to be friendly discussion...not personal attacks. I'm not even saying that what you are doing is wrong. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 07:25:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:25:58 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <13918707149.20040526142558@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. I would love to see a fix too! /gustav > Thanks Gustav. > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches might help. > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). > Jim DeMarco > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > Hi Jim > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > carries out quietly when launched). > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > /gustav >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? >> TIA >> Jim DeMarco >> Director Application Development >> Hudson Health Plan From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 07:20:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:20:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1618403853.20040526142055@cactus.dk> Hi John >> As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, >> BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, >> max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and >> would make no sense to store. > If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will > hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances > be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing > books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? Oh please don't hand it to me. Someone asked for a reason to limit text length in text fields; this is one. >> Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer >> than 34 chars. > Today. And tomorrow too. If street names were longer than that they would cause overflow in many systems and, indeed, not be printable on most address labels, thus the name would be shortened for any practical purpose. Someone asked for a reason to limit text length in text fields; this is one more. >> Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, >> is also what Access's table designer suggests. > Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? It doesn't suggest much more than some default zeroes and so. And this one which smells of common sense - nothing more, nothing less. /gustav >> I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >> is it. > In most cases, the client's. >> Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. > If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I > would tell or simply apply it. > As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC > (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, > max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error > and would make no sense to store. > Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is > longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic > address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer > suggests. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 26 08:01:40 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:01:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search results. http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Hi Jim Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. I would love to see a fix too! /gustav > Thanks Gustav. > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches might help. > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). > Jim DeMarco > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > Hi Jim > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > carries out quietly when launched). > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > /gustav >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? >> TIA >> Jim DeMarco >> Director Application Development >> Hudson Health Plan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 08:02:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:02:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <7814540918.20040526131632@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, I wrote my previous response in haste. Let me be crystal clear about this. If you are 100% certain that 50 characters is enough for the field that needs to e entered, and 100% certain that it won't change in the future, then 50 characters is a FINE field length. The same for 20 or 10 characters. My point has always been that the client needs to be able to enter the data they need to enter, regardless of your personal preferences. There have been "Tough for the user if they can't" responses which I cannot appreciate. Again, to be crystal clear... 1) If 50 characters is enough 100% of the time now and in the future, then it is a PERFECT solution. 2) To run an engineering analysis on what IS the correct length for an address, vs a first name, vs a city is (in my opinion) a waste of my time. 50 characters is fine, 255 is fine. 3) If 50 is fine, 255 is fine. I see no gain in restricting it from 255 to 50. 4) This is all a default in Access. I set it to 255 and forget it (and have never seen a problem). If I set it to 50 I now have to at least give a cursory glance (and more importantly remember that it is set to 50) for those instances where 50 may not be enough. It is NOT in your face that you have just restricted data entry to 50. 5) If I get it wrong I have to boot the users and change it. These are JUST my preferences. I have a lot of things to do when designing a database. I have never seen any benefit from limiting my field sizes. I have numerous times had to go in and open up other peoples limits because the "carved in stone employeeid" changed lengths etc. Whatever you do, PLEASE don't tell me I should be limiting the user to 20 characters for an address even if the address can really be bigger (which has been stated in this thread). I suppose I shall just have to live with the title "sloppy developer" if setting and forgetting 255 characters earns me that. I will take solace in the fact that I have more time to do more useful things than make educated guesses and clean up messes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 08:13:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:13:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <20040526115902.KVWC1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan, >Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. And yet this very argument has been raised! >On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. I have no issue with "Can limit the field size". I have an issue with an arbitrary length that MAY limit valid data entry (I thought I had said that). If you are designing something like a state table, and the state table will only hold US states, you can pretty safely limit the code field to 2 characters. It takes no time to figure that out, it takes no time to implement etc. Go for it. If you want to spend your time setting fields like City to 50 characters, go for it. Setting it to 15 I would argue with. Once we go there then what is a valid value? How much time to you spend (and bill the customer for) figuring out EXACTLY the right amount? What if you're wrong? But if that floats your boat, and your customer is willing to pay for it, then by all means go for it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. No one cares about that anymore unless they're working with a tremendously large amount of data -- and then, they're probably not using Access. On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. You may not do it, but it is perfectly acceptable. I could take your logic another step and say why bother with data types? I can make the data anything I want using the right conversion function and code, so why bother? Access trainers still teach people that they CAN limit the field's size. It's there, you can use it or not use it. There's nothing wrong with doing so. You're both right -- and you should both use the tools you have the best you can. Period. Susan H. >I'm the expert. No argument. >Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. No argument. >If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I >would tell or simply apply it. No argument. IF THERE WERE GOOD REASON. >As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? >Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Today. >Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the >way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 08:32:17 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:32:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526133214.RJMI1742.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I have no issue with "Can limit the field size". I have an issue with an arbitrary length that MAY limit valid data entry (I thought I had said that). If you are designing something like a state table, and the state table will only hold US states, you can pretty safely limit the code field to 2 characters. It takes no time to figure that out, it takes no time to implement etc. Go for it. If you want to spend your time setting fields like City to 50 characters, go for it. Setting it to 15 I would argue with. Once we go there then what is a valid value? How much time to you spend (and bill the customer for) figuring out EXACTLY the right amount? What if you're wrong? But if that floats your boat, and your customer is willing to pay for it, then by all means go for it. =================I read your response to Gustav just a bit OK and that cleared up your position a great deal. It's a huge thread -- I've missed some of it! So shoot me! ;) Personally, I wouldn't bother with field size unless I had a specific reason to do so. Susan H. From pharold at proftesting.com Wed May 26 09:12:46 2004 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry Harold) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:12:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <20040526133214.RJMI1742.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001a01c4432b$84c22ff0$082da8c0@D58BT131> Some dead horses take longer to kill than others. Perry -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I have no issue with "Can limit the field size". I have an issue with an arbitrary length that MAY limit valid data entry (I thought I had said that). If you are designing something like a state table, and the state table will only hold US states, you can pretty safely limit the code field to 2 characters. It takes no time to figure that out, it takes no time to implement etc. Go for it. If you want to spend your time setting fields like City to 50 characters, go for it. Setting it to 15 I would argue with. Once we go there then what is a valid value? How much time to you spend (and bill the customer for) figuring out EXACTLY the right amount? What if you're wrong? But if that floats your boat, and your customer is willing to pay for it, then by all means go for it. =================I read your response to Gustav just a bit OK and that cleared up your position a great deal. It's a huge thread -- I've missed some of it! So shoot me! ;) Personally, I wouldn't bother with field size unless I had a specific reason to do so. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Wed May 26 09:15:09 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:15:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191BC1@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or system.mdw) -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves > reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on > this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two > most relevant search results. > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure > how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). > > Jim D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Hi Jim > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. > > I would love to see a fix too! > > /gustav > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > problem. > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches > > might help. > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > icon to open a > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > selecting an > > item in a list at that!). > > > Jim DeMarco > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > Hi Jim > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > installed. > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > fires the > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > extensions; Word 2000 > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > > > /gustav > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > whenever they > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > It takes a > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > >> happening and how to stop it? > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > I'm wondering > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > >> TIA > > >> Jim DeMarco > >> Director Application Development > >> Hudson Health Plan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ********************* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only > of the named recipient, and may contain information from > Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this message in error or are not the named > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************** > ********************* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 09:16:54 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:16:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 26 09:18:47 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9FD@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Marty but I don't have A2K installed on this client's machine. I'm not sure this will work for a runtime A2K app on a machine that runs O97. Seems simple enough to try first though. Thanks, Jim DeMarco. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or system.mdw) -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves > reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on > this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two > most relevant search results. > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure > how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). > > Jim D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Hi Jim > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. > > I would love to see a fix too! > > /gustav > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > problem. > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches > > might help. > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > icon to open a > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > selecting an > > item in a list at that!). > > > Jim DeMarco > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > Hi Jim > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > installed. > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > fires the > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > extensions; Word 2000 > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > > > /gustav > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > whenever they > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > It takes a > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > >> happening and how to stop it? > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > I'm wondering > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > >> TIA > > >> Jim DeMarco > >> Director Application Development > >> Hudson Health Plan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ********************* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only > of the named recipient, and may contain information from > Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this message in error or are not the named > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************** > ********************* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 26 09:47:17 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:47:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... Message-ID: If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables for Properties and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table for photos? tblPhotos PhotoID PhotoPath PhotoDate PhotoComments PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think that would allow the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of anything you track in your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm just starting a new project and I'm in two minds about one aspect of the database design. Since this has been discussed so much in the last few days, I thought I'd throw it in for discussion. It's an Accomodation Register type thing for an organisation that has lots of staff housing. AccomodationUnits are children of Properties (Sometimes there will be a house on a property, sometimes a block of several units, possibly dormitory style with individual rooms etc) The client wants to store difital photos. Photos could be of a particular unit or of the whole property. I will be storing the name of the photo file and pulling the image as required from it's storage location. As I see it there are several possibilities including: tblPhotos: AccomUnit/PropertyID AccomUnit/PropertyType Filename.......etc or tblPhotos: AccomUnitID PropertyID Filename.......etc (only store ID for the appropriate Property Type) or tblAccomUnitPhotos: AccomUnit Filename.......etc AND tblPropertyPhotos: PropertyID Filename.......etc Any comments/suggestions as to how far I should normalize and pros/cons of the various approaches - taking into account establishing relationships between tables in the BE, maintaining referential integrity, ease of data retrieval/maintenance in the FE? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 10:07:52 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:07:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B4B2C8.3060609@verizon.net> John W. Colby wrote On 5/25/2004 6:13 PM: >Says you. Limiting text fields without a valid business reason is just >silly (and arrogant as well). (says me) > >I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >is it. Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > > > But then that argument goes, why not build their database in something like mySQL or Sql Server (MSDE if you need to) in order to give them a maximum value of 8000 characters? hmm? -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 10:09:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:09:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: All the VBA-based versions of Access use mdw for the workgroup. It was Access 2.0 and earlier that used an mda. A97 could still use an mda but the later versions can't. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or system.mdw) -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves > reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on > this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two > most relevant search results. > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure > how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). > > Jim D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Hi Jim > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. > > I would love to see a fix too! > > /gustav > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > problem. > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches > > might help. > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > icon to open a > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > selecting an > > item in a list at that!). > > > Jim DeMarco > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > Hi Jim > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > installed. > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > fires the > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > extensions; Word 2000 > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > > > /gustav > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > whenever they > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > It takes a > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > >> happening and how to stop it? > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > I'm wondering > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > >> TIA > > >> Jim DeMarco > >> Director Application Development > >> Hudson Health Plan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ********************* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only > of the named recipient, and may contain information from > Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this message in error or are not the named > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************** > ********************* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed May 26 10:13:40 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:13:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <20040526115902.KVWC1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01b601c44334$069fc1b0$6601a8c0@rock> I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 10:18:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:18:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Wed May 26 10:24:05 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:24:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have you tried using UUencode which breaks up file attachments into manageable 64k chunks? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004 From artful at rogers.com Wed May 26 10:27:23 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:27:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01bc01c44335$f132c320$6601a8c0@rock> Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After all, they're on Version 9 or so! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 10:31:55 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:31:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: Arthur, I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when needed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After all, they're on Version 9 or so! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 10:44:43 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:44:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B4BB6B.2000603@verizon.net> Scott Marcus wrote On 5/25/2004 7:24 AM: >That's why you have address line 2. > >Just messing with you, John. > > LOL!, good laugh thanks :) -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 10:59:46 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:59:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AE2725.15819.6B50678@localhost> References: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40AE2725.15819.6B50678@localhost> Message-ID: <40B4BEF2.8010308@verizon.net> Stuart McLachlan wrote On 5/20/2004 10:58 PM: >On 20 May 2004 at 13:04, Francisco H Tapia wrote: > > > >>yup, but unfortunately that's not a complete answer. I've used >>different variation of the same code and while it works for some users, >>it does not work for all. that's just my personal observation tho... ymmv >> >> >> > >What code would that be? I don't think you've seen my source. > >If they are using a MAPI conpliant system, under what situations have >you found it not working? > > > > > > woops, sorry, catching up on "old" email, one derivative was using code posted from Michael Kaplan, I tested the code several times on Windows 2000 SP1 - 3 (at the time), NT SP6a and Windows 95/98/and ME. using Outlook and Outlook Express as the default mail client. I did not test with Pegasus or Eudora wich some of our users are attached to. In the end what resulted even on systems that were using Outlook Express was that emails were being stuffed in the Outbox of Outlook itself... very very bizar. -- -Francisco From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed May 26 11:19:06 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:19:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC52@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Wed May 26 11:28:46 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:28:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 11:37:10 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:37:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >Arthur, > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when >needed. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >string >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in >that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files >that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. >Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >installed. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 12:02:46 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:02:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: << I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) I understood this from the beginning. I love this list. I get a good laugh right when I need it. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Wed May 26 12:09:12 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:09:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191C01@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Have they cought on to the 'stick' yet, or memory on a USB connected camera? What about cameras (on your cell)? C'mon - there's gotta be away to carry info out the door! (LOL) > -----Original Message----- > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:37 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > > Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program > that creates > files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed > Access 97, I > have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. > > Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a > shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC > connections or install > any software. It is also not possible to email certain files > nor to access > an email account from outside the offices except through > Terminal Services, > with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. > Only a few > laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is > not possible for > me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any > attempt to > install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on > the terminal > server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access > application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into > several dozen > files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them > as doc files and > reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic > does not work > with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's > mvps.org site > that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and > running in the > target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some > straight forward > File I/O code that will do the trick. > > They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the > application but my > users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the > 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Charlotte Foust" > > > >Arthur, > > > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some > systems are so > >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed > on machines when > >needed. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > > > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction > >between > >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such > as the author of > >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, > at least among > >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from > my point of > >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do > the same. After > >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > > > >Arthur > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > J?rgen Welz > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > > > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size > that can > >be > > > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've > >been > > > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a > >string > >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like > I'm getting a > >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably > I'm adding some > >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since > it appears I'm > >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > > > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large > graphics files > >in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. > They have an > >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff > >files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will > >not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no > >getting it installed. > > > > > >Ciao > >J?rgen Welz > >Edmonton, Alberta > >jwelz at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994& > DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Wed May 26 12:14:43 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:14:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191C02@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> I think the functionality of mda still works with A2K and A2K2 (don't know about A2K3) but need A2 or A97 to modify info in it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > All the VBA-based versions of Access use mdw for the > workgroup. It was Access 2.0 and earlier that used an mda. > A97 could still use an mda but the later versions can't. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; > -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. > -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line > "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or > system.mdw) > > -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems > > mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K > -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in > system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 > > -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda > with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling > > Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine > at all, just > > the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search results. > > > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second > > link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall > > Access 2000 since it's not present). > > > > Jim D. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch > > I read about it but I'm not sure. > > > > I would love to see a fix too! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use > Office 97. So > > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > > problem. > > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > > updates/patches > > > might help. > > > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > > icon to open a > > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > > selecting an > > > item in a list at that!). > > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > > installed. > > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > > fires the > > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it > to finish. > > > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > > extensions; Word 2000 > > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes > too (and > > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions > of Access? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > > whenever they > > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > > It takes a > > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > > >> happening and how to stop it? > > > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > > I'm wondering > > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > > > >> TIA > > > > >> Jim DeMarco > > >> Director Application Development > > >> Hudson Health Plan > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > ********************* > > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the > > named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan > > (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > > have received this message in error or are not the named > > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > > ************************************************************** > > ********************* > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 12:40:59 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:40:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40B4D6AB.40803@shaw.ca> Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount ' Move to the selected page number objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as to best method for performance Sub AdoPaging() 'stolen from http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS Dim CONN_STRING As String Dim CONN_USER As String Dim CONN_PASS As String CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set ' Comment out to use Access 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" 'CONN_PASS = "password" ' END USER CONSTANTS ' Declare our vars Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just iPageSize records Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset ' Get parameters ' set number of records per page iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this ' Set page to show or default to 1 iPageCurrent = 2 ' If you're doing this script with a search or something ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" Debug.Print strSQL ' Now we finally get to the DB work... ' Create and open our connection Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING ' Create recordset and set the page size Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize ' You can change other settings as with any RS 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize ' Open RS objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, adCmdText ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, ' give them the closest match (1 or max) If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" Else ' Move to the selected page objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent ' Start output with a page x of n line ' Show field names in the top row Dim strtitles As String strtitles = "" For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown = 0 Dim strFields As String strFields = "" Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," Next 'I Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf 'clear strfields shown strFields = "" ' Increment the number of records we've shown iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 ' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext Loop ' All done - close table End If ' Close DB objects and free variables objPagingRS.Close Set objPagingRS = Nothing objPagingConn.Close Set objPagingConn = Nothing End Sub Martin Reid wrote: >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move >freely between pages. > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > >MArtin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 26 12:55:06 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:55:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE609@TAPPEEXCH01> How about: Public Sub SplitFile(ByVal strInputFile As String, _ ByVal strOutputDir As String, _ ByVal strFileBase As String, _ ByVal strFileExtension As String) Const cChunkSize = 1024 Const cFileSize = 1048576 Dim lngInFile As Long Dim lngOutFile As Long Dim lngRemaining As Long Dim lngChunkSize As Long Dim lngFileSize As Long Dim lngCtr As Long Dim strBuffer As String If Right$(strOutputDir, 1) <> "\" Then strOutputDir = strOutputDir & "\" End If If strFileExtension <> "" And Left$(strFileExtension, 1) <> "." Then strFileExtension = "." & strFileExtension End If lngInFile = FreeFile Open strInputFile For Binary As lngInFile lngOutFile = FreeFile lngCtr = 1 Open strOutputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension For Binary As #lngOutFile lngRemaining = LOF(lngInFile) Do Until lngRemaining = 0 If lngRemaining > cChunkSize Then lngChunkSize = cChunkSize Else lngChunkSize = lngRemaining End If strBuffer = Space$(lngChunkSize) Get #lngInFile, , strBuffer Put #lngOutFile, , strBuffer lngRemaining = lngRemaining - lngChunkSize lngFileSize = lngFileSize + lngChunkSize If lngFileSize = cFileSize And lngRemaining > 0 Then Close #lngOutFile lngCtr = lngCtr + 1 Open strOutputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension For Binary As #lngOutFile End If Loop Close #lngInFile Close #lngOutFile End Sub Public Sub ReassembleFiles(ByVal strOutputFile As String, _ ByVal strInputDir As String, _ ByVal strFileBase As String, _ ByVal strFileExtension As String) Const cChunkSize = 1024 Dim lngInFile As Long Dim lngOutFile As Long Dim lngRemaining As Long Dim lngChunkSize As Long Dim lngCtr As Long Dim strBuffer As String Dim strSrcFile As String If Right$(strInputDir, 1) <> "\" Then strInputDir = strInputDir & "\" End If If strFileExtension <> "" And Left$(strFileExtension, 1) <> "." Then strFileExtension = "." & strFileExtension End If lngOutFile = FreeFile Open strOutputFile For Binary As #lngOutFile lngInFile = FreeFile lngCtr = 1 strSrcFile = strInputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension Do Until Dir$(strSrcFile) = "" Open strSrcFile For Binary As #lngInFile lngRemaining = LOF(lngInFile) Do Until lngRemaining = 0 If lngRemaining > cChunkSize Then lngChunkSize = cChunkSize Else lngChunkSize = lngRemaining End If strBuffer = Space$(lngChunkSize) Get #lngInFile, , strBuffer Put #lngOutFile, , strBuffer lngRemaining = lngRemaining - lngChunkSize Loop Close #lngInFile lngCtr = lngCtr + 1 strSrcFile = strInputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension Loop Close #lngOutFile End Sub Alternatively, if the receiving side has shell access, they can reassemble the files using copy: copy /b c:\bitmaps\chunk1.doc + c:\bitmaps\chunk2.doc c:\bitmaps\myfile.tif. -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >Arthur, > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when >needed. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >string >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in >that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files >that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. >Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >installed. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 13:13:12 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:13:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <40B4DE38.4050003@shaw.ca> Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only works for Canadian and US versions You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 Robert Gracie wrote: >Rocky, > Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I will >end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! > >robert at servicexp.com > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >Beach Access Software >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Robert: > >I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. > >I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. > >Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. > >There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >code off line if you decide to do the two step. > >I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >but they don't. > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Gracie" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > > > >> Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >> >> >to > > >>even get the .dll set up and registered... >> >> Any idea's or help would be great! >> >>Thanks!! >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 26 13:18:14 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:18:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Disabling Toolbar options Message-ID: Hi All, I have a vbscript that copies of a database and then runs through a number of steps within that database (deleting forms/queries/modules/removing tabs etc) and then creates an mde. Part of this process sets the bypass key to false, but what I would also like to do is limit the menu-bar options as well as remove the users ability to use Access "special keys." Obviously I would like to include this within the script file, so need to do it programatically. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. 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The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed May 26 13:31:09 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:31:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25><00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <40B4D6AB.40803@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001301c4434f$9e14fef0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > in an array > There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > passing them > Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > ' Create recordset and set the page size > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then > Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > iRecordsShown = 0 > Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! > objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed May 26 13:48:27 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC53@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Thanks. That is what i thought but no joy. There is a space as the first character of each record if that makes any difference. Jim -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 13:50:12 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:50:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice References: Message-ID: <40B4E6E4.3010404@shaw.ca> file Splitter/Assembler http://www.vbcode.com/asp/showsn.asp?theID=4718 You could also use zlib open source but would need a C++ compiler to rebuild. The dll does come standard on Novell clients Welz wrote: > I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can > be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've > been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading > into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks > like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. > Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up > the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus > another two overall. > > Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files > in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an > attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff > files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will > not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no > getting it installed. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed May 26 13:56:51 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:56:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC54@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I figured it out. There were 2 spaces at the front of the record (sigh). like " American Express*" worked great. Thanks Jim H -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed May 26 14:07:32 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:07:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C13846D@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> have you tried: Like "*American Express*" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Thanks. That is what i thought but no joy. There is a space as the first character of each record if that makes any difference. Jim -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 14:52:44 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:52:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice References: Message-ID: <40B4F58C.1070707@shaw.ca> At some places I know, the users and developers would be outside the Net Admin's door with pitchforks and torches. Even places like DND run completely seperate secure systems. Here is one way around Access Security macros via vbs but I suppose this has been disabled. However you should be able to run this from Access 97, calling an Access 2003 app with macro security set to off by changing this one line. Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application.11") Works on my machine with both versions installed. Const cDatabaseToOpen = "C:\.mdb" On Error Resume Next Dim AcApp as object Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application") If AcApp.Version >= 10 Then AcApp.AutomationSecurity = 1 ' msoAutomationSecurityLow End If AcApp.Visible = True AcApp.OpenCurrentDatabase cDatabaseToOpen If AcApp.CurrentProject.FullName <> "" Then AcApp.UserControl = True Else AcApp.Quit MsgBox "Failed to open '" & cDatabaseToOpen & "'." End If Welz wrote: > Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that > creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed > Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. > > Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a > shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or > install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files > nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through > Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote > machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all > and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I > bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop > allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. > If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I > currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few > forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble > the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with > large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site > that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running > in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some > straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. > > They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application > but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self > signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > >> From: "Charlotte Foust" >> >> Arthur, >> >> I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are >> so locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on >> machines when needed. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice >> >> >> Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction >> between code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as >> the author of WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known >> world-wide, at least among Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my >> point.) Frankly, from my point of view, I would sooner trust WinZip >> than my own efforts to do the same. After all, they're on Version 9 >> or so! >> >> Arthur >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice >> >> >> I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be >> >> emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been >> >> playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >> string >> or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm >> getting a >> few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm >> adding some >> delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears >> I'm >> adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. >> >> Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics >> files in >> that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >> attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff >> files >> that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not >> budge. >> Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >> installed. >> >> >> Ciao >> J?rgen Welz >> Edmonton, Alberta >> jwelz at hotmail.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:15:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:15:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF58@main2.marlow.com> You forgot the Lookup fields.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:29:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:29:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF59@main2.marlow.com> Francisco, first of all, I am honestly not sure how SQL server deals with character fields and their 'lengths'. In Access, setting a field to a 255 width does not make the storage space requirement any larger then if it is set to 50, unless someone types 51 or more characters. Does SQL Server take up the 'empty' space regardless? Again, I'm not sure. My analogy to a gas tank was not off, you just didn't make the connection I was trying to make. The size of the gas tank is the maximum length of a text field, or 255. That is what JET has designated as a test field max. The amount of gas you put in, is the limit YOU assign to the field. Does it make sense to not give them a full tank of gas? Putting a larger gas tank in, is like going to SQL Server. If it's necessary, then do it. If it's not, then don't. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:37:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:37:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5B@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Added that comment to see if people were actually reading it. You apparently did.....or your spam software picked it up! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Visit a strip club? I think we can safely close this thread with the observation that we have the "law enforcement" developers who want to protect their users from themselves, and the "assume their adults and let their boss worry about the children" developers. As it happens I absolutely believe in protecting the user from themselves, but not at the expense of preventing valid data entry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think JC is agreeing with me on this, and I think you have a disconnect on what is a necessary limit, and what is an arbitrary limit. 255 characters is a necessary limit. It is set by the fact that a text field is defined to take up from 1 to 256 bytes. 1 byte is for the size actually stored, the rest leaves up to 255 characters of space. That is built into Jet. The only way around that limit is to either 'join' two or more text fields together (which I have done on RARE occasions), or use a Memo field. Memo fields can hold quite a bit more, however, there are drawbacks with Memo fields. However, the line between when to use one or the other is pretty clear. Is the field in question a data point, or is it a storage bin? In other words, is the field going to represent one particular fact? If it is a single fact, yet it may go over 200 characters, then either a second text field needs to be defined for carryover, or a memo field should be used. 20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but the textbox can be changed with little fuss. Let's say you put gas in your car once a week. Would you only put in the amount you expect to use for the week, or would you completely fill your tank? If you only put in what you expect to use, if something UNEXPECTED happens, you'll run out of gas, which is exactly what you do to your users if you set arbitrary limits. They'll be driving along, cruising down the data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not yours. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < No, I remembered them, I just couldn't figure out how to describe the issue! ;-} Besides, I won that one! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You forgot the Lookup fields.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:52:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:52:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> And when your database design is used in another country, with different rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:54:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:54:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5E@main2.marlow.com> That would work. But still is evading the point. Setting text fields to 255 characters isn't giving them all the space in the world, it's just not putting 'extra' limits on something that is already limited to function as is. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi DWUTKA > Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo > fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So > in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well > move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the > world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Or move the text to separate files - as we do for pictures! /gustav > But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to > saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:58:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:58:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5F@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! That last line (below) literally had me cackling out loud. Stop it, you're making my sides hurt! Drew Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 17:00:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:00:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF60@main2.marlow.com> At least this has stayed pretty civil. I agree that is kind of 'debating' is the best way to learn things, or relearn things! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Yes, discussion is a good thing. This has dragged on and on over a relatively minor detail hasn't it? Passion is a wonderful thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 17:05:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL Thanks Drew, I needed that! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And when your database design is used in another country, with different rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 17:37:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:37:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF61@main2.marlow.com> There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated incident. However, unlike issues like bound/unbound, pk's, and the more recent lookup fields, this is an issue which directly affects a users ability to enter data, into a DATAbase. This isn't theory, or ease of use, or handy tools, it's a control that actually limits the entire purpose of a database. Oh well, just another issue to debate I guess. LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. No one cares about that anymore unless they're working with a tremendously large amount of data -- and then, they're probably not using Access. On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. You may not do it, but it is perfectly acceptable. I could take your logic another step and say why bother with data types? I can make the data anything I want using the right conversion function and code, so why bother? Access trainers still teach people that they CAN limit the field's size. It's there, you can use it or not use it. There's nothing wrong with doing so. You're both right -- and you should both use the tools you have the best you can. Period. Susan H. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 17:40:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:40:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF62@main2.marlow.com> Very well put. And I think the difference in our opinion on the matter lies in our different experiences. I've been burned many times over with a 'previous' developer setting limits on text fields, and have never had a problem with a field set to 255. (At least not due to that particular setting). Agree to disagree on experience? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't mean space/storage. You are not listening to me. What I'm saying is that there is no business rule telling you to set it to 255, you are picking it because that is a limit of access. That is all I'm saying. It makes no more sense to me to make it 255 characters (which really doesn't matter on storage) than to make it a sensible number based on some sort of logic (which you keep saying I don't do). How do you know how I make my decisions for field size? << That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. I never said I was having any issues. I said that setting the field to 255 arbitrarily may cause an issue down the road. What issue, maybe report problems, I have no idea. At least I know what issues I may have if I set an address field to some size based on some to be determined method. << TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. I've been designing Access DB's since version 1.0 but that alone doesn't make me right and neither do your 10 years of database design. I think that you are a wonderful developer (from what I've seen). This is supposed to be friendly discussion...not personal attacks. I'm not even saying that what you are doing is wrong. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 17:44:11 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:44:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526224408.NTVL1775.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, I could present -- right after I threw up. ;) Why do you think I write? ;) Susan H. Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 17:46:24 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:46:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: LOL I *had* wondered! ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference OK, I could present -- right after I threw up. ;) Why do you think I write? ;) Susan H. Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 17:48:57 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:48:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF59@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF59@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B51ED9.7020606@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 2:29 PM: >Francisco, first of all, I am honestly not sure how SQL server deals with >character fields and their 'lengths'. In Access, setting a field to a 255 >width does not make the storage space requirement any larger then if it is >set to 50, unless someone types 51 or more characters. Does SQL Server take >up the 'empty' space regardless? Again, I'm not sure. > > > No, they do not take more space, however you must calculate the number of characters you "expect" per field per table in order to set an estimated growth for your database. This is one of things that usually gets skipped w/ many Access developers because generally db's might be no bigger than a few megs. However if it is expected that the db will grow, you'll want to take that consideration for your client so they can properly allocate 100/200/300gig hdd's as needed. >My analogy to a gas tank was not off, you just didn't make the connection I >was trying to make. The size of the gas tank is the maximum length of a >text field, or 255. That is what JET has designated as a test field max. >The amount of gas you put in, is the limit YOU assign to the field. Does it >make sense to not give them a full tank of gas? > maybe you chose the wrong analogy, didja ever think that? :> The reason that still doesn't make sense, is because I or whoever borrows the car can always re-fill the tank at any gas station. Perhaps if you said I took an explorer and fitted it w/ a Ford Festiva Tank, wich only filled up to about 8 gallons.... > Putting a larger gas tank >in, is like going to SQL Server. If it's necessary, then do it. If it's >not, then don't. > > > No that's like going from a 4 banger to a full 10 cylinder HEMMI. -- -Francisco From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 17:52:16 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:52:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B5AC40.7213.10E178@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 10:37, J?rgen Welz wrote: > Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates > files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I > have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. > > Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a > shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install > any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access > an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, > with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few > laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for > me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to > install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal > server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access > application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen > files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and > reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work > with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site > that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the > target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward > File I/O code that will do the trick. > > They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my > users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the > 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. > Try the Pricelessware.org recommended Chainsaw. It's a Windows app, so you don't need to get to a CLI, but doesn't require "installation". It's also small enough to email in to your work account. (Just extract it from the zip and change the extension before emailing it so that it gets past any filters that block executables.) http://www.schmeusser.siw.de/software/chainsaw.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 17:55:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:55:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF61@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF61@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B5205C.3060304@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have >both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, >the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I >haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated >incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 18:00:26 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:00:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B5AE2A.28526.185BC7@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables for Properties > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table for photos? > > tblPhotos > PhotoID > PhotoPath > PhotoDate > PhotoComments > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think that would allow > the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of anything you track in > your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. The question is how to differentiate between property and Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is there a better one) 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for Accomodation unit photos 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the state of the flag., or 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only one of which would be used) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 18:05:59 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:05:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B5AF77.14704.1D707F@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 8:16, J?rgen Welz wrote: > I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string > or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a > few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some > delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm > adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > How are you outputting? If you use Print # or Write #, you will get a CRLF unless you end your statement with a semicolon. If you use Put # it shouldn't add anything. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 18:12:38 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:12:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: It is interesting to note that I've seen nothing from the list in my email in the past 5 hours yet Drew's archive shows at least several posts. I suspect mail is bouncing but can see no reason for this. I saw something about using the usb drives in the archive. The NT4 laptops don't recognize them as configured and the thin client terminals (WinCE) don't have USB ports. I would like to be able to log on to a thin client session from my home, slice whatever files I need to a manageable size and email them to my home account as separate attachments from whence I can reassemble the files, burn to CD or forward as required. An ideal solution would be something that does not require me to attend at the office when I need to do some work on any aspect of the application or the other things that I get called to attend to yet leave me the luxury of working at home. The office is 25 km over on the exact opposite side of the city and the one freeway that I can take is often worse than hitting traffic lights through town. I've been using File I/O for years for other purposes and am now able to recreate all manner of files including mdb/e and xls files by simply reading into a string variable and wrting out the string with a single write to a new file name. The problem comes with a few extra bytes added with the split and reassemble. Probably end of file marker or some such. Guess I'll have to take a hex editor to a small file and see what's happening. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed May 26 18:15:48 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:15:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. In-Reply-To: <40B4DE38.4050003@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Maryty, Sounds Interesting, any examples? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only works for Canadian and US versions You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 Robert Gracie wrote: >Rocky, > Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I will >end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! > >robert at servicexp.com > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >Beach Access Software >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Robert: > >I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. > >I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. > >Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. > >There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >code off line if you decide to do the two step. > >I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >but they don't. > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Gracie" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > > > >> Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >> >> >to > > >>even get the .dll set up and registered... >> >> Any idea's or help would be great! >> >>Thanks!! >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed May 26 18:18:01 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:18:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: <40B4E6E4.3010404@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Oops, Sorry about the typo Marty!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice file Splitter/Assembler http://www.vbcode.com/asp/showsn.asp?theID=4718 You could also use zlib open source but would need a C++ compiler to rebuild. The dll does come standard on Novell clients Welz wrote: > I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can > be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've > been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading > into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks > like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. > Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up > the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus > another two overall. > > Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files > in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an > attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff > files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will > not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no > getting it installed. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 18:28:38 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:28:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF64@main2.marlow.com> Ugh. No, that is not where that argument goes. You are building them a tool in Access. Access suffices for their needs. Why limit them even further? If it makes you happy, set the field limit to 254, if you don't want to set it to Access' maximum. The point is, if you think that you'll probably never go over 50, so you set it at 55, to give yourself 5 extra characters, why not go the entire way, IN ACCESS, and just use 255. If you think it is going to be an issue with reporting, or whatever, if someone puts in more then 50 characters, include data validation that tells the user that an Address, or Name, or whatever field it is, of that length may not display properly in some reports. Please stop bringing up the move to SQL server, it's getting very redundant, and it isn't the point I am trying to make (nor JC). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various John W. Colby wrote On 5/25/2004 6:13 PM: >Says you. Limiting text fields without a valid business reason is just >silly (and arrogant as well). (says me) > >I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >is it. Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > > > But then that argument goes, why not build their database in something like mySQL or Sql Server (MSDE if you need to) in order to give them a maximum value of 8000 characters? hmm? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 26 18:30:29 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:30:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] =?iso-8859-1?q?Attn=3A_J=FCrgen?= Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE60E@TAPPEEXCH01> I tried sending my file splitter code to you, but it bounced from Hotmail, saying that your mailbox is full. Brett Barabash, MCP Tappe Construction, Co. Eagan, MN bbarabash at tappeconstruction.com (651) 256-6831 "One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse." -Jack Handey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 18:31:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:31:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF65@main2.marlow.com> Score Keeper.....what was the final score on that? LOL. That one got a little over heated though. But it didn't block users from entering data either way! LOL. Oh, I love this list. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, I remembered them, I just couldn't figure out how to describe the issue! ;-} Besides, I won that one! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You forgot the Lookup fields.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 18:47:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF66@main2.marlow.com> The users just go and get more gas, eh? So now you are letting your users go in and change the field size of a table? Why set the limit in the first place, if you have users that not only are allowed to change the field size, but also know how to do it? Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not theory, how many actual times. In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db that couldn't store what they wanted. Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do you think those clients think of their original developers? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 2:29 PM: >Francisco, first of all, I am honestly not sure how SQL server deals with >character fields and their 'lengths'. In Access, setting a field to a 255 >width does not make the storage space requirement any larger then if it is >set to 50, unless someone types 51 or more characters. Does SQL Server take >up the 'empty' space regardless? Again, I'm not sure. > > > No, they do not take more space, however you must calculate the number of characters you "expect" per field per table in order to set an estimated growth for your database. This is one of things that usually gets skipped w/ many Access developers because generally db's might be no bigger than a few megs. However if it is expected that the db will grow, you'll want to take that consideration for your client so they can properly allocate 100/200/300gig hdd's as needed. >My analogy to a gas tank was not off, you just didn't make the connection I >was trying to make. The size of the gas tank is the maximum length of a >text field, or 255. That is what JET has designated as a test field max. >The amount of gas you put in, is the limit YOU assign to the field. Does it >make sense to not give them a full tank of gas? > maybe you chose the wrong analogy, didja ever think that? :> The reason that still doesn't make sense, is because I or whoever borrows the car can always re-fill the tank at any gas station. Perhaps if you said I took an explorer and fitted it w/ a Ford Festiva Tank, wich only filled up to about 8 gallons.... > Putting a larger gas tank >in, is like going to SQL Server. If it's necessary, then do it. If it's >not, then don't. > > > No that's like going from a 4 banger to a full 10 cylinder HEMMI. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:11:13 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:11:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <20040526224408.NTVL1775.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000b01c4437f$2239d6e0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Joe's Rules You toss cookies You clean cookies JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference OK, I could present -- right after I threw up. ;) Why do you think I write? ;) Susan H. Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:13:09 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:13:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <20040526114249.KPMI1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000c01c4437f$67ab8ca0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Not all attendees need to present. I am not able to go all day. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:15:15 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:15:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c4437f$b2594940$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Anyone who can help me review tech requirements of recording it. I do not have any proper digital toys for this. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Sound like an idea worthy of pursuing...there are of course some hurdles...attempted this route at last conference but ran out of time. A quick start could make it a reality.(?) What is needed? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:29:42 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:29:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCAD@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <001401c44381$b71e8790$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Roz, I have subscribed to the dba-conf list.there. All those with interest in the LA meeting please move the conversations over JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Guys Although not a great many people are currently subbed to dba-conf, can those of you who are interested in the LA event please subscribe to it now and move this discussion over there? Feel free to post occasional updates to AccessD, but the main discussion of the conference should take place on the dba-conf list which was, after all, set up for precisely that purpose. :) thanks Roz -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] Sent: 25 May 2004 18:27 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 26 19:30:53 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:30:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <01b601c44334$069fc1b0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: That is what I like a person who exudes confidence. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 26 19:30:56 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:30:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals that will argue every point I try and make". Just a suggestion Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 19:32:40 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:32:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: LOL. Perfect!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals that will argue every point I try and make". Just a suggestion Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 26 19:41:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:41:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi J?rgen: I have a piece of code around somewhere, in VB, that compresses and uncompresses a file or more. If you are interested I could try digging it up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >Arthur, > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when >needed. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >string >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in >that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files >that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. >Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >installed. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed May 26 20:15:36 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:15:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <028201c44388$1e0d7c30$6601a8c0@rock> LOL Thanks Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various That is what I like a person who exudes confidence. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 20:24:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:24:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000b01c4437f$2239d6e0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <20040527012419.UKWK1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> That's why I'd stay home. :) Susan H. Joe's Rules You toss cookies You clean cookies From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 21:38:21 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:38:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: I have had no list mail since Charlotte's mail on this topic explaining to Arthur question about why my code should be trusted. It's been 8 hours since I've received any list mail. Using Drew's archive I found Marty's link: http://www.vbcode.com/asp/showsn.asp?theID=4718 which was easily adapted to my purposes. That code assumed but did not show a few command buttons and a textbox and a combo box and used conventional VB syntax (referring to the text property of a textbox and checking for "" rather than null, and using additem and a named listindex for the combo). I made minor changes adding my own API browse for files to adapt it to typical Access 97 code and it works perfectly on files that I tried it with. The code is very nice, stores away the file extension in a file header together with the number of file pieces and automatically names the file with a numeric incrementing extension. Reassembly merely requires one to pass the path and name of the first file piece. It's a bit slower than I expected but it appears to work well and I'll spend a bit of time this weekend mulling over what I was doing wrong. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From karenr7 at oz.net Wed May 26 23:15:55 2004 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:15:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: <40B5AE2A.28526.185BC7@localhost> Message-ID: <200405270415.i4R4FmQ20566@databaseadvisors.com> Stuart, I bought some of the stuff from these guys about three years ago. http://datasphere.net/OfficeComponents.aspx Pretty good stuff. Their sample database was an accommodation register. Well done. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA karenr7 at oz dot net (Spam blocker -- resolve into a real email address) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables for Properties > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table for photos? > > tblPhotos > PhotoID > PhotoPath > PhotoDate > PhotoComments > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think that would allow > the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of anything you track in > your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. The question is how to differentiate between property and Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is there a better one) 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for Accomodation unit photos 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the state of the flag., or 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only one of which would be used) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu May 27 00:37:38 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040527053738.20910.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Correct! My mistake, forgot to mention that. Sander Charlotte Foust wrote: I believe you have to have CDO installed to make that work, do you not? Since CDO isn't installed automatically, even with Outlook, that could be problematic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Don't know if this was solved or not but this does the trick. Here's part of my VB code wich attaches a file to an e-mail. It makes use of the MAPISESSION component : frmMain.MAPISession1.UserName = ProfileName frmMain.MAPISession1.NewSession = True frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOn With frmMain.MAPIMessages1 .SessionID = frmMain.MAPISession1.SessionID .Compose .MsgIndex = -1 .RecipAddress = Recip .ResolveName .MsgSubject = strMail_Titel .MsgNoteText = NoteText If Bestand <> "" Then .AttachmentIndex = .AttachmentCount .AttachmentPathName = Bestand .AttachmentType = mapData .AttachmentPosition = Len(.MsgNoteText) - 1 .AttachmentName = Bestand End If .Send End With frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOff frmMain.MAPIMessages1.SessionID = -1 SendMailOrder = True LogStatus "Mail verstuurd (" & strMail_Titel & ")" Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu May 27 00:48:45 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Message-ID: <20040527054845.8236.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 27 01:14:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:14:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Normalization and De-normalization In-Reply-To: <000601c44203$4d208b10$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: ...And as a continuation to our conversation about the balancing act between normalization and de-normalization here are some good books that I am sure you will find interesting. I have only read a little bit of one (Handbook of Relational Design) but the list came highly recommended by a friend who, has worked as a systems engineer for the last twenty-five years. (We started out together in the same office many years ago.) Handbook of Relational Design - Candace C. Fleming and Barbara von Halle -Addison Wesley ISBN 0-201-11434-8 Fundamentals of Database Systems - Elmasri/Navathe - Benjamin Cummings ISBN 0-8053-0145-3 Database Design for Smarties (Using UML for Data Modeling) - Robert J. Muller - Morgan Kaufman ISBN 1-55860-515-0 I have also spoken to another friend who has been working with databases that do not use the standard relational data models. When I have received more information I will pass it along as well. Hope you find this information on the Art of database designing challenging. Jim From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 27 01:47:26 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:47:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: <40B5AE2A.28526.185BC7@localhost> Message-ID: <000201c443b6$7904c0c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I may be wrong Sturat but I think what Mark is suggesting is that you don't make any differentiation on the Photo table between property and Accomodation Unit photos, you put an FK on the property and Accomodation Unit tables pointing to the Photo Id. Or, assuming you need >1 photo for any unit, have a relationship table. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 27 May 2004 00:00 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... > > > On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > > > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables > for Properties > > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table > for photos? > > > > tblPhotos > > PhotoID > > PhotoPath > > PhotoDate > > PhotoComments > > > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think > that would > > allow the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of > anything you > > track in your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > > > > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. > > The question is how to differentiate between property and > Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is > there a better one) > > 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for > Accomodation unit photos > > 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that > would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the > state of the flag., or > > 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only > one of which would be used) > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 27 01:45:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:45:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <40B58EA6.8010705@shaw.ca> There are two VB examples in the appendix of this part of the technical overview pdf using xml and api call method. They are building the xml dom from scratch so xpath would only be of use is applied to a prebuilt template of the xml file in the dom Kind of hard to explain but you would use xpath to fill the template rather than filling each child element in the dom I would only use xpath once I determined the original method was working. https://developer.intuit.com/qbSDK-current/doc/pdf/1TechnicalOverview.pdf Robert Gracie wrote: >Maryty, > Sounds Interesting, any examples? > > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:13 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only >works for Canadian and US versions >You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, >although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements >instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. >https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 > >Robert Gracie wrote: > > > >>Rocky, >> Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I >> >> >will > > >>end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! >> >>robert at servicexp.com >> >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >>Beach Access Software >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >>Robert: >> >>I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. >> >>I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >>that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. >> >>Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >>process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. >> >>There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >>code off line if you decide to do the two step. >> >>I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >>but they don't. >> >>Rocky Smolin >>Beach Access Software >>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert Gracie" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >>Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >>> >>> >>> >>> >>to >> >> >> >> >>>even get the .dll set up and registered... >>> >>>Any idea's or help would be great! >>> >>>Thanks!! >>>Robert Gracie >>>www.servicexp.com >>> >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 27 01:53:42 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:53:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: Message-ID: <40B59076.3000702@shaw.ca> Wear a battered fedora and use a 15' bullwhip to make your power points. Especially if doing computer archeology. Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: >Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals that >will argue every point I try and make". > >Just a suggestion >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The >presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... >Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... > >A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all >your articles, surely you could find a topic. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going >to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule >would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. > >You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, >and you do what you like -- I guess. > >Susan H. > >Susan, I agree. > >Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large >audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two >sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could >present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics >of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu May 27 03:05:41 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:05:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB1@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION TO DBA-CONF --if not to OT-- This thread is way off topic for accessd, and still running some hours after I asked you nicely to move over. C'mon folks it's not like you have nowhere to go. Roz -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: 27 May 2004 07:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Wear a battered fedora and use a 15' bullwhip to make your power points. Especially if doing computer archeology. Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: >Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals >that will argue every point I try and make". > >Just a suggestion >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The >presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... >Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... > >A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all >your articles, surely you could find a topic. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were >going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, >this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. > >You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your >conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. > >Susan H. > >Susan, I agree. > >Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large >audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two >sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could >present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small >topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu May 27 03:16:42 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:16:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB2@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Sander As always, I guess I'm going to answer your question with a question; Is there any conceivable reason to normalise the data? Is this database ever going to be used for data entry? It sounds like it's more of a data processing facility than a database as such. I'm no normalisation guru, but I have to say I'm favouring your approach from what you've said. Roz -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: 27 May 2004 06:49 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. 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From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 27 04:31:25 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:31:25 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Martin, Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 then change the query to SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > in an array > There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > passing them > Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > ' Create recordset and set the page size > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then > Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > iRecordsShown = 0 > Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! > objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 03:48:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:48:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <1065827599.20040527104809@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search > results. > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). Thanks, but no luck. The first link is about the single-click setting in Explorer while the second is about the registry. However, everything in the registry is set according to the article, so there is nothing more to do, except perhaps a reinstall which I doubt will cure it as the installer runs every time Word 97 has been active. I should repeat that this is for Word only, no problems with Access or Excel. /gustav > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch > I read about it but I'm not sure. > I would love to see a fix too! > /gustav >> Thanks Gustav. >> You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP >> updates/patches might help. >> I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). >> Jim DeMarco >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click >> Hi Jim >> I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. >> Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the >> installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. >> I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 >> demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and >> carries out quietly when launched). >> Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? >> /gustav >>> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >>> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >>> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 04:37:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:37:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <218799843.20040527113741@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > And when your database design is used in another country, with different > rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? > LOL That could be me. That's why I included the word "domestic". For other cases I would do differently. /gustav >> I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >> is it. > In most cases, the client's. >> Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. > If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I > would tell or simply apply it. > As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC > (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, > max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error > and would make no sense to store. > Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is > longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic > address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer > suggests. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 04:40:44 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:40:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1018982626.20040527114044@cactus.dk> Hi John and Drew A nice couple, you two. Now, who would have believed that? /gustav >>hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL > Thanks Drew, I needed that! > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 04:55:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:55:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF66@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF66@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <1019869030.20040527115530@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone > set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not > theory, how many actual times. I don't recall ever to have had to adjust this limit. That's because I'm so good to anticipate the client's need. > In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous > developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users > were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had > done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of > those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db > that couldn't store what they wanted. Well, those previous developers were bad developers. > Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had > a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character > field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and > say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 > characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what > do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do > you think those clients think of their original developers? It all sums up, that to limit a text field length you must be a good programmer; if you are not, just don't. (No reverse conclusions should be made.) /gustav From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu May 27 07:36:56 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:36:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEA03@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Oh well it was worth a look. I've got to head over to my client and see what I can do but I'm almost certain this won't help me either. I wouldn't mind if it just happened when they launched the app but it happens evertime they choose an item from a listbox (which controls the main function of the application). :-( Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Hi Jim > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search > results. > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). Thanks, but no luck. The first link is about the single-click setting in Explorer while the second is about the registry. However, everything in the registry is set according to the article, so there is nothing more to do, except perhaps a reinstall which I doubt will cure it as the installer runs every time Word 97 has been active. I should repeat that this is for Word only, no problems with Access or Excel. /gustav > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch > I read about it but I'm not sure. > I would love to see a fix too! > /gustav >> Thanks Gustav. >> You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP >> updates/patches might help. >> I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). >> Jim DeMarco >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click >> Hi Jim >> I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. >> Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the >> installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. >> I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 >> demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and >> carries out quietly when launched). >> Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? >> /gustav >>> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >>> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >>> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 27 08:22:25 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:22:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... Message-ID: Andy's interpretation of my comments is correct. Here is an example: tblPhotos tblProperties pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID PhotoPath pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Or tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. etc. PhotoComments etc. etc. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... I may be wrong Sturat but I think what Mark is suggesting is that you don't make any differentiation on the Photo table between property and Accomodation Unit photos, you put an FK on the property and Accomodation Unit tables pointing to the Photo Id. Or, assuming you need >1 photo for any unit, have a relationship table. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 27 May 2004 00:00 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... > > > On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > > > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables > for Properties > > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table > for photos? > > > > tblPhotos > > PhotoID > > PhotoPath > > PhotoDate > > PhotoComments > > > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think > that would > > allow the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of > anything you > > track in your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > > > > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. > > The question is how to differentiate between property and > Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is > there a better one) > > 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for > Accomodation unit photos > > 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that > would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the > state of the flag., or > > 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only > one of which would be used) > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu May 27 09:53:09 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:53:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB2@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: Sander, If this is the case then there really is no reason. If, however, the data is being used for something else or being editing or added to, then there is a good reason. In either case the "argument" might be a waste of time and effort since you can flatten it back out very quickly using a select query. Replace the previously used table name with the saved query name and you back to where you were. Normalization is an ideology - so with some people its like arguing politics or religion! (doesn't pay if you don't have to) Best of luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi Sander As always, I guess I'm going to answer your question with a question; Is there any conceivable reason to normalise the data? Is this database ever going to be used for data entry? It sounds like it's more of a data processing facility than a database as such. I'm no normalisation guru, but I have to say I'm favouring your approach from what you've said. Roz -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: 27 May 2004 06:49 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 27 10:18:41 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:18:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Message-ID: I'm going to buck the trend, Sander. If you are relating tables ("link to other tables for master-detail lines") then normalize because if you have linked tables, your data isn't really flat and partial normalization can get you in big trouble. However, from your description, the tables already sound lilke they're fairly normalized, so perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. The only way to further normalize the data with be with links to an articles table unless the prices are standardized, so what bits and pieces would you have? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:49 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 11:11:00 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:11:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF64@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF64@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B61314.1050705@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 4:28 PM: >Ugh. No, that is not where that argument goes. You are building them a >tool in Access. Access suffices for their needs. Why limit them even >further? If it makes you happy, set the field limit to 254, if you don't >want to set it to Access' maximum. The point is, if you think that you'll >probably never go over 50, so you set it at 55, to give yourself 5 extra >characters, why not go the entire way, IN ACCESS, and just use 255. If you >think it is going to be an issue with reporting, or whatever, if someone >puts in more then 50 characters, include data validation that tells the user >that an Address, or Name, or whatever field it is, of that length may not >display properly in some reports. > > > What good is data if they can't use it? If your reports don't display it and they (tho not all clients) aren't smart enough to know to scroll or CTRL-A to get the entire field, what does it matter how "big" you make the field. One of the arguments for the max LENGTH was that it would avoid an unnecessary visit to the client side, however you're still going to have visit them to fix a report or a screen. So what's the difference, that they can store it?, what does it matter, to them they will still say it's "CUT OFF" and YES, I have had this occur, maybe not in the last 3 months but I haven't done any contract work in over a year. >Please stop bringing up the move to SQL server, it's getting very redundant, >and it isn't the point I am trying to make (nor JC). > > I don't think it to be redundant, just that it derails the "POINT" you're trying to make. Not everyone lives in a bubble and some of us do develop in other engines other than Access, such as MS Sql or mySQL.. and by your logic, I should just use the maximum field length because it's THERE. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:25:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have >both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, >the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I >haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated >incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:26:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:26:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF72@main2.marlow.com> Did I forget to mention that my archives are psychic? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice It is interesting to note that I've seen nothing from the list in my email in the past 5 hours yet Drew's archive shows at least several posts. I suspect mail is bouncing but can see no reason for this. I saw something about using the usb drives in the archive. The NT4 laptops don't recognize them as configured and the thin client terminals (WinCE) don't have USB ports. I would like to be able to log on to a thin client session from my home, slice whatever files I need to a manageable size and email them to my home account as separate attachments from whence I can reassemble the files, burn to CD or forward as required. An ideal solution would be something that does not require me to attend at the office when I need to do some work on any aspect of the application or the other things that I get called to attend to yet leave me the luxury of working at home. The office is 25 km over on the exact opposite side of the city and the one freeway that I can take is often worse than hitting traffic lights through town. I've been using File I/O for years for other purposes and am now able to recreate all manner of files including mdb/e and xls files by simply reading into a string variable and wrting out the string with a single write to a new file name. The problem comes with a few extra bytes added with the split and reassemble. Probably end of file marker or some such. Guess I'll have to take a hex editor to a small file and see what's happening. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 27 11:29:26 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:29:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I really don't think that we disagree. I don't even think what you are doing is wrong. It's more of a practice that I don't follow and you do. The whole reason I got involved in this topic was to see if maybe I should change my practice. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Very well put. And I think the difference in our opinion on the matter lies in our different experiences. I've been burned many times over with a 'previous' developer setting limits on text fields, and have never had a problem with a field set to 255. (At least not due to that particular setting). Agree to disagree on experience? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't mean space/storage. You are not listening to me. What I'm saying is that there is no business rule telling you to set it to 255, you are picking it because that is a limit of access. That is all I'm saying. It makes no more sense to me to make it 255 characters (which really doesn't matter on storage) than to make it a sensible number based on some sort of logic (which you keep saying I don't do). How do you know how I make my decisions for field size? << That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. I never said I was having any issues. I said that setting the field to 255 arbitrarily may cause an issue down the road. What issue, maybe report problems, I have no idea. At least I know what issues I may have if I set an address field to some size based on some to be determined method. << TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. I've been designing Access DB's since version 1.0 but that alone doesn't make me right and neither do your 10 years of database design. I think that you are a wonderful developer (from what I've seen). This is supposed to be friendly discussion...not personal attacks. I'm not even saying that what you are doing is wrong. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:31:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:31:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF73@main2.marlow.com> I know, just when you think you have the world figured out, JC and Drew agree about something, and Gustav tosses all internationalization issues out the window. Go figure. Welcome to AccessD: All Controversial Conversations Exceed Standard Size, DOH! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John and Drew A nice couple, you two. Now, who would have believed that? /gustav >>hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL > Thanks Drew, I needed that! > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:32:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:32:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF74@main2.marlow.com> So you only limit the data entry capabilities of people in your own country? How very nice. Okay, that was a dig, but it was just WAY WAY WAY to tempting for me. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi Drew > And when your database design is used in another country, with different > rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? > LOL That could be me. That's why I included the word "domestic". For other cases I would do differently. /gustav >> I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >> is it. > In most cases, the client's. >> Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. > If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I > would tell or simply apply it. > As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC > (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, > max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error > and would make no sense to store. > Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is > longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic > address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer > suggests. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:37:00 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:37:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF75@main2.marlow.com> Now Gustav, that is a VERY valid point. And one that is constantly glossed over whenever we debate 'bad practice' issues. Something is really only bad practice when done by someone that doesn't realize what they are doing. Just like tossing matches into a bucket of gasoline is bad practice, if the person is a fire marshal, and they are doing it for a very specific reason, then it should be done. Same with almost every other topic that has come up with 'bad practice' implications. You are a good developer, so I honestly don't think I would every have to worry about field size limits in a database built by you. However, in the beginning of this thread, I was mentioning that a college course was having their students set field size limits on all of their fields. (10 characters for a first name, etc.) So my point was that the 'established' education system out there is teaching bad habits (along with spaces in the table names, etc). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi Drew > Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone > set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not > theory, how many actual times. I don't recall ever to have had to adjust this limit. That's because I'm so good to anticipate the client's need. > In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous > developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users > were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had > done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of > those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db > that couldn't store what they wanted. Well, those previous developers were bad developers. > Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had > a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character > field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and > say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 > characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what > do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do > you think those clients think of their original developers? It all sums up, that to limit a text field length you must be a good programmer; if you are not, just don't. (No reverse conclusions should be made.) /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu May 27 11:41:25 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:41:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC59@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 11:44:45 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:44:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B61AFD.9090107@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 9:25 AM: >Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and >a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. >The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 >characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident >occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company >running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not >really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the >project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL >Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could >'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update >query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make >a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into >the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data >involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took >about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would >have taken just about as long for just that one). > >So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for >fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. > >However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket >for the original developer, NOT the client. > WOW way to burn time... you obviously didn't have the right tools for the job, because if you can ADD and you can DELETE a field, then you can ALTER... and it takes no more than a few minutes, that's w/ the time it takes to find the field and either write up the command or use a gui interface to do it all... 2 fields, that's nothing, you were just using a hammer.... >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to >where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > > No it's not, and you ripped off your client. Sorry, but unless that's what you charged for just showing up, that's a rip. -- -Francisco From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 27 11:47:01 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:47:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE613@TAPPEEXCH01> So let me get this straight... You just got paid $150 to do what could have been accomplished with the following SQL statement: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN MyField varchar(255) So, can you pass along my name to them? Heck, I'd be willing to do that for a mere $75! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:25 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have >both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, >the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I >haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated >incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 27 12:04:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:04:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 27 13:35:38 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:35:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000201c44419$6c069b60$6401a8c0@COA3> Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 or maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to Access' table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the table design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big deal, there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would irk me more than this. BUT ... Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved into a waste of bits and bandwidth. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past >few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was >Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But >I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >isolated incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 27 13:45:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:45:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <40B63745.4020509@shaw.ca> I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Private Sub Command0_Click() cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ "Data Source=(local);" & _ "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ "User ID=sa;" & _ "Password=;" cnn.Open rst.Source = "Select * from authors" rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient rst.Open , cnn Set Me.Recordset = rst End Sub paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Martin, >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 > >then change the query to >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. >Paul Hartland >PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>From : "Martin Reid" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >> >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>' Move to the selected page number >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >> >> >http://www.asp101.com > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing >>in an array >>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for >>performance >> >> >>Sub AdoPaging() >>'stolen from >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>Dim CONN_USER As String >>Dim CONN_PASS As String >> >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ >>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" >> >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>' Comment out to use Access >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ >>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ >>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" >>'CONN_USER = "samples" >>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>' END USER CONSTANTS >> >>' Declare our vars >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>passing them >>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>iPageSize records >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >> >>' Get parameters >>' set number of records per page >> >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >> >>' Set page to show or default to 1 >> >>iPageCurrent = 2 >> >> >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. >>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. >>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >> >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >> >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. >>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >> >> >>Debug.Print strSQL >> >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>' Create and open our connection >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection >>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS >>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>' Create recordset and set the page size >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >> >>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize >> >>' Open RS >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, >>adCmdText >> >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >> >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount >>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >> >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! >>If iPageCount = 0 Then >>Debug.Print "No records found!" >>Else >>' Move to the selected page >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>' Start output with a page x of n line >> >>' Show field names in the top row >>Dim strtitles As String >>strtitles = "" >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >> >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record >>iRecordsShown = 0 >>Dim strFields As String >>strFields = "" >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >> >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >> >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >> >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>'clear strfields shown >>strFields = "" >> >>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! >>objPagingRS.MoveNext >>Loop >> >>' All done - close table >> >>End If >> >>' Close DB objects and free variables >>objPagingRS.Close >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>objPagingConn.Close >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >> >>End Sub >> >> >>Martin Reid wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want >>> >>> >to > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from >>> >>> >SQL > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move >>>freely between pages. >>> >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. >>> >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? >>> >>>MArtin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu May 27 13:50:02 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:50:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: You can do this with XP but not prior versions. MartyConnelly To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets 05/27/2004 01:45 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Private Sub Command0_Click() cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ "Data Source=(local);" & _ "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ "User ID=sa;" & _ "Password=;" cnn.Open rst.Source = "Select * from authors" rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient rst.Open , cnn Set Me.Recordset = rst End Sub paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Martin, >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField <=100 > >then change the query to >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. >Paul Hartland >PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>From : "Martin Reid" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >> >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>' Move to the selected page number >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >> >> >http://www.asp101.com > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing >>in an array >>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for >>performance >> >> >>Sub AdoPaging() >>'stolen from >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>Dim CONN_USER As String >>Dim CONN_PASS As String >> >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ >>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" >> >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>' Comment out to use Access >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ >>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ >>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" >>'CONN_USER = "samples" >>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>' END USER CONSTANTS >> >>' Declare our vars >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>passing them >>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>iPageSize records >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >> >>' Get parameters >>' set number of records per page >> >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >> >>' Set page to show or default to 1 >> >>iPageCurrent = 2 >> >> >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. >>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. >>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >> >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >> >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. >>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >> >> >>Debug.Print strSQL >> >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>' Create and open our connection >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection >>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS >>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>' Create recordset and set the page size >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >> >>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize >> >>' Open RS >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, >>adCmdText >> >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >> >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount >>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >> >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! >>If iPageCount = 0 Then >>Debug.Print "No records found!" >>Else >>' Move to the selected page >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>' Start output with a page x of n line >> >>' Show field names in the top row >>Dim strtitles As String >>strtitles = "" >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >> >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record >>iRecordsShown = 0 >>Dim strFields As String >>strFields = "" >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >> >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >> >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >> >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>'clear strfields shown >>strFields = "" >> >>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! >>objPagingRS.MoveNext >>Loop >> >>' All done - close table >> >>End If >> >>' Close DB objects and free variables >>objPagingRS.Close >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>objPagingConn.Close >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >> >>End Sub >> >> >>Martin Reid wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want >>> >>> >to > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from >>> >>> >SQL > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move >>>freely between pages. >>> >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. >>> >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? >>> >>>MArtin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 27 13:56:12 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:56:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> <40B63745.4020509@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001901c4441c$4878b5e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of records they get. Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the wire. The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again ordered by "B" and so on and so on. No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First Last but we would also have Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or 2000 down would be ok. Any of this make sense?? OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it > XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. > There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I > must be looking at something the wrong way. > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Private Sub Command0_Click() > cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ > "Data Source=(local);" & _ > "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ > "User ID=sa;" & _ > "Password=;" > cnn.Open > rst.Source = "Select * from authors" > rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient > rst.Open , cnn > Set Me.Recordset = rst > End Sub > > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > >Martin, > >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 > > > >then change the query to > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > > > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. > >Paul Hartland > >PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM > >>From : "Martin Reid" > >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Copy to : > >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. > > > >Martin > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > >> > >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > >>' Move to the selected page number > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from > >> > >> > >http://www.asp101.com > > > > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > >>in an array > >>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > >>performance > >> > >> > >>Sub AdoPaging() > >>'stolen from > >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > >>Dim CONN_STRING As String > >>Dim CONN_USER As String > >>Dim CONN_PASS As String > >> > >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > >>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > >> > >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > >>' Comment out to use Access > >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > >>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > >>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > >>'CONN_USER = "samples" > >>'CONN_PASS = "password" > >>' END USER CONSTANTS > >> > >>' Declare our vars > >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > >>passing them > >>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > >>iPageSize records > >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > >> > >>' Get parameters > >>' set number of records per page > >> > >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > >> > >>' Set page to show or default to 1 > >> > >>iPageCurrent = 2 > >> > >> > >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something > >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > >>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > >>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > >> > >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > >> > >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > >>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > >> > >> > >>Debug.Print strSQL > >> > >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... > >>' Create and open our connection > >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > >>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > >>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > >>' Create recordset and set the page size > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > >> > >>' You can change other settings as with any RS > >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > >>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > >> > >>' Open RS > >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > >>adCmdText > >> > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > >> > >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) > >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > >>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > >> > >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > >>If iPageCount = 0 Then > >>Debug.Print "No records found!" > >>Else > >>' Move to the selected page > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>' Start output with a page x of n line > >> > >>' Show field names in the top row > >>Dim strtitles As String > >>strtitles = "" > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > >>Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > >> > >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > >>iRecordsShown = 0 > >>Dim strFields As String > >>strFields = "" > >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > >> > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >> > >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > >> > >>Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > >>'clear strfields shown > >>strFields = "" > >> > >>' Increment the number of records we've shown > >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! > >>objPagingRS.MoveNext > >>Loop > >> > >>' All done - close table > >> > >>End If > >> > >>' Close DB objects and free variables > >>objPagingRS.Close > >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing > >>objPagingConn.Close > >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >> > >>Martin Reid wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want > >>> > >>> > >to > > > > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from > >>> > >>> > >SQL > > > > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >>>freely between pages. > >>> > >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > >>> > >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > >>> > >>>MArtin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 14:54:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:54:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7A@main2.marlow.com> Hey, I also develop in SQL Server. It isn't 'derailing' my point, it is missing my point. There is a difference. If you don't set your fields to 'can grow' when needed, and you can't explain to the users that if they type data long then the box you give them, then you do have problems. Big problems. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 4:28 PM: >Ugh. No, that is not where that argument goes. You are building them a >tool in Access. Access suffices for their needs. Why limit them even >further? If it makes you happy, set the field limit to 254, if you don't >want to set it to Access' maximum. The point is, if you think that you'll >probably never go over 50, so you set it at 55, to give yourself 5 extra >characters, why not go the entire way, IN ACCESS, and just use 255. If you >think it is going to be an issue with reporting, or whatever, if someone >puts in more then 50 characters, include data validation that tells the user >that an Address, or Name, or whatever field it is, of that length may not >display properly in some reports. > > > What good is data if they can't use it? If your reports don't display it and they (tho not all clients) aren't smart enough to know to scroll or CTRL-A to get the entire field, what does it matter how "big" you make the field. One of the arguments for the max LENGTH was that it would avoid an unnecessary visit to the client side, however you're still going to have visit them to fix a report or a screen. So what's the difference, that they can store it?, what does it matter, to them they will still say it's "CUT OFF" and YES, I have had this occur, maybe not in the last 3 months but I haven't done any contract work in over a year. >Please stop bringing up the move to SQL server, it's getting very redundant, >and it isn't the point I am trying to make (nor JC). > > I don't think it to be redundant, just that it derails the "POINT" you're trying to make. Not everyone lives in a bubble and some of us do develop in other engines other than Access, such as MS Sql or mySQL.. and by your logic, I should just use the maximum field length because it's THERE. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 14:57:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:57:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7B@main2.marlow.com> Good reason to get involved. It'll probably take a few 'ughs', like I've had lately to really set the mentality I have in stone. I used to be pretty wishy washy on the matter, but have been hit far too many times with this one particular issue. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I really don't think that we disagree. I don't even think what you are doing is wrong. It's more of a practice that I don't follow and you do. The whole reason I got involved in this topic was to see if maybe I should change my practice. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu May 27 15:02:36 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:02:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Message-ID: <83520-22004542720236911@christopherhawkins.com> Hello all! So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. THE CHALLENGE: Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions to view and update it. Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can provide sample code. In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can find... Suggestions? -Christopher Hawkins- From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 15:09:02 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:09:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7A@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B64ADE.4080806@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 12:54 PM: >Hey, I also develop in SQL Server. It isn't 'derailing' my point, it is >missing my point. There is a difference. > >If you don't set your fields to 'can grow' when needed, and you can't >explain to the users that if they type data long then the box you give them, >then you do have problems. Big problems. > > let me clarify this a bit, I have had to work on someone else's db because they set a long field size but reports nor, forms reflected it. Granted the client wasn't computer savy but a few quick changes that I billed at my door service rate and nothing else was all that was needed, Not an Hour and a half like you stated, however if I had needed to increase a field size I doubt it would have taken me that long either way. I don't set limits to fields to restrict the user from doing what they need, I do it to limit how much data should go in that particular field. I determine how big the data should be based on the business rules my client has. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:09:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:09:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7C@main2.marlow.com> > WOW way to burn time... you obviously didn't have the right tools for the job, because if you can ADD and you can DELETE a field, then you can ALTER... and it takes no more than a few minutes, that's w/ the time it takes to find the field and either write up the command or use a gui interface to do it all... 2 fields, that's nothing, you were just using a hammer.... Actually, the 'web interface' tool, that their IT department let me have access to had Add and Delete LINKS. I then had a place to run querries. I couldn't tell if I could run 'scripts' or not. I used my 'copy' on my SQL server, to make a script to do the job. However, what I have at home is named differently, and I was 99% sure I didn't have all of the latest design changes, so I had two problems with trying to use a script to solve. One, I couldn't use the script MY Enterprise Manager created, without modifying it. And to modify it, I would have had to dig through all of the changes that were made to the current system. Two, I wasn't even sure if it would run a script. I said Query, not script. So I used the links provided, and query capabilities provided. I may not have had done the process perfectly. I'll definitely admit that. Of course, the correct way this should have been solved, is for their IT guy to go to the console with Enterprise Manager, and change the field properties and click okay. Work done. However, it was a live system. I was getting zero support from their IT department, so I used a method I was confident I wouldn't screw up their LIVE data with. >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to >where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > > No it's not, and you ripped off your client. Sorry, but unless that's what you charged for just showing up, that's a rip. -- -Francisco No, I didn't rip off my client. It took me an hour and a half to fix a problem HE created. He knows it, I know it. Am I supposed to spend my time fixing his mistakes for free? There was somewhat of a time pressure involved, and I was handed a tool to 'work with' SQL Server that I had never had before. I didn't have any other access to their system. (I couldn't even create an ASP page to do what I wanted to do.) I only had access to this 'web tool'. So trust me, he got off light, with it only taking 1.5 hours. He had already spent FIVE hours trying to figure out how to do anything in that 'web tool'. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:27:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:27:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7F@main2.marlow.com> I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with SQL. It think you are going to have to make a 'change' during import. From what you are describing, it sounds like the only indication of whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit is the order of the dates. I think you are getting a 'group by' deposit type, and sort by type, then date, you're just not getting the deposit type field. Just write an import routine, that reads the data in the same order it is dumped. Set a boolean flag, and a 'temp' date variable. set the date variable to the date you looked at previously, and before you import a record, determine if the date has 'rolled back'. If it has, then set your boolean variable. Use the boolean variable in the line where you record the value, and set it to 0-value if the boolean is set, else, set it to value. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 15:28:20 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:28:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7C@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B64F64.6010003@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 1:09 PM: No, I didn't rip off my client. It took me an hour and a half to fix a problem HE created. He knows it, I know it. Am I supposed to spend my time fixing his mistakes for free? There was somewhat of a time pressure involved, and I was handed a tool to 'work with' SQL Server that I had never had before. I didn't have any other access to their system. (I couldn't even create an ASP page to do what I wanted to do.) I only had access to this 'web tool'. So trust me, he got off light, with it only taking 1.5 hours. He had already spent FIVE hours trying to figure out how to do anything in that 'web tool'. ... This reminds me of that scene in Shainghai Noon where the guy is burried in the dirt, and he is only given chopsticks to dig his way out. :). I've never had a problem w/ clients and their IT people... so I can't say I would have resorted to the same methods you took... in any case you mentioned that he had bad db practices, so choosing an overly restrictive field is very appropriate, still you stuck it to your client who in this case was a developer. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:36:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF80@main2.marlow.com> Yep. LOL. When I did the change in Enterprise manager, Enterprise manager created a page and a half long script. That script actually created a temp table, sent the data to the temp table, then destroyed the original table, and changed the name of the temp table. Here's the script that Enterprise Manager created: /* Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02:46 PM User: Server: DWHOME2000 Database: ******** Application: MS SQLEM - Data Tools */ BEGIN TRANSACTION SET QUOTED_IDENTIFIER ON SET TRANSACTION ISOLATION LEVEL SERIALIZABLE SET ARITHABORT ON SET NUMERIC_ROUNDABORT OFF SET CONCAT_NULL_YIELDS_NULL ON SET ANSI_NULLS ON SET ANSI_PADDING ON SET ANSI_WARNINGS ON COMMIT BEGIN TRANSACTION ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logWorkRelated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRecordable GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logNearMiss GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDeath GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOccupationalIllness GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInPatient GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLeftWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logBackToWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logHospitalized GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDuty GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyRelease GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFinishedTreatment GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationRequested GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferOrTerminated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDrugScreePerformed GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTaskRoutine GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logPPERequiredUse GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_PPE GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Vehicle GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Ergononic GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Law GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Claimcost GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logCA1CA2 GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferred GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOnEmployersPremises GO CREATE TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ( I_pk_Incident int NOT NULL IDENTITY (1, 1) NOT FOR REPLICATION, I_txtCaseNumber nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datDateAddedToTable datetime NULL, I_txtCaseCode nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtCaseYear nvarchar(2) NULL, I_txtCaseCount nvarchar(4) NULL, I_txtPersonID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSocialSecurityNumber nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtPersonFullName nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtMiddleName nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtLastName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtStreetAddress1 nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtStreetAddress2 nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtCity nvarchar(35) NULL, I_txtState nvarchar(2) NULL, I_txtZipCode nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtSex nvarchar(1) NULL, I_txtCompanyID nvarchar(20) NULL, I_txtCompany_Name nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtSiteID nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtSiteName nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtSiteNamePerson nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtHierarchy1 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy2 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy3 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy4 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy5 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtOrganizationalCode1 nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtOrganizationalCode2 nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtMaritalStatus nvarchar(20) NULL, I_datDateOfBirth datetime NULL, I_txtHomePhone nvarchar(14) NULL, I_txtJobTitle nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtShift nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtShiftDescription nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtPersonnelStatus nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtWorkPhoneNumber nvarchar(14) NULL, I_txtEmailAddress nvarchar(50) NULL, I_datDateOfHire datetime NULL, I_txtMailStop nvarchar(25) NULL, I_txtIncidentType nvarchar(40) NULL, I_datIncidentDate datetime NULL, I_datIncidentTime varchar(50) NULL, I_logWorkRelated bit NOT NULL, I_logRecordable bit NOT NULL, I_logNearMiss bit NOT NULL, I_txtSeverityofIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtNatureOfInury nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtBodyPart nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtBodyPartSide nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtBodyPartSecondary nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtSourceOfIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtSecondarySourceOfIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtAccidentEventType nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtRegularJobClass nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtJobClassAtIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_intHoursWorkedPriorToIncident smallint NULL, I_logDeath bit NOT NULL, I_datDateOfDeath datetime NULL, I_logOccupationalIllness bit NOT NULL, I_txtIllnessDescription nvarchar(60) NULL, I_txtWorksiteLocation nvarchar(255) NULL, I_txtHospitalID nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtHospitalName nvarchar(50) NULL, I_logInPatient bit NOT NULL, I_txtDoctorID nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtDoctorName nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtSupervisorNotified nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtSupervisorFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtSupervisorLastName nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtWitnessEmployeeID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtWitnessFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtWitnessLastName nvarchar(11) NULL, I_datDateNotifiedOfIncident datetime NULL, I_datTimeNotifiedOfIncident varchar(50) NULL, I_datTimeBeganWork varchar(50) NULL, I_logLeftWork bit NOT NULL, I_datDateLeftWork datetime NULL, I_datTimeLeftWork datetime NULL, I_logBackToWork bit NOT NULL, I_datDateBackToWork datetime NULL, I_datTimeBackToWork datetime NULL, I_txtOSHALogDescription nvarchar(60) NULL, I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern bit NOT NULL, I_txtFirstAidProvidedTime datetime NULL, I_txtFirstAidTypeProvided nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtFirstAidPersonFullName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_txtFirstAidEmployeeID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtFirstAidFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtFirstAidLastName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_logHospitalized bit NOT NULL, I_datDateOfInitialTreatment datetime NULL, I_datTimeAdmittedToHospital datetime NULL, I_datDateOutOfHospital datetime NULL, I_datTimeOutOfHospital datetime NULL, I_intWorkDaysLost smallint NULL, I_intChargedDaysLost smallint NULL, I_intCalendarDaysLost smallint NULL, I_logRestrictedDuty bit NOT NULL, I_logRestrictedDutyRelease bit NOT NULL, I_intRestrictedDutyDays smallint NULL, I_intRestrictedDutyCalendarDays smallint NULL, I_logFinishedTreatment bit NOT NULL, I_datRestrictedDutyCheckupDate datetime NULL, I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone bit NOT NULL, I_logEvaluationRequested bit NOT NULL, I_txtEvaluationType nvarchar(40) NULL, I_logEvaluationCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_datEvaluationCompletionDate datetime NULL, I_datEvaluationFollowupDate datetime NULL, I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_datReportCirculationDate datetime NULL, I_logTransferOrTerminated bit NOT NULL, I_intAccidentLocation smallint NULL, I_txtAccidentLocationInsurance nvarchar(35) NULL, I_logDrugScreePerformed bit NOT NULL, I_datDrugScreenPerformedDate datetime NULL, I_txtTaskPerformed nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtTaskExperience nvarchar(40) NULL, I_logTaskRoutine bit NOT NULL, I_txTaskTimeSinceLastPerformed nvarchar(10) NULL, I_datTaskLastTrainedOn datetime NULL, I_txtTaskTrainerName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_logPPERequiredUse bit NOT NULL, I_txtPPETypeRequired nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtPPETypeUsed nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtContributingConditions nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtContributingActions nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtEquipmentProcess nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtEquipmentProcessPart nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtJobTrainingDescription nvarchar(40) NULL, I_datShortTermCompletionDate datetime NULL, I_datShortTermFollowupDate datetime NULL, I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_datLongTermCompletionDate datetime NULL, I_datLongTermFollowupDate datetime NULL, I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_txtSupervisorID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSupervisorName nvarchar(35) NULL, I_datSupervisorReviewedDate datetime NULL, I_txtSupervisorWorkPhoneNumber nvarchar(13) NULL, I_txtSupervisorMailStop nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtPlantManagerID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtPlantManagerName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datPlantManagerReviewDate datetime NULL, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datSafetyCoordinatorReviewDate datetime NULL, I_txtSafetyDirectorID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSafetyDirectorName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datSafetyDirectorReviewDate datetime NULL, I_logFlag_PPE bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Vehicle bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Ergononic bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Law bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Claimcost bit NOT NULL, I_logCA1CA2 bit NOT NULL, I_Tag nvarchar(50) NULL, I_intYear smallint NULL, I_txtMonth nvarchar(2) NULL, I_datDateLastUpdated datetime NULL, I_logTransferred bit NOT NULL, I_curTotalCost money NULL, I_curTotalInitialReserves money NULL, I_logOnEmployersPremises bit NOT NULL, I_CurDemand money NULL, I_txtAssigned nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtBenefits nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtRepresentation nvarchar(50) NULL ) ON [PRIMARY] GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logWorkRelated DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logWorkRelated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRecordable DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRecordable GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logNearMiss DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logNearMiss GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDeath DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logDeath GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOccupationalIllness DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logOccupationalIllness GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInPatient DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logInPatient GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLeftWork DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logLeftWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logBackToWork DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logBackToWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logHospitalized DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logHospitalized GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDuty DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRestrictedDuty GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyRelease DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRestrictedDutyRelease GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFinishedTreatment DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFinishedTreatment GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationRequested DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logEvaluationRequested GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logEvaluationCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferOrTerminated DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logTransferOrTerminated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDrugScreePerformed DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logDrugScreePerformed GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTaskRoutine DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logTaskRoutine GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logPPERequiredUse DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logPPERequiredUse GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_PPE DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_PPE GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Vehicle DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Vehicle GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Ergononic DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Ergononic GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Law DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Law GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Claimcost DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Claimcost GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logCA1CA2 DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logCA1CA2 GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferred DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logTransferred GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOnEmployersPremises DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logOnEmployersPremises GO SET IDENTITY_INSERT dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ON GO IF EXISTS(SELECT * FROM dbo.tblIncidents) EXEC('INSERT INTO dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents (I_pk_Incident, I_txtCaseNumber, I_datDateAddedToTable, I_txtCaseCode, I_txtCaseYear, I_txtCaseCount, I_txtPersonID, I_txtSocialSecurityNumber, I_txtPersonFullName, I_txtFirstName, I_txtMiddleName, I_txtLastName, I_txtStreetAddress1, I_txtStreetAddress2, I_txtCity, I_txtState, I_txtZipCode, I_txtSex, I_txtCompanyID, I_txtCompany_Name, I_txtSiteID, I_txtSiteName, I_txtSiteNamePerson, I_txtHierarchy1, I_txtHierarchy2, I_txtHierarchy3, I_txtHierarchy4, I_txtHierarchy5, I_txtOrganizationalCode1, I_txtOrganizationalCode2, I_txtMaritalStatus, I_datDateOfBirth, I_txtHomePhone, I_txtJobTitle, I_txtShift, I_txtShiftDescription, I_txtPersonnelStatus, I_txtWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtEmailAddress, I_datDateOfHire, I_txtMailStop, I_txtIncidentType, I_datIncidentDate, I_datIncidentTime, I_logWorkRelated, I_logRecordable, I_logNearMiss, I_txtSeverityofIncident, I_txtNatureOfInury, I_txtBodyPart, I_txtBodyPartSide, I_txtBodyPartSecondary, I_txtSourceOfIncident, I_txtSecondarySourceOfIncident, I_txtAccidentEventType, I_txtRegularJobClass, I_txtJobClassAtIncident, I_intHoursWorkedPriorToIncident, I_logDeath, I_datDateOfDeath, I_logOccupationalIllness, I_txtIllnessDescription, I_txtWorksiteLocation, I_txtHospitalID, I_txtHospitalName, I_logInPatient, I_txtDoctorID, I_txtDoctorName, I_txtSupervisorNotified, I_txtSupervisorFirstName, I_txtSupervisorLastName, I_txtWitnessEmployeeID, I_txtWitnessFirstName, I_txtWitnessLastName, I_datDateNotifiedOfIncident, I_datTimeNotifiedOfIncident, I_datTimeBeganWork, I_logLeftWork, I_datDateLeftWork, I_datTimeLeftWork, I_logBackToWork, I_datDateBackToWork, I_datTimeBackToWork, I_txtOSHALogDescription, I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern, I_txtFirstAidProvidedTime, I_txtFirstAidTypeProvided, I_txtFirstAidPersonFullName, I_txtFirstAidEmployeeID, I_txtFirstAidFirstName, I_txtFirstAidLastName, I_logHospitalized, I_datDateOfInitialTreatment, I_datTimeAdmittedToHospital, I_datDateOutOfHospital, I_datTimeOutOfHospital, I_intWorkDaysLost, I_intChargedDaysLost, I_intCalendarDaysLost, I_logRestrictedDuty, I_logRestrictedDutyRelease, I_intRestrictedDutyDays, I_intRestrictedDutyCalendarDays, I_logFinishedTreatment, I_datRestrictedDutyCheckupDate, I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone, I_logEvaluationRequested, I_txtEvaluationType, I_logEvaluationCompleted, I_datEvaluationCompletionDate, I_datEvaluationFollowupDate, I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted, I_datReportCirculationDate, I_logTransferOrTerminated, I_intAccidentLocation, I_txtAccidentLocationInsurance, I_logDrugScreePerformed, I_datDrugScreenPerformedDate, I_txtTaskPerformed, I_txtTaskExperience, I_logTaskRoutine, I_txTaskTimeSinceLastPerformed, I_datTaskLastTrainedOn, I_txtTaskTrainerName, I_logPPERequiredUse, I_txtPPETypeRequired, I_txtPPETypeUsed, I_txtContributingConditions, I_txtContributingActions, I_txtEquipmentProcess, I_txtEquipmentProcessPart, I_txtJobTrainingDescription, I_datShortTermCompletionDate, I_datShortTermFollowupDate, I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted, I_datLongTermCompletionDate, I_datLongTermFollowupDate, I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted, I_txtSupervisorID, I_txtSupervisorName, I_datSupervisorReviewedDate, I_txtSupervisorWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtSupervisorMailStop, I_txtPlantManagerID, I_txtPlantManagerName, I_datPlantManagerReviewDate, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorID, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorName, I_datSafetyCoordinatorReviewDate, I_txtSafetyDirectorID, I_txtSafetyDirectorName, I_datSafetyDirectorReviewDate, I_logFlag_PPE, I_logFlag_Vehicle, I_logFlag_Ergononic, I_logFlag_Law, I_logFlag_Claimcost, I_logCA1CA2, I_Tag, I_intYear, I_txtMonth, I_datDateLastUpdated, I_logTransferred, I_curTotalCost, I_curTotalInitialReserves, I_logOnEmployersPremises, I_CurDemand, I_txtAssigned, I_txtBenefits, I_txtRepresentation) SELECT I_pk_Incident, I_txtCaseNumber, I_datDateAddedToTable, I_txtCaseCode, I_txtCaseYear, I_txtCaseCount, I_txtPersonID, I_txtSocialSecurityNumber, I_txtPersonFullName, I_txtFirstName, I_txtMiddleName, I_txtLastName, I_txtStreetAddress1, I_txtStreetAddress2, I_txtCity, I_txtState, I_txtZipCode, I_txtSex, I_txtCompanyID, I_txtCompany_Name, I_txtSiteID, I_txtSiteName, I_txtSiteNamePerson, I_txtHierarchy1, I_txtHierarchy2, I_txtHierarchy3, I_txtHierarchy4, I_txtHierarchy5, I_txtOrganizationalCode1, I_txtOrganizationalCode2, I_txtMaritalStatus, I_datDateOfBirth, I_txtHomePhone, I_txtJobTitle, I_txtShift, I_txtShiftDescription, I_txtPersonnelStatus, I_txtWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtEmailAddress, I_datDateOfHire, I_txtMailStop, I_txtIncidentType, I_datIncidentDate, CONVERT(varchar(50), I_datIncidentTime), I_logWorkRelated, I_logRecordable, I_logNearMiss, I_txtSeverityofIncident, I_txtNatureOfInury, I_txtBodyPart, I_txtBodyPartSide, I_txtBodyPartSecondary, I_txtSourceOfIncident, I_txtSecondarySourceOfIncident, I_txtAccidentEventType, I_txtRegularJobClass, I_txtJobClassAtIncident, I_intHoursWorkedPriorToIncident, I_logDeath, I_datDateOfDeath, I_logOccupationalIllness, I_txtIllnessDescription, I_txtWorksiteLocation, I_txtHospitalID, I_txtHospitalName, I_logInPatient, I_txtDoctorID, I_txtDoctorName, I_txtSupervisorNotified, I_txtSupervisorFirstName, I_txtSupervisorLastName, I_txtWitnessEmployeeID, I_txtWitnessFirstName, I_txtWitnessLastName, I_datDateNotifiedOfIncident, CONVERT(varchar(50), I_datTimeNotifiedOfIncident), CONVERT(varchar(50), I_datTimeBeganWork), I_logLeftWork, I_datDateLeftWork, I_datTimeLeftWork, I_logBackToWork, I_datDateBackToWork, I_datTimeBackToWork, I_txtOSHALogDescription, I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern, I_txtFirstAidProvidedTime, I_txtFirstAidTypeProvided, I_txtFirstAidPersonFullName, I_txtFirstAidEmployeeID, I_txtFirstAidFirstName, I_txtFirstAidLastName, I_logHospitalized, I_datDateOfInitialTreatment, I_datTimeAdmittedToHospital, I_datDateOutOfHospital, I_datTimeOutOfHospital, I_intWorkDaysLost, I_intChargedDaysLost, I_intCalendarDaysLost, I_logRestrictedDuty, I_logRestrictedDutyRelease, I_intRestrictedDutyDays, I_intRestrictedDutyCalendarDays, I_logFinishedTreatment, I_datRestrictedDutyCheckupDate, I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone, I_logEvaluationRequested, I_txtEvaluationType, I_logEvaluationCompleted, I_datEvaluationCompletionDate, I_datEvaluationFollowupDate, I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted, I_datReportCirculationDate, I_logTransferOrTerminated, I_intAccidentLocation, I_txtAccidentLocationInsurance, I_logDrugScreePerformed, I_datDrugScreenPerformedDate, I_txtTaskPerformed, I_txtTaskExperience, I_logTaskRoutine, I_txTaskTimeSinceLastPerformed, I_datTaskLastTrainedOn, I_txtTaskTrainerName, I_logPPERequiredUse, I_txtPPETypeRequired, I_txtPPETypeUsed, I_txtContributingConditions, I_txtContributingActions, I_txtEquipmentProcess, I_txtEquipmentProcessPart, I_txtJobTrainingDescription, I_datShortTermCompletionDate, I_datShortTermFollowupDate, I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted, I_datLongTermCompletionDate, I_datLongTermFollowupDate, I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted, I_txtSupervisorID, I_txtSupervisorName, I_datSupervisorReviewedDate, I_txtSupervisorWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtSupervisorMailStop, I_txtPlantManagerID, I_txtPlantManagerName, I_datPlantManagerReviewDate, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorID, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorName, I_datSafetyCoordinatorReviewDate, I_txtSafetyDirectorID, I_txtSafetyDirectorName, I_datSafetyDirectorReviewDate, I_logFlag_PPE, I_logFlag_Vehicle, I_logFlag_Ergononic, I_logFlag_Law, I_logFlag_Claimcost, I_logCA1CA2, I_Tag, I_intYear, I_txtMonth, I_datDateLastUpdated, I_logTransferred, I_curTotalCost, I_curTotalInitialReserves, I_logOnEmployersPremises, I_CurDemand, I_txtAssigned, I_txtBenefits, I_txtRepresentation FROM dbo.tblIncidents TABLOCKX') GO SET IDENTITY_INSERT dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents OFF GO DROP TABLE dbo.tblIncidents GO EXECUTE sp_rename N'dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents', N'tblIncidents', 'OBJECT' GO GRANT SELECT ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo GRANT UPDATE ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo GRANT INSERT ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo GRANT DELETE ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo COMMIT Honestly never used ALTER COLUMN before. I will admit I am still a novice at SQL Server. But I can do all of the stuff I need from Enterprise Manager just fine. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various So let me get this straight... You just got paid $150 to do what could have been accomplished with the following SQL statement: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN MyField varchar(255) So, can you pass along my name to them? Heck, I'd be willing to do that for a mere $75! ;-) From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 27 15:39:29 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:39:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? In-Reply-To: <83520-22004542720236911@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000001c4442a$b5468770$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Christopher Try something like this. You must set a Reference to the Outlook Library. Function CreateContact(frm As Form) Dim objOutlook As Outlook.Application Dim objOutlookNameSpace As Outlook.NameSpace Dim objOutlookItem As Outlook.ContactItem Dim objOutlookFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder 'Create the Outlook session Set objOutlook = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") Set objOutlookNameSpace = objOutlook.GetNamespace("MAPI") 'Amend this line to get your contacts folder. Set objOutlookFolder = objOutlookNameSpace.Folders("Public Folders Or Your Top Level").Folders("Next Level").Folders("And So On To Your Folder") Set objOutlookItem = objOutlookFolder.Items.Add(olContactItem) With objOutlookItem .BusinessFaxNumber = Nz(frm!txtFax, "") .BusinessTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtPhone, "") .CompanyName = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName, "") .Department = Nz(frm!txtDept, "") .Email1AddressType = "SMTP" .Email1Address = Nz(frm!txtEmail, "") .FileAs = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") .Fullname = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") .JobTitle = Nz(frm!txtJobTitle, "") .MobileTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtMobile, "") .Subject = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName & " (" & frm!txtContactName & ")", "") .Save End With Exit_CreateContact: Call SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) Set objOutlookItem = Nothing Set objOutlookFolder = Nothing Set objOutlookNameSpace = Nothing Set objOutlook = Nothing End Function -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: 27 May 2004 21:03 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? > > > Hello all! > > So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction > with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea > how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. > > THE CHALLENGE: > > Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must > add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution > list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. > > The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's > Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions > to view and update it. > > Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for > Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can > provide sample code. > > In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can find... > > Suggestions? > > -Christopher Hawkins- > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:38:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:38:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF81@main2.marlow.com> I just changed the 'default' text field size for Access to 255, cause I am lazy too. All my fields default to 255 that way. (Though I admit before I changed the 'Access' setting, I was leaving them at 50, unless I thought it would get close). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 or maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to Access' table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the table design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big deal, there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would irk me more than this. BUT ... Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved into a waste of bits and bandwidth. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past >few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was >Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But >I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >isolated incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:47:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:47:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF82@main2.marlow.com> Their was an Add-in, for Access 97, to link Exchange/Outlook tables. In A2k it was included. When you use the Link Table wizard, change the database type from Access to Exchange (Or Outlook). It will then lookup your current MAPI profile, and display what you would see in the Outlook Folder List. Pick a folder, and the wizard then creates a linked table for that folder. I recommend for testing, that you actually IMPORT the data, to test it in a truly Access table, then switch back to a linked Exchange table. Linked Exchange tables seem a little bit slow. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Hello all! So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. THE CHALLENGE: Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions to view and update it. Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can provide sample code. In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can find... Suggestions? -Christopher Hawkins- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu May 27 15:58:38 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:58:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Message-ID: <254630-220045427205838736@christopherhawkins.com> Andy, This looks good for creating the contact. Do you also have sample code to add a contact to a distribution list? -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:39:29 +0100 >Christopher > >Try something like this. You must set a Reference to the Outlook >Library. > > >Function CreateContact(frm As Form) >Dim objOutlook As Outlook.Application >Dim objOutlookNameSpace As Outlook.NameSpace >Dim objOutlookItem As Outlook.ContactItem >Dim objOutlookFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > >'Create the Outlook session >Set objOutlook = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") >Set objOutlookNameSpace = objOutlook.GetNamespace("MAPI") >'Amend this line to get your contacts folder. >Set objOutlookFolder = objOutlookNameSpace.Folders("Public Folders >Or Your >Top Level").Folders("Next Level").Folders("And So On To Your Folder") > >Set objOutlookItem = objOutlookFolder.Items.Add(olContactItem) >With objOutlookItem > .BusinessFaxNumber = Nz(frm!txtFax, "") > .BusinessTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtPhone, "") > .CompanyName = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName, "") > .Department = Nz(frm!txtDept, "") > .Email1AddressType = "SMTP" > .Email1Address = Nz(frm!txtEmail, "") > .FileAs = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > .Fullname = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > .JobTitle = Nz(frm!txtJobTitle, "") > .MobileTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtMobile, "") > .Subject = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName & " (" & frm!txtContactName & >")", "") > .Save >End With > >Exit_CreateContact: >Call SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) >Set objOutlookItem = Nothing >Set objOutlookFolder = Nothing >Set objOutlookNameSpace = Nothing >Set objOutlook = Nothing >End Function > > >-- Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Christopher Hawkins >> Sent: 27 May 2004 21:03 >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution >List? >> >> >> Hello all! >> >> So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction >> with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea >> how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. >> >> THE CHALLENGE: >> >> Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must >> add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution >> list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. >> >> The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's >> Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions >> to view and update it. >> >> Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for >> Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can >> provide sample code. >> >> In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can >find... >> >> Suggestions? >> >> -Christopher Hawkins- >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd >> Website: >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Thu May 27 16:04:45 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:04:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08D6CC03@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Yeah, but what happens if an account has only deposits or only withdrawals? Or how about if the first deposit is dated *after* the last withdrawal? Unless there's some other indicator in the record, there won't be a perfectly reliable way to separate deposits from withdrawals. IIRC, Monarch is a tool that parses text files representing "formatted reports." In the "report" there must be some indicator that identifies deposits, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make sense of it when reading it. You should be able to instruct Monarch to capture that identifying characteristic (even if it contains something meaningless for withdrawals) and then use that to segregate the transactions. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with SQL. It think you are going to have to make a 'change' during import. From what you are describing, it sounds like the only indication of whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit is the order of the dates. I think you are getting a 'group by' deposit type, and sort by type, then date, you're just not getting the deposit type field. Just write an import routine, that reads the data in the same order it is dumped. Set a boolean flag, and a 'temp' date variable. set the date variable to the date you looked at previously, and before you import a record, determine if the date has 'rolled back'. If it has, then set your boolean variable. Use the boolean variable in the line where you record the value, and set it to 0-value if the boolean is set, else, set it to value. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Thu May 27 16:06:42 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:06:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <200405272105.RAA04353@jake.bcentralhost.com> Jim: If you are using Monarch Pro to parse the bank statement, it may be possible to capture deposit or withdrawal as part of the data. Does the bank statement have the word "Deposit" somewhere before the deposit records and "Withdrawals" before the withdrawal records, or some other distictive text that separates the two? If so, you should be able to capture that and add it to each record. You can set up an Append Template to search for specific text and add that to all subsequent records. I've done that in the past with some fairly complicated mainframe reports that we needed to parse and with a little creative trial and error, you can often differentiate records that look identical as long as there is some header information somewhere in the report. A purely Access solution would be to open a recordset and walk through it one record at a time, convert fldDate to a real date and compare that to the fldDate of the previous record. When the new date is earlier than the previous date, you know that record, and all the the rest of the records, are withdrawals and you can update fldAmt to fldAmt * -1.0 . James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 27 16:09:05 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:09:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? In-Reply-To: <254630-220045427205838736@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000201c4442e$d7f83990$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Never done it but give me a few minutes. I'll see what I can do. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: 27 May 2004 21:59 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook > Distibution List? > > > Andy, > > This looks good for creating the contact. Do you also have > sample code to add a contact to a distribution list? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook > Distibution List? > Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:39:29 +0100 > > >Christopher > > > >Try something like this. You must set a Reference to the Outlook > >Library. > > > > > >Function CreateContact(frm As Form) > >Dim objOutlook As Outlook.Application > >Dim objOutlookNameSpace As Outlook.NameSpace > >Dim objOutlookItem As Outlook.ContactItem > >Dim objOutlookFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > > > >'Create the Outlook session > >Set objOutlook = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") > >Set objOutlookNameSpace = objOutlook.GetNamespace("MAPI") > 'Amend this > >line to get your contacts folder. Set objOutlookFolder = > >objOutlookNameSpace.Folders("Public Folders Or Your > >Top Level").Folders("Next Level").Folders("And So On To Your Folder") > > > >Set objOutlookItem = objOutlookFolder.Items.Add(olContactItem) > >With objOutlookItem > > .BusinessFaxNumber = Nz(frm!txtFax, "") > > .BusinessTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtPhone, "") > > .CompanyName = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName, "") > > .Department = Nz(frm!txtDept, "") > > .Email1AddressType = "SMTP" > > .Email1Address = Nz(frm!txtEmail, "") > > .FileAs = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > > .Fullname = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > > .JobTitle = Nz(frm!txtJobTitle, "") > > .MobileTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtMobile, "") > > .Subject = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName & " (" & frm!txtContactName & > >")", "") > > .Save > >End With > > > >Exit_CreateContact: > >Call SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > >Set objOutlookItem = Nothing > >Set objOutlookFolder = Nothing > >Set objOutlookNameSpace = Nothing > >Set objOutlook = Nothing > >End Function > > > > > >-- Andy Lacey > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >> Christopher Hawkins > >> Sent: 27 May 2004 21:03 > >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >> Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution > >List? > >> > >> > >> Hello all! > >> > >> So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction > >> with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea > >> how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. > >> > >> THE CHALLENGE: > >> > >> Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must > >> add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution > >> list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. > >> > >> The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's > >> Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions > >> to view and update it. > >> > >> Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for > >> Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can > >> provide sample code. > >> > >> In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can > >find... > >> > >> Suggestions? > >> > >> -Christopher Hawkins- > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > >> Website: > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 16:10:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:10:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF83@main2.marlow.com> ... This reminds me of that scene in Shainghai Noon where the guy is burried in the dirt, and he is only given chopsticks to dig his way out. :). I've never had a problem w/ clients and their IT people... so I can't say I would have resorted to the same methods you took... in any case you mentioned that he had bad db practices, so choosing an overly restrictive field is very appropriate, still you stuck it to your client who in this case was a developer. -- -Francisco Well it's a back and forth issue on this particular project. I won't go into details on that. Don't take this particular case as typical with me. I do a LOT of work for this particular guy. Sometimes he gets the deal of the century from me, sometimes he gives me way more then what I did for the project, and sometimes it's just even. This particular job was one where we both got hammered really hard. He made a lot of decisions with that job, that I strongly disagreed with, and he knew it. So yes, I stuck him, because it was his decision for a lot of things. We were fought by their IT department on a lot of things too, and this guy doesn't have my IT experience to really bypass their issues. Yes, it was a lot like the scene you describe (though I haven't seen the movie, I understand the premise). There were a lot of other issues too. His client contacts me with issues. If it's an issue I am responsible for, I fix without charge, or hassle. If it's his arena, or new specs, I go through him, and ignore his client. But I went to this client a while back, with the developer, and while there, I fixed some of the 'data' issues (Not problems with my stuff, and not really problems with his stuff, just people entering incorrect data....which kind of leans towards his problems, cause he uses .... ahem... user entered text fields as primary keys.... (please, those of you faint of heart, please go outside and relax for a bit, I promise I won't shock you again like that in this email. ). During that 'meeting'/'local fix time', there were a few field issues, which he (MY client, the developer) said he would change. Three weeks go by, and I have his client asking me when the changes are going to be made. No one can get ahold of him, they are getting very impatient. So I made the call to go ahead and fix them. I first asked their IT department to do it. (described exactly what they needed to do...would have taken THEM about 2 minutes, if that). I had talked to the developer before hand, and he said he had spent a lot of time muddling around in that 'web tool', and had no idea how to make the changes. So with all of that behind me, I did what I knew how to do, safely, and it worked. And your gosh darn right I stuck it too him. I didn't hold him at gun point though. He and I trade services quite often, so he could have bartered with me. But he didn't even try. I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. Just as another little peice of info, I've moved 3 times in the past year (once because of a woman....., once because of a fire, and once to get away from a woman. Actually, the fire was started (supposedly) by some kid being pissed at a girlfriend, and tossing a maltose (sp?) cocktail in her window. So, I've moved three time because of women. Okay, this is getting OT.) Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. We have a pretty solid relationship. Drew From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 27 16:29:05 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: On the flip side, Drew. If the client had the field size set to the max and was only using a very small portion of that max and then suddenly started using a large portion of that field(because a business rule changed), you may have problems with complex reports that take way more than 1 & 1/2 hours to fix. You may also have other issues, like database growth that wasn't planned for. I know I'm reaching, just curious. One abuse I can think of was a client that started putting in Husband and Wife names into the firstname field (that I set at 50 characters). This caused mailing and invoice problems as well as office confusion. Sure, you may say that this is a training issue, but they did it because it worked around a new business requirement that the program lacked. In most cases, their work around didn't cause a problem. When it did cause a problem guess who got the blame? The client only calls when there are problems. It doesn't matter if it's a field being too small or too big. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > WOW way to burn time... you obviously didn't have the right tools for the job, because if you can ADD and you can DELETE a field, then you can ALTER... and it takes no more than a few minutes, that's w/ the time it takes to find the field and either write up the command or use a gui interface to do it all... 2 fields, that's nothing, you were just using a hammer.... Actually, the 'web interface' tool, that their IT department let me have access to had Add and Delete LINKS. I then had a place to run querries. I couldn't tell if I could run 'scripts' or not. I used my 'copy' on my SQL server, to make a script to do the job. However, what I have at home is named differently, and I was 99% sure I didn't have all of the latest design changes, so I had two problems with trying to use a script to solve. One, I couldn't use the script MY Enterprise Manager created, without modifying it. And to modify it, I would have had to dig through all of the changes that were made to the current system. Two, I wasn't even sure if it would run a script. I said Query, not script. So I used the links provided, and query capabilities provided. I may not have had done the process perfectly. I'll definitely admit that. Of course, the correct way this should have been solved, is for their IT guy to go to the console with Enterprise Manager, and change the field properties and click okay. Work done. However, it was a live system. I was getting zero support from their IT department, so I used a method I was confident I wouldn't screw up their LIVE data with. >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to >where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > > No it's not, and you ripped off your client. Sorry, but unless that's what you charged for just showing up, that's a rip. -- -Francisco No, I didn't rip off my client. It took me an hour and a half to fix a problem HE created. He knows it, I know it. Am I supposed to spend my time fixing his mistakes for free? There was somewhat of a time pressure involved, and I was handed a tool to 'work with' SQL Server that I had never had before. I didn't have any other access to their system. (I couldn't even create an ASP page to do what I wanted to do.) I only had access to this 'web tool'. So trust me, he got off light, with it only taking 1.5 hours. He had already spent FIVE hours trying to figure out how to do anything in that 'web tool'. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 27 16:45:38 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:45:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE616@TAPPEEXCH01> >Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. Sure, any good friend would help you move... But would he help you move a BODY? Aw c'mon people, laugh a little! It's Friday somewhere! -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:11 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various ... This reminds me of that scene in Shainghai Noon where the guy is burried in the dirt, and he is only given chopsticks to dig his way out. :). I've never had a problem w/ clients and their IT people... so I can't say I would have resorted to the same methods you took... in any case you mentioned that he had bad db practices, so choosing an overly restrictive field is very appropriate, still you stuck it to your client who in this case was a developer. -- -Francisco Well it's a back and forth issue on this particular project. I won't go into details on that. Don't take this particular case as typical with me. I do a LOT of work for this particular guy. Sometimes he gets the deal of the century from me, sometimes he gives me way more then what I did for the project, and sometimes it's just even. This particular job was one where we both got hammered really hard. He made a lot of decisions with that job, that I strongly disagreed with, and he knew it. So yes, I stuck him, because it was his decision for a lot of things. We were fought by their IT department on a lot of things too, and this guy doesn't have my IT experience to really bypass their issues. Yes, it was a lot like the scene you describe (though I haven't seen the movie, I understand the premise). There were a lot of other issues too. His client contacts me with issues. If it's an issue I am responsible for, I fix without charge, or hassle. If it's his arena, or new specs, I go through him, and ignore his client. But I went to this client a while back, with the developer, and while there, I fixed some of the 'data' issues (Not problems with my stuff, and not really problems with his stuff, just people entering incorrect data....which kind of leans towards his problems, cause he uses .... ahem... user entered text fields as primary keys.... (please, those of you faint of heart, please go outside and relax for a bit, I promise I won't shock you again like that in this email. ). During that 'meeting'/'local fix time', there were a few field issues, which he (MY client, the developer) said he would change. Three weeks go by, and I have his client asking me when the changes are going to be made. No one can get ahold of him, they are getting very impatient. So I made the call to go ahead and fix them. I first asked their IT department to do it. (described exactly what they needed to do...would have taken THEM about 2 minutes, if that). I had talked to the developer before hand, and he said he had spent a lot of time muddling around in that 'web tool', and had no idea how to make the changes. So with all of that behind me, I did what I knew how to do, safely, and it worked. And your gosh darn right I stuck it too him. I didn't hold him at gun point though. He and I trade services quite often, so he could have bartered with me. But he didn't even try. I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. Just as another little peice of info, I've moved 3 times in the past year (once because of a woman....., once because of a fire, and once to get away from a woman. Actually, the fire was started (supposedly) by some kid being pissed at a girlfriend, and tossing a maltose (sp?) cocktail in her window. So, I've moved three time because of women. Okay, this is getting OT.) Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. We have a pretty solid relationship. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 16:50:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:50:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF84@main2.marlow.com> LOL. He probably would. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. Sure, any good friend would help you move... But would he help you move a BODY? Aw c'mon people, laugh a little! It's Friday somewhere! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 17:02:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:02:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF85@main2.marlow.com> Good points, but in 99% of the stuff I deal with, they don't apply. I build mostly ASP interfaces. In this particular case, the data was now in SQL server, so db size is neglible. That was the case even in Access. They do have a SLOW SQL server though. Since the interface (for both data entry and reporting) is in ASP, the HTML doesn't care how long the data is, it's in an HTML table, and there is never an issue of getting stuff cut off. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On the flip side, Drew. If the client had the field size set to the max and was only using a very small portion of that max and then suddenly started using a large portion of that field(because a business rule changed), you may have problems with complex reports that take way more than 1 & 1/2 hours to fix. You may also have other issues, like database growth that wasn't planned for. I know I'm reaching, just curious. One abuse I can think of was a client that started putting in Husband and Wife names into the firstname field (that I set at 50 characters). This caused mailing and invoice problems as well as office confusion. Sure, you may say that this is a training issue, but they did it because it worked around a new business requirement that the program lacked. In most cases, their work around didn't cause a problem. When it did cause a problem guess who got the blame? The client only calls when there are problems. It doesn't matter if it's a field being too small or too big. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 17:19:10 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:19:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF83@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF83@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B6695E.60900@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 2:10 PM: I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. sounds completely like you both had a bad client problem. -- -Francisco From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu May 27 16:40:21 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:40:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <001901c4441c$4878b5e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <00f301c44433$36c83d90$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Martin, I recall an article on this recently, but couldn't find it. I did find these references: Manual Paging: http://mceahern.manilasites.com/dotnet/pagingpart1 Thread: How to limit the result set for performance: http://www.sqljunkies.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=373 Paging through Records using a Stored Procedure: http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/062899-1.shtml Hope this puts you on the right track-- -Ken From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 27 17:47:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:47:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B6FCA1.14232.3581895@localhost> On 27 May 2004 at 9:22, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > Andy's interpretation of my comments is correct. Here is an example: > > tblPhotos tblProperties > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID > PhotoPath pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. > PhotoComments etc. > This won't work - Properties->Photos and AccomUnits->Photos are both OneToMany > Or > > tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties > PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. etc. > PhotoComments etc. etc. > Since it's not ManyToMany. the tblPropertyPhotos is redundant, you could achieve exactly the same thing with a fkPropertyId in tblPhotos. Unfortunately, neither deal with the current situation, which is that some photos relate to tblProperties and some photos relate to tlbAccomUNits. I'm actually looking for pointer as to the best way to handle child records which are identical except that they have parents in different tables (in this case with a further parent/child relationship to consider) AccomUnits are Children of Properties. Photos can be either children of AccomUnits( therefore Grandchildren of Properties) or direct children of properties. (Sort of like a hillbilly family ) where you will have EITHER a direct link through FKProp or FPAccomUnit (but never both) and where tblAccomUnit also has a FKProperty. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 17:47:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:47:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF8A@main2.marlow.com> Yep. Sure did. LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 5:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 2:10 PM: I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. sounds completely like you both had a bad client problem. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 27 18:05:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jcolby) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:05:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000201c44419$6c069b60$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: >Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that Nice to hear that. The answer is, I got very busy and no one else seems to want to contribute on the subject. ;-) JWColby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 or maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to Access' table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the table design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big deal, there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would irk me more than this. BUT ... Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved into a waste of bits and bandwidth. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past >few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was >Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But >I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >isolated incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu May 27 19:05:38 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:05:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <220950-2200455280538379@christopherhawkins.com> Post it up again! It might get a new lease on life now that we don't have that Text field size flamewar to distract us anymore. ;) -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:05:32 -0400 >>Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually >learning things from that > >Nice to hear that. The answer is, I got very busy and no one else >seems to >want to contribute on the subject. ;-) > >JWColby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve >Conklin >(Developer at UltraDNT) >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:36 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly >lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 >or >maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. >Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went >through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to >Access' >table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the >table >design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big >deal, >there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would >irk >me more than this. > >BUT ... > >Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually >learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over >relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved >into a >waste of bits and bandwidth. > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running >the >first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by >someone >else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, >I >know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked >before, now you broke it'. > >Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an >hour >and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in >Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size >limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location >where >an accident >occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the >company running this thing refused to make the change in field size >(long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned >from >messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based >'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for >actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I >had to >make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the >temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, >and >longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and >then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the >delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour >and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have >taken just about as long for just that one). > >So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 >for >fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. > >However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of >pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought >the system from the original developer. The original developer >hired me >to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. >The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. >I >was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system >works, >but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws >in >the original system. Since they have paid for the completely >project, >he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' >work, >and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with >handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the >original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the >original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server >remotely. > >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something >close >to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H >Tapia >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > >DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: > >>There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! >> >>Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >>have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the >past >>few >months) >>by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >>However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 >was > >>Charlotte >had >>a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. >But >>I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >>isolated incident. >> >> >How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how >difficult was that? > >-- >-Francisco > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu May 27 19:05:15 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:05:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives Message-ID: <00a901c44447$74d13150$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 I wanna show the answer as 2 I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response It was something simple like clng(blah) many thanks in advance DD From CMackin at Quiznos.com Thu May 27 19:11:38 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:11:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412849@bross.quiznos.net> Abs() -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:05 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives Hello all I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 I wanna show the answer as 2 I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response It was something simple like clng(blah) many thanks in advance DD -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 27 19:52:25 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:52:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF73@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew...And that about sums it up Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know, just when you think you have the world figured out, JC and Drew agree about something, and Gustav tosses all internationalization issues out the window. Go figure. Welcome to AccessD: All Controversial Conversations Exceed Standard Size, DOH! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John and Drew A nice couple, you two. Now, who would have believed that? /gustav >>hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL > Thanks Drew, I needed that! > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Thu May 27 20:04:06 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:04:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives topositives Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191CBF@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Abs(x) > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:05 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert > negatives topositives > > > Hello all > > I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. > I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg > -1 + -1 = -2 I wanna show the answer as 2 > > I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find > the response It was something simple like clng(blah) > > many thanks in advance > > DD > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu May 27 20:41:36 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:41:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negativesto positives References: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412849@bross.quiznos.net> Message-ID: <010b01c44454$ea0cb720$48619a89@DDICK> Chris and Martin many thanks - that was it this list is awwweeesssome See ya D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mackin, Christopher" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negativesto positives > Abs() > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:05 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives > to positives > > > Hello all > > I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. > I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 > I wanna show the answer as 2 > > I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response > It was something simple like clng(blah) > > many thanks in advance > > DD > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjones at btl.net Thu May 27 21:48:35 2004 From: pjones at btl.net (Paul M. Jones) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:48:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives In-Reply-To: <00a901c44447$74d13150$48619a89@DDICK> References: <00a901c44447$74d13150$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040527204813.03202890@btlmail.btl.net> If I'm not mistaken the function is Abs() At 06:05 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote: >Hello all > >I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. >I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 >I wanna show the answer as 2 > >I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response >It was something simple like clng(blah) > >many thanks in advance > >DD > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 01:04:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:04:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> <40B63745.4020509@shaw.ca> <001901c4441c$4878b5e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40B6D65F.2060807@shaw.ca> What about putting a VB datagrid control on the form and dumping the recordset data into that.? Martin Reid wrote: >What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the server >in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to Page them >down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > >On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the user >chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of records >they get. > >Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to handle >the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but will give >ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the >wire. > >The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start the >process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records ordered by >"A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > >They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again ordered >by "B" and so on and so on. > >No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > > >So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First >Last but we would also have > >Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or 2000 >down would be ok. > >Any of this make sense?? > >OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it >>XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. >>There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I >>must be looking at something the wrong way. >> >>Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection >>Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >> >>Private Sub Command0_Click() >> cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ >> "Data Source=(local);" & _ >> "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ >> "User ID=sa;" & _ >> "Password=;" >> cnn.Open >> rst.Source = "Select * from authors" >> rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient >> rst.Open , cnn >> Set Me.Recordset = rst >>End Sub >> >> >>paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >> >> >> >>>Martin, >>>Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar >>> >>> >is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table >and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have >something like > > >>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And >>> >>> >tblTempCounterField<=100 > > >>>then change the query to >>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And >>> >>> >tblTempCounterField<=200 > > >>>etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. >>>Paul Hartland >>>PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it >>> >>> >for future reference. > > >>> >>> >>> >>>Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>>>From : "Martin Reid" >>>To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>Copy to : >>>Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>>I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. >>> >>>Martin >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >>>> >>>>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>>>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>>>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>>>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>>>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>>>' Move to the selected page number >>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>> >>>>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>http://www.asp101.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing >>>>in an array >>>>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for >>>>performance >>>> >>>> >>>>Sub AdoPaging() >>>>'stolen from >>>>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>>>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>>>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>>>Dim CONN_USER As String >>>>Dim CONN_PASS As String >>>> >>>>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>>>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ >>>>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" >>>> >>>>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>>>' Comment out to use Access >>>>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ >>>>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ >>>>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" >>>>'CONN_USER = "samples" >>>>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>>>' END USER CONSTANTS >>>> >>>>' Declare our vars >>>>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>>>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>>>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>>>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>>>passing them >>>>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>>>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>>>iPageSize records >>>>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>>>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>>>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >>>> >>>>' Get parameters >>>>' set number of records per page >>>> >>>>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >>>> >>>>' Set page to show or default to 1 >>>> >>>>iPageCurrent = 2 >>>> >>>> >>>>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>>>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>>>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. >>>>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. >>>>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >>>> >>>>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>>>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >>>> >>>>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. >>>>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >>>> >>>> >>>>Debug.Print strSQL >>>> >>>>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>>>' Create and open our connection >>>>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection >>>>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS >>>>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>>>' Create recordset and set the page size >>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>>>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>>> >>>>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>>>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>>>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize >>>> >>>>' Open RS >>>>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, >>>>adCmdText >>>> >>>>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>>>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>>> >>>>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>>>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>>>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount >>>>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >>>> >>>>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! >>>>If iPageCount = 0 Then >>>>Debug.Print "No records found!" >>>>Else >>>>' Move to the selected page >>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>> >>>>' Start output with a page x of n line >>>> >>>>' Show field names in the top row >>>>Dim strtitles As String >>>>strtitles = "" >>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " >>>>Next 'I >>>>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >>>> >>>>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record >>>>iRecordsShown = 0 >>>>Dim strFields As String >>>>strFields = "" >>>>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >>>> >>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>> >>>>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >>>> >>>>Next 'I >>>>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>>>'clear strfields shown >>>>strFields = "" >>>> >>>>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>>>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>>>' Can't forget to move to the next record! >>>>objPagingRS.MoveNext >>>>Loop >>>> >>>>' All done - close table >>>> >>>>End If >>>> >>>>' Close DB objects and free variables >>>>objPagingRS.Close >>>>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>>>objPagingConn.Close >>>>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >>>> >>>>End Sub >>>> >>>> >>>>Martin Reid wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>SQL >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at >>>>> >>>>> >the > > >>>>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then >>>>> >>>>> >move > > >>>>>freely between pages. >>>>> >>>>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. >>>>> >>>>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? >>>>> >>>>>MArtin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Marty Connelly >>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 28 04:11:13 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:11:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF75@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF75@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <888046149.20040528111113@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > Now Gustav, that is a VERY valid point. And one that is constantly glossed > over whenever we debate 'bad practice' issues. > Something is really only bad practice when done by someone that doesn't > realize what they are doing. Just like tossing matches into a bucket of > gasoline is bad practice, if the person is a fire marshal, and they are > doing it for a very specific reason, then it should be done. > Same with almost every other topic that has come up with 'bad practice' > implications. You are a good developer, so I honestly don't think I would > every have to worry about field size limits in a database built by you. > However, in the beginning of this thread, I was mentioning that a college > course was having their students set field size limits on all of their > fields. (10 characters for a first name, etc.) So my point was that the > 'established' education system out there is teaching bad habits (along with > spaces in the table names, etc). Ahh - I've forgot that for a moment. True, that's a bad habit. Now, does that make three of us? /gustav >> Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone >> set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not >> theory, how many actual times. > I don't recall ever to have had to adjust this limit. That's because > I'm so good to anticipate the client's need. >> In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous >> developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users >> were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had >> done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of >> those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db >> that couldn't store what they wanted. > Well, those previous developers were bad developers. >> Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had >> a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character >> field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and >> say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 >> characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what >> do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do >> you think those clients think of their original developers? > It all sums up, that to limit a text field length you must be a good > programmer; if you are not, just don't. (No reverse conclusions should > be made.) From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 07:35:33 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:35:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Message-ID: <000a01c444b0$4555a4b0$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to All! I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find mention of this limitation. I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects (FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. TIA, Dan Waters From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 28 07:54:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:54:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... Message-ID: I would welcome comments from others regarding my approach. Am I alone in my thinking? Should I be doing something different in my own development? Because it seems there is a fundamental difference in the way we each normalize data. I was always taught that a junction table (like tblPropertyPhotos) is the way to handle a potential many to many relationship. I don't see the table as being redundant at all. For instance the rare instance where a photograph taken from a street corner shows two adjacent properties, or the obvious instance of multiple photographs of a single property. So to address your current situation, what I was trying to explain was a structure like this: tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. And this: tblPhotos_1 tblAccomUnitPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblAccomUnits PhotoPath fkAccomUnitID___________pkAccomUnitID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Where tblPhotos and tblPhotos_1 are the same table holding paths to ALL of your photographs. The bonus feature of handling it like this is that it would allow you to add photographs of anything you would like to track in the future, such as: tblPhotos_2 tblRepairPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblRepairs PhotoPath fkRepairID______________pkRepairID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Or: tblPhotos_3 tblEmployeePhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblEmployees PhotoPath fkEmployeeID____________pkEmployeeID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. The upshot is that one particular PhotoID could be associated with a repair, a Property, an AccomUnit or anything else you care to add to your structure. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... On 27 May 2004 at 9:22, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > Andy's interpretation of my comments is correct. Here is an example: > > tblPhotos tblProperties > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID > PhotoPath pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. > PhotoComments etc. > This won't work - Properties->Photos and AccomUnits->Photos are both OneToMany > Or > > tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties > PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. etc. > PhotoComments etc. etc. > Since it's not ManyToMany. the tblPropertyPhotos is redundant, you could achieve exactly the same thing with a fkPropertyId in tblPhotos. Unfortunately, neither deal with the current situation, which is that some photos relate to tblProperties and some photos relate to tlbAccomUNits. I'm actually looking for pointer as to the best way to handle child records which are identical except that they have parents in different tables (in this case with a further parent/child relationship to consider) AccomUnits are Children of Properties. Photos can be either children of AccomUnits( therefore Grandchildren of Properties) or direct children of properties. (Sort of like a hillbilly family ) where you will have EITHER a direct link through FKProp or FPAccomUnit (but never both) and where tblAccomUnit also has a FKProperty. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 28 09:19:37 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:19:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 28 09:20:53 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:20:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5C@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> That will work. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks! Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with SQL. It think you are going to have to make a 'change' during import. From what you are describing, it sounds like the only indication of whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit is the order of the dates. I think you are getting a 'group by' deposit type, and sort by type, then date, you're just not getting the deposit type field. Just write an import routine, that reads the data in the same order it is dumped. Set a boolean flag, and a 'temp' date variable. set the date variable to the date you looked at previously, and before you import a record, determine if the date has 'rolled back'. If it has, then set your boolean variable. Use the boolean variable in the line where you record the value, and set it to 0-value if the boolean is set, else, set it to value. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 28 09:23:19 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:23:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5D@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> There is a line that says "withdrawals and debits" at the top of the first page of withdrawals. I'll take a look at the append template. Thanks. Jim -----Original Message----- From: James Barash [mailto:James at fcidms.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Jim: If you are using Monarch Pro to parse the bank statement, it may be possible to capture deposit or withdrawal as part of the data. Does the bank statement have the word "Deposit" somewhere before the deposit records and "Withdrawals" before the withdrawal records, or some other distictive text that separates the two? If so, you should be able to capture that and add it to each record. You can set up an Append Template to search for specific text and add that to all subsequent records. I've done that in the past with some fairly complicated mainframe reports that we needed to parse and with a little creative trial and error, you can often differentiate records that look identical as long as there is some header information somewhere in the report. A purely Access solution would be to open a recordset and walk through it one record at a time, convert fldDate to a real date and compare that to the fldDate of the previous record. When the new date is earlier than the previous date, you know that record, and all the the rest of the records, are withdrawals and you can update fldAmt to fldAmt * -1.0 . James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 28 10:23:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:23:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF91@main2.marlow.com> I would say so. Drew Ahh - I've forgot that for a moment. True, that's a bad habit. Now, does that make three of us? /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 10:25:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:25:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of records they get. Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the wire. The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again ordered by "B" and so on and so on. No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First Last but we would also have Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or 2000 down would be ok. Any of this make sense?? OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it > XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read > only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable > recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Private Sub Command0_Click() > cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ > "Data Source=(local);" & _ > "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ > "User ID=sa;" & _ > "Password=;" > cnn.Open > rst.Source = "Select * from authors" > rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient > rst.Open , cnn > Set Me.Recordset = rst > End Sub > > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > >Martin, > >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something > >similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 > > > >then change the query to > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > > > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul > >Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know > >how to do it for future reference. > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM > >>From : "Martin Reid" > >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Copy to : > >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in > >Access. > > > >Martin > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > >> > >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = > >>iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > >>' Move to the selected page number > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from > >> > >> > >http://www.asp101.com > > > > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including > >>placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as > >>to best method for performance > >> > >> > >>Sub AdoPaging() > >>'stolen from > >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > >>Dim CONN_STRING As String > >>Dim CONN_USER As String > >>Dim CONN_PASS As String > >> > >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & > >>"Password=" > >> > >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > >>' Comment out to use Access > >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & > >>"Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network > >>Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" > >>'CONN_PASS = "password" > >>' END USER CONSTANTS > >> > >>' Declare our vars > >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > >>passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > >>iPageSize records > >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > >> > >>' Get parameters > >>' set number of records per page > >> > >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > >> > >>' Set page to show or default to 1 > >> > >>iPageCurrent = 2 > >> > >> > >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something > >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What > >>you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT > >>* FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > >> > >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > >> > >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = > >>"SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > >> > >> > >>Debug.Print strSQL > >> > >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... > >>' Create and open our connection > >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open > >>CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > >>' Create recordset and set the page size > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > >> > >>' You can change other settings as with any RS > >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = > >>iPageSize > >> > >>' Open RS > >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, > >>adLockReadOnly, adCmdText > >> > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = > >>objPagingRS.PageCount > >> > >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) > >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If > >>iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > >> > >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are > >>returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" > >>Else > >>' Move to the selected page > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>' Start output with a page x of n line > >> > >>' Show field names in the top row > >>Dim strtitles As String > >>strtitles = "" > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > >> > >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown > >>= 0 Dim strFields As String > >>strFields = "" > >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > >> > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >> > >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > >> > >>Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > >>'clear strfields shown > >>strFields = "" > >> > >>' Increment the number of records we've shown > >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext > >>Loop > >> > >>' All done - close table > >> > >>End If > >> > >>' Close DB objects and free variables > >>objPagingRS.Close > >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing > >>objPagingConn.Close > >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >> > >>Martin Reid wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I > >>>want > >>> > >>> > >to > > > > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned > >>>from > >>> > >>> > >SQL > > > > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all > >>>at the > >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc > >>>then move > >>>freely between pages. > >>> > >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one > >>>time. > >>> > >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be > >>>available? > >>> > >>>MArtin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 28 10:35:48 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:35:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: Message-ID: <001b01c444c9$7368f4b0$9111758f@aine> Havnt got to that part yet (<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. > Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. > How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to > Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the > user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of > records they get. > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but > will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the > records down the wire. > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start > the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records > ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First > Last but we would also have > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or > 2000 down would be ok. > > Any of this make sense?? > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it > > > XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read > > only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable > > recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. > > > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > > > Private Sub Command0_Click() > > cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ > > "Data Source=(local);" & _ > > "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ > > "User ID=sa;" & _ > > "Password=;" > > cnn.Open > > rst.Source = "Select * from authors" > > rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient > > rst.Open , cnn > > Set Me.Recordset = rst > > End Sub > > > > > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > > > >Martin, > > >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something > > >similar > is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary > table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access > query have something like > > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And > tblTempCounterField<=100 > > > > > >then change the query to > > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And > tblTempCounterField<=200 > > > > > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul > > >Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know > > > >how to do it > for future reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM > > >>From : "Martin Reid" > > >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > >Copy to : > > >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in > > >Access. > > > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "MartyConnelly" > > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM > > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > >> > > >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > > >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = > > >>iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > >>' Move to the selected page number > > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > >> > > >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from > > >> > > >> > > >http://www.asp101.com > > > > > > > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including > > >>placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as > > >>to best method for performance > > >> > > >> > > >>Sub AdoPaging() > > >>'stolen from > > >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > > >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > > >>Dim CONN_STRING As String > > >>Dim CONN_USER As String > > >>Dim CONN_PASS As String > > >> > > >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > > >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > > >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & > > >>"Password=" > > >> > > >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > > >>' Comment out to use Access > > >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & > > >>"Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network > > >>Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" > > >>'CONN_PASS = "password" > > >>' END USER CONSTANTS > > >> > > >>' Declare our vars > > >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > > >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > > >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > > >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > > >>passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > > >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > > >>iPageSize records > > >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > > >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > > >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > >> > > >>' Get parameters > > >>' set number of records per page > > >> > > >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > >> > > >>' Set page to show or default to 1 > > >> > > >>iPageCurrent = 2 > > >> > > >> > > >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something > > >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > > >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What > > >>you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT > > > >>* FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > >> > > >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > > >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > >> > > >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = > > >>"SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > >> > > >> > > >>Debug.Print strSQL > > >> > > >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... > > >>' Create and open our connection > > >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open > > >>CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > > >>' Create recordset and set the page size > > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > >> > > >>' You can change other settings as with any RS > > >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = > > >>iPageSize > > >> > > >>' Open RS > > >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, > > >>adLockReadOnly, adCmdText > > >> > > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = > > >>objPagingRS.PageCount > > >> > > >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > > >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) > > >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If > > >>iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > >> > > >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are > > >>returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" > > >>Else > > >>' Move to the selected page > > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > >> > > >>' Start output with a page x of n line > > >> > > >>' Show field names in the top row > > >>Dim strtitles As String > > >>strtitles = "" > > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I > > >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > >> > > >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown > > >>= 0 Dim strFields As String > > >>strFields = "" > > >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > >> > > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > >> > > >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > >> > > >>Next 'I > > >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > > >>'clear strfields shown > > >>strFields = "" > > >> > > >>' Increment the number of records we've shown > > >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > > >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext > > >>Loop > > >> > > >>' All done - close table > > >> > > >>End If > > >> > > >>' Close DB objects and free variables > > >>objPagingRS.Close > > >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing > > >>objPagingConn.Close > > >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > >> > > >>End Sub > > >> > > >> > > >>Martin Reid wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I > > >>>want > > >>> > > >>> > > >to > > > > > > > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned > > >>>from > > >>> > > >>> > > >SQL > > > > > > > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all > > >>>at > the > > >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc > > >>>then > move > > >>>freely between pages. > > >>> > > >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one > > >>>time. > > >>> > > >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be > > >>>available? > > >>> > > >>>MArtin > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>-- > > >>Marty Connelly > > >>Victoria, B.C. > > >>Canada > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>AccessD mailing list > > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Fri May 28 10:36:29 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:36:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <020301c444c9$8b7e6c10$6601a8c0@rock> In my infallible opinion, you are quite right. :-) Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... I would welcome comments from others regarding my approach. Am I alone in my thinking? Should I be doing something different in my own development? Because it seems there is a fundamental difference in the way we each normalize data. I was always taught that a junction table (like tblPropertyPhotos) is the way to handle a potential many to many relationship. I don't see the table as being redundant at all. For instance the rare instance where a photograph taken from a street corner shows two adjacent properties, or the obvious instance of multiple photographs of a single property. So to address your current situation, what I was trying to explain was a structure like this: tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. And this: tblPhotos_1 tblAccomUnitPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblAccomUnits PhotoPath fkAccomUnitID___________pkAccomUnitID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Where tblPhotos and tblPhotos_1 are the same table holding paths to ALL of your photographs. The bonus feature of handling it like this is that it would allow you to add photographs of anything you would like to track in the future, such as: tblPhotos_2 tblRepairPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblRepairs PhotoPath fkRepairID______________pkRepairID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Or: tblPhotos_3 tblEmployeePhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblEmployees PhotoPath fkEmployeeID____________pkEmployeeID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. The upshot is that one particular PhotoID could be associated with a repair, a Property, an AccomUnit or anything else you care to add to your structure. Mark From artful at rogers.com Fri May 28 10:39:17 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, rather than debited? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 28 10:38:06 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:38:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3131259378.20040528173806@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > server in one hit. All of them. .. > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > wire. /gustav > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. > Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. > How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to > Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the > user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of > records they get. > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but > will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the > records down the wire. > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start > the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records > ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First > Last but we would also have > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or > 2000 down would be ok. > Any of this make sense?? > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > Martin From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 28 10:47:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:47:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF96@main2.marlow.com> Maybe it stands for 'drain', not debit. Like your terrorist comment. They really just need to have their accounts balanced, or closed permanently. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, rather than debited? Arthur From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 28 10:49:43 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:49:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <3131259378.20040528173806@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001701c444cb$64f5b290$9111758f@aine> Confusing me LOL We have a database with up to 100,000 records. the design calls for retrieval of all records at the moment. no filtering so we simply open a recordset and grap all the records. For 100,000 this is slow. I should have said provide access to all 100,000 without the use of filtering by the user. What I was wondering is could we do something like the web. Bring the data down in blocks of say 1000. User can then page through the blocks and move within a block of records. So we would have Page 1 of X Pages. User could then go to Page 2 or page 3 etc. It gets a little more sophisicated after this. Save us getting all the records at the start. Or any other way we could reduce the number of records without having to add a filter that the user has to enter or select? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Hi Charlotte > > I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? > Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. .. > > > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > > wire. > > /gustav > > > > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. > > Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. > > How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to > > Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the > > user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of > > records they get. > > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but > > will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the > > records down the wire. > > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start > > the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records > > ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First > > Last but we would also have > > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or > > 2000 down would be ok. > > > Any of this make sense?? > > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 10:53:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:53:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: But isn't the user selecting "pages"? How is that different from, say, selecting a tab or button for the letter "Q"? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Confusing me LOL We have a database with up to 100,000 records. the design calls for retrieval of all records at the moment. no filtering so we simply open a recordset and grap all the records. For 100,000 this is slow. I should have said provide access to all 100,000 without the use of filtering by the user. What I was wondering is could we do something like the web. Bring the data down in blocks of say 1000. User can then page through the blocks and move within a block of records. So we would have Page 1 of X Pages. User could then go to Page 2 or page 3 etc. It gets a little more sophisicated after this. Save us getting all the records at the start. Or any other way we could reduce the number of records without having to add a filter that the user has to enter or select? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Hi Charlotte > > I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? > Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. .. > > > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > > wire. > > /gustav > > > > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" > > camp. Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound > > continuous form. How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is > > to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page > > the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each > > batch of records they get. > > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO > > but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all > > the records down the wire. > > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we > > start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 > > records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 > > ordered by "A". > > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records > > available. > > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, > > First Last but we would also have > > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 > > or 2000 down would be ok. > > > Any of this make sense?? > > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 28 11:14:54 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:14:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD83A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Probably "Debit Record", but considering this thread is about a bank produced file which does not distinguish between debits and credits, but instead leaves it up the reader (human or machine) to figure it out, it's just as likely to mean "Dubious Report". Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- > an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > > I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or > cr. Jim Hale > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > > Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you > actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > > Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 > records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both > positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where > withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant > fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, > tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; > > fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are > listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with > 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal > records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit > item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria > (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of > deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not > khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA > > Jim Hale > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri May 28 11:19:37 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:19:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <01b201c444cf$9344dfa0$6401a8c0@default> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- > an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir meaning left and right, respectively. They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using the double-entry system. Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 28 11:33:50 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:33:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: Message-ID: <000f01c444d1$8fdbd920$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> well I am hoping that bring down blocks of records on demand means they dont have to sit and wait for 15 mins. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > But isn't the user selecting "pages"? How is that different from, say, > selecting a tab or button for the letter "Q"? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > Confusing me LOL > > We have a database with up to 100,000 records. the design calls for > retrieval of all records at the moment. no filtering so we simply open a > recordset and grap all the records. For 100,000 this is slow. I should > have said provide access to all 100,000 without the use of filtering by > the user. > > What I was wondering is could we do something like the web. Bring the > data down in blocks of say 1000. User can then page through the blocks > and move within a block of records. So we would have Page 1 of X Pages. > User could then go to Page 2 or page 3 etc. It gets a little more > sophisicated after this. > > Save us getting all the records at the start. > > Or any other way we could reduce the number of records without having to > add a filter that the user has to enter or select? > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > Hi Charlotte > > > > I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? > > Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > > server in one hit. All of them. .. > > > > > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > > > wire. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" > > > camp. Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound > > > continuous form. How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is > > > to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > > > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page > > > the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each > > > batch of records they get. > > > > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > > > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO > > > but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all > > > the records down the wire. > > > > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we > > > start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 > > > records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 > > > ordered by "A". > > > > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > > > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > > > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records > > > available. > > > > > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, > > > First Last but we would also have > > > > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 > > > or 2000 down would be ok. > > > > > Any of this make sense?? > > > > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 11:35:16 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:35:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: I know the hardest thing to explain to non-accountants is the simple rule that debits are on the left and credits are on the right! When I was a banker, it was even more confusing because to a bank, credits (loans) are assets and debits (deposits) are liabilities, just the opposite of to the customer. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael R Mattys [mailto:michael.mattys at adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Debits and Credits ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me > -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir meaning left and right, respectively. They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using the double-entry system. Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 28 11:51:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:51:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <000f01c444d1$8fdbd920$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <000f01c444d1$8fdbd920$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <3435660386.20040528185127@cactus.dk> Hi Martin But what kind of connection are you left with? On a normal LAN that would be 15 seconds max. ... for the index only, for sorting and "paging", only a few seconds. /gustav > well I am hoping that bring down blocks of records on demand means they dont > have to sit and wait for 15 mins. >> But isn't the user selecting "pages"? How is that different from, say, >> selecting a tab or button for the letter "Q"? From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 11:54:10 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:54:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40B76EB2.7070500@shaw.ca> Pacioli's treatise (The monk that started the whole mess) on accounting was written in Latin. So the abbreviations. cr credo, credere, credidi, creditus V trust, entrust; commit/consign; believe, trust in, rely on, confide; suppose; lend (money) to, make loans/give credit; believe/think/accept as true/be sure; dr debeo, debere, debui, debitus owe; be indebted/responsible for/obliged/bound/destined; ought, must, should Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. >>> >>> > >Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- >an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > >And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, >rather than debited? > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:20 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > >I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or >cr. Jim Hale >-----Original Message----- >From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > >Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you >actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > >Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 >records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both >positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where >withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant >fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, >tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; > >fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are >listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with >4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal >records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit >item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria >(or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of >deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not >khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA > >Jim Hale > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 11:44:53 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:44:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? References: <000a01c444b0$4555a4b0$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <40B76C85.4070303@shaw.ca> Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 11:47:37 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:47:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <001b01c444c9$7368f4b0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <40B76D29.6070807@shaw.ca> Why not consider the use of a VB DataGrid Control on the form Maybe a third party one. Martin Reid wrote: >Havnt got to that part yet (<: > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charlotte Foust" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:25 PM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. >>Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. >>How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] >>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >> >> >>What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the >>server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to >>Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. >> >>On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the >>user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of >>records they get. >> >>Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to >>handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but >>will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the >>records down the wire. >> >>The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start >>the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records >>ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". >> >>They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again >>ordered by "B" and so on and so on. >> >>No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. >> >> >>So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First >>Last but we would also have >> >>Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or >>2000 down would be ok. >> >>Any of this make sense?? >> >>OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: >> >>Martin >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "MartyConnelly" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >> >> >> >> >>>I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it >>> >>> >>>XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read >>>only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable >>>recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. >>> >>>Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection >>>Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >>> >>>Private Sub Command0_Click() >>> cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ >>> "Data Source=(local);" & _ >>> "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ >>> "User ID=sa;" & _ >>> "Password=;" >>> cnn.Open >>> rst.Source = "Select * from authors" >>> rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>> rst.Open , cnn >>> Set Me.Recordset = rst >>>End Sub >>> >>> >>>paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Martin, >>>>Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something >>>>similar >>>> >>>> >>is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary >>table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access >>query have something like >> >> >>>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And >>>> >>>> >>tblTempCounterField<=100 >> >> >>>>then change the query to >>>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And >>>> >>>> >>tblTempCounterField<=200 >> >> >>>>etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul >>>>Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know >>>> >>>> >>>>how to do it >>>> >>>> >>for future reference. >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>>>>From : "Martin Reid" >>>>To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>>Copy to : >>>>Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>>>I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in >>>>Access. >>>> >>>>Martin >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >>>>> >>>>>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>>>>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = >>>>>iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>>>>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>>>>' Move to the selected page number >>>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>>> >>>>>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>http://www.asp101.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including >>>>>placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as >>>>>to best method for performance >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sub AdoPaging() >>>>>'stolen from >>>>>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>>>>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>>>>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>>>>Dim CONN_USER As String >>>>>Dim CONN_PASS As String >>>>> >>>>>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>>>>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>>>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & >>>>>"Password=" >>>>> >>>>>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>>>>' Comment out to use Access >>>>>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & >>>>>"Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network >>>>>Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" >>>>>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>>>>' END USER CONSTANTS >>>>> >>>>>' Declare our vars >>>>>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>>>>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>>>>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>>>>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>>>>passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>>>>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>>>>iPageSize records >>>>>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>>>>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>>>>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >>>>> >>>>>' Get parameters >>>>>' set number of records per page >>>>> >>>>>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >>>>> >>>>>' Set page to show or default to 1 >>>>> >>>>>iPageCurrent = 2 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>>>>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>>>>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What >>>>>you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>* FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >>>>> >>>>>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>>>>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >>>>> >>>>>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = >>>>>"SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Debug.Print strSQL >>>>> >>>>>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>>>>' Create and open our connection >>>>>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open >>>>>CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>>>>' Create recordset and set the page size >>>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>>>>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>>>> >>>>>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>>>>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = >>>>>iPageSize >>>>> >>>>>' Open RS >>>>>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, >>>>>adLockReadOnly, adCmdText >>>>> >>>>>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = >>>>>objPagingRS.PageCount >>>>> >>>>>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>>>>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>>>>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If >>>>>iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >>>>> >>>>>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are >>>>>returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" >>>>>Else >>>>>' Move to the selected page >>>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>>> >>>>>' Start output with a page x of n line >>>>> >>>>>' Show field names in the top row >>>>>Dim strtitles As String >>>>>strtitles = "" >>>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>>>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I >>>>>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >>>>> >>>>>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown >>>>>= 0 Dim strFields As String >>>>>strFields = "" >>>>>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >>>>> >>>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>>> >>>>>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >>>>> >>>>>Next 'I >>>>>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>>>>'clear strfields shown >>>>>strFields = "" >>>>> >>>>>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>>>>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>>>>' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext >>>>>Loop >>>>> >>>>>' All done - close table >>>>> >>>>>End If >>>>> >>>>>' Close DB objects and free variables >>>>>objPagingRS.Close >>>>>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>>>>objPagingConn.Close >>>>>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >>>>> >>>>>End Sub >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Martin Reid wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I >>>>>>want >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned >>>>>>from >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>SQL >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all >>>>>>at >>>>>> >>>>>> >>the >> >> >>>>>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc >>>>>>then >>>>>> >>>>>> >>move >> >> >>>>>>freely between pages. >>>>>> >>>>>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one >>>>>>time. >>>>>> >>>>>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be >>>>>>available? >>>>>> >>>>>>MArtin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Marty Connelly >>>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>>Canada >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>Marty Connelly >>>Victoria, B.C. >>>Canada >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 12:00:47 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:00:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Training Tax Credit in US References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40B7703F.6080906@shaw.ca> Thought this might be of intrest to US developers Congress just passed a 50% tax rebate for up to $4,000 for technology training per year. This is Canadian News site so you will have to track down the details on TRAIN Act. http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=idgml-71c51d2d-8326-4ae3-b011-3e108ddd4558&Portal=E-Government -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Fri May 28 12:03:42 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:03:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08E2A93F@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> I knew I was in for a rough time when the person I had hired to keep the books at the company where I worked balked at my instruction to post a bank deposit as a debit to the cash account. "Deposits are ALWAYS credits!" was her response. I insisted, and eventually prevailed despite her resistance, but she didn't last long. I still chuckle to myself whenever I remember that scene! Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Debits and Credits I know the hardest thing to explain to non-accountants is the simple rule that debits are on the left and credits are on the right! When I was a banker, it was even more confusing because to a bank, credits (loans) are assets and debits (deposits) are liabilities, just the opposite of to the customer. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael R Mattys [mailto:michael.mattys at adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Debits and Credits ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me > -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir meaning left and right, respectively. They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using the double-entry system. Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 12:24:04 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:24:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? In-Reply-To: <6429804.1085763925781.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c444d8$9380c110$de1811d8@danwaters> Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 12:28:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:28:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Message-ID: Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the database. What is it you want to do? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >find mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 12:33:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:33:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> <01b201c444cf$9344dfa0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <40B777F7.1020102@shaw.ca> The Latin for right and left is dexter and sinster. Lots of old Roman marching songs start off "Sinster dexter, sinister dexter, sinister dexter...." ;) Michael R Mattys wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arthur Fuller" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM >Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > > > > >>>>There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. >>>> >>>> >>Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- >>an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. >> >>And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, >>rather than debited? >> >>Arthur >> >> > >Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir >meaning left and right, respectively. > >They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of >making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. >If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using >the double-entry system. > >Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity >dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr > >If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, >it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. > > >---- > >Michael R. Mattys >Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint >http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 12:59:08 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:59:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? References: <000001c444d8$9380c110$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <40B77DEC.2060305@shaw.ca> Nope you can call or bind most com objects. By either early binding by setting a reference and dimensioning and setting the object or by late binding using getobject createobject. The problem being the references may not be correct for another.machine using early binding but you can use intellisense to look up methods in design mode. However you can more easily trap for errors using late binding but slower intial execution. It is a swings and merrygoaround difference. Your choice. CodeDb Function Example, assume say you have an addin code library in an MDE file and call one of its functions. The CodeDB statement determines the name of the database mde or mbd file where the running code resides. If you don't do this it will assume that the table resides in the calling mdb. The following example uses the CodeDb function to return a Database object that refers to a library database. The library database contains both a table named Errors and the code that is currently running. After the CodeDb function determines this information, the GetErrorString function opens a table-type recordset based on the Errors table. It then extracts an error message from a field named ErrorData based on the Integer value passed to the function. Function GetErrorString(ByVal intError As Integer) As String Dim dbs As Database, rst As RecordSet ' Variable refers to database where code is running. Set dbs = CodeDb ' Create table-type Recordset object. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordSet("Errors", dbOpenTable) ' Set index to primary key (ErrorID field). rst.Index = "PrimaryKey" ' Find error number passed to GetErrorString function. rst.Seek "=", intError ' Return associated error message. GetErrorString = rst.Fields!ErrorData.Value rst.Close End Function Dan Waters wrote: >Marty, > >I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For >example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. > >It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). > >Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between >runtime Access and the full version? > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's > >Dan Waters wrote: > > > >>Hello to All! >> >> >> >>I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >>Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >>this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >>mention of this limitation. >> >> >> >>I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System >> >> >Objects > > >>(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. >> >> >> >>TIA, >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 13:14:07 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? In-Reply-To: <27483081.1085765592181.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c444df$915f8a90$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello Charlotte, I know the standard limitations of a runtime version - these are well described on the MSDN website. My applications handle these well. My goal is to offer the use of runtime versions to clients where they don't want to install full versions of Access. Apparently I read something wrong because when I tested using the /runtime switch, API's, FSO, and spellchecking all worked fine. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the database. What is it you want to do? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >find mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 13:20:33 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:20:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? In-Reply-To: <7107104.1085768026819.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000101c444e0$77cd68d0$de1811d8@danwaters> Thanks Marty! I'll save this one. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Nope you can call or bind most com objects. By either early binding by setting a reference and dimensioning and setting the object or by late binding using getobject createobject. The problem being the references may not be correct for another.machine using early binding but you can use intellisense to look up methods in design mode. However you can more easily trap for errors using late binding but slower intial execution. It is a swings and merrygoaround difference. Your choice. CodeDb Function Example, assume say you have an addin code library in an MDE file and call one of its functions. The CodeDB statement determines the name of the database mde or mbd file where the running code resides. If you don't do this it will assume that the table resides in the calling mdb. The following example uses the CodeDb function to return a Database object that refers to a library database. The library database contains both a table named Errors and the code that is currently running. After the CodeDb function determines this information, the GetErrorString function opens a table-type recordset based on the Errors table. It then extracts an error message from a field named ErrorData based on the Integer value passed to the function. Function GetErrorString(ByVal intError As Integer) As String Dim dbs As Database, rst As RecordSet ' Variable refers to database where code is running. Set dbs = CodeDb ' Create table-type Recordset object. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordSet("Errors", dbOpenTable) ' Set index to primary key (ErrorID field). rst.Index = "PrimaryKey" ' Find error number passed to GetErrorString function. rst.Seek "=", intError ' Return associated error message. GetErrorString = rst.Fields!ErrorData.Value rst.Close End Function Dan Waters wrote: >Marty, > >I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For >example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. > >It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). > >Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between >runtime Access and the full version? > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's > >Dan Waters wrote: > > > >>Hello to All! >> >> >> >>I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >>Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >>this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >>mention of this limitation. >> >> >> >>I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System >> >> >Objects > > >>(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. >> >> >> >>TIA, >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri May 28 13:23:09 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:23:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock><01b201c444cf$9344dfa0$6401a8c0@default> <40B777F7.1020102@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <020301c444e0$d4fc3cc0$6401a8c0@default> Hi Marty, Thank you. No wonder I was always getting whipped with the cat-o'-nine tails! I could never get that right ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > The Latin for right and left is dexter and sinster. > Lots of old Roman marching songs start off > "Sinster dexter, sinister dexter, sinister dexter...." ;) > > > Michael R Mattys wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Arthur Fuller" > >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM > >Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > > > > > > > > > >>>>There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > >>>> > >>>> > >>Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- > >>an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > >> > >>And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > >>rather than debited? > >> > >>Arthur > >> > >> > > > >Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir > >meaning left and right, respectively. > > > >They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of > >making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. > >If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using > >the double-entry system. > > > >Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity > >dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr > > > >If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, > >it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. > > > > > >---- > > > >Michael R. Mattys > >Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint > >http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 13:53:49 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:53:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? References: <000001c444df$915f8a90$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <40B78ABD.7050400@shaw.ca> Well with this situation I would be inclined to use late binding, you cannot reset missing or mangled references with an MDE. as you cannot recompile or change the source p-code cause it ain't there anymore. You are also going to have to handle missing objects as you will probably hit machines missing a Word install or a Net Admin that has turned off vb scripting or access to WSH for security reasons, so your FSO calls will fail. You might have to rewrite your FSO methods to use general API calls. Dan Waters wrote: >Hello Charlotte, > >I know the standard limitations of a runtime version - these are well >described on the MSDN website. My applications handle these well. > >My goal is to offer the use of runtime versions to clients where they don't >want to install full versions of Access. > >Apparently I read something wrong because when I tested using the /runtime >switch, API's, FSO, and spellchecking all worked fine. > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:29 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The >main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to >specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the >property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the >database. What is it you want to do? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > > >Marty, > >I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For >example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. > >It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). > >Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between >runtime Access and the full version? > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin >MDE's > >Dan Waters wrote: > > > >>Hello to All! >> >> >> >>I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >>Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >> >> > > > >>Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >>find mention of this limitation. >> >> >> >>I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System >> >> >Objects > > >>(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. >> >> >> >>TIA, >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 14:58:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:58:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Message-ID: The /runtime switch doesn't completely emulate the runtime environment. You need to start the app from a runtime installation in order to see the real behavior. I learned that lesson a long time ago. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Hello Charlotte, I know the standard limitations of a runtime version - these are well described on the MSDN website. My applications handle these well. My goal is to offer the use of runtime versions to clients where they don't want to install full versions of Access. Apparently I read something wrong because when I tested using the /runtime switch, API's, FSO, and spellchecking all worked fine. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the database. What is it you want to do? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >find mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 28 15:49:21 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:49:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: Hi Paul: To step through a group of records so many at a time try something like Public Function GetRecords(optional intCount as Integer = 0, _ optional lngPos as long = 0, _ optional intDirection as integer = 1) as ADOB.Recordset Static lngPosition as long Static intNumberofRecords as integer Dim strSQL as String 'You can also just close the caller recordset as the result is a clone and 'closing one closes the other. If Not GetRecords Is Nothing Then GetRecords.Close: Set GetRecords = Nothing if intCount <> 0 then intNumberofRecords = intCount if lngPos <> 0 then lngPosition = lngPos ' intDirection = 1 or intDirection -1 intDirection = intDirection Mod 2 if intDirection = 0 then intDirection = 1 lngPosition + (lngPosition * intDirection) if lngPosition < 0 then lngPostion = 1 strSQL = "SELECT top " & str(intNumberofRecords) & _ " * FROM MyTable where ID >= " & str(lngPosition) Set GetRecords = New ADODB.Recordset With GetRecords .ActiveConnection = MyActiveConnection .Source = strSQL .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open , , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With End Function Then to call the function like: intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve = 25 'Records for display lngWheretoStartIntheFile = 5000 'Start at this position intReadDirection = 1 'Forward 'To initialize set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords(intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve,_ lngWheretoStartIntheFile,_ intReadDirection).Clone 'To continue set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords().Clone ... With rsMyRecordset If .BOF = False Or .EOF = False Then .MoveLast:.MoveFirst End With ... My apologies but I just wrote this code from memory as there is limited error checking, testing functionality or typos, a complete set of defined variables. The concept is right but I could not find my original code...but it should be close. In the code it assumes your primary key is name 'ID'. It only brings back as many records as you request and starts at any position in the table(s) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Martin, Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 then change the query to SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > in an array > There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > passing them > Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > ' Create recordset and set the page size > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then > Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > iRecordsShown = 0 > Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! > objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 17:20:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:20:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Hi Paul: To step through a group of records so many at a time try something like Public Function GetRecords(optional intCount as Integer = 0, _ optional lngPos as long = 0, _ optional intDirection as integer = 1) as ADOB.Recordset Static lngPosition as long Static intNumberofRecords as integer Dim strSQL as String 'You can also just close the caller recordset as the result is a clone and 'closing one closes the other. If Not GetRecords Is Nothing Then GetRecords.Close: Set GetRecords = Nothing if intCount <> 0 then intNumberofRecords = intCount if lngPos <> 0 then lngPosition = lngPos ' intDirection = 1 or intDirection -1 intDirection = intDirection Mod 2 if intDirection = 0 then intDirection = 1 lngPosition + (lngPosition * intDirection) if lngPosition < 0 then lngPostion = 1 strSQL = "SELECT top " & str(intNumberofRecords) & _ " * FROM MyTable where ID >= " & str(lngPosition) Set GetRecords = New ADODB.Recordset With GetRecords .ActiveConnection = MyActiveConnection .Source = strSQL .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open , , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With End Function Then to call the function like: intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve = 25 'Records for display lngWheretoStartIntheFile = 5000 'Start at this position intReadDirection = 1 'Forward 'To initialize set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords(intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve,_ lngWheretoStartIntheFile,_ intReadDirection).Clone 'To continue set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords().Clone ... With rsMyRecordset If .BOF = False Or .EOF = False Then .MoveLast:.MoveFirst End With ... My apologies but I just wrote this code from memory as there is limited error checking, testing functionality or typos, a complete set of defined variables. The concept is right but I could not find my original code...but it should be close. In the code it assumes your primary key is name 'ID'. It only brings back as many records as you request and starts at any position in the table(s) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Martin, Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 then change the query to SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) Set > objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including > placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as to > best method for performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & > "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & > "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network > Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate passing > them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = > "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = > "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING ' Create recordset and set the page > size Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = > iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = > objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If > iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown = > 0 Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I > >want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned > >from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at > >the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc > >then move freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be > >available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 28 17:57:52 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:57:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. No I have not tested the previous piece of code but I have a number of similar pieces of code, in various programs out there. Below is an exact piece just cut and pasted in just for your edification: The Function: Public Function FillFileAgencyData(lngEmployeeNumber As Long) As ADODB.Recordset Dim objCmd As ADODB.Command On Error GoTo Err_FillFileAgencyData Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = gstrConnection .CommandText = "REFileAgency" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@EmployeeNumber", adInteger, adParamInput, , lngEmployeeNumber) End With Set FillFileAgencyData = New ADODB.Recordset With FillFileAgencyData .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open objCmd, , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With Exit_FillFileAgencyData: On Error Resume Next Set objCmd = Nothing Exit Function Err_FillFileAgencyData: ShowErrMsg "Module: DataConnection, Function: FillFileAgencyData" Resume Exit_FillFileAgencyData End Function The caller: ... Dim rsFileAgency As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsFileAgency = FillFileAgencyData(typFileAgency.EmployeeNumber).Clone ... ...and it works like a hot D... So even an old master like yourself can learn something. Jim From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 19:27:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:27:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: Well, I never have much occasion to use the Clone method, so what can you expect? I claim exemption from blushing, since you didn't show a declaration for the recordset object rsMyRecordset!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Hi Charlotte: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. No I have not tested the previous piece of code but I have a number of similar pieces of code, in various programs out there. Below is an exact piece just cut and pasted in just for your edification: The Function: Public Function FillFileAgencyData(lngEmployeeNumber As Long) As ADODB.Recordset Dim objCmd As ADODB.Command On Error GoTo Err_FillFileAgencyData Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = gstrConnection .CommandText = "REFileAgency" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@EmployeeNumber", adInteger, adParamInput, , lngEmployeeNumber) End With Set FillFileAgencyData = New ADODB.Recordset With FillFileAgencyData .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open objCmd, , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With Exit_FillFileAgencyData: On Error Resume Next Set objCmd = Nothing Exit Function Err_FillFileAgencyData: ShowErrMsg "Module: DataConnection, Function: FillFileAgencyData" Resume Exit_FillFileAgencyData End Function The caller: ... Dim rsFileAgency As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsFileAgency = FillFileAgencyData(typFileAgency.EmployeeNumber).Clone ... ...and it works like a hot D... So even an old master like yourself can learn something. Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 28 19:46:40 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:46:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte... I did after all state that it was not complete, just correct in concept... so there :-p :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Well, I never have much occasion to use the Clone method, so what can you expect? I claim exemption from blushing, since you didn't show a declaration for the recordset object rsMyRecordset!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Hi Charlotte: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. No I have not tested the previous piece of code but I have a number of similar pieces of code, in various programs out there. Below is an exact piece just cut and pasted in just for your edification: The Function: Public Function FillFileAgencyData(lngEmployeeNumber As Long) As ADODB.Recordset Dim objCmd As ADODB.Command On Error GoTo Err_FillFileAgencyData Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = gstrConnection .CommandText = "REFileAgency" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@EmployeeNumber", adInteger, adParamInput, , lngEmployeeNumber) End With Set FillFileAgencyData = New ADODB.Recordset With FillFileAgencyData .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open objCmd, , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With Exit_FillFileAgencyData: On Error Resume Next Set objCmd = Nothing Exit Function Err_FillFileAgencyData: ShowErrMsg "Module: DataConnection, Function: FillFileAgencyData" Resume Exit_FillFileAgencyData End Function The caller: ... Dim rsFileAgency As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsFileAgency = FillFileAgencyData(typFileAgency.EmployeeNumber).Clone ... ...and it works like a hot D... So even an old master like yourself can learn something. Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 29 06:39:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:39:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8211812555.20040529133953@cactus.dk> Hi Bob Here's another (old) note on Access/Jet history and background: http://www.avdf.com/nov96/acc_jet.html /gustav > There was an interesting article in this month's issue of Microsoft Insider > about the history of Access - personal accounts from the last ten years by > some of the most famous (infamous ? ) developers, including Ken Getz. > http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/10years/heroes.asp > Regards, > Bob Gajewski From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 29 07:59:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:59:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18716571989.20040529145912@cactus.dk> Hi Bob et all The link has changed to: http://www.microsoft.com/Office/previous/access/10years/heroes.asp /gustav > There was an interesting article in this month's issue of Microsoft Insider > about the history of Access - personal accounts from the last ten years by > some of the most famous (infamous ? ) developers, including Ken Getz. > http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/10years/heroes.asp > Regards, > Bob Gajewski From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 29 13:04:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 20:04:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <12911870959.20040517105424@cactus.dk> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk><00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <12911870959.20040517105424@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <5634860536.20040529200401@cactus.dk> Hi William Here's a tiny but extremely efficient tool for you: http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/regmon.shtml It'll show all or selected activity reading/writing the registry. Try loading, say, Word. At first the activity might elevate your paranoia to a new and dangerous level, but by watching the log - noticing the number of Succeeds - should bring you full relief. /gustav > Hi William > Hmmm, to me Access - no matter what version - certainly isn't that > flaky. > Remember, here we are changing a value only - not adding or deleting a > key. If the API call is send, Windows handles it; if it fails during a > crash, Windows does nothing. > /gustav >> ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will >> call the registry from if there is another way. >>> You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. >>> >>> The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it >>> every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well >>> documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame >>> your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>> > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing >>> > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to >>> > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so >>> > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an >>> > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( From glen_mcwilliams at msn.com Sun May 30 08:29:59 2004 From: glen_mcwilliams at msn.com (Glen McWilliams) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 06:29:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Count me in >From: "Joe Hecht" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 30 08:28:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:28:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files Message-ID: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Hi all Some strip zip files from e-mails to avoid vira and spyware, thus cab files can be a valid alternative for attaching compressed files. You can use a MS command line util for this (cabarc.exe or makecab.exe) or a freeware tool like CabPack 1.4, but did you know that Internet Explorer comes with a GUI wizard-type wrapper for CabArc called IExpress? Just type iexpress at the Run entry in the Start menu. When finished, it offers to save your settings as a "sed" file so you easily can repeat a packing session. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 30 08:55:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:55:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files In-Reply-To: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000001c4464d$c3d37da0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> That is amazing. Your reputation as a guru is validated one more time! JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files Hi all Some strip zip files from e-mails to avoid vira and spyware, thus cab files can be a valid alternative for attaching compressed files. You can use a MS command line util for this (cabarc.exe or makecab.exe) or a freeware tool like CabPack 1.4, but did you know that Internet Explorer comes with a GUI wizard-type wrapper for CabArc called IExpress? Just type iexpress at the Run entry in the Start menu. When finished, it offers to save your settings as a "sed" file so you easily can repeat a packing session. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 30 09:36:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:36:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files In-Reply-To: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: Where do you get this stuff :-) Incredible Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files Hi all Some strip zip files from e-mails to avoid vira and spyware, thus cab files can be a valid alternative for attaching compressed files. You can use a MS command line util for this (cabarc.exe or makecab.exe) or a freeware tool like CabPack 1.4, but did you know that Internet Explorer comes with a GUI wizard-type wrapper for CabArc called IExpress? Just type iexpress at the Run entry in the Start menu. When finished, it offers to save your settings as a "sed" file so you easily can repeat a packing session. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun May 30 11:53:16 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:53:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question Message-ID: <00e001c44666$9a8b3780$6601a8c0@rock> I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for simplicity let's deal with one only): Customers -- obvious CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer Classifications -- a list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from Classifications). Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the ClassificationID? TIA for opinions. Arthur From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun May 30 13:14:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:14:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <40BA2493.7050703@shaw.ca> While looking for something else came across these two methods for getting data from Quickbooks. One is an ODBC driver for QB reports and tables (careful they sell a read and and read write driver) ; other is ActiveX control that handles QBxml QODBC is a fully functional ODBC driver for reading and writing QuickBooks 2002, 2003 and 2004 accounting data files by using standard SQL queries. Handles reports and tables 30 day trial evaluation. 200 - 500 dollars pc and server. Can use from Excel or Access; from Flexquarters software http://qodbc.com/link2.mgi?source=google&search=api http://www.qodbc.com/qodbcfaq.htm AcctSync SDK ActiveX / VB Edition Version 2.0 Small, fast, easy-to-use, and fully self-contained ActiveX Controls built with ATL. No dependencies on any external libraries. Ideal for use with any COM container, from Visual Basic, to Internet Explorer, Office/VBA, etc. Uses QBxml. Can use from MS Office, Java Win CE, .Net and C++ @ $300 http://www.acctsync.com/acctsync/products/showprod.aspx?part=ACA2-A Might be usefuol with ActSync Messenger for 3d'party customer data connections through a website http://www.acctsync.com/acctsync/products/messenger/ Robert Gracie wrote: >Maryty, > Sounds Interesting, any examples? > > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:13 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only >works for Canadian and US versions >You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, >although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements >instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. >https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 > >Robert Gracie wrote: > > > >>Rocky, >> Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I >> >> >will > > >>end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! >> >>robert at servicexp.com >> >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >>Beach Access Software >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >>Robert: >> >>I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. >> >>I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >>that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. >> >>Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >>process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. >> >>There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >>code off line if you decide to do the two step. >> >>I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >>but they don't. >> >>Rocky Smolin >>Beach Access Software >>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert Gracie" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >>Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >>> >>> >>> >>> >>to >> >> >> >> >>>even get the .dll set up and registered... >>> >>>Any idea's or help would be great! >>> >>>Thanks!! >>>Robert Gracie >>>www.servicexp.com >>> >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 30 15:06:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:06:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files In-Reply-To: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> References: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <5047248419.20040530220650@cactus.dk> Hi Jim and John Thanks! I was browsing to locate some code to create a cab file - then I stumbled over IExpress - it must be one of those strange MS secrets. Nevertheless, I managed too to cook a function to create a cab file using COM and no shelling in Windows 2000+. This, too, is a well preserved secret ... you have to use a strange typelib package, catsrvut.dll, which contains seven typelibs from which one is capable of compressing files to a cab file. Who would have believed that? Basically, with this type library it's three lines of code - it couldn't be simpler! However, a bit more is needed for making it as robust as needed for real life. Below is the function for creating a cab file with a single file; I'll leave it as an exercise to expand it with an array or collection of files to be stuffed in the cabinet (hint: look up the links in the comments) as this can be solved in many ways and is highly dependant on what you wish to use the function for. It uses late binding which I think is fine as the library is loaded very fast and, to be honest, I couldn't find out how to create early binding for this strange typelib - I have the feeling that it may not even be possible and as late binding works fine, I left it. Also note the parenthesis around the file name variables; they are absolutely needed for some reason. Have fun! /gustav Public Function CreateCab1( _ ByVal strCabFileName As String, _ ByVal strFileNameToCab As String, _ ByVal strFileNameInCab As String) _ As Boolean ' Create Cab(inet) file containing one compressed file ' by using the typelib in catsrvut.dll. ' OS must be Windows 2000+. ' 2004-05-30. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. ' ' Based on code from Torgeir Bakken and Alex Angelopoulos: ' http://groups.google.com/groups?q=catsrvut.dll&start=10&hl=da&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=%23mxGK5hiCHA.1328%40tkmsftngp09&rnum=11 ' http://groups.google.com/groups?q=catsrvut.dll&hl=da&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=Oqs%24H3ioCHA.1636%40TK2MSFTNGP09&rnum=2 ' http://x220.win2ktest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3318 ' Settings for properties of created Cab file. Const cbooMakeSignable As Boolean = False Const cbooExtraSpace As Boolean = False Const cbooUse10Format As Boolean = False ' Error code for wrong number of arguments. Const clngErrArguments As Long = 450 Dim objCab As Object Dim booSuccess As Boolean On Error Resume Next If Len(strCabFileName) = 0 Or Len(strFileNameToCab) = 0 Then ' Nothing to do. Exit Function End If ' Create Cabinet object from COMEXPLib.ComExport typelib. Set objCab = CreateObject("MakeCab.MakeCab.1") If Err.Number = 0 Then ' Object could be created. If Len(strFileNameInCab) = 0 Then ' No specific name for the file in the cabinet has been given. ' Use the name of the source file. ' Note: Path will be preserved. strFileNameInCab = strFileNameToCab End If With objCab ' Parameters for method CreateCab. ' Except for the first, all parameters _must_ be of type Boolean. ' For Windows 2000: ' CreateCab ByVal CabFileName, ByVal MakeSignable, ByVal ExtraSpace ' For Windows XP/2003: ' CreateCab ByVal CabFileName, ByVal MakeSignable, ByVal ExtraSpace, ByVal Use10Format ' ' Try call for Windows 2000. .CreateCab (strCabFileName), cbooMakeSignable, cbooExtraSpace If Err.Number = clngErrArguments Then ' Call for Windows 2000 failed. ' Reset error and try call for Windows XP. Err.Clear .CreateCab (strCabFileName), cbooMakeSignable, cbooExtraSpace, cbooUse10Format End If If Err.Number = 0 Then ' Cab file has been initialized. ' Add the file to the cabinet and close. .AddFile (strFileNameToCab), (strFileNameInCab) .CloseCab If Err.Number = 0 Then ' The file was added successfully to the cabinet. booSuccess = True End If End If End With End If Set objCab = Nothing ' Return True if success. CreateCab1 = booSuccess End Function From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 30 15:22:21 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:22:21 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question In-Reply-To: <00e001c44666$9a8b3780$6601a8c0@rock> References: <00e001c44666$9a8b3780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <13648179618.20040530222221@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur It is not completely clear if you would like to store new classifications for the current customer only or for general use so they could be attached to other customers' CustomerDetails as well. Also: > When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are "drawing" items from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? /gustav > I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for > simplicity let's deal with one only): > Customers -- obvious > CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer > Classifications -- a list of generic classifications > CustomerClassifications -- a table containing only the Classifications > of interest to a given Customer > The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of > commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate > CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that allows > the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the > Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). > Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table > CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the > ClassificationID? > TIA for opinions. > Arthur From artful at rogers.com Sun May 30 17:28:32 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question In-Reply-To: <13648179618.20040530222221@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <013101c44695$70667210$6601a8c0@rock> Oops then I expressed it incorrectly. Each customer may design her own classifications -- the CustomerClassifications table. She has the opportunity to use existing classifications (thus the Classifications table). Any new CustomerClassification she adds is also added to the Classifications table (so some new user can take advantage of their existence. Assume the Classifications table contains rows "Admin", "Staff" and "Grunt". Our hypothetical user isn't satisfied with "Admin"; for various reasons she needs it to read "Administration", so she adds a new Classification (#123) and gets a new row in CustomerClassifications (with CustomerClassificationID 345). There. I think that's a better explanation. So the question is, should the CustomerDetails table contain column CustomerClassificationID or ClassificationID? Either way I get a unique reference. I'm just wondering which way is architecturally better. It may be worth pointing out that Customer 123's notion of Admin has nothing to do with Customer 345's notion of Admin; it's simply a device to let the data-entry people take advantage of existing Classifications. No report (that I can imagine) would ever require a list of all the Details of Classification "Admin". It's always Customer-relative -- except when we cruise Details by a column not mentioned so far -- and that has no influence on the question. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Database Design Question Hi Arthur It is not completely clear if you would like to store new classifications for the current customer only or for general use so they could be attached to other customers' CustomerDetails as well. Also: > When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are "drawing" items from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? /gustav > I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for > simplicity let's deal with one only): > Customers -- obvious > CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer Classifications -- a > list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table > containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer > The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of > commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate > CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that > allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the > Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). > Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table > CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the > ClassificationID? > TIA for opinions. > Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Sun May 30 19:08:51 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:08:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB1@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <002001c446a3$77870f10$e086b3d1@delllaptop> Roz, I am trying and have requested responses be moved. Can an admin redirect e mail from one list to another based on title? JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION TO DBA-CONF --if not to OT-- This thread is way off topic for accessd, and still running some hours after I asked you nicely to move over. C'mon folks it's not like you have nowhere to go. Roz -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: 27 May 2004 07:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Wear a battered fedora and use a 15' bullwhip to make your power points. Especially if doing computer archeology. Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: >Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals >that will argue every point I try and make". > >Just a suggestion >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The >presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... >Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... > >A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all >your articles, surely you could find a topic. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were >going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, >this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. > >You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your >conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. > >Susan H. > >Susan, I agree. > >Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large >audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two >sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could >present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small >topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 31 02:44:34 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:44:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question In-Reply-To: <013101c44695$70667210$6601a8c0@rock> References: <013101c44695$70667210$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <1571797935.20040531094434@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur > Each customer may design her own classifications -- the > CustomerClassifications table. > She has the opportunity to use existing classifications (thus the > Classifications table). > Any new CustomerClassification she adds is also added to the > Classifications table (so some new user can take advantage of their > existence. So you will be running a denormalized schema? Or did I miss something? > Assume the Classifications table contains rows "Admin", "Staff" and > "Grunt". Our hypothetical user isn't satisfied with "Admin"; for various > reasons she needs it to read "Administration", so she adds a new > Classification (#123) and gets a new row in CustomerClassifications > (with CustomerClassificationID 345). There. I think that's a better > explanation. So the question is, should the CustomerDetails table > contain column CustomerClassificationID or ClassificationID? Either way > I get a unique reference. I'm just wondering which way is > architecturally better. As you will copy any entry in CustomerClassifications to Classifications as well, I would refer solely to Classifications. To have mixed references (some to Classifications, some to CustomerClassifications) would not be an easy task if you (as I expect) will enforce referential integrity too. /gustav > It may be worth pointing out that Customer 123's notion of Admin has > nothing to do with Customer 345's notion of Admin; it's simply a device > to let the data-entry people take advantage of existing Classifications. > No report (that I can imagine) would ever require a list of all the > Details of Classification "Admin". It's always Customer-relative -- > except when we cruise Details by a column not mentioned so far -- and > that has no influence on the question. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Database Design Question > Hi Arthur > It is not completely clear if you would like to store new > classifications for the current customer only or for general use so they > could be attached to other customers' CustomerDetails as well. > Also: >> When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see >> only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them >> from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from >> Classifications). > How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are "drawing" items > from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? > /gustav >> I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for >> simplicity let's deal with one only): >> Customers -- obvious >> CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer Classifications -- a >> list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table >> containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer >> The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of >> commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate >> CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that >> allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the >> Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see >> only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them >> from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from >> Classifications). >> Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table >> CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the >> ClassificationID? >> TIA for opinions. >> Arthur From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Mon May 31 09:08:42 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:08:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191DDE@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> We have a database (canned) in use with 'seed' entries for lists and combo-boxes etc. Nearly all of them allow new entries from the user. The annoying part is that the 'seed' entries are fixed and are showing up in lists where we don't use them, i.e.. the fixed/original entries cannot be deleted. How many of these 'classifications' do you expect - if there are only a few as you've indicated then I would put them in the same collection with a gracious attitude of 'not material'. One of the most annoying things for reporting is when the database design exceeds functionality, and believe me, the aforementioned canned database is a case study in bad-design and relationships dependant on other relationships. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:29 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Database Design Question > > > Oops then I expressed it incorrectly. > > Each customer may design her own classifications -- the > CustomerClassifications table. She has the opportunity to use > existing classifications (thus the Classifications table). > Any new CustomerClassification she adds is also added to the > Classifications table (so some new user can take advantage of > their existence. > > Assume the Classifications table contains rows "Admin", > "Staff" and "Grunt". Our hypothetical user isn't satisfied > with "Admin"; for various reasons she needs it to read > "Administration", so she adds a new Classification (#123) and > gets a new row in CustomerClassifications (with > CustomerClassificationID 345). There. I think that's a better > explanation. So the question is, should the CustomerDetails > table contain column CustomerClassificationID or > ClassificationID? Either way I get a unique reference. I'm > just wondering which way is architecturally better. > > It may be worth pointing out that Customer 123's notion of > Admin has nothing to do with Customer 345's notion of Admin; > it's simply a device to let the data-entry people take > advantage of existing Classifications. No report (that I can > imagine) would ever require a list of all the Details of > Classification "Admin". It's always Customer-relative -- > except when we cruise Details by a column not mentioned so > far -- and that has no influence on the question. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Database Design Question > > > Hi Arthur > > It is not completely clear if you would like to store new > classifications for the current customer only or for general > use so they could be attached to other customers' > CustomerDetails as well. > > Also: > > > When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. > draw them > > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the > combo from > > > Classifications). > > How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are > "drawing" items from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? > > /gustav > > > > I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for > > simplicity let's deal with one only): > > > Customers -- obvious > > CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer > Classifications -- a > > > list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table > > containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer > > > The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of > > commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate > > CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that > > allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't > already in the > > Classifications table. When the user adds new > CustomerDetails, we see > > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. > draw them > > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the > combo from > > > Classifications). > > > Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table > > CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the > > ClassificationID? > > > TIA for opinions. > > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 31 11:18:53 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:18:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Is there an easier way? Message-ID: <000201c4472a$f77e61f0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> Folks, I am working on a system where I need to import (and update existing) name / address data from a bunch of files collected from the states. These files contain name / address / license information for individuals licensed to perform physical therapy etc. and come in all kinds of formats, with all kinds of field names, many of which we don't use, all of which which is making the problem tougher. In the end, for now, the files will be pre-processed (by hand in many cases) to get them into Excel files. The preprocessing will include putting the state abreviation into the first two characters of the file name and a "data type" code into the remaining characters. This still leaves the problem of different field names, i.e. one file may have "Last Name", the next "LastName", the next "Lname" etc. I have built a system that allows the user to select an Excel file using File Find dialog. The file is copied to an common location plus an archive location with a name that includes the date etc. The program strips the state code and looks it up in the state table, and strips the data type code and looks it up in the data type table. If all this "passes", then I lookup the file name in tblImportFile. If it does not exist I save the file name / path / stateid and datatype id in a new record. Most importantly, the file in the common location is dynamically linked to the FE to allow queries to be created. By that I mean that I reach into the table def and change the "database=" of the connect string to the name/path of the file being processed so that it points to the file just selected by the user. If this is a new file (first time processed), the user now "matches" field names using a pair of combos, one of which displays the field names in our table and the other displays the field names from the linked excel file. As long as the state does not change the field names, this process only occurs once per file. The results are stored in tblImportSpec. tblImportFile holds the file, path, state id and datatype id. tblImportSpec holds the ID from tblImportFile for the file being processed, then the matching field names from our table / their table. With me so far? I go through all this nonsense so that I can dynamically build a query that "aliases" their field name to our field name, plus grab the state ID and datatype ID (and import date) and build up a SQL statement that when executed results in their field names matching my field names, for whatever fields in their table match fields in our table. I then save this SQL string into the SQL property of an existing query def. Thus at any time you can open that query and look at the data in an excel spreadsheet, with the field names matching my field names, and a handful of Ids that match up to state Ids and data type ids etc. Once ALL of this is done, I filter out duplicates, allow the user to set up filters such as last name matches etc. then use the resulting data to build a temporary table of data. The whole point of this exercise is to get a table of data matching people in our database so that I can update their address information with the information that the state provides, and of course add new people not in our database. The major issues here - Various file formats Various fields, some of which are not needed Various field names for the fields that are needed The process needs to be done regularly (at least once per year, sometimes more often) so it needs to be possible for a user to do this. Is my solution harder than it needs to be? Has anyone handled a situation like this and if so, how do you deal with it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 31 12:13:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:13:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Is there an easier way? In-Reply-To: <000201c4472a$f77e61f0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> References: <000201c4472a$f77e61f0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> Message-ID: <14335931286.20040531191328@cactus.dk> Hi John > Is my solution harder than it needs to be? Has anyone handled a > situation like this and if so, how do you deal with it? Your approach sounds pretty much like I would handle this task ... You are, of course, looking for some shortcuts but I don't think there will be any given the "dynamic" nature of the data formats. /gustav From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon May 31 13:19:57 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:19:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? Message-ID: <157240-220045131181957850@christopherhawkins.com> I suppose the title says it all. ;) Given a text file with numerous (all different) tokens in it, how would I replace them? I mean, I know how to replace tokens in a string, but I've never had to use a text file for a string before. Should I stuff the entire text file into an array and wash it through my detokenizing code until no more tokens are found? Should I read the file line-by-line, replacing tokens as I go? I'm just not sure how to get started here. -Christopher- From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 31 13:53:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:53:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? In-Reply-To: <157240-220045131181957850@christopherhawkins.com> References: <157240-220045131181957850@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <3241912557.20040531205309@cactus.dk> Hi Christopher Yes, if the file is not very large (?), I would read the file line by line, replace tokens for each line and append the line to a new file. /gustav > Given a text file with numerous (all different) tokens in it, how > would I replace them? I mean, I know how to replace tokens in a > string, but I've never had to use a text file for a string before. > Should I stuff the entire text file into an array and wash it through > my detokenizing code until no more tokens are found? > Should I read the file line-by-line, replacing tokens as I go? From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 31 15:53:37 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:53:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? Message-ID: Line by line is ok if you're certain no tokens are split between lines. I once had to parse several hundred email log files from a news group to cull data for an access database. Each file was typically 300 to 800 K in size. I started by reading entire files into a string variable and then running the string manipulation code to parse but quickly determined that if I split the files into halves, each half took less than half the time to parse. I then split the file by halves, and halved the halves in a binary splitting procedure breaking on a space until the files were down to about 5 K. In that case, the time taken for splitting the string into quickly digested chunks was adding more time to the procedure than it saved. A bit of testing ultimately proved that a file size of around 7 to 8 K resulted in the best overall performance with the typical kind of data that needed to be processed. If I were to do it over again, I might be tempted to read in chunks at a time, finding the last delimiter and saving from there on in a temp variable to prepend to the next chunk to be read. I'm not certain that a line at a time will give the best performance but I do know from experience that excessively large strings take exponentially longer to process. The time for parsing a typical single file went from something like 5 to 10 minutes to under 30 seconds by splitting into smaller chunks before processing. Although VBA string variables can hold a a billion characters, that would probably take insanely long to process as a single string. If your text files are only a few hundred characters, I'd try timing the token operation on the full files. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Christopher Hawkins" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? >Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:19:57 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc11-f26.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.33]) by mc11-s5.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 31 May 2004 11:21:49 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc11-f26.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 31 May >2004 11:20:39 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i4VIJCQ01892;Mon, 31 May 2004 13:19:12 -0500 >Received: from mail-relay.gearhost.com (ns2.co.gearhost.net >[69.24.64.15])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i4VIIrQ01669for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:18:53 >-0500 >Received: from mail.gearhost.net ([69.24.64.25])by mail-relay.gearhost.com >(mail-relay.gearhost.com)(MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.0.R) with ESMTP id >md50000450849.msgfor ; Mon, 31 May 2004 >12:20:01 -0600 >Received: from christopherhawkins.com (unverified [127.0.0.1]) >bymail.gearhost.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id >for ; Mon, 31 >May 2004 12:19:57 -0600 >X-Message-Info: 1fLmhUU0vWFvdH+J6tlz6F85W0zaUsn6uS5jh9M9uj4= >Message-ID: <157240-220045131181957850 at christopherhawkins.com> >X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 0, 6 >X-EM-Registration: #00E0620610781F002A20 >X-Spam-Processed: mail-relay.gearhost.com, Mon, 31 May 2004 12:20:01 >-0600(not processed: spam filter disabled) >X-MDRemoteIP: 69.24.64.25 >X-Return-Path: clh at christopherhawkins.com >X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 May 2004 18:20:39.0809 (UTC) >FILETIME=[FA1D6710:01C4473B] > >I suppose the title says it all. ;) > >Given a text file with numerous (all different) tokens in it, how >would I replace them? I mean, I know how to replace tokens in a >string, but I've never had to use a text file for a string before. > >Should I stuff the entire text file into an array and wash it through >my detokenizing code until no more tokens are found? > >Should I read the file line-by-line, replacing tokens as I go? > >I'm just not sure how to get started here. > >-Christopher- > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 31 18:46:57 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:46:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms Message-ID: <004001c44769$8f93e8f0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I want to loop through the Forms collection and close any form/forms that is/are open. Any suggestions? Many thanks in advance Darren From glen_mcwilliams at msn.com Mon May 31 20:10:13 2004 From: glen_mcwilliams at msn.com (Glen McWilliams) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:10:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms Message-ID: Darren Here is a snippet from my shut-down module, which walks through the Forms collection closing any open form: '****Begin Code**** ' Close any open Forms. ' Loop through the Forms collection. For Each objTmp In dbsCurrent.Containers("Forms").Documents ' Assign the name propery value, for each Form, to the Name string variable. strName = objTmp.Name If gfnIsObjectOpenBln(acForm, _ strName) Then ' Use the Close method of the DoCmd object to close the specified object. DoCmd.Close acForm, strName End If ' Repeat the foregoing block of statements for the next element in the specified ' collection. Next objTmp '****End Code**** >From: "Darren DICK" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "AccessD List" >Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:46:57 +1000 > >Hello all > >I want to loop through the Forms collection and close any form/forms that >is/are open. > >Any suggestions? > >Many thanks in advance > >Darren > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 31 21:06:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:06:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms References: Message-ID: <004d01c4477c$fe162f00$48619a89@DDICK> Glen Many many thanks Just what I needed Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen McWilliams" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms > Darren > > Here is a snippet from my shut-down module, which walks through the Forms > collection closing any open form: > > '****Begin Code**** > ' Close any open Forms. > ' Loop through the Forms collection. > For Each objTmp In dbsCurrent.Containers("Forms").Documents > ' Assign the name propery value, for each Form, to the Name string > variable. > strName = objTmp.Name > If gfnIsObjectOpenBln(acForm, _ > strName) Then > ' Use the Close method of the DoCmd object to close the specified > object. > DoCmd.Close acForm, strName > End If > ' Repeat the foregoing block of statements for the next element in the > specified > ' collection. > Next objTmp > '****End Code**** > > > >From: "Darren DICK" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "AccessD List" > >Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:46:57 +1000 > > > >Hello all > > > >I want to loop through the Forms collection and close any form/forms that > >is/are open. > > > >Any suggestions? > > > >Many thanks in advance > > > >Darren > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kost36 at otenet.gr Sat May 1 01:40:44 2004 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:40:44 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <1861111.1082475577664.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> <1932337508.20040420175347@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004201c42f47$3c110b70$0100a8c0@kost36> Hi group, I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by leter into a combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. Thank's Kostas Konstantinidis From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:13:11 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:13:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <768136239.20040501121311@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > Congratulations to our new elected board members. Elections were concluded > Wednesday, 28 of April 2004. We have a new President, Vice-president and > Secretary. Other board members remained in their current positions. > A heart felt thanks to our retiring board members. Their contribution and > hard work was very much appreciated. Thank you all. What happened? In March Rocky reported these nice people to be at the board for a year? Not that the new members aren't nice - just wondering ... /gustav > The results have been posted at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/ From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:20:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:20:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08550294.20040501122005@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Or you may need to do a requery, though you'll have to use bookmarks to restore the currently selected records ... /gustav > Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just before > you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's background > tasks before continuing with code execution. > Jim > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent > Hi all > Using AXP in WinXP > I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs > calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. > Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no > field being set to yes. > On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the > subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent > straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. > If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything is > fine. > I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh > button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay > resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried > requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the > refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:28:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:28:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1949057493.20040501122832@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Another approach: If your app allows (does not write to or modify itself), split it in a frontend and backend and write-protect the frontend file (mark it as read only). This will cause zero change at the users' machines. /gustav > I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our > department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. > There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout > the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to > split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, > it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a > glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check > revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to > placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. > What do you think? From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 05:47:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:47:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo In-Reply-To: <004201c42f47$3c110b70$0100a8c0@kost36> References: <1861111.1082475577664.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> <1932337508.20040420175347@cactus.dk> <004201c42f47$3c110b70$0100a8c0@kost36> Message-ID: <15010224191.20040501124759@cactus.dk> Hi Kostas > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > leter into a combo box to appear the respectively records into a > releated list box. I guess so. Use something like this to filter the recordsource of the listbox: ".. LIKE '" & cboYourCombobox.Text & "*'" Then requery the listbox at the KeyPress and AfterUpdate or Change event. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 1 07:42:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:42:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Using the shell() function In-Reply-To: <20040429121707.1417978362.serbach@new.rr.com> References: <20040429121707.1417978362.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <12717091506.20040501144226@cactus.dk> Hi Steven I've sent the sample to you (and a few others) off-line. /gustav >> If you like, you can get my module which, of course, is heavily >> customized but I'm convinced you can easily extract what you need and >> modify it. << > Of course I would like that. What do I need to do? From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat May 1 08:25:45 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 06:25:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA References: <768136239.20040501121311@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <005f01c42f7f$cf82e2b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I took that long to get the official meeting together to announce the official results. Just formalities. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:13 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA > Hi Jim > > > Congratulations to our new elected board members. Elections were concluded > > Wednesday, 28 of April 2004. We have a new President, Vice-president and > > Secretary. Other board members remained in their current positions. > > > A heart felt thanks to our retiring board members. Their contribution and > > hard work was very much appreciated. Thank you all. > > What happened? > In March Rocky reported these nice people to be at the board for a > year? Not that the new members aren't nice - just wondering ... > > /gustav > > > > The results have been posted at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From serbach at new.rr.com Sat May 1 08:26:24 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:26:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Using the shell() function Message-ID: <20040501082624.1913387082.serbach@new.rr.com> Gustav, Thank you for your help and forebearance. I resolve to pay more attention in future having learned that my comments have consequences! Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat May 1 09:21:25 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:21:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE579@TAPPEEXCH01> Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the Change event: Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM Customers " & _ "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Hi group, I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by leter into a combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. Thank's Kostas Konstantinidis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat May 1 09:30:05 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 07:30:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE579@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <00c901c42f88$cbecad80$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Do you need a Me!lstMyListBox.Requery after the change of row source? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? > In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the Change > event: > > Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () > > Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > Customers " & _ > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > > End Sub > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > Hi group, > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > leter into a > combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. > > Thank's > Kostas Konstantinidis > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 1 09:11:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 07:11:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA In-Reply-To: <768136239.20040501121311@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Lembit: Of course we are nice...but I just can not be too immodest. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Officers for the DBA Hi Jim > Congratulations to our new elected board members. Elections were concluded > Wednesday, 28 of April 2004. We have a new President, Vice-president and > Secretary. Other board members remained in their current positions. > A heart felt thanks to our retiring board members. Their contribution and > hard work was very much appreciated. Thank you all. What happened? In March Rocky reported these nice people to be at the board for a year? Not that the new members aren't nice - just wondering ... /gustav > The results have been posted at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat May 1 09:48:01 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:48:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> I don't think so. When you change the rowsource, it should implicitly requery itself since it reruns the query. OOPS! Just realized that I was using the wrong property. It should be RowSource, not RecordSource: ---------- Me!lstMyListBox.RowSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM Customers " & _ "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Do you need a Me!lstMyListBox.Requery after the change of row source? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? > In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the Change > event: > > Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () > > Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > Customers " & _ > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > > End Sub > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > Hi group, > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > leter into a > combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. > > Thank's > Kostas Konstantinidis > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From kost36 at otenet.gr Sat May 1 12:33:10 2004 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 20:33:10 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> Hi Brett, may be I didn't manage to explain what I exactly want to do. Well, Into a form there are: a text box (txt_names) and a list box (list_names) The main table MT_basic_char in which there is the Last_name (about 3 thousand names) is the source of the asking data When I put the event Private Sub txt_names_Change() Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "'" End Sub and begin to write with e.g. the letters kos it should answer with all the records beginning with "kos" etc etc Instead of that in the list I see only ==> SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like 'kos' Am I doing something wrong? Thank's all Kostas Konstantinidis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > I don't think so. When you change the rowsource, it should implicitly > requery itself since it reruns the query. > > OOPS! Just realized that I was using the wrong property. It should be > RowSource, not RecordSource: > ---------- > Me!lstMyListBox.RowSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > Customers " & _ > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > ---------- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:30 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > Do you need a Me!lstMyListBox.Requery after the change of row source? > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > > Are you talking about functionality similar to Windows help? > > In which case, I would use a text box and perform my filtering in the > Change > > event: > > > > Private Sub txtMyTextbox_Change () > > > > Me!lstMyListBox.RecordSource = "SELECT CustomerID, CustomerName FROM > > Customers " & _ > > "WHERE CustomerName Like '" & Me!txtMyTextbox.Text & "'" > > > > End Sub > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kostas Konstantinidis [mailto:kost36 at otenet.gr] > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:41 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo > > > > > > Hi group, > > I was wondering if it could be possible to filter while writing leter by > > leter into a > > combo box to appear the respectively records into a releated list box. > > > > Thank's > > Kostas Konstantinidis > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 1 15:39:21 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:39:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> Message-ID: <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. Best Wishes Martin From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat May 1 15:58:31 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 16:58:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <4093D737.28444.2016FD2@localhost> On 1 May 2004 at 21:39, Martin Reid wrote: > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. > Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih > would improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the > parameters which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. I don't know what the parameter is Martin, Gustav will probably have it :), but I just had a similar problem receently. My problem was that I had an A2K FE and an A97 BE. Form load time went from 20-25 seconds to less than 1/2 second after I converted the BE to A2K. Might be something to look at too. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 1 18:50:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:50:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo In-Reply-To: <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> Message-ID: <4094C47C.6469.99510@localhost> On 1 May 2004 at 20:33, Kostas Konstantinidis wrote: > Hi Brett, > may be I didn't manage to explain what I exactly want to do. > Well, Into a form there are: a text box (txt_names) and a list box > (list_names) > The main table MT_basic_char in which there is the Last_name (about 3 > thousand names) is the source of the asking data > > When I put the event > Private Sub txt_names_Change() > Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE > [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "'" > End Sub > > and begin to write with e.g. the letters kos it should answer with all the > records beginning with "kos" etc etc > > Instead of that in the list I see only ==> SELECT [Last_Name] FROM > [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like 'kos' > > Am I doing something wrong? > Set the RowSourceType of list_names to "Table/Query". It must be currently set to "Value List". -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lytlenj at yahoo.com Sat May 1 19:52:58 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <20040502005258.76275.qmail@web60804.mail.yahoo.com> I think you need to add some kind of wild card to your statement so that it is looking for kos* not just kos. Private Sub txt_names_Change() Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "*'" End Sub Nancy From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat May 1 21:50:17 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:50:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57B@TAPPEEXCH01> Oops (again). That's exactly the ticket! -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lytle [mailto:lytlenj at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo I think you need to add some kind of wild card to your statement so that it is looking for kos* not just kos. Private Sub txt_names_Change() Me![list_names].RowSource = "SELECT [Last_Name] FROM [MT_basic_char] WHERE [Last_Name] like '" & Me![txt_names].Text & "*'" End Sub Nancy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun May 2 02:29:38 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 00:29:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <4094A362.5080105@shaw.ca> For a different file based database running on Novell with windows clients http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_net_fact_sheet.htm There is also a record lock parameter that is set too low by default on Novell It is listed in Novell KB Martin Reid wrote: >I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. >Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would >improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters >which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. > > >Best Wishes >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 2 02:53:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:53:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <352257325.20040502095312@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. > Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would > improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters > which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. Sadly, I don't think we ever heard from Seth what he came up with ... So, first, ask your NetWare admin to check these settings: SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS = 200000 SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS PER CONNECTION = 100000 For newer NetWare version (>=5?) they should be default. If not, they can simply be typed in (as shown) at the console as they are dynamic. If it works they should be inserted in the autoexec.ncf file. Second, check that your Novell clients are up to date. Also, look up the thread Excel 2000 to Access 2000 link slow on Novell network from July 2002. It may not represent your situation but has some hints. If you are running Access 97 data (Jet 3.5) on Access 2000 that may be an issue of its own. /gustav From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sun May 2 03:17:45 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:17:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01><008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36><000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <352257325.20040502095312@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c4301d$f4004620$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Gustav Main database is Access 2000. On start up it links into multiple Access 97 databases!. WIll try that out and see how it goes. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access > Hi Martin > > > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very slow. > > Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in Novell whcih would > > improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters > > which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. > > Sadly, I don't think we ever heard from Seth what he came up with ... > > So, first, ask your NetWare admin to check these settings: > > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS = 200000 > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS PER CONNECTION = 100000 > > For newer NetWare version (>=5?) they should be default. > If not, they can simply be typed in (as shown) at the console as they > are dynamic. If it works they should be inserted in the autoexec.ncf > file. > > Second, check that your Novell clients are up to date. > > Also, look up the thread > > Excel 2000 to Access 2000 link slow on Novell network > > from July 2002. It may not represent your situation but has some > hints. > > If you are running Access 97 data (Jet 3.5) on Access 2000 that may be > an issue of its own. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kost36 at otenet.gr Sun May 2 03:59:04 2004 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:59:04 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Filter records in a list via a combo References: <4094C47C.6469.99510@localhost> Message-ID: <002001c43023$bb578440$0100a8c0@kost36> Gustav, Brett, Rocky, Stuart and Nancy Fixed Thank's a lot for you help Kostas Konstantinidis From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 2 10:41:06 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:41:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese Message-ID: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 2 11:23:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:23:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design view. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 2 13:38:46 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:38:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <00c301c43074$b41fa990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear list: Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 2 16:23:35 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 07:23:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c301c43074$b41fa990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <4095F377.17925.116FCE@localhost> On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Dear list: > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks you can use. One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 04:03:55 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:03:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: <08550294.20040501122005@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000201c430ed$a393a080$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Thanks... That's how I've been doing it :O( In the main form I am using my own version of dSum etc. and it still returns the old value, even after the requery... Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 01 May 2004 11:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi Mark Or you may need to do a requery, though you'll have to use bookmarks to restore the currently selected records ... /gustav > Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just > before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's > background tasks before continuing with code execution. > Jim > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent > Hi all > Using AXP in WinXP > I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs > calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. > Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no > field being set to yes. > On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the > subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent > straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. > If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything > is fine. > I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh > button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay > resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried > requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the > refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 04:17:16 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c430ef$7f4e4750$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Thanks Jim... That may well be what I'm looking for. Will try it out later Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 30 April 2004 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Mark, Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's background tasks before continuing with code execution. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi all Using AXP in WinXP I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no field being set to yes. On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything is fine. I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. Any one got any pointers, I'd be real greatful. Thanks and have a good weekend (I'm off at last) Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 04:17:16 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: <08550294.20040501122005@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000401c430ef$82447ce0$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Thanks... That's how I've been doing it :O( In the main form I am using my own version of dSum etc. and it still returns the old value, even after the requery... Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 01 May 2004 11:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi Mark Or you may need to do a requery, though you'll have to use bookmarks to restore the currently selected records ... /gustav > Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just > before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's > background tasks before continuing with code execution. > Jim > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent > Hi all > Using AXP in WinXP > I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs > calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. > Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no > field being set to yes. > On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the > subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent > straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. > If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything > is fine. > I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh > button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay > resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried > requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the > refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon May 3 04:25:10 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 02:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating from A2K to A2002 Message-ID: <20040503092510.57151.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need to migrate an Access 2000 database using Ado, dao, saved queries, classes, api calls,etc to Access 2002. can anybody ginve me some URL's/tips on where to look for changed stuff, pittfalls, etc. tia Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 3 05:18:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:18:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer References: <20040503092510.57151.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c430f8$0dde9490$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I want to test the time taken to Open a form - get the load time Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that is covered. Would anyone have a function that measures such things? Martin From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 05:57:29 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 06:57:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer References: <20040503092510.57151.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> <000701c430f8$0dde9490$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000601c430fd$6d93abf0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...take a look at http://www.CleanDataSystems.com William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:18 AM Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer > I want to test the time taken to > > Open a form - get the load time > > Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a > file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that > is covered. > > > Would anyone have a function that measures such things? > > Martin > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 3 06:43:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 07:43:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer In-Reply-To: <000701c430f8$0dde9490$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Martin, I have a timer class with a test db to demonstrate it. The only way to time the opening of the form is to place the timer init in the button click that opens the form since the load happens BEFORE the code in the form is loaded. Go to my site, click Misc Demos, then click C2DbTimerClass. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer I want to test the time taken to Open a form - get the load time Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that is covered. Would anyone have a function that measures such things? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 07:44:53 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:44:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: This would be ideal, however the primary reason I need to split the database is precisely because the app modifies itself. The database contains a dynamic report in which the properties are set during run-time in design mode. This causes problems when two or more people are in the database. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 6:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Hi Mark Another approach: If your app allows (does not write to or modify itself), split it in a frontend and backend and write-protect the frontend file (mark it as read only). This will cause zero change at the users' machines. /gustav > I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our > department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. > There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout > the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to > split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, > it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a > glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check > revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to > placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. > What do you think? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 3 08:11:36 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:11:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1924415838.20040503151136@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > This would be ideal, however the primary reason I need to split the database > is precisely because the app modifies itself. The database contains a > dynamic report in which the properties are set during run-time in design > mode. This causes problems when two or more people are in the database. Oh, indeed! /gustav > Another approach: > If your app allows (does not write to or modify itself), split it in a > frontend and backend and write-protect the frontend file (mark it as > read only). This will cause zero change at the users' machines. > /gustav >> I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >> department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >> There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >> the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >> split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >> it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >> glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >> revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >> placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. >> What do you think? From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 09:36:57 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:36:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <000001c4311c$16ca0480$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon May 3 09:50:59 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:50:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412740@bross.quiznos.net> RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Mon May 3 09:50:30 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:50:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 10:02:21 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:02:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 10:15:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:15:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: If possible, now would be the best time to comment...I'm starting as we "speak". Thanks for your help. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 10:17:28 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:17:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57E@TAPPEEXCH01> Well, I was thinking more like: 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: 3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version 4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. 5. Launch the new FE. Why are you following such a complicated plan? Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just logged on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it doesn't exist on their C: drive? I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 3 10:25:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:25:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B5A@main2.marlow.com> VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' limitation? I've never heard of that one! Several issues with the writer's understanding of what they are talking about. 'One big drawback in Access is that exporting data from forms and reports does not work very well. Only exports from Tables and Queries work all the time'. LOL If you want a report or form formatted the same way, then yes, it can get goofy. But the data is all there. I think MS would have a LOT of people yelling at them if you couldn't export data from a report! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Mon May 3 10:33:22 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:33:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c43123$f7b272a0$bf8e6351@netboxxp> Perfect, thanks :@) Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 30 April 2004 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Mark, Add a dbEngine.Idle after refreshing the subform records and just before you do the calculations. This will force JET to finish up it's background tasks before continuing with code execution. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Sub form updates not immediately visible to parent Hi all Using AXP in WinXP I have a very complex form and subform where the parent performs calculations based, partly on, records accessed through the subform. Inclusion of the subform records in the calcs is dependant on a yes/no field being set to yes. On the parent is a button which refreshes the calcs. If I change the subforms yes/no value and then click the refresh button on the parent straight away, the change is not always reflected in the calculations. If I wait 5 or 6 seconds (working on a local backend) then everything is fine. I have spent a lot of time trying to simplify the code (the refresh button being a result) but no matter what there is still a delay resulting in the calcs not always being refreshed properly. I tried requerying and saving in the subform both after the edit and when the refresh button is clicked but I still get the same problem. Any one got any pointers, I'd be real greatful. Thanks and have a good weekend (I'm off at last) Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 10:32:38 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:32:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: Like I said I'm open for suggestions...the complicated plan was conceived in order to accommodate ~100 users that have been using their existing desktop shortcut for a long, long, time. I was thinking that this approach, although initially a little cumbersome, is still relatively transparent to the user...in that they still get to click the shortcut to which they are accustomed. As for checking the version of a non-existing database? It seems one approach would be to test for FE existence and proceed, and trap for the error if it does not exist and begin FE update. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Well, I was thinking more like: 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: 3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version 4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. 5. Launch the new FE. Why are you following such a complicated plan? Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just logged on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it doesn't exist on their C: drive? I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 10:59:48 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:59:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? In-Reply-To: <7020809.1083596107715.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c43127$a9c23860$de1811d8@danwaters> Come on Chris - Let's hear the original version! ;-) I looked through the comparison, and they said that FM had something called a Creation Option that was their equivalent to an AutoNumber. It also seemed like to have additional tables you needed to create a separate file for each additional table. It sounds like you're saying that Access can't read data from FM. It that correct? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mackin, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 10:59:48 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:59:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? In-Reply-To: <16621332.1083598389798.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000101c43127$aa0e83a0$de1811d8@danwaters> Yup - Biased. I caught the 'Can't export from forms and reports' too. They did have several things wrong and should have done some fact checking with an experience Access developer. And they made things sound worse than they are. For example: A 2K or XP db can auto-compact when a user closes, but the auto-compact only happens to the last user! They did acknowledge that FM does not have the equivalent of a run-time version. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' limitation? I've never heard of that one! Several issues with the writer's understanding of what they are talking about. 'One big drawback in Access is that exporting data from forms and reports does not work very well. Only exports from Tables and Queries work all the time'. LOL If you want a report or form formatted the same way, then yes, it can get goofy. But the data is all there. I think MS would have a LOT of people yelling at them if you couldn't export data from a report! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 11:05:27 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:05:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: <15378224.1083597608385.JavaMail.root@sniper3.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000201c43128$73c66050$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, Take a look at Auto FE Updater on this web page. I've used this at two sites and it works very nicely. http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/downloadsindex.htm Dan Waters ProMation Systems -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes If possible, now would be the best time to comment...I'm starting as we "speak". Thanks for your help. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 3 11:13:19 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:13:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4935318945.20040503181319@cactus.dk> Hi Mark I can't see how to circumvent creating a new shortcut which will (run a new batch file which will) launch a local copy of the FE. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet to obtain a reliable setup and - as you don't need to install Access - you can use a free installer like Inno Setup to achieve this: http://www.jrsoftware.org/ It may take a little extra effort, but you won't regret this. /gustav > Brett, Jim, Gustav, > This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be > "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more > office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency > issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons > as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best > practices. > So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > 1. Split the db. > 2. Move FE material to new FE db. > 3. Create a version table in new FE db. > 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: > 5. Logs in user. > 6. Verifies current version. > 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: > 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. > 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. > 10. Launches the new FE. > Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 11:20:21 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:20:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57F@TAPPEEXCH01> Mark, My batch file shortcuts look identical to any other app shortcut, so I can't see how it would be perceived as anything different to the end user. However, if you are unable/unwilling to replace the desktop shortcuts on the 100 machines remotely (login script, network desktop profile, admin c$ access...), then I can see how it would be advantageous to use the current app's server file as the initial launcher. At first, I didn't realize that you were planning on using the server db as the updater/launcher. In this case, my question about checking for a non-existing database doesn't apply. So, back to your solution. Following your requirements, here's what I would do: - Replace your network db with a simple launcher mdb. This mdb would contain a single table containing: - The workstation name (easily extracted using the GetComputerName API call) - The current version number for that workstation. - Include a CURRENTVERSION record in, containing the current version number of the app database. - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and copy files to the workstation if necessary (see below). - Launch the application. Here is some sample code I threw together (You would, of course, have to add the subs to copy the files and launch the application.): ----- 'Include in module declarations section Private Declare Function GetComputerName Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetComputerNameA" _ (ByVal sBuffer As String, lSize As Long) As Long 'Wrapper for GetComputerName API call Private Function ComputerName() As String Dim strBuffer As String * 256 Dim lngLen As Long lngLen = Len(strBuffer) GetComputerName strBuffer, lngLen ComputerName = Left$(strBuffer, lngLen) End Function 'Called from AutoExec Sub Startup() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim rs As DAO.Recordset Dim strCompName As String Dim strVersion As Variant Set db = CurrentDb() Set rs = db.OpenRecordset("tblVersion", dbOpenDynaset) rs.FindFirst "ComputerName='CURRENTVERSION'" strVersion= rs!Version strCompName = GetComputerName() rs.FindFirst "ComputerName='" & strCompName & "'" If rs.NoMatch Then Call CopyFEFiles rs.AddNew rs!ComputerName = strCompName rs!Version = strVersion rs.Update ElseIf rs!Version <> strVersion Then Call CopyFEFiles rs.Edit rs!Version = strVersion rs.Update End If rs.Close Call LaunchApp Set rs = Nothing Set db = Nothing End Sub ----- Is this something along the lines of what you were looking for? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Like I said I'm open for suggestions...the complicated plan was conceived in order to accommodate ~100 users that have been using their existing desktop shortcut for a long, long, time. I was thinking that this approach, although initially a little cumbersome, is still relatively transparent to the user...in that they still get to click the shortcut to which they are accustomed. As for checking the version of a non-existing database? It seems one approach would be to test for FE existence and proceed, and trap for the error if it does not exist and begin FE update. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Well, I was thinking more like: 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: 3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version 4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. 5. Launch the new FE. Why are you following such a complicated plan? Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just logged on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it doesn't exist on their C: drive? I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Brett, Jim, Gustav, This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be "enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best practices. So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... 1. Split the db. 2. Move FE material to new FE db. 3. Create a version table in new FE db. 4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: 5. Logs in user. 6. Verifies current version. 7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: 8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. 9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. 10. Launches the new FE. Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, I do that for all of my distributed apps. Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of course, it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you elaborate? Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. - In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. - Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. - I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. Well, here it is! ---------- @echo off rem ** Change this variable with each new version release set verfile=123.ver rem ** Create directory if necessary if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app mkdir c:\myappdir :app rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end echo Updating application files. Please Wait... copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% :end rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime start Launcher ---------- -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up times. What do you think? Mark -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon May 3 11:21:36 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:21:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412743@bross.quiznos.net> Access can read info from FMP, but you MUST have FileMaker Pro open and the specific File (table) that you are trying to read open for the ODBC connection to work. They have: -No queries, but calculated fields in tables -A UNIQUE property for fields that does not actually force things to be unique. It adds incermentally to a field, but if you enter a value that already exists it won't raise an error I really forget all the details since it's been a while, but I remember there were about 4 or 5 very basic things about it that flew right in the face of the relational datbase model. Luckily i was working ona small system that only had 1 primary table with de-nnormalized data and a few lookup tables, anything more than that would've been a nightmare. In it's favor it does have cool graphics for forms, but that's about the only good thing I can say about it. And of course, take this with many grains of salt as I am totally biased against it. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Come on Chris - Let's hear the original version! ;-) I looked through the comparison, and they said that FM had something called a Creation Option that was their equivalent to an AutoNumber. It also seemed like to have additional tables you needed to create a separate file for each additional table. It sounds like you're saying that Access can't read data from FM. It that correct? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mackin, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 3 11:29:26 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:29:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >Well, I was thinking more like: > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. >5. Launch the new FE. > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just >logged >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best >practices. > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. >3. Create a version table in new FE db. >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: >5. Logs in user. >6. Verifies current version. >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. >10. Launches the new FE. > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Mark, >I do that for all of my distributed apps. >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of >course, >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you >elaborate? > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > >Well, here it is! >---------- >@echo off >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release >set verfile=123.ver > >rem ** Create directory if necessary >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app >mkdir c:\myappdir > >:app >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > >:end >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime >start Launcher >---------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM >To: '[AccessD]' >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up >times. >What do you think? > > > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon May 3 11:44:42 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:44:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412745@bross.quiznos.net> I remember a good one, the "ID" field in FileMaker Pro was an "AutoNumber" and it held data like GH125, GH126, etc.. The data type in FileMaker Pro was set to a number, but FileMaker Pro doesn't take data types literally. The ODBC connection saw a numerc field and brought in the numeric portion 125, 126 etc. Needless to say this was a real PITA when the ID fields didn't come over correctly (setting the ODBC property to treat all data types as Text did solve this) Upon furhter investigation, data types are virtually meaningless in FMP, "FileMaker Pro has No Data Integrity" is accepted in Date fields, Number fields and text fields (of course their acceptance depends on how many characters you limit the field to, you can have a 255 character Date). You can set up varying degrees on enforcing the data types, but even with the strictest I was able to write data into the system without causing errors. This applies both to "Unique" values and value of the incorrect data type. If I can do anything else to further rant about the poor quality of Filemaker Pro, please let me know. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Access can read info from FMP, but you MUST have FileMaker Pro open and the specific File (table) that you are trying to read open for the ODBC connection to work. They have: -No queries, but calculated fields in tables -A UNIQUE property for fields that does not actually force things to be unique. It adds incermentally to a field, but if you enter a value that already exists it won't raise an error I really forget all the details since it's been a while, but I remember there were about 4 or 5 very basic things about it that flew right in the face of the relational datbase model. Luckily i was working ona small system that only had 1 primary table with de-nnormalized data and a few lookup tables, anything more than that would've been a nightmare. In it's favor it does have cool graphics for forms, but that's about the only good thing I can say about it. And of course, take this with many grains of salt as I am totally biased against it. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Come on Chris - Let's hear the original version! ;-) I looked through the comparison, and they said that FM had something called a Creation Option that was their equivalent to an AutoNumber. It also seemed like to have additional tables you needed to create a separate file for each additional table. It sounds like you're saying that Access can't read data from FM. It that correct? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mackin, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:48:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:48:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: It's just about as far offbase as it can get, and we all jumped on it the last time this link was posted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Tesiny, Ed [mailto:EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? This is probably a very biased review but for what it's worth see http://www.filemaker.com/downloads/pdf/fm_access_comparison.pdf Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 3 11:49:04 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:49:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: Drew: That's where the 2k/4k data pages and record locking by page/record come from. Try creating 9 text fields of 255 characters in a table record. Access 97 will puke it out immediately. I'm not certain how unicode compression fits in with newer versions but I assume it is at the transfer, not storage stage. Of course we have memo fields... Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' >limitation? I've never heard of that one! >... >... >Drew > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:50:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:50:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: Oh, yes, they claim it's relational. If FileMaker is relational, pigs have wings, and always have had! It is still the database of choice for Macs, but then we all know how primitive Mac users are, right? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? RUN FOR THE HILLS! I recently finished a project that involved data being transfered between FileMaker Pro and Access. FileMaker Pro is HORRIBLE, you CANNOT uniquely identify a record, you can therefore figure out how good FileMaker Pro acts as a relatoinal database. I'm not even sure they claim to be a relational database, it's certainly THE choice if you want your database to look pretty. And this review is the polite version. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:53:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:53:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: Avoid FileMaker at all costs. One of the things that users and so-called "developers" like is that it will store multiple values in a field, completely violating normalization. Of course, that makes it fairly useless for data analysis, so the data gets dumped to Access, where it has to be seriously massaged before you can really do anything with it. Trust me, you don't want to do that! I finally managed to wean a former employer off FileMaker (they had started with Macs), but I forever heard "FileMaker would let us do that", which made me grit my teeth and try not to reach for the nearest blunt object. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:37 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hello to all! I may have an opportunity to work on a project where the company has part of what they need already done with a Filemaker database. Where could I find a comparison between the two databases? Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 11:57:43 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:57:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating from A2K to A2002 Message-ID: You shouldn't have any problems at all. The 2000 file format is the default in 2002. I've never had a problem opening and working on 2000 databases in 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Migrating from A2K to A2002 Hi group, I need to migrate an Access 2000 database using Ado, dao, saved queries, classes, api calls,etc to Access 2002. can anybody ginve me some URL's/tips on where to look for changed stuff, pittfalls, etc. tia Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 12:00:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:00:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access Message-ID: Martin, Linking to a 97 database is going to cause a slowdown, regardless of the network it's running on. I believe unicode is the culprit, but I don't recall details. I just know from experience that I do NOT link 2000 or 2002 databases to 97 except with a gun at my head! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access Gustav Main database is Access 2000. On start up it links into multiple Access 97 databases!. WIll try that out and see how it goes. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access > Hi Martin > > > I have a large Access db running on a Novell network. It is very > > slow. Sometime ago there was a lot of discussion on setting in > > Novell whcih would > > improve the perormance of Access on Novell. Anyone remember the parameters > > which could be set. I think Seth came up with a solution. > > Sadly, I don't think we ever heard from Seth what he came up with ... > > So, first, ask your NetWare admin to check these settings: > > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS = 200000 > SET MAXIMUM RECORD LOCKS PER CONNECTION = 100000 > > For newer NetWare version (>=5?) they should be default. > If not, they can simply be typed in (as shown) at the console as they > are dynamic. If it works they should be inserted in the autoexec.ncf > file. > > Second, check that your Novell clients are up to date. > > Also, look up the thread > > Excel 2000 to Access 2000 link slow on Novell network > > from July 2002. It may not represent your situation but has some > hints. > > If you are running Access 97 data (Jet 3.5) on Access 2000 that may be > an issue of its own. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 3 12:03:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:03:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B5E@main2.marlow.com> Hmmm, go figure. Never ran into that problem before, but now that you mention it, I do remember that limitation. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Drew: That's where the 2k/4k data pages and record locking by page/record come from. Try creating 9 text fields of 255 characters in a table record. Access 97 will puke it out immediately. I'm not certain how unicode compression fits in with newer versions but I assume it is at the transfer, not storage stage. Of course we have memo fields... Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' >limitation? I've never heard of that one! >... >... >Drew > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 3 12:18:37 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:18:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting References: <4095F377.17925.116FCE@localhost> Message-ID: <00e901c43132$abe369b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Very low-tech. Very effective. No APIs (woo-hoo!) Thank you. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of > tricks you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which > matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to > the GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in > use. > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 12:41:14 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:41:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: Upon further reflection...what are the consequences of my sequence of events? By that, I mean, how many processes will I have running concurrently? It seems, at first glance, that I'll have the launcher app, a .bat file, AND the local front end open all at once until they close the local front end. This can't be right...at least I hope it's not. How do I get around this? Can the launcher app handle the verification, updating, and launching of the FE and then still close? J?rgen, Brett, >> Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a Database << -J?rgen Vs. >> - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and copy files to the workstation if necessary (see below). << -Brett I think I'll try the filename method. Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >Well, I was thinking more like: > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. >5. Launch the new FE. > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just >logged >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best >practices. > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. >3. Create a version table in new FE db. >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: >5. Logs in user. >6. Verifies current version. >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. >10. Launches the new FE. > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Mark, >I do that for all of my distributed apps. >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of >course, >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you >elaborate? > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > >Well, here it is! >---------- >@echo off >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release >set verfile=123.ver > >rem ** Create directory if necessary >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app >mkdir c:\myappdir > >:app >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > >:end >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime >start Launcher >---------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM >To: '[AccessD]' >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up >times. >What do you think? > > > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon May 3 12:42:26 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:42:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B5E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, That can happen on an update as well. The error is "Record too large". Of course there is a lot that goes into that. Memo and OLE fields only take 14 bytes or 16 bytes in the fixed portion of the record (version dependent) for a pointer to the chain, unless they are <30 bytes in size, then their stored with the record. There's also 1 byte overhead for each field and 7 bytes for the record. For A2000 and up (JET 4.0) the page size was increased to 4096 bytes, but Unicode takes 2 bytes, so it's virtually the same. Not too often you run into it, but when you do, there is no getting around it except to split the table. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Hmmm, go figure. Never ran into that problem before, but now that you mention it, I do remember that limitation. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access vs. Filemaker Comparison Reference? Drew: That's where the 2k/4k data pages and record locking by page/record come from. Try creating 9 text fields of 255 characters in a table record. Access 97 will puke it out immediately. I'm not certain how unicode compression fits in with newer versions but I assume it is at the transfer, not storage stage. Of course we have memo fields... Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >VERY biased. Where did they get the '2000 character limit per record' >limitation? I've never heard of that one! >... >... >Drew > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 3 12:49:46 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 17:49:46 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer Message-ID: Not sure if it will get you as close as you need...but couldn't you record the time before you open the query...and record the time after...and then take the difference."START" and "FINISH" were text boxes on the form I lauched the query from. Dim stDocName As String stDocName = "Query1" Me!start = Now() DoCmd.OpenQuery stDocName, acNormal, acEdit Me!finish = Now() >From: "William Hindman" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Timer >Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 06:57:29 -0400 > >...take a look at http://www.CleanDataSystems.com > >William Hindman >"The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Martin Reid" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:18 AM >Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer > > > > I want to test the time taken to > > > > Open a form - get the load time > > > > Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or >a > > file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but >that > > is covered. > > > > > > Would anyone have a function that measures such things? > > > > Martin > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 13:06:56 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:06:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE580@TAPPEEXCH01> Mark, First of all, I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file. All of the file copy operations are already built into VBA, and you can write a quick 'n' dirty routine to do it from there. J?rgen's statement doesn't apply in this case, since you already stated that you want to use the mdb file as the launcher. In this case, the database is already open. The difference between checking for a file and pulling a record from an update table is of no consequence to the app's performance. I am still assuming that you don't want to change the user's workstation paths, which is why I gave you sample code to support this. If changing their shortcuts is an option, you could use my batch file approach. Quick, simple, easy to maintain, updates are as simple as changing the version number in the batch file. I really don't want to start a turf war about the "best" way to do this. To each their own. It just seems that you are confused as to what you are trying to accomplish, and I'm just trying to nail down the best solution that will suit your needs. Again, to recap what I had in mind in my previous message: - User starts launcher, located at your existing server location. - Launcher checks workstation record in it's table to determine if it exists/is up to date. - If necessary, Launcher copies the newest FE files to workstation, and logs version number in its own table. - Launcher shells out to launch FE mdb file stored on workstation, and closes itself e.g.: Shell "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE c:\myappdir\myapp.mdb" Application.Quit This results in ONE application open at a time (except for split second between the Shell statement and the Application.Quit statement). -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Upon further reflection...what are the consequences of my sequence of events? By that, I mean, how many processes will I have running concurrently? It seems, at first glance, that I'll have the launcher app, a .bat file, AND the local front end open all at once until they close the local front end. This can't be right...at least I hope it's not. How do I get around this? Can the launcher app handle the verification, updating, and launching of the FE and then still close? J?rgen, Brett, >> Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a Database << -J?rgen Vs. >> - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and copy files to the workstation if necessary (see below). << -Brett I think I'll try the filename method. Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >Well, I was thinking more like: > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. >5. Launch the new FE. > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just >logged >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if it >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real concurrency >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry persons >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding best >practices. > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > >1. Split the db. >2. Move FE material to new FE db. >3. Create a version table in new FE db. >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: >5. Logs in user. >6. Verifies current version. >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. >10. Launches the new FE. > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >Mark, >I do that for all of my distributed apps. >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of >course, >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you >elaborate? > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on their >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > >Well, here it is! >---------- >@echo off >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release >set verfile=123.ver > >rem ** Create directory if necessary >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app >mkdir c:\myappdir > >:app >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer version >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > >:end >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime >start Launcher >---------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM >To: '[AccessD]' >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need to >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing shortcut, >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently check >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up >times. >What do you think? > > > >Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 3 14:29:51 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 13:29:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: A launcher can do it all very well. Including making folders, verifying user name and getting itself out of the way. It also gives you access to api functions, for example, I used a copyfile function that allows you to overwrite the destination if it exists. I use a run code macro and have everything in a single tiny module. It does mean that there will momentarily be two access application processes open concurrently for each user. I use the ShellExecute api call to launch the file after a successful copy and when it succeeds, the next line of code is: Application.Quit and the launcher disappears. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" > >Upon further reflection...what are the consequences of my sequence of >events? By that, I mean, how many processes will I have running >concurrently? It seems, at first glance, that I'll have the launcher app, >a >.bat file, AND the local front end open all at once until they close the >local front end. This can't be right...at least I hope it's not. How do I >get around this? > >Can the launcher app handle the verification, updating, and launching of >the >FE and then still close? > > >J?rgen, Brett, > > >> Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a >Database << -J?rgen > >Vs. > > >> - Check the workstation record against the CURRENTVERSION record, and >copy >files to the workstation if necessary (see below). << -Brett > > >I think I'll try the filename method. > > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > >In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions >that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including >batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the >one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to >run > >each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal >Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the >same > >FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at >to > >a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the >file > >path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named >"UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with >the > >master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the >property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over >the new version and launched it. > >Deployment required a few simple steps: > >1. Make changes to a development file; >2. Update the version property of that file; >3. Set the file suffix; >4. Copy the file to the deployment location; >5. Delete the previous file. > >This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a >file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file >to > >check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the >same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to >check the UserVersion property I created. > >I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API >call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to >9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version >number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version >number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a >user > >version property rather than a file name was because the users might change >the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE >to > >laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. >Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a >database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it >to do that only. > >BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and >copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically >accomodated. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > >Well, I was thinking more like: > > > >1. Split the db. > >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > > > >Utilize batch file (as shown in my example) to: > >3. Check .ver file in user's app directory against current version > >4. Copy down the new FE and supporting files. > >5. Launch the new FE. > > > >Why are you following such a complicated plan? > >Won't it be a huge juggling act to kick them out of the app they just > >logged > >on to to copy down a new FE, and then log them back in again? > >What about users that don't have the FE or app directory on their > >workstation yet? How can they launch it to check the current version if >it > >doesn't exist on their C: drive? > > > >I know there are others who do it this way. For the life of me, I can't > >understand why. Maybe someone can enlighten me. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:02 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > > > > >Brett, Jim, Gustav, > > > >This is the first application that I've really had to tweak to be > >"enterprise" ready. Most all of my previous apps were "low usage"...more > >office automation or strictly robust reporting tools...no real >concurrency > >issues. This application has grown to include multiple data entry >persons > >as well as simultaneous users. I'm open for any suggestions regarding >best > >practices. > > > >So, to combine the suggestions thus far, here is the current plan... > > > >1. Split the db. > >2. Move FE material to new FE db. > >3. Create a version table in new FE db. > >4. Create a version table in the launcher app db. > > > >Utilize existing db as a launcher app that: > >5. Logs in user. > >6. Verifies current version. > >7. Calls a .bat file which, if needed: > >8. Creates the new directory structure for the local FE. > >9. Copies down the new FE and supporting files. > >10. Launches the new FE. > > > >Did I miss anything? Should I try something else? > > > > > >Mark > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:14 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > > > > >Mark, > >I do that for all of my distributed apps. > >Adds half a second to the startup time of an application (unless, of > >course, > >it has to copy a new version of the FE to their workstation.) > >Don't know how using a batch file would add to the overhead. Can you > >elaborate? > > > >Oh yeah, here is a sample of my batch file. > >- In our office, all users have the Access 2000 runtime installed on >their > >machines, and we use server-based start menu profiles. > >- Installing new apps on their workstation is as simple as dropping a > >shortcut to the batch file in their start menu directory. > >- I created an app shortcut called Launcher, that has the command line to > >start the app. It is located in the same server directory as the batch > >file, and is executed at the end of the batch file processing. > > > >Well, here it is! > >---------- > >@echo off > >rem ** Change this variable with each new version release > >set verfile=123.ver > > > >rem ** Create directory if necessary > >if exist c:\myappdir\nul goto app > >mkdir c:\myappdir > > > >:app > >rem ** Copy the newest application file from server if it is newer >version > >if exist c:\myappdir\%verfile% goto end > >echo Updating application files. Please Wait... > >copy h:\myappdir\myfrontend.mdb c:\myappdir /y > nul > > > >rem ** Delete the existing version file, and create a new one > >if exist c:\myappdir\*.ver del c:\myappdir\*.ver > >type nul > c:\myappdir\%verfile% > > > >:end > >rem ** Run the application using Access Runtime > >start Launcher > >---------- > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:48 PM > >To: '[AccessD]' > >Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes > > > > > >I need the weekend to think this over, but I'm open for suggestions. Our > >department currently utilizes an existing database which is not split. > >There are an estimated 100 shortcuts to this database littered throughout > >the department. Do to a rising concern in "concurrency issues", I need >to > >split this db. With such an ingrained dependency on the existing >shortcut, > >it was suggested that I utilize the existing db as nothing more than a > >glorified .bat file starter to distribute the new FE and subsequently >check > >revision status. This seems like an awful lot of overhead in order to > >placate the existing user base, and obviously would increase start-up > >times. > >What do you think? > > > > > > > >Mark _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 3 14:11:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:11:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40969971.5050404@shaw.ca> Have you looked at this Access Addin software method for forms language on fly translation Trial version available From Moscow Access User Group. http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Downloads/Trans/Trans.asp Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the >fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design >view. > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM >Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese > > >Dear List: > >I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and >'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to >show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Mon May 3 15:04:24 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:04:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> No... >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" The short for months can be different in other languages and your code will fail if a local language windows is used. Please find code example which should put you on the road. The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API guide = good. Erwin Option Compare Database Private Type SYSTEMTIME wYear As Integer wMonth As Integer wDayOfWeek As Integer wDay As Integer wHour As Integer wMinute As Integer wSecond As Integer wMilliseconds As Integer End Type Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal cchDate As Long) As Long Public Sub testtt() 'KPD-Team 2000 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME With ST .wDay = 31 .wMonth = 8 .wYear = 2000 End With Buffer = String(255, 0) GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) MsgBox Buffer End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Dear list: > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' date format (dd/mm/yy)? > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks you can use. One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 3 15:09:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:09:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PrtDevMode PrinterName Message-ID: We use API calls in our apps to set paper size for our reports at runtime based on user selections in a form. Suddenly, we have a use with a Looong printer device name, which seems to choke the 32 character buffer allocated to the name. Does anyone know which elements can be tweaked to get back a printer name longer than 32 characters? Charlotte Foust From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 3 15:07:10 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:07:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: How do I handle the situation where someone opens the server copy of the FE directly? Brett, There is no doubt that I am confused;) But here goes... >> I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file << I agree, I'm re-working it accordingly. >> J?rgen's statement doesn't apply << -J?rgen...please correct me if I'm wrong, but I disagree. For example...the launcher app contains a version record "2", and the filename of the local FE is "DbName_FE_1.mdb". Since Instr(strFileName, strVersion) = 0, I update the FE. If I use this method I see no reason to store a table of workstations and the latest installed FE...or am I missing something? >> recap << Except for the version checking...exactly. >> ONE application open at a time << Excellent...thank you for clarifying this. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, First of all, I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file. All of the file copy operations are already built into VBA, and you can write a quick 'n' dirty routine to do it from there. J?rgen's statement doesn't apply in this case, since you already stated that you want to use the mdb file as the launcher. In this case, the database is already open. The difference between checking for a file and pulling a record from an update table is of no consequence to the app's performance. I am still assuming that you don't want to change the user's workstation paths, which is why I gave you sample code to support this. If changing their shortcuts is an option, you could use my batch file approach. Quick, simple, easy to maintain, updates are as simple as changing the version number in the batch file. I really don't want to start a turf war about the "best" way to do this. To each their own. It just seems that you are confused as to what you are trying to accomplish, and I'm just trying to nail down the best solution that will suit your needs. Again, to recap what I had in mind in my previous message: - User starts launcher, located at your existing server location. - Launcher checks workstation record in it's table to determine if it exists/is up to date. - If necessary, Launcher copies the newest FE files to workstation, and logs version number in its own table. - Launcher shells out to launch FE mdb file stored on workstation, and closes itself e.g.: Shell "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE c:\myappdir\myapp.mdb" Application.Quit This results in ONE application open at a time (except for split second between the Shell statement and the Application.Quit statement). From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 3 15:15:27 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:15:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40969971.5050404@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <015e01c4314b$6046d6e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Thanks for the link. Looks like I should check it out. Do you know if you have to supply your own translation or the program does that for you? Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] More Chinese > Have you looked at this Access Addin software method for forms language > on fly translation > Trial version available > From Moscow Access User Group. > http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Downloads/Trans/Trans.asp > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the > >fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design > >view. > > > >Rocky > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM > >Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese > > > > > >Dear List: > > > >I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and > >'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to > >show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Mon May 3 15:20:39 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:20:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D034C69@mailbe01> Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 3 15:20:59 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 13:20:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese References: <006501c4305b$e263b940$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <006d01c43061$c30ff3a0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40969971.5050404@shaw.ca> <015e01c4314b$6046d6e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <4096A9AB.3070104@shaw.ca> You do your own. If it did automatic translations you would probably have to add a couple of zeros to price. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >Thanks for the link. Looks like I should check it out. Do you know if you >have to supply your own translation or the program does that for you? > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:11 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] More Chinese > > > > >>Have you looked at this Access Addin software method for forms language >>on fly translation >>Trial version available >> From Moscow Access User Group. >>http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Downloads/Trans/Trans.asp >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>P.S. In order to support multiple languages, I need to change them on the >>>fly while the user is running an mde. So no opening of a form in design >>>view. >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >>>To: >>>Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:41 AM >>>Subject: [AccessD] More Chinese >>> >>> >>>Dear List: >>> >>>I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and >>>'No' buttons. Can you control what those buttons display? I may need to >>>show the Chinese characters for Yes and No in them. >>> >>>MTIA >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 3 16:07:09 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:07:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE58C@TAPPEEXCH01> If you choose to determine their current app version by checking for the existence of a file (e.g. DbName_FE_1.mdb), then yes, you wouldn't need to keep track of updates in a table in the launcher mdb. That way or my way, doesn't really matter, they'll both do the job just fine. Here's why I said that J?rgen's statement about performance didn't apply: - He was comparing checking for a file's existence, vs. opening a copy of the FE mdb to check a database version property. - I was comparing checking for a file's existence vs. retrieving a record from a table. Performance wise, you are looking at no tangible difference if you lookup the value from a table instead of looking for a file on their hard drive. (unless you get all bent out of shape about performance differences of < .01 sec). IMHO, the only valid consideration is choosing the solution that is the easiest to implement, maintain and deploy. I'll leave it to you to decide what works best for you. Off the top of my head, I would guess that the easiest way to keep someone from directly opening a FE on the server would be to check the CurrentProject.Path property at startup (AutoExec). If it is anything other than your app directory, kick them out. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes How do I handle the situation where someone opens the server copy of the FE directly? Brett, There is no doubt that I am confused;) But here goes... >> I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file << I agree, I'm re-working it accordingly. >> J?rgen's statement doesn't apply << -J?rgen...please correct me if I'm wrong, but I disagree. For example...the launcher app contains a version record "2", and the filename of the local FE is "DbName_FE_1.mdb". Since Instr(strFileName, strVersion) = 0, I update the FE. If I use this method I see no reason to store a table of workstations and the latest installed FE...or am I missing something? >> recap << Except for the version checking...exactly. >> ONE application open at a time << Excellent...thank you for clarifying this. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Mark, First of all, I don't see a reason why you need to even use batch file. All of the file copy operations are already built into VBA, and you can write a quick 'n' dirty routine to do it from there. J?rgen's statement doesn't apply in this case, since you already stated that you want to use the mdb file as the launcher. In this case, the database is already open. The difference between checking for a file and pulling a record from an update table is of no consequence to the app's performance. I am still assuming that you don't want to change the user's workstation paths, which is why I gave you sample code to support this. If changing their shortcuts is an option, you could use my batch file approach. Quick, simple, easy to maintain, updates are as simple as changing the version number in the batch file. I really don't want to start a turf war about the "best" way to do this. To each their own. It just seems that you are confused as to what you are trying to accomplish, and I'm just trying to nail down the best solution that will suit your needs. Again, to recap what I had in mind in my previous message: - User starts launcher, located at your existing server location. - Launcher checks workstation record in it's table to determine if it exists/is up to date. - If necessary, Launcher copies the newest FE files to workstation, and logs version number in its own table. - Launcher shells out to launch FE mdb file stored on workstation, and closes itself e.g.: Shell "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\MSACCESS.EXE c:\myappdir\myapp.mdb" Application.Quit This results in ONE application open at a time (except for split second between the Shell statement and the Application.Quit statement). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 3 16:33:20 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:33:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates In-Reply-To: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D034C69@mailbe01> Message-ID: <000001c43156$4d8f9360$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hi Nanette Not sure if it's the same in the later versions but in A97 you can just create a form called Normal within your MDB. Set the properties of the textbox, label etc in the Toolbar on this form, save it and any new form will adopt those properties. HTH -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gould, Nanette > Sent: 03 May 2004 21:21 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates > > > Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that > Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with > one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do > this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that > didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup > Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. > If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired > of making the exact same changes to every new form and report > I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. > > > > Nanette Gould > > + > > > > Department of Finance > > Crystal Terrace > > 3319 West End Ave. > > Suite 700 > > ? > > (w) 615.322.3540 > > (fax) 615.343.4052 > > : > > nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu > > The information transmitted with any attachments is intended > solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed > and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If > you have received this email in error, please contact the > sender and delete the material from your system. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 3 16:47:14 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates In-Reply-To: <14417734.1083615854199.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000201c43158$32a0d260$de1811d8@danwaters> Nanette, You could make a library database that includes a template form and template report that each have their settings changed the way you want. You could also have different templates for different uses. This library database could also contain a standard module with any module procedures you repeatedly use, and queries, tables, macros, or pages as well. I don't believe that Access has a 'normal' template for forms and reports, in a way that's similar to what Word has. HTH, Dan Waters ProMation Systems -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gould, Nanette Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:21 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System. mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Mon May 3 16:58:03 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:58:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook location Message-ID: <009d01c43159$c2f36d40$6701a8c0@joe> Does anyone the call to return the path where Outlook is located? Joe O'Connell From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 3 17:50:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 08:50:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <4097594B.26752.2A30433@localhost> On 3 May 2004 at 22:04, Erwin Craps - IT Helps wrote: > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. I realise it won't work for everyone, but it would work for the original correspondent for his specific request. That's why I called it "one simple way" and said the API was more versatile. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon May 3 19:16:12 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:16:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Message-ID: <74840-2200452401612895@christopherhawkins.com> I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. Does anyone know? -Christiopher- From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:28:55 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:28:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <74840-2200452401612895@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <20040504002854.ZTCD1702.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> CREATE TABLE table ADD COLUMN colname datatype where datatype is "increment" or "counter" ...I think anyway. Susan H. I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. Does anyone know? -Christiopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:31:09 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:31:09 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Message-ID: <20040504003108.ZTXR1702.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT CREAT TABLE Table (Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. Susan H. CREATE TABLE table ADD COLUMN colname datatype where datatype is "increment" or "counter" ...I think anyway. Susan H. I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. Does anyone know? -Christiopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 3 19:32:31 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:32:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? References: <74840-2200452401612895@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <00a501c4316f$49966360$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Chris Just went thorough this last week I should be simple but it aint. Took me days to get this sorted. First you create a Number field then you go back and give it the AutoIncrement property See code below - it does it all Hope this helps Darren ============================================================= Private Sub cmdCreateAutoNumber_Click() 'Assume you already have a table named tblStudents. 'Assume the New autonumber field is to be called StudentID 'This Function actually creates firstly the StudentID field as Number '(As a long Int actually) Then changes the field's property to AutoIncrement Call fCreateAutoNumberField("tblStudents", "StudentID") End sub Function fCreateAutoNumberField( _ ByVal strTableName As String, _ ByVal strFieldName As String) _ As Boolean ' ' Creates an Autonumber field with name=strFieldName ' in table strTableName. ' Accepts ' strTableName: Name of table in which to create the field ' strFieldName: Name of the new field ' Returns True on success, false otherwise ' On Error GoTo ErrHandler Dim db As DAO.Database Dim fld As DAO.Field Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = Application.CurrentDb Set tdf = db.TableDefs(strTableName) ' First create a field with datatype = Long Integer Set fld = tdf.CreateField(strFieldName, dbLong) With fld ' Appending dbAutoIncrField to Attributes ' tells Jet that it's an Autonumber field .Attributes = .Attributes Or dbAutoIncrField End With With tdf.Fields .Append fld .Refresh End With fCreateAutoNumberField = True ExitHere: Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing Exit Function ErrHandler: fCreateAutoNumberField = False With Err MsgBox "Error " & .Number & vbCrLf & .Description, _ vbOKOnly Or vbCritical, "CreateAutonumberField" End With Resume ExitHere End Function From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon May 3 19:45:11 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:45:11 -0600 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Message-ID: <153450-2200452404511605@christopherhawkins.com> Awesome! I was trying INCREMENT and AUTONUMBER and getting nowhere. Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unab;e to find it in the A2K3 Help files. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:31:09 -0400 >Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT > >CREAT TABLE Table >(Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) > >Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. > >Susan H. > >CREATE TABLE table >ADD COLUMN colname datatype > >where datatype is "increment" or "counter" > >...I think anyway. > >Susan H. > >I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end >database since >he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. > >I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all >that, >but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to >script that. > >Does anyone know? > >-Christiopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:50:48 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:50:48 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <153450-2200452404511605@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <20040504005047.GTLS1782.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> In the book Martin and I wrote. :) I can't possibly remember them all -- but it's a great SQL reference, if I say so myself. :) Martin may chime in here, but I think "increment" is the SQL Server version. Susan H. Awesome! I was trying INCREMENT and AUTONUMBER and getting nowhere. Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unab;e to find it in the A2K3 Help files. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 19:51:15 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:51:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <00a501c4316f$49966360$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <20040504005114.GTQX1782.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Are you sure you had to create the Number field first? I've never had to. Susan H. Hi Chris Just went thorough this last week I should be simple but it aint. Took me days to get this sorted. First you create a Number field then you go back and give it the AutoIncrement property See code below - it does it all Hope this helps Darren ============================================================= Private Sub cmdCreateAutoNumber_Click() 'Assume you already have a table named tblStudents. 'Assume the New autonumber field is to be called StudentID 'This Function actually creates firstly the StudentID field as Number '(As a long Int actually) Then changes the field's property to AutoIncrement Call fCreateAutoNumberField("tblStudents", "StudentID") End sub Function fCreateAutoNumberField( _ ByVal strTableName As String, _ ByVal strFieldName As String) _ As Boolean ' ' Creates an Autonumber field with name=strFieldName ' in table strTableName. ' Accepts ' strTableName: Name of table in which to create the field ' strFieldName: Name of the new field ' Returns True on success, false otherwise ' On Error GoTo ErrHandler Dim db As DAO.Database Dim fld As DAO.Field Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = Application.CurrentDb Set tdf = db.TableDefs(strTableName) ' First create a field with datatype = Long Integer Set fld = tdf.CreateField(strFieldName, dbLong) With fld ' Appending dbAutoIncrField to Attributes ' tells Jet that it's an Autonumber field .Attributes = .Attributes Or dbAutoIncrField End With With tdf.Fields .Append fld .Refresh End With fCreateAutoNumberField = True ExitHere: Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing Exit Function ErrHandler: fCreateAutoNumberField = False With Err MsgBox "Error " & .Number & vbCrLf & .Description, _ vbOKOnly Or vbCritical, "CreateAutonumberField" End With Resume ExitHere End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 3 19:59:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:59:49 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: <153450-2200452404511605@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: >Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unable to find it in the A2K3 Help files. They don't call it NOT Help for nothing! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Awesome! I was trying INCREMENT and AUTONUMBER and getting nowhere. Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unab;e to find it in the A2K3 Help files. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:31:09 -0400 >Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT > >CREAT TABLE Table >(Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) > >Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. > >Susan H. > >CREATE TABLE table >ADD COLUMN colname datatype > >where datatype is "increment" or "counter" > >...I think anyway. > >Susan H. > >I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end >database since >he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. > >I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all >that, >but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to >script that. > >Does anyone know? > >-Christiopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 3 20:20:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:20:21 -0400 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040504012022.BCWT1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hey John, if it weren't for the Help files, I might not have a job. ;) Susan H. >Where did you look at up, BTW? I was unable to find it in the A2K3 >Help files. They don't call it NOT Help for nothing! ;-) From glen_mcwilliams at msn.com Mon May 3 23:35:53 2004 From: glen_mcwilliams at msn.com (Glen McWilliams) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 21:35:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer Message-ID: John Colby had such a timer in his framework. >From: "Martin Reid" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: [AccessD] Access Timer >Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:18:55 +0100 > >I want to test the time taken to > >Open a form - get the load time > >Run a query - named query - get the time take to produce the results or a >file or a report. We may also require the database to send an eal but that >is covered. > > >Would anyone have a function that measures such things? > >Martin > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 02:15:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 00:15:16 -0700 Subject: FW: [AccessD] Using CREATE TABLE scripts in Access? References: <20040504003108.ZTXR1702.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <40974304.7010302@shaw.ca> I seem to remember there may be a problem setting "allow zero length property" on field properties using SQL methods But there is some odd workaround. Susan Harkins wrote: >Sorry... Thats AUTOINCREMENT > >CREAT TABLE Table >(Field AUTOINCREMENT, ....) > >Don't even need the ADD -- should've looked it up first. I'm sorry. > >Susan H. > >CREATE TABLE table >ADD COLUMN colname datatype > >where datatype is "increment" or "counter" > >...I think anyway. > >Susan H. > >I'm using a CREATE TABLE script to update a client's back-end database since >he refuses to take it offline or allow me after-hours access. > >I know how to do a CREATE TABLE script and set a primary key and all that, >but I need to create an AutoNumber field. I'm not sure how to script that. > >Does anyone know? > >-Christiopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 02:22:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:22:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Tue May 4 03:58:48 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:58:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates References: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D034C69@mailbe01> Message-ID: <002401c431b6$0539cee0$3f412d3e@jester> Hi Nanette, in A2k in the options you can 'tell' acces which form to use as a template. I do not know if that is the same for XP and 2003. I am not sure for reports either, and i do not have access running on this PC so i cannot check it for you. Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gould, Nanette" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue May 4 04:27:48 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 05:27:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <409729D4.111.174488@localhost> On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi all > > Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". > > Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? > Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? > > > > Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) > I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least CLng. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Only the mediocre are at their best all the time. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue May 4 08:16:01 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:16:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates In-Reply-To: <31378272.1083661954555.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000a01c431d9$f2de84b0$de1811d8@danwaters> I just looked. On the Forms/Reports tabs in options (AXP), there are two fields to identify the name of a Form template and the name of a Report template. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bert-Jan Brinkhuis Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Hi Nanette, in A2k in the options you can 'tell' acces which form to use as a template. I do not know if that is the same for XP and 2003. I am not sure for reports either, and i do not have access running on this PC so i cannot check it for you. Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gould, Nanette" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Does anyone know of a way to change the Normal template that Access uses to create forms and reports by replacing it with one of my own? I thought the help screens told me I could do this by changing the template in the System.mdw file but that didn't work. They make references to the My Workgroup Information file but don't tell you how to alter that file. If anyone has done this I would appreciate it. I'm so tired of making the exact same changes to every new form and report I create. I use Access XP and Access 2003. Nanette Gould + Department of Finance Crystal Terrace 3319 West End Ave. Suite 700 ? (w) 615.322.3540 (fax) 615.343.4052 : nanette.gould at vanderbilt.edu The information transmitted with any attachments is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your system. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Tue May 4 08:21:45 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:21:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D15086C@mailbe01> This solution works only for whatever database you're working in, not for all databases which is the solution I'm looking for. Thanks to everyone who offered help, I think I'll try your suggestion of a database with a library of form and report templates and I can just import them into whatever database I'm working in and change the default templates for that database. I wish there was a way to change it so that all databases would use it, but I guess I'm out of luck. Thanks, Nanette -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com ] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates I just looked. On the Forms/Reports tabs in options (AXP), there are two fields to identify the name of a Form template and the name of a Report template. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bert-Jan Brinkhuis Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Change the default form and report templates Hi Nanette, in A2k in the options you can 'tell' acces which form to use as a template. I do not know if that is the same for XP and 2003. I am not sure for reports either, and i do not have access running on this PC so i cannot check it for you. Bert-Jan From adtp at touchtelindia.net Tue May 4 09:11:55 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:41:55 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] How to create a 2 year multimonth report References: <01B619CB8F6C8C478EDAC39191AEC51EE73612@DOESEFPEML02.EUS.FLDOE.INT> Message-ID: <008801c431e1$d2f7e300$4d1865cb@winxp> Susan, I have not seen any reply to your post so far. If the problem is yet to be resolved, the following course of action is suggested - Let Q_Cat be the source query (or table) having the following columns - MonthYear (Text) - showing 'Jan 03' etc Item (Text) - Typical entries 'Room' & 'Meals' Booked (Number) - This field will have the value of Rooms or Meals booked. Based upon the above, create a crosstab query. In design view of this query, specify as follows - MonthYear - Group By - Column Heading Item - Group By - Row Heading Booked - Sum - Value In properties dialog box of this query, against Column Headings, enter the desired sequence of columns (e.g. "Jan 03", "Jan 04", "Feb 03", "Feb 04" and so on). This will get you the required output. The SQL for this query will look like - TRANSFORM Sum(Q_Cat.Booked) AS SumOfBooked SELECT Q_Cat.Item FROM Q_Cat GROUP BY Q_Cat.Item PIVOT Q_Cat.MonthYear In ("Jan 03","Jan 04","Feb 03","Feb 04","Mar 03","Mar 04"); Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Klos, Susan To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 17:08 Subject: [AccessD] How to create a 2 year multimonth report I have to create a summary report which has to include this year's data and last year's data. It is to look something like this: Item Jan 04 Jan 03 Feb 04 Feb 03 Mar 04 Mar 03 Meals 200 198 210 209 185 190 Rooms 30 28 34 34 29 31 I can do the summary for 04 and 03 but I can't figure out how to get the months together like above. Susan Klos Senior Database Analyst Evaluation and Reporting Florida Department of Education 850-245-0708 sc 205-0708 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 4 09:28:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:28:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B67@main2.marlow.com> Ya, no kidding. The writer of that may think that the dreaded 'overflow' error may be bad, wait until they get goofy numbers from floating point calculations! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 4 09:31:50 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:31:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Erwin: What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and dd/mm/yy? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. > For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API > guide = good. > > Erwin > > > Option Compare Database > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias > "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As > SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal > cchDate As Long) As Long > Public Sub testtt() > 'KPD-Team 2000 > 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ > 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net > Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME > With ST > .wDay = 31 > .wMonth = 8 > .wYear = 2000 > End With > Buffer = String(255, 0) > GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) > Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) > MsgBox Buffer > End Sub > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' > date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks > you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the > GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 09:44:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:44:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD83C@stekelbes.ithelps.local> <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <19430211101.20040504164422@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky At least four variants here: dd-mm-yy(yy) and (yy)yy-mm-dd Also: d-m-yyyy. /gustav > What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and > dd/mm/yy? From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 4 09:52:30 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:52:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: yyyy/mm/dd Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Erwin: What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and dd/mm/yy? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. > For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API > guide = good. > > Erwin > > > Option Compare Database > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias > "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As > SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal > cchDate As Long) As Long > Public Sub testtt() > 'KPD-Team 2000 > 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ > 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net > Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME > With ST > .wDay = 31 > .wMonth = 8 > .wYear = 2000 > End With > Buffer = String(255, 0) > GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) > Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) > MsgBox Buffer > End Sub > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' > date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks > you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the > GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 10:26:13 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:26:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: In some language settings, the delimiter is either a period rather than a hyphen or slash. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Hi Rocky At least four variants here: dd-mm-yy(yy) and (yy)yy-mm-dd Also: d-m-yyyy. /gustav > What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy > and dd/mm/yy? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 10:31:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:31:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 10:47:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:47:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3833999799.20040504174731@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? /gustav > Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess > they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people > simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem > to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or > subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi all > Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". > Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why > not let a programmer proofread such tips? > > Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) > If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, > you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl > instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers > up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that > large." However, later on down the line, it might. > Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with > hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the > dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different > from using CInt. The syntax is: > CDBl(numericstring) > CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up > to 1.7976931348623158E+308. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 11:04:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:04:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Which just goes to show that it is important to understand what datatypes are for, how they work with the various math and logical operations, and what the specific variable is intended to do. If a float was the only datatype ever needed, it would be the only one available! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 4 11:13:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:13:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B6E@main2.marlow.com> Wow, a topic we can all agree on! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Which just goes to show that it is important to understand what datatypes are for, how they work with the various math and logical operations, and what the specific variable is intended to do. If a float was the only datatype ever needed, it would be the only one available! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi all Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that large." However, later on down the line, it might. Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different from using CInt. The syntax is: CDBl(numericstring) CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up to 1.7976931348623158E+308. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 4 11:48:51 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:48:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD842@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I'm aware of the folowing. Seperators / - . (dot is germany at my knowledge) Order dd mm yy mm dd yy Iso order yyyy mm dd My comment was intended on the alfa month name. I know a ticket sales application (In MS Access) used in Germany and Belgium that crashes if the computer is not set on English month names. Somewher in the code is alfa month used and it crashes on German or Dutch local settings for some months. For example English: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Duth: Jan Feb Mar Apr Mei Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec German: Jan Feb Mrz Apr Mai Jun Jul Aug Sep Okt Nov Dez As you notice a lot of shorts are identical. This ticket app, work fine until after a few months in Mai a (important) report no longer worked and gave an error. The cause of the error was that when building his SQL string he use the mmm format to specify a date. Ofcourse in English its is May but in Dutch it is Mei. So access gave a runtime error. So never use alfa shorts for months and never split a date based on a fix seperator like "/" or "-". You get in to trouble one day... And these are errors hard to find. The reason why I know german use . As seperator is because a Belgian Electronic Banking software fails to work when the pc is set to German (We are trilangual in Belgium). You can leave the pc set to German but you need to change the regional settings date format seperator to / or -. I and the bank helpdesk searched for about 8 hours to solve this.... There is another oddity I Access when using dates... I believe its a bug since Access 2K. Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with #[Date]# ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 january 2004 ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 december 2004 ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 december 2004 Bizare he? Never trust Access with dates..... I supose this bug is only in the international versions... Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Erwin: What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and dd/mm/yy? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > No... > >>"One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > >>Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04")" > > The short for months can be different in other languages and your code > will fail if a local language windows is used. > Please find code example which should put you on the road. > The API GetDateFormat is the way to go. It pretty simple. > For total Api list visit the mentioned website to download the free API > guide = good. > > Erwin > > > Option Compare Database > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > Private Declare Function GetDateFormat Lib "kernel32" Alias > "GetDateFormatA" (ByVal Locale As Long, ByVal dwFlags As Long, lpDate As > SYSTEMTIME, ByVal lpFormat As String, ByVal lpDateStr As String, ByVal > cchDate As Long) As Long > Public Sub testtt() > 'KPD-Team 2000 > 'URL: http://www.allapi.net/ > 'E-Mail: KPDTeam at Allapi.net > Dim Buffer As String, ST As SYSTEMTIME > With ST > .wDay = 31 > .wMonth = 8 > .wYear = 2000 > End With > Buffer = String(255, 0) > GetDateFormat ByVal 0&, 0, ST, vbNullString, Buffer, Len(Buffer) > Buffer = Left$(Buffer, InStr(1, Buffer, Chr$(0)) - 1) > MsgBox Buffer > End Sub > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > > On 2 May 2004 at 11:38, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear list: > > > > Is there an easy way to determine if Windows is set to that 'other' > date format (dd/mm/yy)? > > > That's only one of a large number of possible alternatives. > > Why do you want to know. Depending on that, there are a number of tricks > you can use. > > One simple way would be to compare Datevalue("1/6/04") to > Datevalue("6 Jan 04") and Datevalue("1 Jun 04") and see which matches. > > A more complicated, but also more versatile way is to use a call to the > GetDateFormat() API and see exactly what regional format is in use. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mlcollins1948 at alltel.net Tue May 4 10:52:01 2004 From: mlcollins1948 at alltel.net (Michael Collins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:52:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. Thanks Michael From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 12:02:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:02:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD842@stekelbes.ithelps.local> References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD842@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <2138480241.20040504190212@cactus.dk> Hi Erwin > There is another oddity I Access when using dates... > I believe its a bug since Access 2K. > Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with #[Date]# > ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 january 2004 > ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 december > 2004 > ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 > december 2004 > Bizare he? > Never trust Access with dates..... > I supose this bug is only in the international versions... It's not a bug, it's CDate() being intelligent. First attempt is to check if the expression conforms to a US date. If that fails, it tries an international (ISO) format or your local settings, then another etc. - that's why it also understands #2004/01/12#. /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 12:13:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:13:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they don't use multiplication or division. Not true. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi Charlotte Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? /gustav > Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess > they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people > simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They > seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to > adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi all > Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". > Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? Why > not let a programmer proofread such tips? > > Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) > If you have any program that converts string values to numbers, > you'll want to steer clear of the CInt function and use CDbl > instead. The problem with CInt is that it only accepts numbers > up to 32767. You might say today, "My number will never get that > large." However, later on down the line, it might. > Unfortunately, by that time, your code may be riddled with > hundreds of CInt time bombs waiting to blow up, displaying the > dreaded Overflow error. Using the CDbl function is no different > from using CInt. The syntax is: > CDBl(numericstring) > CDbl returns the same value as CInt and it accepts num-bers up > to 1.7976931348623158E+308. > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Tue May 4 12:14:08 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:14:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c431fb$36681680$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Check the archives as this thread has been covered many times in the past. Your only choices are not to apply the Operating System patch that restricts the security (not highly recommended), use CDO code to process your emails, or purchase a 3rd party product like Redemption. Here are a couple of useful links: Programming Microsoft Outlook and CDO http://www.microeye.com/resources/res_outlkb.htm Slipstick Outlook and Exhange Solution Center http://www.slipstick.com Redemption http://www.dimastr.com/redemption/ Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:52 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. Thanks Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 12:18:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:18:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> Message-ID: uh-oh, here we go again. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Collins Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:52 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. Thanks Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 12:09:00 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:09:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip References: <409729D4.111.174488@localhost> Message-ID: <4097CE2C.9010601@shaw.ca> Maybe they just dropped a clanger? Bryan Carbonnell wrote: >On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > >>Hi all >> >>Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". >> >>Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? >>Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? >> >> >> >>Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) >> >> > > > > > >> >> >> > >I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least >CLng. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 12:28:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:28:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1140045602.20040504192817@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Ahh, but also subtraction (which includes addition of mixed positives and negatives) certainly isn't safe. Try: ? 10.1 - 10.0 Should return 0.1 ... You must use CCur() or CDec() for this. /gustav > No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they > don't use multiplication or division. Not true. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi Charlotte > Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. > And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? > /gustav >> Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess >> they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people >> simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They >> seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to >> adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue May 4 12:41:02 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:41:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: <4097CE2C.9010601@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000501c431fe$fbf86230$6401a8c0@COA3> There goes Marty making me go to the Canada/UK/Australia to American slang conversion dictionary again LOL Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Maybe they just dropped a clanger? Bryan Carbonnell wrote: >On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > >>Hi all >> >>Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". >> >>Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? >>Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? >> >> >> >>Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) >> >> > > > > > >> >> >> > >I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least >CLng. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 12:55:28 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:55:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip References: <000501c431fe$fbf86230$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <4097D910.7050905@shaw.ca> Better add this one Doric Scots dictionary in case I start blethering. http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/ Here Ive been festent up in a black weskit made naar han twenty ear syne, an deggit! its shrunken. Developer wrote: >There goes Marty making me go to the Canada/UK/Australia to American >slang conversion dictionary again LOL > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:09 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > > >Maybe they just dropped a clanger? > >Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > > > >>On 4 May 2004 at 9:22, Gustav Brock wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>Hi all >>> >>>Just noticed this "untip" from Element K Journals". >>> >>>Comments should not be necessary, but where did Val() and CLng() go? >>>Why not let a programmer proofread such tips? >>> >>> >>> >>>Beware of CInt; use CDbl instead (VB 6.0) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that they missed at least >>CLng. >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 13:03:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:03:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001c431fb$36681680$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <20040504180320.JFLZ17779.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Or upgrade to Outlook 2003. :) Susan H. Check the archives as this thread has been covered many times in the past. Your only choices are not to apply the Operating System patch that restricts the security (not highly recommended), use CDO code to process your emails, or purchase a 3rd party product like Redemption. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 4 13:01:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:01:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) References: <003301c431ef$bd7f5540$408227a2@rr.com.midsouth.rr.com> Message-ID: <4097DA75.5080005@shaw.ca> Or real quick and dirty Express ClickYes is a tiny program that sits in the taskbar and clicks the Yes button for Outlook security http://www.express-soft.com/mailmate/clickyes.html However if you are really using Outlook Express there is a description on above site to set the appropriate option in the Outlook's Express settings. To turn the prompts off, click Options on the menu, switch to the Security tab, and clear the Warn me when other applications try to send mail as me checkbox. Michael Collins wrote: >I am developing an application using Access97 and Outlook Express that pulls an email address out of a table and using sendobject method sends an email. The problem is that the security of outlook stops me with a warning msg that and external programs is attempting to send a msg. Is there any way around getting the warning msg. > > >Thanks > > > >Michael > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 13:25:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:25:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Message-ID: I know that. Did I misunderstand your question? No mathematical operation is safe from floating point creep that I know of. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip Hi Charlotte Ahh, but also subtraction (which includes addition of mixed positives and negatives) certainly isn't safe. Try: ? 10.1 - 10.0 Should return 0.1 ... You must use CCur() or CDec() for this. /gustav > No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they > don't use multiplication or division. Not true. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip > Hi Charlotte > Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. > And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? > /gustav >> Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess >> they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people >> simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They >> seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to >> adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 13:25:19 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:25:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: I must have missed hearing about this...are the security settings more user configurable in O2K3? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] (no subject) Or upgrade to Outlook 2003. :) Susan H. Check the archives as this thread has been covered many times in the past. Your only choices are not to apply the Operating System patch that restricts the security (not highly recommended), use CDO code to process your emails, or purchase a 3rd party product like Redemption. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 4 13:46:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:46:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19644736487.20040504204628@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte > I know that. I know. > Did I misunderstand your question? You wrote: " .. They seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to adding or subtracting." > No mathematical operation is safe from floating point creep that I > know of. I think that's the way to put it. /gustav > Ahh, but also subtraction (which includes addition of mixed positives > and negatives) certainly isn't safe. Try: > ? 10.1 - 10.0 > Should return 0.1 ... > You must use CCur() or CDec() for this. > /gustav >> No, I was implying that many people think they're safe as long as they >> don't use multiplication or division. Not true. >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Early Friday Untip >> Hi Charlotte >> Oh, my comments were not meant to be inclusive .. >> And you mean "adding and not subtracting", right? >> /gustav >>> Well Val() is officially included for backward compatibility (I guess >>> they never mentioned that to the VB team ), and a lot of people >>> simply don't understand the issues of floating point errors. They >>> seem to be under the impressions that you're safe if you stick to >>> adding or subtracting. If you want to add another omission, CCur(). From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 13:56:39 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:56:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040504185637.SJWM15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Outlook 2003 considers anything created in a VBA module as a trusted source, so the prompts are automatically inhibited. Susan H. I must have missed hearing about this...are the security settings more user configurable in O2K3? From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue May 4 14:13:48 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:13:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8A9@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Susan, Are you referring to a VBA module within Outlook? Because I've heard the opposite with regard to Outlook being automated from external code. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] (no subject) Outlook 2003 considers anything created in a VBA module as a trusted source, so the prompts are automatically inhibited. Susan H. I must have missed hearing about this...are the security settings more user configurable in O2K3? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 14:27:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:27:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8A9@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040504192739.KIWM16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Any COM add-in you install in Outlook 2003 is automatically trusted. That means, Outlook 2003 bypasses all the security prompts. It's my understanding that any code written in Outlook's VBA editor is trusted -- so I probably should've been more specific on that point, but the add-in business can get you around that sometimes. It's a start. Also, you can update the registry and upgrade the danger status of file types by listing their extensions -- so you can more easily control what you can download now. Again, not the complete fix we'd like, but a good start. What I hate is backing up the BCM -- a new add-in. That's a circus. Well, backing it up isn't the problem -- reverting to the back up is a real pia. Susan H. Susan, Are you referring to a VBA module within Outlook? Because I've heard the opposite with regard to Outlook being automated from external code. From GregSmith at starband.net Tue May 4 14:40:43 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:40:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access db crash In-Reply-To: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> References: <1043694973.20040504092226@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1202.216.43.21.235.1083699643.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue May 4 14:45:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:45:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <16773332.1083699309101.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c43210$6b2f6430$de1811d8@danwaters> Susan, Can this - or does this - help with sending emails from any other application where the email is generated from VBA? TIA, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] (no subject) Any COM add-in you install in Outlook 2003 is automatically trusted. That means, Outlook 2003 bypasses all the security prompts. It's my understanding that any code written in Outlook's VBA editor is trusted -- so I probably should've been more specific on that point, but the add-in business can get you around that sometimes. It's a start. Also, you can update the registry and upgrade the danger status of file types by listing their extensions -- so you can more easily control what you can download now. Again, not the complete fix we'd like, but a good start. What I hate is backing up the BCM -- a new add-in. That's a circus. Well, backing it up isn't the problem -- reverting to the back up is a real pia. Susan H. Susan, Are you referring to a VBA module within Outlook? Because I've heard the opposite with regard to Outlook being automated from external code. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 4 14:54:56 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:54:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 15:03:12 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:03:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000001c43210$6b2f6430$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <20040504200310.UOPP15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Unfortunately, probalby not -- as long as the commands must originate from another application, you're probably stuck. However, IF you can find a way to convert that to an Outlook add-in, you could then ... I think... Initate the call to the add-in from another application -- couldn't you? I may be grasping at straws. Susan H. Susan, Can this - or does this - help with sending emails from any other application where the email is generated from VBA? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 15:14:19 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:14:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 15:23:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:23:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue May 4 15:26:25 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:26:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: You could use the API Private Declare Function CreateDirectoryEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "CreateDirectoryExA" (ByVal lpTemplateDirectory As String, ByVal lpNewDirectory As String, lpSecurityAttributes As Any) As Long "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] FS object accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/04/2004 03:23 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 15:29:41 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:29:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 15:42:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:42:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 15:48:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:48:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: Yikes! ...but your error handler works;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 15:51:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:51:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Message-ID: The ADO version is the one installed with Jet SP-8 and with Office 2003. Do you happen to have 2003 on one of your own machines? We've had a few odd surprises when an AXP installer was built on a machine with O2003 installed, even though we use Wise and SageKey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 4 15:51:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 06:51:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <00c801c431e4$89baed10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40988EFA.10048.D3DA6@localhost> On 4 May 2004 at 7:31, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Erwin: > > What other short date formats might you expect to see besides mm/dd/yy and > dd/mm/yy? > Apparently Sweden uses a lot of formats. During a similar discussions, a swedish poster in one of the PowerBasic forums once posted this: "In some 15 different local orders, I find the following variations: 22/9 -99 (d/M -yy) 3/12 1999 (d/M yyyy) 010399 (ddMMyy) 000201 (yyMMdd) 19991104 (yyyyMMdd)" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 15:57:51 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:57:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: How about: Set SubFolders = MainFolder.SubFolders Set SubFolder = SubFolders.Add("NewSubFolder") Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Yikes! ...but your error handler works;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I just happened to do that since I'm currently working on that deployment issue:) You might recognize the error handler look & feel:) Mark '.Comments : Creates folder. '.Parameters: Full path. '.Sets : N/A '.Returns : True or False '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/4/2004 2:50:42 PM Function fCreateFolder(strFolder) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_fCreateFolder Dim oFSO As FileSystemObject Dim oFldr As Folder Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set oFldr = oFSO.CreateFolder(strFolder) fCreateFolder = True Exit_fCreateFolder: On Error Resume Next If Not (oFldr Is Nothing) Then Set oFldr = Nothing If Not (oFSO Is Nothing) Then Set oFSO = Nothing Exit Function Err_fCreateFolder: MsgBox Err.Description, , _ "Error in Function modClientInstall.fCreateFolder" Resume Exit_fCreateFolder Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 4 16:00:20 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 23:00:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD843@stekelbes.ithelps.local> To me it's not intelligent, because it uses different rules for same thing... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting Hi Erwin > There is another oddity I Access when using dates... > I believe its a bug since Access 2K. > Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with > #[Date]# ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 > january 2004 ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing > 30 december > 2004 > ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 > december 2004 Bizare he? > Never trust Access with dates..... > I supose this bug is only in the international versions... It's not a bug, it's CDate() being intelligent. First attempt is to check if the expression conforms to a US date. If that fails, it tries an international (ISO) format or your local settings, then another etc. - that's why it also understands #2004/01/12#. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue May 4 16:06:11 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:06:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Accessdbcrash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c4321b$a0a748c0$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Hello Charlotte, Your comment re having problems with your installer is disturbing. Do you use the runtime files provided by Sagekey? Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Accessdbcrash The ADO version is the one installed with Jet SP-8 and with Office 2003. Do you happen to have 2003 on one of your own machines? We've had a few odd surprises when an AXP installer was built on a machine with O2003 installed, even though we use Wise and SageKey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Tue May 4 16:16:35 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:16:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF086E6A2A@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> John, According to Gunther Born in "Microsoft Windows Script Host 2.0 Developers Guide" " . . . you must be sure that the path (passed to the FSO's CreateFolder method) is valid . . . " So, it would appear that you'll need to parse and build as you go. Hope this helps. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 16:25:44 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:25:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Our Cover Girl References: <000001c43210$6b2f6430$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <000301c4321e$5c0d9c20$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...just got my Access/VB/SQL copy ...our very own Susan Harkins has the cover story ...very nicely done too :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 4 16:28:51 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:28:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Our Cover Girl In-Reply-To: <000301c4321e$5c0d9c20$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040504212849.OEHY24544.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> thank you. :) It was a nice coincidence that we ended up discussing the subject shortly after I wrote that -- I knew more about the subject than I would have otherwise. :) Susan H. ...just got my Access/VB/SQL copy ...our very own Susan Harkins has the cover story ...very nicely done too :) From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 16:52:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:52:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makesAccessdbcrash Message-ID: Yes we do. However, we had inadvertently let an internal installer go with Office Web Components (or whatever the reference is) included, since Access XP includes that by default when you build a new database. It isn't needed and we took it out, but it caused a problem when the setup was created on a machine that also has O2003 installed (though not Access 2003) and the installation was run on a machine with 2002 installed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy [mailto:dw-murphy at cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makesAccessdbcrash Hello Charlotte, Your comment re having problems with your installer is disturbing. Do you use the runtime files provided by Sagekey? Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Accessdbcrash The ADO version is the one installed with Jet SP-8 and with Office 2003. Do you happen to have 2003 on one of your own machines? We've had a few odd surprises when an AXP installer was built on a machine with O2003 installed, even though we use Wise and SageKey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Msado15.dll and Sqloledb.dll overwritten makes Access dbcrash Hi everyone! I have an odd situation with a client who has an Access XP database FE with a linked SQL BE, running on WinXP, SP1. I didn't write the Access App, so I'm coming into this cold. We installed an imaging application (File Magic, network version, 5 user license) which uses MSDE. Before install File Magic, his Access DB was working just fine. The two files and versions are: FileName Ver Before Ver After Msado15.dll 2.71.9030.0 2.80.1022.0 Sqloledb.dll 2000.81.9042.0 2000.85.1022.0 After installing File Magic, it works, but the Access DB links to the SQL BE are hosed. Obviously File Magic is installing newer versions of these files over the older ones, but what the heck could cause it to hose up the Access db's links? If you keep a copy of the older files, then, after installing File Magic but before rebooting, copy the older ones OVER the newer ones, then reboot...BOTH apps work just fine. Has anyone ever seen this before? Or am I out there on the edge again....bleeding profusely once more? Btw, the File Magic techs haven't heard of anything like this before. If it wasn't a result of a problem INSIDE File Magic, they have no clue. Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.Net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Tue May 4 16:57:17 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:57:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092EA@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> DO NOT REPLY TO THEM!!!!! If you do, you will get emails every three days telling you about jobs all over the country that have little or nothing to do with programming. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 17:23:09 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:23:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: A quick search notices that they ended up on David Horowitz' Fight Back website. The actions of these companies prove that their bottom line seems to be more important than good customer care. They have been elected to fightback.com's "Customer Dis-Service Hall of Shame!" http://www.fightback.com/byteback/writebackresults/writebackresults.cfm *** We add the ProSavvy to the Consumer Dis-Service Hall of Shame: Mr. John Hardy, Vice President ProSavvy 9510 Meridian Blvd. #200 Englewood, CO 80112 *** Mark -----Original Message----- From: Julie Reardon-Taylor [mailto:prosoft6 at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 4 17:25:57 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:25:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: <39350-2200452422255733@christopherhawkins.com> Here's the situation: A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet 8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it has no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be any other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default printer. I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly business app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. -Christopher- From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 4 17:31:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:31:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: Christopher, Please keep me informed of your progress regarding this matter. I believe we are scheduled to receive that model within the next 30-60 days. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:26 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Here's the situation: A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet 8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it has no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be any other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default printer. I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly business app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 4 17:35:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: You would not *believe* the oddities with Access and new printers. If the 8000 is state of the art, it's possible that A2003 just can't talk to it because it doesn't yet know how. Can you configure the printer to use a different driver or to masquerade as an earlier model? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:26 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Here's the situation: A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet 8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it has no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be any other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default printer. I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly business app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue May 4 17:38:21 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:38:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy In-Reply-To: <16514865.1083708104991.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c43228$816ea810$de1811d8@danwaters> Jeff - Is it something like this? Private Sub AnnoyProspects() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgState as String Dim stgPosition as String Dim stg as String Dim rst as DAO.Recordset Dim stgOverHypedMessage as String stgState = Call GetRandomState stgPosition = Call GetAnyPosition(stgState) stgOverHypedMessage = Call GetOverHypedMessage(stgPosition) stg = "SELECT Person FROM tblProspectList" _ & " WHERE DateLastAnnoyed <= (Date() - 3)" Set rst = DBEngine(0)(0).OpenRecordset(stg, dbOpenSnapshot) If rst.EOF = False Then Docmd.SendObject , , , rst!Person, , , _ "Your Perfect New Position!", stgOverHypedMessage, False End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Sub EH: Call GlobalErrorHandler End Sub Having Fun, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy DO NOT REPLY TO THEM!!!!! If you do, you will get emails every three days telling you about jobs all over the country that have little or nothing to do with programming. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 4 18:48:00 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:48:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: <198400-2200452423480471@christopherhawkins.com> All, I got it! It turns out that only connecting to the printer over the network was insufficient - the network guy said something about that model HP using virtual ports or some such. I didnt really understand what he was saying. So here is what I did - 1) I added a printer locally 2) Selected the HP 8000 from the list 3) Assigned it a new port with the same address as the port of the network-connected printer. This made sure that the drivers were installed on the local machine. 4) Set the new printer as the default. So now the local machine has drivers for that printer, and I think (but am not sure) that it is now spooling its own print jobs rather than letting the server do it. Not being a crack hardware/network guy, I can't tell you why this is working - but it is working. If anyone has insight as to why this worked, please feel free to expound. I'm pretty curious. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:18 -0700 >You would not *believe* the oddities with Access and new printers. >If >the 8000 is state of the art, it's possible that A2003 just can't >talk >to it because it doesn't yet know how. Can you configure the >printer to >use a different driver or to masquerade as an earlier model? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:26 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? > > >Here's the situation: > >A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet >8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it >has >no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be >any >other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default >printer. > >I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly >business >app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the >Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. > >Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. > >-Christopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 4 19:08:02 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:08:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 4 19:18:52 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:18:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: Thank you to everyone who responded. I performed a google search as well and was astonished at what I saw on several sites. Their fees seem very steep. AHHHHH the lure of having someone just bring the work to me!!! Too good to be true. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 4 19:24:00 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:24:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: Have you tried installing a different driver? When problems like that pop-up, there are usually alternate drivers that can be used. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Tue May 4 19:36:39 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:36:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF086E6B6A@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> J?rgen, >> Have I said before I hate the FS object... Same here. But is there another (simpler) way to get specifics on a file, i.e. create date, last modified date, last access date, file size? Don From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 19:49:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:49:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Have I said before I hate the FS object... No doubt. Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? Why not hate ... Never mind. It's just a tool. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FS object Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue May 4 19:52:05 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:52:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE596@TAPPEEXCH01> >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? >Why not hate ... This coming from the guy who refuses to use the Redemption DLL because it's a COM object. Never a dull moment around here! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object >Have I said before I hate the FS object... No doubt. Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? Why not hate ... Never mind. It's just a tool. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FS object Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 19:58:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:58:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF086E6A2A@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: Yea, so it seems. I have developed code to do that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object John, According to Gunther Born in "Microsoft Windows Script Host 2.0 Developers Guide" " . . . you must be sure that the path (passed to the FSO's CreateFolder method) is valid . . . " So, it would appear that you'll need to parse and build as you go. Hope this helps. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] FS object Does anyone know if the file scripting object has the ability to just create a directory path directly? If I try to create (for example) C:\Test\Backup and c:\test exists, then it creates Backup underneath it. However if Test doesn't exist it just errors. I am going to have to build a function to parse the directories and build them up one at a time if the FS object can't directly do this. It seems like a natural but I can't find it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Tue May 4 19:57:56 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:57:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092EB@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> EXACTLY! Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Jeff - Is it something like this? Private Sub AnnoyProspects() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgState as String Dim stgPosition as String Dim stg as String Dim rst as DAO.Recordset Dim stgOverHypedMessage as String stgState = Call GetRandomState stgPosition = Call GetAnyPosition(stgState) stgOverHypedMessage = Call GetOverHypedMessage(stgPosition) stg = "SELECT Person FROM tblProspectList" _ & " WHERE DateLastAnnoyed <= (Date() - 3)" Set rst = DBEngine(0)(0).OpenRecordset(stg, dbOpenSnapshot) If rst.EOF = False Then Docmd.SendObject , , , rst!Person, , , _ "Your Perfect New Position!", stgOverHypedMessage, False End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Sub EH: Call GlobalErrorHandler End Sub Having Fun, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy DO NOT REPLY TO THEM!!!!! If you do, you will get emails every three days telling you about jobs all over the country that have little or nothing to do with programming. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy I googled it and it didn't look good! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:55 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Prosavvy Prosavvy has aggressively been targeting me for membership. Anyone had any dealings with this company or know anyone who has? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 20:01:24 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:01:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about: Function FSCreateFolderPath(strPath As String) On Error GoTo Err_FSCreateFolderPath Dim col As Collection Dim intPos As Integer Dim strToken As String Dim strTempPath As String Set col = New Collection strTempPath = strPath intPos = InStr(strTempPath, "\") While intPos > 0 strToken = Left$(strTempPath, intPos) strTempPath = Right$(strTempPath, Len(strTempPath) - intPos) intPos = InStr(strTempPath, "\") col.Add strToken, strToken Wend strTempPath = "" While col.Count > 0 strTempPath = strTempPath & col(1) col.Remove (1) fs.CreateFolder strTempPath Wend Exit_FSCreateFolderPath: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_FSCreateFolderPath: Select Case Err Case 70 'Permission denied (trying to create a drive letter) Resume Next Case 58 'Dir already exists Resume Next Case Else MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function basTest.FSCreateFolderPath" Resume Exit_FSCreateFolderPath End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function This is a method of a class wrapper with the FS object declared in the class header. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object How about: Set SubFolders = MainFolder.SubFolders Set SubFolder = SubFolders.Add("NewSubFolder") Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Yikes! ...but your error handler works;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object yes, but have you tried directly creating a multi-level path? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 20:03:56 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:03:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE596@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: There is a big difference. The file system object comes with Windows (and internet explorer, and other things). Redemption I have to buy and install. nuff said. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? >Why not hate ... This coming from the guy who refuses to use the Redemption DLL because it's a COM object. Never a dull moment around here! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object >Have I said before I hate the FS object... No doubt. Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object model? Why not hate ... Never mind. It's just a tool. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FS object Have I said before I hate the FS object... Public Function fnCreateBasePath(strCreatePath As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim strPath As String Dim lngPosition As Long strCreatePath = Trim(strCreatePath) If Right$(strCreatePath, 1) <> "\" Then strCreatePath = strCreatePath & "\" lngPosition = 2 Do Until lngPosition = 1 lngPosition = InStr(lngPosition + 1, strCreatePath, "\") If lngPosition > 0 Then strPath = Left$(strCreatePath, lngPosition - 1) If Not Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) > 0 Then MkDir strPth End If lngPosition = lngPosition + 1 Loop fnCreateBasePath = Len(Dir(strPath, vbDirectory)) ExitRoutine: On Error Resume Next Exit Function ErrorHandler: With Err Select Case .Number Case Else MsgBox .Number & vbCrLf & .Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & _ " Error in creating Folder: '" & strCreatePath & "'", _ vbInformation, "Error - fnCreateBasePath" End Select End With 'Resume 0 Resume ExitRoutine End Function Call it like so: fncreatebasepath("C:\min\max\boo") I culled this from some other work that I had done that had a guaranteed fixed path so I was able to initialize lngposition at 22. It formerly worked with UNC and mappings but this is just a quick post without testing because, as I said, I always had a fixed starting path. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 20:56:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:56:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 4 21:33:52 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:33:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 4 22:02:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 23:02:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 5 02:56:09 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! Message-ID: <20040505075609.52473.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly I can create other files on the directory File permission aren't messed with I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? Que pasa? What could be wrong? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 5 02:05:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:05:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD843@stekelbes.ithelps.local> References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD843@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <1131680456.20040505090516@cactus.dk> Hi Erwin > To me it's not intelligent, because it uses different rules for same > thing... Well, no and yes, its purpose is to convert "something" to a date value if at all possible. Of course, different rules must be used for this. Also, the expression can be of any type other that a string. What you request is something like CDateStr(expression, [requested format]) That would be nice. /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:02 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Determining Regional Date Setting > Hi Erwin >> There is another oddity I Access when using dates... >> I believe its a bug since Access 2K. >> Try this (you all know that u can simulate a american date with >> #[Date]# ? cdate(#1/12/2004#)-1 this results in 11/01/2004 beeing 1 >> january 2004 ? cdate(#31/12/2004#)-1 this results in 30/12/2004 beeing >> 30 december >> 2004 >> ? cdate(#12/31/2004#)-1 this also results in 30/12/2004 beeing 30 >> december 2004 Bizare he? >> Never trust Access with dates..... >> I supose this bug is only in the international versions... > It's not a bug, it's CDate() being intelligent. First attempt is to > check if the expression conforms to a US date. If that fails, it tries > an international (ISO) format or your local settings, then another etc. > - that's why it also understands #2004/01/12#. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 5 03:57:54 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 01:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! In-Reply-To: <20040505075609.52473.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040505085754.78754.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Good old "Compact and Repair"...still strange. Sander S D wrote: Hi group, i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly I can create other files on the directory File permission aren't messed with I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? Que pasa? What could be wrong? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 06:14:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:14:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! In-Reply-To: <20040505085754.78754.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are you saying Compact and Repair fixed the problem? Including the problem with C2DbShowUsers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! Good old "Compact and Repair"...still strange. Sander S D wrote: Hi group, i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly I can create other files on the directory File permission aren't messed with I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? Que pasa? What could be wrong? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed May 5 06:53:37 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:53:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086DE01@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4C5@ADGSERVER> I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 07:41:03 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:41:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4C5@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed May 5 07:56:01 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:56:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086DE8D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4C6@ADGSERVER> I have used the FSO before with good results. I think it is kind of like you insinuated, use the proper tool for the job. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 5 09:17:24 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:17:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: I used file system functionality to generate lists of files on laptop and server. Sine the application named files with a standard name and an incrementing suffix in the name and because one of the applications changed the file last modified stamp even if only opened for viewing and because the data was stored in fields such that you could not tell whether a file had been modified by any combination of time stamp and size, the synchronization routine was primarily based on file name. A difference in size was a guarantee of a different file version between laptop and server. The system generated the names of over 4 gigabytes of active files on the server and 4 gigabytes of files on the laptop everytime a user shut down, compared the lists and copied files missing on one or the other to where it was missing. This happened on demand and automatically everytime a laptop user shut down the application. Needless to say I searched for the quickest solution since I had 6 laptop users who would be working out of the office and back daily, and often several times a day. The FSO was never an option because the scripting runtime was not available and a version of the code I developed from the api examples in the VBA companion book to the 97 Developer's Handbook ran about 20% slower. That system generated the file structure and synchronized all template files and determined the path of every file of every type required by emulating the database structure in the file system. A table/field name path beneath the location of the BE was determined and a hierarchical interpretation of the relational database generated the structure in the file system and automatically saved files in locations generated on the fly. In addition, file names were never stored in a table but always used to populate lists generated on the fly using the Dir function. I also provided sorting by name/date/size by clicking on a 'header' and the system continues to work very well. Because this was such a pervasive part of the application, I invested considerable research and effort into fine tuning it and I am very surprised to hear anyone say that the api versions are faster. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bobby Heid" > >I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the >FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and >information about the files off of a large hard drive. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a > >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "John W. Colby" > > > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > > > >No doubt. > > > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows > >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the > >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > > > >Never mind. > > > >It's just a tool. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 5 09:48:19 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:48:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE597@TAPPEEXCH01> John, Deep cleansing breaths... We don't want to anyone to be the victim of code rage ;-) Everyone has their hot buttons. Jurgen is obsessed with performance, you are inclined towards rapid development, and I am driven by reliability i.e. making my app as bulletproof as possible. Many unfortunate experiences and frustrated clients later, I made a personal policy of avoiding "built-in" ActiveX DLL's or OCX controls unless: a) They offered functionality that was not easily duplicated through coding. or b) I had a reasonable level of control of the system environment (i.e. know exactly what versions of Windows/Office/IE were installed and didn't have to contend with an overzealous sysadmin). My turning point? I used to use the MS Common Dialog OCX control. Then one day I had a frantic phone call from a customer hundreds of miles away. All of a sudden my app stopped working on her machine. After a lot of Q&A and research, I found that it was due to IE 5 installing a new version of mscomctl.ocx, that was not backwards compatible. Then I found that all of this (free) wasted tech support time was wholly unnecessary, since comdlg32 was just a wrapper around a basic set of API calls. A little research and about an hour tweaking a bas module I downloaded, and I had a module that I just drop into all my projects. Poof! No more ocx hassles. Our office is far from the "concentration camp" that Jurgen worked in, but they are still hyper-sensitive about security. What he stated about sysadmins shutting off its functionality is a valid point. It appears that you don't have these constraints with any of your clients. For example, you were able to convince your clients to not install the current Office service pack, to get around the Outlook email security dialog. I don't dictate the system security policies here. And there is no way in h*ll that I'm taking the heat for overriding their security decisions. Part of my QA process is ensuring that my app won't crap out with an OS upgrade or service pack. Now, back to the FSO. I have never used it in any of my production apps. Not because it is evil, but because I don't find its functionality to be worth the potential deployment pitfalls. Most of the time, my file system needs consist of copying files, deleting files, creating directories and listing directory contents. All of these are already built into VBA (FileCopy, Kill, MkDir, Dir). The remaining (which I don't normally need/use) can be implemented through API calls. Why would I ship my code with a reference to another library when it's already built in? Just doesn't make sense to me. BTW, a recent project involved iterating through a directory of > 5000 textfiles. Dir wouldn't cut it in this case, so I did a little research and ran across this link: Performance Comparison - FSO vs. API http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/fsoapicompare.htm Used it, and it works like a champ! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 5 09:50:18 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:50:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: VBA was fastest, API 2nd and FSO was, as you say, orders of magnitude slower. I never did a thorough comparison of the FSO because not one of the 5 locations at which I needed directory/file management tools had the scripting runtime enabled. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bobby Heid" > >I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the >FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and >information about the files off of a large hard drive. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a > >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 09:58:03 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:58:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great piece of writing. A bit different from "did I say I hate the FSO". It doesn't explain why you would hate the FSO, but it does explain why you would not use it in this situation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I used file system functionality to generate lists of files on laptop and server. Sine the application named files with a standard name and an incrementing suffix in the name and because one of the applications changed the file last modified stamp even if only opened for viewing and because the data was stored in fields such that you could not tell whether a file had been modified by any combination of time stamp and size, the synchronization routine was primarily based on file name. A difference in size was a guarantee of a different file version between laptop and server. The system generated the names of over 4 gigabytes of active files on the server and 4 gigabytes of files on the laptop everytime a user shut down, compared the lists and copied files missing on one or the other to where it was missing. This happened on demand and automatically everytime a laptop user shut down the application. Needless to say I searched for the quickest solution since I had 6 laptop users who would be working out of the office and back daily, and often several times a day. The FSO was never an option because the scripting runtime was not available and a version of the code I developed from the api examples in the VBA companion book to the 97 Developer's Handbook ran about 20% slower. That system generated the file structure and synchronized all template files and determined the path of every file of every type required by emulating the database structure in the file system. A table/field name path beneath the location of the BE was determined and a hierarchical interpretation of the relational database generated the structure in the file system and automatically saved files in locations generated on the fly. In addition, file names were never stored in a table but always used to populate lists generated on the fly using the Dir function. I also provided sorting by name/date/size by clicking on a 'header' and the system continues to work very well. Because this was such a pervasive part of the application, I invested considerable research and effort into fine tuning it and I am very surprised to hear anyone say that the api versions are faster. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bobby Heid" > >I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the >FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and >information about the files off of a large hard drive. > >Bobby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a > >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "John W. Colby" > > > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > > > >No doubt. > > > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows > >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the > >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > > > >Never mind. > > > >It's just a tool. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 10:55:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:55:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE597@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving AAAAAaaaoooooooooohhhhmmmmmm dealingwithidiotsiswhatidoforaliving Ahhhh... I feel better now. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object John, Deep cleansing breaths... We don't want to anyone to be the victim of code rage ;-) Everyone has their hot buttons. Jurgen is obsessed with performance, you are inclined towards rapid development, and I am driven by reliability i.e. making my app as bulletproof as possible. Many unfortunate experiences and frustrated clients later, I made a personal policy of avoiding "built-in" ActiveX DLL's or OCX controls unless: a) They offered functionality that was not easily duplicated through coding. or b) I had a reasonable level of control of the system environment (i.e. know exactly what versions of Windows/Office/IE were installed and didn't have to contend with an overzealous sysadmin). My turning point? I used to use the MS Common Dialog OCX control. Then one day I had a frantic phone call from a customer hundreds of miles away. All of a sudden my app stopped working on her machine. After a lot of Q&A and research, I found that it was due to IE 5 installing a new version of mscomctl.ocx, that was not backwards compatible. Then I found that all of this (free) wasted tech support time was wholly unnecessary, since comdlg32 was just a wrapper around a basic set of API calls. A little research and about an hour tweaking a bas module I downloaded, and I had a module that I just drop into all my projects. Poof! No more ocx hassles. Our office is far from the "concentration camp" that Jurgen worked in, but they are still hyper-sensitive about security. What he stated about sysadmins shutting off its functionality is a valid point. It appears that you don't have these constraints with any of your clients. For example, you were able to convince your clients to not install the current Office service pack, to get around the Outlook email security dialog. I don't dictate the system security policies here. And there is no way in h*ll that I'm taking the heat for overriding their security decisions. Part of my QA process is ensuring that my app won't crap out with an OS upgrade or service pack. Now, back to the FSO. I have never used it in any of my production apps. Not because it is evil, but because I don't find its functionality to be worth the potential deployment pitfalls. Most of the time, my file system needs consist of copying files, deleting files, creating directories and listing directory contents. All of these are already built into VBA (FileCopy, Kill, MkDir, Dir). The remaining (which I don't normally need/use) can be implemented through API calls. Why would I ship my code with a reference to another library when it's already built in? Just doesn't make sense to me. BTW, a recent project involved iterating through a directory of > 5000 textfiles. Dir wouldn't cut it in this case, so I did a little research and ran across this link: Performance Comparison - FSO vs. API http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/fsoapicompare.htm Used it, and it works like a champ! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From becklesd at tiscali.co.uk Wed May 5 11:33:27 2004 From: becklesd at tiscali.co.uk (David Beckles) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 16:33:27 +0000 Subject: Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <200405042100.i44L0SQ03973@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200405042100.i44L0SQ03973@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40991757.7070808@tiscali.co.uk> Why not use the API Private Declare Function MakeSureDirectoryPathExists Lib "imagehlp.dll" (ByVal lpPath As String) As Long which will create all the directories in the specified Path, beginning with the root, as required? (See http://www.allapi.net/) David From lmrazek at lcm-res.com Wed May 5 13:37:27 2004 From: lmrazek at lcm-res.com (Lawrence Mrazek) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:37:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP, Dbase Import error In-Reply-To: <001801c42b24$92e47800$036fa8c0@DellLaptop> Message-ID: <00a501c432d0$04702020$036fa8c0@DellLaptop> Hi All: I found the solution for this problem last week and thought I'd post it for the archives: 1. Install the latest service pack for Jet (see: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;829558). 2. Make a registry change (see below). 1. In the Registry Editor, browse to the following Registry key: \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Jet\4.0\Engines\Xbase 2. On the Right Pane, Click on Deleted. 3. Right-Click on the Deleted and click on Modify. 4. Change the entry from 0000 01 to 0000 00 4. Click OK. 5. Close the Registry and then open Access and test the import spec. Larry Mrazek LCM Research, Inc. ph. 314-432-5886 fx. 314-432-3304 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Mrazek Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 7:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access XP, Dbase Import error Hi: I'm getting the following error message when trying to import a dbase file. "The search key was not found in any record." This only happens in Access XP; for some reason, Access 97 imports the file without any problems. Has anyone encountered this error and if so, do you have any ideas on a workaround? Thanks in advance. Larry Mrazek LCM Research, Inc. ph. 314-432-5886 fx. 314-432-3304 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com Wed May 5 14:35:50 2004 From: Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com (Paul Baumann) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:35:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <5068EFF1BA3C1D4485B77CEC1CBBAAD5318814@farley.rtctech.com> I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. I am running out of hair to pull out. Paul Baumann From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 5 14:51:45 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:51:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K runtime issue Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8BB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I just installed an app that uses the A2K runtime on a WinXP machine. The application opens and runs fine but when you display a list of patients and double-click to show patient details the runtime opens an installation dialog that bombs out because the user does not have permissions to install applications. Does anyone know how to get rid of this? I don't believe there are any M$ office apps on this machine. I'm used to seeing this install dialog run at various times when I've opened certain apps on machines but never after an app was already open. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 5 14:56:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:56:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B80@main2.marlow.com> That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 5 14:56:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 12:56:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a single decimal place in the list. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. I am running out of hair to pull out. Paul Baumann -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 5 15:06:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:06:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B83@main2.marlow.com> If you really want one, let me know. I was working on a FSO like VBA class set. I got tied up in a nifty 'ability', which would let you 'monitor' files and folders, then I got tied up in other things, so that project dropped to the side. There are drawbacks to FSO, but in some cases, it's all you can use. One example of a drawback, you can't search with a wildcard (at least I didn't see anything like that when I needed it). So you have to look through an entire folder. Not a big deal, unless you are looking through 50,000 files. In ASP, you cannot use Dir, but you can use a VB .dll with Dir inside of it. I have seen system Admins disable FSO, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as some portray. (Dare I say this is sort of like the Lookup property of a field....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable it (and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue to me. >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human being? You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler because "that's all he needs". I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my customers, to most of the world. Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but the fact is it doesn't. The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything you would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, intellisense and the rest. I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... it seems the FSO wins my business. John (the backhoe operator) Colby. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows manipulation >of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the Excel object >model? >Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 5 15:14:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:14:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B84@main2.marlow.com> I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 5 17:00:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 18:00:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Woes Message-ID: >> Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE << J?rgen, I followed your advice somewhat. Currently I am thinking of NOT deleting the old FE if/when I do an update. My thinking is that with a single record change, I could instantly revert back to a previous version if, God forbid, the new FE crapped out. My question is this...how would you mitigate the version rollover problem? Group, any comments regarding the approach I've used? No comments included, but hopefully the naming convention suffices as an explanation of what is going on. (see code below...watch for line wrap) Mark *** BEGIN CODE *** Select Case fFolderExists(constInstallPath) Case True Select Case fFileExists(strCheckFileName) Case True If fShellExecute(strAction, strFileName, constInstallPath) Then 'Application.Quit End If Case False If fToggleFolderAttributes(constInstallPath) Then If fCopyFile(strSource, constInstallPath) Then MsgBox "Installation complete.", _ vbInformation, "Database Installation" If fShellExecute(strAction, strFileName, constInstallPath) Then 'Application.Quit End If End If End If End Select Case False If fCreateFolder(constInstallPath) Then If fToggleFolderAttributes(constInstallPath) Then If fCopyFile(strSource, constInstallPath) Then MsgBox "Installation complete.", _ vbInformation, "Database Installation" If fShellExecute(strAction, strFileName, constInstallPath) Then 'Application.Quit End If End If End If End If End Select *** END CODE *** -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment Woes In the bad old days my former employer had serious security restrictions that prevented running any number of different kinds of files including batch files. No user could create a shortcut so I had to make to with the one that was given to all users. Unfortunately I needed the shortcut to run each users own FE version of the file, especially as they moved to Terminal Server and I had Word automation issues with multiple users running the same FE. My solution was to convert the mde file that the shortcut pointed at to a file that determined the logged in user, used that information in the file path to that user's unique FE, check a custom database property named "UserVersion" which was a number from 0 to 9, compare that property with the master FE filename (which had a single digit suffix in the name). If the property matched the suffix, it launched the FE, otherwise it copied over the new version and launched it. Deployment required a few simple steps: 1. Make changes to a development file; 2. Update the version property of that file; 3. Set the file suffix; 4. Copy the file to the deployment location; 5. Delete the previous file. This approach only copies new versions when they are available. Using a file name suffix means that it is not necessary to actually open the file to check the version and it might have been more efficient to simply do the same for checking the existing FE rather than opening a database object to check the UserVersion property I created. I have used schemes based on checking the file creation date with an API call for the date but found that simply changing a version number from 0 to 9 and back to 0 kept it very simple. You can simply start the version number from 0 as the test is for version match and not highest version number. Now that I look at it years later, the only reason for using a user version property rather than a file name was because the users might change the file name extension manually and because users commonly copied the FE to laptops and this obviated the need to change the name of the coped file. Simply checking for a filename is significantly faster than opening a database and checking a version property and some day I may just change it to do that only. BTW, the system automatically creates the folders if they don't exist and copies over a file if it didn't exist as well. New users are autmatically accomodated. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 5 17:21:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 16:21:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: It's the script kiddy playground known as the scripting runtime library that I have commonly seen disabled. The FSO is simply one of the objects in that library and its loss is usually a byproduct of Admin wariness of the ease with which a novice can wreak havoc using the script capabilities. Dir supports use of the standard DOS wild cards. In your other post you mention the use of Kill. I place files in the recycle bin whenever possible because if a user deletes a file with an interface I've provided, I believe that he should at least get the protection that Windows itself affords. Of course if your code created a temporary file, there is no reason it shouldn't clean up after itself without using the recycle bin. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >If you really want one, let me know. I was working on a FSO like VBA class >set. I got tied up in a nifty 'ability', which would let you 'monitor' >files and folders, then I got tied up in other things, so that project >dropped to the side. > >There are drawbacks to FSO, but in some cases, it's all you can use. One >example of a drawback, you can't search with a wildcard (at least I didn't >see anything like that when I needed it). So you have to look through an >entire folder. Not a big deal, unless you are looking through 50,000 >files. >In ASP, you cannot use Dir, but you can use a VB .dll with Dir inside of >it. > >I have seen system Admins disable FSO, but I don't think it's as big of an >issue as some portray. (Dare I say this is sort of like the Lookup >property >of a field....LOL) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:02 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >And I have never found the FSO disabled. Not that an idiot can't disable >it >(and they would be an idiot to do so), just that it has never been an issue >to me. > > >I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA >was >faster. > >And I care because? And how much faster? Noticable to a human being? > >The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at >a >cost of performance. > >And I care because? And how much performance cost? Noticable to a human >being? > >You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >And I care because? How much less time? Noticable to a human being? > >As for developing my own FSO... we've been over this before. You (in the >past anyway) refused to use collections, insisting on rolling your own from >arrays. I love collections and would never dream of building my own. > >Sometimes you remind me of Steve Gibson. Still programming in assembler >because "that's all he needs". > >I have a job to do, and dimming a FSO and using it's properties is >infinitely faster than rolling my own FSO. The extra millisecond required >to get a pointer to the FSO is completely irrelevent, to me, to my >customers, to most of the world. > >Should the job call for a scalpel, then perhaps I would agree with you, but >the fact is it doesn't. > >The FSO is NOT a backhoe or a chainsaw, it is just a tool. It is a >reasonably well designed programming model to allow you to do everything >you >would ever need to do with the file system, complete with help files, >intellisense and the rest. > >I'll tell you what I will do though. If you ever contribute to the list >even one 10th the power of the FSO in a well designed class that I can drop >into my application and just use (as I can the FSO) then I will use your >class. Until such time... (and I'm not holding my breath waiting) uh.... >it >seems the FSO wins my business. > >John (the backhoe operator) Colby. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > >I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no >FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, >date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir >function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and >the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and >additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create >directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. > >I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't >already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need >to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between >a >public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com Tue May 4 18:47:49 2004 From: jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com (Jamie Kriegel) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:47:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh In-Reply-To: <20040504200310.UOPP15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <160E4AAFBF364898ACBF91391463CF.MAI@ws01.ipowerweb.com> I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie From mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com Wed May 5 17:59:42 2004 From: mike.tope at dsl.pipex.com (Mike Tope) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:59:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! References: <20040505075609.52473.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01c432f4$af4a2ee0$4ebaf13e@TopEnergy> Sander It seems to always be me who gets to say this. Some years back MS decided to limit the file extensions the developer was allowed to use. So if you've got nine different file types tough. You have to name each one .txt before you read or write it in Access. They complemented this decision by including an error message "Object is read-only" which gives absolutely no clue to what is going on. Does that hit the spot ? Regards Mike Tope ----- Original Message ----- From: "S D" To: "accessd" Sent: 05 May 2004 08:56 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 BE READ-ONLY ERRORS!! > Hi group, > > i've got an access 2k BE on a WIN NT 4 machine. Users receive error 3027 database or object is read-only (free translation from Dutch :-) ). > > I've checked the BE file => it's not read-obly > I can create other files on the directory > File permission aren't messed with > > I've tried using C2dbShowUsersA2k from John Colby to see who had logged in the db but this didn't work because I got error 3027!? > > > Que pasa? What could be wrong? > > TIA > > Sander > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 0419-0, 03/05/2004 > Tested on: 05/05/04 21:17:13 > avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 5 18:35:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 16:35:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed May 5 20:15:18 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:15:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Message-ID: <000001c43307$98d24040$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan From mastercafe at ctv.es Wed May 5 21:00:32 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 04:00:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c4330d$ea21eda0$0300a8c0@masterserver> We had the same problem with a Sharp TPV Printer (8cm thermal paper) and solved with an old driver from EPSON TM88. We don't know why but you can print with Word/Excel/PowerP but not with Access (2k or 2k2). When we change the driver its work fine. I recommend you search for any driver compatible to this printer but that run with Access. Good luck Juan Menendez ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: mi?rcoles, 05 de mayo de 2004 02:24 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Have you tried installing a different driver? When problems like that pop-up, there are usually alternate drivers that can be used. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 5 22:19:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:19:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B80@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: In 1977 I was building my first computer from board kits that I ordered from ads in the back of Popular Electronics. The standard of the time was the S100 backplane and the Z-80 or 6800 microprocessor. I went with a 1mhz z80 that could address a whopping 64kb or Ram, bought (2) 4 KByte static ram boards, then an 8 KByte board, and finally a 16 KByte board. By the time I got out of the Navy in June of 1978 I had the system with all but one of the 4K ram boards running for a grand total of 28 Kbytes of ram. The video board of the time had 80 x 32 (I think) character display with crude character graphics, and a serial port for loading a cassette tape. I hooked it up to my stereo cassette deck and used that to load the Zapple 16K basic (no relationship to Apple AFAIK) which took 3 minutes to load. Which of course left me with 8 Kbytes for my programs. Never really did much with it other than learning how to program in Basic. The Zapple basic wasn't very stable and crashed a lot. Of course it may very well have had something to do with only having 8K to work with and running out of memory. But I used that and tinkered until about 1982 when I worked for a graphics company called Megatek in the "Silicon valley of San Diego", Sorrento Valley. A group of 5 of us purchased the same SBC (Single Board Computer), a 16mhz 80186 based computer with 256 kbytes, 2 serial ports and a dial floppy interface. It ran CPM which was pretty much the OS of the day. It also had the option of soldering a second RAM chip over the top of the first chip, bending up one leg of the chip (RAS I believe) and doubling the ram which I promptly did so I had 500 kbytes. A tiny startup by the name of Borland had just published a radical language called Turbo Pascal which I purchased. At the time I was a bench technician fixing the graphics systems for Megatek, and one day I found 4 perfectly good engineering prototypes of their latest and greatest (but low end) graphics workstations - in the dumpster. Of course I promptly brought them back in to the building and was going to take them home. I was politely informed that they HAD to go in the trash (tax regulations apparently) but I persisted and finally got them to allow me to sign a paper saying I wouldn't resell them and that I could have them. Holy smoke batman! These were 1024 x 768 x 256 color vector graphic engineering workstations, with rotation, translation, scaling, hidden surface elimination, phong shading (all the hot graphics stuff of 1983). And I had 4 of them (I promptly gave three to my cohorts who had built the same SBC I had). A good friend who worked in Engineering writing the drivers for these machines came over to my house and got me started writing drivers for this thing to interface it to my SBC, and a year later I had written a complete driver set for every instruction that the workstation had, and had programmed a 3D sphere using squares (thinking back I don't know why I didn't use triangles), which I could rotate, scale up and down, translate (move back and forth in any plane) etc. Not terribly useful but by then I was a pretty competent programmer and soon after made the jump from fixing computers to programming them. Believe me, it was quite a step down when in 1986 I decided that CPM was dying and I had better get on the DOS bandwagon. I purchased a 12mhz 8088 PCXT which was several times slower than the SBC I was running, but it did have a 20mb hard disk and I could also buy 1mb memory expansion boards for extended memory. Plus I bought Lotus 123, DbII and Word Perfect (still programmed in Turbo Pascal though). Dog slow, but thoroughly modern! Yea, those were the good old days. And MAN were computers expensive!!! My first (and last, come to think of it) "store bought" was a 20mhz 80386 with 4 mbytes of RAM and a 40 mb disk for $3,500! That would be about 1988 I think. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Thu May 6 00:44:39 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:44:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel Message-ID: <002901c4332d$3cdb81e0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Hi Group, I am having a problem on certain reports using Office Links > Analyze it with Excel. Here is the error message I have received: ---------------- Microsoft Access can't retrieve the value of this property. The property isn't available from the view in which you're running the macro or Visual Basic code, or Microsoft Access encountered an error while retrieving the value of the property. To see the valid settings for this property, search the Help index for the name of the property. ---------------- I've searched Microsoft's knowledge base as well as the archives with no luck. I am able to use Office Links > Excel successfully on the report's underlying query. There is nothing unusual going on in these reports, a little sorting, a little grouping. The only calculated controls are totals in either the group or report footers. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 03:11:49 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:11:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Message-ID: <12311014.1083831109223.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

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Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From lists at theopg.com Thu May 6 04:30:40 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:30:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <12311014.1083831109223.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <001501c4334c$cc08b3f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 6 04:40:07 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:40:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <001501c4334c$cc08b3f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <001601c4334e$1defb190$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 6 04:40:24 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:40:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <001501c4334c$cc08b3f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <001701c4334e$281d96f0$8b8e6351@netboxxp> Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge Reporting Logon

Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System

Enter Username & Password Below

Username:

Password:

checklogin.asp code is below: <%@ LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Dim objConn Dim objRs Dim strSQL Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") objConn.ConnectionString="DRIVER={Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}; " & _ "DBQ=\\Development\C$\InetPub\Wwwroot\Genesis.mdb" objConn.Open Set objRs = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet") strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblUsers WHERE Username = '" & Request.Form("Username") & "'" objRs.Open strSQL, objConn If (objRs.EOF) Then Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Not Registered." Response.Write "" Response.End Else Response.Write "" Response.Write "User Found." Response.Write "" Response.End End If objRs.Close Set objRs = Nothing objConn.Close Set objConn = Nothing %> Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 04:43:03 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:43:03 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Message-ID: <9708125.1083836583482.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Had to reconfigure IIS first, managed to fumble my way round it....now it works if you use it from the server, but still tries to download when used from a workstation. Message date : May 06 2004, 10:39 AM >From : "MarkH" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System Enter Username & Password Below COLOR="BLACK">Username: SIZE="30"> COLOR="BLACK">Password: NAME="Password" SIZE="30"> TYPE=Submit NAME="Submit" VALUE="Submit"> checklogin.asp code is below: Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 06:49:41 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:49:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Message-ID: Christopher, I'm archiving this post nonetheless, but did your solution require local admin privileges? In my current network environment, the option to add a local printer is not available (grayed out). Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: cfoust at infostatsystems.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? All, I got it! It turns out that only connecting to the printer over the network was insufficient - the network guy said something about that model HP using virtual ports or some such. I didnt really understand what he was saying. So here is what I did - 1) I added a printer locally 2) Selected the HP 8000 from the list 3) Assigned it a new port with the same address as the port of the network-connected printer. This made sure that the drivers were installed on the local machine. 4) Set the new printer as the default. So now the local machine has drivers for that printer, and I think (but am not sure) that it is now spooling its own print jobs rather than letting the server do it. Not being a crack hardware/network guy, I can't tell you why this is working - but it is working. If anyone has insight as to why this worked, please feel free to expound. I'm pretty curious. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:35:18 -0700 >You would not *believe* the oddities with Access and new printers. >If >the 8000 is state of the art, it's possible that A2003 just can't >talk >to it because it doesn't yet know how. Can you configure the >printer to >use a different driver or to masquerade as an earlier model? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:26 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] A2K3 cannot recognize default printer? > > >Here's the situation: > >A client has discovered that from any workstation, if an HP LaserJet >8000 printer is set as the default printer, Access 20003 thinks it >has >no default printer installed. If we set the default printer to be >any >other printer, Access has no problem detecting it as the default >printer. > >I do not have a clue as to what to look for here - I'm a lowly >business >app developer, not a network tech. I've already been all over the >Microsoft Knowledgebase with no luck. > >Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm really stumped. > >-Christopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 07:24:45 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:24:45 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From j.frederick at att.net Thu May 6 07:32:02 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:32:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh In-Reply-To: <160E4AAFBF364898ACBF91391463CF.MAI@ws01.ipowerweb.com> Message-ID: I did what sounds like a similar thing(Access 2k). I was emulating a spreadsheet and assembling text for the cells that ran on for more than 22 vertical inches. I was also using the Line function in the Detail section Format event to draw the vertical lines. The lines stopped at 22", but a single detail line ran on without any apparent problem. I wasn't using a subreport, but I didn't run into a constraint on the total height of one detail line. There was also a 22" limit on the width. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jamie Kriegel Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From j.frederick at att.net Thu May 6 07:33:52 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:33:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: Make an append query to add a record with the number 900119 and then delete if you want. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu May 6 07:37:35 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 07:37:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: Hi Paul, see this; http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0005.htm basically you need to do an append query into your table with a record one number lower than you wish your autonumber first value to be. Then delete that record. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 >Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:24:45 +0200 (CEST) > >To all, >Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database >? >Thanks in advance. >Paul > >-- > >Whatever you Wanadoo: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > >This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 07:45:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:45:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 07:43:56 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:43:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383BF@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu May 6 07:46:47 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:46:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8C0@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 07:49:30 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:49:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: Group, The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any suggestions? If fShellExecute(strAction, _ strFileName, constInstallPath) Then Application.Quit End If If you need more details, just ask. Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 6 08:02:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:02:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10923225246.20040506150224@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Look up "A2K: Shell 'discoveries'" from 2004-04-22 in the archives for an example. /gustav > The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works > when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in > an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any > suggestions? > If fShellExecute(strAction, _ > strFileName, constInstallPath) Then > Application.Quit > End If From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 08:22:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:22:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE8C0@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber either, so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an issue so be careful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 08:21:58 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:21:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C2@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Issue? I thought that was feature. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber either, so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an issue so be careful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 08:38:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:38:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C2@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: Issue, feature, bug... Definitely an annoyance in many cases. Try archiving records, compacting the db and discovering that you can't get them back in because the PK has been reused for another record! A PK is supposed to be unique to that record and by the compact resetting the autonumber to the next currently available number, you just "reused" the PK. THAT is a no-no! Issue, feature, bug... Take your pick. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Issue? I thought that was feature. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber either, so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an issue so be careful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the autonumber. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next value (assuming an incrementing autonumber) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 08:40:43 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:40:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: Thank you. I'll test it out. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark Look up "A2K: Shell 'discoveries'" from 2004-04-22 in the archives for an example. /gustav > The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works > when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in > an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any > suggestions? > If fShellExecute(strAction, _ > strFileName, constInstallPath) Then > Application.Quit > End If -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 08:41:58 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:41:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 6 08:48:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:48:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Lambert, <> I was just about to mention that, but you beat me to it. The minute someone says they want to start at a specific value, you have to question why they are using an autonumber at all. Much better to assign your own keys if you need that. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu May 6 08:56:20 2004 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:56:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F82@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 09:00:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:00:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 6 09:12:46 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:12:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5A8@TAPPEEXCH01> I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. 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From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 6 09:24:23 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:24:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Message-ID: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 09:26:03 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:26:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A2@xlivmbx12.aig.com> According to Microsoft, when this was a 'feature', you had to delete all the records in a table and then compact the database. Doing so would reset the AutoNumber field to start at 1 the next time records were added. I've never heard of any other circumstance resetting them. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the > AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of > mine). > > Amen. > > OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger > than > the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber > back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I > figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > To all, > > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database > > ? > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > > > -- > > > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) > that > > is > > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > are > > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > > this > > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > > address > > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended > > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 09:34:52 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:34:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Thank you. I'll test it out. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark Look up "A2K: Shell 'discoveries'" from 2004-04-22 in the archives for an example. /gustav > The following code snippet works if stepped through manually. It also works > when attached to a macro that is manually run. It does NOT work when run in > an AutoExec macro. I'm guessing that it is a timing issue...is it? Any > suggestions? > If fShellExecute(strAction, _ > strFileName, constInstallPath) Then > Application.Quit > End If -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 10:01:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:01:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8A@main2.marlow.com> Wow, quite a history...after reading through that, I think the gist of it was, you're an old fart! LOL Just kidding JC. The first programming I got into was DOS Basic, and that was on an 8088. My Dad worked for IBM when I was growing up, so we always had an IBM PC (starting with that 5100) in the house. I remember when VGA came out, we thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread! LOL. However, the most impressive gadget (even to this day), was when my dad came home with a PCMCIA 10 meg solid state non-volatile RAM drive. He put it in his laptop, and turned it on. The computer beeped that it was ready, and his screen was still scrolling through DOS commands. I know it was DOS, but I wonder how fast Windows would load off of a 'RAM' disk. (Non-Volatile of course) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! In 1977 I was building my first computer from board kits that I ordered from ads in the back of Popular Electronics. The standard of the time was the S100 backplane and the Z-80 or 6800 microprocessor. I went with a 1mhz z80 that could address a whopping 64kb or Ram, bought (2) 4 KByte static ram boards, then an 8 KByte board, and finally a 16 KByte board. By the time I got out of the Navy in June of 1978 I had the system with all but one of the 4K ram boards running for a grand total of 28 Kbytes of ram. The video board of the time had 80 x 32 (I think) character display with crude character graphics, and a serial port for loading a cassette tape. I hooked it up to my stereo cassette deck and used that to load the Zapple 16K basic (no relationship to Apple AFAIK) which took 3 minutes to load. Which of course left me with 8 Kbytes for my programs. Never really did much with it other than learning how to program in Basic. The Zapple basic wasn't very stable and crashed a lot. Of course it may very well have had something to do with only having 8K to work with and running out of memory. But I used that and tinkered until about 1982 when I worked for a graphics company called Megatek in the "Silicon valley of San Diego", Sorrento Valley. A group of 5 of us purchased the same SBC (Single Board Computer), a 16mhz 80186 based computer with 256 kbytes, 2 serial ports and a dial floppy interface. It ran CPM which was pretty much the OS of the day. It also had the option of soldering a second RAM chip over the top of the first chip, bending up one leg of the chip (RAS I believe) and doubling the ram which I promptly did so I had 500 kbytes. A tiny startup by the name of Borland had just published a radical language called Turbo Pascal which I purchased. At the time I was a bench technician fixing the graphics systems for Megatek, and one day I found 4 perfectly good engineering prototypes of their latest and greatest (but low end) graphics workstations - in the dumpster. Of course I promptly brought them back in to the building and was going to take them home. I was politely informed that they HAD to go in the trash (tax regulations apparently) but I persisted and finally got them to allow me to sign a paper saying I wouldn't resell them and that I could have them. Holy smoke batman! These were 1024 x 768 x 256 color vector graphic engineering workstations, with rotation, translation, scaling, hidden surface elimination, phong shading (all the hot graphics stuff of 1983). And I had 4 of them (I promptly gave three to my cohorts who had built the same SBC I had). A good friend who worked in Engineering writing the drivers for these machines came over to my house and got me started writing drivers for this thing to interface it to my SBC, and a year later I had written a complete driver set for every instruction that the workstation had, and had programmed a 3D sphere using squares (thinking back I don't know why I didn't use triangles), which I could rotate, scale up and down, translate (move back and forth in any plane) etc. Not terribly useful but by then I was a pretty competent programmer and soon after made the jump from fixing computers to programming them. Believe me, it was quite a step down when in 1986 I decided that CPM was dying and I had better get on the DOS bandwagon. I purchased a 12mhz 8088 PCXT which was several times slower than the SBC I was running, but it did have a 20mb hard disk and I could also buy 1mb memory expansion boards for extended memory. Plus I bought Lotus 123, DbII and Word Perfect (still programmed in Turbo Pascal though). Dog slow, but thoroughly modern! Yea, those were the good old days. And MAN were computers expensive!!! My first (and last, come to think of it) "store bought" was a 20mhz 80386 with 4 mbytes of RAM and a 40 mb disk for $3,500! That would be about 1988 I think. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 10:07:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:07:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A2@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: In fact it reset the autonumber to "last used value +1", i.e. if there were numbers 1-100 still in the table, it would set to 101. Of course if you deleted them all then it would start with 1. Anyway you look at it though, this is a bug. An autonumber is most often used as a PK and a PK is supposed to be unique to the record it was created for. It matters not if that record was deleted, it still existed, was assigned a PK, and no other record should be assigned that PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 According to Microsoft, when this was a 'feature', you had to delete all the records in a table and then compact the database. Doing so would reset the AutoNumber field to start at 1 the next time records were added. I've never heard of any other circumstance resetting them. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the > AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of > mine). > > Amen. > > OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger > than > the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber > back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I > figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > To all, > > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database > > ? > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > > > -- > > > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) > that > > is > > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > are > > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > > this > > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > > address > > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended > > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > > > ************************************************************************** > > ** > > ******* > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 10:26:19 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:26:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >Wow, quite a history...after reading through that, I think the gist of it was, you're an old fart! LOL LOL, Yup! >I know it was DOS, but I wonder how fast Windows would load off of a 'RAM' disk. (Non-Volatile of course) On that PCXT I mentioned, I wrote an application that "spoke" text files. It used a "database toolbox" from Borland to store words and the corresponding phoneme string. After entering about a thousand phoneme strings for various words I realized I needed to break words down to prefix / suffix / root to save data entry time (and dictionary). I wrote a function that found and stripped off the prefixes and suffixes using a brute force method. My "acid test" was AntiDisEstablishMentArianism. The time to compile / parse a paragraph I used for testing dropped from 3.5 minutes to 20 seconds when I added a 2mb ram disk and used that to run Turbo Pascal. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! Wow, quite a history...after reading through that, I think the gist of it was, you're an old fart! LOL Just kidding JC. The first programming I got into was DOS Basic, and that was on an 8088. My Dad worked for IBM when I was growing up, so we always had an IBM PC (starting with that 5100) in the house. I remember when VGA came out, we thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread! LOL. However, the most impressive gadget (even to this day), was when my dad came home with a PCMCIA 10 meg solid state non-volatile RAM drive. He put it in his laptop, and turned it on. The computer beeped that it was ready, and his screen was still scrolling through DOS commands. I know it was DOS, but I wonder how fast Windows would load off of a 'RAM' disk. (Non-Volatile of course) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! In 1977 I was building my first computer from board kits that I ordered from ads in the back of Popular Electronics. The standard of the time was the S100 backplane and the Z-80 or 6800 microprocessor. I went with a 1mhz z80 that could address a whopping 64kb or Ram, bought (2) 4 KByte static ram boards, then an 8 KByte board, and finally a 16 KByte board. By the time I got out of the Navy in June of 1978 I had the system with all but one of the 4K ram boards running for a grand total of 28 Kbytes of ram. The video board of the time had 80 x 32 (I think) character display with crude character graphics, and a serial port for loading a cassette tape. I hooked it up to my stereo cassette deck and used that to load the Zapple 16K basic (no relationship to Apple AFAIK) which took 3 minutes to load. Which of course left me with 8 Kbytes for my programs. Never really did much with it other than learning how to program in Basic. The Zapple basic wasn't very stable and crashed a lot. Of course it may very well have had something to do with only having 8K to work with and running out of memory. But I used that and tinkered until about 1982 when I worked for a graphics company called Megatek in the "Silicon valley of San Diego", Sorrento Valley. A group of 5 of us purchased the same SBC (Single Board Computer), a 16mhz 80186 based computer with 256 kbytes, 2 serial ports and a dial floppy interface. It ran CPM which was pretty much the OS of the day. It also had the option of soldering a second RAM chip over the top of the first chip, bending up one leg of the chip (RAS I believe) and doubling the ram which I promptly did so I had 500 kbytes. A tiny startup by the name of Borland had just published a radical language called Turbo Pascal which I purchased. At the time I was a bench technician fixing the graphics systems for Megatek, and one day I found 4 perfectly good engineering prototypes of their latest and greatest (but low end) graphics workstations - in the dumpster. Of course I promptly brought them back in to the building and was going to take them home. I was politely informed that they HAD to go in the trash (tax regulations apparently) but I persisted and finally got them to allow me to sign a paper saying I wouldn't resell them and that I could have them. Holy smoke batman! These were 1024 x 768 x 256 color vector graphic engineering workstations, with rotation, translation, scaling, hidden surface elimination, phong shading (all the hot graphics stuff of 1983). And I had 4 of them (I promptly gave three to my cohorts who had built the same SBC I had). A good friend who worked in Engineering writing the drivers for these machines came over to my house and got me started writing drivers for this thing to interface it to my SBC, and a year later I had written a complete driver set for every instruction that the workstation had, and had programmed a 3D sphere using squares (thinking back I don't know why I didn't use triangles), which I could rotate, scale up and down, translate (move back and forth in any plane) etc. Not terribly useful but by then I was a pretty competent programmer and soon after made the jump from fixing computers to programming them. Believe me, it was quite a step down when in 1986 I decided that CPM was dying and I had better get on the DOS bandwagon. I purchased a 12mhz 8088 PCXT which was several times slower than the SBC I was running, but it did have a 20mb hard disk and I could also buy 1mb memory expansion boards for extended memory. Plus I bought Lotus 123, DbII and Word Perfect (still programmed in Turbo Pascal though). Dog slow, but thoroughly modern! Yea, those were the good old days. And MAN were computers expensive!!! My first (and last, come to think of it) "store bought" was a 20mhz 80386 with 4 mbytes of RAM and a 40 mb disk for $3,500! That would be about 1988 I think. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! That was my first (almost) computer system. Of course I was five or six, but I remember playing Star Trek on there, and also a little game where a 'ship' went across the top, and one across the bottom, you could shot 'phasers' and torpedos, and you had to try to hit the opposite ship. To a 5 year old, those tapes were HUGE, in retrospect, I remember them being about the size of a VHS tape, but from that picture, they look closer to BetaMax size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] The good times! http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 10:30:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:30:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8B@main2.marlow.com> There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may say Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they have within the database itself. I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which removed the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so I had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 6 10:30:38 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:30:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F82@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Message-ID: <001401c4337f$198646b0$6401a8c0@COA3> Access version? 2k2+ can use Application.Printers collection, and Printer objects. Older versions need API calls to PRTDEVMODE and other functions (arcane, to say the least). Hth Steve http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/access/codesamples/defaul t.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnacc2k2/html/odc_acc10_printers.asp -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 10:34:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:34:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 6 10:36:49 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:36:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Message-ID: <001a01c4337f$f5adfca0$6401a8c0@COA3> Sorry about that, I don't know how I typed in those extra 2k2's ..... Older versions ( <= A2k) need API calls to PRTDEVMODE and other functions, arcane, to say the least. -----Original Message----- From: Developer [mailto:Developer at UltraDNT.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Access version? 2k2+ can use Application.Printers collection, and Printer objects. Hth Steve http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/access/codesamples/defaul t.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnacc2k2/html/odc_acc10_printers.asp -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Thu May 6 10:33:58 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:33:58 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <000901c4337f$8ff863a0$0300a8c0@masterserver> We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 6 10:45:17 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:45:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001f01c43381$24658fd0$6401a8c0@COA3> Agreed - my customers never want to see Invoice 1. They don't want to look like newbies, so I start them at 1000 (or, 10,000) Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may say Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they have within the database itself. I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which removed the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so I had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > autonumber either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset > the autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in > a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. > Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with > the next value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database ? Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > **** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************ ** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu May 6 10:45:15 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:45:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars Message-ID: you might want to try: me.infDescrip = Eval("Reports![" & infnombre & "].caption" MastercafeCTV To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars 05/06/2004 10:33 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 6 10:51:16 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:51:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5A8@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <> Well besides the math, Autonumber will wrap to a negative value after that and come back to 0. You can never run out. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 10:54:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:54:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars Message-ID: Me.InfDescrip = Reports(infnombre).caption Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 10:56:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:56:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: I would use an autonumber to identify the record. Then I would have a separate field for an invoice number and populate it through code. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Developer [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Agreed - my customers never want to see Invoice 1. They don't want to look like newbies, so I start them at 1000 (or, 10,000) Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may say Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they have within the database itself. I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which removed the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so I had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > autonumber either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset > the autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in > a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. > Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with > the next value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database ? Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > **** > ** > ******* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > is > confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail > address > noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************************ ** > ** > ******* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 10:58:38 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82A6@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket > Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). > There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to > an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and > so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may > say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just > built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for > credit > card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated > from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each > shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which > removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 6 11:00:43 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:00:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5AE@TAPPEEXCH01> Hmm... Didn't know that. Good to know. But what if you have 4,294,967,297 records in your table? Then you would run into a primary key conflict when the autonumber reaches 1 again. Talk about shoddy programming practices! P.S. For the humor impaired, that was a joke. P.P.S. If you don't know why that was a joke, try inserting 4 billion records into an Access table. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 <> Well besides the math, Autonumber will wrap to a negative value after that and come back to 0. You can never run out. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > In > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until you've > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > go > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database > ? > Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 6 11:02:57 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:02:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file Message-ID: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> Hi all If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the error above. The wizard can not accept a password. I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with PWD=mypassword; so it becomes Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same error. Is this possible? /gustav From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 11:06:46 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:06:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C7@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 11:11:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:11:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B8E@main2.marlow.com> I see your point. However, at this point in time, I would rather stick with a simple Autonumber, which saves current development time, then rolling my own. I say this because I can imagine far worse 'requests' from management then to change an autonumber. Not too mention I get paid by the hour, so I honestly don't really care if I have to rebuild something. I try to build a lot of flexibility into my apps, but I can't program around every possibility. Not arguing, just expressing my viewpoint on it. Also, the IS Request system isn't 'seen' by upper management. It's an 'internal' IS app. The only interface anyone else sees is when they put in a request. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket > Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, 2, etc.). > There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other then to refer to > an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying 'That ticket that so and > so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a particular request, I may > say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. Just > built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, for > credit > card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that cannot be repeated > from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID which represents each > shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the live database, which > removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has > mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important > then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby > horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a > table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such > an > AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables > together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do that. > > In > > fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the autonumber > > either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in a > > dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. Then > > go > > in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with the next > > value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 11:13:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:13:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: Remember, autonumbers don't *have* to be > 0! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Hmm... Didn't know that. Good to know. But what if you have 4,294,967,297 records in your table? Then you would run into a primary key conflict when the autonumber reaches 1 again. Talk about shoddy programming practices! P.S. For the humor impaired, that was a joke. P.P.S. If you don't know why that was a joke, try inserting 4 billion records into an Access table. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 <> Well besides the math, Autonumber will wrap to a negative value after that and come back to 0. You can never run out. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I had a coworker who used autonumber fields in a few of his temp tables, who actually used DAO code to remove and re-add the field to his table. When I asked him why, he told me that he needed to reset the autonumber so he doesn't reach the upper limit (2,147,483,647). I told him that he needed to brush up on his math skills; that apparently he had no concept of how much a billion was. Last I heard, he was pursuing a career in politics ;-) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 >if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). Amen. OTOH I have had to "reset" the autonumber many times, to a value larger than the last one used, because something as happened to reset the autonumber back down to an invalid value. I was simply answering the question. I figured I'd leave the soap box to someone else for once. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this is an old hobby horse of mine). An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related tables together. If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is being given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, and that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be aware of. Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). Just my 2 cents. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > autonumber either, > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > issue so be careful. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset > the autonumber. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append in > a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you want. > Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick up with > the next value > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > paul.hartland at fsmail.net > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:25 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > To all, > Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a > Database ? Thanks in advance. > Paul > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Thu May 6 11:10:17 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:10:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c43384$a019c6c0$0300a8c0@masterserver> Really we are stupid... We use this to reference to forms.... But don't think of it. Many thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: jueves, 06 de mayo de 2004 17:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Substituying with vars Me.InfDescrip = Reports(infnombre).caption Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Substituying with vars We are trying to retrieve some parameters of a Reports, like caption or rowsource. The problem is that we use this code: Me.InfDescrip = Reports![infnombre].caption Where infnombre is the name of the report, but dont run, only if we put the exactly name can retrieve. Anyone knows how to use this to retrieve? Thanks Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 11:17:21 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:17:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: You're on your on there. I wouldn't touch that design with a barge pole for any amount of money! You aren't really talking about the limitations of the report, you're talking about the limitations of the memo field control. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 11:20:42 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:20:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: I *always* program around that particular possibility. I've been bitten every time I didn't, and I'm running out of room for scars! Account numbers, Employee numbers, invoice numbers, and any other "numeric" identifiers tend to change their structure and logic without notice. When they casually mention that they've decided to go from 5 digits to 9, I just say, "no problem" and run an update query. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I see your point. However, at this point in time, I would rather stick with a simple Autonumber, which saves current development time, then rolling my own. I say this because I can imagine far worse 'requests' from management then to change an autonumber. Not too mention I get paid by the hour, so I honestly don't really care if I have to rebuild something. I try to build a lot of flexibility into my apps, but I can't program around every possibility. Not arguing, just expressing my viewpoint on it. Also, the IS Request system isn't 'seen' by upper management. It's an 'internal' IS app. The only interface anyone else sees is when they put in a request. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, > 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other > then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying > 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a > particular request, I may say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. > Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, > for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that > cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID > which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the > live database, which removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody > has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is > important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this > is an old hobby horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in > a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of > such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related > tables together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > > autonumber either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim > > DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append > > in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you > > want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick > > up with the next value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 11:35:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B91@main2.marlow.com> Don't get me wrong. I don't use Autonumbers 'willy-nilly' as 'human' identifiers. 99% of the time, I do use some other field, or 'calculated' value. There are those one percents though, where I feel very comfortable letting a user see an Autonumber. I used the Ticket number as an example, because it was an in house project, that I had/have complete control over. It's not something I have to push out the door, and let someone else play around with it. I don't think I can recall any instance of external usage of AutoNumbers as 'visible' keys. There may have been some, but I can't say either way. I do tend to stick to something the user can identify with. (ie, employee numbers are usually 'built' from other stuff', Invoices always seem to have date/month info in them, etc.). Well, I think we beat this horse to death already. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I *always* program around that particular possibility. I've been bitten every time I didn't, and I'm running out of room for scars! Account numbers, Employee numbers, invoice numbers, and any other "numeric" identifiers tend to change their structure and logic without notice. When they casually mention that they've decided to go from 5 digits to 9, I just say, "no problem" and run an update query. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 I see your point. However, at this point in time, I would rather stick with a simple Autonumber, which saves current development time, then rolling my own. I say this because I can imagine far worse 'requests' from management then to change an autonumber. Not too mention I get paid by the hour, so I honestly don't really care if I have to rebuild something. I try to build a lot of flexibility into my apps, but I can't program around every possibility. Not arguing, just expressing my viewpoint on it. Also, the IS Request system isn't 'seen' by upper management. It's an 'internal' IS app. The only interface anyone else sees is when they put in a request. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 Regarding the ticket number. Sure, as described everything will work just fine. But the possibility exists that one day "senior management" will rear its head and decide that they want to structure the ticket number such that they can pack some more information into it (like AM/PM indicators, or the hour of the day, or what the current temperature is, or the size of shoes worn by the user, any dumb stuff they might want to know by glancing a the "ticket number"). After they have listened to your arguments for not doing this, and instructed you that you HAVE to do it you'll need to add a new field with all the bells and whistles asked (demanded) and write the code to construct the "number". Then you'll need to rewrite any code and forms and reports that display the "ticket number" so that they display the new fanged number. On the other hand if, right from the start, you had an AutoNumber field used for linking tables, and a Ticket Number field for display then there would be no problems whatever silly numbering scheme someone comes up with. The AutoNumber field remains unchanged so relationships are kept intact. All that's needed is to rewrite the code that generates the "ticket number" . At first it would simply copy the value of the AutoNumber field into the ticket number. Later the routine could be modified any way that "they" like and still all the relationships will work. Your second case is just a specialized example of the first one, where AuthorizedNet is the demanding management group. If you'd used an indexed, no dups field other than an AutoNumber one to present to AuthorizedNet as a CartID you would have had total control over the range of values used and would not have had to reset your AutoNumber PK fields to a magic number starting point to satisfy AuthorizedNet. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [SMTP:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:30 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > There are exceptions. I use the AutoNumber field for our IS Request > Ticket Numbers. Started it at 1000. (Just so we didn't have ticket 1, > 2, etc.). There is no 'real' importance to the ticket number, other > then to refer to an exact ticket. Most of the time, we are saying > 'That ticket that so and so put in.....'. But if I email Mark about a > particular request, I may say > Request #xyzm . Where could a problem develop with that? They don't have > to be entirely sequential, they have no other meaning then being the > identifier for the requests they represent, which is the same purpose they > have within the database itself. > > I have a good reason for changing a starting AutoNumber, however. > Just built our online Shopping Cart. It interacts with AuthorizedNet, > for credit card purchases. AuthorizedNet requires a number that > cannot be repeated from one cart to the next. So, i use the CartID > which represents each shopping cart. After testing, I cleaned up the > live database, which removed > the test carts, and compacted the database. That reset the Autonumber, so > I > had to bump it back up, into a range which hadn't been used yet, otherwise > AuthorizedNet would have refused the transactions. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] AutoNumber To Start From 900120 > > > Quite a few replies to this question, but I'm surprised that nobody > has mentioned that if some specific value of an AutoNumber field is > important then the AutoNumber field is not being used properly (this > is an old hobby horse of mine). > > An AutoNumber field is supposed to uniquely identify a specific row in > a table. That's all. The user's need not ever see or know the value of > such an AutoNumber field, it's used by the database to link related > tables together. > If the value of an AutoNumber field is important to a user then it is > being > given some other meaning, and that's only going to cause problems down the > line. In effect you are storing two pieces of information in one field, > and > that's contrary to the normalization principals we should all at least be > aware of. > > Even Microsoft seem to have woken up to this as A2K+ no longer reset > AutoNumber's on compacting (thanks for testing that John). > > Just my 2 cents. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Issue? I thought that was feature. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > Colby > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Uhh... yep. At least in A2K and earlier. AXP doesn't seem to do > > that. In fact I just tested in A2K SR1 and it isn't resetting the > > autonumber either, > > so a service pack may have fixed that. But it definitely used to be an > > issue so be careful. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim > > DeMarco > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:47 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > Yes this will work. One caveat though: do not compact the db until > you've > > got the seed number you want inserted. Compacting will reset the > > autonumber. > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 > > > > > > One way that works with all versions of Access (AFAIK) is to append > > in a dummy record specifying a value one less than the number you > > want. Then go in and delete that record. The next record will pick > > up with the next value > > (assuming an incrementing autonumber) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Thu May 6 12:15:05 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:15:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <200405061714.NAA24837@jake.bcentralhost.com> Paul Try something like this:
You just need to add the script code in the form definition. It works in IE and Netscape. I don't know about other browsers. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 12:19:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:19:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B84@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: OK, I'll bite, what the heck is CDO. I went out and found a bunch of stuff on Google but from what I can find it requires a "mail server". Will this work for my system here at the home office or clients with just a workgroup? You realize that the response you just gave is one of those "annoying" pretty much useless things. If you're going to claim you use some wonderful whizbang widget you could at least provide a link to get started in understanding how in the world I can use your wonderful whizbang widget. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Thu May 6 12:46:25 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 23:16:25 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 References: <8813577.1083846285521.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: <01f801c43392$2fea69f0$331865cb@winxp> Paul, Settings for AutoNumbers in a table can be customized through SQL Specific Query (In Query Design View, Click Query -> SQL Specific). Sample SQL statements are given below - (a) Modifying an existing Table - ALTER TABLE T_Books ALTER COLUMN BookID COUNTER (2000, 10) The above Query when run, modifies the settings for AutoNumbers In Column [BookID] Of Table [ T_Books] as follows - StartValue (Henceforth) = 2000 Increment Value (Henceforth) = 10 (If AutoNumber field is also the Primary Key, New start value should be so chosen as not to result in duplication of any existing value) (b) Creating a new Table - CREATE TABLE T_Books (BookID AUTOINCREMENT (2000, 10), Title Text) This creates a new Table with two columns i.e. [BookID] of AutoNumber type starting at 2000 (Increment = 10) and [Title] of Text type. Note - KeyWords AUTOINCREMENT and COUNTER can be used interchangeably Regards, A.D. Tejpal ----------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net To: accessd Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 17:54 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 6 12:55:16 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:55:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. Message-ID: Sorry about the OT nature of this message. I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From serbach at new.rr.com Thu May 6 13:29:44 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:29:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! Message-ID: <20040506132944.2066544880.serbach@new.rr.com> John, Did you ever read Jerry Pournelle's "The User's Guide"? It's a compendium of his early Byte columns. Your missive put me in mind of it. Regards, Steve Erbach Neenah, WI "PRACTICAL HOMEMAKER TIP -- Always keep an open box of baking soda in your refrigerator. That way, when people come to your house to visit, you can say: 'Would you care for some cold baking soda?' Then they will leave." - Dave Barry From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 6 13:43:05 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:43:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1383C8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Without the control and using only a text box with plain text, it does not print more than 22 inches. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You're on your on there. I wouldn't touch that design with a barge pole for any amount of money! You aren't really talking about the limitations of the report, you're talking about the limitations of the memo field control. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 6 13:43:21 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:43:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel References: <002901c4332d$3cdb81e0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Message-ID: <409A8749.80806@shaw.ca> Have a look at this http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=uKAld5ikCHA.2708%40tkmsftngp11&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522Microsoft%2BAccess%2Bcan%27t%2Bretrieve%2Bthe%2Bvalue%2Bof%2Bthis%2Bproperty%2522%2Bexcel%2Boffice%2Blinks%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DuKAld5ikCHA.2708%2540tkmsftngp11%26rnum%3D1 It suggests you may have null in a numeric field or calculatedd control http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/attac-cg/ look in the Code and Design Tips area under the Reports section. There is a method discussed there as to how to modify your query to accept vb param at run time and still use TransferSpreadsheet or OutputTo. Jennifer Gross wrote: >Hi Group, > >I am having a problem on certain reports using Office Links > Analyze it >with Excel. Here is the error message I have received: >---------------- >Microsoft Access can't retrieve the value of this property. > >The property isn't available from the view in which you're running the >macro or Visual Basic code, or Microsoft Access encountered an error >while retrieving the value of the property. >To see the valid settings for this property, search the Help index for >the name of the property. >---------------- > >I've searched Microsoft's knowledge base as well as the archives with no >luck. > >I am able to use Office Links > Excel successfully on the report's >underlying query. There is nothing unusual going on in these reports, a >little sorting, a little grouping. The only calculated controls are >totals in either the group or report footers. > >Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, > >Jennifer Gross >databasics >+ 01 (805) 480-1921 >www.databasicsdesign.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Thu May 6 13:58:22 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel In-Reply-To: <409A8749.80806@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001801c4339c$1d7bbda0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Thanks Marty - at least I know I'm not the only one. I wound up building my own export to excel, which works without a hitch. Thanks again, Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office Links > Analyze it with Excel Have a look at this http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=uKAl d5ikCHA.2708%40tkmsftngp11&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522Microsoft%2BAc cess%2Bcan%27t%2Bretrieve%2Bthe%2Bvalue%2Bof%2Bthis%2Bproperty%2522%2Bex cel%2Boffice%2Blinks%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm% 3DuKAld5ikCHA.2708%2540tkmsftngp11%26rnum%3D1 It suggests you may have null in a numeric field or calculatedd control http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/attac-cg/ look in the Code and Design Tips area under the Reports section. There is a method discussed there as to how to modify your query to accept vb param at run time and still use TransferSpreadsheet or OutputTo. Jennifer Gross wrote: >Hi Group, > >I am having a problem on certain reports using Office Links > Analyze it >with Excel. Here is the error message I have received: >---------------- >Microsoft Access can't retrieve the value of this property. > >The property isn't available from the view in which you're running the >macro or Visual Basic code, or Microsoft Access encountered an error >while retrieving the value of the property. >To see the valid settings for this property, search the Help index for >the name of the property. >---------------- > >I've searched Microsoft's knowledge base as well as the archives with no >luck. > >I am able to use Office Links > Excel successfully on the report's >underlying query. There is nothing unusual going on in these reports, a >little sorting, a little grouping. The only calculated controls are >totals in either the group or report footers. > >Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, > >Jennifer Gross >databasics >+ 01 (805) 480-1921 >www.databasicsdesign.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 6 13:53:33 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:53:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <409A89AD.3010305@shaw.ca> That's kind of an old version of Excel. It is Excel 95 that you are calling. You could try 8.0 See SAMPLE: ExcelADO Demonstrates How to Use ADO to Read and Write Data in Excel Workbooks http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;278973 or http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/OLEDB_Providers.htm#OLEDBProviderForMicrosoftJetExcel http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/ODBC_DSNLess.htm#ODBCDriverForExcel Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi all > >If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >error above. >The wizard can not accept a password. > >I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with > > PWD=mypassword; > >so it becomes > > Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls > >but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >error. > >Is this possible? > >/gustav > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 14:01:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:01:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B92@main2.marlow.com> Um ya, CDO requires a mail server, but what do you think Outlook uses to send mail? Magic? LOL. CDO is the core of MAPI. You can use MAPI, but if you know how to use CDO, it's a little more flexible. I sent Francisco a VB program, off list that displays the file folder sizes of the .pst files you use in Outlook. Does exchange folders too. It all uses CDO. If you want, I'd be more then happy to send that to you offlist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object OK, I'll bite, what the heck is CDO. I went out and found a bunch of stuff on Google but from what I can find it requires a "mail server". Will this work for my system here at the home office or clients with just a workgroup? You realize that the response you just gave is one of those "annoying" pretty much useless things. If you're going to claim you use some wonderful whizbang widget you could at least provide a link to get started in understanding how in the world I can use your wonderful whizbang widget. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 6 14:04:49 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:04:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are already there. On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the if statement and added a parameter to go with it: Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) has become Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an error: Compile Error ... Expected: = What in the hey am I doing wrong?! Thanks for the help...now and in the past! I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! btw...A97 John W Clark From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 6 14:15:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:15:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B94@main2.marlow.com> Are you calling this function from other places? If so, did you add that argument in? You can add parameters to existing functions, and not have to backtrack to old 'users' of that function, by putting the arguments at the end, and use the OPTIONAL flag before the parameter. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are already there. On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the if statement and added a parameter to go with it: Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) has become Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an error: Compile Error ... Expected: = What in the hey am I doing wrong?! Thanks for the help...now and in the past! I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! btw...A97 John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 6 15:26:04 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:26:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82AD@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 15:35:28 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no return value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 6 17:04:32 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:04:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BB@TAPPEEXCH01> Nothing odd about it. And it's far from the "wrong" syntax. When you place parenthesis around an expression, you are telling the compiler to evaluate the expression and pass its value, not its reference to the called routine. Private Sub Sub1() Dim strThis As String strThis = "Hello, World!" Sub2 strThis Debug.Print strThis End Sub Private Sub Sub2(strArg As String) strArg = strArg & " How are you?" End Sub What result would you expect when you run Sub1? Answer: Hello, World! How are you? This is because implicitly VB(A) passes arguments by reference (a pointer to a memory location) instead of by value (a copy of the memory location's contents). Now... changing the calling syntax slightly: Private Sub Sub1() Dim strThis As String strThis = "Hello, World!" Sub2 (strThis) 'You could also use Call Sub2((strThis)) Debug.Print strThis End Sub Your are the compiler evaluates the expression, and passes its value to Sub2. Your result is Hello, World!. BTW, the same result can be achieved by using the ByVal keyword in your argument definition i.e. Private Sub Sub2(ByVal strArg As String) I follow this practice religously in all of my code, to avoid accidentally overwriting the calling routine's variable contents. Many developers don't bother. Don't know why. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no return value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 6 17:08:56 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:08:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Message-ID: A 22-inch textbox? On 22-inch paper? Somehow, I'm having trouble envisioning what you're doing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Without the control and using only a text box with plain text, it does not print more than 22 inches. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You're on your on there. I wouldn't touch that design with a barge pole for any amount of money! You aren't really talking about the limitations of the report, you're talking about the limitations of the memo field control. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the printed length. And yes, the client wants to print that amount. Here's the scenario: a monthly compilation of data with all the additions, counting, etc for 50 locations into one report. Comments are added to the report with one memo field. Usually text explaining what the data means... if there is any extenuating circumstances for an increase or decrease, etc. I am using FMS Total Access Memo to help with formatting, etc. On occasion, they have inserted a chart into the field to help explain the data. I have not been able to print more 22 inches of the memo field. In the "user's manual" there is one statement: "Excessively long memos may not print in their entirety on an Access report." Even without the FMS TA Memo it doesn't print past the 22 inches. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I was talking about the limitation on the physical length of the report or subreport object. I've never seen paper 22 inches long, but I certainly have printed reports with multiple printed pages, definitely exceeding 22 printed inches, which use subreports on a normal size report to handle the overflow. The physical length of all objects together doesn't exceed 22 inches, but the printed length does. The CanGrow properties allow the object to expand when needed. Are you talking about something else? Frankly, I've never wanted to print a 22 inch memo field, since to me that smacks of poor design. I don't see what good a memo field of that length would be since you couldn't put a useful index on it and I object to multicomment fields. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh Charlotte, I have to disagree on one point. Access will NOT print more than 22 inches in each section (subreports included). I have a report with one memo field in a section. The report will print up to 22 inches for that section, but no more, even if there is more data in the field. If you know how to ensure all the data in the memo field is printed, please enlighten me. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh You can't do it that way. Use subreports instead. Each report, including each subreport can be no longer than 22 inches, but the length limit only applies to the individual components in design view. In addition to a limit on fields, Access reports have a limit on the total number of controls, including graphics and page breaks, that can ever be added to the report, no matter how many you might delete first. If you have a huge number of fields, then subreports is probably the only way to handle it regardless. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Kriegel [mailto:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Report length limit...ugh I'm building a report and my detail section needs to be longer than 22 inches? The report I'm building is an application with tons of fields that need to go in the detail section (it's about 4 pages if I print the blank word document). We are populating this database with values from our website and I'm trying to build a report to print out for HR. Any help would be great! Thanks, Jamie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 6 17:26:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:26:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Group, My latest department deployment has tested fine with one exception. How can I force UNC naming for the linked tables? I looked over some published relinking code, but was not prepared to drop in any code that could possibly involve user intervention. Mark From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 18:39:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:39:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227B92@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Yes, please send it. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Um ya, CDO requires a mail server, but what do you think Outlook uses to send mail? Magic? LOL. CDO is the core of MAPI. You can use MAPI, but if you know how to use CDO, it's a little more flexible. I sent Francisco a VB program, off list that displays the file folder sizes of the .pst files you use in Outlook. Does exchange folders too. It all uses CDO. If you want, I'd be more then happy to send that to you offlist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object OK, I'll bite, what the heck is CDO. I went out and found a bunch of stuff on Google but from what I can find it requires a "mail server". Will this work for my system here at the home office or clients with just a workgroup? You realize that the response you just gave is one of those "annoying" pretty much useless things. If you're going to claim you use some wonderful whizbang widget you could at least provide a link to get started in understanding how in the world I can use your wonderful whizbang widget. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I would have to disagree a bit there John. I use CDO or persists ASP email to deal with email. Outlook can be just plain annoying with security issues it puts in place, etc. If I NEED Outlook, then I use it, but I don't use it if I don't have too. Same with Excel. I have LOTS of applications that 'create' excel spreadsheets WITHOUT excel, instead, I use ADO. Of course I do have some that do use excel, when I need to actual format stuff, etc. But if the client just wants an excel import, or an export to excel, I don't bother to even mess with Excel. I use ADO, it's faster, lighter, and more interestingly, doesn't require excel to work. (And believe me, it's FASTER.....had an excel import into Access, where importing using Excel took 2 mintues a sheet, and ADO took 5 seconds per sheet.). Why would I want something that works without excel? Web applications, where the web server is handing out excel files.....who wants office installed on a web server? Same with FSO. If you are using a lot of FSO features.....well heck, use FSO. But if you just need specific functions, why use FSO? If I want to know if a file exists, I use Dir. If I want to read/write a file, I use Open "..." For Binary Access Read/Write as x. If I want to delete a file, I use Kill. I find that a majority of my projects that need to interact with the actual file system, only use a few file commands, not the entire package. Just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using either approach. Just saying that if something is 'robust', it doesn't make it the better choice in all situations. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object Bobby, This brings up a good point. If your application requires scanning thousands of files and cataloging them, or something of this magnitude, then worrying about sub milli-second differences in speed / operation pays off and is worth the programming effort to optimize. OTOH, 99.9% of Access users don't do anything remotely resembling something this massive. If your need is simpler - creating directories, copying files etc., then the FSO is a wonderful tool, completely documented, very flexible, intellisense while you are programming it etc. It is annoying to get a "I hate the FSO" with nothing to back up why other than "VBA is capable of everything I need and is faster". Yea, so what! What are YOUR needs and HOW MUCH FASTER. And what in the world does this have to do with me? I am supposed to ignore a very versatile tool because "VBA meets YOUR needs and is faster (How much faster? For what purpose?). My friend Jurgen worked for an organization where the Net Admins ran their organization like a concentration camp, locking the place up like they were guarding nuclear weapons (our military should have their security!). He worked on slow computers where every processor cycle counted, over dial in connections. All of which means absolutely squat to me. I have NEVER worked in a place like that (and I've been doing this for a decade now!) but I am supposed to waste my time NOT using a perfectly good tool because Jurgen HATES it? I don't think so! If and when I run into the idiot net admin I will develop the tools specifically for that customer to get around the idiot, and charge them for their requirements as I'm sure anyone else would do. In the meantime I have no intention of charging my sane clients to develop stuff they don't need developed. For anyone who has ever bothered to look, the File System Object is to the file system what the Outlook object is to Email, what the Excel object is to spreadsheets, what the word object is to documents. These are all just programming models for writing the application in the least amount of time, using prewritten objects to do one piece of the task without ground up programming. To ignore such tools without specific (valid) reasons applied to the specific task you are working on is ludicrous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I found quite the opposite using the dir function in VB6. The API (not the FSO) was orders of magnitudes faster in getting all of the file names and information about the files off of a large hard drive. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object I find the scripting runtime is not enabled in many environments. Hence no FSO. VB(A) is incredibly fast in working with the file system. File size, date modified and file/folder names are immediately available from the Dir function. I ran a test comparing the API dir performance with VBA Dir and the VBA was faster. The api could retrieve file creation time and additional attributes but at a cost of performance. You can create directories in less time than it takes to load the FSO. I have never had to provide any file system functionality that wasn't already built into VBA. When the job calls for a scalpel there is no need to get out a chain saw or a back hoe. It's also like a comparison between a public shared plastic spoon vs your own private silverware. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >Have I said before I hate the FS object... > >No doubt. > >Not sure exactly why. It is just an object model that allows >manipulation of the file system. Why not hate DAO? Why not hate the >Excel object model? Why not hate ... > >Never mind. > >It's just a tool. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 6 18:39:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:39:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The good times! In-Reply-To: <20040506132944.2066544880.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: He was one of my favorite reads back when - every month. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] The good times! John, Did you ever read Jerry Pournelle's "The User's Guide"? It's a compendium of his early Byte columns. Your missive put me in mind of it. Regards, Steve Erbach Neenah, WI "PRACTICAL HOMEMAKER TIP -- Always keep an open box of baking soda in your refrigerator. That way, when people come to your house to visit, you can say: 'Would you care for some cold baking soda?' Then they will leave." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lytlenj at yahoo.com Thu May 6 20:13:49 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: <20040507011349.43972.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> I use the relinker but have a table in the front end that holds the UNC back end path, then a form(which is opened hidden when the database is opened) text box which contains the UNC path and have the relinker read from the form. That way I can quickly change the BE path when I move from development to production versions. I hope I have explained this well enough. Nancy From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Thu May 6 20:24:34 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:24:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Suppress Sub reports with conditional IF Message-ID: I am writing a form letter via a report, (mail merge did not work for this one). I need to suppress or show two sub reports on this report depending on the value of a field. There is a field on the Report named Status which is either refused or approved. If it is approved I need to show Appsubrep and if it is refused Groundsrefrep. As they both contain text as well as Data just placing them on top of one another and letting the one with data show won't work in this case. Should I do this in the Onload of the form using a conditional IF on the visible property of the sub reports? Does anyone have a better/more appropriate solution? All help greatly appreciated. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu May 6 20:41:18 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:41:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Suppress Sub reports with conditional IF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040507014115.FHCV16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If there a subreport for each record or group? Or this a one-time choice? Susan H. I am writing a form letter via a report, (mail merge did not work for this one). I need to suppress or show two sub reports on this report depending on the value of a field. There is a field on the Report named Status which is either refused or approved. If it is approved I need to show Appsubrep and if it is refused Groundsrefrep. As they both contain text as well as Data just placing them on top of one another and letting the one with data show won't work in this case. Should I do this in the Onload of the form using a conditional IF on the visible property of the sub reports? Does anyone have a better/more appropriate solution? All help greatly appreciated. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Thu May 6 21:48:17 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:48:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: AccessD Digest, Vol 15, Issue 13 Message-ID: Susan, There are a few reports which use these sub reports but the reports all need this IF. There can be as many as 60 items in the sub reports but each sub report is only shown based on the answer.The first sub report lists the conditions of approval for the authority, so it is only needed if status is approved. The second sub lists grounds for refusal.They are needed only once in each report.I hope that is what you were asking Connie If there a subreport for each record or group? Or this a one-time choice? Susan H. I am writing a form letter via a report, (mail merge did not work for this one). I need to suppress or show two sub reports on this report depending on the value of a field. There is a field on the Report named Status which is either refused or approved. If it is approved I need to show Appsubrep and if it is refused Groundsrefrep. As they both contain text as well as Data just placing them on top of one another and letting the one with data show won't work in this case. Should I do this in the Onload of the form using a conditional IF on the visible property of the sub reports? Does anyone have a better/more appropriate solution? All help greatly appreciated. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 6 22:33:46 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:33:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required In-Reply-To: <9708125.1083836583482.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: Hi Paul: Use this line at the server: 'http://localhost/MyWebSiteDirectory/index.asp'. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Had to reconfigure IIS first, managed to fumble my way round it....now it works if you use it from the server, but still tries to download when used from a workstation. Message date : May 06 2004, 10:39 AM >From : "MarkH" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required Or, sorry if this is too obvious :O) ... Are you typing the file path or URL into the address bar to get the first page? The file path is no good, you would need the URL to avoid bypassing IIS Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: 06 May 2004 10:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required I'm a bit rusty, but it sounds like you're not executing the asp. Could be a problem in the web properties in IIS (may need to hit "create application" - right click on web - properties etc.) or it could be folder permissions not sufficient... Hth Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: 06 May 2004 09:12 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - HTML & ASP Help Required To all, Being a complete novice to HTML & ASP I bought myself a couple of books on the subjects and have been playing around with a test logon page for our company. I have the HTML code (as below) saved as default.htm on a Windows 2000 server with IIS installed in the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory along with the ASP code which is saved as checklogin.asp in the same directory. On my Windows 98 machine at home with Personal Web Server (PWS) installed it runs fine, however when trying to run it on our server in the office it just displays the ASP code when the checklogin.asl page is called, and if you try it from a desktop it comes up with a you are about to download checklogin.asp page. Has anyone any ideas whats wrong, or can point me to a list on HTML and ASP etc. default.htm code below: Orridge & Co. Internet Reporting System Enter Username & Password Below COLOR="BLACK">Username: SIZE="30"> COLOR="BLACK">Password: NAME="Password" SIZE="30"> TYPE=Submit NAME="Submit" VALUE="Submit"> checklogin.asp code is below: Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 6 22:53:58 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:53:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F82@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Message-ID: Hi Mike: Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases sends it's work to the default printer. It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Everyone, I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to go back to the default printer. Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Thu May 6 23:00:03 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:30:03 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 Message-ID: I haven't read through all the replies, however the first half-dozen or so didn't mention it... Anwyay, rather than using append queried etc, you can simply set the seed through code, just as you would with SQL Server. I think the keyword is AUTOINCREMENT or COUNTER or something. A quick google search should find the answer. (not sure why you'd want to do this, as a PK shouldn't generally be seen or used 'externally') Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2004 9:55 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber To Start From 900120 To all, Is there a way of telling the Autonumber where to start from in a Database ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 02:36:38 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:36:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Message-ID: <17967545.1083915398793.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> James, Thanks works like a charm, hope I can help you with something one day. Paul Hartland Message date : May 06 2004, 06:19 PM >From : "James Barash" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Paul Try something like this: You just need to add the script code in the form definition. It works in IE and Netscape. I don't know about other browsers. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Alun.Garraway at otto.de Fri May 7 03:43:26 2004 From: Alun.Garraway at otto.de (Garraway, Alun) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:43:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter are pressed? Message-ID: hallo, in A2K, winNT how do I stop the the properties window (for the object with focus on a form) from showing when the user presses "Alt" & "Enter" ?? TIA :-) alun From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Fri May 7 03:54:49 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:54:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter arepressed? References: Message-ID: <000501c43410$f6473780$3f412d3e@jester> Alun, in form design, propertie sheet for the form, on the other tab, put 'design view only' at allow design changes. Then the properties window will not popup. HTH Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garraway, Alun" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter arepressed? > hallo, > > in A2K, winNT > > how do I stop the the properties window (for the object with focus on a form) > from showing when the user presses "Alt" & "Enter" ?? > > TIA :-) > > alun > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Alun.Garraway at otto.de Fri May 7 04:45:11 2004 From: Alun.Garraway at otto.de (Garraway, Alun) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:45:11 +0200 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enterarepressed? Message-ID: BINGO :-)) thanks Bert-Jan alun -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Bert-Jan Brinkhuis Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Mai 2004 10:55 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enterarepressed? Alun, in form design, propertie sheet for the form, on the other tab, put 'design view only' at allow design changes. Then the properties window will not popup. HTH Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garraway, Alun" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 AM Subject: [AccessD] Stop the Properties window showing when Alt-Enter arepressed? > hallo, > > in A2K, winNT > > how do I stop the the properties window (for the object with focus on a form) > from showing when the user presses "Alt" & "Enter" ?? > > TIA :-) > > alun > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 05:19:46 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:19:46 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] List Queries Message-ID: <151827.1083925186321.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, Gone totally brain dead, I want to print a list of all my queries in a database (500+) I only want the names and Documenter don't cater for this. So has anyone got any sample code for the QueryDef object that I could probably get a list that way ? Thanks in advance Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 05:32:17 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:32:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] ignore last email about list queries Message-ID: <17793726.1083925937776.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, Please ignore my last post, brain has kicked into gear for some reason. Paul -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 04:05:29 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:05:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file In-Reply-To: <409A89AD.3010305@shaw.ca> References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> <409A89AD.3010305@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <455075958.20040507110529@cactus.dk> Hi Marty > That's kind of an old version of Excel. It is Excel 95 that you are > calling. You could try 8.0 That's what Access 2000 writes when you link worksheet or named range as a table. I don't think it matters; I tried with 8.0 but no change. > See SAMPLE: ExcelADO Demonstrates How to Use ADO to Read and Write Data > in Excel Workbooks > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;278973 > or > http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/OLEDB_Providers.htm#OLEDBProviderForMicrosoftJetExcel > http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/ODBC_DSNLess.htm#ODBCDriverForExcel Thanks. Located this: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;211378 which tells a) to remove password (clever suggestion) b) to have Excel open while linking from Access However, following b), Access (97 or 2000) crashes using either code or the wizard, so at the best this wouldn't work reliably. This leaves a) as the clever solution ... /gustav >>If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >>password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >>error above. >>The wizard can not accept a password. >> >>I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with >> >> PWD=mypassword; >> >>so it becomes >> >> Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls >> >>but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >>error. >> >>Is this possible? >> >>/gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 04:16:25 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:16:25 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <255731160.20040507111625@cactus.dk> Hi Scott Run out? You should have 253 addresses so it's quite a server farm you have running ... Use a DHCP server. It's build-in in most routers and as services on Windows, NetWare and Linux servers or as a Linux stand alone option. Browse Google and you'll find piles of info. /gustav PS: Couldn't on of our brave moderators run a promotion for our OT tech-list? Lots of recent stuff should have lived there. > Sorry about the OT nature of this message. > I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so > that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 05:14:11 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:14:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Data mining and risk prediction Message-ID: <1299197034.20040507121411@cactus.dk> Hi those of you interested in data mining, risk calculation and statistics. Browsing the DB2 Magazine I noticed this very interesting and well written article which is available on-line as well (one-line URL): http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=FUG5YSB0YPZKAQSNDBNCKHQ?articleID=18900776 /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 05:21:51 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:21:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199657927.20040507122151@cactus.dk> Hi Jim and Mike I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of the report. Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. /gustav > Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured > to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the > development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases > sends it's work to the default printer. > It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Everyone, > I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out > different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go > to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes > in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to > go back to the default printer. > Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the > label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct > the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 07:02:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:02:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13015709348.20040507140243@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > My latest department deployment has tested fine with one exception. How can > I force UNC naming for the linked tables? I looked over some published > relinking code, but was not prepared to drop in any code that could possibly > involve user intervention. This may not be that easy but have a look here: http://www.mvps.org/vb/samples.htm#UncName For remote drive letters only, this module could be used. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL As Long = &H1& Private Declare Function WNetGetUniversalName Lib "mpr.dll" Alias "WNetGetUniversalNameA" ( _ ByVal lpLocalPath As String, _ ByVal dwInfoLevel As Long, _ ByRef lpBuffer As Any, _ ByRef lpBufferSize As Long) _ As Long Private Type UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO lpUniversalName As String * &H400& End Type Public Function GetUniversalPath( _ ByVal strDrivePath As String) _ As String ' Get UNC path from remote drive letter or drive letter and file name. ' Empty string is returned for local or non-mapped drive letters. ' Remote path is *not* validated except for the drive letter. ' ' Example: ' s:\docs\letter.txt ' ' may return ' ' \\FS1\SYS\DATA\docs\letter.txt ' ' 2002-03-25. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim typBuffer As UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO Dim lngBuffer As Long Dim strPath As String ' Obtain needed buffer size. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, 0, lngBuffer) ' Retrieve UNC info. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, typBuffer, lngBuffer) ' Extract UNC path from mixed buffer. strPath = typBuffer.lpUniversalName strPath = Mid$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) + 1) strPath = Left$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) - 1) GetUniversalPath = strPath End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 07:23:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:23:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10616959226.20040507142333@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 ' Wait forever. Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF ' The state of the specified object is signaled. Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 ' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hObject As Long) _ As Long ' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following occurs: ' - The specified object is in the signaled state. ' - The time-out interval elapses. ' ' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in milliseconds. ' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state is ' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s state ' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s time-out ' interval never elapses. ' ' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As a ' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. The ' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. ' ' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out ' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the process ' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with your ' processing. ' ' DOS Applications: ' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes ' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app that ' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". ' ' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, vbNormalFocus) Function ShellWait( _ ByVal strCommand As String) _ As Boolean Dim lngPid As Long Dim lngHnd As Long Dim lngReturn As Long Dim booSuccess As Boolean If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) If lngPid <> 0 Then ' Get a handle to the shelled process. lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the handle. If lngHnd <> 0 Then lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) CloseHandle (lngHnd) booSuccess = True End If MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" End If End If ShellWait = booSuccess End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri May 7 07:37:46 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:37:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086DD7C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4D5@ADGSERVER> Hi all, I am creating a flat file from access to be used in mail merge initiated by access. I basically create the flat file then load a pre-configured mail merge document and do the mail merge. The problem that I cannot figure out is how to have the column names in the flat file but not have them show up as the first record. Here's my relevant code: Set objWord = New Word.Application Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(strMergeDoc) objWord.Application.Visible = True With objDoc.MailMerge .MainDocumentType = wdFormLetters '.OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True '.opendatasource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True .destination = wdSendToNewDocument .Execute End With I tried using OpenHeaderSource to add a header file that has the column names in it, but it seems to ignore it. I added the following line to try to use the OpenHeaderSource function: .OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True Anyone have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'm sure it is some really easy, but U just can't see it. I did look through the archives, but did not see what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Bobby From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 07:51:09 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:51:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > My latest department deployment has tested fine with one exception. How can > I force UNC naming for the linked tables? I looked over some published > relinking code, but was not prepared to drop in any code that could possibly > involve user intervention. This may not be that easy but have a look here: http://www.mvps.org/vb/samples.htm#UncName For remote drive letters only, this module could be used. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL As Long = &H1& Private Declare Function WNetGetUniversalName Lib "mpr.dll" Alias "WNetGetUniversalNameA" ( _ ByVal lpLocalPath As String, _ ByVal dwInfoLevel As Long, _ ByRef lpBuffer As Any, _ ByRef lpBufferSize As Long) _ As Long Private Type UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO lpUniversalName As String * &H400& End Type Public Function GetUniversalPath( _ ByVal strDrivePath As String) _ As String ' Get UNC path from remote drive letter or drive letter and file name. ' Empty string is returned for local or non-mapped drive letters. ' Remote path is *not* validated except for the drive letter. ' ' Example: ' s:\docs\letter.txt ' ' may return ' ' \\FS1\SYS\DATA\docs\letter.txt ' ' 2002-03-25. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim typBuffer As UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO Dim lngBuffer As Long Dim strPath As String ' Obtain needed buffer size. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, 0, lngBuffer) ' Retrieve UNC info. Call WNetGetUniversalName(strDrivePath, UNIVERSAL_NAME_INFO_LEVEL, typBuffer, lngBuffer) ' Extract UNC path from mixed buffer. strPath = typBuffer.lpUniversalName strPath = Mid$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) + 1) strPath = Left$(strPath, InStr(strPath, vbNullChar) - 1) GetUniversalPath = strPath End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 07:53:57 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Thank you, I'll focus on this approach. It seems to be what I'm after. If I hit a stumbling block, I'll let you know;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lytle [mailto:lytlenj at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I use the relinker but have a table in the front end that holds the UNC back end path, then a form(which is opened hidden when the database is opened) text box which contains the UNC path and have the relinker read from the form. That way I can quickly change the BE path when I move from development to production versions. I hope I have explained this well enough. Nancy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 7 08:59:01 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:59:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Join The Tech List - was Expanding network IP addresses. Message-ID: <20040507125859.40F0625DD66@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Gustav's quite right. We have set up a tech list to discuss technical-but-not-Access questions like this. If would be really good if a) more people joined that list (see instructions on web site) and then b) we used it for its purpose and took this kind of thread off the main list. We can't force anyone to sign up to the tech list, but if you think that you might ever want help from people here on subjects such as networks, hardware, email software, etc, etc, etc then you should join up. Equally if you have good knowledge to share on such subjects then please join. I know that people email such OT threads to the main list because the tech list doesn't have as wide a coverage, but that would easily be solved if you'd all just sign up now. It's not hard - her's the link even http://www.databaseadvisors.com/lists/whatandhow.htm Just go there, go down to the Tech List and do what it says. Please. Now. Do it. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk (Well I tried Gustav) --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. Date: 07/05/04 12:26 > > Hi Scott > > Run out? You should have 253 addresses so it's quite a server farm you > have running ... > > Use a DHCP server. It's build-in in most routers and as services on > Windows, NetWare and Linux servers or as a Linux stand alone option. > > Browse Google and you'll find piles of info. > > /gustav > > PS: Couldn't on of our brave moderators run a promotion for our OT > tech-list? Lots of recent stuff should have lived there. > > > > Sorry about the OT nature of this message. > > > I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so > > that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. > > > Scott Marcus > > TSS Technologies, Inc. > > marcus at tsstech.com > > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 08:05:12 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. My current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying to avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are technically in another department and on-loan to us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 ' Wait forever. Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF ' The state of the specified object is signaled. Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 ' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hObject As Long) _ As Long ' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following occurs: ' - The specified object is in the signaled state. ' - The time-out interval elapses. ' ' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in milliseconds. ' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state is ' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s state ' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s time-out ' interval never elapses. ' ' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As a ' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. The ' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. ' ' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out ' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the process ' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with your ' processing. ' ' DOS Applications: ' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes ' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app that ' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". ' ' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, vbNormalFocus) Function ShellWait( _ ByVal strCommand As String) _ As Boolean Dim lngPid As Long Dim lngHnd As Long Dim lngReturn As Long Dim booSuccess As Boolean If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) If lngPid <> 0 Then ' Get a handle to the shelled process. lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the handle. If lngHnd <> 0 Then lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) CloseHandle (lngHnd) booSuccess = True End If MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" End If End If ShellWait = booSuccess End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 08:05:00 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:05:00 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3119446913.20040507150500@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? /gustav > Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, > but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would > like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable > with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri May 7 08:10:01 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:10:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086E317@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4D6@ADGSERVER> Should this have gone to the dba-tech list? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions Hi all, I am creating a flat file from access to be used in mail merge initiated by access. I basically create the flat file then load a pre-configured mail merge document and do the mail merge. The problem that I cannot figure out is how to have the column names in the flat file but not have them show up as the first record. Here's my relevant code: Set objWord = New Word.Application Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(strMergeDoc) objWord.Application.Visible = True With objDoc.MailMerge .MainDocumentType = wdFormLetters '.OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True '.opendatasource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True .destination = wdSendToNewDocument .Execute End With I tried using OpenHeaderSource to add a header file that has the column names in it, but it seems to ignore it. I added the following line to try to use the OpenHeaderSource function: .OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True Anyone have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'm sure it is some really easy, but U just can't see it. I did look through the archives, but did not see what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri May 7 08:11:23 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:11:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CBF@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 08:23:54 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:23:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have existing relinking code already in place...I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter mappings, I get an error. What I was looking for was an approach that (1)mimics published relinking code, such as http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, (2)forces UNC naming, yet (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? /gustav > Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, > but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would > like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable > with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri May 7 08:41:15 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:41:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions SOLVED In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3086E317@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB4D7@ADGSERVER> I'm not sure why, but I was able to get it to work properly by setting up the MM document so that it was not a true MM document. That is, it had the desired merge fields, but there was no source set up in the Word document. Then I used the OpenDataSource function to set the data source. Note that the data source has a single header line in it. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Mail merge from Access questions Hi all, I am creating a flat file from access to be used in mail merge initiated by access. I basically create the flat file then load a pre-configured mail merge document and do the mail merge. The problem that I cannot figure out is how to have the column names in the flat file but not have them show up as the first record. Here's my relevant code: Set objWord = New Word.Application Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(strMergeDoc) objWord.Application.Visible = True With objDoc.MailMerge .MainDocumentType = wdFormLetters '.OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True '.opendatasource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True .destination = wdSendToNewDocument .Execute End With I tried using OpenHeaderSource to add a header file that has the column names in it, but it seems to ignore it. I added the following line to try to use the OpenHeaderSource function: .OpenHeaderSource Name:=strDataFile, Format:=WDOpenFormatText, ReadOnly:=True Anyone have any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'm sure it is some really easy, but U just can't see it. I did look through the archives, but did not see what I was doing wrong. Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 08:46:49 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:46:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412784@bross.quiznos.net> There are other ways, in my opinion this is the best though, except for the breaking out of the creation of the paramter and asigning it in another line, you can set the value of the paramter when you create it. .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25, RANum) -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Joe Rojas [mailto:JRojas at tnco-inc.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 08:56:34 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:56:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BC@TAPPEEXCH01> One of the coolest features about ADO is that you can call stored procedures just like built-in methods: With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_DeleteRAs RANum End With If you want to open up a recordset based off of a stored procedure, you can do the following: Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = New Recordset With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_GetCustomerList MyAcctNo, rs End With -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? There are other ways, in my opinion this is the best though, except for the breaking out of the creation of the paramter and asigning it in another line, you can set the value of the paramter when you create it. .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25, RANum) -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Joe Rojas [mailto:JRojas at tnco-inc.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. 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From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 7 09:02:53 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:02:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82B8@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I agree fully with your comment about putting parentheses around an expression resulting in the compiler being forced to evaluate the expression as a different object - it's kind of like a Cast in C/C++, but this is not the same thing as the "wrong" syntax I was talking about. When you call Sub2 with it's argument in parentheses the compiler knows it's still just an argument to the sub. That's why it puts a space between the Sub name and the opening parenthesis. But when you call a *Function* using this syntax Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) the compiler does not put a space between the function name and the opening Parenthesis because it knows that it's dealing with a special variety of function call, one that does not use the return value. Or to put it another way, using Call tells the compiler to treat the routine called as a Sub not a Function, but it requires the use of parentheses. Also, in Access land at least, I do recall reading (though of course I cannot turn up the reference right now) that if you call a sub or function in an external module (a library mde for example) using just the routine's name then the whole module is loaded into memory, but if you use Call SomeSub in that case just the routine you use gets loaded into memory. Something like that anyway. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [SMTP:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > Nothing odd about it. And it's far from the "wrong" syntax. > > When you place parenthesis around an expression, you are telling the > compiler to evaluate the expression and pass its value, not its reference > to > the called routine. > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 strThis > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Private Sub Sub2(strArg As String) > > strArg = strArg & " How are you?" > > End Sub > > What result would you expect when you run Sub1? > Answer: Hello, World! How are you? > > This is because implicitly VB(A) passes arguments by reference (a pointer > to > a memory location) instead of by value (a copy of the memory location's > contents). > > Now... > changing the calling syntax slightly: > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 (strThis) 'You could also use Call Sub2((strThis)) > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Your are the compiler evaluates the expression, and passes its value to > Sub2. > Your result is Hello, World!. > > BTW, the same result can be achieved by using the ByVal keyword in your > argument definition > i.e. Private Sub Sub2(ByVal strArg As String) > > I follow this practice religously in all of my code, to avoid accidentally > overwriting the calling routine's variable contents. Many developers > don't > bother. Don't know why. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > > > >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with > only > one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << > > I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never > taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the > "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no > return > value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, > I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) > > > > Mark > > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 7 09:04:20 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:04:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FS object Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82B9@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Drew, If you wouldn't mind I'd like to take a peek at your code too. Thanks, Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > Yes, please send it. Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:01 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FS object > > > Um ya, CDO requires a mail server, but what do you think Outlook uses to > send mail? Magic? LOL. > > CDO is the core of MAPI. You can use MAPI, but if you know how to use > CDO, > it's a little more flexible. > > I sent Francisco a VB program, off list that displays the file folder > sizes > of the .pst files you use in Outlook. Does exchange folders too. It all > uses CDO. If you want, I'd be more then happy to send that to you > offlist. > > Drew > From pedro at plex.nl Fri May 7 09:02:34 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:02:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access Message-ID: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> Hello group, for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client server that is present in Reflection emulation software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has changed in the Vba code with the transfer. I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this behaviour before? Pedro Janssen Cytologist From j.frederick at att.net Fri May 7 09:11:30 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:11:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What we call the "bubble book" has code to do this. I do it to load up-to-date versions of forms mdbs and transfer control to them. Basically, the code is: Call Shell(stAppName,1) DoCmd.Quit -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. My current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying to avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are technically in another department and on-loan to us. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Hi Mark > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like ShellExecuteA > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered extension, > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 ' Wait forever. Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF ' The state of the specified object is signaled. Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 ' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hHandle As Long, _ ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ ByVal hObject As Long) _ As Long ' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following occurs: ' - The specified object is in the signaled state. ' - The time-out interval elapses. ' ' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in milliseconds. ' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state is ' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s state ' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s time-out ' interval never elapses. ' ' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As a ' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. The ' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. ' ' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out ' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the process ' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with your ' processing. ' ' DOS Applications: ' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes ' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app that ' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". ' ' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, vbNormalFocus) Function ShellWait( _ ByVal strCommand As String) _ As Boolean Dim lngPid As Long Dim lngHnd As Long Dim lngReturn As Long Dim booSuccess As Boolean If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) If lngPid <> 0 Then ' Get a handle to the shelled process. lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the handle. If lngHnd <> 0 Then lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) CloseHandle (lngHnd) booSuccess = True End If MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" End If End If ShellWait = booSuccess End Function Beware of line breaks. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From j.frederick at att.net Fri May 7 09:15:07 2004 From: j.frederick at att.net (John Frederick) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:15:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> Message-ID: This doesn't sound like an FTP problem. Either the code creating the txt file is leaving out column delimiters or the CRLF or your import spec is looking for different delimiters. Try opening the txt file using Notepad to see what it looks like. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Pedro Janssen Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:03 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access Hello group, for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client server that is present in Reflection emulation software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has changed in the Vba code with the transfer. I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this behaviour before? Pedro Janssen Cytologist -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 09:15:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> References: <003f01c4343c$18687ec0$fcc581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <3423698456.20040507161552@cactus.dk> Hi Pedro Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. /gustav > Hello group, > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client server that is present in Reflection emulation > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this behaviour before? > Pedro Janssen > Cytologist From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 09:20:38 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:20:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Report Is Landscape But Printing Portrait Message-ID: <31356570.1083939638798.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, We have Windows XP desktops along with Office XP, I have two reports that when I designed them I set the page setup to Landscape and as you would expect when you open them they are displayed as Landscape. However when you choose to print them (by clicking the printer icon) they print out as Portrait!!!!!!!!!!!. Has anyone else ever encountered this problem, if so can someone please give me the answer, as these reports are required by the end of today (a typical Friday) .. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri May 7 09:22:28 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:22:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c4343e$bd4c08b0$6401a8c0@COA3> ? By "no user intervention", then you are linking before distribution? If you are setting the links, then, in Linked Table Manager, browse to the BE by first going to Network Neighborhood, then find the server\share\folder. Then, your FE will have UNC links. If the user is going to select the BE, then you will need the re-linking code, plus the API call to MPR.dll as suggested earlier, to convert the mapped drive to UNC ... You should probably use API for CommonDialog for this method as well, to avoid ocx issues. Hth Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have existing relinking code already in place...I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter mappings, I get an error. What I was looking for was an approach that (1)mimics published relinking code, such as http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, (2)forces UNC naming, yet (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? /gustav > Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, > but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I > would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not > comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Fri May 7 09:26:18 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:26:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] List Queries Message-ID: Just do a query on MSysObjects table SELECT MSysObjects.Type, MSysObjects.Name FROM MSysObjects WHERE (((MSysObjects.Type)=5)) ORDER BY MSysObjects.Name; Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] List Queries >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:19:46 +0200 (CEST) > >To all, >Gone totally brain dead, I want to print a list of all my queries in a >database (500+) I only want the names and Documenter don't cater for this. >So has anyone got any sample code for the QueryDef object that I could >probably get a list that way ? >Thanks in advance >Paul > >-- > >Whatever you Wanadoo: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > >This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: >http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Fri May 7 09:31:32 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:31:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report Is Landscape But Printing Portrait Message-ID: Paul, I'm not aware of this problem in XP, but in Access 2000, the answer was to turn off Auto Correct in Access, and make sure you have up-to-date service packs installed. You might try these and see if it helps. Steve -----Paul Hartland's Original Message----- To all, We have Windows XP desktops along with Office XP, I have two reports that when I designed them I set the page setup to Landscape and as you would expect when you open them they are displayed as Landscape. However when you choose to print them (by clicking the printer icon) they print out as Portrait!!!!!!!!!!!. Has anyone else ever encountered this problem, if so can someone please give me the answer, as these reports are required by the end of today (a typical Friday)..... Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 09:32:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:32:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8224678876.20040507163212@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I > need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table > manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would >> like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable >> with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. From garykjos at hotmail.com Fri May 7 09:42:01 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:42:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access Message-ID: Hi Pedro, Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a transfer TO the Unix world though. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: Gustav Brock >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > >Hi Pedro > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > >/gustav > > > > Hello group, > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our hospital >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP client >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp server >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system and >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in unix >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist anymore. Al >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this >behaviour before? > > > Pedro Janssen > > Cytologist > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 09:44:59 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:44:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BD@TAPPEEXCH01> You could also call the function just like a Sub. SeeDateInfo True, 1 Just wanted to clarify the confusion of parenthesis usage for others who thought that there was some special rule for single argument functions. In actuality, the parentheses serve a completely different purpose, and have nothing to do with the calling syntax. And for the ultimate in code obfuscation, you could also call your function as SeeDateInfo (2 > 1), (2 - 1) Never heard about the external module rule with the Call statement. Interesting. I will have to look into that. -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function I agree fully with your comment about putting parentheses around an expression resulting in the compiler being forced to evaluate the expression as a different object - it's kind of like a Cast in C/C++, but this is not the same thing as the "wrong" syntax I was talking about. When you call Sub2 with it's argument in parentheses the compiler knows it's still just an argument to the sub. That's why it puts a space between the Sub name and the opening parenthesis. But when you call a *Function* using this syntax Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) the compiler does not put a space between the function name and the opening Parenthesis because it knows that it's dealing with a special variety of function call, one that does not use the return value. Or to put it another way, using Call tells the compiler to treat the routine called as a Sub not a Function, but it requires the use of parentheses. Also, in Access land at least, I do recall reading (though of course I cannot turn up the reference right now) that if you call a sub or function in an external module (a library mde for example) using just the routine's name then the whole module is loaded into memory, but if you use Call SomeSub in that case just the routine you use gets loaded into memory. Something like that anyway. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [SMTP:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > Nothing odd about it. And it's far from the "wrong" syntax. > > When you place parenthesis around an expression, you are telling the > compiler to evaluate the expression and pass its value, not its reference > to > the called routine. > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 strThis > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Private Sub Sub2(strArg As String) > > strArg = strArg & " How are you?" > > End Sub > > What result would you expect when you run Sub1? > Answer: Hello, World! How are you? > > This is because implicitly VB(A) passes arguments by reference (a pointer > to > a memory location) instead of by value (a copy of the memory location's > contents). > > Now... > changing the calling syntax slightly: > > Private Sub Sub1() > > Dim strThis As String > > strThis = "Hello, World!" > Sub2 (strThis) 'You could also use Call Sub2((strThis)) > Debug.Print strThis > > End Sub > > Your are the compiler evaluates the expression, and passes its value to > Sub2. > Your result is Hello, World!. > > BTW, the same result can be achieved by using the ByVal keyword in your > argument definition > i.e. Private Sub Sub2(ByVal strArg As String) > > I follow this practice religously in all of my code, to avoid accidentally > overwriting the calling routine's variable contents. Many developers > don't > bother. Don't know why. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > > > >> Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with > only > one argument using the "wrong" syntax. << > > I guess everyone learns the syntax in a different manner. I was never > taught that it was "wrong". I was taught from the standpoint that the > "Call" statement was optional if only one argument was passed and no > return > value was needed. Otherwise, "Call" was required. Funny...looking back, > I'm guessing they considered it a "feature":) > > > > Mark > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 09:45:21 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:45:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I > need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table > manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would >> like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable >> with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri May 7 09:48:03 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:48:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CC0@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Ah! This is what I was looking for! Thanks for the info. Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my example below? Thanks! JR -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? One of the coolest features about ADO is that you can call stored procedures just like built-in methods: With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_DeleteRAs RANum End With If you want to open up a recordset based off of a stored procedure, you can do the following: Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = New Recordset With CurrentProject.Connection .sp_GetCustomerList MyAcctNo, rs End With -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? There are other ways, in my opinion this is the best though, except for the breaking out of the creation of the paramter and asigning it in another line, you can set the value of the paramter when you create it. .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25, RANum) -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Joe Rojas [mailto:JRojas at tnco-inc.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi All, I am working on an A2k ADP with a SS7 BE. When executing stored procedures, both with and without parameters, I create and ADO Command object to do this. For example, Set com = New ADODB.Command With com .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar, adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum .Execute End With Does A2K, when working with ADPs, have a more direct/better way of executing stored procedures from code or this the only/best way to do this? Thanks, JR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 7 09:49:41 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:49:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Reports Printing Portrait When Set To Landscape Message-ID: <5713199.1083941381471.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, Don?t know why I tried this but I did ..I have just designed two new reports that are required by the end of today, they display as landscape and when you print them using the Printer icon they print as portrait, however if you use File/Print they print as landscape. I tried turning off Auto Correct but that didn?t help unfortunately, but thank you for the suggestion anyway. Has anyone any ideas on what?s going on here ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From pharold at proftesting.com Fri May 7 09:55:43 2004 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry Harold) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:55:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> I've had files from *nix machines where I had to open with something like WordPad, make one edit and when the file is closed the cr/lf's are saved as windows ascii cr/lf's, then the file can be opened and imported. Perry Harold -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access Hi Pedro, Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a transfer TO the Unix world though. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: Gustav Brock >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > >Hi Pedro > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > >/gustav > > > > Hello group, > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our > > hospital >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP >client >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp > > server >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system >and >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in > > unix >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist >anymore. Al >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this >behaviour before? > > > Pedro Janssen > > Cytologist > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri May 7 09:57:19 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:57:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c43443$9b41f220$6401a8c0@COA3> Linked Tabler Manager *WILL* show, and use, UNC if you go to Network Neighborhood first. It will NOT convert a mapped drive automatically. Can't say anything about your code w/o seeing it. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need > to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager > appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I >> would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not >> comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 09:58:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:58:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? In-Reply-To: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CC0@mercury.tnco-inc.com> References: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059CC0@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: <726266409.20040507165840@cactus.dk> Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? From marcus at tsstech.com Fri May 7 10:11:30 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:11:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: Cut and paste from a web page (needs some editing/rework)... Option Explicit Private Declare Function WNetGetConnection Lib _ "mpr.dll" Alias "WNetGetConnectionA" (ByVal _ lpszLocalName As String, ByVal _ lpszRemoteName As String, cbRemoteName As _ Long) As Long Private Const NO_ERROR = 0 Private Const ERROR_BAD_DEVICE = 1200& Private Const ERROR_NOT_CONNECTED = 2250& Private Const ERROR_MORE_DATA = 234 Private Const ERROR_CONNECTION_UNAVAIL = 1201& Private Const ERROR_NO_NETWORK = 1222& Private Const ERROR_EXTENDED_ERROR = 1208& Private Const ERROR_NO_NET_OR_BAD_PATH = 1203& Private Sub Form_Click() Dim d As Integer Dim sRet As String Dim Msg As String For d = Asc("C") To Asc("Z") sRet = DriveLetterToUNC(Chr(d)) If Len(sRet) Then Msg = Msg & Chr(d) & ": --> " _ & sRet & vbCrLf End If Next d MsgBox Msg, , "Mapped Drives..." End Sub Private Function DriveLetterToUNC(ByVal _ DriveLetter As String) As String Dim nRet As Long Dim Drv As String Dim Buffer As String Dim BufLen As Long Const MAX_PATH = 260 If Len(DriveLetter) Then ' massage input string and create buffer Drv = UCase(Left(DriveLetter, 1)) & ":" Buffer = Space(MAX_PATH) BufLen = Len(Buffer) ' attempt to get UNC info nRet = WNetGetConnection(Drv, Buffer, _ BufLen) If nRet = ERROR_MORE_DATA Then ' increase buffer and call again Buffer = Space(BufLen) nRet = WNetGetConnection(Drv, _ Buffer, BufLen) End If If nRet = NO_ERROR Then ' return UNC name by trimming at ' first null DriveLetterToUNC = Left(Buffer, _ InStr(Buffer, vbNullChar) - 1) Else ' optionally output debugging info... Select Case nRet Case ERROR_BAD_DEVICE Debug.Print Drv; " --> "; Debug.Print "The specified " & _ "device name is invalid." Case ERROR_NOT_CONNECTED Debug.Print Drv; " --> "; Debug.Print "This network " & _ "connection does not exist." Case ERROR_CONNECTION_UNAVAIL Debug.Print Drv; ' --> "; Debug.Print "The device is " & _ "not currently connected " & _ "but it is a remembered " & _ "connection." Case ERROR_NO_NETWORK Debug.Print "The network is " & _ "not present or not started." Case ERROR_MORE_DATA Debug.Print "Buffer is too " & _ "small!" Case ERROR_EXTENDED_ERROR Debug.Print "An error has " & _ "occurred, call " & _ "WNetGetLastError." Case Else Debug.Print "Unknown error " & _ "code: "; nRet End Select End If End If End Function Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I > need to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table > manager appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I would >> like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not comfortable >> with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 10:12:33 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:12:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412786@bross.quiznos.net> Also it doesn't rely on entering the parameters in any specific order. I mainly prefer that method for the same reason Gustav pointed out, it's much easier to read thus easier to debug when you have to or when you come back to the code a year down the road. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 10:17:04 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Message-ID: >> If you are setting the links, then, in Linked Table Manager, browse to the BE by first going to Network Neighborhood, then find the server\share\folder. Then, your FE will have UNC links. << I completely apologize for missing this...problem solved...thank you. In my haste, I didn't make the distinction between the "Network Neighborhood" portion of Windows Explorer and the drive mapping portion of Windows Explorer. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Developer [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Linked Tabler Manager *WILL* show, and use, UNC if you go to Network Neighborhood first. It will NOT convert a mapped drive automatically. Can't say anything about your code w/o seeing it. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path I was assuming that because the linked table manager visually shows the links with drive letters and NOT UNC naming then the links were actually hard coded to a particular drive letter. Are you saying that, by default, they are in fact utilizing UNC naming internally? Because, while perusing my modules I found one last instance where I'd neglected to use my constant (which uses UNC). Perhaps it was this last oversight that was giving me the "path not found" problem all along? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linked Tables - UNC Path Hi Mark > Lol. I apologize...I think you're making the assumption that I have > existing relinking code already in place... Indeed, yes! > I don't:( This my first time at a TRULY multi-user app. Maybe I need > to be walked through this, but the built-in linked table manager > appears to use drive-letter mappings, not UNC. Follow the advice of Steve. > If I deploy the front-end to a person who doesn't have the same drive-letter > mappings, I get an error. > What I was looking for was an approach that > (1)mimics published relinking code, such as > http://www.mvps.org/access/tables/tbl0009.htm, > (2)forces UNC naming, yet > (3)doesn't include possible user intervention. That would be an "automatic" relinker but it wouldn't know where to find your backend except if you supply the (UNC) path within the application. If you relink using UNC path before deployment, this step should not be needed at all. /gustav > Hmmm .. I'm not sure I can follow you here - if you have the UNC path > it doesn't matter wether the user has a drive mapped to it or not. You > just need to relink with the UNC path. But why relink if you have > deployed the app linked to the UNC path of your choice? > /gustav >> Actually my situation is just the opposite. I know the remote server name, >> but the user may have that drive mapped to any letter. Therefore I >> would like to be able to relink automatically using UNC. I am not >> comfortable with the user manually choosing the location of the BE. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sdhi at kalamazoo.net Fri May 7 10:21:48 2004 From: sdhi at kalamazoo.net (Sheri Hixson) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:21:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> Message-ID: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> Thanks! Can't wait to see this! Sheri Hixson - SWMRIC Tollfree: 888-223-8634 Email: mailto:swmrichelp at swmrichelp.com Web: http://www.swmrichelp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Perry Harold Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ftp and access I've had files from *nix machines where I had to open with something like WordPad, make one edit and when the file is closed the cr/lf's are saved as windows ascii cr/lf's, then the file can be opened and imported. Perry Harold -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access Hi Pedro, Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a transfer TO the Unix world though. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: Gustav Brock >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > >Hi Pedro > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > >/gustav > > > > Hello group, > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our > > hospital >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP >client >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp > > server >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system >and >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in > > unix >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist >anymore. Al >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this >behaviour before? > > > Pedro Janssen > > Cytologist > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From susanj at sgmeet.com Fri May 7 11:02:45 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:02:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word In-Reply-To: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> References: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040507105157.03c35850@mail.sgmeet.com> Please bear with me if I'm not using the correct terminology here... We use ASP to capture information on entered our web pages into SQL. We then use that information in preparing materials for distribution. We're looking into ways to also capture formatting that would be 'read' by Word once it's merged - ie. bold, italics, etc. I'm having trouble finding anything in Help in Word or Access that would change Susan to having the word bolded and the formatting information removed. Any thoughts? Am I missing something simple? Is this harder than I think it should be? Thanks so much! Susan From pedro at plex.nl Fri May 7 11:17:51 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:17:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access References: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <003d01c4344e$f6a098f0$fcc581d5@pedro> after opening in an texteditor, do an edit and saving it, i couldn't import it normally in access. I had to copy the data in an empty texteditor file and then save it as textfile before i could import it. The problem is that when opening the file in unix the text is in collumns. after the ftp transfer the text isn't anymore. The strange thing is that nothing changed in the way of handeling these files, and suddenly the problem occurs. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Hixson" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] ftp and access > Thanks! Can't wait to see this! > > Sheri Hixson - SWMRIC > Tollfree: 888-223-8634 > Email: mailto:swmrichelp at swmrichelp.com > Web: http://www.swmrichelp.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Perry Harold > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:56 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] ftp and access > > > I've had files from *nix machines where I had to open with something like > WordPad, make one edit and when the file is closed the cr/lf's are saved as > windows ascii cr/lf's, then the file can be opened and imported. > > Perry Harold > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:42 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access > > > Hi Pedro, > > Text type files in UNIX world are only Carriage Return - CR (Or is it only > Line Feed??) delimited where in Windows world they are CRLF delimited. > Sometimes in the transfer of files between the two worlds these special > characters get stripped off or added on by the FTP Process. You will have to > > play around with different options to see if you can get them to work right. > > I have also had the joy of finding that if I didn't name the file with a > .txt file extension it didn't transfer correctly as text format. That was a > transfer TO the Unix world though. > > Gary Kjos > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Gustav Brock > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ftp and access > >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:15:52 +0200 > > > >Hi Pedro > > > >Sounds like a problem with new lines (Carriage Return and/or Line > >Feed) - both should be present when the file is used in Windows. > > > >Check if the FTP client has some settings for these. > > > >/gustav > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > for some reports, i import txt-files in access with data of our > > > hospital > >unix system. These txt-files are made from the unix data with an FTP > >client > >server that is present in Reflection emulation > > > software for windows. I choose to make it txt files with an ftp > > > server > >because of the advantage of transporting the file to the windows system > >and > >making ASCII textfiles from them can be done in > > > one action (clicking a button with Vba code behind it). The file in > > > unix > >is in delimited space between the columns and normally after the ftp > >transfer these columns in the txt-file still exist, so > > > that i can use import -specs in access to import them. But suddenly > >after the ftp transfer, the columns in the txt-file don't exist > >anymore. Al > >the records are placed behind the other. Nothing has > > > changed in the Vba code with the transfer. > > > > > I know this isn't a ftp forum, but maybe anybody experienced this > >behaviour before? > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > > Cytologist > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Fri May 7 11:21:33 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:21:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney Message-ID: <002801c4344f$5fc519f0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Hi Group, If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney specializing in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been an advocate for developers that is a big plus. Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 7 11:41:11 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:41:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: I have not experienced this problem. Perhaps a call to Sleep API for 50 milliseconds? Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) Perhaps a DoEvents before/after the call to Sleep? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s17.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:59 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:04 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i47D5iQ04616;Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:44 -0500 >Received: from xcgmd812.northgrum.com >(xcgmd812.northgrum.com[155.104.240.108])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i47D5fQ04569for >; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:41 -0500 >Received: by xcgmd812 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:05:22 -0700 >Received: from xcgmd805.northgrum.com ([155.104.117.53]) >byxcgmd805.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service >Version 5.5.2653.13)id K31986ZD; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:04:44 -0700 >Received: from xcgva080 ([172.30.18.153]) by 155.104.117.53 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 06:04:43 -0700 >Received: from npeimc02.nns.com ([172.30.18.167]) by xcgva080 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:05:14 -0400 >Received: by npeimc02.nns.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:13 -0400 >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+soD+00CmSqloiEfVNPHZPEbvx0NF0JIN1E= >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 13:06:04.0932 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0DE5BC40:01C43434] > >Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? >This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and >return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to >shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. >All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. >My >current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK >button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying >to >avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in >testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to >departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are >technically in another department and on-loan to us. > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit > > >Hi Mark > > > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like >ShellExecuteA > > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered >extension, > > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( > >It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. >But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: > > > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 > >' Wait forever. >Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF >' The state of the specified object is signaled. >Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 >' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. >Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 > >Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ > ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hObject As Long) _ > As Long > >' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following >occurs: >' - The specified object is in the signaled state. >' - The time-out interval elapses. >' >' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in >milliseconds. >' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state >is >' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s >state >' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s >time-out >' interval never elapses. >' >' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As >a >' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. >The >' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. >' >' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out >' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the >process >' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with >your >' processing. >' >' DOS Applications: >' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes >' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app >that >' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". >' >' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, >vbNormalFocus) > >Function ShellWait( _ > ByVal strCommand As String) _ > As Boolean > > Dim lngPid As Long > Dim lngHnd As Long > Dim lngReturn As Long > Dim booSuccess As Boolean > > If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then > lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) > If lngPid <> 0 Then > ' Get a handle to the shelled process. > lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) > ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the >handle. > If lngHnd <> 0 Then > lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) > CloseHandle (lngHnd) > booSuccess = True > End If > MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" > End If > End If > > ShellWait = booSuccess > >End Function > > > >Beware of line breaks. > >/gustav > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Fri May 7 11:48:57 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:48:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: Replace the 'form' portion with your form's name, and the 'field' portion with your textbox's name. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:24 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 11:57:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:57:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ftp and access In-Reply-To: <003d01c4344e$f6a098f0$fcc581d5@pedro> References: <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> <003d01c4344e$f6a098f0$fcc581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <12933396311.20040507185730@cactus.dk> Hi Pedro > after opening in an texteditor, do an edit and saving it, i couldn't import > it normally in access. I had to copy the data in an empty texteditor file > and then save it as textfile before i could import it. > The problem is that when opening the file in unix the text is in collumns. > after the ftp transfer the text isn't anymore. > The strange thing is that nothing changed in the way of handeling these > files, and suddenly the problem occurs. Here is one way to handle this (in code): http://www.freevbcode.com/ShowCode.asp?ID=3632 Or use, say, EditPad: http://www.editpadlite.com/editpadlite.html /gustav From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri May 7 11:58:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:58:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney References: <002801c4344f$5fc519f0$6801a8c0@jefferson> Message-ID: <00e701c43454$96836ff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jennifer: Peter Karlen did the work on my trademark many years ago. His contact info is at the bottom of the page: http://www.sacforart.com/rights.html although the area code may now be 858. You might also consult with David Himelstein. http://www.himels-computer-law.com/ HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Gross" To: "AccessD List" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > Hi Group, > > If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney specializing > in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been an > advocate for developers that is a big plus. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jennifer Gross > databasics > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > www.databasicsdesign.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 12:02:12 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:02:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: This was to be my approach exactly, but, while beta-testing a form-launched deployment (as opposed to an AutoExec macro), users acknowledged that the feedback was welcome. It was suggested that the "silent install" might cause concern for users that noticed both processes activating without any kind of indication as to why. Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit I have not experienced this problem. Perhaps a call to Sleep API for 50 milliseconds? Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) Perhaps a DoEvents before/after the call to Sleep? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s17.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:59 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:04 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i47D5iQ04616;Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:44 -0500 >Received: from xcgmd812.northgrum.com >(xcgmd812.northgrum.com[155.104.240.108])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i47D5fQ04569for >; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:41 -0500 >Received: by xcgmd812 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:05:22 -0700 >Received: from xcgmd805.northgrum.com ([155.104.117.53]) >byxcgmd805.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service >Version 5.5.2653.13)id K31986ZD; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:04:44 -0700 >Received: from xcgva080 ([172.30.18.153]) by 155.104.117.53 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 06:04:43 -0700 >Received: from npeimc02.nns.com ([172.30.18.167]) by xcgva080 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:05:14 -0400 >Received: by npeimc02.nns.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:13 -0400 >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+soD+00CmSqloiEfVNPHZPEbvx0NF0JIN1E= >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 13:06:04.0932 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0DE5BC40:01C43434] > >Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? >This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and >return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to >shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. >All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. >My >current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK >button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying >to >avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in >testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to >departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are >technically in another department and on-loan to us. > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit > > >Hi Mark > > > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like >ShellExecuteA > > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered >extension, > > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( > >It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. >But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: > > > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 > >' Wait forever. >Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF >' The state of the specified object is signaled. >Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 >' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. >Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 > >Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ > ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hObject As Long) _ > As Long > >' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following >occurs: >' - The specified object is in the signaled state. >' - The time-out interval elapses. >' >' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in >milliseconds. >' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state >is >' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s >state >' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s >time-out >' interval never elapses. >' >' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As >a >' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. >The >' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. >' >' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out >' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the >process >' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with >your >' processing. >' >' DOS Applications: >' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes >' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app >that >' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". >' >' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, >vbNormalFocus) > >Function ShellWait( _ > ByVal strCommand As String) _ > As Boolean > > Dim lngPid As Long > Dim lngHnd As Long > Dim lngReturn As Long > Dim booSuccess As Boolean > > If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then > lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) > If lngPid <> 0 Then > ' Get a handle to the shelled process. > lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) > ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the >handle. > If lngHnd <> 0 Then > lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) > CloseHandle (lngHnd) > booSuccess = True > End If > MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" > End If > End If > > ShellWait = booSuccess > >End Function > > > >Beware of line breaks. > >/gustav > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 12:02:27 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:02:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412788@bross.quiznos.net> I built something similar once and utilized the Do Events within the Error Handling and it fixed the issue. I did not think to try a sleep API. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: J|rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit I have not experienced this problem. Perhaps a call to Sleep API for 50 milliseconds? Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) Perhaps a DoEvents before/after the call to Sleep? Ciao Jurgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s17.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:59 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 7 May 2004 >06:06:04 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i47D5iQ04616;Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:44 -0500 >Received: from xcgmd812.northgrum.com >(xcgmd812.northgrum.com[155.104.240.108])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i47D5fQ04569for >; Fri, 7 May 2004 08:05:41 -0500 >Received: by xcgmd812 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:05:22 -0700 >Received: from xcgmd805.northgrum.com ([155.104.117.53]) >byxcgmd805.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange InternetMail Service >Version 5.5.2653.13)id K31986ZD; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:04:44 -0700 >Received: from xcgva080 ([172.30.18.153]) by 155.104.117.53 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 06:04:43 -0700 >Received: from npeimc02.nns.com ([172.30.18.167]) by xcgva080 with >InterScanMessaging Security Suite; Fri, 07 May 2004 09:05:14 -0400 >Received: by npeimc02.nns.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)id >; Fri, 7 May 2004 09:05:13 -0400 >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+soD+00CmSqloiEfVNPHZPEbvx0NF0JIN1E= >Message-ID: >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 13:06:04.0932 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0DE5BC40:01C43434] > >Maybe the problem is I'm trying to use the wrong method for my purposes? >This is not a situation where I need to shell out, perform a task, and >return. My problem is that I'm using a .mdb as a launcher app. I want to >shell out to launch another .mdb and immediately close the launcher app. >All of my code works...except if I try to run it from an AutoExec macro. >My >current work-around is to utilize a splash screen with a single OK >button...this works, but adds a few unnecessary seconds that I was trying >to >avoid. Ironically, it was because of this work-around that I found, in >testing, that 2-3% of the users drive mappings are not configured to >departmental standards....well actually they are, it's just that they are >technically in another department and on-loan to us. > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:24 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ShellExecute / Application.Quit > > >Hi Mark > > > The different versions of ShellWait utilize the API call CreateProcessA > > instead of ShellExecuteA. I can't seem to get CreateProcessA to open > > anything...yet no errors are returned. Is CreateProcessA like >ShellExecuteA > > in that as long as I pass a valid path/filename with a registered >extension, > > it will automagically do its thing? ...because it isn't:( > >It's hard to tell why it fails without knowing more. >But here's another approach - I can't remember where I got it: > > > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Private Const SYNCHRONIZE = &H100000 > >' Wait forever. >Private Const INFINITE = &HFFFF >' The state of the specified object is signaled. >Private Const WAIT_OBJECT_0 = 0 >' The time-out interval elapsed and the object?s state is nonsignaled. >Private Const WAIT_TIMEOUT = &H102 > >Private Declare Function OpenProcess Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal dwDesiredAccess As Long, _ > ByVal bInheritHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwProcessId As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function WaitForSingleObject Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hHandle As Long, _ > ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) _ > As Long > >Private Declare Function CloseHandle Lib "kernel32" ( _ > ByVal hObject As Long) _ > As Long > >' The WaitForSingleObject function returns when one of the following >occurs: >' - The specified object is in the signaled state. >' - The time-out interval elapses. >' >' The dwMilliseconds parameter specifies the time-out interval, in >milliseconds. >' The function returns if the interval elapses, even if the object?s state >is >' nonsignaled. If dwMilliseconds is zero, the function tests the object?s >state >' and returns immediately. If dwMilliseconds is INFINITE, the function?s >time-out >' interval never elapses. >' >' This example waits an INFINITE amount of time for the process to end. As >a >' result this process will be frozen until the shelled process terminates. >The >' down side is that if the shelled process hangs, so will this one. >' >' A better approach is to wait a specific amount of time. Once the time-out >' interval expires, test the return value. If it is WAIT_TIMEOUT, the >process >' is still not signaled. Then you can either wait again or continue with >your >' processing. >' >' DOS Applications: >' Waiting for a DOS application is tricky because the DOS window never goes >' away when the application is done. To get around this, prefix the app >that >' you are shelling to with "command.com /c". >' >' For example: lngPid = Shell("command.com /c " & strCommand.Text, >vbNormalFocus) > >Function ShellWait( _ > ByVal strCommand As String) _ > As Boolean > > Dim lngPid As Long > Dim lngHnd As Long > Dim lngReturn As Long > Dim booSuccess As Boolean > > If Len(Trim$(strCommand)) > 0 Then > lngPid = Shell(strCommand, vbNormalFocus) > If lngPid <> 0 Then > ' Get a handle to the shelled process. > lngHnd = OpenProcess(SYNCHRONIZE, 0, lngPid) > ' If successful, wait for the application to end and close the >handle. > If lngHnd <> 0 Then > lngReturn = WaitForSingleObject(lngHnd, INFINITE) > CloseHandle (lngHnd) > booSuccess = True > End If > MsgBox "Just terminated.", vbInformation, "Shelled Application" > End If > End If > > ShellWait = booSuccess > >End Function > > > >Beware of line breaks. > >/gustav > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 7 12:12:01 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:12:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <409BC361.7000405@shaw.ca> I didn't know this but I am afraid you are hooped. You cannot use ADO to read a password-protected Excel workbook. The reason is that protecting it with a password actually encrypts the workbook on disk and ADO has no way of decrypting it. XL2000: "Could Not Decrypt File" Error with Password Protected File http://support.microsoft.com/?KBID=211378 I guess the only way to get at this is running application.excel and using a password from there to get at the data. So you would need a copy of excel on the running macine. Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi all > >If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >error above. >The wizard can not accept a password. > >I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with > > PWD=mypassword; > >so it becomes > > Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls > >but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >error. > >Is this possible? > >/gustav > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 12:25:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 19:25:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking Excel with password. Error 3161: Cannot decrypt file In-Reply-To: <409BC361.7000405@shaw.ca> References: <16034059184.20040506180257@cactus.dk> <409BC361.7000405@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <65800511.20040507192538@cactus.dk> Hi Marty Yes, that's my conclusion as well. /gustav > I didn't know this but I am afraid you are hooped. > You cannot use ADO to read a password-protected Excel workbook. > The reason is that protecting it with a password actually encrypts the > workbook on disk > and ADO has no way of decrypting it. > XL2000: "Could Not Decrypt File" Error with Password Protected File > http://support.microsoft.com/?KBID=211378 > I guess the only way to get at this is running application.excel and > using a password from there > to get at the data. > So you would need a copy of excel on the running macine. > Gustav Brock wrote: >>Hi all >> >>If you try to link/attach an Excel range where the workbook is >>password protected (Save as .. with password), you'll receive the >>error above. >>The wizard can not accept a password. >> >>I tried, in code, to modify the connect string with >> >> PWD=mypassword; >> >>so it becomes >> >> Excel 5.0;HDR=YES;IMEX=2;PWD=mypassword;DATABASE=c:\temp\Test.xls >> >>but that is not recognized when I try to do a RefreshLink - same >>error. >> >>Is this possible? From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 12:34:13 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:34:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BE@TAPPEEXCH01> Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. Does ANYONE use the method syntax for executing stored procedures? I realize it's a newer ADO feature but I've found it to be extremely useful in reducing the volume of ADO code in my projects. -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Also it doesn't rely on entering the parameters in any specific order. I mainly prefer that method for the same reason Gustav pointed out, it's much easier to read thus easier to debug when you have to or when you come back to the code a year down the road. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com Fri May 7 12:56:13 2004 From: MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com (Mark Boyd) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:56:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Rounding Currency Message-ID: A user has asked me to remove the "cents" from several currency fields. Instead of reformatting the fields, I'd like to round the amounts to the nearest dollar. Is there a query I can run that will round in this manner? Thanks, Mark Boyd Sr. Systems Analyst McBee Associates, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 13:11:51 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:11:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BE@TAPPEEXCH01> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BE@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <1823573488.20040507201151@cactus.dk> Hi Brett > Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that > 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. /gustav From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 13:13:11 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:13:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end. Message-ID: Microsoft recommends this procedure. Any common practices that deviate from this method? 1. Create an empty form. 2. Declare a recordset variable in the global declarations section. 3.In the OnOpen event, open a recordset against any table. 4. In the OnClose event, which will activate when the MDB is closed, close the recordset and set the variable to nothing. 5. Ensure that you always open this form when opening the MDB. You will likely want to have this form hidden when you open the file. Mark From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 7 13:13:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:13:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word References: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> <6.0.1.1.2.20040507105157.03c35850@mail.sgmeet.com> Message-ID: <409BD1BC.8050500@shaw.ca> It can get quite complex if you mean some external client will cut and pastes from a word document into a text box on an asp page. This control will allow you to save directly to a PDF or .Doc format on the server. You might want to look at ActiveX Server controls, this assumes you can install them on your website and your web hosting agreement allows it I would use an ASP component like TX Text Control ActiveX Server http://www.textcontrol.com/products/activex_server/?TXTEXTCONTROL=ab8916eac9588203add96dd0ecdf0a46 This a mid range price control and is about $2500 US One item of complexity is checking for SQL Injection attacks. This isn't the only approach. I may be misreading what you are trying to do. Susan Jones wrote: > Please bear with me if I'm not using the correct terminology here... > > We use ASP to capture information on entered our web pages into SQL. > We then use that information in preparing materials for distribution. > We're looking into ways to also capture formatting that would be > 'read' by Word once it's merged - ie. bold, italics, etc. > > I'm having trouble finding anything in Help in Word or Access that > would change Susan to having the word bolded and the formatting > information removed. > > Any thoughts? Am I missing something simple? Is this harder than I > think it should be? > > Thanks so much! > Susan > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri May 7 13:20:53 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:20:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BF@TAPPEEXCH01> > That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour > of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. Huh?! Not counting the With blocks, He said : 1 Set com = New ADODB.Command With com 2 .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection 3 .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" 4 .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc 5 .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25) 6 .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum 7 .Execute End With I said: With CurrentProject.Connection 1 .sp_DeleteRAs RANum End With Thus, 7 vs. 1 (or 9 vs. 3 with the blocks), and that doesn't count the code you need to dim the command object and destroy it afterwards. I'm sorry, who's been been drinking here? -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Brett > Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that > 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From CMackin at Quiznos.com Fri May 7 13:22:45 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:22:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD941278A@bross.quiznos.net> The 7 lines gives you more information, that's why it's preferable in my mind. Specifically I like to see exactly what the Parameter names are, their data type, the Input/Output designation and the value being passed to it. For a 1 parameter stored procedure it is not very useful, but when you start getting more and more parameters in there it keeps things much cleaner. I also don't want my code to be dependent on matching the same order the parameters are listed in the Stored Procedure and in my call to it. One less thing to worry about. I am unaware of any performance benefits of one over the other and advocate the "longer" method purely out of readability and personal preferences. It's the same reason that I write: Dim strSample as String instead of the short version: Dim strSample$ -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. Does ANYONE use the method syntax for executing stored procedures? I realize it's a newer ADO feature but I've found it to be extremely useful in reducing the volume of ADO code in my projects. -----Original Message----- From: Mackin, Christopher [mailto:CMackin at quiznos.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Also it doesn't rely on entering the parameters in any specific order. I mainly prefer that method for the same reason Gustav pointed out, it's much easier to read thus easier to debug when you have to or when you come back to the code a year down the road. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? Hi Joe Yours is easier to read. /gustav > Does anyone have an argument for not using this method as oppose to my > example below? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jgross at databasicsdesign.com Fri May 7 13:25:51 2004 From: jgross at databasicsdesign.com (Jennifer Gross) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:25:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney In-Reply-To: <00e701c43454$96836ff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003601c43460$bcf8e730$6801a8c0@jefferson> Thanks Rocky, There is a lot of good information on the Himelstein web site. I am feeling more confident about my position as the developer. It doesn't matter that they paid me for my time, I own my code. Jennifer Gross databasics + 01 (805) 480-1921 www.databasicsdesign.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney Jennifer: Peter Karlen did the work on my trademark many years ago. His contact info is at the bottom of the page: http://www.sacforart.com/rights.html although the area code may now be 858. You might also consult with David Himelstein. http://www.himels-computer-law.com/ HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Gross" To: "AccessD List" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > Hi Group, > > If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney specializing > in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been an > advocate for developers that is a big plus. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jennifer Gross > databasics > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > www.databasicsdesign.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 13:28:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:28:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BF@TAPPEEXCH01> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5BF@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <1984543943.20040507202801@cactus.dk> Hi Brett Oops, missed that. I understood the choice was .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25) .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum versus .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25, RANum) Need some beer. /gustav >> That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour >> of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. > Huh?! Not counting the With blocks, > He said : > 1 Set com = New ADODB.Command > With com > 2 .ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection > 3 .CommandText = "dbo.sp_DeleteRAs" > 4 .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > 5 .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@RANum", adVarChar,adParamInput, 25) > 6 .Parameters("@RANum") = RANum > 7 .Execute > End With > I said: > With CurrentProject.Connection > 1 .sp_DeleteRAs RANum > End With > Thus, 7 vs. 1 (or 9 vs. 3 with the blocks), and that doesn't count the code > you need to dim the command object and destroy it afterwards. > I'm sorry, who's been been drinking here? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Executing Stored Procedures in a A2K ADP? > Hi Brett >> Hmm... This really is the first time I've heard multiple people saying that >> 7 lines of code were easier to read than 1. > That's because you can't count while drinking beer at this Happy Hour > of Friday; it's 9 towards 8 - or at least 7 towards 6. > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 13:32:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:32:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Rounding Currency In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1864809866.20040507203227@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > A user has asked me to remove the "cents" from several currency fields. > Instead of reformatting the fields, I'd like to round the amounts to the > nearest dollar. Is there a query I can run that will round in this > manner? The quick and dirty (Access 2000+) is Round([Amount], 0) It's a little buggy. If you need serious rounding, visit: http://www.xbeat.net/vbspeed/c_Round.htm and browse for Round15. /gustav From joeget at vgernet.net Fri May 7 13:47:21 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:47:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] access mdb to web base application. Message-ID: <000f01c43463$bf0614f0$13c2f63f@Desktop> Could someone tell me what application(s) i would need to go from a access mdb file to a web based application? Thanks John From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 7 13:58:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:58:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end . Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227BA0@main2.marlow.com> When I create a 'link' form, I don't even bother with code (one of the few things I like doing without code). I just link a table, then create an autoform to that table. Then in my startup process, I open that form hidden. Linking done. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:13 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end. Microsoft recommends this procedure. Any common practices that deviate from this method? 1. Create an empty form. 2. Declare a recordset variable in the global declarations section. 3.In the OnOpen event, open a recordset against any table. 4. In the OnClose event, which will activate when the MDB is closed, close the recordset and set the variable to nothing. 5. Ensure that you always open this form when opening the MDB. You will likely want to have this form hidden when you open the file. Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 7 13:59:26 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:59:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function Message-ID: Thanks for the tip on this. I hadn't know it worked this way. Using 'functions' over 'subs' is a habit that I obviously need to break. I think I get this from learning other lanquages, years ago, which used functions or procedures. They were mostly OOP. Thanks to everybody who donated their thoughts to this. As usual, I ask for help, and I not only get it, but I learn something along the way. Thanks again everybody!!! John W Clark >>> Lambert.Heenan at aig.com 5/6/2004 4:26:04 PM >>> Shame you did not quote the actual line of code that's giving the error, but I think I've worked it out anyway. You can "Call" a function in (at least) 3 ways 1/ x = FunctionName(parameters...) 2/ FunctionName parameters... and 3/ Call FunctionName(parameters...) Only the first one actually used the return value of the function, the other two are examples of using a function as a Sub. So if your code looks like this x = SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then it will run just fine and you'll get a return value in x, but if the code looks like this SeeDateInfo(True, 1) then you will get the compile error "Expected =" as you are not using the return value yet you are using the function call syntax. If you don't want the return value then call it like this Call SeeDateInfo(True, 1) or SeeDateInfo True, 1 Oddly enough, you do not get this error when you call a function with only one argument using the "wrong" syntax. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Problem adding a param. to a function > > OK...this is probably something boneheaded and simple, but I haven't > posted any problems in a while, and my head feels like it is going to > explode from behind my eye sockets, so please bare with me... > > I have been asked to do some alterations/additions to a program that I > wrote, a little over a year ago. What I am working on now is the simple > addition of a new report. I usually leave some 'reserved' buttons on my > Reports Menu because they always want more reports, so the buttons are > already there. > > On my reports menu, I have hidden fields to accomodate a couple of the > different reports. These fields become visible, depending on the report > chosen--I have one that uses 'Start Date' and an 'End Date' fields, and > another that uses a drop-down to choose an employee. These also each > have a cancel button, and a proceed button. After you cancel or proceed, > the main buttons, which were disabled, when one was chosen, are > re-enabled, and the used fields become invisible again. > > This report that I have added is also dependent on a starting and > ending date, so I used the same function to do the button magic (i.e. > disappear, reappear, setfocus, enable, etc.). However I needed an extra > IF statement to decipher which of two buttons was chosen. So I added the > if statement and added a parameter to go with it: > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean) > > has become > > Function SeeDateInfo(Mode As Boolean, Button As Integer) > > but when I change the function call to add another parameter, the help > tip comes up correctly--it tells me what it is looking for--but I get an > error: Compile Error ... Expected: = > > What in the hey am I doing wrong?! > > Thanks for the help...now and in the past! > > I gotta fly now to get my daughter's tooth yanked...arrrrghtt!!! > > btw...A97 > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 7 14:01:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:01:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] access mdb to web base application. Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227BA1@main2.marlow.com> Notepad? Actually, can you be a little more specific? To go to a web application, you have several options. PHP and ASP are probably the most popular. I personally prefer ASP on an IIS webserver. That allows me to create ActiveX .dll's in Visual Basic to handle the business logic interface to the database, then I use ASP to actually create the pages. As for ASP, I use Microsoft Scripting Editor, the version that comes with Front Page XP/2002. It has intellisence, and does autocomplete for not only VBScript code, but also for HTML tags. Pretty handy. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:47 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] access mdb to web base application. Could someone tell me what application(s) i would need to go from a access mdb file to a web based application? Thanks John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 14:02:39 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:02:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end . Message-ID: Good point. Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end . When I create a 'link' form, I don't even bother with code (one of the few things I like doing without code). I just link a table, then create an autoform to that table. Then in my startup process, I open that form hidden. Linking done. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:13 PM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Maintaining a persistent connection to the back end. Microsoft recommends this procedure. Any common practices that deviate from this method? 1. Create an empty form. 2. Declare a recordset variable in the global declarations section. 3.In the OnOpen event, open a recordset against any table. 4. In the OnClose event, which will activate when the MDB is closed, close the recordset and set the variable to nothing. 5. Ensure that you always open this form when opening the MDB. You will likely want to have this form hidden when you open the file. Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri May 7 14:10:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:10:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney References: <003601c43460$bcf8e730$6801a8c0@jefferson> Message-ID: <019d01c43466$e7467740$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jennifer: That's my understanding and I've looked into it pretty good. In the absence of a contract with your customer specifically transferring ownership of the work product, you retain ownership of the code and are granting your customer an implied license to use it. HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Gross" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > Thanks Rocky, > > There is a lot of good information on the Himelstein web site. I am > feeling more confident about my position as the developer. It doesn't > matter that they paid me for my time, I own my code. > > Jennifer Gross > databasics > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > www.databasicsdesign.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:59 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > > > Jennifer: > > Peter Karlen did the work on my trademark many years ago. His contact > info > is at the bottom of the page: > http://www.sacforart.com/rights.html > > although the area code may now be 858. > > You might also consult with David Himelstein. > > http://www.himels-computer-law.com/ > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Gross" > To: "AccessD List" > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:21 AM > Subject: [AccessD] OT: US Intellectual Property Attorney > > > > Hi Group, > > > > If anyone can refer me to an intellectual property attorney > specializing > > in software I would greatly appreciate it. If the attorney has been > an > > advocate for developers that is a big plus. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Jennifer Gross > > databasics > > + 01 (805) 480-1921 > > www.databasicsdesign.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From susanj at sgmeet.com Fri May 7 14:13:14 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:13:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word In-Reply-To: <409BD1BC.8050500@shaw.ca> References: <008a01c43443$5edd6f80$082da8c0@D58BT131> <004f01c43447$0438cc10$02fea8c0@Sheri> <6.0.1.1.2.20040507105157.03c35850@mail.sgmeet.com> <409BD1BC.8050500@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040507140552.03c6e8d8@mail.sgmeet.com> I'm printing information from the website right now. Let me try again to explain what we need to do. I think you might be on target with what we want ultimately. We need to allow users to enter a block of text with formatting (specifically scientific information - so think scientific names in italics, etc.). Once we have the information, we will need to have it display online and also prepare a final book, both of which includes the formatting. Currently, we are looking at a form that requires the user to enter HTML code within the text. If we go this route, how would we be able to use that information from the database to change the formatting from the HTML code to bold, italics, whatever once it's merged into Word? Besides getting it right in Word, I'm also concerned that the data would not be written to the database correctly in the first place. Susan At 01:13 PM 5/7/04, you wrote: >It can get quite complex if you mean some external client will cut and >pastes from a word document into a text box on an asp page. >This control will allow you to save directly to a PDF or .Doc format on >the server. >You might want to look at ActiveX Server controls, this assumes you can >install them on your website and your web hosting agreement allows it >I would use an ASP component like TX Text Control ActiveX Server >http://www.textcontrol.com/products/activex_server/?TXTEXTCONTROL=ab8916eac9588203add96dd0ecdf0a46 >This a mid range price control and is about $2500 US >One item of complexity is checking for SQL Injection attacks. >This isn't the only approach. I may be misreading what you are trying to do. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 7 14:27:15 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:27:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Wo rd Message-ID: >> requires the user to enter HTML code within the text << I'm probably way off on all this, but this doesn't seem right. Is formatting a requirement for both the online and hard copy publication? If so, you seem to be placing a lot of the burden on the content providers. If formatting is such an issue, my initial thought is that you would want to provide an .rtf(Notepad)-like ActiveX control. For those entries requiring a lot of formatting, users could spend as much time typing the tags as they do the content. Maybe Susan can provide some insight, but I thought detailed formatting requirements like scientific notation would be primarily a function of the publisher, not the author. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Jones [mailto:susanj at sgmeet.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word I'm printing information from the website right now. Let me try again to explain what we need to do. I think you might be on target with what we want ultimately. We need to allow users to enter a block of text with formatting (specifically scientific information - so think scientific names in italics, etc.). Once we have the information, we will need to have it display online and also prepare a final book, both of which includes the formatting. Currently, we are looking at a form that requires the user to enter HTML code within the text. If we go this route, how would we be able to use that information from the database to change the formatting from the HTML code to bold, italics, whatever once it's merged into Word? Besides getting it right in Word, I'm also concerned that the data would not be written to the database correctly in the first place. Susan At 01:13 PM 5/7/04, you wrote: >It can get quite complex if you mean some external client will cut and >pastes from a word document into a text box on an asp page. >This control will allow you to save directly to a PDF or .Doc format on >the server. >You might want to look at ActiveX Server controls, this assumes you can >install them on your website and your web hosting agreement allows it >I would use an ASP component like TX Text Control ActiveX Server >http://www.textcontrol.com/products/activex_server/?TXTEXTCONTROL=ab8916eac 9588203add96dd0ecdf0a46 >This a mid range price control and is about $2500 US >One item of complexity is checking for SQL Injection attacks. >This isn't the only approach. I may be misreading what you are trying to do. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com Fri May 7 14:34:11 2004 From: MarkBoyd at McBeeAssociates.com (Mark Boyd) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:34:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Rounding Currency Message-ID: Thanks Gustav. The Round function seemed to work perfectly. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Rounding Currency Hi Mark > A user has asked me to remove the "cents" from several currency fields. > Instead of reformatting the fields, I'd like to round the amounts to the > nearest dollar. Is there a query I can run that will round in this > manner? The quick and dirty (Access 2000+) is Round([Amount], 0) It's a little buggy. If you need serious rounding, visit: http://www.xbeat.net/vbspeed/c_Round.htm and browse for Round15. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From susanj at sgmeet.com Fri May 7 14:52:39 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:52:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] HTML formatting entered/imported and merged into Word In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040507143601.03c68800@mail.sgmeet.com> We feel the same way and we've convinced most of our clients that it's not worth the frustration either to the user or the publisher having to make the changes. There's never been a complaint that the formatting doesn't follow proper scientific notation from attendees. However, we have one client that refuses to accept this and claims it has to be done. So, now I'm stuck trying to make it work within our current system as much as possible. I'll ask about ActiveX controls. I wonder if that's where this is coming from in the first place. Thanks, Susan At 02:27 PM 5/7/04, you wrote: > >> requires the user to enter HTML code within the text << > >I'm probably way off on all this, but this doesn't seem right. Is >formatting a requirement for both the online and hard copy publication? If >so, you seem to be placing a lot of the burden on the content providers. If >formatting is such an issue, my initial thought is that you would want to >provide an .rtf(Notepad)-like ActiveX control. For those entries requiring >a lot of formatting, users could spend as much time typing the tags as they >do the content. Maybe Susan can provide some insight, but I thought >detailed formatting requirements like scientific notation would be primarily >a function of the publisher, not the author. > > >Mark From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Fri May 7 15:05:47 2004 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:05:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3F91@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Thanks Gustav that's what the problem was. Turned AutoCorrect off and the settings stay. What a weird problem. Thanks again, Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division Technical Support Analyst -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Jim and Mike I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of the report. Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. /gustav > Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be > configured to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is > different from the development station the report can become > disoriented and in some cases sends it's work to the default printer. > It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Everyone, > I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints > out different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set > to go to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any > changes in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset > themselves to go back to the default printer. > Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want > the label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and > correct the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 7 19:51:38 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:51:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Scott: Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. Setup a NAT (network address translation) service/server on the network and put all additional machines behind it with private IP addresses. Some machines (usually servers) may require IP addresses outside the NAT, and that is easily done. Alternatively, you could put all machines behind a Microsoft ISA server (which also functions as a NAT) and map the incoming requests to the appropriate server. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Expanding network IP addresses. Sorry about the OT nature of this message. I'm part of a 3 person IT department that is running out of IP address. We use static IP with a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Does anyone know of any easy way to expand the subnet (by whatever means) so that we don't have to touch each machine on the network? I know this is vague. I can supply more info. E-mail me directly if you have any suggestions. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 7 20:08:48 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:08:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <199657927.20040507122151@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I said this with only one situation to reference. Developed an application and sent it to the client. (they were some distance away.) The print jobs kept going to the 'default' printer. It was not until, I made a vist to their office, when through every report and re-saved and the probelm never came back again. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Jim and Mike I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of the report. Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. /gustav > Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured > to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the > development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases > sends it's work to the default printer. > It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Everyone, > I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out > different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go > to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes > in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to > go back to the default printer. > Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the > label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct > the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 8 04:00:29 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 11:00:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1733343217.20040508110029@cactus.dk> Hi Jim So your report was not assigned the default printer? If a report is set to use a specific printer setting, the name of this must, of course, be present at the client. The printer doesn't need to be identical with yours but similar. Perhaps that was the problem - your printers were too different? /gustav > Hi Gustav: > I said this with only one situation to reference. > Developed an application and sent it to the client. (they were some distance > away.) The print jobs kept going to the 'default' printer. It was not until, > I made a vist to their office, when through every report and re-saved and > the probelm never came back again. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Jim and Mike > I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of > the report. > Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to > AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. > /gustav >> Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured >> to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the >> development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases >> sends it's work to the default printer. >> It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. >> Jim >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W >> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer >> Hi Everyone, >> I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out >> different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go >> to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes >> in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to >> go back to the default printer. >> Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the >> label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct >> the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> Thanks, >> Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. >> Team Leader - SRCI >> Information Systems & Services Division From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 8 04:28:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 11:28:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <4094A362.5080105@shaw.ca> References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE57A@TAPPEEXCH01> <008201c42fa2$61a55890$0100a8c0@kost36> <000b01c42fbc$63a96720$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <4094A362.5080105@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1945004385.20040508112810@cactus.dk> Hi Marty > For a different file based database running on Novell with windows clients > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm This is an excellent round up of the issues with Windows servers. > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_net_fact_sheet.htm This has some nice tips as well. However, for the records, the recommendations about the Novell Client are either not relevant any longer (they refer to the old name of the client: Client32) or are specific to Superbase. Indeed, turning off server side caching and packet burst mode are very doubtful. /gustav From joeget at vgernet.net Sat May 8 06:37:17 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 07:37:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] form closure Message-ID: <001601c434f0$d5317480$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Is there a way to hide the upper right hand corner (x) close capability on a form. Individuals are closing out their databases with that option instead of the form option i have installed to compact upon closure? thanks john eget From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de Sat May 8 08:11:13 2004 From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 15:11:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] form closure References: <001601c434f0$d5317480$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <011901c434fd$f0fc3fd0$0200a8c0@S856> you can open a form as hidden when you start the database and have in its OnClose event al the stuff you want to run before Access closes Lembit Soobik ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Eget" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: [AccessD] form closure Is there a way to hide the upper right hand corner (x) close capability on a form. Individuals are closing out their databases with that option instead of the form option i have installed to compact upon closure? thanks john eget -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 8 13:02:08 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:02:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] form closure In-Reply-To: <001601c434f0$d5317480$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <00a901c43526$948ffbf0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> John You can suppress the Close x but not if the form's maximized. See http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0022.htm to overcome this. Alternatively (and easier) create a boolean var in the form's code (e.g. blnCanClose). Behind your Close button set it to True. In the form's OnUnload event put: If blnCanClose=False then Cancel=true End if That way only closing via your code will work. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget > Sent: 08 May 2004 12:37 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] form closure > > > Is there a way to hide the upper right hand corner (x) close > capability on a form. Individuals are closing out their > databases with that option instead of the form option i have > installed to compact upon closure? thanks john eget > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mastercafe at ctv.es Sat May 8 15:06:33 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 22:06:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats In-Reply-To: <011901c434fd$f0fc3fd0$0200a8c0@S856> Message-ID: <003601c43537$f6315c80$0300a8c0@masterserver> We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other format, not for XML. Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? TIA Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 8 16:47:36 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 14:47:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer In-Reply-To: <1733343217.20040508110029@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: Could have been...there were some kind of Japanese printer, I do remember the name but they were suppose to function similar to HP. That was apparently not the case. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 2:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer Hi Jim So your report was not assigned the default printer? If a report is set to use a specific printer setting, the name of this must, of course, be present at the client. The printer doesn't need to be identical with yours but similar. Perhaps that was the problem - your printers were too different? /gustav > Hi Gustav: > I said this with only one situation to reference. > Developed an application and sent it to the client. (they were some distance > away.) The print jobs kept going to the 'default' printer. It was not until, > I made a vist to their office, when through every report and re-saved and > the probelm never came back again. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer > Hi Jim and Mike > I don't see this. You can pick the "Default printer" as the printer of > the report. > Mike's problem may have something to do with a bug related to > AutoCorrect but I don't remember - look up the archive. > /gustav >> Access has a feature that I consider a bug. All reports must be configured >> to a specific printer. If the environment on a station is different from the >> development station the report can become disoriented and in some cases >> sends it's work to the default printer. >> It's the MSAccess gremlin, I tell ya. >> Jim >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gowey Mike W >> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:56 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Assign Specific Printer >> Hi Everyone, >> I have a little delima. I have a mail tracking database that prints out >> different types of labels. In the label page set up I have it set to go >> to a specific printer, but for some reason whenever I make any changes >> in the FE and push out the new FE some of the labels reset themselves to >> go back to the default printer. >> Is there anyway in code that I can hard code the printer that I want the >> label to go to??? I am getting tired of having to go back and correct >> the label on the users FE to make it go to a specific printer. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> Thanks, >> Mike Gowey MCSA, A+ Cert. >> Team Leader - SRCI >> Information Systems & Services Division -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 8 16:47:40 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 14:47:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Novell and Access In-Reply-To: <1945004385.20040508112810@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Superbase was the first PC based DB that I ever worked on (1982)...actually it ran on a Commodore64. It was very fast and functional and I really missed as it went into a black-hole for a few years and then sort of remerged in the early nineties...Did not know that it still existed. Good to know it is still in there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 2:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Novell and Access Hi Marty > For a different file based database running on Novell with windows clients > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm This is an excellent round up of the issues with Windows servers. > http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_net_fact_sheet.htm This has some nice tips as well. However, for the records, the recommendations about the Novell Client are either not relevant any longer (they refer to the old name of the client: Client32) or are specific to Superbase. Indeed, turning off server side caching and packet burst mode are very doubtful. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat May 8 18:40:54 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 11:40:54 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] SR level of Office Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908870F@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> The construct SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) gets me the Access version I am running. I have looked thru SysCmd and can't find how to determine the patch level. I want to disable some command buttons whose underlying code depends on Access 2000 being patched to service pack 3. Any ideas? Stephen Bond From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun May 9 10:44:51 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 08:44:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats References: <003601c43537$f6315c80$0300a8c0@masterserver> Message-ID: <409E51F3.1070703@shaw.ca> Can you post the code, you are using, Are you using an xslt transform? MastercafeCTV wrote: >We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are making >with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the XML format >we only can use without acformat and then select from a new window. >We look the main help and some samples but allways put other format, not for >XML. > >Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? > >TIA > >Juan > > >================================ >Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >www.mastercafe.com >info at mastercafe.com >================================ > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From mastercafe at ctv.es Sun May 9 14:55:01 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:55:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats In-Reply-To: <409E51F3.1070703@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c435ff$84671fe0$0300a8c0@masterserver> This is the complete Procedure code: Private Sub imprime_Click() On Error GoTo Err_imprime_Click Dim stDocName As String Dim ctlPtr As Printer Dim devName As String Dim strPtr As String 'impresora en curso Dim TmpImpresora As String Dim bucle As Integer Dim sngBot As Single Dim sngTop As Single Dim sngLft As Single Dim sngRgt As Single Dim resp As Boolean sngBot = Me.InfBot sngTop = Me.InfTop sngLft = Me.InfLeft sngRgt = Me.InfRight strPtr = Application.Printer.DeviceName 'this routine is to take a different printer before launch the current report TmpImpresora = Me.InfImpr stDocName = Me.InfNombre If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(TmpImpresora) With Application.Printer .BottomMargin = sngBot * 567 '.Copies = Me.InfCopias .TopMargin = sngTop * 567 .LeftMargin = sngLft * 567 .RightMargin = sngRgt * 567 If Me.InfOrienta = 1 Then .Orientation = acPRORLandscape Else .Orientation = acPRORPortrait End If End With End If If Me.externo <> "STEEL" Then 'external function to open a remote Access Report to use resp = fOpenRemoteReportParam(Me.externo, stDocName, Me.argumentos, Me.SALIDA) GoTo SALIDA End If Select Case Me.SALIDA 'this is the main SELECT to checjk the option that was selected in the form Case 1 'OPCION DE SALIDA POR PANTALLA ACTIVAR EL SNAPSHOT DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatSNP, cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" DoCmd.OpenForm "SnapShot", acNormal, , , acFormEdit, acDialog, cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" Case 2 For bucle = 1 To Me.InfCopias DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acNormal, , Me.argumentos Next bucle Case 3 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatXLS, cteHojas & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xls", ctrlexcel 'If Me.ctrlexcel Then ' AbreExcel cteHojas & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".XLS" 'End If Case 4 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatRTF, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".rtf", ctrlexcel Case 5 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatIIS, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".htx", ctrlexcel Case 6 '******************** this is the XML format because without format you can select this DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, , cteDirectorio & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xml", ctrlexcel Case 7 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatHTML, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", ctrlexcel Case 8 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatASP, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".asp", ctrlexcel Case 9 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", ctrlexcel Case 10 DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".txt", ctrlexcel End Select SALIDA: If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then 'se restablece la impresora si fue cambiada Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(strPtr) 'volvemos a dejar la q estaba End If Exit_imprime_Click: Exit Sub Err_imprime_Click: MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_imprime_Click End Sub ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: domingo, 09 de mayo de 2004 17:45 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Exporting formats Can you post the code, you are using, Are you using an xslt transform? MastercafeCTV wrote: >We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are >making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the >XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new >window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other >format, not for XML. > >Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? > >TIA > >Juan > > >================================ >Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >www.mastercafe.com >info at mastercafe.com >================================ > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 9 17:46:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:46:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] .net assembler Message-ID: Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still fascinating. Url = buf.Substring(4) 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax 00000104 mov ecx,edi 00000106 mov edx,4 Url = buf.Substring(4) 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx 0000010d call FF482728 00000112 mov ebx,eax 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] 0000011a call 75ACCA48 Exit Do 0000011f nop 00000120 jmp 0000012B End If 00000122 nop Loop 00000123 nop Do While True 00000124 xor eax,eax 00000126 cmp eax,1 00000129 jne 000000D4 Reader.Close() 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] 00000133 nop Stream.Close() 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] 0000013c nop End Sub 0000013d nop 0000013e pop ebx 0000013f pop esi 00000140 pop edi 00000141 mov esp,ebp 00000143 pop ebp 00000144 ret John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 9 17:46:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:46:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] .net assembler Message-ID: Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still fascinating. Url = buf.Substring(4) 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax 00000104 mov ecx,edi 00000106 mov edx,4 Url = buf.Substring(4) 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx 0000010d call FF482728 00000112 mov ebx,eax 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] 0000011a call 75ACCA48 Exit Do 0000011f nop 00000120 jmp 0000012B End If 00000122 nop Loop 00000123 nop Do While True 00000124 xor eax,eax 00000126 cmp eax,1 00000129 jne 000000D4 Reader.Close() 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] 00000133 nop Stream.Close() 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] 0000013c nop End Sub 0000013d nop 0000013e pop ebx 0000013f pop esi 00000140 pop edi 00000141 mov esp,ebp 00000143 pop ebp 00000144 ret John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 9 18:25:05 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 19:25:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] .net assembler References: Message-ID: <000801c4361c$dc63aac0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...has to be a distribution error JC, a dangerous one imnsho ...assembler source is MS proprietary code that they protect like Fort Knox ...and the thought of hackers getting access to such source sends shudders down the spine ...I'd bet MS will be "patching" this asap :( ...hope they're already aware of it :( William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "VBA" ; "AccessD" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: [AccessD] [dba-VB] .net assembler > Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item > in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that > displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not > that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and > no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still > fascinating. > > Url = buf.Substring(4) > 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] > 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax > 00000104 mov ecx,edi > 00000106 mov edx,4 > Url = buf.Substring(4) > 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx > 0000010d call FF482728 > 00000112 mov ebx,eax > 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] > 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] > 0000011a call 75ACCA48 > Exit Do > 0000011f nop > 00000120 jmp 0000012B > End If > 00000122 nop > Loop > 00000123 nop > Do While True > 00000124 xor eax,eax > 00000126 cmp eax,1 > 00000129 jne 000000D4 > Reader.Close() > 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] > 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] > 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] > 00000133 nop > Stream.Close() > 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] > 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] > 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] > 0000013c nop > End Sub > 0000013d nop > 0000013e pop ebx > 0000013f pop esi > 00000140 pop edi > 00000141 mov esp,ebp > 00000143 pop ebp > 00000144 ret > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Sun May 9 18:25:29 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:25:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] .net assembler Message-ID: Actually, if ytou look at the code a bit you'll find its not that interesting - its just a glorified jump table for the il code. B "John W. Colby" , "AccessD" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] .net assembler accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 10/05/2004 08:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Just thought you folks might be interested. I found a right click menu item in VB.Net as I was stepping through my program... "Go to disassembly" that displays the machine code for the vb being processed. Ain't that cool? Not that I've even looked at assembler in more years than I'd care to admit (and no comments, never mind labels for the jump addresses) but it is still fascinating. Url = buf.Substring(4) 000000fe mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-4] 00000101 mov dword ptr [ebp-34h],eax 00000104 mov ecx,edi 00000106 mov edx,4 Url = buf.Substring(4) 0000010b cmp dword ptr [ecx],ecx 0000010d call FF482728 00000112 mov ebx,eax 00000114 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp-34h] 00000117 lea edx,[eax+8] 0000011a call 75ACCA48 Exit Do 0000011f nop 00000120 jmp 0000012B End If 00000122 nop Loop 00000123 nop Do While True 00000124 xor eax,eax 00000126 cmp eax,1 00000129 jne 000000D4 Reader.Close() 0000012b mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-0Ch] 0000012e mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000130 call dword ptr [eax+44h] 00000133 nop Stream.Close() 00000134 mov ecx,dword ptr [ebp-10h] 00000137 mov eax,dword ptr [ecx] 00000139 call dword ptr [eax+5Ch] 0000013c nop End Sub 0000013d nop 0000013e pop ebx 0000013f pop esi 00000140 pop edi 00000141 mov esp,ebp 00000143 pop ebp 00000144 ret John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon May 10 00:18:28 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:48:28 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report References: <000001c43307$98d24040$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <00be01c4364e$57569ea0$4c1865cb@winxp> Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 10 01:14:55 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 23:14:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats References: <005b01c435ff$84671fe0$0300a8c0@masterserver> Message-ID: <409F1DDF.4050302@shaw.ca> Ahh that way If you try ?acformatxls from the debug window You get Microsoft Excel (*.xls) ?acformatxml returns nothing With Access 2002 and 2003 using ExportXML method you can get a report ouput as ReportML format Need reference to MS Office 11 or 10 object library Application.ExportXML _ ObjectType:=acExportTable, _ DataSource:="Customers", _ DataTarget:="Customers.xml", _ SchemaTarget:="CustomersSchema.xml", _ OtherFlags:="32" Look up ExportXML and ReportML, I think this flakey in 2002 but works in 2003 http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/preview.aspx?AssetID=HA010345461033&CTT=6&Origin=EC010553071033 MastercafeCTV wrote: >This is the complete Procedure code: > >Private Sub imprime_Click() >On Error GoTo Err_imprime_Click > > Dim stDocName As String > Dim ctlPtr As Printer > Dim devName As String > Dim strPtr As String 'impresora en curso > Dim TmpImpresora As String > Dim bucle As Integer > Dim sngBot As Single > Dim sngTop As Single > Dim sngLft As Single > Dim sngRgt As Single > Dim resp As Boolean > sngBot = Me.InfBot > sngTop = Me.InfTop > sngLft = Me.InfLeft > sngRgt = Me.InfRight > >strPtr = Application.Printer.DeviceName 'this routine is to take a different >printer before launch the current report >TmpImpresora = Me.InfImpr > > stDocName = Me.InfNombre > If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then > Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(TmpImpresora) > With Application.Printer > .BottomMargin = sngBot * 567 > '.Copies = Me.InfCopias > .TopMargin = sngTop * 567 > .LeftMargin = sngLft * 567 > .RightMargin = sngRgt * 567 > If Me.InfOrienta = 1 Then > .Orientation = acPRORLandscape > Else > .Orientation = acPRORPortrait > End If > End With > End If > > If Me.externo <> "STEEL" Then 'external function to open a remote Access >Report to use > resp = fOpenRemoteReportParam(Me.externo, stDocName, >Me.argumentos, Me.SALIDA) > GoTo SALIDA > End If > > Select Case Me.SALIDA 'this is the main SELECT to checjk the option >that was selected in the form > Case 1 > 'OPCION DE SALIDA POR PANTALLA ACTIVAR EL SNAPSHOT > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatSNP, >cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" > DoCmd.OpenForm "SnapShot", acNormal, , , acFormEdit, acDialog, >cteDirectorio & "\SNP\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".snp" > Case 2 > For bucle = 1 To Me.InfCopias > DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acNormal, , Me.argumentos > Next bucle > Case 3 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatXLS, cteHojas >& "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xls", ctrlexcel > 'If Me.ctrlexcel Then > ' AbreExcel cteHojas & "\" & stDocName & Format(Date, >"YYMMDD") & ".XLS" > 'End If > Case 4 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatRTF, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".rtf", >ctrlexcel > Case 5 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatIIS, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".htx", >ctrlexcel > Case 6 '******************** this is the XML format because without >format you can select this > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, , cteDirectorio & "\" >& stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".xml", ctrlexcel > Case 7 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatHTML, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", >ctrlexcel > Case 8 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatASP, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".asp", >ctrlexcel > Case 9 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".html", >ctrlexcel > Case 10 > DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, stDocName, acFormatDAP, >cteDirectorio & "\export\" & stDocName & Format(Date, "YYMMDD") & ".txt", >ctrlexcel > End Select > >SALIDA: > If Me.InfImpr <> "LPT1:" Then 'se restablece la impresora si fue >cambiada > Set Application.Printer = Application.Printers(strPtr) 'volvemos a >dejar la q estaba > End If >Exit_imprime_Click: > Exit Sub > >Err_imprime_Click: > MsgBox Err.Description > Resume Exit_imprime_Click > >End Sub > >================================ >Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >www.mastercafe.com >info at mastercafe.com >================================ > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: domingo, 09 de mayo de 2004 17:45 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Exporting formats > > >Can you post the code, you are using, Are you using an xslt transform? > >MastercafeCTV wrote: > > > >>We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are >>making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the >>XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new >>window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other >>format, not for XML. >> >>Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? >> >>TIA >> >>Juan >> >> >>================================ >>Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 >>c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) >>Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com >>www.mastercafe.com >>info at mastercafe.com >>================================ >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 08:01:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:01:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: Group, If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename it (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? Mark From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 10 08:02:21 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:02:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report In-Reply-To: <32256969.1084166511718.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000c01c4368f$08515e30$de1811d8@danwaters> A.D. - Thanks! I'll try it out today. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 08:20:24 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:20:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Message-ID: Wild guess...Could you loop through the affected controls and "DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSendToBack"? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Circle Method on report A.D. - Thanks! I'll try it out today. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 10 10:23:04 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:23:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Hello All, In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is date oriented. Each query counts a different combination of data elements. All of these queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to join to a date query(on a date field) that includes all dates even if there is no data in one of the other queries. The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring any rows back when joined to the date query even though there are matching records. Each query has at least 1 expression, whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF statement. The problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). The query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. If I remove any 3 of these statements...the query joins fine. It doesn't matter which 3 I remove...as long as there is only 1 remaining. If I create a table with the output of the problem query...the table joins fine with the date query. Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue with joining queries when IIF statements are used. FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even reference the date field in question...the query groups on the date and that is all. Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 10:24:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:24:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: The relationships travel with the renamed table. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:01 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Group, If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename it (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon May 10 10:28:49 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c436a3$7e0da890$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> I don't think so. I think the original relationships get transferred/changed to the renamed table at the time of renaming. Mike and Doris Manning mikedorism at adelphia.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:01 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Group, If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename it (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 10:29:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:29:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats Message-ID: Depends on the version of Access. You can persist a recordset to XML format in 2000 and up, which might be a solution, depending on what you're trying to do. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Exporting formats We are triying to export in XML format from VBA code, actually we are making with all format (TXT, XLS, HTX, HTML, SNP, ASP, DAP) but for the XML format we only can use without acformat and then select from a new window. We look the main help and some samples but allways put other format, not for XML. Someone have experience to export in XML format from VBA? TIA Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 10:38:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:38:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports Printing Portrait When Set To Landscape Message-ID: Are you working with the PrtDevMode property in 2002 or later? I ran into a similar problem when I tried using it for our commercial applications instead of the API calls we had previously used. Needless to say I went back to the old method. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:50 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Reports Printing Portrait When Set To Landscape To all, Don't know why I tried this but I did.....I have just designed two new reports that are required by the end of today, they display as landscape and when you print them using the Printer icon they print as portrait, however if you use File/Print they print as landscape. I tried turning off Auto Correct but that didn't help unfortunately, but thank you for the suggestion anyway. Has anyone any ideas on what's going on here ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon May 10 10:47:30 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:47:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Mark Is the date query you are talking about a saved query that you bring in along with the calculate query into a new 3rd query? SavedDateQuery -> SavedCalcquery OR are you trying to do the date query while doing the calculation query. Sql and specially Access gets confused sometimes on what it is trying to pull. I have found that creating intermediate temporary tables have been the only way to accomplish some routines. The other is using parenthesis to force one to be done before the other. Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Mark A Matte > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > Hello All, > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is > date oriented. > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. > All of these queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to > join to a date query(on a date field) that includes all dates > even if there is no data in one of the other queries. > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring > any rows back when joined to the date query even though there > are matching records. Each query has at least 1 expression, > whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF statement. The > problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). The > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. > If I remove any 3 of these statements...the query joins > fine. It doesn't matter which 3 I remove...as long as there > is only 1 remaining. > > If I create a table with the output of the problem > query...the table joins fine with the date query. > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue > with joining queries when IIF statements are used. > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even > reference the date field in question...the query groups on > the date and that is all. > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > _________________________________________________________________ > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at > MSN Life Events. > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon May 10 10:55:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:55:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82CC@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I just checked, and the answer is... it depends. If the related tables are in a back-end and you set up the relationships in the front-end using linked tables, then when you copy/add one table, rename the original and then rename the copy/additional table so it has the same name as the original table, the relationship will be recreated between the two tables with the original table names. This happens whether you work with the table on the one or the many side of a relationship, as long as you do all the copying/adding and renaming in the front end. If you are renaming and copying/adding tables in the back end then the relationships will be broken and NOT restored when you rename the new table so that it uses the original name. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [SMTP:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:01 AM > To: '[AccessD]' > Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes > > Group, > > If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename > it > (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with > identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon May 10 11:03:29 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:03:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD82CD@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I can't help thinking that its got to have something to do with the fact you are joining tables on a date field. For obvious reasons fields used to join tables have to have exactly the same value in order to make the join. Typically we use AutoNumber fields for the task. Are you SURE that all the date fields you are using for the join only contain a date, and that none of them also have a time in the field? If you have two date values that are one second off then you won't achieve a join. Of all the "natural" keys you might choose, I'm inclined to think that Dates are amongst the least suitable. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark A Matte [SMTP:markamatte at hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > Hello All, > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is date oriented. > > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. All of these > queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to join to a date query(on a > date field) that includes all dates even if there is no data in one of the > > other queries. > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring any rows back > when joined to the date query even though there are matching records. > Each > query has at least 1 expression, whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF > statement. The problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). > The > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. If I remove > > any 3 of these statements...the query joins fine. It doesn't matter which > 3 > I remove...as long as there is only 1 remaining. > > If I create a table with the output of the problem query...the table joins > > fine with the date query. > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue with joining > queries when IIF statements are used. > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even reference the > date field in question...the query groups on the date and that is all. > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > _________________________________________________________________ > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life > Events. > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 12:14:02 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:14:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes Message-ID: >> If you are renaming and copying/adding tables in the back end then the relationships will be broken and NOT restored when you rename the new table so that it uses the original name. << Even if the relationships ARE defined in the back end? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes I just checked, and the answer is... it depends. If the related tables are in a back-end and you set up the relationships in the front-end using linked tables, then when you copy/add one table, rename the original and then rename the copy/additional table so it has the same name as the original table, the relationship will be recreated between the two tables with the original table names. This happens whether you work with the table on the one or the many side of a relationship, as long as you do all the copying/adding and renaming in the front end. If you are renaming and copying/adding tables in the back end then the relationships will be broken and NOT restored when you rename the new table so that it uses the original name. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [SMTP:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:01 AM > To: '[AccessD]' > Subject: [AccessD] Relationships / Indexes > > Group, > > If I have table with dependent relationships and existing indexes, rename > it > (not delete), then add a second table (named as the original table) with > identical indexes, are the original relationships unaffected? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 10 12:19:54 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:19:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Patti, Your first scenario is the applicable one. They are all saved queries. The only difference in the queries is number of expressions in each. Even the query in question will work in the join if I remove the extra IIF statements...and it doesn't matter which ones I remove...as long as I only leave one. Before the join...the query runs fine with output as expected. The SQL below might help in painting the picture: ***If this is a saved query...and it is joined to the saved date query...there are no matching records ******************************** SELECT tblOneSource.closed_date, Sum(IIf([rc_status]="cls",1,0)) AS ClosedSaved, Sum(IIf([rc_status]="cll",1,0)) AS ClosedLost FROM tblOneSource INNER JOIN tblWorker AS tblWorker_1 ON tblOneSource.CaseRowAdded = tblWorker_1.oprid WHERE (((tblOneSource.rc_status) Like "c*")) GROUP BY tblOneSource.closed_date, tblOneSource.case_type, tblWorker_1.deptid HAVING (((tblOneSource.case_type)="md") AND ((tblWorker_1.deptid)="OS")); **************** ***If this is a saved query...and it is joined to the saved date query...there are matching records *************** SELECT tblOneSource.closed_date, Sum(IIf([rc_status]="cls",1,0)) AS ClosedSaved FROM tblOneSource INNER JOIN tblWorker AS tblWorker_1 ON tblOneSource.CaseRowAdded = tblWorker_1.oprid WHERE (((tblOneSource.rc_status) Like "c*")) GROUP BY tblOneSource.closed_date, tblOneSource.case_type, tblWorker_1.deptid HAVING (((tblOneSource.case_type)="md") AND ((tblWorker_1.deptid)="OS")); *************** I can remove either of the IIF statements...and the query will join fine...any ideas? Thanks, Mark >From: "O'Connor, Patricia " >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Join not working >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:47:30 -0400 > >Mark > >Is the date query you are talking about a saved query that you bring in >along with the calculate query into a new 3rd query? > SavedDateQuery -> SavedCalcquery > >OR are you trying to do the date query while doing the calculation >query. Sql and specially Access gets confused sometimes on what it is >trying to pull. > >I have found that creating intermediate temporary tables have been the >only way to accomplish some routines. The other is using parenthesis to >force one to be done before the other. > >Patti > >****************************************************************** >*Patricia O'Connor >*Associate Computer Programmer Analyst >*OTDA - BDMA >*(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us >*(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us >****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Mark A Matte > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > > > Hello All, > > > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is > > date oriented. > > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. > > All of these queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to > > join to a date query(on a date field) that includes all dates > > even if there is no data in one of the other queries. > > > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring > > any rows back when joined to the date query even though there > > are matching records. Each query has at least 1 expression, > > whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an IIF statement. The > > problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). The > > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. > > If I remove any 3 of these statements...the query joins > > fine. It doesn't matter which 3 I remove...as long as there > > is only 1 remaining. > > > > If I create a table with the output of the problem > > query...the table joins fine with the date query. > > > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue > > with joining queries when IIF statements are used. > > > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even > > reference the date field in question...the query groups on > > the date and that is all. > > > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at > > MSN Life Events. > > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon May 10 12:25:59 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:25:59 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working Message-ID: Lambert, For what I am trying to accomplish...dates are the key I must use. If I limit myself to only 1 IIF statement in the query...it joins fine...it is when I use more than 1 IIF statement that it does not find matching records( the IIF does not evaluate, compare, or even reference the date field in question)...and they are all dates...no time included. Thanks, Mark >From: "Heenan, Lambert" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Join not working >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:03:29 -0400 > >I can't help thinking that its got to have something to do with the fact >you >are joining tables on a date field. For obvious reasons fields used to join >tables have to have exactly the same value in order to make the join. >Typically we use AutoNumber fields for the task. > >Are you SURE that all the date fields you are using for the join only >contain a date, and that none of them also have a time in the field? If you >have two date values that are one second off then you won't achieve a join. > >Of all the "natural" keys you might choose, I'm inclined to think that >Dates >are amongst the least suitable. > >Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark A Matte [SMTP:markamatte at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:23 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Table Join not working > > > > Hello All, > > > > In A97 I am building a number of queries from data that is date >oriented. > > > > Each query counts a different combination of data elements. All of >these > > queries then use an Outer join (Right Join) to join to a date query(on a > > date field) that includes all dates even if there is no data in one of >the > > > > other queries. > > > > The problem I am having is 1 of the queries will not bring any rows back > > when joined to the date query even though there are matching records. > > Each > > query has at least 1 expression, whether it be COUNT or the SUM of an >IIF > > statement. The problem query has 4 expressions(sum of IIF statements). > > The > > query executes fine...just not when I join to the date query. If I >remove > > > > any 3 of these statements...the query joins fine. It doesn't matter >which > > 3 > > I remove...as long as there is only 1 remaining. > > > > If I create a table with the output of the problem query...the table >joins > > > > fine with the date query. > > > > Am I missing something...or does someone know of an issue with joining > > queries when IIF statements are used. > > > > FYI...none of the IIF statements evaluate, compare, or even reference >the > > date field in question...the query groups on the date and that is all. > > > > Any ideas/insight about the issue would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life > > Events. > > http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 13:38:55 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:38:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Message-ID: Group, Is there any way to bypass the "compact on close" programmatically? Based on an earlier suggestion, I added code to check "where" the front end was being opened. If local, fine, otherwise quit. But I'd like the file to just quit as soon as possible without performing a compact. Is this possible? Mark From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 10 14:48:53 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:48:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Message-ID: Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Mon May 10 15:11:12 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:11:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Message-ID: Hopefully this can help you get started. I have it in my splash screen. 'Now if the user is marked as being a programmer ask what mode to open application con = setconnection con.Open cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "'" cmdtext = cmdtext & " AND" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer<>0;" rs.Open cmdtext, con If Not rs.EOF And Not rs.BOF Then 'User is a programmer rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Open Application for Repairs/Debugging?" myresponse = MsgBox(mymessage, 36, "Question") 'Close the connection con.Close If myresponse = 6 Then 'Open application in design mode - ansewered yes to question mymessage = "Opening Application in Design Mode." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please don't hurt me to much." ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, True DoCmd.ShowToolbar "Menu Bar" MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmSplash" Exit Sub Else 'Open in normal mode - ansewered no to question mymessage = "Opening Application for Normal Use." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Have a nice day." MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Else con.Close cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "';" con = setconnection con.Open rs.Open cmdtext, con rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "I have determined that you are an authorized user." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please feel free to proceed and have a nice day." 'Close the connection con.Close ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Application.SetOption "Error Trapping", 2 MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As DAO.database Dim prp As DAO.Property Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/10/2004 02:48 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 10 17:15:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:15:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Message-ID: Application.SetOption "Auto Compact", False Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:39 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Group, Is there any way to bypass the "compact on close" programmatically? Based on an earlier suggestion, I added code to check "where" the front end was being opened. If local, fine, otherwise quit. But I'd like the file to just quit as soon as possible without performing a compact. Is this possible? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 10 18:39:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:39:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties In-Reply-To: <26905180.1084220391336.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000f01c436e8$1a651040$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, I use code very similar to this, but as part of Administrative functions, not in the startup routine. Changing the database properties takes effect only after you exit out and re-open your system. The changes will then apply to everyone who opens the database. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Hopefully this can help you get started. I have it in my splash screen. 'Now if the user is marked as being a programmer ask what mode to open application con = setconnection con.Open cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "'" cmdtext = cmdtext & " AND" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer<>0;" rs.Open cmdtext, con If Not rs.EOF And Not rs.BOF Then 'User is a programmer rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Open Application for Repairs/Debugging?" myresponse = MsgBox(mymessage, 36, "Question") 'Close the connection con.Close If myresponse = 6 Then 'Open application in design mode - ansewered yes to question mymessage = "Opening Application in Design Mode." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please don't hurt me to much." ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, True DoCmd.ShowToolbar "Menu Bar" MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmSplash" Exit Sub Else 'Open in normal mode - ansewered no to question mymessage = "Opening Application for Normal Use." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Have a nice day." MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Else con.Close cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "';" con = setconnection con.Open rs.Open cmdtext, con rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "I have determined that you are an authorized user." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please feel free to proceed and have a nice day." 'Close the connection con.Close ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Application.SetOption "Error Trapping", 2 MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As DAO.database Dim prp As DAO.Property Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/10/2004 02:48 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon May 10 18:39:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:39:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report In-Reply-To: <4284156.1084195404798.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001001c436e8$1ae563d0$de1811d8@danwaters> Thanks Mark! I didn't know of that command. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Wild guess...Could you loop through the affected controls and "DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSendToBack"? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Circle Method on report A.D. - Thanks! I'll try it out today. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Dan, If the circle is drawn in Page event of the report, it appears on top of everything. If for any reason, you have to do it in the detail event , you might consider setting the back style of various controls in this section to transparent (till a better solution is found). Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Waters To: Database Advisors Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 06:45 Subject: [AccessD] Circle Method on report Hello to all, I'm using the circle method on a report, but the problem I'm having is that the circle appears to always be drawn behind any other object, where I need it to be on top. I looked at the DrawMode property, and it looks like setting 1 might do the trick, but I can't get this to work. Has anyone gotten DrawMode to work with a circle? Thanks, Dan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Mon May 10 19:34:10 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:34:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Parts Cross Reference Table Structure In-Reply-To: <001001c436e8$1ae563d0$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: What would be the best way to tie in a Part Number Cross Ref. to an existing parts database system? Table Suggestion? Functional Suggestions? Thanks Robert Gracie From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 06:59:17 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:59:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Message-ID: Jeffrey, that is precisely what I'm trying to do...thanks. I'm using a launcher application to open the front end so your approach should work just fine for me. It appears that you are doing the same...is this correct? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Mark, I use code very similar to this, but as part of Administrative functions, not in the startup routine. Changing the database properties takes effect only after you exit out and re-open your system. The changes will then apply to everyone who opens the database. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties Hopefully this can help you get started. I have it in my splash screen. 'Now if the user is marked as being a programmer ask what mode to open application con = setconnection con.Open cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "'" cmdtext = cmdtext & " AND" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.Programmer<>0;" rs.Open cmdtext, con If Not rs.EOF And Not rs.BOF Then 'User is a programmer rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Open Application for Repairs/Debugging?" myresponse = MsgBox(mymessage, 36, "Question") 'Close the connection con.Close If myresponse = 6 Then 'Open application in design mode - ansewered yes to question mymessage = "Opening Application in Design Mode." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please don't hurt me to much." ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, True DoCmd.ShowToolbar "Menu Bar" MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmSplash" Exit Sub Else 'Open in normal mode - ansewered no to question mymessage = "Opening Application for Normal Use." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Have a nice day." MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Else con.Close cmdtext = "SELECT" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]," cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User Name]" cmdtext = cmdtext & " FROM" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers" cmdtext = cmdtext & " WHERE" cmdtext = cmdtext & " tblUsers.[User LAN Id]='" & GetTheCurrentUser & "';" con = setconnection con.Open rs.Open cmdtext, con rs.MoveFirst mymessage = "Hello " & rs.Fields("User Name") & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "I have determined that you are an authorized user." & Chr(10) & Chr(13) mymessage = mymessage & "Please feel free to proceed and have a nice day." 'Close the connection con.Close ChangeProperty "StartupForm", dbText, "frmSplash" ChangeProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True ChangeProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBreakIntoCode", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, False ChangeProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Application.SetOption "Error Trapping", 2 MsgBox mymessage, vbOKOnly, "Welcome" DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMainMenu" Exit Sub End If Function ChangeProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Integer Dim dbs As DAO.database Dim prp As DAO.Property Const conPropNotFoundError = 3270 Set dbs = CurrentDb On Error GoTo Change_Err dbs.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue ChangeProperty = True Change_Bye: Exit Function Change_Err: If Err = conPropNotFoundError Then ' Property not found. Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) dbs.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else ' Unknown error. ChangeProperty = False Resume Change_Bye End If End Function "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/10/2004 02:48 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Can someone point me in the direction of a short tutorial on database startup properties? I have seen tools for setting these properties remotely ala http://www.jamiessoftware.tk/propeditor/pe_download.html, but I'm looking for examples on how to roll-my-own. I'm trying to create an automated routine that toggles all the appropriate properties for an administrator login (full menus, shortcuts, show database window, etc.). Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 07:13:59 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:13:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Message-ID: Charlotte, Well that explains it...thank you. A search on the object browser using 'compact' and 'options' had yielded nothing useful. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Application.SetOption "Auto Compact", False Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 10:39 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Bypass Compact on Close Group, Is there any way to bypass the "compact on close" programmatically? Based on an earlier suggestion, I added code to check "where" the front end was being opened. If local, fine, otherwise quit. But I'd like the file to just quit as soon as possible without performing a compact. Is this possible? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 11 08:22:25 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 06:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: <20040511132225.16355.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot open the database window. In order to see the database window I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. This application is so worthless that the users need access to the database window in order to work with the application (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) How is it possible that I do not see the database window (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Tue May 11 08:51:41 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:51:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: Ran into this last month. The database window is probably hidden in a lower quadrant. Go into the application go to toolbar WINDOWS select tile - the database window should appear. Move it to the upper left quadrant of screen and close . When you open it should be where you can see it. HTH Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 09:22 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! > > Hi group, > > we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with > A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to > A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! > > Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot > open the database window. In order to see the database window > I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the > FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window > (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. > > This application is so worthless that the users need access > to the database window in order to work with the application > (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign > a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) > > How is it possible that I do not see the database window > (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? > > TIA > > Sander > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Tue May 11 08:58:38 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:58:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: Sander, Do you mean that in the previous version, the database container was not hidden on startup? The behavior you describe suggests that the Database Window is being hidden in code (since you can bypass the AutoExec routine by holding down the Shift key on startup). I don't recommend users poking around in the database container, but it sounds like you've been doing it for some time. Look at the AutoExec macro and see what code is executing on Startup. I'll bet that somewhere in that code is the line that hides the database container. Is it not possible to either contact the developer, or have a developer, either in your shop or from outside, look at the Access file and make the modifications you require, without sending the users to the Container? That would likely be your best bet. HTH, Steve -----S D's Original Message----- Hi group, we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot open the database window. In order to see the database window I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. This application is so worthless that the users need access to the database window in order to work with the application (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) How is it possible that I do not see the database window (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? TIA Sander From pedro at plex.nl Tue May 11 16:02:25 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:02:25 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello grooup, i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). How is this possible? I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. Pedro Janssen Cytologist From artful at rogers.com Tue May 11 10:10:04 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:10:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables In-Reply-To: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Tue May 11 10:24:13 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:24:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: I have several that do this. All the lookup tables are in dbReference. The data tables are in their own databases. I link the reference table and the data tables to the appropriate front ends. Has been working quite well for about 4 years now. It allows me to maintain the reference tables ONCE for all the systems, no need to hunt through 4 systems and determine whether they use that particular lookup. The only validation I do at the table level is default value and maybe caption but for the most part that occurs in whatever routine is receiving or sending the data. Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:10 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables > > I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. > "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to > me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one > containing only the lookup tables and the other containing > only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach > is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level > -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know > this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. > What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end > to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups > database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this > out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant > problems in this approach. > > My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can > freely nuke all the data in the data database, while > preserving all the data in the lookup database. > > Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 11 10:24:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:24:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: In A2k and later, Access does not recognize files with odd extensions as text files, so it regards them as read-only. There are registry hacks you can use but in our apps, which get distributed to clients all over the world, we decided that it was not our place to meddle with the clients settings that way, so we switched to txt extensions for all our text files. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Hello grooup, i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). How is this possible? I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. Pedro Janssen Cytologist -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:25:31 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:25:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: I'm reaching back towards my limited knowledge of theory, but if I understand what you are saying, then your lookup tables represent changing business rules. In this case, I believe it is a classic interpretation of a three-tier system, where data, business rules, and user interface are all separated. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 11 10:35:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:35:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables In-Reply-To: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> Message-ID: One immediate issue is relational integrity. You (your users) can now delete lookup records that are used in data tables, thus creating "orphans". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 11 10:30:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:30:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: Arthur, You can do it the way you envision and shouldn't have a bunch of problems ... Unless you get tangled in replication. I've often built applications on this 3-database plan, but you need more robust code for handling relinking and testing the links, since testing only one database or relinking only one isn't enough. We do something similar with our commercial apps in this company, so I know it works on a broad scale. I must admit that I haven't tried it with MDEs, though, so maybe someone else can contribute on that point. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can see any significant problems in this approach. My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the lookup database. Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:40:34 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: Two work-arounds come to mind. First: shell out rename the file complete the transfer shell out rename the file back again Second: shell out copy the file to a temp file with .txt extension complete the transfer shell out kill the temp file Mark -----Original Message----- From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Hello grooup, i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). How is this possible? I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. Pedro Janssen Cytologist -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 11 10:47:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:47:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6433329905.20040511174705@cactus.dk> Hi Mark No need to "shell out" to do that ... /gustav > Two work-arounds come to mind. > First: > shell out > rename the file > complete the transfer > shell out > rename the file back again > Second: > shell out > copy the file to a temp file with .txt extension > complete the transfer > shell out > kill the temp file > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import > Hello grooup, > i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to > A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a > macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a > filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal > textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. > Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In > A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to > ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > How is this possible? > I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because > these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and > different actions. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 11 10:56:50 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:56:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Message-ID: True...my apologies. "Shell" was stuck in my mind because I was recently working on that ShellExecute situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import Hi Mark No need to "shell out" to do that ... /gustav > Two work-arounds come to mind. > First: > shell out > rename the file > complete the transfer > shell out > rename the file back again > Second: > shell out > copy the file to a temp file with .txt extension > complete the transfer > shell out > kill the temp file > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import > Hello grooup, > i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to > A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a > macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a > filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal > textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. > Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In > A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to > ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > How is this possible? > I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because > these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and > different actions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 11 11:43:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:43:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables In-Reply-To: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> References: <031601c4376a$0a19f1b0$6401a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <13536739298.20040511184354@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur I've never understood the concept of "lookup" tables. To me data are either user/organization specific or application specific. The idea of tables with "data that never changes" like postal codes (which do change) is doomed to fail. Application specific data that change only by a version change can be held within the application itself. In some cases the application specific data can change more often or may be independent of the application version. One example of this is an application we build for handling payments and transfer to the client's on-line banking system. Here we have six different systems used be many hundreds of banks. The mix of banks and systems and im/export routines changes rarely but will change over the years and banks will open, close or merge. We chose to put this list in a separate write protected database named ...sys.mda to be put in the same folder as the application which automatically relinks the tables at launch. It is only used as a convenience for the user who now only has to pick the bank(s) he/she uses, then everything else is set right for the application. This system allows us to send an update for either the system database or the application or both. The about box in the application tells, of course, the version numbers of the app and of the sysbase. The user only needs to backup the true database backend. If this approach is what you have in mind, I can recommend it. /gustav > I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. > "data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I > could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the > lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I > don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can > at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I > know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. > What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data > database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to > build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can > see any significant problems in this approach. > My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all > the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the > lookup database. > Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) > Arthur From gdb at AllenandAllen.com Tue May 11 12:05:33 2004 From: gdb at AllenandAllen.com (Boehm, Gary D.) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:05:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 11 12:32:29 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:32:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SR level of Office References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908870F@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <40A10E2D.7060807@shaw.ca> From the MS dll help database for msaccess.exe http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http%3a%2f%2fsupport.microsoft.com%2fservicedesks%2ffileversion%2fdllinfo.asp&fp=1 Here are the SP versions for Access It skips some Version numbers like Office 2000 SP2 and Office 2003 beta Maybe the Office 2000 SP2 download is no longer available, I haven't checked. File Name Version More Information Description msaccess.exe 9.0.0.6620 More Information Microsoft Access for Windows 2000 SP3 msaccess.exe 9.0.0.3822 More Information Microsoft Access for Windows 2000 SP1 msaccess.exe 9.0.0.2719 More Information Microsoft Access for Windows 2000 standard msaccess.exe 8.0.0.5903 More Information Microsoft Access 97 SP2 msaccess.exe 8.0.0.4122 More Information Microsoft Access 97 SP1 msaccess.exe 8.0.0.3512 More Information Microsoft Access 97 standard msaccess.exe 11.0.5614.0 More Information Microsoft Office Access 2003 msaccess.exe 10.0.4302.0 More Information Microsoft Access XP SP2 msaccess.exe 10.0.3409.0 More Information Microsoft Access XP SP1 msaccess.exe 10.0.2627.1 More Information Microsoft Access XP standard msaccess.exe More Information Access 2.0 Here is some quick and dirty code to get ALL Access versions installed on the machine No matter where the user has stuffed them. ie. in \MySpecial\OfficeAccessDirectory ie Version 8.0.0.5903 is Access 97 SP-2 However newer versions of McAfee Ver 8.0 will cough and splutter on this and complain about running scripts. I could switch this code to use API calls instead of WSH Sub tryver() Dim i As Long Dim strPath As String Dim strVersion As String For i = 8 To 11 strPath = GetAccessPath(i) strVersion = GetVersion(strPath) If Len(strPath) Then MsgBox "Microsoft Access version " & strVersion & " is installed at" _ & strPath, 64, "Found It" End If Next End Sub Function GetAccessPath(Version As Long) As String Dim wsh As Object Dim strValue As String On Error Resume Next Set wsh = CreateObject("Wscript.Shell") strValue = wsh.RegRead("HKCR\Access.Application." & Version & _ "\Shell\Open\Command\") GetAccessPath = StripIt(strValue) End Function Function StripIt(Arg As String) As String 'Removes any command line parameters or quotes from the string If InStr(Arg, "/") > 0 Then StripIt = Trim(Left(Arg, InStr(Arg, "/") - 1)) Else StripIt = Arg End If If Left(StripIt, 1) = Chr(34) Then StripIt = Mid(StripIt, 2) End If If Right(StripIt, 1) = Chr(34) Then StripIt = Left(StripIt, Len(StripIt) - 1) End If End Function Function GetVersion(FilePath) As String 'Returns version for FilePath Dim fso As Object Dim temp As String On Error Resume Next Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") temp = fso.GetFileVersion(FilePath) If Len(temp) Then GetVersion = temp Else GetVersion = 0 End If End Function Stephen Bond wrote: >The construct SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) gets me the Access version I am running. I have looked thru SysCmd and can't find how to determine the patch level. > >I want to disable some command buttons whose underlying code depends on Access 2000 being patched to service pack 3. > >Any ideas? > >Stephen Bond > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 11 13:01:48 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:01:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import References: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <40A1150C.4060807@shaw.ca> This is Microsoft being helpful, I have forgotten the exact reason. The behaviour may have been switched back with the latest Jet release However in the meantime just use the Name As statement before and after you call the macro to rename the file or put in a function called from macro. You will get an error if file doesn't exist or is open. Name "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.gyn" As "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.txt" pedro at plex.nl wrote: >Hello grooup, > >i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > >How is this possible? >I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. > > >Pedro Janssen >Cytologist > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From lists at theopg.com Tue May 11 13:48:12 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:48:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <40A10E2D.7060807@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Hello folks... Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... E.g. Code Parent 1 1.1 1 1.2 1 1.3 1 1.2.1 1.2 1.2.2 1.2 1.1.1 1.1 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 Etc. becomes something like L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a value in level 5 etc. The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is driven primarily by saved SQL strings... Any ideas ??? Cheers Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 11 14:30:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:30:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Message-ID: <2446735211.20040511213030@cactus.dk> Hi Mark How about Select Left(Code, 1) As L1, Left(Code, 3) As L2, Left(Code, 5) As L3, Left(Code, 7) As L4, Left(Code, 9) As L5 From tblCodes; It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... /gustav > Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't > figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which > are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 > columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for that > level, but all the codes from the higher levels... > E.g. > Code Parent > 1 > 1.1 1 > 1.2 1 > 1.3 1 > 1.2.1 1.2 > 1.2.2 1.2 > 1.1.1 1.1 > 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 > 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 > Etc. becomes something like > L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 > 1 1 1 1 1 > 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 > 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 > This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up to > selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. Some > code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a value > in level 5 etc. > The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where > the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. > Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid > temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as > (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is > driven primarily by saved SQL strings... > Any ideas ??? > Cheers > Mark From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Tue May 11 15:06:53 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:06:53 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] SR level of Office Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F29088719@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> As usual, the list delivers. Thanks Marty. Adult beverages next time I'm visiting Victoria (cousin is a prof at the university). Stephen Bond Otatara, New Zealand > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 5:32 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SR level of Office > > > From the MS dll help database for msaccess.exe > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http%3a%2f%2fsu > pport.microsoft.com%2fservicedesks%2ffileversion%2fdllinfo.asp&fp=1 > Here are the SP versions for Access > It skips some Version numbers like Office 2000 SP2 and > Office 2003 beta > Maybe the Office 2000 SP2 download is no longer available, I haven't > checked. > > File Name Version More Information Description > msaccess.exe 9.0.0.6620 More Information > Microsoft Access > for Windows 2000 SP3 > msaccess.exe 9.0.0.3822 More Information > Microsoft Access > for Windows 2000 SP1 > > From pedro at plex.nl Tue May 11 13:46:59 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:46:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import References: <200405111402.i4BE2PuG014278@mailhostC.plex.net> <40A1150C.4060807@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <00d101c43797$111bcb00$f7c581d5@pedro> Hello, thanks to all who made clear why this error occurred and helping with suggesting to solve the problem. Renaming the file and name it back is a simple but effective solution. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] changing to A2K: error in import > This is Microsoft being helpful, I have forgotten the exact reason. The > behaviour may have been switched back with the latest Jet release > However in the meantime just use the Name As statement before and after > you call the macro to rename the file or put in a function called from > macro. > You will get an error if file doesn't exist or is open. > > Name "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.gyn" As "C:\MyDir\MyDir2\file.txt" > > pedro at plex.nl wrote: > > >Hello grooup, > > > >i have a database in A97 that works fine. I am converting this database to A2k and i get an error when importing a file. The import is done with a macro with the TransferText action. I use for this an Import spec on a filename that has an extension ".gyn". The text in this file is normal textfile in columns. When using this macro i get an error: Cannot update. Database or object is read-only. I double checked, nothing is read only. In A97 this works fine. In A2k it only works when changing the extension to ".txt" (the file and the FileName in the macro). > > > >How is this possible? > >I don't want to change the extensions of the filenames to ".txt., because these extensions helps me to keep files separated for different macro's and different actions. > > > > > >Pedro Janssen > >Cytologist > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From lists at theopg.com Tue May 11 16:00:09 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:00:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <2446735211.20040511213030@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> That was my very first choice :@) - problem is though that I can't rely on the length as some branches are complex, e.g. 1.1.23.210.1 I even created a query for each level, e.g. like *.* and not like *.*.* but that also gave me problems :@( Thanks anyway Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 11 May 2004 20:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query Hi Mark How about Select Left(Code, 1) As L1, Left(Code, 3) As L2, Left(Code, 5) As L3, Left(Code, 7) As L4, Left(Code, 9) As L5 From tblCodes; It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... /gustav > Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't > figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which > are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 > columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for > that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... > E.g. > Code Parent > 1 > 1.1 1 > 1.2 1 > 1.3 1 > 1.2.1 1.2 > 1.2.2 1.2 > 1.1.1 1.1 > 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 > 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 > Etc. becomes something like > L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 > 1 1 1 1 1 > 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 > 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 > This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up > to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. > Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a > value in level 5 etc. > The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where > the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. > Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid > temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as > (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is > driven primarily by saved SQL strings... > Any ideas ??? > Cheers > Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 11 17:34:17 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:34:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <2446735211.20040511213030@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <40A1E189.16690.2DD278@localhost> > Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't > figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which > are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 > columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for > that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... > E.g. > Code Parent > 1 > 1.1 1 > 1.2 1 > 1.3 1 > 1.2.1 1.2 > 1.2.2 1.2 > 1.1.1 1.1 > 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 > 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 > Etc. becomes something like > L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 > 1 1 1 1 1 > 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 > 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 > > This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up > > to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. > > Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a > > > value in level 5 etc. > > > The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where > > the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. > > > Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid > > temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as > > (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is > > driven primarily by saved SQL strings... > Use a function to extract the code segments? Function LevelCode(Code As String, Position As Long) As Double 'return double rather than string so that sorting works Position = Position - 1 'Split returns 0 based array Dim strSegment() As String strSegment = Split(Code, ".") If Position > UBound(strSegment) Then Position = UBound(strSegment) End If LevelCode = CDbl(strSegment(Position)) End Function Then you can: Select LevelCode(Code,1) as Level1, LevelCode(Code,2) as Level2..... -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lists at theopg.com Tue May 11 13:48:12 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:48:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <40A10E2D.7060807@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000201c43788$8a4cdeb0$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Hello folks... Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... E.g. Code Parent 1 1.1 1 1.2 1 1.3 1 1.2.1 1.2 1.2.2 1.2 1.1.1 1.1 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 Etc. becomes something like L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a value in level 5 etc. The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is driven primarily by saved SQL strings... Any ideas ??? Cheers Mark From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue May 11 22:56:27 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:56:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work Message-ID: <00d501c437d6$b8b64ae0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of a particular date appear in a table In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it keeps showing 0 (Zero) Dim intX As integer intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) MsgBox intX The table tblOffences is an existing table the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) I have checked spelling of field names many times and have even copied and pasted the field names to guarantee spelling. I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. Just can't get it to work Any suggestions? Many thanks Darren From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue May 11 23:38:06 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 04:38:06 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables Message-ID: Hello All, After reading everyone's response...I see the benefit to each suggestion...but the reason listed below puzzles me. When you say 'nuke' the data...do you mean deleting all rows?..and if so...why not just delete from the tables you want. I do something similar...on a smaller scale(30 to 40 concurrent users). FE on the user machine...BE on the network...when the FE opens...it checks for a new FE...copies down if so...if not checks links...relinks as necessary...and if it is the first time they are launching today...it copies all lookup tables from the BE to the FE...and all lookups are done locally. Initial startup takes about 20 seconds...but this is acceptable for my users. I did this for speed of the lookups...and didn't see the need to put in a 3rd db. Not sure if it is even relevent since I don't understand the reason. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Managing Lookup Tables >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:10:04 -0400 > >I have been trying to devise a cool way of managing lookup tables v. >"data" tables. I.e. PaymentTypes v. Payments. It occurred to me that I >could maybe link to two different back ends, one containing only the >lookup tables and the other containing only the data tables. What I >don't like about this approach is that I tend to define everything I can >at the table level -- Caption, lookup, validation criteria, etc. etc.. I >know this is controversial, and I don't want to rekindle those threads. >What I am wondering instead is, Suppose I link the front end to the data >database, and then link it in turn to the lookups database. I'm going to >build 3 toy databases to check this out, but I'm wondering if anyone can >see any significant problems in this approach. > >My basic reason for wanting to do this is so that I can freely nuke all >the data in the data database, while preserving all the data in the >lookup database. > >Insights, advice, and cash donations appreciated :) >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Tue May 11 23:58:15 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:58:15 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908871B@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this is off the top of my head, is that some expressions require dates to be in US format, so you may have to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember Stephen Bond NZ > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > Hello all > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > a particular date appear in a table > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > Dim intX As integer > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > MsgBox intX > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > even copied and pasted > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > Just can't get it to work > > Any suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 12 00:06:40 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:06:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908871B@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <015801c437de$e961baa0$48619a89@DDICK> Thanks for the reply Stephen No joy on the Hash character :-(( The date format doesn't change it either ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bond" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). > so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" > 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this > is off the top of my head, is that some expressions > require dates to be in US format, so you may have > to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") > > This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember > > Stephen Bond > NZ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > > To: AccessD List > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > Hello all > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > > a particular date appear in a table > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > Dim intX As integer > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > MsgBox intX > > > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > > even copied and pasted > > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > > > Just can't get it to work > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 00:30:14 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040512053014.90567.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Stephen, that's exactly what I mean, the users need the database container. There's no where in the code anything that hides the db container. About you're recomendation...I know! I've told about this app on this list before and it's horrible however the customer is satisfied with it and will not invest an eurocent to improve it. Oh, BTW I'm the developer how inherited this this .... 'application' thanx anyway. Sander PS: did I mention that this app handles CORE-BUSINESS?! "Pickering, Stephen" wrote: Sander, Do you mean that in the previous version, the database container was not hidden on startup? The behavior you describe suggests that the Database Window is being hidden in code (since you can bypass the AutoExec routine by holding down the Shift key on startup). I don't recommend users poking around in the database container, but it sounds like you've been doing it for some time. Look at the AutoExec macro and see what code is executing on Startup. I'll bet that somewhere in that code is the line that hides the database container. Is it not possible to either contact the developer, or have a developer, either in your shop or from outside, look at the Access file and make the modifications you require, without sending the users to the Container? That would likely be your best bet. HTH, Steve -----S D's Original Message----- Hi group, we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot open the database window. In order to see the database window I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. This application is so worthless that the users need access to the database window in order to work with the application (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) How is it possible that I do not see the database window (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? TIA Sander -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed May 12 00:35:18 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040512053518.44060.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Patti, I don't think this will work because the menu is also different from standard...I'll give it go anyway. Regards, Sander PS: there is no code in the app that changes the layout of the menu's "O'Connor, Patricia " wrote: Ran into this last month. The database window is probably hidden in a lower quadrant. Go into the application go to toolbar WINDOWS select tile - the database window should appear. Move it to the upper left quadrant of screen and close . When you open it should be where you can see it. HTH Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 09:22 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! > > Hi group, > > we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with > A2002. So I've migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to > A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! > > Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I cannot > open the database window. In order to see the database window > I need to open Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the > FE WITH SHIFT pressed. After that I see the database window > (off course) and I can manually open the startpage. > > This application is so worthless that the users need access > to the database window in order to work with the application > (at one point they are using the immediate window to reassign > a variable and press F5!!!!!!!) > > How is it possible that I do not see the database window > (it's not the option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? > > TIA > > Sander > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 12 01:15:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:15:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work In-Reply-To: <00d501c437d6$b8b64ae0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <40A24D97.14877.1D3E4B3@localhost> On 12 May 2004 at 13:56, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of a particular date appear in a table > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > Dim intX As integer > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > MsgBox intX > Try intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Datevalue(Me!txtOffenceDate)) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 12 01:26:53 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:26:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work References: <40A24D97.14877.1D3E4B3@localhost> Message-ID: <01ad01c437ea$1d9f4a70$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Stuart No Joy But the good news is Stephen Bond gave me an example off list and it works well Many thanks for the response Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > On 12 May 2004 at 13:56, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hello all > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of a particular date appear in a table > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > Dim intX As integer > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > MsgBox intX > > > > Try > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = " & > Datevalue(Me!txtOffenceDate)) > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 12 02:02:31 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:02:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work In-Reply-To: <015801c437de$e961baa0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000001c437ef$181b4bd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hi Darren I think you need both of Stephen's suggestions. Try this: intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = #" & Format(Me!txtOffenceDate,"mm/dd/yy") & "#") Have a great day. SYWWE -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 12 May 2004 06:07 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > Thanks for the reply Stephen > No joy on the Hash character :-(( > > The date format doesn't change it either > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Bond" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:58 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). > > so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" > > 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this > > is off the top of my head, is that some expressions > > require dates to be in US format, so you may have > > to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") > > > > This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember > > > > Stephen Bond > > NZ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > > > To: AccessD List > > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > > > > Hello all > > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > > > a particular date appear in a table > > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > > > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > > > Dim intX As integer > > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > > > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > > MsgBox intX > > > > > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > > > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > > > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > > > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > > > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > > > > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > > > even copied and pasted > > > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > > > > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > > > > > Just can't get it to work > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Wed May 12 03:01:19 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:01:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECC11@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 02:41:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:41:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <312555825.20040512094124@cactus.dk> Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 03:51:00 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:51:00 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] For .Net freaks: Mono beta is out Message-ID: <1056731719.20040512105100@cactus.dk> Hi all For those who don't know, Mono is an open source project that aims to create cross-platform versions of: - a C# compiler - the Common Language Runtime (CLR) - most of the .NET Framework's class library, including ADO.NET and ASP.NET ASP.NET (including both Web Forms and Web Services) is advertised as being fully functional. The Mono project, which is sponsored by Novell (who bought out Ximian last year), have two more beta releases planned before the final release of Mono 1.0 on or about June 30, 2004. http://www.go-mono.com/ http://www.go-mono.com/download.html /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 05:34:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:34:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <000001c4379a$f2135120$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Message-ID: <14912948869.20040512123437@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > That was my very first choice :@) - problem is though that I can't rely > on the length as some branches are complex, e.g. 1.1.23.210.1 > I even created a query for each level, e.g. like *.* and not like *.*.* > but that also gave me problems :@( Well, why didn't you tell that initially? Try this: Select Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 1 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L1, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 2 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L2, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 3 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L3, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 4 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L4, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 5 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L5 From tblCodes; This assumes A2000+ or a substitute for Replace(). /gustav > How about > > Select > Left(Code, 1) As L1, > Left(Code, 3) As L2, > Left(Code, 5) As L3, > Left(Code, 7) As L4, > Left(Code, 9) As L5 > From > tblCodes; > > It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... > /gustav >> Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't >> figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which >> are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 >> columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for >> that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... >> E.g. >> Code Parent >> 1 >> 1.1 1 >> 1.2 1 >> 1.3 1 >> 1.2.1 1.2 >> 1.2.2 1.2 >> 1.1.1 1.1 >> 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 >> 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 >> Etc. becomes something like >> L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 >> 1 1 1 1 1 >> 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 >> 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 >> This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up >> to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. >> Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a >> value in level 5 etc. >> The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where >> the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. >> Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid >> temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as >> (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is >> driven primarily by saved SQL strings... From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 06:59:45 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:59:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Hi All, I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) up to an event procedure. I.e. frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... Can anyone help? TIA Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed May 12 07:03:45 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:33:45 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] OT: For .Net freaks: Mono beta is out Message-ID: Groovy. Will be interesting to see how it goes. A -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 6:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] For .Net freaks: Mono beta is out Hi all For those who don't know, Mono is an open source project that aims to create cross-platform versions of: - a C# compiler - the Common Language Runtime (CLR) - most of the .NET Framework's class library, including ADO.NET and ASP.NET ASP.NET (including both Web Forms and Web Services) is advertised as being fully functional. The Mono project, which is sponsored by Novell (who bought out Ximian last year), have two more beta releases planned before the final release of Mono 1.0 on or about June 30, 2004. http://www.go-mono.com/ http://www.go-mono.com/download.html /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 07:12:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:12:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too much type ahead in RTF box Message-ID: <7118833761.20040512141242@cactus.dk> Hi all A client has an A97 app where they can type in formatted comments in an RTF box bound to a memo field. The box is the standard MS Rich Text Box. OS is Win98. It works fine except that some users claim that they occasionally experience that they can type the first line beyond the right side of the frame - the line is not broken until they do something else (click another control, browse records, select menu etc.). I cannot replicate the error here and have no idea what to look for or where to look for a solution. Has anyone seen something similar? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 07:20:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:20:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16019297298.20040512142026@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? /gustav > I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) > up to an event procedure. > I.e. > frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" > Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I > change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens > the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). > I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 07:36:07 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:36:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Yes it has Gustav. Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:20 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? /gustav > I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) > up to an event procedure. > I.e. > frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" > Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I > change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens > the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). > I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 07:44:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:44:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <920761703.20040512144450@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 12 07:39:35 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:39:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work References: <000001c437ef$181b4bd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <006401c4381f$7e98c7e0$12669a89@DDICK> Hi Andy Thanks for the response Yep that's what I actually put in place. Thanks to Stephen - Yes I will SYWYE DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > Hi Darren > > I think you need both of Stephen's suggestions. Try this: > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] = #" & > Format(Me!txtOffenceDate,"mm/dd/yy") & "#") > > Have a great day. > SYWWE > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > > Sent: 12 May 2004 06:07 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > Thanks for the reply Stephen > > No joy on the Hash character :-(( > > > > The date format doesn't change it either > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen Bond" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:58 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > > 1. Surround the date with the hash sign (#). > > > so, "[OffenceDate] = #" & Me!txtOffenceDate) & "#" > > > 2. The other thing that comes to mind, and this > > > is off the top of my head, is that some expressions > > > require dates to be in US format, so you may have > > > to do this to Format(Me!txtOffenceDate),"mm/dd/yyyy") > > > > > > This might apply to SQL sattements only, can't remember > > > > > > Stephen Bond > > > NZ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 3:56 p.m. > > > > To: AccessD List > > > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Can't Get DCount to work > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all > > > > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here? > > > > I am trying to use dcount to determine how many occurrence of > > > > a particular date appear in a table > > > > In my test table there are 8 records with the date 11/05/2004 > > > > So... In my code below, Msgbox intX should show 8 but it > > > > keeps showing 0 (Zero) > > > > > > > > Dim intX As integer > > > > intX = DCount("[OffenceDate]", "tblOffences", "[OffenceDate] > > > > = " & Me!txtOffenceDate) > > > > MsgBox intX > > > > > > > > The table tblOffences is an existing table > > > > the field OffenceDate is an existing field Data > > > > Type:Date/Time formatted dd/mm/yyyy > > > > The control on my form txtOffenceDate is an existing control > > > > (formatted dd/mm/yyyy) > > > > > > > > I have checked spelling of field names many times and have > > > > even copied and pasted > > > > the field names to guarantee spelling. > > > > > > > > I have turned 'on and off' the formatting in various combinations. > > > > > > > > Just can't get it to work > > > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gdb at AllenandAllen.com Wed May 12 07:54:12 2004 From: gdb at AllenandAllen.com (Boehm, Gary D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:54:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 08:41:17 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:41:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 12 08:55:05 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:55:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Gary, here's how to combine two fields into one. Watch for line wrap. FullName: [tblName]![LastName] & ", " & [tblName]![FirstName] Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gdb at AllenandAllen.com Wed May 12 09:06:50 2004 From: gdb at AllenandAllen.com (Boehm, Gary D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:06:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Thanks Mark. Is that a new field in the query or a field in the report? Gary -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Gary, here's how to combine two fields into one. Watch for line wrap. FullName: [tblName]![LastName] & ", " & [tblName]![FirstName] Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 12 09:06:09 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:06:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Message-ID: Query. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thanks Mark. Is that a new field in the query or a field in the report? Gary -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Gary, here's how to combine two fields into one. Watch for line wrap. FullName: [tblName]![LastName] & ", " & [tblName]![FirstName] Mark -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at allenandallen.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Thank you Roz, that did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the last and first names into one field so I had to group three ways, by last name, by first name and by case number but the report now does what we need it to do. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hi Gary You need to group your report by both name and case number. Have a grouping level of name but with no sections (header or footer). Attach your sections to the case number grouping level - all your details will appear per case number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: Boehm, Gary D. [mailto:gdb at AllenandAllen.com] Sent: 11 May 2004 18:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report - Grouping and Sorting - Cross posted Hello all, from the perpetual newbie. I've run a query on the fields listed below (among others) from several tables in a database, in order to list open items from a checklist (description). LastName FirstName CaseNumber Description CloseDate The goal is to list open checklist items and sort by name. The problem is that there are unique case numbers but identical names across the unique case numbers. I need to group and sort by name but when I do that, it combines identical names under one case number. How can I tell Access to group by case number but sort by name? Access 2002 SP-2 Gary Boehm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 09:10:27 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:10:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <312555825.20040512094124@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Could this be a response to the lack of good support staff in companies these days? I can't imagine FMS would spend the money to create and market this item unless they had at first conducted some market research supporting the need for it. But, then again, at that cost how many would they really have to sell to cover their cost? :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 09:27:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:27:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15826947668.20040512162756@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan OK. No more ideas, except that I remember some add-in which would "reattach" missing [Event Procedure] settings. It may have been from Smart Access. It could give you some hints but I can't find it. /gustav > Yes it does Gustav, > The code is also programatically created.. > It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event > procedure...and being able to save it?! > Thanks > Ryan From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 12 10:21:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:21:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: FMS seems to make products primarily aimed at wannabe developers who don't have the knowledge to do it themselves and don't know any better than to spend that much money. I stopped buying their stuff years ago when they first became drastically overpriced and overloaded with "features" I had no use for. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 12 10:31:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:31:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAE90@main2.marlow.com> LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 12 11:09:32 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:09:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Thanks Gustav, I'll have a look for that. Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 15:27 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan OK. No more ideas, except that I remember some add-in which would "reattach" missing [Event Procedure] settings. It may have been from Smart Access. It could give you some hints but I can't find it. /gustav > Yes it does Gustav, > The code is also programatically created.. > It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event > procedure...and being able to save it?! > Thanks > Ryan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. 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From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed May 12 11:19:37 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:19:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to do it manually. Any help greatly appreciated. TIA Jeff Barrows From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed May 12 11:31:41 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:31:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <30513623.1084376176046.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000301c4383e$9bc93880$de1811d8@danwaters> In Defense Of: FMS Hey! I like the Access Analyzer program. Even if I knew how, could I make my own in 4 - 6 hours? No. Great error catcher and time saver! FMS is just doing what any company SHOULD do - look for a customer need for a product in the same market scope. They must have good reason to believe that this will sell and be useful to someone (even at this price!). I'm sure part of their activity is based on their market for Analyzer and their other products being already saturated. I do like Analyzer! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 12 11:38:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:38:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <14834801622.20040512183850@cactus.dk> Hi Jeff The easiest method is to duplicate the report and set the dupe to print to a specific printer (your fax printer). Not very fancy, but it is bulletproof. /gustav > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer default to go > to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to do it manually. > Any help greatly appreciated. > TIA > Jeff Barrows From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 12 11:44:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:44:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAE95@main2.marlow.com> I am probably a little biased, since they president of FMS came to a Metroplex Access Developers meeting, to demonstrate Analyzer. I wasn't all that impressed with what it did (because every feature he showed, I could 'see' the code used to do it, in my head), but what tipped the scales is that he handed out demo disks, of all sorts of other FMS 'tools'. I am not kidding you, I tried about 5 of them. 4 out of the 5 kicked up errors, while running as a Demo! Didn't put a lot of faith into their products for me. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In Defense Of: FMS Hey! I like the Access Analyzer program. Even if I knew how, could I make my own in 4 - 6 hours? No. Great error catcher and time saver! FMS is just doing what any company SHOULD do - look for a customer need for a product in the same market scope. They must have good reason to believe that this will sell and be useful to someone (even at this price!). I'm sure part of their activity is based on their market for Analyzer and their other products being already saturated. I do like Analyzer! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed May 12 11:46:32 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:46:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138402@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Thanks Dan... I was beginning to think I was the only one that liked FMS products. I too like the Access Analyzer, it has saved me many hours of work. I also like the Total Access Memo - it allows RFT format for memo fields, and includes the the ability to embedded charts and graphs. I also like the Access Components. The controls I use the most are the progress bar and the colored buttons. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In Defense Of: FMS Hey! I like the Access Analyzer program. Even if I knew how, could I make my own in 4 - 6 hours? No. Great error catcher and time saver! FMS is just doing what any company SHOULD do - look for a customer need for a product in the same market scope. They must have good reason to believe that this will sell and be useful to someone (even at this price!). I'm sure part of their activity is based on their market for Analyzer and their other products being already saturated. I do like Analyzer! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? LOL. I personally never understood how FMS stays in business. Of all the stuff I have seen from them, it either didn't work, or was WAY over priced. By over priced, I mean it would cost me less 'time' to roll my own, then to use theirs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Hi all If you can't manage to supply a bat-file and an application shortcut for your clients' users, rescue is at hand: http://www.fmsinc.com/products/startup/index.asp It will, though, cost you USD 500 ... I guess some of us are selling some of our services at bargain prices. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed May 12 12:17:41 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:17:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a501c43845$09030bf0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> >The code is also programatically created.. > >It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event >procedure...and being able to save it?! If you want to save the changes, you need to make these changes in design view. If you make them in form view, they are considered runtime changes, and are discarded when the form is closed (which also happens when you change it to design view). -Ken From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed May 12 12:33:57 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:03:57 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure References: Message-ID: <012301c43847$65463570$ef1865cb@winxp> Ryan, If you do it when the form is in design view and then Save, the effect will be permanent. The following sample code, executed from a module external to the form in question, will do the needful (CmdTest is the name of a command button on form named F_Test)- DoCmd.OpenForm "F_Test", acDesign Forms("F_Test")("CmdTest").OnClick = _ "[Event Procedure]" DoCmd.Close acForm, "F_Test", acSaveYes Could you kindly try it out and let me know ? Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 17:29 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi All, I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) up to an event procedure. I.e. frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... Can anyone help? TIA Ryan From lists at theopg.com Wed May 12 12:47:39 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:47:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <14912948869.20040512123437@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c43849$381fc230$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Sorry Gustav :@( I had tried a lot of things... This morning I gave up and resorted to using VBA to populate a table as required. It's actually (probbaly) quicker as the table only gets updated when the code structure changes and so, when running reports there is no need anymore to build the structure... Thanks again, and sorry for not being clearer... I had tried for most of the afternoon and was trying to avoid sending a huge email... Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 12 May 2004 11:35 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query Hi Mark > That was my very first choice :@) - problem is though that I can't > rely on the length as some branches are complex, e.g. 1.1.23.210.1 > I even created a query for each level, e.g. like *.* and not like > *.*.* but that also gave me problems :@( Well, why didn't you tell that initially? Try this: Select Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 1 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L1, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 2 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L2, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 3 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L3, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 4 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L4, Left(Code, InStr(Replace(Code, ".", "!", 1, 5 - 1) & ".", ".") - 1) As L5 From tblCodes; This assumes A2000+ or a substitute for Replace(). /gustav > How about > > Select > Left(Code, 1) As L1, > Left(Code, 3) As L2, > Left(Code, 5) As L3, > Left(Code, 7) As L4, > Left(Code, 9) As L5 > From > tblCodes; > > It looks too simple, but according to your specs ... > /gustav >> Sorry if this has been done before but my heads killing and I can't >> figure it at all. Using AXP etc. I have a list of codes, some of which >> are parents and some children (going down 5 levels). What I want is 5 >> columns (1 for each level), each containing not only the codes for >> that level, but all the codes from the higher levels... >> E.g. >> Code Parent >> 1 >> 1.1 1 >> 1.2 1 >> 1.3 1 >> 1.2.1 1.2 >> 1.2.2 1.2 >> 1.1.1 1.1 >> 1.1.1.1 1.1.1 >> 1.1.1.1.1 1.1.1.1 >> Etc. becomes something like >> L1 L2 L3 L4 L5 >> 1 1 1 1 1 >> 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 >> 1 1.2 1.2.1 1.2.1 1.2.1 >> This is for dumping into a pivot in Excel and so I can roll totals up >> to selected levels, i.e. each record has a column for each level etc. >> Some code structures don't go down 5 levels but I still need to show a >> value in level 5 etc. >> The problem is column 5 must be unique but in some cases (i.e.) where >> the codes are less than 5 levels deep) I get duplicates. >> Sorry if all this sounds a bit odd... It is :@) I am trying to avoid >> temp tables and code as I'm trying to keep it all data driven as >> (hopefully) this is going to fit an existing reporting tool which is >> driven primarily by saved SQL strings... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 12:46:02 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:46:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138402@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 12 13:06:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAE97@main2.marlow.com> Like I said, it was first impression with FMS. My first impression was horrible, so I know I am biased. It is a matter of time vs. money. It is also a matter of necessity. I do develop totally Access systems, but a majority of my work usually only uses Access as a BE. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Wed May 12 15:10:56 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:10:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BF02@natexch.jenkens.com> I have a report and I have noticed that my dates are sorting in numerical order. This is not a common sort of this report, so I do not know how long it has been doing this. I have even tried to sort by Cdate(MyDate) to see if explicitly defining it as a date helps, but it is still sorting like this: 01/01/2005 01/05/2003 01/13/2004 02/03/2003 This is an Access XP front end connecting to a SQL backend. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 12 15:19:08 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:19:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BF02@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <20040512201907.XVVE17779.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Is the report grouped? I've seen this in grouped reports -- you just have to add another grouping level that "sorts" by year. If that's not the problem, sorry! Susan H. I have a report and I have noticed that my dates are sorting in numerical order. This is not a common sort of this report, so I do not know how long it has been doing this. I have even tried to sort by Cdate(MyDate) to see if explicitly defining it as a date helps, but it is still sorting like this: 01/01/2005 01/05/2003 01/13/2004 02/03/2003 This is an Access XP front end connecting to a SQL backend. From DElam at jenkens.com Wed May 12 15:27:05 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:27:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BF04@natexch.jenkens.com> The grouping was the trick. This is dynamically sorted depending on user options. I had it sorting by prefix characters as that is what is needed for the most common sort. When I changes it to each value it started sorting correctly. I have set that as an option now in the code that sets the sort. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Dates in Numerical order Is the report grouped? I've seen this in grouped reports -- you just have to add another grouping level that "sorts" by year. If that's not the problem, sorry! Susan H. I have a report and I have noticed that my dates are sorting in numerical order. This is not a common sort of this report, so I do not know how long it has been doing this. I have even tried to sort by Cdate(MyDate) to see if explicitly defining it as a date helps, but it is still sorting like this: 01/01/2005 01/05/2003 01/13/2004 02/03/2003 This is an Access XP front end connecting to a SQL backend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 12 16:18:14 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:18:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Message-ID: Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't think they do a good job of it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed May 12 16:32:45 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:32:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? References: Message-ID: <004101c43868$aa5e5680$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I have the '97 Suite somewhere ...used to use the Analyzer and Detective tools quite a bit when doing y2k conversions and db documentation ...but as I learned more and the price escalated, I just didn't feel it was worth the money when I moved to AXP ...and I really don't mind paying for value when it comes to tools ...never used a single one of their components since they were imo bloat code when better vba versions were available ...incorporated the Memo in a beta db once but discarded it for a better solution ...just too little for too much :( ...if the tools were a tenth the price they'd probably sell like hot cakes ...but its their business, not mine. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work > with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade > path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The > tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our > office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for > anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as > it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started > out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't > think they do a good job of it. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > > > Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access > developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access > Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I > have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also > use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and > that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy > something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is > money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue > with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not > upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of > Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be > using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). > > I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of > chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic > show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem > which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access > apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy > this product. Fine with me. > > I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in > the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a > great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need > help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in > fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people > don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken > and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after > numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion > was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - > that's very cool. > > John > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 12 16:55:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:55:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: why do you need to save it? In the open, just set the property that you want to hook. That simple. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 12 17:09:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:09:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003267E@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <001701c4386d$c53b3900$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From demulling at centurytel.net Wed May 12 20:42:31 2004 From: demulling at centurytel.net (Demulling Family) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:42:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Startup Properties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A2D287.1020306@centurytel.net> Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: >Jeffrey, that is precisely what I'm trying to do...thanks. I'm using a >launcher application to open the front end so your approach should work just >fine for me. It appears that you are doing the same...is this correct? > > >Mark > > Mark what am I doing is placing it the splash screen of the actual program and the option only comes up if in the user table the current user on the pc is setup as a programmer/admin. This allows me to go in and look at code if someone reports an error or is having trouble. It has proven very useful when I roll out a new program at work. From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 22:47:33 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:47:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thought so too. They had a sweet (well at least not real bitter) deal at one time. IIRC it was some coupon in the A97 Suite that gave me 40% off of the A2k version if I ordered in some inane timeframe. I tried to order the upgrade but I was a couple of months late and they wouldn't negotiate. I didn't either. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't think they do a good job of it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy this product. Fine with me. I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - that's very cool. John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed May 12 22:47:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:47:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? In-Reply-To: <004101c43868$aa5e5680$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I'd have to agree there! ...if the tools were a tenth the price they'd probably sell like hot cakes ...but its their business, not mine. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > Don't hold your breath for a sweet deal, John. The 97 tools don't work > with 2000 and up and the XP tools don't work with 97 and the upgrade > path makes little or no difference in the price of the new version. The > tools have become outrageously expensive in my view, and even in our > office, we only have a single copy because we almost never use them for > anything. I don't like the Analyzer. I think it's about as flakey as > it can be, and I see little point in their other tools. They started > out as Access tools, but now they try to be VB/VBA tools, and I don't > think they do a good job of it. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS gone nuts? > > > Just to clarify, I don't dislike FMS. I, in fact, own their Access > developer suite. I rarely use a lot of it but like Jim I like the Access > Components. I just have replaced them with native Access code when I > have the time to do so. I also like the RTF control capabilities. I also > use the analytical packages when I need to. Their products save time and > that is what justifies their existence. When I'm in a crunch I will buy > something that saves time me rather than develop it myself - time is > money and time is my life! I have rarely encountered an bug/crash issue > with their products. Problem with me is the upgrade cost. I will not > upgrade to have a copy that will work with every single version of > Access. So when A97 is no longer my major dev. platform I will not be > using FMS tools (unless they give me a sweeeet deal). > > I get their flyers and noticed this new startup tool and kind of > chuckled that they must monitor this forum because we do have the topic > show up every now and then. But like Gustav mentioned, it is a problem > which is easily solved. I just think there are people managing Access > apps & DBs that don't code and can't follow that logic so they will buy > this product. Fine with me. > > I appreciate that other people here roll their own. Remember, we have in > the mist of this list some very talented people! That's why it is a > great list talented people that aren't too brash with people that need > help. Some lists I am on are not so nice to people that need help - in > fact the responses can be downright rude and nasty. Even when people > don't agree on a subject here they stay civil about it. For instance Ken > and Drew were passionately debating some issue awhile ago and even after > numerous attempts at trying to convince each other that their opinion > was the correct opinion neither one of them started flaming the other - > that's very cool. > > John > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu May 13 03:44:24 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:44:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: ...I wish it was that simple. We are using code to generate code and all is fine except that the hook up between the control and it's event is not being saved... This needs to be done at design time or the object of what we are trying to do is defeated. (which is to programatically create the events for a large number of controls across many forms) Ryan "John W. Colby" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 22:55 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure why do you need to save it? In the open, just set the property that you want to hook. That simple. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu May 13 05:30:20 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:30:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Message-ID: Thanks to those who responded I managed to get this to work... Essentially, what needs to happen is the control needs to have the event hooked up when it is first programatically designed... i.e Set loBtn = CreateControl(strFormName, acCommandButton, acDetail) With loBtn .name = "cmdPrint" .Caption = "Print" .OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End With Then 'CreateEventProc' will work. Cheers Ryan rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 13/05/2004 09:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure ...I wish it was that simple. We are using code to generate code and all is fine except that the hook up between the control and it's event is not being saved... This needs to be done at design time or the object of what we are trying to do is defeated. (which is to programatically create the events for a large number of controls across many forms) Ryan "John W. Colby" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 22:55 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure why do you need to save it? In the open, just set the property that you want to hook. That simple. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Yes it does Gustav, The code is also programatically created.. It's now a matter of hooking the event property (onclick) up to the event procedure...and being able to save it?! Thanks Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 12/05/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure Hi Ryan And does it have some associated code? (which comes from where?) /gustav > Yes it has Gustav. --- > Is the form's HasModule property been set to True? > /gustav >> I'm trying to programatically 'hook' an event from a control (on a form) >> up to an event procedure. >> I.e. >> frm.Form.Controls("optValue").OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" >> Which works fine, until the form is taken out of 'form view'. I.e. if I >> change to design view for the form, or close the form. Once that happens >> the on click property is returned to being empty (or unhooked). >> I've tried saving the form but this seems to make no difference... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 06:06:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:06:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Saving onClick event procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12116468119.20040513130649@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan So you are also designing and creating the controls from code? That you didn't tell ... Meanwhile, I located the Smart Access article. It is Fixing Broken Event Procedure Properties By Ken Getz Smart Access July 1996 p. 20. The add-ins were for Access 2.0 and 95 and were named FIXEVT16.MDA and FIXEVT32.MDA respectively and packed in the file "_GETZ32.EXE" on the companion diskette used at those days - I just found it in a dusty box. I used the Access 2.0 version which worked well - but both versions were meant to fix missing procedures for existing controls. I guess the A95 version can be used or at least easily modified for newer Access versions. /gustav > Thanks to those who responded I managed to get this to work... > Essentially, what needs to happen is the control needs to have the event > hooked up when it is first programatically designed... > i.e > Set loBtn = CreateControl(strFormName, acCommandButton, acDetail) > With loBtn > .name = "cmdPrint" > .Caption = "Print" > .OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" > End With > Then 'CreateEventProc' will work. > Cheers > Ryan From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 05:23:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:23:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Too many self joins... Help - should be a simple query In-Reply-To: <000901c43849$381fc230$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> References: <000901c43849$381fc230$ca0d6bd5@netboxxp> Message-ID: <4213893367.20040513122354@cactus.dk> Hi Mark No problem, glad you got it solved! /gustav > Sorry Gustav :@( > I had tried a lot of things... This morning I gave up and resorted to > using VBA to populate a table as required. It's actually (probbaly) > quicker as the table only gets updated when the code structure changes > and so, when running reports there is no need anymore to build the > structure... > Thanks again, and sorry for not being clearer... I had tried for most of > the afternoon and was trying to avoid sending a huge email... From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 07:38:20 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:38:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138407@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. This would apply to the list box and combo box. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a single decimal place in the list. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. I am running out of hair to pull out. Paul Baumann -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 13 08:23:20 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:23:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8301@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I think you'll have to do a couple of things. 1/ The font used in the list/combo will have to be non-proportional, like Courier New. Then you can figure out how many digits will display in the list. 2/ In the query that populates the list you'll need to pad your numeric string with spaces. A function something like... (Air code) Function strPad(nLen as Integer, nNumber as Long) as String Dim strResult as String strResult = Cstr(nNumber) strResult = String( nLen - Len(strResult," ") & strResult strPad = strResult End Function HTH Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 13 08:30:44 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:30:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8303@xlivmbx12.aig.com> PS. Instead of the hand-rolled strPad function you could use the built in Rset function. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 08:44:11 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:44:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138408@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Lambert, I have used similar code before, however, I didn't take the font into consideration. All my results didn't look right. I usually use Arial because it's the font used for our company logo. I changed the font as you suggested and it works well. Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? I think you'll have to do a couple of things. 1/ The font used in the list/combo will have to be non-proportional, like Courier New. Then you can figure out how many digits will display in the list. 2/ In the query that populates the list you'll need to pad your numeric string with spaces. A function something like... (Air code) Function strPad(nLen as Integer, nNumber as Long) as String Dim strResult as String strResult = Cstr(nNumber) strResult = String( nLen - Len(strResult," ") & strResult strPad = strResult End Function HTH Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 08:24:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:24:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138407@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138407@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <14124744871.20040513152446@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. The only way I've found to do this is to use a font where all digits have the same width like MS Sans Serif. Further, in this font, a digit has twice the width of a space which equals that of decimal and thousand separators. Having decided a maximum number you can calculate the maximum width of the formatted number, and for any number prefix the normally formatted number (a string) with single and double spaces to obtain a concatenated string of the same visual width for any number. Here is an example from a query used as rowsource for a combobox with formatting to two decimals: Format([Amount],Space(15-2*Len(Format([Amount],"0.00"))-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0.00") AS SMin and here is an example with formatting to zero decimals: Format([Amount],Space(14-2*Len([Amount])-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0") AS SMin For other fonts where digits may have individual widths you would have to expand this to count the occurrence of each digit and then compensate with spaces. /gustav > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 08:50:35 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:50:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C138409@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Gustav, Thanks, I'll try it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Hi Jim > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. The only way I've found to do this is to use a font where all digits have the same width like MS Sans Serif. Further, in this font, a digit has twice the width of a space which equals that of decimal and thousand separators. Having decided a maximum number you can calculate the maximum width of the formatted number, and for any number prefix the normally formatted number (a string) with single and double spaces to obtain a concatenated string of the same visual width for any number. Here is an example from a query used as rowsource for a combobox with formatting to two decimals: Format([Amount],Space(15-2*Len(Format([Amount],"0.00"))-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0.00") AS SMin and here is an example with formatting to zero decimals: Format([Amount],Space(14-2*Len([Amount])-Abs([Amount]>1000)) & "#,##0") AS SMin For other fonts where digits may have individual widths you would have to expand this to count the occurrence of each digit and then compensate with spaces. /gustav > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 08:51:39 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:51:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C13840A@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I'm not familiar with the Rset function. How does it work? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? PS. Instead of the hand-rolled strPad function you could use the built in Rset function. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > single decimal place in the list. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > Paul Baumann > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 13 09:11:26 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:11:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an 'EndDate' on the form. I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution for both would be great. Thanks! John W Clark From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu May 13 09:21:23 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:21:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: SELECT Count(<>) AS MyCount FROM <> WHERE datLoginDate Between #<># and #<>#; "John Clark" cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/13/2004 09:11 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an 'EndDate' on the form. I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution for both would be great. Thanks! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu May 13 09:22:14 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:22:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C13840B@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I would count the records in the query. If you know the number of records in the datasheet view of the query, a count using either another query or DCount function would give you the results to need. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an 'EndDate' on the form. I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution for both would be great. Thanks! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lister at actuarial-files.com Thu May 13 09:37:59 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:37:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font Message-ID: <00a301c438f7$f66de010$66976bce@ralf> Don't archive! Hello, sorry for this OT. I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? TIA Saludos Ralf From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 09:40:43 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:40:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition References: Message-ID: <002601c438f8$45463390$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...off the top and not tested Dim rs1 As Recordset Set rs1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("SELECT * FROM <> WHERE_ datLoginDate Between #<># and #<>#;", dbOpenDynaset, dbReadOnly) With rs1 .MoveLast Me!txtCount = .RecordCount End With William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition > I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records > logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I > have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records > 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an > 'EndDate' on the form. > > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? > > This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution > for both would be great. > > Thanks! > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu May 13 09:42:32 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:42:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8307@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Here's the example form the help file... Dim MyString MyString = "0123456789" ' Initialize string. Rset MyString = "Right->" ' MyString contains " Right->". Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > I'm not familiar with the Rset function. > How does it work? > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, > Lambert > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > PS. > > Instead of the hand-rolled strPad function you could use the built in Rset > function. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Hewson [SMTP:JHewson at karta.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:38 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > > > > To piggyback on this thread, I have a question. > > How can you format a numeric column to align on the right? > > I want numbers to look like numbers - not text. > > This would apply to the list box and combo box. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:57 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > > > > Listbox rows are essentially strings. You need to use the Format$() > > function to convert the value to a string in the query if you want a > > single decimal place in the list. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:36 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Format a numeric column in a list box? > > > > > > I have a list box in which one of the fields is a number with one > > decimal place. The table that the value is coming from is set to one > > decimal place. I have set the format for the column in the query that > > selects the data for the list box to one decimal place. But, when I open > > the form the column in the list box displays 2 decimal places. > > > > I am running out of hair to pull out. > > > > Paul Baumann > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 09:46:22 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:46:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font References: <00a301c438f7$f66de010$66976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <002e01c438f9$0f6a8db0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/math.html William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralf Lister" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:37 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font Don't archive! Hello, sorry for this OT. I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? TIA Saludos Ralf -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 13 09:51:26 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:51:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font Message-ID: <16211003.1084459886489.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> not very good at maths but have a look a this link might help you a little..... http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=psfchoice Paul Message date : May 13 2004, 03:41 PM >From : "Ralf Lister" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] OT: Math Font Don't archive! Hello, sorry for this OT. I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? TIA Saludos Ralf -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From CMackin at Quiznos.com Thu May 13 09:55:44 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:55:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127AF@bross.quiznos.net> If you already have the query that gets the records you want, just use something like: Public Function GetRecCount() As Long Dim rst as ADODB.Recordset strSQL = "SELECT COUNT(*) FROM YourQueryName" Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strSQL, CurrentProject.Connection, adStatic GetRecCount = rst(0) rst.Close Set rst = nothing End Function You could of course pass the query name to the function and build the SQL string dynamically to make it a lot more globally useful, but this covers the basic concept. Chris Mackin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition > I thought this would be simpler, but...I need to get a count for records > logged in a given time period, and I seem to be at a loss. Basically, I > have a field called 'datLoginDate' and I want to find all records > 'logged' during a period, which I will get from a 'BegDate' and an > 'EndDate' on the form. > > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? > > This program is A97, but I am moving it over to A2K soon, so a solution > for both would be great. > > Thanks! > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Thu May 13 10:23:25 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:23:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE63050032681@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 10:23:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition In-Reply-To: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127AF@bross.quiznos.net> References: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127AF@bross.quiznos.net> Message-ID: <17431891106.20040513172352@cactus.dk> Hi John > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? The easy route: lngCount = DCount("*", "NameOfYourQuery") /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 11:50:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:50:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition In-Reply-To: <002601c438f8$45463390$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040513165035.MTSM15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I don't think you need the loop -- try a SELECT Count(*) Susan H. ...off the top and not tested Dim rs1 As Recordset Set rs1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("SELECT * FROM <> WHERE_ datLoginDate Between #<># and #<>#;", dbOpenDynaset, dbReadOnly) With rs1 .MoveLast Me!txtCount = .RecordCount End With From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 11:52:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:52:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OpenReport in older versions Message-ID: <20040513165226.MVCU15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've just discovered that the OpenReport method doesn't support the acHidden constant in 2000 and earlier. Anyone know, off the top of our head, how to hide a report when opening? I'm headed for the language reference, but if anyone knows without looking, I'd appreciate it. :) Thanks! Susan H. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 13 12:13:18 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to - get a count for a condition Message-ID: Yup.....I was bein' dumb! I would have definitely done this on a report--I do it all the time--but I never thought of it on the form. It worked like a charm. Now I've just gotta pretty it up a bit. Thanks again Gustav! And, everyone else who posted, as well! Thank you! John W Clark >>> gustav at cactus.dk 5/13/2004 11:23:52 AM >>> Hi John > I first thought they wanted a list of the records, so I have a query > already that finds these records. And, I know from running the query, > how many records exist. But, how do I just get the number? The easy route: lngCount = DCount("*", "NameOfYourQuery") /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Thu May 13 12:15:02 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:15:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OpenReport in older versions Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD94127B1@bross.quiznos.net> Back in th eold days you had to do it this way: Open the report in preview and then Reports("TheReportIJustOpened").Visible = False Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OpenReport in older versions I've just discovered that the OpenReport method doesn't support the acHidden constant in 2000 and earlier. Anyone know, off the top of our head, how to hide a report when opening? I'm headed for the language reference, but if anyone knows without looking, I'd appreciate it. :) Thanks! Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 13 13:21:42 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:21:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Math Font References: <00a301c438f7$f66de010$66976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <40A3BCB6.1040409@shaw.ca> Or you could use MathML a form of XML http://www.w3.org/Math/XSL/pmathml2.xml http://www.w3.org/Math/XSL/ Ralf Lister wrote: >Don't archive! > >Hello, > >sorry for this OT. > >I'm kind of a mathematician. I'm looking for a free math font where e.g. I can name the set of the natural numbers with its correct symbol. Does anyone know where I can find this font ? > >TIA > >Saludos >Ralf > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Thu May 13 14:14:43 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:14:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not visible!! Message-ID: Well you can try these CTRL+F11 To toggle between a custom menu bar and a built-in menu bar Then try F11 or ALT+F1 To bring the Database window to the front ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 01:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window > not visible!! > > Hi Patti, > > I don't think this will work because the menu is also > different from standard...I'll give it go anyway. > > Regards, > > Sander > PS: there is no code in the app that changes the layout of the menu's > > "O'Connor, Patricia " wrote: > > Ran into this last month. > > The database window is probably hidden in a lower quadrant. > Go into the application go to toolbar WINDOWS select tile - > the database window should appear. Move it to the upper left > quadrant of screen and close . > > When you open it should be where you can see it. > HTH > Patti > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 09:22 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] Migrating to A2k2 => database window not > visible!! > > > > Hi group, > > > > we're in the proces of migrating to WinXP machines with > A2002. So I've > > migrated the database (2 db's, FE + BE) to > > A2002 and double clicked the FE and the startpage opened nicely! > > > > Everything works fine, everything! Great eh. EXCEPT, I > cannot open the > > database window. In order to see the database window I need to open > > Access 2002, click File, Open and point to the FE WITH > SHIFT pressed. > > After that I see the database window (off course) and I can > manually > > open the startpage. > > > > This application is so worthless that the users need access to the > > database window in order to work with the application (at one point > > they are using the immediate window to reassign a variable > and press > > F5!!!!!!!) > > > > How is it possible that I do not see the database window > (it's not the > > option in 'startup' I've checked that)??? > > > > TIA > > > > Sander > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu May 13 14:32:26 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:32:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Major hole in all symantec products References: Message-ID: <005b01c43921$05f51bb0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...Symantec products all found to have a major hole ...ring zero problem that allows total exposure ...updates are on-line William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 13 15:08:06 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:08:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE63050032681@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <000301c43926$043e0390$6401a8c0@COA3> Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 13 15:46:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:46:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: You may think that approach sucks, Steve, but you're doing fairly simple stuff with your example. I tried the printer object when we first moved to XP and discovered that for what we needed to do, it caused far more problems than it solved. I went back to the API calls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 13 16:30:15 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:30:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c43931$7f0f0cd0$6401a8c0@COA3> Charlotte: I like API calls as much as the next person (especially for something like the Common Dialog; the API keeps me from worrying about OCX versions), but the whole method of PrtDevMode/API solved *NOTHING* for me in Runtime or MDE, which is where I needed it. The Printers collection is only a partial panacea (if that makes any sense), but at least it can be used in an MDE. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code You may think that approach sucks, Steve, but you're doing fairly simple stuff with your example. I tried the printer object when we first moved to XP and discovered that for what we needed to do, it caused far more problems than it solved. I went back to the API calls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 13 17:07:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:07:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Message-ID: Ah, I don't think you had mentioned MDEs, or else I missed the reference. Yes, you don't really have many choices in that situation. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Charlotte: I like API calls as much as the next person (especially for something like the Common Dialog; the API keeps me from worrying about OCX versions), but the whole method of PrtDevMode/API solved *NOTHING* for me in Runtime or MDE, which is where I needed it. The Printers collection is only a partial panacea (if that makes any sense), but at least it can be used in an MDE. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code You may think that approach sucks, Steve, but you're doing fairly simple stuff with your example. I tried the printer object when we first moved to XP and discovered that for what we needed to do, it caused far more problems than it solved. I went back to the API calls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) [mailto:Developer at ultradnt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Controlling printers thru code basically sucks in version of Access prior to 2K2. You need to use the PRTDEVNAMES and PRTDEVMODE structures, which involve some horrible API calls. (and, since they operate in a report's design mode, they only work in regular MDBs, not runtime MDBs, or MDEs.) Start here http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0009.htm if you feel like torturing yourself. I know there are lots of fans of the older versions on this list, but to be able to code * Set rpt.printer= * in either an mdb or mde, made AccessXP a worthwhile upgrade for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Thanks for the idea, but I am going to have to go with seperate reports to print and fax, at least for now. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Wed 5/12/2004 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code Jeff If you use Outlook then Zetafax has an Outlook extension which allows you to behave as if you're sending an email (e.g. SendObject) but by addressing it to a fax number it gets sent as a fax. We use it all the time and it's way easier than setting printers. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Barrows > Sent: 12 May 2004 17:20 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Controling Printers thru code > > > How do I control which printer a report is going to thru code > in Access 97? In some instances, I need the report to go to > ZetaFax, and to do this I need to set the report's printer > default to go to the Zetafax Printer. What I need to be able > to do is change the printer selection back to the Windows > Default Printer, thru code, so that the users never have to > do it manually. > > Any help greatly appreciated. > > TIA > > Jeff Barrows > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 09:43:06 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:43:06 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <20040514134304.1AC5A262429@smtp.nildram.co.uk> I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to Word. I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Fri May 14 08:53:47 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:53:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: What if on the paste event in word you use paste special and then unformatted text? "Andy Lacey" k> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 05/14/2004 09:43 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to Word. I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Fri May 14 09:28:12 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCFC1ABA5@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Try using field codes with an if and include statements like this. { IF { MERGEFIELD fldChoice } ="N" "Statement if True" "Statement if False"} Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 10:43 To: Dba Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to Word. I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 10:35:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:35:17 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <20040514143514.7329825E156@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Well that was almost a bravissimo Jeff. Using Paste Special and telling it paste just text overcomes the table stuff but the merge field that's in the middle of what I'm pasting comes in as text too, ie <> as text, and the subsequent Mailmerge therefore ignores it. Great try Jeff, but not quite. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Date: 14/05/04 13:55 > > > What if on the paste event in word you use paste special and then > unformatted text? > > > > "Andy Lacey" > <andy at minstersystems.co.u To: Dba <AccessD at databaseadvisors.com> > k> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 05/14/2004 09:43 AM > Please respond to "Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving" > > > > > > > I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's > probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to > Word. > > I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want > to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The > alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily > alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge > fields. > My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc > specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 > columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The > second > and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate > a > column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the > table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word > Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a > Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into > my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is > a > complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I > only > want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life > of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, > but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would > do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? > Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 10:40:10 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:40:10 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Message-ID: <20040514144007.C983025E2D5@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Not on I'm afraid Christian. It's not just a case of popping in one of two values. It's a case of saying if x=n and y=nn then print this paragraph, if x=n and y=nn+1 print this one, if x=n+1 etc etc. If it could even be done with an IIF it would be horrendous, and the users would never be able to edit the wording which is one of the requirements. Thanks anyway. Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Date: 14/05/04 14:29 > > Try using field codes with an if and include statements like this. > > { IF { MERGEFIELD fldChoice } ="N" "Statement if True" "Statement if > False"} > > Christian Brock > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 10:43 > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's > probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to > Word. > > I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want > to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The > alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily > alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. > My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc > specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 > columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second > and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a > column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the > table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word > Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a > Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into > my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a > complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only > want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life > of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, > but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would > do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? > Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 14 11:03:16 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:03:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic SOLVED Message-ID: <20040514150314.7D4D624D7EE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Well I think I've cracked it. I've given up fighting it and allowed it to paste back in as a table, then selected the table and converted it to text. That works fine and the mailmerge too. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic Date: 14/05/04 14:43 > > Not on I'm afraid Christian. It's not just a case of popping in one of two > values. It's a case of saying if x=n and y=nn then print this paragraph, if > x=n and y=nn+1 print this one, if x=n+1 etc etc. If it could even be done > with an IIF it would be horrendous, and the users would never be able to > edit the wording which is one of the requirements. > > Thanks anyway. > > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > --------- Original Message -------- > From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > Date: 14/05/04 14:29 > > > > > Try using field codes with an if and include statements like this. > > > > { IF { MERGEFIELD fldChoice } =&quot;N&quot; &quot;Statement if > True&quot; &quot;Statement if > > False&quot;} > > > > Christian Brock > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] > > Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 10:43 > > To: Dba > > Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > > > > I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's > > probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to > > Word. > > > > I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I > want > > to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The > > alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can > easily > > alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge > fields. > > My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc > > specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 > > columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The > second > > and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate > a > > column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the > > table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word > > Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a > > Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell > into > > my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is > a > > complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > > single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I > only > > want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the > life > > of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, > > but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that > would > > do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? > > Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word > Basic, > > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > > > -- > > Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri May 14 10:26:51 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:26:51 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function Message-ID: <19613595.1084548411077.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> To all, I?m a bit new to ASP/HTML and currently working with dropdown boxes, however I?m a bit confused on how to pass the selected text to a function. My code snippet for the dropdown box and function are below: response.write " <% Do Until rs.EOF=True%> <% rs.MoveNext loop %> It does what you ask of it. A couple things to note. in the function, I am getting the .text property, instead of .value. In HTML, an option within a select object (ie, a line in a combo or listbox) can have a value different then what is displayed in the box itself. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function To all, I'm a bit new to ASP/HTML and currently working with dropdown boxes, however I'm a bit confused on how to pass the selected text to a function. My code snippet for the dropdown box and function are below: response.write "" response.write "Choose...." While Not rsData.EOF response.write "" & rsData.Fields("OfficeName") & "" rsData.MoveNext Wend <% ' Function just to display name of the office selected. Function OfficeSelected(strSelectedOffice) response.write strSelectedOffice End Function %> The problem occurs when I select an item from the dropdown box, I get the following error: this.selectedindex.text Is Null or not an object Can anyone point me in the right direction on what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance for any help on this. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 14 11:31:03 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:31:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831C@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Greg, You say " No fee book number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's blank...but the field is NOT required...yet) but some of the other fields are filled. Just a blank [Fee Book #] field. " This looks like a direct contradiction to me??? No fee book number filed in blank ,but you have some blank fee book number fields? Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? > > Hi everyone! > > I've got a puzzler here that makes no sense to me. Access 97. SP "I've > Lost Count"... > > This is a large database with many related tables. There is one main > table (Fee Book) with the Primary Key is [Fee Book #]. It is manually > entered, but is unique by definition. In one of the related tables (Fee > Book Ledger), this field is used for the related records in both tables. > The Fee Book table is the main table while the Fee Book Ledger table holds > related records. Referential Intregity is Enforced. Cascade Update > Related Records is applied, but Cascade Delete Related Records is NOT. > The Join Type is #2, "Include ALL records from 'Fee Book' and only those > records from 'Fee Book Ledger' where the joined fields are equal. > > Obviously, in the Fee Book table, where [Fee Book #], the primary key, is > required, it cannot be blank. > > Why am I ending up with orphans in the Fee Book Ledger table? No fee book > number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's blank...but the field is NOT > required...yet) but some of the other fields are filled. Just a blank > [Fee Book #] field. And it has NO related record in the primary table > since that table cannot have blank fields. > > And, to test it further, I went into the Fee Book Ledger table, entered a > record, but purposly left the [Fee Book #] field blank, and it ACCEPTED > it. > > Now I want to go home. > > I can make the [Fee Book #] field in the Fee Book Ledger table required, > since it currently is not, but that may have some unintended consequences > down the road that I'm not aware of at this moment. > > I'm going to test that in a few moments, but I wanted to see if anyone in > this group had seen this type of oddball behavior before. > > TIA > Greg Smith > GregSmith at Starband.net > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri May 14 11:43:04 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:43:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Message-ID: <770-2200455141643455@christopherhawkins.com> With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I decided tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So far, I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. My Challenge: Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go out, and I want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print Preview each one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that will kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print their invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the client's record. Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the report? Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The part I cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own path in there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with the predefined formats Access ships with. Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? -Christopher- From GregSmith at starband.net Fri May 14 11:58:29 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:58:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831C@xlivmbx12.aig.com> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831C@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <1862.216.43.21.235.1084553909.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Lambert: Well, I guess that wasn't very clear. In the Fee Book Ledger table (secondary), the [Fee Book #] field, by table definition, is not required, even though it is the linked field to the Fee Book table (primary) by the [Fee Book #] field. However, referential integrity between the Fee Book table and the Fee Book Ledger table using this [Fee Book #] field "should" always force an entry in this field in the Fee Book Ledger table, or at least cause an Access error to appear. But I can enter data into the Fee Book Ledger table, and leave the [Fee Book #] field blank and Access accepts it into the table. My understanding (correct or incorrect) is that if Referential Integrity is enforced, then data in the secondary table cannot be entered if there is no related record in the primary table. Which is NOT what is happening here. There has to be a reason this is happening...I hope. Let me know if this needs further explanation ... Greg > Greg, > > You say " No fee book number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's > blank...but the field is NOT required...yet) but some of the other > fields are filled. Just a blank [Fee Book #] field. " > > This looks like a direct contradiction to me??? No fee book number filed > in blank ,but you have some blank fee book number fields? > > Lambert > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] >> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:05 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? >> >> Hi everyone! >> >> I've got a puzzler here that makes no sense to me. Access 97. SP >> "I've Lost Count"... >> >> This is a large database with many related tables. There is one main >> table (Fee Book) with the Primary Key is [Fee Book #]. It is manually >> entered, but is unique by definition. In one of the related tables >> (Fee Book Ledger), this field is used for the related records in both >> tables. The Fee Book table is the main table while the Fee Book >> Ledger table holds related records. Referential Intregity is etc. From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri May 14 12:43:17 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? In-Reply-To: <770-2200455141643455@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000001c439da$f0b5b330$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of other PDF choices out there. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I decided tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So far, I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. My Challenge: Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go out, and I want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print Preview each one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that will kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print their invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the client's record. Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the report? Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The part I cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own path in there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with the predefined formats Access ships with. Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 14 13:00:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:00:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831E@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here is the reason for what you have observed... "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, you can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the records are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is assigned to a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order that is assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID field." So nulls are "ok". This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access will automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll never get any orphans that way. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:58 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? > > Lambert: > > Well, I guess that wasn't very clear. In the Fee Book Ledger table > (secondary), the [Fee Book #] field, by table definition, is not required, > even though it is the linked field to the Fee Book table (primary) by the > [Fee Book #] field. However, referential integrity between the Fee Book > table and the Fee Book Ledger table using this [Fee Book #] field "should" > always force an entry in this field in the Fee Book Ledger table, or at > least cause an Access error to appear. > > But I can enter data into the Fee Book Ledger table, and leave the [Fee > Book #] field blank and Access accepts it into the table. > > My understanding (correct or incorrect) is that if Referential Integrity > is enforced, then data in the secondary table cannot be entered if there > is no related record in the primary table. Which is NOT what is happening > here. > > There has to be a reason this is happening...I hope. > > Let me know if this needs further explanation ... > > Greg > > > > > Greg, > > > > You say " No fee book number (in the Fee Book Ledger table...it's > > blank...but the field is NOT required...yet) but some of the other > > fields are filled. Just a blank [Fee Book #] field. " > > > > This looks like a direct contradiction to me??? No fee book number filed > > in blank ,but you have some blank fee book number fields? > > > > Lambert > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Greg Smith [SMTP:GregSmith at starband.net] > >> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:05 PM > >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >> Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? > >> > >> Hi everyone! > >> > >> I've got a puzzler here that makes no sense to me. Access 97. SP > >> "I've Lost Count"... > >> > >> This is a large database with many related tables. There is one main > >> table (Fee Book) with the Primary Key is [Fee Book #]. It is manually > >> entered, but is unique by definition. In one of the related tables > >> (Fee Book Ledger), this field is used for the related records in both > >> tables. The Fee Book table is the main table while the Fee Book > >> Ledger table holds related records. Referential Intregity is > > etc. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri May 14 12:55:13 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:55:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Message-ID: <410-220045514175513907@christopherhawkins.com> I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and specify a path. -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: mikedorism at adelphia.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 >We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of >other PDF >choices out there. > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > > >With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I >decided >tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So >far, >I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. > >My Challenge: > >Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go >out, and I >want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print >Preview each >one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that >will >kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print >their >invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the >client's record. > >Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the >report? >Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The >part I >cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own >path in >there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with >the >predefined formats Access ships with. > >Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? > >-Christopher- > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From GregSmith at starband.net Fri May 14 13:34:10 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:34:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- Looks Like a FACT! In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831E@xlivmbx12.aig.com> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD831E@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <2135.216.43.21.235.1084559650.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. Thanks again Lambert. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.net > Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here > is the reason for what you have observed... > > "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table > that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, you > can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the records > are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is assigned to > a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order that is > assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID field." > > So nulls are "ok". > > This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry > in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee > Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access will > automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll never get > any orphans that way. > > Lambert > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri May 14 13:45:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:45:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! In-Reply-To: <2135.216.43.21.235.1084559650.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <20040514184504.BMYH1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sounds like a missing foreign key in a query to me. Susan H. Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 14 14:11:57 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:11:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web Message-ID: I have been working with Access for a while now, and I have been doing a little web stuff on the side, and now I would like to consider moving some of my stuff to the web. Does anyone have any advice on where to go to get started on this? I've gotten pretty decent with HTML--I still need to a reference sometimes, but I generally know what I am doing--and I got into this using a book called, "Visual Quickstart Guide" and then found some handy websites. I also viewed the source code on some sites, when I saw something nice, and followed througth it to learn what they were doing. Any books, sites, etc. I am currently trying to expand my web skills, by learning more XML, CGI, Pearl, and some other acronyms. But I think I could definitely impress my boss and users, if I can move some of my current and pending programs onto the Internet or Intranet. Thanks for any help that you can give me! Have a great weekend!!! John W Clark From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 14 14:43:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:43:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEC0@main2.marlow.com> ASP ASP ASP. Microsoft Scripting Editor 10.0 has Intellisense for both ASP objects, HTML tags, and custom ActiveX .dll's. Wonderful approach. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web I have been working with Access for a while now, and I have been doing a little web stuff on the side, and now I would like to consider moving some of my stuff to the web. Does anyone have any advice on where to go to get started on this? I've gotten pretty decent with HTML--I still need to a reference sometimes, but I generally know what I am doing--and I got into this using a book called, "Visual Quickstart Guide" and then found some handy websites. I also viewed the source code on some sites, when I saw something nice, and followed througth it to learn what they were doing. Any books, sites, etc. I am currently trying to expand my web skills, by learning more XML, CGI, Pearl, and some other acronyms. But I think I could definitely impress my boss and users, if I can move some of my current and pending programs onto the Internet or Intranet. Thanks for any help that you can give me! Have a great weekend!!! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 14 14:55:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:55:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? References: <410-220045514175513907@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <40A52427.201@shaw.ca> Ahh, but the method does depend on the driver used and the OS If you want to do it yourself see methods below, however for $50 you can get PDF And E-Mail Class Library for Microsoft Access http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/attac-cg/acgsoft.htm The Library supports many different PDF drivers so you dont have to write and test all the drivers and OS registry keys. Adobe Acrobat PDF drivers from Adobe Systems Supports Acrobat 3, 4, 5 & 6 Win2PDF and Win2PDF Pro from Dane Prairie Systems pdfFactory and pdfFactory Pro from Fine Print Software PDF995 and 995 Tools from Software995 PDF4U from PDF Bean, Inc. Amyuni PDF Creator Amyuni Technologies, Inc. To do it yourself For example Assuming you have Acrobat 5 Write installed Here is method of setting default printer via code also this handles pdf files on Win95 and WinNT systems with win.ini files Reports: Save a report's output as a PDF file* http://www.mvps.org/access/reports/rpt0011.htm Here is another method of changing default printer via code http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn/msaccess/msaccess.html Here's the detail for coding the intitiation of the report: with Adobe PDF Writer Version 5 The registry keys may change for 6.0 1. First thing you need to do is read/understand this article and copy the code into your db as a module. This gives you the functions to poke & peek the registry. 2. Once you have done step 1, you are in a position to create the required registry key and set it with the filename you want to save your pdf as. Put this code in a sub or function some where and pass it your filename. Const conRoot = "HKEY_CURRENT_USER" Const conPath = "Software\Adobe\Acrobat PDFWriter" Const conKey = "PDFFileName" CreateNewKey conPath & "\" & conKey, HKEY_CURRENT_USER SetKeyValue conPath, conKey, "c:\myfolder\myfilename.pdf" , REG_SZ 3. Now when you run your report, it will print to the PDF Writer printer driver and will save the results to the file name you have set above. 4 . not sure of this After the PDF Writer creates the file, it deletes the registry key for you. Generally most PDF drivers have some method of setting file name with the registry. Christopher Hawkins wrote: >I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking >for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and >specify a path. > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: mikedorism at adelphia.net >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 > > > >>We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of >>other PDF >>choices out there. >> >>Doris Manning >>Database Administrator >>Hargrove Inc. >>www.hargroveinc.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>Christopher >>Hawkins >>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? >> >> >>With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I >>decided >>tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So >>far, >>I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. >> >>My Challenge: >> >>Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go >>out, and I >>want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print >>Preview each >>one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that >>will >>kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print >>their >>invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the >>client's record. >> >>Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the >>report? >>Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The >>part I >>cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own >>path in >>there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with >>the >>predefined formats Access ships with. >> >>Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? >> >>-Christopher- >> >> >> >> > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 14 15:05:10 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:05:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic References: <20040514134304.1AC5A262429@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <40A52676.4080007@shaw.ca> If you are looking for Word VBA examples hunt around here http://word.mvps.org/Tutorials/index.htm and here is a list of sites http://www.mvps.org/links.html#Word Cindy Meister's is good for mail merge problems http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister/ Andy Lacey wrote: >I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and it's >probably of interest to others who have Access systems that interface to >Word. > >I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce quotations. What I want >to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to two criteria. The >alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user can easily >alter and can format them. These paras also contain one or two merge fields. >My solution, which I though reasonably elegant, was to set up a new doc >specifically for these alternative paragraphs with a table containing 3 >columns and several rows. The first column is purely descriptive. The second >and third columns hold versions of the text. So what I can do is calculate a >column and a row index from my data and pick the appropriate cell in the >table. So far so pretty good. But then we encounter the horrors of Word >Basic. What I've managed to achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a >Selection object at the cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into >my main doc? If I use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a >complete cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a >single-cell table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I only >want to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't for the life >of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text property, >but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I don't know what that would >do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? >Where am I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, >it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > >-- >Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > >________________________________________________ >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 14 16:36:53 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:36:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Help getting my Access onto the web References: Message-ID: <40A53BF5.6020902@shaw.ca> I learned to fiddle around with Access and ASP by getting a free web hosting account on http://www.brinkster.com Brinkster now has some per diem broadband data throttling on their free accounts. Then installing and uploading the ASP Access wizards from http://www.genericdb.com If you want to get a free account to test ASP.Net and Access or SQL Server http://europe.webmatrixhosting.net/Default.aspx This is a Russian hosted site. I am not sure how closely they are affiliated with Microsoft and how long they will stay in free mode but they have been up for a year. You will need WEBmatrix and ASP.net framework installed on your machine. Here is a message forum using Access and ASP http://www5.brinkster.com/mconnelly/MessageForum/forums.asp John Clark wrote: >I have been working with Access for a while now, and I have been doing a >little web stuff on the side, and now I would like to consider moving >some of my stuff to the web. Does anyone have any advice on where to go >to get started on this? I've gotten pretty decent with HTML--I still >need to a reference sometimes, but I generally know what I am doing--and >I got into this using a book called, "Visual Quickstart Guide" and then >found some handy websites. I also viewed the source code on some sites, >when I saw something nice, and followed througth it to learn what they >were doing. Any books, sites, etc. > >I am currently trying to expand my web skills, by learning more XML, >CGI, Pearl, and some other acronyms. But I think I could definitely >impress my boss and users, if I can move some of my current and pending >programs onto the Internet or Intranet. > >Thanks for any help that you can give me! > >Have a great weekend!!! > >John W Clark > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Fri May 14 19:55:35 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:25:35 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function Message-ID: Just as an aside... This is why ASP.Net is much easier to port from Access development to web development. The reason that ASP.Net automatically maintains state and you can program using very similar techniques to VBA in access. The 'flow' issue that exists in most web technologies is pretty much negated. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 2:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function Paul, this is a GCE. Gross Conceptual Error. . A combobox is something that your end user sees, on your website. The ASP code you have below 'creates' that combo box, and sends it to the user. Everything you put in ASP runs on the server, before the user gets the information. (Technically speaking you can 'push' completed page information out to the user, as more ASP code is running, but the end result is that the user doesn't actually get anything you put into ASP). So, how do you script for what you are doing? You have to use Client Side scripting, either VBScript, or JScript (or anything else that floats your boat). If you are not actually trying to do anything on the user's browser, with the selected value, but instead, are just trying to retrieve it when a user submits the selection, then you would use request.querystring or request.form on the page that receives the submitted data. This issue is probably one of the most common stumbling blocks between switching from VB/Access development, to asp/web development. In Access/VB, there is a continuous 'flow' between the FE and BE. In asp/web development, you are dealing with a disconnected Front End. Almost like taking a snapshot of an Access form, then sending it to your client to fill out. They fill it out, and send it back. In the meantime, you just get to twiddle your thumbs. This has both advantages and disadvantages. One advantage is it immensely increases the number of 'concurrent' users in a system, because you are truly doing a 'hit and run' on the database. It also makes on the fly development a lot easier, because you can change anything you want, to a live system, and when you make a change, the next person to get their 'copy' just gets the new version. The biggest disadvantage is there is no easy way to tell what a user is actually doing, until they 'trigger' something that posts information back to you. To answer your actual question, however, I think you would need this: <% dim cnn dim rs dim strSQL set cnn=server.createobject("ADODB.Connection") set rs=server.createobject("ADODB.Recordset") cnn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" cnn.Open "D:\edlevin.mdb" strSQL="SELECT Name FROM Stores ORDER BY Name" rs.Open strSQL, cnn, 1,1 If rs.EOF=False then rs.movefirst %> It does what you ask of it. A couple things to note. in the function, I am getting the .text property, instead of .value. In HTML, an option within a select object (ie, a line in a combo or listbox) can have a value different then what is displayed in the box itself. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function To all, I'm a bit new to ASP/HTML and currently working with dropdown boxes, however I'm a bit confused on how to pass the selected text to a function. My code snippet for the dropdown box and function are below: response.write "" response.write "Choose...." While Not rsData.EOF response.write "" & rsData.Fields("OfficeName") & "" rsData.MoveNext Wend <% ' Function just to display name of the office selected. Function OfficeSelected(strSelectedOffice) response.write strSelectedOffice End Function %> The problem occurs when I select an item from the dropdown box, I get the following error: this.selectedindex.text Is Null or not an object Can anyone point me in the right direction on what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance for any help on this. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 14 23:43:50 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:43:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 00:00:48 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:00:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 15 00:17:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:17:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From NewEgg's site - All orders shipped within CA,TN and NJ will be charged sales tax. I get the feeling they have a physical location there. I know they recently opened a warehouse in NJ so that they could get things to the east coast faster. Anyway, I am in CT so no tax (yet). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 15 00:21:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This brings up another question, do you place both mirror drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and the like)?. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 00:39:41 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:39:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. J -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K This brings up another question, do you place both mirror drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and the like)?. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 01:09:17 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:09:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. J -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K This brings up another question, do you place both mirror drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and the like)?. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K John, If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with the first drive still connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Folks, About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed this week. In both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of all the programs and individualized settings for each program - the registry etc. What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for anyone who may have experience in this. 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work - I am not a (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my installed software and development stuff never again die because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. Any comments or suggestions appreciated. John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 15 05:33:58 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:33:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <40A52676.4080007@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001801c43a68$21a88ac0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Thanks Marty -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > MartyConnelly > Sent: 14 May 2004 21:05 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > If you are looking for Word VBA examples hunt around here > > http://word.mvps.org/Tutorials/index.htm > > and here is a list of sites > http://www.mvps.org/links.html#Word > > Cindy Meister's is good for mail merge problems > http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister/ > > Andy Lacey wrote: > > >I justify posing this here on the tenuous grounds that it is VBA and > >it's probably of interest to others who have Access systems that > >interface to Word. > > > >I have a mailmerge system running nicely to produce > quotations. What I > >want to do now is vary one of the paragraphs according to > two criteria. > >The alternative paras still need to be held in Word so that the user > >can easily alter and can format them. These paras also > contain one or > >two merge fields. My solution, which I though reasonably > elegant, was > >to set up a new doc specifically for these alternative > paragraphs with > >a table containing 3 columns and several rows. The first column is > >purely descriptive. The second and third columns hold > versions of the > >text. So what I can do is calculate a column and a row index from my > >data and pick the appropriate cell in the table. So far so > pretty good. > >But then we encounter the horrors of Word Basic. What I've > managed to > >achieve is opening the doc, and pointing a Selection object at the > >cell. But how to get the contents of that cell into my main > doc? If I > >use the Copy method what gets copied to the clipboard is a complete > >cell not just its contents, and pasting it back brings in a > single-cell > >table complete with border and formatted accordingly. But I > only want > >to copy the cell contents. I can do it manually but can't > for the life > >of me see how to do it in code. The selection object has a Text > >property, but you can't Copy that, and even if you could I > don't know > >what that would do with the embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan > >for example?) help? Where am I going wrong. I always have > this kind of > >trouble with Word Basic, it's a nightmare unless you've got > an example > >to work from. > > > >-- > >Andy Lacey > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________ > >Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 15 05:35:02 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:35:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c43a68$478e62a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > controller flakes. > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > insure that your pants stay up. > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > John, > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > old 40g to get > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > this week. In > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > - the registry etc. > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > anyone who may have experience in this. > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > - I am not a > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed software and development stuff never again die > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > specifically with this controller. I assume the > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > John W. Colby > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 15 05:37:26 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:37:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? In-Reply-To: <410-220045514175513907@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <001a01c43a68$9d8d4ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I'm a bit rusty here but I think Acrobat (v5 last time I used it) allowed you to setup in Distiller a port which was a folder. When you printed an Access report to the Distiller printer it created PDF named after the caption of the report (I think) in that folder. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: 14 May 2004 18:55 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > > > I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just > looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to > file, and specify a path. > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: mikedorism at adelphia.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:17 -0400 > > >We use PDF995 on a server to accomplish this but there are lots of > >other PDF > >choices out there. > > > >Doris Manning > >Database Administrator > >Hargrove Inc. > >www.hargroveinc.com > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >Christopher > >Hawkins > >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:43 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? > > > > > >With the recent thread about manipulatinig printers through code, I > >decided > >tolook into both the Printer API and the newere Printers object. So > >far, > >I've not figured out how to do what I'm trying to do. > > > >My Challenge: > > > >Let's say all my invoices for the month of March are ready to go > >out, and I > >want to drop a copy in each client's folder. Rather than Print > >Preview each > >one in order to save it as a pdf, I'd like to click one button that > >will > >kick off a routine looping through all my client records and print > >their > >invoices out to a pdf file, saving the file at the path stored in the > >client's record. > > > >Now, looping through each client and opening or previewing the > >report? > >Easy. I can even set the default printer in code, no sweat. The > >part I > >cannot figure out is how to print to a pdf file, and stick my own > >path in > >there. I looked ad DoCmd.OutputTo at first, but it only works with > >the > >predefined formats Access ships with. > > > >Surely I'm not the first guy to need to do this? Any ideas? > > > >-Christopher- > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From djkr at msn.com Sat May 15 09:15:48 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:15:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K - OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c43a87$1eaf56e0$3500a8c0@dabsight> Reply posted on dba-Tech. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. < --- snip --- > From djkr at msn.com Sat May 15 09:52:41 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:52:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c43a8c$45fd09e0$3500a8c0@dabsight> Reply posted to dba-Tech. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: 15 May 2004 05:44 > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I < --- snip --- > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat May 15 16:21:39 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:21:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions Message-ID: <012001c43ac2$9cf1b850$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Is there a way to control what those buttons display? Change Yes to Si or Oui, for example. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Sat May 15 16:58:14 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:58:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions In-Reply-To: <012001c43ac2$9cf1b850$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000001c43ac7$b984af40$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Not without rolling out your own dialog form. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:22 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions Dear List: I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and 'No' buttons. Is there a way to control what those buttons display? Change Yes to Si or Oui, for example. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat May 15 19:56:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 20:56:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K References: <001901c43a68$478e62a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <000401c43ae0$aaf0f560$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > > NT 4 Workstation. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > > controller flakes. > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > > insure that your pants stay up. > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > J > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > John, > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > Folks, > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > > old 40g to get > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > this week. In > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > > - the registry etc. > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > > anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > - I am not a > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > > installed software and development stuff never again die > > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > > specifically with this controller. I assume the > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 02:20:55 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 02:20:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <001901c43a68$478e62a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > controller flakes. > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > insure that your pants stay up. > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > John, > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > old 40g to get > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > this week. In > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > - the registry etc. > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > anyone who may have experience in this. > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > - I am not a > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed software and development stuff never again die > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > specifically with this controller. I assume the > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > John W. Colby > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 02:25:04 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 02:25:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry Andy! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to > copy files from server to get the RAID 1 configurability in > NT 4 Workstation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that you > can put both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a channel per connector, which is almost as > good as having two controllers for duplexing in case a > controller flakes. > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be sure > about the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think > that you gain a channel by using both connectors, and thats > just like adding a pair of suspenders along with a belt to > insure that your pants stay up. > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just > absolutely can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of > motherboards are shipping with RAID controllers on board. I > read somewhere, maybe on winternals.com that you can use the > software RAID functionality of Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > J > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there > any advantage to giving each drive it's own IDE cable > (simultaneous operations and the like)?. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > John, > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all that you have to do is load the drivers with > the first drive still connected to the original controller, > and then reboot. At the reboot, power down the system move > the controller cable to the RAID controller and plug the new > drive in also. Just make sure you know which connector is > which. When the system reboots, the RAID utility runs and > allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make sure that the > RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > You might want to check out some other vendor than Newegg, > because they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they > did in Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced > me to switch back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat > $6.95 for up to 150 lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Folks, > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g hard > drive bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I > had laying around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just > replace it with a 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K > doesn't natively support large hard disks until you get SP3 > or better installed and manually edit the registry. Thus the > old 40g to get > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > this week. In > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > - the registry etc. > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity > was roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta > cost of Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. > I am now researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using > a pair of Maxtor 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the > system partition (drive c:) and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to face) > is a Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up > before the weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down > the $ for a Maxtor 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My > intention at this point is to order a matching drive and the > raid controller from www.Egghead.com and when I get it, set > up the mirror. I have a couple of questions though for > anyone who may have experience in this. > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, Office and other programs. Once I get the > controller, can I just unplug this disk from my motherboard, > plug it in to the raid controller, plug the matching drive > in, and tell something to "set up the mirror"? I.e. the new > drive gets the exact same partitions (there are three of > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > - I am not a > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed software and development stuff never again die > because a disk dies. I have found and read a bunch of > articles on raid in general but can't find any detailed > information on the PROCESS of setting the thing up, and > specifically with this controller. I assume the > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > John W. Colby > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 16 07:41:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:41:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <000401c43ae0$aaf0f560$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <002f01c43b43$2bdba8c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. :-) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 16 May 2004 01:57 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) > > ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never > appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lacey" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to > > > have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from > > > server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that > you can put > > > both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a > > > channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two > > > controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. > > > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be > sure about > > > the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that > you gain a > > > channel by using both connectors, and thats just like > adding a pair > > > of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. > > > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely > > > can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are > > > shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read > somewhere, maybe on > > > winternals.com that you can use the software RAID > functionality of > > > Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on > > > the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to > > > giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and > > > the like)?. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all > > > that you have to do is load the drivers with the first > drive still > > > connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the > > > reboot, power down the system move the controller cable > to the RAID > > > controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure > you know > > > which connector is which. When the system reboots, the > RAID utility > > > runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make > sure that > > > the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than > Newegg, because > > > they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in > > > Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch > > > back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 > > > lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g > hard drive > > > bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying > > > around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace > it with a > > > 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support > > > large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed > and manually > > > edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get > > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > > this week. In > > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > > > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > > > - the registry etc. > > > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was > > > roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of > > > Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now > > > researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a > pair of Maxtor > > > 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition > (drive c:) > > > and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to > face) is a > > > Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the > > > weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for > a Maxtor > > > 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this > point is to > > > order a matching drive and the raid controller from > www.Egghead.com > > > and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of > questions > > > though for anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, > > > Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just > > > unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid > > > controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell > something to "set > > > up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same > partitions > > > (there are three of > > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > > - I am not a > > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed > > > software and development stuff never again die because a > disk dies. > > > I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but > > > can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the > > > thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the > > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 08:12:17 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 08:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <002f01c43b43$2bdba8c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: must be hard being you -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. :-) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 16 May 2004 01:57 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) > > ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never > appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lacey" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > appears to > > > have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from > > > server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that > you can put > > > both drives on one cable but I also think that the > controller has a > > > channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two > > > controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. > > > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be > sure about > > > the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that > you gain a > > > channel by using both connectors, and thats just like > adding a pair > > > of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your pants stay up. > > > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely > > > can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are > > > shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read > somewhere, maybe on > > > winternals.com that you can use the software RAID > functionality of > > > Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > drives on > > > the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any advantage to > > > giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous operations and > > > the like)?. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > controller, all > > > that you have to do is load the drivers with the first > drive still > > > connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the > > > reboot, power down the system move the controller cable > to the RAID > > > controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure > you know > > > which connector is which. When the system reboots, the > RAID utility > > > runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make > sure that > > > the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than > Newegg, because > > > they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in > > > Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me to switch > > > back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for up to 150 > > > lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. > > > Colby > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g > hard drive > > > bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying > > > around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace > it with a > > > 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support > > > large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed > and manually > > > edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get > > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > > this week. In > > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this because of > > > all the programs and individualized settings for each program > > > - the registry etc. > > > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was > > > roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the delta cost of > > > Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now > > > researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a > pair of Maxtor > > > 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition > (drive c:) > > > and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to > face) is a > > > Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the > > > weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for > a Maxtor > > > 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this > point is to > > > order a matching drive and the raid controller from > www.Egghead.com > > > and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of > questions > > > though for anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > Win2K Pro, > > > Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, can I just > > > unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid > > > controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell > something to "set > > > up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same > partitions > > > (there are three of > > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > > - I am not a > > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > installed > > > software and development stuff never again die because a > disk dies. > > > I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but > > > can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of setting the > > > thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the > > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 16 10:19:13 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:19:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! In-Reply-To: <2135.216.43.21.235.1084559650.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: Another way to handle this is set the default value to 0 and have a "Zeroth record" that matches. Then set the "allow nulls" to false. The database engine will absolutely prevent the nulls from getting in there and will in fact error when it happens, allowing you to see when and why it is happening. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Greg Smith Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. Thanks again Lambert. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.net > Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here > is the reason for what you have observed... > > "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table > that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, you > can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the records > are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is assigned to > a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order that is > assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID field." > > So nulls are "ok". > > This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry > in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee > Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access will > automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll never get > any orphans that way. > > Lambert > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun May 16 10:25:29 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:25:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <20040514134304.1AC5A262429@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <40A74FA9.15253.340690@localhost> On 14 May 2004 at 14:43, Andy Lacey wrote: > can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in > code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy > that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do with the > embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) help? Where am > I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. I don't use mail merge very often. I don't like it. So I may not be the best person to help :( I can duplicate what you are describing, but I can't select just the text. It's quite bizare. Tick, tock. Tick, Tock.... Well now after messing around some more I have a solution. What you need to do is reduce the range's size by 1 chartacter, which takes the cell marker out of the rang that you will be copying. Here's some code to show what I mean(and as always watch for wrap): Sub test() Dim doc As Document Dim cl As Cell Dim rngCL As Range Dim pasteDoc As Document 'Get the document with the table Set doc = ActiveDocument 'Get the Cell Set cl = doc.Tables(1).Cell(1, 2) 'Set the range to the cell Set rngCL = cl.Range 'Move the range's end point back one rngCL.End = rngCL.End - 1 'Now copy rngCL.Copy 'Get the doc where you will paste into Set pasteDoc = Documents.Add 'Paste pasteDoc.Range.Paste 'Close and release objects Set pasteDoc = Nothing Set cl = Nothing Set rngCL = Nothing Set doc = Nothing End Sub -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 16 11:27:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:27:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky et all (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has caused no problems yet. /gustav > Hi Rocky, > I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently > working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the > progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system > restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. > Regards, > Matt Pickering > LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD > http://www.lupo.net.nz > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: Gordon Bennett > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Gustav et al: > Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an > A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually > change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the > picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 > and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the > registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the > progress bar despite the reg key setting. > Any ideas on what's going on here? > TIA and regards, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > Gustav: > That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which > will definitely improve the quality of my products. > Best regards, > Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > Hi Rocky (and Seth) > Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by > Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. > Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line > breaks): > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 > Public Const REG_SZ = 1 > Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ > ByVal hKey As Long) As Long > Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ > ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long > Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > ByVal lpValueName As String, _ > ByVal Reserved As Long, _ > ByVal dwType As Long, _ > ByRef lpData As Any, _ > ByVal cbData As Long) As Long > Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ > hKey As Long, _ > PathVar As String, _ > ValueVar As String, _ > DataVar As String) > Dim hCurKey As Long > Dim Result As Long > Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > Len(DataVar)) > Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) > End Sub > Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) > Dim PathVar As String > Dim ValueVar As String > Dim DataVar As String > PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics > Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" > ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" > DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") > Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) > End Sub > > This worked for me out of the box. > But (Seth or anyone?) - I would like to be able to retrieve the setting > of the key too. > Something like: > Public Declare Function RegGetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > Alias "RegGetValueExA" > ... etc. > How can I do that? > The purpose would be to get the key when launching the app, set it to > "No" while running, and then resetting it to "Yes" when closing the app > if that was the initial setting. > Also, could you please explain why this line from the code above > contains "ByVal": > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > Len(DataVar)) > I know what ByVal means but have never seen it in a call of a function. > /gustav >> Thanks for that. The code solution didn't work - just make the >> progress bar flicker a bit shorter. But changing the key in the >> registry did work. Problem is, of course, it has to be changed on the >> target machine. Does anyone know how to get to a registry key through >> code? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >> Yeatman, Tony >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:03 AM >> To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash >> >> An article at Dev Ashish's site explains how to suppress the >> Loading Image Dialog. >> >> http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0038.htm >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Tony. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 16 11:39:25 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:39:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <40A74FA9.15253.340690@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c43b64$599a9d90$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Bryan, you are a Word genius. Will try this tomorrow but don't doubt it'll work if you say it does. My ConvertToText after pasting does work, but tgis would be far more elegant. Thanks. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Bryan Carbonnell > Sent: 16 May 2004 16:25 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic > > > On 14 May 2004 at 14:43, Andy Lacey wrote: > > > can do it manually but can't for the life of me see how to do it in > > code. The selection object has a Text property, but you can't Copy > > that, and even if you could I don't know what that would do > with the > > embedded merge field. Can someone (Bryan for example?) > help? Where am > > I going wrong. I always have this kind of trouble with Word Basic, > > it's a nightmare unless you've got an example to work from. > > I don't use mail merge very often. I don't like it. So I may not be > the best person to help :( > > I can duplicate what you are describing, but I can't select just the > text. It's quite bizare. > > Tick, tock. Tick, Tock.... > > Well now after messing around some more I have a solution. > > What you need to do is reduce the range's size by 1 chartacter, which > takes the cell marker out of the rang that you will be copying. > Here's some code to show what I mean(and as always watch for wrap): > > Sub test() > Dim doc As Document > Dim cl As Cell > Dim rngCL As Range > Dim pasteDoc As Document > > 'Get the document with the table > Set doc = ActiveDocument > 'Get the Cell > Set cl = doc.Tables(1).Cell(1, 2) > 'Set the range to the cell > Set rngCL = cl.Range > 'Move the range's end point back one > rngCL.End = rngCL.End - 1 > 'Now copy > rngCL.Copy > 'Get the doc where you will paste into > Set pasteDoc = Documents.Add > 'Paste > pasteDoc.Range.Paste > > 'Close and release objects > Set pasteDoc = Nothing > Set cl = Nothing > Set rngCL = Nothing > Set doc = Nothing > End Sub > > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca > I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun May 16 11:39:25 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:39:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003201c43b64$59bdb5f0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it (muses 'what's that from?') > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > Sent: 16 May 2004 14:12 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > must be hard being you > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. > > :-) > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > William Hindman > > Sent: 16 May 2004 01:57 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > ...you get a lot of coal in your Christmas stocking don't you? :) > > > > ...you're of course right ...a moderator's job is never > > appreciated until you join an unmoderated one ...thanks :) > > > > William Hindman > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > Dos Passos > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Lacey" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:35 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > No chance of this going to the Tech list I don't suppose. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JMoss > > > > Sent: 15 May 2004 07:09 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > I was looking around in diskmanagement on 2000 pro and it > > appears to > > > > have RAID 1 configurability. In NT4 you had to copy files from > > > > server to get the RAID 1 configurability in NT 4 Workstation. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > With the Promise RAID, you get two cables. I think that > > you can put > > > > both drives on one cable but I also think that the > > controller has a > > > > channel per connector, which is almost as good as having two > > > > controllers for duplexing in case a controller flakes. > > > > > > > > I can't lay my hands on a manual right now so I cant be > > sure about > > > > the two drives on a cable, but like I said I think that > > you gain a > > > > channel by using both connectors, and thats just like > > adding a pair > > > > of suspenders along with a belt to insure that your > pants stay up. > > > > > > > > This is definitely the way to go for anyone that just absolutely > > > > can't afford to lose their data, and a lot of motherboards are > > > > shipping with RAID controllers on board. I read > > somewhere, maybe on > > > > winternals.com that you can use the software RAID > > functionality of > > > > Win 2000 Server on 2000 Pro. > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of John W. > > > > Colby > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:22 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > This brings up another question, do you place both mirror > > drives on > > > > the same IDE cable? If you can choose, is there any > advantage to > > > > giving each drive it's own IDE cable (simultaneous > operations and > > > > the like)?. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JMoss > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:01 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > If the Highpoint is anything like the Promise RAID > > controller, all > > > > that you have to do is load the drivers with the first > > drive still > > > > connected to the original controller, and then reboot. At the > > > > reboot, power down the system move the controller cable > > to the RAID > > > > controller and plug the new drive in also. Just make sure > > you know > > > > which connector is which. When the system reboots, the > > RAID utility > > > > runs and allows you to build the mirror. One thing, make > > sure that > > > > the RAID is set for Security rather than Performance because > > > > performance doesn't mirror but stripes. See this link for an > > > > explanation of RAID 0 striping, and RAID 1 mirroring. > > > > > > > > You might want to check out some other vendor than > > Newegg, because > > > > they recently starting collecting sales tax, or they did in > > > > Tennessee. Sales tax and their shipping rates forced me > to switch > > > > back to www.tcwo.com who's shipping in a flat $6.95 for > up to 150 > > > > lbs, plus they don't collect Tennessee tax. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of John W. > > > > Colby > > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:44 PM > > > > To: Tech - Database Advisors Inc.; AccessD > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > About 6 months ago my less than one year old Maxtor 120g > > hard drive > > > > bit the dust. I replaced it with an old 40g drive I had laying > > > > around and a 160g drive. I had intended to just replace > > it with a > > > > 160g but quickly discovered that Win2K doesn't natively support > > > > large hard disks until you get SP3 or better installed > > and manually > > > > edit the registry. Thus the old 40g to get > > > > Windows up, then the 160g set up. That 40g drive failed > > > > this week. In > > > > both cases my C: drive (partition) was lost. Backups simply > > > > aren't the end all and be all in a case like this > because of all > > > > the programs and individualized settings for each program > > > > - the registry etc. > > > > > > > > What I have learned from this is that the lost productivity was > > > > roughly 2-3 days per incident, waaaay more than the > delta cost of > > > > Raid 1. I have decided not to go through that again. I am now > > > > researching a Raid 1 solution (simple mirror) using a > > pair of Maxtor > > > > 120g drives. This gives me 40g for the system partition > > (drive c:) > > > > and 80g for my dev stuff, web dev etc. > > > > > > > > My current choice for controller (I do have $ limits to > > face) is a > > > > Highpoint RocketRaid 133. In order to get back up before the > > > > weekend I went down to Staples and plunked down the $ for > > a Maxtor > > > > 6y120P0 120g 8mb buffer hard disk. My intention at this > > point is to > > > > order a matching drive and the raid controller from > > www.Egghead.com > > > > and when I get it, set up the mirror. I have a couple of > > questions > > > > though for anyone who may have experience in this. > > > > > > > > 1) I have already partitioned the new drive and installed > > Win2K Pro, > > > > Office and other programs. Once I get the controller, > can I just > > > > unplug this disk from my motherboard, plug it in to the raid > > > > controller, plug the matching drive in, and tell > > something to "set > > > > up the mirror"? I.e. the new drive gets the exact same > > partitions > > > > (there are three of > > > > them) created, files written, and I'm up and running mirrored? > > > > > > > > 2) If not am I facing a reinstall of everything again? > > > > > > > > 3) Is there anything I need to know? I just want it to work > > > > - I am not a > > > > (trained) system admin, I am a developer working in a SOHO. > > > > > > > > The idea is to get my dev system set up so that all of my > > installed > > > > software and development stuff never again die because a > > disk dies. > > > > I have found and read a bunch of articles on raid in general but > > > > can't find any detailed information on the PROCESS of > setting the > > > > thing up, and specifically with this controller. I assume the > > > > documentation with the controller will tell me most of what I > > > > need to know, but of course.... what can go wrong will. > > > > > > > > Any comments or suggestions appreciated. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 12:00:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:00:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Hi Rocky et all > > (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in > front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when > the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of > "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). > > Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: > A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. > > It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the > one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the > equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. > > Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It > shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it > when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where > pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has > caused no problems yet. > > /gustav > > > > Hi Rocky, > > > I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently > > working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the > > progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system > > restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. > > > Regards, > > > Matt Pickering > > LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD > > http://www.lupo.net.nz > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Cc: Gordon Bennett > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > > > > Gustav et al: > > > Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an > > A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually > > change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the > > picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 > > and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the > > registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the > > progress bar despite the reg key setting. > > > Any ideas on what's going on here? > > > TIA and regards, > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Gustav: > > > That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which > > will definitely improve the quality of my products. > > > Best regards, > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Hi Rocky (and Seth) > > > Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by > > Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. > > > Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line > > breaks): > > > > > > Option Compare Database > > Option Explicit > > > Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 > > > Public Const REG_SZ = 1 > > > Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ > > ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpValueName As String, _ > > ByVal Reserved As Long, _ > > ByVal dwType As Long, _ > > ByRef lpData As Any, _ > > ByVal cbData As Long) As Long > > > Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ > > hKey As Long, _ > > PathVar As String, _ > > ValueVar As String, _ > > DataVar As String) > > > Dim hCurKey As Long > > Dim Result As Long > > > Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) > > > End Sub > > > Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) > > > Dim PathVar As String > > Dim ValueVar As String > > Dim DataVar As String > > > PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics > > Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" > > ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" > > DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") > > > Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) > > > End Sub > > > > > > This worked for me out of the box. > > > But (Seth or anyone?) - I would like to be able to retrieve the setting > > of the key too. > > Something like: > > > Public Declare Function RegGetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegGetValueExA" > > ... etc. > > > How can I do that? > > The purpose would be to get the key when launching the app, set it to > > "No" while running, and then resetting it to "Yes" when closing the app > > if that was the initial setting. > > > Also, could you please explain why this line from the code above > > contains "ByVal": > > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > > I know what ByVal means but have never seen it in a call of a function. > > > /gustav > > > >> Thanks for that. The code solution didn't work - just make the > >> progress bar flicker a bit shorter. But changing the key in the > >> registry did work. Problem is, of course, it has to be changed on the > >> target machine. Does anyone know how to get to a registry key through > >> code? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >> Yeatman, Tony > >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:03 AM > >> To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' > >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > >> > >> An article at Dev Ashish's site explains how to suppress the > >> Loading Image Dialog. > >> > >> http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0038.htm > >> > >> Hope this helps. > >> > >> Tony. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 16 12:22:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:22:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> <00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> Hi William You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. /gustav > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun May 16 13:24:00 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:24:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Word Basic In-Reply-To: <003101c43b64$599a9d90$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> References: <40A74FA9.15253.340690@localhost> Message-ID: <40A77980.31879.D77493@localhost> On 16 May 2004 at 17:39, Andy Lacey wrote: > Bryan, you are a Word genius. Will try this tomorrow but don't doubt > it'll work if you say it does. My ConvertToText after pasting does > work, but tgis would be far more elegant. Thanks. Genius, No. Stubborn S.O.B. You bet :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Why is it that inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the heck happened? From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 13:44:33 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:44:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk><00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will call the registry from if there is another way. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Hi William > > You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. > > The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it > every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well > documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame > your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. > > /gustav > > > > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing > > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to > > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so > > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an > > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 14:53:17 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:53:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040516195317.BQXT1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Why? How is Access more unstable in this regard than any other application? Susan H. ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will call the registry from if there is another way. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 15:42:45 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:42:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question Message-ID: <20040516204245.HZDG16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate those records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with the same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... Susan H. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sun May 16 15:51:16 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:51:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: <20040516204245.HZDG16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000b01c43b87$89dd1e10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate those > records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with the same > name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 15:57:55 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:57:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <000b01c43b87$89dd1e10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 17:02:15 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:02:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux References: <20040516195317.BQXT1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000601c43b91$732bbf00$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...ime, it corrupts far too easily Susan ...a corrupt mdb is one thing ...a corrupt registry is quite another ...when necessary I'll set registry entries manually or from the apis but only when a full bu is available ...flipping registry settings on/off from Access is pushing the envelope a bit more than I care to do ...gustav sees it differently ...caveat emptor :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Why? How is Access more unstable in this regard than any other application? > > Susan H. > > ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will > call the registry from if there is another way. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun May 16 17:09:51 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:09:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... or : record one record two record three something about record one something about record two something about record three something else about record one something else record two something else record three something more record one something more record one something more record one record four record five record six something about record four something about record five something about record six something more record one Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be welcome. bob From DaveSharpe2 at cox.net Sun May 16 17:10:56 2004 From: DaveSharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:10:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? References: <001a01c43a68$9d8d4ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <026f01c43b92$a99d5160$dd2f0a44@bcsrkeext6137> Christopher I use pdf995 from www.pdf995.com. I've never tried what You suggest. pdf995 uses an ini file that addresses where and what to stecify the output as. In http://www.pdf995.com/faq_dev.html They state the question "How can I modify the functionality of Pdf995 programmatically?" With the answer "PdfEdit modifies c:\pdf995\res\pdf995.ini to control the functionality of Pdf995. Programmers may invoke many of the features of PdfEdit by direct modification of pdf995.ini. " I think it can be done with pdf995 Dave -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: 14 May 2004 18:55 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and specify a path. -C- From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 17:27:52 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:27:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Hi, long read no write:-) Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 my global unique human identifier would be something like this; 104501533-NL-123456789 So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate values:-) Nighty night folks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 17:45:50 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:45:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mmmzzz the practical side about implementing this way of identifying is ofcourse a bit more difficult for there are so many ways to manipulate identification but I'd go for DNA manipulation before birth so every DNA string in the human body would carry this GUHI... :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question Hi, long read no write:-) Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 my global unique human identifier would be something like this; 104501533-NL-123456789 So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate values:-) Nighty night folks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:45:40 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 18:03:42 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:03:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Duh... last but not least, assuming our DNA is globally unique why manipulate? (must be bedtime for sure) Instead we'd best use the DNA barcode as a GUHI and add a Name-ID from our HNS kept up-to-date on th internet (our virtual sub-world). Would be interesting...once every single living object can be uniquely identified we'd never have to carry around our passport or social securitynumber etc.. it would all exist in the new world we created as an extra datalayer on top of the physical datalayer of which we exist:-) Anyway, Martin is right also since a UI key must always be present and a name combination alone will never be unique unless added with a unique element. BN, Eric Starkenburg -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question Hi, long read no write:-) Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 my global unique human identifier would be something like this; 104501533-NL-123456789 So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate values:-) Nighty night folks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 1:03:42 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From djkr at msn.com Sun May 16 18:03:27 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:03:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516204245.HZDG16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001e01c43b99$ffb60310$3500a8c0@dabsight> By having a table of people, of course. There is a one-to-many relationship between people and names. (Or more accurately a many-to-many relationship - but let's not get into that!) Each person with the name "John Smith" would be represented by a record (in the people table) containing a pointer to that name in the name table. If you had a table of eye colors, how would you deal with real people with the same eye color? It's the same question as yours, really. Eye color doesn't identify a person uniquely: nor does a name (well, some might). Sorry to sound simplistic, but that's it, really. No cliff to step off. There remains of course the issue of how to identify people uniquely - but that, as they say, is another story ... John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 16 May 2004 21:43 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and > you relate those records to other tables -- how to you deal > with real people with the same name? I feel like I'm stepping > off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:09:11 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:09:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: Message-ID: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "StaRKeY" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Duh... last but not least, assuming our DNA is globally unique why > manipulate? (must be bedtime for sure) Instead we'd best use the DNA barcode > as a GUHI and add a Name-ID from our HNS kept up-to-date on th internet (our > virtual sub-world). Would be interesting...once every single living object > can be uniquely identified we'd never have to carry around our passport or > social securitynumber etc.. it would all exist in the new world we created > as an extra datalayer on top of the physical datalayer of which we exist:-) > > Anyway, Martin is right also since a UI key must always be present and a > name combination alone will never be unique unless added with a unique > element. > > BN, > Eric Starkenburg > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY > Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Hi, long read no write:-) > > Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a > repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name > property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started > using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the > streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without > thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is > taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if > 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check > by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source > has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or > misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database > efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all > known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters > and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique > identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a > repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more > efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) > > Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has > for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a > HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination > instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so > we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... > > More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) > added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination > (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) > Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 > my global unique human identifier would be something like this; > 104501533-NL-123456789 > > So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate > values:-) > > > Nighty night folks > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? > Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to > distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to > get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a > duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous > chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as > well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) > > Susan H. > > Why would you have a table with only names? > > In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone > here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 1:03:42 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:25:10 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:25:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <001e01c43b99$ffb60310$3500a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <20040516232509.LBIA25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, I did think of that -- but then how do you determine which Mary Smith did what in your database? Through relationships of course, but one false move and zip...... you're telling Mary Smith at 101 First Street that she is indeed pregnant... No, you're not pregnant, Mary Smith... Well, yes you are -- when actually Mary Smith at 101 First Street IS pregnant, it's Mary Smith at 201 Main Street that is NOT pregnant -- know what I mean? The potential for mistakes seems horrendously large. One wrong relationship (pun intended) and let the data fall where it may! :) Of course, that would be true in any database -- but we tend to think of relating the data and transactions to the person or business, not the address or the hire date, or birth date, or whatever other value we end up having to use -- because Mary Smith isn't a duplicate, just her name is. :) Let's do it this way -- you have a table with just one Mary Smith, but you have two addresses linked to Mary Smith. Does Mary Smith have two addresses, or are there two Mary Smith's? You can't possibly know and the difference might be important. ON the other hand, you can easily see if NameID: 101 Mary Smith has two addresses or if NameID: 101 Mary Smith has one and NameID: 306 Mary Smith has another. What if it's both? What if one Mary Smith has two addresses and one Mary Smith has none or one? Or, what if there are 3 Mary Smiths... Could I BE more obnoxious? :) In the end, it seems like there has to be another distinguishing value, as Martin suggests or we have to accept some redundancy. OK, let chaos ensue! ;) Susan H. By having a table of people, of course. There is a one-to-many relationship between people and names. (Or more accurately a many-to-many relationship - but let's not get into that!) Each person with the name "John Smith" would be represented by a record (in the people table) containing a pointer to that name in the name table. If you had a table of eye colors, how would you deal with real people with the same eye color? It's the same question as yours, really. Eye color doesn't identify a person uniquely: nor does a name (well, some might). Sorry to sound simplistic, but that's it, really. No cliff to step off. There remains of course the issue of how to identify people uniquely - but that, as they say, is another story ... John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: 16 May 2004 21:43 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate > those records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with > the same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:25:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:25:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040516232540.LBLF25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Egads... Did I start this? ;) Susan H. Mmmzzz the practical side about implementing this way of identifying is ofcourse a bit more difficult for there are so many ways to manipulate identification but I'd go for DNA manipulation before birth so every DNA string in the human body would carry this GUHI... :-) From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:26:26 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:26:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040516232625.LBSC25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Have you tried columns? Susan H. Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:33:53 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:33:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Egads... I'm guessing normalization as we know it is dead! ;) OK, can we attach ourselves to a snowflake or something????? I know -- fractoids! :) Is it mathematically possible??????? ;) Hi, I'm fractoid 453298109B. :) Susan H. ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:35:46 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:35:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: <20040516232540.LBLF25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <007001c43b9e$836ff2c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...no doubt deliberately :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Egads... Did I start this? ;) > > Susan H. > > Mmmzzz the practical side about implementing this way of identifying is > ofcourse a bit more difficult for there are so many ways to manipulate > identification but I'd go for DNA manipulation before birth so every DNA > string in the human body would carry this GUHI... :-) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:39:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:39:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <007001c43b9e$836ff2c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040516233948.LFNJ25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Would I do that? It IS a serious question after all. :) Susan H. ...no doubt deliberately :) From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun May 16 18:47:11 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:47:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And of course as soon as I sent the message, I remembered "Columns" in the page setup menu. And that is the solution. Thanks anyway. Now I just need to only have the labels appear once for each horizontal section instead of for each record. TIA bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Report Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... or : record one record two record three something about record one something about record two something about record three something else about record one something else record two something else record three something more record one something more record one something more record one record four record five record six something about record four something about record five something about record six something more record one Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be welcome. bob -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun May 16 18:48:16 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:48:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: <20040516232625.LBSC25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Thanks Susan. Columns is the solution. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report Have you tried columns? Susan H. Hello to the group, I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail sections across a page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 18:50:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <01e601c43ba0$a29079c0$6601a8c0@rock> I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. Any suggestions? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:54:19 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:54:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <01e601c43ba0$a29079c0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040516235418.LJQW25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 18:55:03 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:55:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question References: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <007c01c43ba1$34cefb90$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...no ...ANPK based normalization within a single db is safe because we can control the uniqueness of the AN sequence within any reasonable db size considerations ...DNA codes otoh are not controllable and therefore you cannot assume they are unique within your db structure ...much like SSNs ...most people think they're unique until they see a dupe. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:33 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Egads... I'm guessing normalization as we know it is dead! ;) OK, can we > attach ourselves to a snowflake or something????? I know -- fractoids! :) Is > it mathematically possible??????? ;) Hi, I'm fractoid 453298109B. :) > > Susan H. > > ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because > you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin > doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 16 18:52:42 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:52:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <000b01c43b87$89dd1e10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: To add to this point..... A table with names will not guarantee that a name is correct or unique; therefore a table with only that information can not be normalized. The only way that I have found it is possible, is if the full name with DOB as a minimum requirement and maybe SIN as added insurance. Even though a single SIN number should guarantee uniqueness, you are of course dealing with human data entry issues. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] normalization question Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and you relate those > records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people with the same > name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 19:02:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:02:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516205754.PNYR11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01f101c43ba2$4bf49f40$6601a8c0@rock> There's no "what if", Susan. You simply don't have such a table. I know several Bill Smiths and no less than five John Reids -- all living in Toronto, all in the computer biz, and none related to any other. Weird but true. Of course a duplicate is a repeated value, but there must be some way to distinguish them. In Canada we have SIN #s instead of SSNs, and according to CDN law you cannot use these except for situations related to Revenue Canada (our equivalent of the IRS). Admittedly, this complicates the issues you are raising. But there is always some way to individuate the John Reids. One lives at 124 Main Street, another at 111 Indian Road, etc., or maybe works for company XYZ (a bad choice, since two John Reids could work there). I have stumbled upon a similar situation regarding City names. Legend has it that the reason The Simpsons chose Springfield as the city in which the Simpsons live is because it is the most frequent City Name in USA. Last time I looked there were about 30 of them. So when I present a CityID combo|listbox, I always append the state, so the user knows which Springfield she is choosing. The same logic applies to the five occurrences of John Reid. There's no other way to go. They need an ANPK and your selection method needs one or more fields that distinguish them -- phone number might work, just as an example. On the chance that John Reid lives with John Reid II, then their names do not coincide. Should it happen that two unrelated John Reids share the same address and phone number, well, there goes my proposed solution: you would need to find another distinguishing column. My $.02, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) Susan H. Why would you have a table with only names? In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Sun May 16 19:11:51 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:11:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516232509.LBIA25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002301c43ba3$8dde4a40$3500a8c0@dabsight> Yes, of course people are in a many-to-many relationship with addresses, too, for various reasons. I would be very wary of telling just some Mary Smith that whe was pregnant. However, a particular Mary Smith has presented herself recently for a pregnancy test, presumably, and has given her name & address / whatever to enable me to communicate the test results to her alone with certainty thereby identifying herself uniquely in this context. Context is important. In real life there is unlikely to be a problem here, so it is up to us to design data structures and systems which reflect real life when relevant, so that they are no more fragile, and have the opportunity to be much more robust. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 17 May 2004 00:25 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Well, I did think of that -- but then how do you determine > which Mary Smith did what in your database? Through > relationships of course, but one false move and zip...... > you're telling Mary Smith at 101 First Street that she is > indeed pregnant... No, you're not pregnant, Mary Smith... > Well, yes you are > -- when actually Mary Smith at 101 First Street IS pregnant, > it's Mary Smith at 201 Main Street that is NOT pregnant -- > know what I mean? The potential for mistakes seems > horrendously large. One wrong relationship (pun intended) and > let the data fall where it may! :) Of course, that would be > true in any database -- but we tend to think of relating the > data and transactions to the person or business, not the > address or the hire date, or birth date, or whatever other > value we end up having to use -- because Mary Smith isn't a > duplicate, just her name is. :) > > Let's do it this way -- you have a table with just one Mary > Smith, but you have two addresses linked to Mary Smith. Does > Mary Smith have two addresses, or are there two Mary Smith's? > You can't possibly know and the difference might be > important. ON the other hand, you can easily see if NameID: > 101 Mary Smith has two addresses or if NameID: 101 Mary Smith > has one and > NameID: 306 Mary Smith has another. What if it's both? > What if one Mary Smith has two addresses and one Mary Smith > has none or one? Or, what if there are 3 Mary Smiths... Could > I BE more obnoxious? :) > > In the end, it seems like there has to be another > distinguishing value, as Martin suggests or we have to accept > some redundancy. > > OK, let chaos ensue! ;) > > Susan H. > > By having a table of people, of course. There is a > one-to-many relationship between people and names. (Or more > accurately a many-to-many relationship - but let's not get > into that!) Each person with the name "John Smith" would be > represented by a record (in the people table) containing a > pointer to that name in the name table. > > If you had a table of eye colors, how would you deal with > real people with the same eye color? It's the same question > as yours, really. Eye color doesn't identify a person > uniquely: nor does a name (well, some might). > > Sorry to sound simplistic, but that's it, really. No cliff > to step off. There remains of course the issue of how to > identify people uniquely - but that, as they say, is another story ... > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > > Harkins > > Sent: 16 May 2004 21:43 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and > you relate > > those records to other tables -- how to you deal with real > people with > > the same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 19:13:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:13:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform References: <01e601c43ba0$a29079c0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001001c43ba3$d37c1910$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...a form dropped onto another form would be a subform ...are you establishing the master child relations and following the correct addressing procedures for subforms? William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform > I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As > a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and > it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it > ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but > it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew > the answer I've forgotten. > > Any suggestions? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 19:19:04 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:19:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <007c01c43ba1$34cefb90$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040517001903.SHRI11640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Actually, I was just kidding, but I did run into a problem not too long ago with a corrupted db that started churning out used AN. :( Susan H. ...no ...ANPK based normalization within a single db is safe because we can control the uniqueness of the AN sequence within any reasonable db size considerations ...DNA codes otoh are not controllable and therefore you cannot assume they are unique within your db structure ...much like SSNs ...most people think they're unique until they see a dupe. From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 19:29:02 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <20040516235418.LJQW25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Sun May 16 19:34:40 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:34:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401c43ba6$bd6ffee0$3500a8c0@dabsight> A table OF names (or "with only names") is just that. It's not a table of people. You can enforce uniqueness if you wish: it's just a table of names. I have a client which is a translation agency. Their database includes a table of languages (unique language names only - except that I insist on having my own PK). Intermediate tables identify which translators translate from and to each language. Everything is normalized. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Lawrence (AccessD) > Sent: 17 May 2004 00:53 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > To add to this point..... > > A table with names will not guarantee that a name is correct > or unique; therefore a table with only that information can > not be normalized. The only way that I have found it is > possible, is if the full name with DOB as a minimum > requirement and maybe SIN as added insurance. Even though a > single SIN number should guarantee uniqueness, you are of > course dealing with human data entry issues. > > My two cents worth. > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Why would you have a table with only names? > > In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am > sure someone here will come up with an interesting approach > to this one. > > Martin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:42 PM > Subject: [AccessD] normalization question > > > > If a table contains only names -- say first and last -- and > you relate > those > > records to other tables -- how to you deal with real people > with the > > same name? I feel like I'm stepping off a cliff here... > > > > Susan H. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From KP at sdsonline.net Sun May 16 19:26:06 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:26:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? References: <001a01c43a68$9d8d4ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> <026f01c43b92$a99d5160$dd2f0a44@bcsrkeext6137> Message-ID: <00b701c43ba5$988bfc10$6501a8c0@user> Christopher - I have missed most of this thread, but pdf995 definitely allows you to save to a specific file name and folder - and to do that you just change the menu settings - it has a feature called 'Autoname'. You may need to buy the pdf995 'edit' version - I am not sure. But ask them - their support is good. I have several clients now using pdf995 - and I set up the autoname so that I can save pdf files to a specific path and name and attach the pdf's to emails without the users having to see the whole 'save pdf as...' dialog. Works well. HTH Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Sharpe To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? Christopher I use pdf995 from www.pdf995.com. I've never tried what You suggest. pdf995 uses an ini file that addresses where and what to stecify the output as. In http://www.pdf995.com/faq_dev.html They state the question "How can I modify the functionality of Pdf995 programmatically?" With the answer "PdfEdit modifies c:\pdf995\res\pdf995.ini to control the functionality of Pdf995. Programmers may invoke many of the features of PdfEdit by direct modification of pdf995.ini. " I think it can be done with pdf995 Dave -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: 14 May 2004 18:55 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Printing to file as PDF w/specific path? I'm not really married to any particular PDF driver, I'm just looking for code that will let me use that driver to print to file, and specify a path. -C- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun May 16 19:39:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:39:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040517003940.UPBP17779.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I don't work much with tab controls, but I'm guessing it's just a syntax error with your references. Want to list them here? If we can see them, someone's sure to find the problem Susan H. Yes. Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? From artful at rogers.com Sun May 16 20:55:17 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:55:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <001001c43ba3$d37c1910$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <020601c43bb2$0080b930$6601a8c0@rock> Yes of course. It's been a while William but not THAT long! A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 8:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform ...a form dropped onto another form would be a subform ...are you establishing the master child relations and following the correct addressing procedures for subforms? William Hindman From papparuff at comcast.net Sun May 16 21:04:18 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform In-Reply-To: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000c01c43bb3$4c1d9b50$6601a8c0@papparuff> Arthur, Here's code that I use for setting the RecordSource for a Subform based on what has been selected in a listbox. Private Sub lstAttributes_Click() Dim strSQL As String Dim varItm As Variant Dim strValues As String ' Loop through the items selected in the listbox ' and concatenate the strValues string with ' each AttributeID selected in the listbox, followed ' by a comma (the delimiter) For Each varItm In lstAttributes.ItemsSelected strValues = strValues & _ lstAttributes.Column(0, varItm) & "," Next varItm ' Insure the user selects at least one value If strValues = "" Then MsgBox "You must select at least one item from the listbox" lstAttributes.SetFocus Exit Sub End If ' Remove the last comma from the txtSelectedItems textbox strValues = Left(strValues, Len(strValues) - 1) ' Build the SQL string using the IN operator and the values in the ' txtSelectedItems textbox strSQL = "SELECT AttributeID, AttributeName, " & _ "AttributeInstructions " & _ "FROM tbl_SpecialAttributes " & _ "WHERE AttributeID In (" & strValues & ");" ' Set the subform's RecordSource with the SQL string frm_SpecialAttributes_Sub.Form.RecordSource = strSQL End Sub John V. Ruff - The Eternal Optimist :-) Always Looking For Contract Opportunities Home: 253.588.2139 Cell: 253.307/2947 9306 Farwest Dr SW Lakewood, WA 98498 "Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed." Proverbs 16:3 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From papparuff at comcast.net Sun May 16 21:06:43 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:06:43 -0700 Subject: Recall: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Message-ID: The sender would like to recall the message, "[AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform". From papparuff at comcast.net Sun May 16 21:08:01 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:08:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform-Revisited In-Reply-To: <01f401c43ba5$f4131370$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, I'm reposting the code I sent in my previoius message on this subject because the REM statements might have been a bit confusing. Here's code that I use for setting the RecordSource for a Subform based on what has been selected in a listbox. Private Sub lstAttributes_Click() Dim strSQL As String Dim varItm As Variant Dim strValues As String ' Loop through the items selected in the listbox ' and concatenate the strValues string with ' each AttributeID selected in the listbox, followed ' by a comma (the delimiter) For Each varItm In lstAttributes.ItemsSelected strValues = strValues & _ lstAttributes.Column(0, varItm) & "," Next varItm ' Insure the user selects at least one value If strValues = "" Then MsgBox "You must select at least one item from the listbox" lstAttributes.SetFocus Exit Sub End If ' Remove the last comma from the strValues string strValues = Left(strValues, Len(strValues) - 1) ' Build the SQL string using the IN operator and the values in the ' strValues string strSQL = "SELECT AttributeID, AttributeName, " & _ "AttributeInstructions " & _ "FROM tbl_SpecialAttributes " & _ "WHERE AttributeID In (" & strValues & ");" ' Set the subform's RecordSource with the SQL string frm_SpecialAttributes_Sub.Form.RecordSource = strSQL End Sub John V. Ruff - The Eternal Optimist :-) Always Looking For Contract Opportunities Home: 253.588.2139 Cell: 253.307/2947 9306 Farwest Dr SW Lakewood, WA 98498 "Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed." Proverbs 16:3 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Question about Listbox Finders on a subform Tabbed form? Do you mean a tab control? Susan H. I have a form with a listbox "finder" on it, generated by the wizard. As a standalone form it works perfectly: I select a row in the listbox and it navigates to said row. When I drop this form on a tabbed form, it ceases to work. I can't figure out why. It may be something obvious, but it's been a while since I've done Access development and if I ever knew the answer I've forgotten. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun May 16 23:25:08 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:25:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <004301c43b9a$cc9166e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I was told so William but had my doubts... so we actually do need to mess with DNA or any other object property to make ourselves unique... ohwell, it was nice fantasizing(?) anyway:-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 01:09 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] normalization question ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "StaRKeY" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > Duh... last but not least, assuming our DNA is globally unique why > manipulate? (must be bedtime for sure) Instead we'd best use the DNA barcode > as a GUHI and add a Name-ID from our HNS kept up-to-date on th internet (our > virtual sub-world). Would be interesting...once every single living object > can be uniquely identified we'd never have to carry around our passport or > social securitynumber etc.. it would all exist in the new world we created > as an extra datalayer on top of the physical datalayer of which we exist:-) > > Anyway, Martin is right also since a UI key must always be present and a > name combination alone will never be unique unless added with a unique > element. > > BN, > Eric Starkenburg > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of StaRKeY > Sent: maandag 17 mei 2004 00:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > Hi, long read no write:-) > > Interesting Susan/Martin, ofcourse the combination first/last -name is a > repeating group since more than one human object can carry the same name > property. This 'problem' is probably the reason why social security started > using unique identifiers/numbers:-) How do we do this in real life on the > streets? No number is used luckily but we do use unique identifiers without > thinking about this since we're so grown into it. The whole human object is > taken into account when trying to recognise a 'known' identity but what if > 99.9% is recognized and this 0.1% not.... we have doubts and need to check > by either ask this identity direct or find out indirect. Ofcourse the source > has to be 100% sure about the statement given otherwise gossip or > misunderstanding is born:-) Returning to Susan's remark, for database > efficiency reasons we should probably have one name table containing all > known name combinations on earth and an autonumber for relational matters > and one unique idetifying human object table containing a global unique > identifier and the FK reference to a name combination (since this is a > repeating group:-)) This would get rid of duplicate names and thus be more > efficient data management. Makes me think of Assembly versus Visual Basic:-) > > Hihihi getting inspired now... In fact like the use of DNS the internet has > for identifying the unique IP addresses we global inhabitants should have a > HNS (Human Name System) used the other way around (number = name combination > instead of name = ip-address) where name combinations are kept globally so > we would only have to reference this domain system LOL... > > More inspired...by using a unique identifier (read social securitynumber) > added with a unique country identifier added with the known name combination > (at birth registration) we'd have a unique global human identifier:-) > Assuming the ID of name combination Eric Hans Starkenburg would be 123456789 > my global unique human identifier would be something like this; > 104501533-NL-123456789 > > So Susan I agree, one name table should get rid of these ugly duplicate > values:-) > > > Nighty night folks > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: zondag 16 mei 2004 22:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] normalization question > > > You would think so Martin -- and you're most likely right. But, what if????? > Even with an AutoNumber value as the primary key, there's no way to > distinguish one from the other -- you have to depend on the relationships to > get it right. In fact, and this is what I'm really getting to -- isn't a > duplicate name really just a repeated value? I'm bordering on ridiculous > chaos here I know, but well... it's a Sunday and I'm working, so might as > well mess with everyone's heads, right? ;) > > Susan H. > > Why would you have a table with only names? > > In my experience there is usually another qualifier? But I am sure someone > here will come up with an interesting approach to this one. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 0:27:52 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. > Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 > Getest op: 17-5-2004 1:03:42 > avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0420-4, 14-05-2004 Getest op: 17-5-2004 6:25:08 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From artful at rogers.com Mon May 17 00:17:26 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 01:17:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023301c43bce$3e5c3ab0$6601a8c0@rock> As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they do like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) and found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 Arthur Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, bad coding, identity theft, etc.). I don't have a solution. I simply recognize some of the deep problems herein. (Sometimes a single Gustav Brock could work for several companies simultaneously, and have multiple addresses -- at company 123 he lists his address in Denmark; at co. 234 he lists his address in Germany; at co. 345 he lists his address in Rotterdam.) Resolving all these to a single actual Gustav is problematic to say the least. Suppose Gustav also has multiple passports and multiple citizenships. I know several Canadians who have multiple citizenships, and this can decidely work against them. One friend of mine, a Canadian citizen born of French parents but born in Canada, spent a year in France and suddenly found himself drafted into the French army. (Granted this occurred in the 60's and the laws may have changed since, but at that time France took the position that any child born of French parents was a French citizen and therefore entitled to the privilege of being drafted.) And while we're on the subject of names, I am a big fan of Indian and Pakistani music, but owning over 100 CDs in these genres has not helped me deduce the family naming schemes in the slightest. For example, the best tabla player in the world (IMO) is Zakir Hussain. His father is Alla Rakha. His uncles are Ravi Shankar and Ali Ahkbar Khan. Could someone with knowledge of these familial naming schemes please explain same? Does anyone on this list comprehend these naming schemes? I would truly appreciate enlightenment in this area. Vaguely related, my second wife, from Spain, is named Samanth Ruskin Lema. The middle name comes from her father, the last name from her mother. Her mother's name is Flora Azucena Castro Lema, and Flora's father's surname was Castro. She married a man whose surname is Ruskin but nowhere in her name is this indicated. It is only indicated in the names of her children. I would be interested in replies from those non-North-American listers to learn what your naming schemes are. Given a mother whose name is W X, and a father whose name is Y Z, what will be the "family name" of their offspring? In the case of Alla Rakha and Zakir Hussain, there is no relationship whatever. I have no idea how they come up with their progeny's names. But I want to generalize the question and learn about the world's naming schemes. I have probably taken this thread way off-topic and apologize to the moderator(s) for this. But I find this question incredibly interesting, and even if distantly, it bears upon SSH's original question. International replies invited and encouraged. Maybe you should reply to me directly rather than clutter the AccessD thread with this stuff. But I am seriously interested in learning about the world's naming schemes. TIA, Arthur From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 17 03:05:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:05:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040516233351.LDTG25885.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <1788960694.20040517100553@cactus.dk> Hi Susan Fractoid? Your mind is truly weird ... Back to the topic: Here we have had a personal id system since 1968 which main purpose is to uniquely identify each citizen for the authorities and others who need it like insurance companies and banks - they have access to a central database for verification. Actually it is quite clever; you get the number the day you are born and it contains your birth date plus four digits (where odd/even indicates your sex) so you can easily remember it. Further, it is Modulus 11 verified, so typing errors are avoided. Reported errors through the years have been extremely few and it has served its purpose well. /gustav > Egads... I'm guessing normalization as we know it is dead! ;) OK, can we > attach ourselves to a snowflake or something????? I know -- fractoids! :) Is > it mathematically possible??????? ;) Hi, I'm fractoid 453298109B. :) > Susan H. > ...you're assuming that DNA is globally unique ...its not ...just because > you see infinitesimal odds thrown around doesn't mean that your DNA twin > doesn't live just down the road ...only that its very unlikely. From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 17 03:54:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:54:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk><00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <12911870959.20040517105424@cactus.dk> Hi William Hmmm, to me Access - no matter what version - certainly isn't that flaky. Remember, here we are changing a value only - not adding or deleting a key. If the API call is send, Windows handles it; if it fails during a crash, Windows does nothing. /gustav > ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will > call the registry from if there is another way. >> You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. >> >> The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it >> every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well >> documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame >> your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing >> > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to >> > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so >> > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an >> > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon May 17 05:06:13 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:06:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup of an Access database? (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a form.) Thanks in advance Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 17 05:12:19 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:12:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4916546021.20040517121219@cactus.dk> Hi Ryan Create an AutoExec macro and run your function from it. /gustav > Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup > of an Access database? > (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a > form.) From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon May 17 05:16:49 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:16:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: <291640.1084789009206.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> if you create a macro called Autoexec, then for the action select RunCode and then select the module to run. Autoexec should run each time you start up that database and then run the module. Message date : May 17 2004, 11:10 AM >From : rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Startup module Hi All, Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup of an Access database? (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a form.) Thanks in advance Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon May 17 05:25:13 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:25:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: Excellent. Thank you Paul and Gustav Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon May 17 08:54:35 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:54:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) Message-ID: My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was not his prey, and all ended well. But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after processing! After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this guy, and they raz me about it quite often. The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying such high taxes here! >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they do like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) and found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 Arthur Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, bad coding, identity theft, etc.). From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon May 17 09:09:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:09:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (norma lization question) Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8330@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > not his prey, and all ended well. > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > processing! > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > such high taxes here! > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > Reids, > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > do > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > and > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > a > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > Arthur > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > bad > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Mon May 17 09:17:39 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:17:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (norma lization question) Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BD0@mail2.wrsystems.com> As a life NRA member, I fail to see the relevance of this. This topic may be better served elsewhere. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > not his prey, and all ended well. > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > processing! > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > such high taxes here! > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > Reids, > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > do > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > and > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > a > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > Arthur > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > bad > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 09:19:32 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:19:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] normalization question In-Reply-To: <1788960694.20040517100553@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040517141931.ZHTN24544.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hi Susan Fractoid? Your mind is truly weird ... ============You're just figuring that out? :) Back to the topic: Here we have had a personal id system since 1968 which main purpose is to uniquely identify each citizen for the authorities and others who need it like insurance companies and banks - they have access to a central database for verification. Actually it is quite clever; you get the number the day you are born and it contains your birth date plus four digits (where odd/even indicates your sex) so you can easily remember it. Further, it is Modulus 11 verified, so typing errors are avoided. Reported errors through the years have been extremely few and it has served its purpose well. ===========I guess in the end, what I've decided (for myself) is that even though a name may be repeated, as a representation of a unique "person" it is not redundant, therefore, it is OK to keep names in another table with seemingly less related facts, even if they're repeated. It is OK not to normalize names the same way you would city, state, and so on. There aren't two LA, Californias, but there are two (or many more) Mary Smith's. While you could normalize them the same way,I think it's unnecessary, unless of course the application's purpose somehow requires it. Of course that still doesn't solve the problem of knowing whether Mary Smith has two addresses or whether there are two Mary Smith's... But depending on the application, it may not even matter. If it does, you have to allow for it -- as you mention using some clever scheme. Susan H. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 09:21:56 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:21:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8330@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <000601c43c1a$4ed75e50$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > > not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > > processing! > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > > such high taxes here! > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > > Reids, > > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > > do > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > > and > > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > > a > > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > > Arthur > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > > bad > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Mon May 17 09:42:55 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:42:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (norma lization question) Message-ID: John, your story sounds very familiar, and I can assure you, it doesn't just happen among people with common names. Before finding gainful employment, I tried my hand at being an actor in Chicago. At the time, another actor named Steve Pickering also lived and worked in Chicago (and much more successfully than I did!....) Over the course of what I thought of as my career, I heard stories of this other Steve Pickering. One casting agent told me that they quit using him for some reason, then told me, "I hope we got the right one." Yeah, so did I. At one time, this other Steve Pickering and I lived about a mile away from each other, both near Lake Shore Drive. His girlfriend called him on the phone, got my number from 411, and had a conversation with my fianc?e (at the time). I heard it was quite an interesting conversation until both women realized they were talking about two different "Steve Pickering"s. This does point to one solution, though I think it is imperfect (for obvious reasons). The Screen Actor's Guild enforces a key of Actor Name, which is made of First Name, Middle Name, and Last Name. Two of these may be null. Each instance must be unique. If I joined SAG (a man can dream, can't he?), I would not be able to join as "Steve Pickering". I would have to use something else, like "Stephen Pickering" or "Stephen J Pickering" that has not yet been used. Again, while this may work (not always) for SAG, it is imperfect in the real world, when you are trying to convince a casting director that you are not THAT Steve Pickering, and he says that he was hoping that you were. Name is a poor key in and of itself. Something more descriptive is needed to differentiate people. As for the repeating value argument, it is interesting from a theoretical standpoint, but not very practical. For example, are "Smyth" or "Smythe" or "Smithee" misspellings of "Smith", or valid, different values? There probably isn't one pat answer. Who would want to maintain this? What does it get you? Steve -----John Clark's Original Message----- My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was not his prey, and all ended well. But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after processing! After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this guy, and they raz me about it quite often. The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying such high taxes here! >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they do like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) and found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 Arthur Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, bad coding, identity theft, etc.). From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon May 17 10:03:11 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:03:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You have to lay the labels and text boxes on top of one another in a single column. The width is whatever you need it to be in order to fit in your text. In On_Format of the detail section: If me.left < (ColumnWidthInInches * 1440) then 'code to hide all text boxes 'code to show all labels Me.NextRecord = false Else 'code to show all text boxes 'code to hide all labels End if Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report > > > And of course as soon as I sent the message, I remembered "Columns" in the > page setup menu. And that is the solution. Thanks anyway. > Now I just need to only have the labels appear once for each horizontal > section instead of for each record. > > TIA > > bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Report > > > Hello to the group, > > I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail > sections across a > page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... > > or : > > record one record two > record three > something about record one something about record two > something about > record three > something else about record one something else record two > something else > record three > something more record one something more record one > something more record > one > > > record four record five > record six > something about record four something about record five > something about > record six > something more record one > > Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be > welcome. > > bob > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Mon May 17 10:03:55 2004 From: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk (John R. Porter) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:03:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <000601c43c1a$4ed75e50$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <000401c43c20$2d27ce60$94249f82@ds.strath.ac.uk> How can you complain about political comments when you include the following in all your postings: "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > > not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > > processing! > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > > such high taxes here! > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > > Reids, > > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > > do > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > > and > > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > > a > > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > > Arthur > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > > bad > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon May 17 10:15:02 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:15:02 -0400 Subject: ADMIN - READ NOW!!!! RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose Message-ID: ** High Priority ** OK, that's it. This ends NOW!!!!! If you have a problem with a post, let one of the mods know. You can find our addresses at http://www.databaseadvisors.com/lists/moderators.htm We don't bite when you mail us privately, but we just might bite iuf this is done in public. Let me reiterate.... This OFF-TOPIC thread ends here and now. If you have a problem with a post, bring it to the attention of a moderator, IN PRIVATE. Bryan Carbonnell listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Your, now, grumpy listmaster >>> j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk 17-May-04 11:03:55 AM >>> How can you complain about political comments when you include the following in all your postings: "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else who > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > Lambert From chizotz at mchsi.com Mon May 17 10:24:10 2004 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:24:10 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Startup module Message-ID: <051720041524.18197.7e26@mchsi.com> Hi Ryan, One method I have found useful is to set a default startup form and call the code I need to run from the OnOpen (or OnLoad, depending on what I need to do and when) event of that form. The AutoExec macro method also of course works, but this is another option to consider. Ron > > > > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know how to get a module (or any code) to fire at the startup > of an Access database? > (Similar to a startup form I suppose - but without actually involving a > form.) > > Thanks in advance > Ryan > > Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd > June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the > relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is > recommended. > > Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author > immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all > copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended > recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on > this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and > any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they > are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a > result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own > virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered > in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member > practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available > for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's > principal place of business and its registered office. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 17 10:39:00 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:39:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux Message-ID: I see it differently too, William. Our commercial Access applications regularly make use of registry keys, as does every other application running under Windows. Our own keys are established in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and HKEY_CURRENT_USER when the application is installed, updated with the application is run, and removed if someone tampers with the license. How does that make an Access app any flakier than any other Windows apps? Windows applications work through the registry, so they can't really avoid writing to it. In fact, unless you work hard at intentionally screwing up the registry from Access through the API, it just not going to happen. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux ...ime, it corrupts far too easily Susan ...a corrupt mdb is one thing ...a corrupt registry is quite another ...when necessary I'll set registry entries manually or from the apis but only when a full bu is available ...flipping registry settings on/off from Access is pushing the envelope a bit more than I care to do ...gustav sees it differently ...caveat emptor :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Why? How is Access more unstable in this regard than any other application? > > Susan H. > > ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I > will call the registry from if there is another way. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 17 10:40:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:40:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLikea FACT! Message-ID: That's the method I always recommend, although clients sometimes object to it ... That, and an "other" condition in lookups and lists. Oh, well. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLikea FACT! Another way to handle this is set the default value to 0 and have a "Zeroth record" that matches. Then set the "allow nulls" to false. The database engine will absolutely prevent the nulls from getting in there and will in fact error when it happens, allowing you to see when and why it is happening. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Greg Smith Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Referential Integrity -- Fact or Fiction? --- LooksLike a FACT! Lambert: Thanks! I'll bet that's it. So now I know for sure that they CAN get in there and it's not an Access issue. THAT being the case, now I have to figure out how these orphans are getting in there...because it doesn't happen consistantly...just when some certain event occurs (that they've not been able to pin down) that is out of the ordinary. Out of 400,000+ records entered, I have 55 blanks. Statistically not bad, but it sometimes unbalances their books. And THAT is bad...particularly when the County Recorder calls me and asks WHY. Thanks again Lambert. Greg Smith GregSmith at Starband.net > Ah Hah. Now I see what you mean, and looking at the on-line help, here > is the reason for what you have observed... > > "You can't enter a value in the foreign key field of the related table > that doesn't exist in the primary key of the primary table. However, > you can enter a Null value in the foreign key, specifying that the > records are unrelated. For example, you can't have an order that is > assigned to a customer that doesn't exist, but you can have an order > that is assigned to no one by entering a Null value in the CustomerID > field." > > So nulls are "ok". > > This whole thing would be moot however if you always do the data entry > in a form bound to the Fee Book table with a sub-form bound to the Fee > Book Ledger table. With the appropriate Parent / Child links Access > will automatically plug in the Foreign Key value for you and you'll > never get any orphans that way. > > Lambert > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon May 17 11:05:51 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Problems with MSysModules2 Message-ID: <20040517160551.31591.qmail@web20415.mail.yahoo.com> I have a weird situaltion. All of a sudden my users cannot get into a database after one person opens a copy of it. They are getting the following message: The database engine couldn't lock table 'MSysModules2' because it's already in use by another person or process. Now the funny thing is that the database they are opening is a front end mdb that each of them have a copy of. No two people are opening the same database. This is happening over a network. Each user has their own home directory with a copy of this database. The back is SQL Server 2000. Can anyone help!!!! May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon May 17 12:35:46 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:35:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access Message-ID: <000501c43c35$63304ea0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> My friend Nancy Lytle is having trouble posting to AccessD from her work email so I'm posting this on her behalf. ********************* I am working at a small company that sells very high end audio/visual assemblies and installation and integration with home automation systems. We have sales people who get the clients and jobs and then turn them into specific orders which are then fabricated/assembled and then put in a holding area until they are packed on the truck to go to the site (usually a house being constructed). Items occasionally are returned to the warehouse. We do not keep a real inventory, we order and have on hand only the items the clients have ordered. The only things we "stock" are things like wiring and racks since we have very limited warehouse space. We have an Access database where we keep the information on clients, jobs, orders, purchase orders, contracts, quotes, etc are keep. We are thinking about add the use of barcodes to the database to 1) track employee time on jobs, they do fabrication and installation for multiple jobs in a day and 2) track the A/V equipment that is ordered for a client and used in the fabrication of their order, in other words track from PO to receiving to shelving to fabrication to pick/pack list to return to office (if not used). The concerns seem to be billing the clients properly for the time the assemblers/installers work a job, and keeping tighter control on the "inventory" we do have on hand, so we know if a piece if equipment has come in, if so where it is and if the order was not completely filled - how many remain to be received, etc. I wanted to ask about other people's what their experiences with barcoding as part of an Access solution and their opinions on whether barcoding might be of use in this type of situation or if some other solution might be better. Nancy Lytle nlytle at allaroundtech.com ******************** Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 17 14:15:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:15:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access Message-ID: Nancy, My company is heading in the same direction. I'm currently logging time card punches using employee badges (not linked yet to jobs), which is all done via barcode readers. Once the basic's are done and working smoothly(we are almost their) we will be linking to an Oracle backend and developing tracking based on P.O.#'s and Workorder#'s. Haven't run into anything major yet, but your mileage may very. It all depends on planning out the project before jumping in. Most of the code I have done in this application is error trapping employee's double(triple...) swiping their badge. If you have any questions, let me know. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:36 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access My friend Nancy Lytle is having trouble posting to AccessD from her work email so I'm posting this on her behalf. ********************* I am working at a small company that sells very high end audio/visual assemblies and installation and integration with home automation systems. We have sales people who get the clients and jobs and then turn them into specific orders which are then fabricated/assembled and then put in a holding area until they are packed on the truck to go to the site (usually a house being constructed). Items occasionally are returned to the warehouse. We do not keep a real inventory, we order and have on hand only the items the clients have ordered. The only things we "stock" are things like wiring and racks since we have very limited warehouse space. We have an Access database where we keep the information on clients, jobs, orders, purchase orders, contracts, quotes, etc are keep. We are thinking about add the use of barcodes to the database to 1) track employee time on jobs, they do fabrication and installation for multiple jobs in a day and 2) track the A/V equipment that is ordered for a client and used in the fabrication of their order, in other words track from PO to receiving to shelving to fabrication to pick/pack list to return to office (if not used). The concerns seem to be billing the clients properly for the time the assemblers/installers work a job, and keeping tighter control on the "inventory" we do have on hand, so we know if a piece if equipment has come in, if so where it is and if the order was not completely filled - how many remain to be received, etc. I wanted to ask about other people's what their experiences with barcoding as part of an Access solution and their opinions on whether barcoding might be of use in this type of situation or if some other solution might be better. Nancy Lytle nlytle at allaroundtech.com ******************** Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon May 17 15:08:57 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:08:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names, Uniqueness and Normalization In-Reply-To: <200405171700.i4HH0SQ16412@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517145139.017d9e88@pop3.highstream.net> It has been interesting reading about the impossible unique keying of names. And the mistakes other systems make in trying to use something like social security number for a unique key. Unfortunately, our names are not unique, nor will they really ever be. I have 2 sons, twins, that have a fair chance at it. We made up their first names, Calen and Braeg. Tried to give them a Gaelic sounding name. So, in the end, names are not unique. The best design for a Party table would be something like: Party_ID Autonumber Salutation Text(20) FirstName Text(20) MiddleName Text(20) MiddleName2 Text(20) LastName Text(20) NameSuffix Text(20) GoesBy Text(20) GreetingUsed Test(40) You might be able to enforce uniqueness across all but the party_id, but, depending on the number of entries into the database, you might still have problems. And, adding in a birth date would also help but still could be a problem in a database of millions of names. Note: MiddleName2 is there because some people, like my oldest, do have 2 middle names. I would never add phone number or address into the mix because they can change too easily. You might want to store them and keep a history of them so you could identify a person through that history, like the large credit verification companies. One of the companies I work with is a non-profit social service agency that has a lot of people doing community service. They are going to a time clock that do a fingerprint biometric. Now, that is a pretty unique way of identifying a person and the name they carry. ;-) It was also interesting to read another post in the same digest about normalizing names. Going a bit further with that, it really depends on the size of the database. In the class that I teach, I used the example of a company that created phone books. How many tables would it take to completely normalize that data? Well, I gave them a month to think about it and then we went over it. We came up with between 27 and 31 tables. If someone is interested in some of our thoughts about it, I will post them for you to the list. Otherwise, I will not waste the space. Robert From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Mon May 17 15:24:30 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:24:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names, Uniqueness and Normalization Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C1801061441D3@EXCHMAIL> Not all people (my dad for instance) have fingerprints :) D Robert L. Stewart wrote: One of the companies I work with is a non-profit social service agency that has a lot of people doing community service. They are going to a time clock that do a fingerprint biometric. Now, that is a pretty unique way of identifying a person and the name they carry. ;-) From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon May 17 15:48:14 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:48:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access References: <000501c43c35$63304ea0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <40A9250E.2090800@shaw.ca> Here is a starting point on barcodes,EAN/UPC's, 2-D barcodes and barcode readers including PDA's I think a simple 3of9 code would be easier than getting into UPC's http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/barcode1.cgi Mike & Doris Manning wrote: >My friend Nancy Lytle is having trouble posting to AccessD from her work >email so I'm posting this on her behalf. > >********************* > >I am working at a small company that sells very high end audio/visual >assemblies and installation and integration with home automation systems. >We have sales people who get the clients and jobs and then turn them into >specific orders which are then fabricated/assembled and then put in a >holding area until they are packed on the truck to go to the site (usually a >house being constructed). Items occasionally are returned to the warehouse. >We do not keep a real inventory, we order and have on hand only the items >the clients have ordered. The only things we "stock" are things like wiring >and racks since we have very limited warehouse space. > >We have an Access database where we keep the information on clients, jobs, >orders, purchase orders, contracts, quotes, etc are keep. We are thinking >about add the use of barcodes to the database to 1) track employee time on >jobs, they do fabrication and installation for multiple jobs in a day and 2) >track the A/V equipment that is ordered for a client and used in the >fabrication of their order, in other words track from PO to receiving to >shelving to fabrication to pick/pack list to return to office (if not used). > >The concerns seem to be billing the clients properly for the time the >assemblers/installers work a job, and keeping tighter control on the >"inventory" we do have on hand, so we know if a piece if equipment has come >in, if so where it is and if the order was not completely filled - how many >remain to be received, etc. > >I wanted to ask about other people's what their experiences with barcoding >as part of an Access solution and their opinions on whether barcoding might >be of use in this type of situation or if some other solution might be >better. > >Nancy Lytle >nlytle at allaroundtech.com > >******************** > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 15:49:31 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:49:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) References: <000401c43c20$2d27ce60$94249f82@ds.strath.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...signature line John ...not a post :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Porter" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > How can you complain about political comments when you include the following in all your postings: > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ? > > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > > John R. Porter > I.T. Services > University of Strathclyde > Faculty of Education > 76 Southbrae Drive > Glasgow > G13 1PP > e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk > Tel. 0141 950 3289 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > > ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > (normalization question) > > > > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and everyone else > who > > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing heat - > > preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > > (normalization question) > > > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's pistol > > > permit department, to track pistol permits. I was shocked to discover > > > that they tracked these things by name only. I thought I found a major > > > problem, when they gave me their original tables and I discovered > > > hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me that SSN was not required data. > > > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a programmer and as a > > > private citizen. I told them about a personal situation of mine > > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W Clark. The name itself > > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My friends > > > used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of another local guy > > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years ago. I was in a > > > bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was introduced to a guy who was a > > > friend of a friend. I don't drink much these days, but thank god that > > > when I did, I was a friendly drunk, because after speaking to my new > > > friend, I discovered that he thought I was someone else--someone who > > > used to beat him up quite a bit in high school, shared the same name as > > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical characteristics. This > > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, according > > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was looking at a > > > little payback. He told me, that he thought I was someone else, and that > > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently paroled > > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of me, when I left > > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and discovered that I was > > > not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse happened. > > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors arrived > > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, showed up > > > at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, they did want John > > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this turned > > > out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at work--had I been there, > > > they would have sorted it out, at the county jail--probably after > > > processing! > > > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that I would be doing > > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told them all > > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if the name came > > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty familiar with this > > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check to Albany, and > > > it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How the hell do they know > > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If there are two in > > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more people > > > with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own thing. I > > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all have their own > > > numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why were paying > > > such high taxes here! > > > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I know 5 John > > > Reids, > > > and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them Irish, they > > > do > > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does anyone else LOVE > > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number database) > > > and > > > found a painter of the same name died early in the last century and no > > > less than 20 identical names in Canada alone. > > > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something unique and you have > > > a > > > chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it could happen that 2 > > > Arthur > > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, but possible). > > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique (counterfeit IDs, > > > bad > > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon May 17 16:10:45 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:10:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <000201c43c53$6bc23ba0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Was there some bit of Bryan's post that wasn't clear? Perhaps "This ends NOW!!!!!" was a bit ambiguous. Everyone else please do NOT get goaded into responding. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 17 May 2004 21:50 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > rose;was (normalization question) > > > ...signature line John ...not a post :) > > William Hindman > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Porter" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > How can you complain about political comments when you include the > following in all your postings: > > > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > Dos Passos > > ? > > > > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > > > > John R. Porter > > I.T. Services > > University of Strathclyde > > Faculty of Education > > 76 Southbrae Drive > > Glasgow > > G13 1PP > > e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk > > Tel. 0141 950 3289 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > Hindman > > Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > > > ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. > > > > William Hindman > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > Dos Passos > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > (normalization question) > > > > > > > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and > everyone > > > else > > who > > > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing > > > heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > > > > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's > > > > pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I > was shocked > > > > to discover that they tracked these things by name > only. I thought > > > > I found a major problem, when they gave me their > original tables > > > > and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me > that SSN > > > > was not required data. > > > > > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a > programmer and as > > > > a private citizen. I told them about a personal > situation of mine > > > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W > Clark. The name > itself > > > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My > > > > friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of > > > > another local > guy > > > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years > ago. I was > > > > in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was > introduced to a guy > > > > who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these > days, but > > > > thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, > because after > > > > speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was > > > > someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a > bit in high > > > > school, shared the same name > as > > > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical > > > > characteristics. > This > > > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, > according > > > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was > looking at > > > > a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was > someone else, > > > > and > that > > > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently > paroled > > > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of > me, when I > left > > > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and > discovered that I > > > > was not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse > happened. > > > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors > arrived > > > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, > > > > showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, > > > > they did want > John > > > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this > > > > turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at > work--had > > > > I been > there, > > > > they would have sorted it out, at the county > jail--probably after > > > > processing! > > > > > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that > I would be > doing > > > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told > > > > them > all > > > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if > the name came > > > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty > familiar with > this > > > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check > to Albany, > > > > and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How > the hell do > > > > they > know > > > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If > there are > > > > two > in > > > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more > > > > people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own > > > > thing. > I > > > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all > have their > > > > own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why > > > > were > paying > > > > such high taxes here! > > > > > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I > know 5 John > > > > Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them > > > > Irish, they do > > > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does > anyone else LOVE > > > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number > > > > database) and found a painter of the same name died > early in the > > > > last century and no less than 20 identical names in > Canada alone. > > > > > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something > unique and you > > > > have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it > could happen > > > > that 2 Arthur > > > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, > but possible). > > > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique > (counterfeit IDs, > > > > bad > > > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon May 17 16:27:21 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:27:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) References: <000201c43c53$6bc23ba0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <005501c43c55$bd033fd0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...excuse me Andy but I posted before reading Bryan's post ...I'm only 97% prescient these days. William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) > Was there some bit of Bryan's post that wasn't clear? Perhaps "This ends > NOW!!!!!" was a bit ambiguous. Everyone else please do NOT get goaded into > responding. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > William Hindman > > Sent: 17 May 2004 21:50 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > ...signature line John ...not a post :) > > > > William Hindman > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John R. Porter" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:03 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > > How can you complain about political comments when you include the > > following in all your postings: > > > > > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > > Dos Passos > > > ? > > > > > > Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. > > > > > > John R. Porter > > > I.T. Services > > > University of Strathclyde > > > Faculty of Education > > > 76 Southbrae Drive > > > Glasgow > > > G13 1PP > > > e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk > > > Tel. 0141 950 3289 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > > Hindman > > > Sent: 17 May 2004 15:22 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > > (normalization question) > > > > > > > > > ...take it to OT Lambert ...this is not a political discussion list. > > > > > > William Hindman > > > "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John > > Dos Passos > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:09 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was > > > (normalization question) > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure this story will bring great cheer to the NRA and > > everyone > > > > else > > > who > > > > believes that your just not a whole person unless you are packing > > > > heat - preferably fully automatic and large caliber. > > > > > > > > "Sad" is best spin I can put on it. > > > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: John Clark [SMTP:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:55 AM > > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a > > > > > rose;was (normalization question) > > > > > > > > > > My first major Access program that I wrote was for our county's > > > > > pistol permit department, to track pistol permits. I > > was shocked > > > > > to discover that they tracked these things by name > > only. I thought > > > > > I found a major problem, when they gave me their > > original tables > > > > > and I discovered hundreds of missing SSNs. They told me > > that SSN > > > > > was not required data. > > > > > > > > > > I told them that I had a problem with this, as a > > programmer and as > > > > > a private citizen. I told them about a personal > > situation of mine > > > > > involving confusion with names. My name is John W > > Clark. The name > > itself > > > > > sounds fake, with all three components being very common. My > > > > > friends used to say that it was a fake name. I first heard of > > > > > another local > > guy > > > > > with the same name, including initial, about 14 years > > ago. I was > > > > > in a bar with a bunch of coworkers, and I was > > introduced to a guy > > > > > who was a friend of a friend. I don't drink much these > > days, but > > > > > thank god that when I did, I was a friendly drunk, > > because after > > > > > speaking to my new friend, I discovered that he thought I was > > > > > someone else--someone who used to beat him up quite a > > bit in high > > > > > school, shared the same name > > as > > > > > me, and apparently also shares some of my physical > > > > > characteristics. > > This > > > > > new friend had gone into the service upon graduation and got, > > according > > > > > to him, quite a bit larger than school days, and he was > > looking at > > > > > a little payback. He told me, that he thought I was > > someone else, > > > > > and > > that > > > > > he and his brother-in-law, who looked like he had been recently > > paroled > > > > > from a penitentiary, were going to kick the hell out of > > me, when I > > left > > > > > the bar. Luckily though, he did speak to me, and > > discovered that I > > > > > was not his prey, and all ended well. > > > > > > > > > > But, a few years later, something potentially much more worse > > happened. > > > > > I was still living at home with my folks--mostly just sleeping > > > > > there--but I was about 20 miles away at work, when some visitors > > arrived > > > > > at their house. Two detectives from the sheriffs department, > > > > > showed up at the house with a warrant for my arrest. Actually, > > > > > they did want > > John > > > > > W Clark, but they were coming to get the wrong one. Again, this > > > > > turned out OK, but it was taken care of, while I was at > > work--had > > > > > I been > > there, > > > > > they would have sorted it out, at the county > > jail--probably after > > > > > processing! > > > > > > > > > > After coming to work for the county, I discovered that > > I would be > > doing > > > > > quite a bit of work for the District Attorney's office. I told > > > > > them > > all > > > > > my stories so that they wouldn't think it was me, if > > the name came > > > > > across their desks. As it turns out, they are pretty > > familiar with > > this > > > > > guy, and they raz me about it quite often. > > > > > > > > > > The pistol permit office send a "Mental Hygiene" check > > to Albany, > > > > > and it is simply a form letter with a name on it. How > > the hell do > > > > > they > > know > > > > > exactly which John W Clark they are sending info on? If > > there are > > > > > two > > in > > > > > this county, how many are in the state? There are several more > > > > > people with the name John Clark in my area without the initial. > > > > > > > > > > I was also surprised to find out that each county does its own > > > > > thing. > > I > > > > > believe there are 62 counties in NY, and they can all > > have their > > > > > own numbering, methods, etc.. All this organization must be why > > > > > were > > paying > > > > > such high taxes here! > > > > > > > > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/17/2004 1:17:26 AM >>> > > > > > As I pointed out in a previous msg on this thread, I > > know 5 John > > > > > Reids, and all of them are in the software biz. Go figure. Them > > > > > Irish, they do > > > > > like to propagate! Check Chicago for example :) (Does > > anyone else LOVE > > > > > Miller's Crossing? My fave movie of all time.) > > > > > > > > > > I googled my own name and then ran 411.com (a phone number > > > > > database) and found a painter of the same name died > > early in the > > > > > last century and no less than 20 identical names in > > Canada alone. > > > > > > > > > > In short, names alone don't cut it. Add something > > unique and you > > > > > have a chance. Phone numbers are candidates, but it > > could happen > > > > > that 2 Arthur > > > > > Fullers reside at the same address (unlikely I admit, > > but possible). > > > > > Even SSNs have been demonstrated to be non-unique > > (counterfeit IDs, > > > > > bad > > > > > coding, identity theft, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 17 16:43:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:43:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAED5@main2.marlow.com> A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I told him he would probably be better off building a forum from scratch. It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I want to do next. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Going to Raid - Win2K Damned if you, damned if you don't. The moderator's lot. :-) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 17 16:47:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAED6@main2.marlow.com> Well if you've been playing Russian roulette, and you're around to talk about it, you're probably pretty good at it! Practice practice practice. Sorry for the OT reply....just couldn't resist. I must disagree with the 'registry' fear though. The registry is just a database. If you interact, let's say with your company's accounting database, do you do a complete backup before you interact with it? Of course not. Then again, you don't push something out the door untested. Sure, during testing you would want a backup readily available, but I really don't see an issue with changing registry values programmatically. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > Hi Rocky et all > > (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in > front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when > the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of > "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). > > Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: > A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. > > It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the > one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the > equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. > > Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It > shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it > when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where > pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has > caused no problems yet. > > /gustav > > > > Hi Rocky, > > > I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently > > working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the > > progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system > > restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. > > > Regards, > > > Matt Pickering > > LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD > > http://www.lupo.net.nz > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Cc: Gordon Bennett > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux > > > > Gustav et al: > > > Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an > > A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually > > change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the > > picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 > > and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the > > registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the > > progress bar despite the reg key setting. > > > Any ideas on what's going on here? > > > TIA and regards, > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Gustav: > > > That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which > > will definitely improve the quality of my products. > > > Best regards, > > > Rocky > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > > > > Hi Rocky (and Seth) > > > Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by > > Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. > > > Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line > > breaks): > > > > > > Option Compare Database > > Option Explicit > > > Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 > > > Public Const REG_SZ = 1 > > > Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ > > ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long > > > Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ > > ByVal hKey As Long, _ > > ByVal lpValueName As String, _ > > ByVal Reserved As Long, _ > > ByVal dwType As Long, _ > > ByRef lpData As Any, _ > > ByVal cbData As Long) As Long > > > Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ > > hKey As Long, _ > > PathVar As String, _ > > ValueVar As String, _ > > DataVar As String) > > > Dim hCurKey As Long > > Dim Result As Long > > > Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) > > > End Sub > > > Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) > > > Dim PathVar As String > > Dim ValueVar As String > > Dim DataVar As String > > > PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics > > Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" > > ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" > > DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") > > > Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) > > > End Sub > > > > > > This worked for me out of the box. > > > But (Seth or anyone?) - I would like to be able to retrieve the setting > > of the key too. > > Something like: > > > Public Declare Function RegGetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ > > Alias "RegGetValueExA" > > ... etc. > > > How can I do that? > > The purpose would be to get the key when launching the app, set it to > > "No" while running, and then resetting it to "Yes" when closing the app > > if that was the initial setting. > > > Also, could you please explain why this line from the code above > > contains "ByVal": > > > Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, > > Len(DataVar)) > > > I know what ByVal means but have never seen it in a call of a function. > > > /gustav > > > >> Thanks for that. The code solution didn't work - just make the > >> progress bar flicker a bit shorter. But changing the key in the > >> registry did work. Problem is, of course, it has to be changed on the > >> target machine. Does anyone know how to get to a registry key through > >> code? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >> Yeatman, Tony > >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:03 AM > >> To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' > >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash > >> > >> An article at Dev Ashish's site explains how to suppress the > >> Loading Image Dialog. > >> > >> http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0038.htm > >> > >> Hope this helps. > >> > >> Tony. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon May 17 20:44:34 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:44:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAED5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40A93242.19516.1441640@localhost> On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] From shait at mindspring.com Mon May 17 21:35:50 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:35:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names, Uniqueness and Normalization In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040517145139.017d9e88@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200405171700.i4HH0SQ16412@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40A93E46.18222.17F9860@localhost> Robert L. Stewart wrote: > about it and then we went over it. We came up with between 27 and > 31 tables. If someone is interested in some of our thoughts about > it, I will post them for you to the list. Otherwise, I will not > waste the space. I'd be interested in your thoughts about the 27-31 tables. If no one else is, I'd appreciate those thoughts off-list. Regards, Stephen From artful at rogers.com Mon May 17 23:01:40 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:01:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <03c301c43c8c$d3256db0$6601a8c0@rock> A signature line is a post, or at least part of one. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 4:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose;was (normalization question) ...signature line John ...not a post :) William Hindman "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Tue May 18 00:03:13 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:03:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional IF for display of Sub report Message-ID: Hello, I am trying to hide/show a subreport depending on the value of a field in the main report. It is a report on animal licences and if the report is approved I need to show conditions of approval, if refused grounds for refusal. Both of which are set up in sub reports named subreport2 and subreport3. The decision is shown on the main report as a field named Status. I have been trying to add it to the report open as follows but am getting an error on the value of the Status any comments or help appreciated. Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) If Me.Status = "Approved" Then Report.subreport3.Visible = "true" Else: Report.subreport2.Visible = "true" End Sub Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange Ph: 02 6391 3250 Fax:02 6391 3290 This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 01:06:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:06:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional IF for display of Sub report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AA34A0.30235.10E1D2E6@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 15:03, connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.go wrote: > > Hello, > > I am trying to hide/show a subreport depending on the value of a field in > the main report. > > It is a report on animal licences and if the report is approved I need to > show conditions of approval, if refused grounds for refusal. Both of which > are set up in sub reports named subreport2 and subreport3. The decision is > shown on the main report as a field named Status. > > I have been trying to add it to the report open as follows but am getting > an error on the value of the Status any comments or help appreciated. > Set in in the Detail_Format -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 03:25:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:25:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional IF for display of Sub report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1477916833.20040518102552@cactus.dk> Hi Connie First "true" must be True as: Report.subreport3.Visible = True Also, you may need to hide the subreport: Dim booStatus As Boolean booStatus = (Me.Status = "Approved") Report.subreport3.Visible = booStatus Report.subreport2.Visible = Not booStatus /gustav > I am trying to hide/show a subreport depending on the value of a field in > the main report. > It is a report on animal licences and if the report is approved I need to > show conditions of approval, if refused grounds for refusal. Both of which > are set up in sub reports named subreport2 and subreport3. The decision is > shown on the main report as a field named Status. > I have been trying to add it to the report open as follows but am getting > an error on the value of the Status any comments or help appreciated. > Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) > If Me.Status = "Approved" Then Report.subreport3.Visible = "true" Else: > Report.subreport2.Visible = "true" > End Sub > Connie Kamrowski From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue May 18 04:29:54 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:29:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Rose by any other name is still a rose; was (normalization question) In-Reply-To: <03c301c43c8c$d3256db0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <000401c43c50$74392990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <40A99F52.16270.1A9AB1@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 0:01, Arthur Fuller wrote: > A signature line is a post, or at least part of one. Arthur...... -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I've learned.... That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done. From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Tue May 18 04:50:35 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:50:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions References: <012001c43ac2$9cf1b850$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001b01c43cbd$91fd5240$3f412d3e@jester> Rocky, to my knowledge the msgboxbuttons show the OS language settings equivelants for 'Yes' and 'No'. At least in my situation. On my developing machine the show 'Yes' and 'No' because i am running english MS winXP pro and the users see 'ja' and 'nee' (Dutch) because the application is running on a Dutch MS win2000 pro PC. HTH Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: [AccessD] Changing Text Box Button Captions > Dear List: > > I'm using MsgBoxes with the vbYesNo parameter so the box shows 'Yes' and > 'No' buttons. Is there a way to control what those buttons display? Change > Yes to Si or Oui, for example. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 18 06:55:56 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:55:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8D8@stekelbes.ithelps.local> How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue May 18 07:51:01 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:51:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access Message-ID: Barcoding in Access is actually very easy to do. It has been an effective solution for me in inventory control. I downloaded barcoding fonts from Elfring and paid approx. $100 for them. Works great! We print the labels for our products on 8-1/2X11 labels and simply stick them on the product. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 08:02:35 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:02:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: Although I have no experience with this, your post intrigued me. I found this...I hope it helps. http://www.outlook-tips.net/howto/send_link.htm. Basically it involves adding a registry key. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 08:04:52 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:04:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: On a second pass, perhaps this is closer to what you had in mind. http://www.outlookcode.com/codedetail.aspx?id=314 Mark -----Original Message----- From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:21:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:21:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Barcoding in Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3825641810.20040518152117@cactus.dk> Hi Julie or her who asked. That's true. And some barcode fonts are available for free. Look up the archive. /gustav > Barcoding in Access is actually very easy to do. It has been an effective > solution for me in inventory control. I downloaded barcoding fonts from > Elfring and paid approx. $100 for them. Works great! > We print the labels for our products on 8-1/2X11 labels and simply stick > them on the product. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue May 18 09:33:00 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:33:00 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: <20040518133257.B5B50254FF3@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Great link Mark. Thanks for finding it. Lots of Outlook coding stuff here. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Date: 18/05/04 13:16 > > On a second pass, perhaps this is closer to what you had in mind. > > http://www.outlookcode.com/codedetail.aspx?id=314 > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. > > > > How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an > E-mail. > > I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail > while I am in the regular e-mail list. > Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to > perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. > > Greetz > > > Erwin Craps > > Zaakvoerder > > www.ithelps.be/jonathan > > > > This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the > intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or > reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal > offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to > the sender. > > IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg > > www.ithelps.be <http://www.ithelps.be/> * www.boxoffice.be > <http://www.boxoffice.be/> * www.stadleuven.be > <http://www.stadleuven.be/> > > IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven > > IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: > Info at ithelps.be > > Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: > Staff at boxoffice.be <mailto:figures at boxoffice.be> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Tue May 18 08:09:58 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:39:58 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function Message-ID: Hi All, I'm having a problem with a line of code that I use to remove a file path from a File name in a Field. The code is Me.ctlImagePath = Right(Me.ctlImagePath, Len(Me.ctlImagePath)- InstrRev(me.ctlImagePath,"\")) The Error I'm Getting is Error 5 Invalid Argument,call or Procedure This is really frustrating as it worked fime a month ago. I can't help but think I need to reference something for it to work however I have no idea what to reference. any help would be great. Cheers Dean From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:57:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:57:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9127786534.20040518155701@cactus.dk> Hi Dean If ctlImagePath is Null, this will fail. As for the references, just that none are marked as "Missing". /gustav > I'm having a problem with a line of code that I use to remove a file path > from a File name in a Field. The code is > Me.ctlImagePath = Right(Me.ctlImagePath, Len(Me.ctlImagePath)- > InstrRev(me.ctlImagePath,"\")) > The Error I'm Getting is Error 5 Invalid Argument,call or Procedure > This is really frustrating as it worked fime a month ago. I can't help but > think I need to reference something for it to work however I have no idea > what to reference. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 08:59:37 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:59:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function Message-ID: When I do a search in the object browser it shows as being in the VBA Library. Reference: Visual Basic For Applications. The path is too long to view completely, but here is the partial path as shown for my installation. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VBA\VBA6\VB... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Tue May 18 09:39:38 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:39:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0DB@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Hello Dean! Does this fail for all path and file names? Do your path &/or file names have spaces in them? Regards Chris Foote - UK > -----Original Message----- > From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Reference to InstrRev Function > > > Hi All, > > I'm having a problem with a line of code that I use to remove > a file path > from a File name in a Field. The code is > > Me.ctlImagePath = Right(Me.ctlImagePath, Len(Me.ctlImagePath)- > InstrRev(me.ctlImagePath,"\")) > > The Error I'm Getting is Error 5 Invalid Argument,call or Procedure > > This is really frustrating as it worked fime a month ago. I > can't help but > think I need to reference something for it to work however I > have no idea > what to reference. > > any help would be great. > > Cheers > > Dean From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 18 10:01:05 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:01:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8E0@stekelbes.ithelps.local> :---)))))) I have on my face, the smile of my 4 year old kid that just got an icecream.... Thanks Marc Looks like a great website, I have some other outlook stuff thjat keep bugging me... Programming in Outlook is not that 123 simple straight forward :-( -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. On a second pass, perhaps this is closer to what you had in mind. http://www.outlookcode.com/codedetail.aspx?id=314 Mark -----Original Message----- From: Erwin Craps - IT Helps [mailto:Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Outlook: adding rightclick menu items. How can I add menu items in the popup menu while rightclicking an E-mail. I need some code to add or change the prefix of a subject of an e-mail while I am in the regular e-mail list. Changing the subject is not the issue both adding the menu items to perform a VBA funtion in the rightclick menu. Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 10:44:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:44:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 11:19:45 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:19:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the ability to include an attached file. A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to Outlook is required." Mark -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 11:50:18 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:50:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: Message-ID: <01ac01c43cf8$338840e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Mark: I've got the code in a couple of other apps where I know outlook will be present. I use the outlook object and it's very flexible. Unfortunately, I won't know that outlook is available on the target machine. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): > > "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and > MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other > third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the > ability to include an attached file. > > A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send > an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here > (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to > Outlook is required." > > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > Dear List: > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to > an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like > it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > DoCmd.SendObject? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 11:59:13 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:59:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: Sorry, I meant only to quote the paragraph in its entirety, not to suggest that you use Outlook. The relevant message being "no...you can't". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Mark: I've got the code in a couple of other apps where I know outlook will be present. I use the outlook object and it's very flexible. Unfortunately, I won't know that outlook is available on the target machine. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): > > "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and > MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other > third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the > ability to include an attached file. > > A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send > an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here > (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to > Outlook is required." > > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > Dear List: > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to > an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like > it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > DoCmd.SendObject? > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 12:22:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:22:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky Have a look here: http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 Please let us know if it works for you. /gustav > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's > machine. > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 12:24:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:24:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: Message-ID: <01ea01c43cfc$f0698990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> rats. :) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Sorry, I meant only to quote the paragraph in its entirety, not to suggest > that you use Outlook. The relevant message being "no...you can't". > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > Mark: > > I've got the code in a couple of other apps where I know outlook will be > present. I use the outlook object and it's very flexible. Unfortunately, I > won't know that outlook is available on the target machine. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:19 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > > According to Peter's Software (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_emfa.htm): > > > > "To include an attachment with your e-mail, you need to use automation and > > MS Outlook (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) or some other > > third-party e-mail software because the SendObject method doesn't have the > > ability to include an attached file. > > > > A subroutine (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt) you can use to send > > an e-mail message with an attachment through MS Outlook is here > > (http://www.peterssoftware.com/c_som.txt). Please note that a reference to > > Outlook is required." > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:44 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to > > an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like > > it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > > DoCmd.SendObject? > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 13:44:32 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:44:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Gustav: Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" and so what shows up in the subject line is: SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Hi Rocky > > Have a look here: > > http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 > > Please let us know if it works for you. > > /gustav > > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's > > machine. > > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue May 18 13:56:30 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question In-Reply-To: <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <1089.24.187.38.171.1084906590.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> sorry for posting excel question, does anyone know how i can fix this so it would post required strings in Column B for the same row ? Oleg Sub CheckFirst4chars() Dim First4 As String Range("A1").EntireRow.Select Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" End If Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail From bheygood at abestsystems.com Tue May 18 13:59:26 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:59:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is great, so if you are processing the the first column, hide the text, show the labels. Thanks so much. I will try asap. bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report You have to lay the labels and text boxes on top of one another in a single column. The width is whatever you need it to be in order to fit in your text. In On_Format of the detail section: If me.left < (ColumnWidthInInches * 1440) then 'code to hide all text boxes 'code to show all labels Me.NextRecord = false Else 'code to show all text boxes 'code to hide all labels End if Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Report > > > And of course as soon as I sent the message, I remembered "Columns" in the > page setup menu. And that is the solution. Thanks anyway. > Now I just need to only have the labels appear once for each horizontal > section instead of for each record. > > TIA > > bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Report > > > Hello to the group, > > I want to create a report that will display 3 or 4 detail > sections across a > page then wrap to the next record below and so on..... > > or : > > record one record two > record three > something about record one something about record two > something about > record three > something else about record one something else record two > something else > record three > something more record one something more record one > something more record > one > > > record four record five > record six > something about record four something about record five > something about > record six > something more record one > > Sub reports come to mind but I can't work it out. Any ideas would be > welcome. > > bob > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 18 14:01:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:01:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEDE@main2.marlow.com> No, actually, I was asking the AccessD list of what they thought of setting up DatabaseAdvisor forums. Sure used some DBATech keywords, but it was meant for this list. AccessD works great as email (same with OT), but the problem with an email list, versus a forum, is that it is harder to keep track of a thread. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue May 18 14:01:48 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:01:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question Message-ID: Try this: If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" Activecell.value = "XXXX" Activecell.offset(0,-1) ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" Activecell.value = "YYYY" Activecell.offset(0,-1) End If Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent by: To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question 05/18/2004 01:56 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" sorry for posting excel question, does anyone know how i can fix this so it would post required strings in Column B for the same row ? Oleg Sub CheckFirst4chars() Dim First4 As String Range("A1").EntireRow.Select Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" End If Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 14:07:14 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:07:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <8940124906.20040518192240@cactus.dk> <021901c43d08$28ad1140$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <14646399549.20040518210714@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky That's what I thought, I'm having problems with this code as well. Maybe it represents wishful thinking only? /gustav > Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: > ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > and so what shows up in the subject line is: > SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? > I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. > Regards, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email >> Hi Rocky >> >> Have a look here: >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 >> >> Please let us know if it works for you. >> >> /gustav >> >> > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe >> user's >> > machine. >> >> > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue May 18 14:10:55 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1114.24.187.38.171.1084907455.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> ok, i will meanwhile i wrote this lovely piece, which froze my excel :--) Sub CheckFirst4chars() Dim First4 As String Dim f, n Range("A1").EntireRow.Select Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " f = ActiveCell.Row n = "B" & f If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then Range(n).Value = "XXXX" ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then Range(n).Value = "YYYY" End If Loop End Sub > > Try this: > > If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then > Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" > Activecell.value = "XXXX" > Activecell.offset(0,-1) > ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then > Activecell.offset(0,1).select 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" > Activecell.value = "YYYY" > Activecell.offset(0,-1) > > End If > > > > Oleg_123 at xuppa.com > > Sent by: > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > accessd-bounces at databasea cc: > > dvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel VBA question > > > > 05/18/2004 01:56 PM > > Please respond to "Access > > Developers > discussion and > > problem solving" > > > > > > > > > sorry for posting excel question, > does anyone know how i can fix this so it would post required strings in > Column B for the same row ? > Oleg > > Sub CheckFirst4chars() > Dim First4 As String > Range("A1").EntireRow.Select > Do While ActiveCell.Value <> " " > If Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "XX" Then > 'same cell coumn B = "XXXX" > ElseIf Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) = "YY" Then > 'same cell coumn B = "YYYY" > End If > Loop > End Sub > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: > www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get the BUZZ on your Friends, Relatives and Celebrities: www.xuppa.com/buzz/?link=webmail From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue May 18 14:13:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:13:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: Just off the top of my head I see that the other fields are of the form "&Subject=", where there is a preceding "&"...I don't see that for the Attach part. Perhaps it should read "&Attach="...what do you think? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Hi Rocky That's what I thought, I'm having problems with this code as well. Maybe it represents wishful thinking only? /gustav > Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: > ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > and so what shows up in the subject line is: > SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" > Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? > I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. > Regards, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email >> Hi Rocky >> >> Have a look here: >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaqs.cfm/pid/705/fid/537 >> >> Please let us know if it works for you. >> >> /gustav >> >> > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe >> user's >> > machine. >> >> > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 17:01:35 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:01:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AB145F.9051.2149917@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 8:44, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Dear List: > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook > them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it > looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > DoCmd.SendObject? > As others have said, yopu can't do it with Docmd.SendObject. That's one of the reasons I wrote MAPISend. "MAPISend is a simple Command Line utility to send messages (and attachments) via any MAPI compliant email system (such as Pegasus Mail). You can use it in batch files or macros/modules in other programs to automate emailing documents. If you run MAPISend without any parameters, it will display a simple help screen. " You can download MAPISend from http://www.lexacorp.com.pg (follow the "Free Software" link). It's an 11KB zip file. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Tue May 18 17:21:04 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:21:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AB145F.9051.2149917@localhost> Message-ID: Rocky, Have you thought about sending your e-mail through SMTP? I threw together a class a few weeks back that uses the OSSMTP.dll, which is free, and avoids all the Outlook security baggage... I mainly use it as a part of my programs Advanced Error System, which sends me every un-expected error in my programs from the users system. You can send multiple attachments, HTML, Etc.... If you want a copy, it yours... PS, you will have to incorporates it's functions in a form, as I just use the class directly, and you will need the user's (or use your own, hard programmed) SMTP server information... Let Me Know! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 18:30:07 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:30:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <40AB145F.9051.2149917@localhost> Message-ID: <030601c43d30$0e826e50$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Thanks. Got it. It's working, too! For one file. Is there a way to attach more than one file? This works: lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S " _ & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT ") but this doesn't: lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S " _ & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT, " _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") Also, it appears to need the full path to find Mapisend.exe and the full path to find the attachment files. Yes? Regards, is ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > On 18 May 2004 at 8:44, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook > > them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it > > looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > > > But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by > > DoCmd.SendObject? > > > > As others have said, yopu can't do it with Docmd.SendObject. That's > one of the reasons I wrote MAPISend. > > "MAPISend is a simple Command Line utility to send messages (and > attachments) via any MAPI compliant email system (such as Pegasus > Mail). You can use it in batch files or macros/modules in other > programs to automate emailing documents. If you run MAPISend without > any parameters, it will display a simple help screen. " > > You can download MAPISend from http://www.lexacorp.com.pg (follow the > "Free Software" link). It's an 11KB zip file. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 18:32:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:32:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: Message-ID: <030c01c43d30$58321be0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Robert: Thanks. I'm going to work on Stuart's MAPISend for the moment. This requirement will be going out to dozens of end users and I won't really have any idea about their configuration. We may even put it in the final product so that we could assemble data from hundreds or thousands of users and do a study. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gracie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Rocky, > Have you thought about sending your e-mail through SMTP? I threw together a > class a few weeks back that uses the OSSMTP.dll, which is free, and avoids > all the Outlook security baggage... I mainly use it as a part of my programs > Advanced Error System, which sends me every un-expected error in my programs > from the users system. You can send multiple attachments, HTML, Etc.... > > If you want a copy, it yours... > > PS, you will have to incorporates it's functions in a form, as I just use > the class directly, and you will need the user's (or use your own, hard > programmed) SMTP server information... > > Let Me Know! > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 18 20:05:26 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEDE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I have had a little experience with setting up some forums and will send you info off-line when I find out where to send it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K No, actually, I was asking the AccessD list of what they thought of setting up DatabaseAdvisor forums. Sure used some DBATech keywords, but it was meant for this list. AccessD works great as email (same with OT), but the problem with an email list, versus a forum, is that it is harder to keep track of a thread. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 20:53:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:53:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <030601c43d30$0e826e50$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AB4ABA.24510.2E8ED2C@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 16:30, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Stuart: > > Thanks. Got it. It's working, too! For one file. > > Is there a way to attach more than one file? > > This works: > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > " _ > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT ") > > but this doesn't: > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > " _ > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT, " _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > Delimit them with semicolons ";" without any leading or trailing spaces. & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT;" _ & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > Also, it appears to need the full path to find Mapisend.exe and the full > path to find the attachment files. Yes? > MAPISend - the full path is required unless it is in the *current* directory when you shell out, or it is your Path (otherwise the Slee command won't find it) Attached Files, yes - the full path is required. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 18 22:10:06 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:10:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <40AB4ABA.24510.2E8ED2C@localhost> Message-ID: <031f01c43d4e$c95f5cb0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Beautiful. Works like a charm. And what tech support! Did you write this in VB? Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > On 18 May 2004 at 16:30, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Stuart: > > > > Thanks. Got it. It's working, too! For one file. > > > > Is there a way to attach more than one file? > > > > This works: > > > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > > " _ > > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT ") > > > > but this doesn't: > > > > lngResult = Shell("C:\Clients\SleepDoc\Mapisend.exe /A BchAcc at san.rr.com /S > > " _ > > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT, " _ > > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > > > > Delimit them with semicolons ";" without any leading or trailing spaces. > > & "SleepDoc Data From " & gstrPatientName & "/E /F" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "1.TXT;" _ > & "C:\Clients\SleepDoc\" & gstrPatientName & "2.TXT") > > > > Also, it appears to need the full path to find Mapisend.exe and the full > > path to find the attachment files. Yes? > > > > MAPISend - the full path is required unless it is in the *current* > directory when you shell out, or it is your Path (otherwise the Slee > command won't find it) > > Attached Files, yes - the full path is required. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 18 23:07:33 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:07:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <031f01c43d4e$c95f5cb0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AB6A25.22929.363A86C@localhost> On 18 May 2004 at 20:10, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Stuart: > > Beautiful. Works like a charm. And what tech support! Did you write this > in VB? > What, a 15KB executable with no dependencies in VB? ROTFLMAO! It's written in PowerBasic, which incidentally means, I could just as easily build it as a real DLL and avoid having to SHELL. to an executable :-) It is based to a large extent on a set of public domain MAPI declarations and wrapper functions written by Don Dickinson. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From KP at sdsonline.net Tue May 18 23:31:39 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:31:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Help - urgent query field length problem Message-ID: <000801c43d5a$2e63a610$6501a8c0@user> Hi everybody - This is driving me crazy - any reasons? I have a query field: B1Name: [Forms]![frmClientContractDetails]![FrmClientContractDetailsB1Subform].[Form]![BorrowerName] I thought that the maximum length of an expression such as this would be 255, but when my field [borrowername] contains more than 127 characters my query crashes with error: 'Invalid Argument'. TIA Kath From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 19 00:34:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 01:34:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AB6A25.22929.363A86C@localhost> Message-ID: I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email On 18 May 2004 at 20:10, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Stuart: > > Beautiful. Works like a charm. And what tech support! Did you write this > in VB? > What, a 15KB executable with no dependencies in VB? ROTFLMAO! It's written in PowerBasic, which incidentally means, I could just as easily build it as a real DLL and avoid having to SHELL. to an executable :-) It is based to a large extent on a set of public domain MAPI declarations and wrapper functions written by Don Dickinson. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 01:17:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:17:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: References: <40AB6A25.22929.363A86C@localhost> Message-ID: <40AB88B0.2238.3DAF810@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 1:34, John W. Colby wrote: > I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? > Working on a couple of other things at the moment. Give me 'til tomorrow morning (PNG time that is) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 19 01:38:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:38:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1852043738.20040519083841@cactus.dk> Hi Mark I think you are right ... but no luck. /gustav > Just off the top of my head I see that the other fields are of the form > "&Subject=", where there is a preceding "&"...I don't see that for the > Attach part. Perhaps it should read "&Attach="...what do you think? > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > Hi Rocky > That's what I thought, I'm having problems with this code as well. > Maybe it represents wishful thinking only? > /gustav >> Very close. Address is inserted correctly. However, the attachment is >> coming out in the subject line. sAddedtext contains: >> ?Subject=SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic >> Insomnia2.TXT" >> and so what shows up in the subject line is: >> SleepDoc Data From Alpha Basic Insomnia Attach="Alpha Basic Insomnia2.TXT" >> Now, I'm not drawing the data from text boxes like it says in the article. >> I've just hard coded it. Could be a missing delimiter? >> I tried adding a ? before Attach but it didn't make any difference. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 19 06:15:24 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:15:24 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <24487335.1084965324845.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it?s not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed May 19 08:01:28 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:01:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0EC@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & Access terminates. I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 box. Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( Regards Chris Foote - UK From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Wed May 19 08:30:43 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:30:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: Chris, Have you checked to make sure that something hasn't gotten corrupted in there? Try Repair/compact, JetComp, importing into another mdb, maybe even recreating the report and subreports, and see if that doesn't help. HTH, Steve -----Chris Foote's Original Message----- One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & Access terminates. I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 box. Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( Regards Chris Foote - UK From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed May 19 08:45:34 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:45:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: Does it do the same thing on another computer? Knowing that could tell us if it's the database or system or Access installation that is the problem. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Foote, Chris" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Subject: [AccessD] Application Error >Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:01:28 +0100 > > >One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. > >She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. > >The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button >she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" >referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & >Access >terminates. > >I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility >that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. > >It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 >box. > >Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? > >My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up >having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( > >Regards >Chris Foote - UK From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 08:49:14 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:49:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AB88B0.2238.3DAF810@localhost> References: Message-ID: <40ABF27A.7150.578331C@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 16:17, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > On 19 May 2004 at 1:34, John W. Colby wrote: > > > I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? > > > > Working on a couple of other things at the moment. Give me 'til > tomorrow morning (PNG time that is) > It may take a bit longer than I thought to convert MAPISend to a DLL. Calling MAPISend .exe, it pokes everything into the mail client in about half a second. Calling exactly the same thing as a DLL, it takes nearly a minute. I can watch the Addresses, Subject, Body and Attachment info being inserted into a new message with an interval of 10 seconds or so between each field. (At the same time, the Access app that I am calling the DLL from is showing 99% CPU usage in the task manager) Damned if I can see why. Ultimately, all of the info is gathered and passed in one structure in a single call to the MapiSendMail function in MAPI32.DLL. I can't see why it would then take MAPI32.DLL quite a few seconds to poke each field at the client. Any API gurus got any ideas? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed May 19 09:02:59 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:02:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0F0@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Hi Steve! We've tried Repair/Compact several times. Updated Jet from SR2-SP2 to SR2-SP3. My colleague is trying her db on a different box as I write this. Thanks for you help. Chris Foote - UK > -----Original Message----- > From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:31 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Application Error > > > Chris, > > Have you checked to make sure that something hasn't gotten > corrupted in > there? Try Repair/compact, JetComp, importing into another mdb, maybe > even recreating the report and subreports, and see if that > doesn't help. > > HTH, > > Steve From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed May 19 09:03:50 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:03:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C0F1@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Cheers Gary! Just trying that now. Regards Chris Foote - UK > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:46 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Application Error > > > Does it do the same thing on another computer? Knowing that > could tell us > if it's the database or system or Access installation that is > the problem. > > Gary Kjos From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 09:13:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:13:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEE5@main2.marlow.com> drewshome at wolfwares.com Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K Hi Drew: I have had a little experience with setting up some forums and will send you info off-line when I find out where to send it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K No, actually, I was asking the AccessD list of what they thought of setting up DatabaseAdvisor forums. Sure used some DBATech keywords, but it was meant for this list. AccessD works great as email (same with OT), but the problem with an email list, versus a forum, is that it is harder to keep track of a thread. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AccessD Forums WAS: Going to Raid - Win2K On 17 May 2004 at 16:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > A friend of mine (actually, the son of a friend of mine) wanted me to > help him with a php based forum he was working on. He was trying to > merge two 'free' systems together. Both systems were flexible in > their own right, but it was like trying to mix apples and oranges. I > told him he would probably be better off building a forum from > scratch. > > It got me thinking though. I've always debated about building a forum > for my website, would that be something we would like to move some of > the slower Database Advisor 'lists' too? Just curious. Right now > it's not a top priority for me, but I have a lot of 'backburner' > projects sitting on the stove. It's just a matter of picking what I > want to do next. PHP. Web Forums. Dba-tech is where this was meant to go, right Drew. Right? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.^ [Robert Wilensky (1997)] -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 09:15:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:15:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Application Error Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEE6@main2.marlow.com> Make sure it's not a printer error either. Try printing it to different printers. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Foote, Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Application Error One of my colleagues is having a problem with one of her A97 databases. She has a complicated Report with at least four embedded sub-reports. The Report formats and views just fine but when she clicks the Print button she gets the following error message "The instruction at "0x300f5243" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The memory could not be "read"." & Access terminates. I've searched the M$ Knowledge Base to no avail apart from the possibility that this error message has been seen when installing Visual Studio C++. It may be relevant that she's got Visual Studio C++ installed on her NT4 box. Can anyone please point me in a good direction to sort this? My colleague is leaving the company in three weeks time & I may end up having to maintain her db when she leaves :-( Regards Chris Foote - UK -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed May 19 10:00:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <05f201c43db2$1336fba0$6601a8c0@rock> Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed May 19 10:05:58 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <006f01c43db2$cac4e1b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 19 10:07:03 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:07:03 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <20928148.1084979223807.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> not sure if you can do it in a selected statement, if you can I would be very interets in seeing it. I ended up creating a table with the three fields in and writing a function using TableDef properties to update the table Message date : May 19 2004, 04:03 PM >From : "Arthur Fuller" To : "AccessD" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 10:12:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:12:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEA@main2.marlow.com> As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a little more. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed May 19 10:17:21 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:17:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001101c43db4$61cfc330$9111758f@aine> Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the > 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, > so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a > little more. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column > name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at > the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as > a table if possible. > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 10:20:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:20:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEB@main2.marlow.com> Rocky, I've seen this kind of discussion a lot on the list. About comparing dates with different regional settings. I've also brought up this solution a few times, but I think people tend to overlook it. Date formats are just the 'human' method of identifying dates. To Access, a date is a Double Number. The whole part is the date, and the decimal part is the time. So if you are trying to compare two dates, it really doesn't matter what the regional settings are, it's a numerical value compare. Now, from your post I might assume that you are encrypting a string representation of your 'date'. If that is the case, the easiest method to force a string back to a date, AND be able to ignore the regional settings is the DateSerial function. (There is also a TimeSerial function). The DateSerial asks for a year, month, and day argument. The order of the arguments are not affected by regional settings, it's set in VB. So, just return a date variable using DateSerial feeding it the values from your 'date string', and you now have an actual 'date' to compare with Date(). No muss, no fuss, and no API's. (Not saying anything against API's, in fact I use API's all the time, just don't see the big deal about dates, because DateSerial is one very handy date function.) Of course, dates and the functions involved can be a little confusing, in fact, Date(), Time() and Now() are the only functions I know of off hand, that not only return a value, but can also be put on the other side of =, to SET their value. Go figure. It's no wonder that Dates and Times are a complex subject. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:06 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed May 19 10:20:55 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:20:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3088A18B@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB533@ADGSERVER> Wouldn't that be 'That would create a field called SomeOtherName' instead of 'That would create a field called MyField'? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a little more. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 10:29:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:29:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in the system format. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 10:39:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:39:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 10:41:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:41:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEEC@main2.marlow.com> Yeah, wrote that before my first cup of coffee. Sorry. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Wouldn't that be 'That would create a field called SomeOtherName' instead of 'That would create a field called MyField'? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement is the AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be able to help a little more. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want the results as a table if possible. TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 10:41:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:41:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 19 10:43:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:43:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). /gustav > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in > the system format. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Dear List: > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > but can't seem to find what I want. > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > cases as I find more short date formats. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 10:44:46 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:44:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 19 10:52:36 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:52:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <31794206.1084981956253.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed May 19 11:01:26 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:01:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Electronic Invoice Tool according to EC directive 2001/115/EG Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8EB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Hi A customer asks me to generate electronic invoices from an invoicing app I wrote several years ago. As you know Electronic Invoices in an EC country need to be according the EC directive 2001/115/EG. To keep a long story short, this means that a invoice needs to be authenticated AND content verification before sending. The format is of no importance but it has to be a common format. So I wonder if there exist already tools for Access/VBA to do this. Can Acrobat do this? Greetz Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 11:12:58 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:12:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 11:50:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:50:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF0@main2.marlow.com> Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 12:00:58 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:00:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 12:15:22 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:15:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:21:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:21:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 12:37:34 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:37:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of unbound controls and continuous forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 12:42:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:42:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:45:35 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:45:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of unbound controls and continuous forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 12:43:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:43:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: Nope. I avoid them. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:48:14 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:48:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another suggestion that may work? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 12:54:30 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:54:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Charlotte, Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of unbound controls and continuous forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed May 19 12:55:34 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:55:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 19 13:03:50 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:03:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00af01c43dcb$a5e091f0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Effective immediately John I believe. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:56 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I > want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I > was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also > signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu May 6 21:15:04 2004 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:15:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. References: Message-ID: <409AF127.BABE53FC@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it > changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color > code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a > continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox > changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not > just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 19 13:11:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:11:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00b001c43dcc$c3c24cd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I use a method I got from one of the sites (can't remember which) which highlights the current row (colours the background) as you move up and down a continuous form in A97. If that's what you're after I can email it to you. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:48 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box > on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to > be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual > box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another > suggestion that may work? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] > On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed May 19 13:11:31 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:11:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: Hi John, It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 13:12:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: <409AF127.BABE53FC@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <20040519181248.YELW1706.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've never tried this way Scott -- there is a more complex way to get the job done -- but if this works, great! ;) Susan H. Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when > it changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the > color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to > yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is > the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each > record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 13:17:07 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:17:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Andy, Sure why not. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:12 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I use a method I got from one of the sites (can't remember which) which highlights the current row (colours the background) as you move up and down a continuous form in A97. If that's what you're after I can email it to you. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:48 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box > on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to > be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual > box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another > suggestion that may work? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] > On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 13:17:46 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:17:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Thanks, I'll give it a whirl or some form of a twist. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it > changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color > code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a > continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox > changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not > just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed May 19 13:18:06 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:18:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: The OT list must have changed a bit then, because I don't think there was ever a period of inactivity, while I was on it...then again, that might just say something about me! I've got a question regarding "rent to own" real estate, and I am having trouble finding any quality info on it, so I figured I could definitlely find somebody on the OT list. I don't know if anyone realized what a plethora of knowledge we have assembled on our lists, but I don't think that I haven't gotten help or support for anything I have ever asked. Thanks. I'll check again later. John >>> andy at minstersystems.co.uk 5/19/2004 2:03:50 PM >>> Effective immediately John I believe. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:56 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I > want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I > was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also > signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 13:24:14 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:24:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040519182412.YKNP1706.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You forgot to slip Rabbit a $20 didn't ya? ;) Susan H. The OT list must have changed a bit then, because I don't think there was ever a period of inactivity, while I was on it...then again, that might just say something about me! I've got a question regarding "rent to own" real estate, and I am having trouble finding any quality info on it, so I figured I could definitlely find somebody on the OT list. I don't know if anyone realized what a plethora of knowledge we have assembled on our lists, but I don't think that I haven't gotten help or support for anything I have ever asked. Thanks. I'll check again later. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 13:25:20 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:25:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Thank you Charlotte, but...now I'm confused. Can you tell me why these two functions do not behave in the same manner? The first is my original (doesn't work), the second (does work) was converted from the macro you suggested (which also worked, btw). Mark '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/19/2004 1:07:25 PM Function fCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo Err_fCloseSwbd DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" Exit_fCloseSwbd: Exit Function Err_fCloseSwbd: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Form_Switchboard.fCloseSwbd" Resume Exit_fCloseSwbd Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function '------------------------------------------------------------ ' macCloseSwbd '------------------------------------------------------------ Function macCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo macCloseSwbd_Err DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" End 'In the macro, I added a "StopAllMacros" line. macCloseSwbd_Exit: Exit Function macCloseSwbd_Err: MsgBox Error$ Resume macCloseSwbd_Exit End Function -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 13:29:19 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:29:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: This works for a textbox. I need it to work for a checkbox. If the check box wouldn't disappear, I would put the textbox behind the checkbox and intercepts keyboard command to change the checkbox control. Just thinking out loud...it might trigger some other ideas. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Hey Scott Hope this helps Make the backcolor of the textbox yellow and make the back style transparent. As you arrow up and down the continous form the current textbox with the focus will display in yellow. Scott Marcus wrote: > Charlotte, > > Forgot to say thank you for responding. Without the "thank you", my post sounds rude. I do appreciate your help. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I realize that. I also realized after my post that they way I did it before was to have a bound picture box in every record for the solid color I wanted to use. This color was more of a status indicator for the whole record - not a highlighter of an individual field. I said all that because I believe it can't be done (in Access 97 anyway). > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > There *is* only one of the textboxes on the continuous form, so when it > changes color, you see it in every record. That is the nature of > unbound controls and continuous forms. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color > code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a > continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox > changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not > just the one being edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 13:33:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:33:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF3@main2.marlow.com> Oh, you want to close the form with a command button 'generated' from the switchboard itself? I think Charlotte and I both were assuming you were just going to put your own button on there. Okay, then yes, build a function, but use: DoCmd.Close acForm,"Switchboard" Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 19 13:34:57 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:34:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002301c43dcf$fc5351e0$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Scott, Take a look at http://www.mvps.org/access/forms/frm0047.htm. Don't know if this is what your looking for but it gives a way to highlight the record with focus in a continuous form. I have used it and it works well. Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance of that textbox in each record (not just the one being edited). Any takers? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed May 19 13:36:27 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:36:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: What if its a chocolate $20?! >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 5/19/2004 2:24:14 PM >>> You forgot to slip Rabbit a $20 didn't ya? ;) Susan H. The OT list must have changed a bit then, because I don't think there was ever a period of inactivity, while I was on it...then again, that might just say something about me! I've got a question regarding "rent to own" real estate, and I am having trouble finding any quality info on it, so I figured I could definitlely find somebody on the OT list. I don't know if anyone realized what a plethora of knowledge we have assembled on our lists, but I don't think that I haven't gotten help or support for anything I have ever asked. Thanks. I'll check again later. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 19 14:00:45 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:00:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. In-Reply-To: <002301c43dcf$fc5351e0$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Message-ID: <00b201c43dd3$985e09b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Scott That is what I was looking for. I must have simplified it though (or used a simplified version). Firstly use OnCurrent to put the current record's unique id into an unbound control in the form header, then the IIF test on the control in the detail is just =IIf(me!ctlInHeader=me!ctlInCurrentLine,"????????????",Null) Which will only be true for one record. This causes that record to display the solid bar and the rest Null. The GetLineNumber function is far more complex than is necessary. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: 19 May 2004 19:35 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > Scott, > > Take a look at http://www.mvps.org/access/forms/frm0047.htm. > Don't know if this is what your looking for but it gives a > way to highlight the record with focus in a continuous form. > I have used it and it works well. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 19 14:25:38 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:25:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Message-ID: Thanks Andy. I was looking at the GetLineNumber code and am developing exactly the same thing you are suggesting. I looked at that code and said "That's too much work. A couple lines of code should do." So far I'm at 1 line of code. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. Scott That is what I was looking for. I must have simplified it though (or used a simplified version). Firstly use OnCurrent to put the current record's unique id into an unbound control in the form header, then the IIF test on the control in the detail is just =IIf(me!ctlInHeader=me!ctlInCurrentLine,"????????????",Null) Which will only be true for one record. This causes that record to display the solid bar and the rest Null. The GetLineNumber function is far more complex than is necessary. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: 19 May 2004 19:35 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form. > > > Scott, > > Take a look at http://www.mvps.org/access/forms/frm0047.htm. > Don't know if this is what your looking for but it gives a > way to highlight the record with focus in a continuous form. > I have used it and it works well. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > edited). Any takers? > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 19 15:00:38 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:00:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E809E1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I wrote a fairly easy to series of class modules that let you create menus dynamically. Drop me a line off-list and I'll send you a demo if you like (jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org). Off-line requests only please. Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 15:01:01 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:01:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: Is that actually what you had in your original function? I thought you had something like "Form_Switchboard", which wouldn't work because that refers to the module, not the form. I don't see any reason for the Resume 0 in your error handler, since it should never execute anyhow, and Resume 0 turns off error handling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Thank you Charlotte, but...now I'm confused. Can you tell me why these two functions do not behave in the same manner? The first is my original (doesn't work), the second (does work) was converted from the macro you suggested (which also worked, btw). Mark '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/19/2004 1:07:25 PM Function fCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo Err_fCloseSwbd DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" Exit_fCloseSwbd: Exit Function Err_fCloseSwbd: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Form_Switchboard.fCloseSwbd" Resume Exit_fCloseSwbd Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function '------------------------------------------------------------ ' macCloseSwbd '------------------------------------------------------------ Function macCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo macCloseSwbd_Err DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" End 'In the macro, I added a "StopAllMacros" line. macCloseSwbd_Exit: Exit Function macCloseSwbd_Err: MsgBox Error$ Resume macCloseSwbd_Exit End Function -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 15:03:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:03:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: Menus or menus on forms? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form I wrote a fairly easy to series of class modules that let you create menus dynamically. Drop me a line off-list and I'll send you a demo if you like (jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org). Off-line requests only please. Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 19 15:11:43 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:11:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Message-ID: I did have it listed that way until Drew's comment regarding calling from a module. The current module status is as listed below, where one function works, the other doesn't. The "Resume 0" is a line inserted by John Colby's error handler add-in. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Is that actually what you had in your original function? I thought you had something like "Form_Switchboard", which wouldn't work because that refers to the module, not the form. I don't see any reason for the Resume 0 in your error handler, since it should never execute anyhow, and Resume 0 turns off error handling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Thank you Charlotte, but...now I'm confused. Can you tell me why these two functions do not behave in the same manner? The first is my original (doesn't work), the second (does work) was converted from the macro you suggested (which also worked, btw). Mark '.Created by: Mark Mitsules '.Created : 5/19/2004 1:07:25 PM Function fCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo Err_fCloseSwbd DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" Exit_fCloseSwbd: Exit Function Err_fCloseSwbd: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Form_Switchboard.fCloseSwbd" Resume Exit_fCloseSwbd Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function '------------------------------------------------------------ ' macCloseSwbd '------------------------------------------------------------ Function macCloseSwbd() On Error GoTo macCloseSwbd_Err DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" End 'In the macro, I added a "StopAllMacros" line. macCloseSwbd_Exit: Exit Function macCloseSwbd_Err: MsgBox Error$ Resume macCloseSwbd_Exit End Function -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Try building a macro to close the switchboard form and see whether you can call it properly from the switchboard. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Based on what has been suggested I have: Function fCloseSwbd() DoCmd.Close acForm, "Form_Switchboard", acSaveNo End Function The switchboard button uses the RunCode option to call fCloseSwbd. I set a breakpoint at the entry point of fCloseSwbd, but the code never reaches it. The error I am getting is "There was an error executing the command.". Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the RunCode option in some manner... Mark -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard Yes, on the OnClick event of your 'close' button, just put the code Charlotte posted. 'DoCmd.Close'. When you run it directly on a form, you don't have to tell it what to close. If you run it from a module, then you have to tell it what to close, because a module can't be 'closed'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard So you're saying use the RunCode option, create a function like fCloseSwbd() and place DoCmd.Close in there? Didn't work. Did I misinterpret? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Close Switchboard DoCmd.Close Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:41 AM To: '[AccessD]' Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard I'm drawing a huge blank here. I want a switchboard button that simply closes the form...which will allow the code in Form_Close to run. What is the simplest way to do this? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed May 19 15:24:29 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:24:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Message-ID: Hello All, What methods can you use to connect to an A2K mdb with ASP? Rumor is that I have to use an ODBC connection.. Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 19 15:39:24 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:39:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5EE@TAPPEEXCH01> Bwaaa?! Access has had this built-in this functionality since the very early days (A2 at least). Unfortunately you need to use macros to do it. Do a search AddMenu in online Help, and it should point you in the right direction. Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 15:55:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:55:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF6@main2.marlow.com> ADO. Use the Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0 provider with ADO. (Works with A2k and below db's (I've connected to AXP databases too, but I don't know if they were saved in true XP format.) You can use DAO too, but DAO may not be available on all webservers. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Hello All, What methods can you use to connect to an A2K mdb with ASP? Rumor is that I have to use an ODBC connection.. Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed May 19 16:06:05 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:06:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D37B@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA From dc8 at btinternet.com Wed May 19 15:26:18 2004 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:26:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab Message-ID: Hi List, I have a batch of Access reports which are currently created and saved as RTF files. I now need to export the reports to Excel but have run into a major problem. At the very top level all fields have data to return and the code I have written outputs the whole crosstab to Excel, copies the values into another sheet which is formatted to look like the original reports. I force null entries in the query to return a 0 with IIf(Count([FIELD]) Is Null,0,Count([FIELD])) so that the Excel report shows a value. However, as the data is run against other areas, there are gaps in the data so I cannot use the whole crosstab export approach. I will never know which items may be present as the data changes on a weekly basis. Example AreaTotals type1a data data data data AreaTotals type1b data data data data AreaTotals type2a data data data data AreaTotals type2b data data data data AreaTotals type3a data data data data AreaTotals type3b data data data data Area1 type1a data data data data Area1 type2a data data data data Area1 type3b data data data data Area2 type2a data data data data Area2 type2b data data data data Is there any way to make the crosstab output all values even if there is no data to return ? So the third example above would look like this Area2 type1a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Area2 type1b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Area2 type2a data data data data <<<< only data available Area2 type2b data data data data <<<< only data available Area2 type3a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Area2 type3b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line Thanks in advance for any pointers. Chris Swann From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 16:15:25 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:15:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. References: Message-ID: <002301c43de6$670c2c80$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> www.lebans.com has an excellent sample A97 mdb for highlighting rows in continuous forms. William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Marcus" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > Andy, > > Sure why not. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:12 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form. > > I use a method I got from one of the sites (can't remember which) which > highlights the current row (colours the background) as you move up and down > a continuous form in A97. If that's what you're after I can email it to you. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Scott Marcus > > Sent: 19 May 2004 18:48 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > > continuous form. > > > > > > What I'm trying to do is... make it apparent that a check box > > on a particular record has the focus. A highlight seemed to > > be a good solution (since the dotted line around the actual > > box isn't very noticeable). Does anyone have another > > suggestion that may work? > > > > Scott Marcus > > TSS Technologies, Inc. > > marcus at tsstech.com > > (513) 772-7000 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] > On Behalf Of > > Scott Marcus > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:22 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a > > continuous form. > > > > I've done this before for a textbox bound to a field that has > > the color code in it. What I need is to change an UNBOUND > > textbox to yellow in a continuous form when it has focus. The > > problem I get is the textbox changes color for every instance > > of that textbox in each record (not just the one being > > edited). Any takers? > > > > Scott Marcus > > TSS Technologies, Inc. > > marcus at tsstech.com > > (513) 772-7000 > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed May 19 16:28:13 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:28:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat References: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D37B@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: <003b01c43de8$30fcaff0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...a couple of notes on AXP bloat ...there is a bug in the AXP file format that just bloats a db and compact repair doesn't fix it ...you either work with the A2K file format or you routinely create a new AXP db and import the old code into it ...a royal pita if there ever was one :( ...I do virtually the same thing you describe ...my approach has been to use a separate mdb to do all the importing and data manipulation and only then to update the main db with the extracted data ...then I clear every table in the import mdb and compact it before putting it back into wait state for another import ...this works pretty well for me using A2K formatted mdbs in AXP. ...hth William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat > Hello, All > > I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the > appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are > detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - > either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type > of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp > table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and > appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table > is then purged and the cycle is repeated. > > It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock > capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to > run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by > this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and > its size came down to about 55 meg. > > I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm > interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which > ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it > via automation once it appears in my db. > > Running Access XP on Win2k. > > Thanks! > > Don McGillivray > Sprint Mailing Services > Rancho Cordova, CA > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 19 16:48:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:48:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEF7@main2.marlow.com> Well, from what you describe, your main bloat factor are those temp tables. When you delete data within a database, the space is not reused. So if you import 10 megs, then work with it, then delete it, and import another 10 megs, the first 10 megs is still there. Another issue of bloat is modifying data. It can have a similar affect to deleting data, but probably not as bad. The first thing I would look into doing, to make an immediate change to the size increase, is to not put the temp tables in the 'live' database. Instead, put the temp table in a blank .mdb. You can link the temp table to the blank db, and then when you're done with the data in that table, delete the .mdb, and copy a 'new' blank version into it's place. If the 'live' db isn't using it, it should care if the 'temp' database is replaced. You could also get away with not even linking the 'temp' database, by just writing you're queries to use tables in another db (part of the FROM statement). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:06 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed May 19 17:27:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:27:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> OK. I solved it but it's a kludge and I don't like it. Turns out that the problem was not mm/dd/yy vs. dd/mm/yy. It was either of those vs. yyyy-mm-dd, which is the same in either UK or American English setting. In Taiwan they use the American date format but this particular machine's short date format was set to yyyy-mm-dd. So. I changed 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") Then gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) to 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy; check that date format is not yyyymmdd If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") And Val(DatePart("yyyy", Date)) <> Val(Left(Date, 4)) Then gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) and it works. But it doesn't seem clean. Getting the short date format via API, I suppose, would be better. Same result but better because I anticipate that there will be sometime a fourth date format. Thanks to all for help, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky > > If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that > and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little > puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can > convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). > > /gustav > > > > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having > > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in > > the system format. > > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Dear List: > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > but can't seem to find what I want. > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > > cases as I find more short date formats. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed May 19 17:30:01 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:30:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D44F@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> So, you're saying that when I import 10 megs and purge it and then import another 10 megs the result is as if I had imported 20 megs? Yikes! That would certainly explain things. I suspected that the temp tables were the culprit and was considering something like the approach you suggest. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Well, from what you describe, your main bloat factor are those temp tables. When you delete data within a database, the space is not reused. So if you import 10 megs, then work with it, then delete it, and import another 10 megs, the first 10 megs is still there. Another issue of bloat is modifying data. It can have a similar affect to deleting data, but probably not as bad. The first thing I would look into doing, to make an immediate change to the size increase, is to not put the temp tables in the 'live' database. Instead, put the temp table in a blank .mdb. You can link the temp table to the blank db, and then when you're done with the data in that table, delete the .mdb, and copy a 'new' blank version into it's place. If the 'live' db isn't using it, it should care if the 'temp' database is replaced. You could also get away with not even linking the 'temp' database, by just writing you're queries to use tables in another db (part of the FROM statement). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:06 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed May 19 17:32:55 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:32:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D454@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Thanks, William I'm actually using the A2K file format in AXP, so the AXP bug isn't an issue here. I will take your advice and move the temp tables to a separate BE, though. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat ...a couple of notes on AXP bloat ...there is a bug in the AXP file format that just bloats a db and compact repair doesn't fix it ...you either work with the A2K file format or you routinely create a new AXP db and import the old code into it ...a royal pita if there ever was one :( ...I do virtually the same thing you describe ...my approach has been to use a separate mdb to do all the importing and data manipulation and only then to update the main db with the extracted data ...then I clear every table in the import mdb and compact it before putting it back into wait state for another import ...this works pretty well for me using A2K formatted mdbs in AXP. ...hth William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat > Hello, All > > I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the > appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are > detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - > either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type > of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp > table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and > appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table > is then purged and the cycle is repeated. > > It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock > capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to > run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by > this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and > its size came down to about 55 meg. > > I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm > interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which > ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it > via automation once it appears in my db. > > Running Access XP on Win2k. > > Thanks! > > Don McGillivray > Sprint Mailing Services > Rancho Cordova, CA > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed May 19 17:54:12 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:54:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c43df4$34466640$8500a8c0@CX615377a> You use ADO and a connection string something like: oConn.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ "Data Source=c:\somepath\myDb.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & _ "Password=" Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ASP to mdb Hello All, What methods can you use to connect to an A2K mdb with ASP? Rumor is that I have to use an ODBC connection.. Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeR Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 19 19:00:01 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:00:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: Unless I completely misunderstood the original question, Brett, it was about VB style menus *on* forms, not menubars. And Access 2 was the LAST version that needed macros to create menus. After that VBA handled it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Bwaaa?! Access has had this built-in this functionality since the very early days (A2 at least). Unfortunately you need to use macros to do it. Do a search AddMenu in online Help, and it should point you in the right direction. Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 19:11:22 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:11:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Close Switchboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AC844A.16840.50EF1D@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 13:00, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > Maybe I wasn't clear enough:( Or else I am completely missing the > point:((((( This is not a regular form. It is an Access generated > switchboard. Using the Switchboard Manager, the options for a button are > finite...Open Form, Open Report, etc. I'm assuming I need to use the > RunCode option in some manner... > > > As suggested, use the Docmd.Close - but if the code is not in the form module, you need to specify what to close: DoCmd.Close acForm, "Switchboard" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 19 19:47:33 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:47:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40AC8CC5.17394.720C2A@localhost> On 19 May 2004 at 21:26, Chris Swann wrote: > > However, as the data is run against other areas, there are gaps in the data > so I cannot use the whole crosstab export approach. I will never know which > items may be present as the data changes on a weekly basis. > > Is there any way to make the crosstab output all values even if there is no > data to return ? So the third example above would look like this > > Area2 type1a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > Area2 type1b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > Area2 type2a data data data data <<<< only data available > Area2 type2b data data data data <<<< only data available > Area2 type3a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > Area2 type3b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > You need a couple of tables which contain lists of all Areas and all Types. You use this to build a list of all the possible Area/Type combinations and left join your data to this "superlist", Something like: SELECT AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType, Sum(tValues.data1) AS SumOfdata1, Sum(tValues.data2) AS SumOfdata2, Sum(tValues.data3) AS SumOfdata3, Sum(tValues.data4) AS SumOfdata4 FROM (SELECT tAreas.AreaName, tTypes.RecordType FROM tAreas, tTypes) as AreaTypes LEFT JOIN tValues ON (AreaTypes.RecordType = tValues.RecordType) AND (AreaTypes.AreaName = tValues.Location) GROUP BY AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 20:04:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:04:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <006f01c43db2$cac4e1b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate any date. if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... Just pick your required result format. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Dear List: I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the expiration date which I compare to the system date. So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't seem to find what I want. Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as I find more short date formats. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed May 19 23:52:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:52:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Message-ID: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 20 00:18:15 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:18:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Hi Darren: Just ran your piece of code (cut and paste), on my version of Win98 SR2, Access2K and it work just fine (...ran it in immediate mode and the following was the result 'C:\APPL\FigaroProducts\Skins\\'). So there must be something else that is causing your problem. Maybe your versions of Access have to patched/updated or maybe it is something you have in the string 'strSelectedSkin' (mine was of course empty).(?) It also works with Access2002 and 2003 on the same machine. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:52 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 02:15:22 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:15:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000001c43e3a$371fe940$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hi Darren Sounds to me like a references issue. The failure of Left() and Len() functions is a classic symptom of References. Check for missing refs - if none, try unticking, saving, reticking and saving. I feel sure the problem's in there somewhere. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 20 May 2004 05:52 > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine > > > Hello all > I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win > XP or Win 2000 boxes the > following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and > WIN2000 and > WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 > In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office > 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on > the Win 98 machines > > Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in > WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, > Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & > "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" > > But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place > of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = > "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" > > Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the > Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS > > Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a > search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the > footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and > .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. > But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app > and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone > have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN > 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be > fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 20 07:02:18 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:02:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should re-sub? >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> Hi John, It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 07:04:57 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:04:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Darren, What you describe is most likely a problem with references and/or the environment on those specific machines. Open a module in design view, click tools/references, and see if any are MISSING or BROKEN. If so you'll need to figure out how and why. If not, check any unchecked reference. Close the MDB and Access, then reopen and uncheck the reference you just checked. Then do a compile. Should get no errors. Now see if the code works as it should. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:52 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 07:11:13 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:11:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine In-Reply-To: <014f01c43e26$31e46eb0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Darren, I didn't read far enough down in your original post. I'd still double check the reference stuff, but I don't think that will be the problem from the sound of what you said. Instead, look more towards the Access install itself. Make sure your up to date on service packs; Office, JET, and MDAC. Also do a quick check for disk errors and sufficient disk space. There is nothing really in Access per say that is OS specific. Code that runs under one should run under another. Problems under one OS and not another is some type of an environment problem either in .DLLs installed or registry entries. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:52 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Code Failures on Win 98 Machine Hello all I have 2 issues still outstanding with my latest app. On win XP or Win 2000 boxes the following code snips work fine. All machines are WIN 98 and WIN2000 and WIN XP boxes (No Win 95 or Win ME) all running Office 2000 In fact the Office 2000 install is off the same MS Office 2000 install disk - But the code snips fails only on the Win 98 machines Anyway here is the snip that fails in WIN 98 - but is cool in WIN2000 and WINXP strSkinsPath = Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name)) - 1) & "\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" But of course the "hard coded" following snip below in place of the one above does work on all OS's strSkinsPath = "C:\Program Files\TruMan\Skins\" & strSelectedSkin & "\" Also I am getting failures with the bookmark property in the Win 98 boxes. Same Access/Office version just different OS Basically I have a combo box on a student form to use for a search tool. You pick a student name from the combo on the footer of the Student Form Then using .findfirst and .bookmark I can (normally) go to the record. But it fails on the Win98 boxes and throws me out of the app and on occasion needs a re-boot. So to that end - does anyone have any .findfirst and .bookmark code that works with a WIN 98 box? Even code to determine .AbsolutePosition would be fine. I can then use docmd.gotorecord stuff Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 20 07:14:08 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:14:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect References: Message-ID: <000d01c43e63$f393ca50$9111758f@aine> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu May 20 07:24:05 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:24:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3088A3F6@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB53B@ADGSERVER> That's odd. I subbed to the OT list yesterday afternoon and I had 17 messages in my inbox this morning. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should re-sub? >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> Hi John, It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how long before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 20 04:24:14 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:24:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) Message-ID: <28928889.1085045054572.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that?s as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I?m doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven?t a clue what this could be ..I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 07:38:32 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 05:38:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: Message-ID: <003501c43e67$5ce19de0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: Because it's too simple and too obvious? :) I'll test that out. Thanks. BTW, in response to my own request to change the captions on the command buttons on message boxes - which apparently cannot be done - I just got a screen shot of a Yes/No message box from Taiwan, and the Chinese character is displayed on the command button followed by Y ( or N in parens and underscored. I'd like to see the keyboard they're using to enter these pictograms. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 20 07:43:28 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:43:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Thu May 20 07:51:12 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:51:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BE0@mail2.wrsystems.com> Just a quick reply, I've received good help from here. http://asp-help.com/ -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 20 08:16:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:16:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in 9 simple steps. Message-ID: Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Thu May 20 08:13:55 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:13:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Message-ID: Came to the office with 36 emails on the OT list. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Thu May 20 08:47:35 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:47:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3088A441@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB53C@ADGSERVER> But I came in at 7 EDT - LOL. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect Came to the office with 36 emails on the OT list. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu May 20 09:51:27 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:51:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, That's too bad! You got a very warm welcome over on the Visio list. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect I'm still not getting any from either list (OT or Visio). I've got to see if I can find out where it is going--maybe it is getting lost on my system. John >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 5/20/2004 8:14:08 AM >>> nope your subbed. Just sent one myself. List is unusually silent for some reason martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Clark" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > Quiet is one thing, but I can't believe that there were no Emails > waiting this morning. I must have done something wrong. If any > moderators read this, can you tell if I am subbed, or maybe I should > re-sub? > > >>> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us 5/19/2004 2:11:31 PM >>> > Hi John, > It's been unusually quite on the OT list since yesterday afternoon, I > think everyone was tired from the firestorm that preceded it. > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:56 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > > I used to be a member of OT, and I just decided today that I want to > try > it out again. I signed up a little bit ago and I was wondering how > long > before I can read and post. I also signed up for the visio list. > > John W Clark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Thu May 20 09:51:53 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:51:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BE3@mail2.wrsystems.com> I'm not sure what this line does, . When I use the include statement, I use it with a file and the path to that file. For instance, -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 20 10:11:02 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:11:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: For my departmental website I used "includes" to build the frame around my content area. A corporate top banner area, my top banner area, right-side column, bottom banner area, and left side menu column. They are all separate .htm or .stm files. I can send you an example if you like. ____________ ____________ ____________ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------ ____________ Mark -----Original Message----- From: ranthony at wrsystems.com [mailto:ranthony at wrsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:52 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) I'm not sure what this line does, . When I use the include statement, I use it with a file and the path to that file. For instance, -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 10:23:10 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: Message-ID: <01e201c43e7e$5c7cf130$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu May 20 10:32:57 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect - Question Message-ID: Since the AccessD and OT originate from the same place, and I am receiving my AccessD mail, then my OT or Visio would probably not be being blocked, correct? The only thing I can think of at my end is our spamming software, which is relatively new. But, like I said, the AccessD gets through. Our Email admin said that if I give her an address, she can put in an excception, but if I am not mistaken, it is the same address as AccessD. I guess I don't really NEED to be a member of these lists, so I'll give it today and then I'll just unsub instead of bothering y'all. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 10:38:45 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:38:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect -Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c43e80$894ce330$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> John Don't unsub yet. I'm sure Bryan, our list master, will check if you're subbed ok, but he's a lot on his plate and hasn't been around today. Give him chance to see. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: 20 May 2004 16:33 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect > -Question > > > Since the AccessD and OT originate from the same place, and I > am receiving my AccessD mail, then my OT or Visio would > probably not be being blocked, correct? > > The only thing I can think of at my end is our spamming > software, which is relatively new. But, like I said, the > AccessD gets through. Our Email admin said that if I give her > an address, she can put in an excception, but if I am not > mistaken, it is the same address as AccessD. > > I guess I don't really NEED to be a member of these lists, so > I'll give it today and then I'll just unsub instead of > bothering y'all. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 10:39:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:39:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFA@main2.marlow.com> Yep, Access will not 'reuse' space until it is compacted. So if you are using a massive amount of temp tables, that is going to bloat your database really fast. a temp table consisting of a few k just won't be as noticable, unless done continuously around the clock. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat So, you're saying that when I import 10 megs and purge it and then import another 10 megs the result is as if I had imported 20 megs? Yikes! That would certainly explain things. I suspected that the temp tables were the culprit and was considering something like the approach you suggest. Thanks! Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Well, from what you describe, your main bloat factor are those temp tables. When you delete data within a database, the space is not reused. So if you import 10 megs, then work with it, then delete it, and import another 10 megs, the first 10 megs is still there. Another issue of bloat is modifying data. It can have a similar affect to deleting data, but probably not as bad. The first thing I would look into doing, to make an immediate change to the size increase, is to not put the temp tables in the 'live' database. Instead, put the temp table in a blank .mdb. You can link the temp table to the blank db, and then when you're done with the data in that table, delete the .mdb, and copy a 'new' blank version into it's place. If the 'live' db isn't using it, it should care if the 'temp' database is replaced. You could also get away with not even linking the 'temp' database, by just writing you're queries to use tables in another db (part of the FROM statement). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:06 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Managing DB Bloat Hello, All I'm working on a system that monitors a set of folders for the appearance of text files matching specified profiles. When files are detected, they are moved via FTP to the db's environment and ingested - either the entire file or just the first record, depending on the type of file - into a temp table in the db. Once the data is in the temp table, it is processed by performing a variety of summary queries and appending the results to a series of permanent tables. The temp table is then purged and the cycle is repeated. It had been my intention to leave this db running round the clock capturing and summarizing data, but I was alarmed after allowing it to run all night to find that the db had bloated to about a gigabyte by this morning. After halting the capture process, I compacted the db and its size came down to about 55 meg. I'm not real hip to all the factors that contribute to bloat, so I'm interested to learn which practices exacerbate the problem and which ones mitigate it. I'd also be interested in techniques to get rid of it via automation once it appears in my db. Running Access XP on Win2k. Thanks! Don McGillivray Sprint Mailing Services Rancho Cordova, CA -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Thu May 20 10:46:37 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:46:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect - Question Message-ID: John, The OT address on the OT mail I receive is: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com' I am getting OT mail, so maybe it is something your e-mail admin can resolve.... HTH, Steve -----John Clark's Original Message----- Since the AccessD and OT originate from the same place, and I am receiving my AccessD mail, then my OT or Visio would probably not be being blocked, correct? The only thing I can think of at my end is our spamming software, which is relatively new. But, like I said, the AccessD gets through. Our Email admin said that if I give her an address, she can put in an excception, but if I am not mistaken, it is the same address as AccessD. I guess I don't really NEED to be a member of these lists, so I'll give it today and then I'll just unsub instead of bothering y'all. -- From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 10:49:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:49:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFB@main2.marlow.com> Paul, I replied to a similar email you sent on Friday. You are trying to do client side effects with ASP. So I am not cluttering the list, look back through the subject 'RE: [AccessD] OT-ASP OnChange To Call A Function' for my reply, if you can't find it, let me know, and I'll send it off list again. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:24 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) To all, Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one ?. Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the following ASP code: <%@ Language="VBScript" %> <% Option Explicit %> <% Sub OfficeSelected() strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text response.write strOffice End Sub %> <% Dim dbConn Dim rsCheck Dim rsOffice Dim strSQLAccess Dim strSQLOffice Dim strChkUser Dim strChkPass Dim strUser Dim strOffice Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" dbConn.Open strChkUser=request.form("Username") strChkPass=request.form("Password") strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & strChkPass & "'" Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) %> <% if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then %>

Username and/or Password Not Recognised

<% Else strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM tblOffices" Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then rsOffice.MoveFirst response.write "

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting System " & strUser & "

" response.write "
" response.write "Please Select An Office:" %> Choose.... <% Do Until rsOffice.EOF=True %> <% =rsOffice.Fields("OfficeName").Value %> <% rsOffice.MoveNext Loop %> <% response.write "
" response.write request.form("ddOffices") rsOffice.Close Set rsOffice=Nothing End If End If %> <% rsCheck.Close Set rsCheck=Nothing dbConn.Close Set dbConn=Nothing %> I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that the user selected underneath the dropdown box. Thanks in advance. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 10:53:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to the format that you want, right? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 11:18:09 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:18:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another problem. So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're trying to lead me? Like: DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) ? Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > the format that you want, right? > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > matter > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > translate > > any date. > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the > US > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > can't > > seem to find what I want. > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases > as > > I find more short date formats. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 20 11:24:47 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:24:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40ACDBCF.2030506@verizon.net> I use blat to attach objects to email, I even put up a small sample database w/ the complete syntax you would use in your program. Of course part of this requires the SMTP server ip along w/ a valid UserID and Password. http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='blat.adp' hope it helps. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/18/2004 8:44 AM: >Dear List: > >I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > >But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? > >MTIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 20 11:32:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:32:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFE@main2.marlow.com> You're getting close. However, you only need to use DateSerial on YOUR date. Because Date Serial returns a Date variable. Actual Date variables are immune to 'date formats'. So, you would do: If DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < Date() Then 'Expired End if Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Drew: The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another problem. So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're trying to lead me? Like: DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) ? Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > the format that you want, right? > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > matter > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > translate > > any date. > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the > US > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > can't > > seem to find what I want. > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases > as > > I find more short date formats. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu May 20 11:37:09 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:37:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40ACDBCF.2030506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Francisco: Since I don't know where this program is going to end up (we're doing a lot of remote betas with it) I (and probably the users, who won't be tech savvy) won't know their server ip, User ID, and password. Did you see in the thread where I got the problem worked out with Stuart McLachlan's MAPISend? T&R, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco H Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > I use blat to attach objects to email, I even put up a small sample > database w/ the complete syntax you would use in your program. Of > course part of this requires the SMTP server ip along w/ a valid UserID > and Password. > > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='blat.adp' > > hope it helps. > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/18/2004 8:44 AM: > > >Dear List: > > > >I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > > >But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? > > > >MTIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu May 20 12:34:31 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:34:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9A5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> No it's menus at the Access window level. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form Menus or menus on forms? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form I wrote a fairly easy to series of class modules that let you create menus dynamically. Drop me a line off-list and I'll send you a demo if you like (jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org). Off-line requests only please. Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form You wouldn't happen to know of any 3rd party controls would you ? Message date : May 19 2004, 04:50 PM >From : "Charlotte Foust" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Menu On A Form No. Menubars/toolbars are objects independent of Access forms. You would have to fake them with third party controls. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:15 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Menu On A Form To all, Gone totally brain dead here and it's not even Friday. Is there a way to put a menu on a form in Access, In VB6 when you create a form you can put a menu on using the Menu Editor is there a similar way you can do this in access ? Thanks in advance for any help Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 20 13:28:39 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:28:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Reports References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the last page. Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before the form loads?? Comments?? Martin From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 13:56:37 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:56:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dc8 at btinternet.com Thu May 20 13:56:58 2004 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:56:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab In-Reply-To: <40AC8CC5.17394.720C2A@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Thanks for the pointer. I'll have a play and see where I end up ;-) Chris S > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: 20 May 2004 01:48 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Return all values from crosstab > > > On 19 May 2004 at 21:26, Chris Swann wrote: > > > > > However, as the data is run against other areas, there are gaps > in the data > > so I cannot use the whole crosstab export approach. I will > never know which > > items may be present as the data changes on a weekly basis. > > > > > Is there any way to make the crosstab output all values even if > there is no > > data to return ? So the third example above would look like this > > > > Area2 type1a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > Area2 type1b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > Area2 type2a data data data data <<<< only data available > > Area2 type2b data data data data <<<< only data available > > Area2 type3a data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > Area2 type3b data data data data <<<< forced to return this line > > > > You need a couple of tables which contain lists of all Areas and all > Types. You use this to build a list of all the possible Area/Type > combinations and left join your data to this "superlist", > > Something like: > > SELECT AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType, Sum(tValues.data1) > AS SumOfdata1, Sum(tValues.data2) AS SumOfdata2, Sum(tValues.data3) > AS SumOfdata3, Sum(tValues.data4) AS SumOfdata4 > FROM > (SELECT tAreas.AreaName, tTypes.RecordType FROM tAreas, tTypes) as > AreaTypes > LEFT JOIN tValues ON (AreaTypes.RecordType = tValues.RecordType) AND > (AreaTypes.AreaName = tValues.Location) > GROUP BY AreaTypes.AreaName, AreaTypes.RecordType > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 20 13:59:34 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:59:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports In-Reply-To: <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAEFC@main2.marlow.com> <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40AD0016.9080503@verizon.net> The time it takes to move from page to page depends in a large part on what you're doing in your report. Somethings I've learned are easier/faster to make TSQL and Queries do instead of the report, counts for instance and totals. For some reason the code that Access uses to come up with these figures are extremly sloooow -- -Francisco Martin Reid wrote On 5/20/2004 11:28 AM: >What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a >report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? > >Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored >procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the >last page. > >Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better >to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before >the form loads?? > > > >Comments?? > > >Martin > > > From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 20 14:06:25 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:06:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Message-ID: Does this method involve adding a field to the record? If so, I've done that before. I just wanted something quick and dirty. But hey, send it to me anyway. Maybe your method is better than mine. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu May 20 14:17:02 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT : How long for lists to take effect -Question Message-ID: Actually Bryan has posted on OPS-Mod that John IS NOT subbed to OT. So you may want to try to sub there again John. Something didn't take the first time. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >>>>>John - Don't unsub yet. I'm sure Bryan, our list master, will check if >>>>>you're >subbed ok, but he's a lot on his plate and hasn't been around today. Give >him chance to see. -- Andy Lacey<<<<<< From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu May 20 14:17:40 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form -in9simple steps. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, <> You can, but I avoid that approach as it doesn't work then in a multi-user setting. The basic setup is that you use an OLE bound control behind the other controls. I usually setup the source for that as a bitmap field with images that are 16 x 16 pixels and stretched in the control. The images are kept in a color table, so a linking table is required (PK from main table and Color ID to display). I've also heard of folks that load the bitmaps into a variable at startup, and set the control source to a function that returns the bitmap, but I've never needed that kind of speed. I've found this approach to be a bit more flexible then the others, but I don't think I would say that its "better" then others. Just a different way of doing things. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form -in9simple steps. Does this method involve adding a field to the record? If so, I've done that before. I just wanted something quick and dirty. But hey, send it to me anyway. Maybe your method is better than mine. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 20 14:40:57 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:40:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form-in9simple steps. Message-ID: It's the same method I've used before. It's been so long since I've used it. I knew that I wanted something less intensive than that. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form-in9simple steps. Scott, <> You can, but I avoid that approach as it doesn't work then in a multi-user setting. The basic setup is that you use an OLE bound control behind the other controls. I usually setup the source for that as a bitmap field with images that are 16 x 16 pixels and stretched in the control. The images are kept in a color table, so a linking table is required (PK from main table and Color ID to display). I've also heard of folks that load the bitmaps into a variable at startup, and set the control source to a function that returns the bitmap, but I've never needed that kind of speed. I've found this approach to be a bit more flexible then the others, but I don't think I would say that its "better" then others. Just a different way of doing things. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form -in9simple steps. Does this method involve adding a field to the record? If so, I've done that before. I just wanted something quick and dirty. But hey, send it to me anyway. Maybe your method is better than mine. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9simple steps. Scott, Well now that you've finished all that, I have a sample MDB which has a slightly different method of coloring rows (or individual controls if you want), which is slightly more flexible. Your not stuck with just colors either, but can display graphics as well. Also, since it's not based on using Format or the terminal font, you can do anything you want for fonts. If you'd like to see it drop me an e-mail *off* list. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in9 simple steps. Thanks to all those who helped me figure this out(you know who you are). I can now highlight individual fields, that have the focus, on a continuous form. It required the following (clean up tweaks not included): 1) set the Back Style of each highlighted field to "Transparent". (I didn't do this because I'm only highlighting check boxes). 2) create form level public global Boolean variables for each highlighted field 3) create an unbound textbox to hold the current value of the key for the selected record 4) create an unbound textbox behind each field to show the highlighting 5) set the Font of the unbound highlighting textbox to "Terminal" 6) set the Fore Color of the unbound highlighting textbox to the color you want for highlighting 7) set the Control Source for each highlighting textbox to the following (replacing field, form and control names with the appropriate values): "=IIf([key_field]=[Forms]![frmYour_Form_Name]![txtUnbound_Textbox] And [bolBooleanVariable]=True,"??????????????????",Null)" 8) add 2 lines of code per field in the Got Focus and Lost Focus events a) in the Got Focus event, set the Boolean variable to true b) in the Lost Focus event, set the Boolean variable to false c) in both events, requery the highlight textbox for the given control 9) add 1 line of code to set the unbound textbox to the key of the current record in the Forms Current event ******************** Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please keep the following in mind: 1) This is just a quick synopsis of what I did. 2) The highlighting on my form actually takes place on a sub form. 3) The unbound textbox that holds the key field value is on the parent form. 4) I developed this to highlight checkboxes and have not tested it with other controls. It should still work the same. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 20 14:49:34 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:49:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Electronic Invoice Tool according to EC directive 2001/115/EG References: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD8EB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <40AD0BCE.4030303@shaw.ca> There are two ways toeasily do this, via EDI or signed certificate servers. Some companies like xicrypt in Europe do this in a more generalized way and sign all email via mime and certificates Which way do you want to go? Can your customer afford his own certificate server? Just remember EC invoices must be saved for 7 years and certificates like RSA or Verisign expire usually within 3 years. The Directive also specifies information that must be included on each paper and electronic invoice. This can be summarised as follows: - The date the invoice is issued - A unique sequential number to identify the invoice - The VAT identification number of the supplier (and in case the customer is liable to pay VAT, the VAT identification number of the customer) - The full name and address of the taxable person and customer - The quantity and nature of goods supplied or the extent and nature of the services rendered - The date the goods or services were supplied or a payment in advance is made - The net amount subject to VAT - The VAT rate applied - The amount of VAT payable, if any - Identification of exempt supplies or supplies where the customer pays the tax. - Identification of supplies of new means of transport and special arrangements for travel agents and second hand goods under the margin regime. - Identification of the use of tax representatives Erwin Craps - IT Helps wrote: >Hi > >A customer asks me to generate electronic invoices from an invoicing app >I wrote several years ago. >As you know Electronic Invoices in an EC country need to be according >the EC directive 2001/115/EG. >To keep a long story short, this means that a invoice needs to be >authenticated AND content verification before sending. >The format is of no importance but it has to be a common format. > >So I wonder if there exist already tools for Access/VBA to do this. Can >Acrobat do this? > >Greetz > > > > >Erwin Craps > >Zaakvoerder > >www.ithelps.be/jonathan > > > >This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the >intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or >reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal >offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to >the sender. > >IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg > >www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be > * www.stadleuven.be > > >IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven > >IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: >Info at ithelps.be > >Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: >Staff at boxoffice.be > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 20 15:04:48 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:04:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40ACDBCF.2030506@verizon.net> <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AD0F60.2070209@verizon.net> yup, but unfortunately that's not a complete answer. I've used different variation of the same code and while it works for some users, it does not work for all. that's just my personal observation tho... ymmv Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/20/2004 9:37 AM: >Francisco: > >Since I don't know where this program is going to end up (we're doing a lot >of remote betas with it) I (and probably the users, who won't be tech >savvy) won't know their server ip, User ID, and password. > >Did you see in the thread where I got the problem worked out with Stuart >McLachlan's MAPISend? > >T&R, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Francisco H Tapia" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:24 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email > > > > >>I use blat to attach objects to email, I even put up a small sample >>database w/ the complete syntax you would use in your program. Of >>course part of this requires the SMTP server ip along w/ a valid UserID >>and Password. >> >>http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='blat.adp' >> >>hope it helps. >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote On 5/18/2004 8:44 AM: >> >> >> >>>Dear List: >>> >>>I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them >>> >>> >to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like >it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. > > >>>But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by >>> >>> >DoCmd.SendObject? > > >>>MTIA >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>-Francisco >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- -Francisco From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 15:26:51 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:26:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in a continuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c43ea8$c88e8df0$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Hello I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time waster... If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) Sorry if this isn't relevant Mark From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 15:40:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:40:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <001f01c43ea8$c88e8df0$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <000101c43eaa$c0413d80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Mark It was the continuous forms bit you missed. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hello > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a > time waster... > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour > and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms > background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > Mark > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 15:45:17 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:45:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <000101c43eaa$c0413d80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002601c43eab$5bf88580$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Hi Andy It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? Mark It was the continuous forms bit you missed. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hello > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a > time waster... > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour > and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms > background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > Mark > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 15:47:58 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:47:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <000101c43eaa$c0413d80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002701c43eab$bc9d1f40$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Forgot to say... I'm using AXP, haven't tried any earlier versions Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? Mark It was the continuous forms bit you missed. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hello > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a > time waster... > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then just set the back colour to the highlight colour > and make the back style transparent. As long as the forms > background is a different colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > Mark > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 20 15:55:49 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:55:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete no vice) References: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128BE3@mail2.wrsystems.com> Message-ID: <40AD1B55.5090604@shaw.ca> A good help mailist or blogs at communities http://www.aspadvice.com If you have ASP on your machine, you have the adovbs.inc file somewhere on your machine. Do a search for it. adovbs.inc is a text file containing ASP scripting that provides constant string values for a whole slew of ADO properties. For example, if you don't use ADO, you can open a fully-navigable RecordSet by specifying the CursorType property thusly: RecordSetName.CursorType = 3 If using adovbs.inc, you can use: RecordSetName.CursorType = adOpenStatic --- You can store adovbs.inc anywhere. I use similar includes in an /includes/ folder off the root: /includes/ Then reference it this way: or directly off your root include the following To really speed things up you can put the following inside the file global.asa: and avoid putting all this 10 K script from adovbs.inc in every page. You will need access to IIS to do this ranthony at wrsystems.com wrote: >I'm not sure what this line does, . >When I use the include statement, I use it with a file and the path to that >file. For instance, > > >-----Original Message----- >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:24 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT-Can anyone help me with ASP problem (complete novice) > >To all, > >Firstly can anyone suggest a good asp list that's as excellent as this one >?. > >Secondly is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong in the >following ASP code: > ><%@ Language="VBScript" %> ><% Option Explicit %> > > ><% > Sub OfficeSelected() > >strOffice=ddOffices.Options(ddOffices.SelectedIndex).Text > response.write strOffice > End Sub >%> > ><% > Dim dbConn > Dim rsCheck > Dim rsOffice > Dim strSQLAccess > Dim strSQLOffice > Dim strChkUser > Dim strChkPass > Dim strUser > Dim strOffice > > Set dbConn=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection") > Set rsOffice=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") > Set rsCheck=Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset") > > dbConn.ConnectionString=Server.MapPath("Genesis.mdb") > dbConn.Provider="Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" > dbConn.Open > > strChkUser=request.form("Username") > strChkPass=request.form("Password") > strUser=UCase(Left(strChkUser,1)) & >LCase(Mid(strChkUser,2,(InStr(strChkUser,".")-1))) > > strSQLAccess="SELECT Username, Password FROM tblUsers WHERE >EnableUser=True AND Username='" & strChkUser & "' AND Password='" & >strChkPass & "'" > > Set rsCheck=dbConn.Execute(strSQLAccess) > > %> > > <% > > if ( rsCheck.EOF ) Then > %> >

color="Black">
Username and/or Password Not >Recognised

> <% > Else > strSQLOffice="SELECT OfficeName FROM >tblOffices" > > Set rsOffice=dbConn.Execute(strSQLOffice) > > If ( rsOffice.EOF=False ) Then > rsOffice.MoveFirst > response.write >"

Welcome To The Orridge Internet Reporting >System " & strUser & "

" > response.write "
WIDTH='100%'>" > response.write "color='White'>Please Select An Office:" > > %> > > <% > > response.write "
WIDTH='100%'>" > > response.write >request.form("ddOffices") > > rsOffice.Close > Set rsOffice=Nothing > End If > End If > %> > > <% > > rsCheck.Close > Set rsCheck=Nothing > dbConn.Close > Set dbConn=Nothing >%> > >I get and Error for Line 3 saying Object Expected, but haven't a clue what >this could be.....I hope someone can point me in the right direction. >Basically when a user selects an option from the dropdown box I want to jump >to the function at the top of the page and then just print the office that >the user selected underneath the dropdown box. > >Thanks in advance. > >Paul Hartland > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 20 16:11:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:11:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports Message-ID: Martin, Go out for coffee! The rest of the data is still loading and remember that a page formats at least twice when it previews. Access has to process everything to get to that last page, and it is SLOOOOW. You would be better off using either a temp table in SQL Server or a temp table in Access, but the SQL Server table will be the fastest, since the processing on the server side doesn't involve Jet. I've built these monsters in Access when SQL Server wasn't an option, but don't expect fast. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reports What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the last page. Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before the form loads?? Comments?? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 20 16:19:29 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:19:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Reports References: Message-ID: <005601c43eb0$2459d610$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Out for coffee, in Belfast at 22.18pm, ha rather fight with this thing! LOL Thanks. Am going to try that approach. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reports > Martin, > > Go out for coffee! The rest of the data is still loading and remember > that a page formats at least twice when it previews. Access has to > process everything to get to that last page, and it is SLOOOOW. You > would be better off using either a temp table in SQL Server or a temp > table in Access, but the SQL Server table will be the fastest, since the > processing on the server side doesn't involve Jet. I've built these > monsters in Access when SQL Server wasn't an option, but don't expect > fast. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Reports > > > What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in > a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? > > Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a > Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to > move to the last page. > > Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be > better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the > hit before the form loads?? > > > > Comments?? > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 20 16:36:13 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:36:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <002601c43eab$5bf88580$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <000001c43eb2$799bf020$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 20 17:17:22 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:17:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40ABF27A.7150.578331C@localhost> References: <40AB88B0.2238.3DAF810@localhost> Message-ID: <40ADBB12.11214.50EE316@localhost> Anyone got any clues on this one: At the suggestion of the guy who's MAPI wrapper I based it on, I tried calling the DLL version of MAPISend for an application compied with PowerBasic. It ran just as fast as the exe version of MAPISend. Calling it from Access, it takes about 30 seconds or more to execute the MAPI call whether the Access app is an mdb or complied to MDE. I then pasted my Access code into a MS Word macro. When called from MS Word, it also only a fraction of a second. Any idea why it takes so long in Access? On 19 May 2004 at 23:49, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > On 19 May 2004 at 16:17, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > On 19 May 2004 at 1:34, John W. Colby wrote: > > > > > I'd take that dll! any docs 4 the call syntax? > > > > > > > Working on a couple of other things at the moment. Give me 'til > > tomorrow morning (PNG time that is) > > > > It may take a bit longer than I thought to convert MAPISend to a DLL. > > Calling MAPISend .exe, it pokes everything into the mail client in > about half a second. > > Calling exactly the same thing as a DLL, it takes nearly a minute. I > can watch the Addresses, Subject, Body and Attachment info being > inserted into a new message with an interval of 10 seconds or so > between each field. (At the same time, the Access app that I am > calling the DLL from is showing 99% CPU usage in the task manager) > > Damned if I can see why. Ultimately, all of the info is gathered and > passed in one structure in a single call to the MapiSendMail function > in MAPI32.DLL. I can't see why it would then take MAPI32.DLL quite a > few seconds to poke each field at the client. Any API gurus got any > ideas? > > > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 17:31:55 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:31:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <000001c43eb2$799bf020$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002801c43eba$41941740$1d8e6351@netboxxp> No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 20 18:00:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:00:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Message-ID: Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't suggest this one because I understood the original question to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just the control with the focus. This method goes back at least to 97, since I used it there. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu May 20 18:23:03 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:23:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <002801c43eba$41941740$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <021a01c43ec1$66cba990$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 18:35:47 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:35:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <021a01c43ec1$66cba990$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <002c01c43ec3$2da32d30$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Hehehe, nice one... Just realised how blinkered I am, despite sitting in front of Access every day developing screens etc. I hadn't noticed the conditional formatting option (maybe coz I never needed it, maybe coz I'm getting on a bit). I must have looked straight at it thousands of times... I need a holiday. Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: 21 May 2004 00:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 20 18:50:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:50:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Message-ID: I've never been very happy with it, so I tend to fall back on other methods. It may work better in XP and 2003, but I haven't bothered to try it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Hehehe, nice one... Just realised how blinkered I am, despite sitting in front of Access every day developing screens etc. I hadn't noticed the conditional formatting option (maybe coz I never needed it, maybe coz I'm getting on a bit). I must have looked straight at it thousands of times... I need a holiday. Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: 21 May 2004 00:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 19:01:01 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:01:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002d01c43ec6$b3ff0d60$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get the highlighted row effect by: a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set the unbound field to the records key fields value c) in the conditional formatting put something like Expression is: [c1]=[c3] where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control in the header (or detail?) d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't suggest this one because I understood the original question to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just the control with the focus. This method goes back at least to 97, since I used it there. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Hi Andy > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > Mark > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hello > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > waster... > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > focus then > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make the back > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > Mark > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Thu May 20 19:05:39 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:05:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c43ec7$59c7d920$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Just tried it and it seems to work ok (using XP). I only did a simple test though, I may give it a go with something more complex tomorrow... I'm off to get some sleep... Night night Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 21 May 2004 00:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? I've never been very happy with it, so I tend to fall back on other methods. It may work better in XP and 2003, but I haven't bothered to try it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? Hehehe, nice one... Just realised how blinkered I am, despite sitting in front of Access every day developing screens etc. I hadn't noticed the conditional formatting option (maybe coz I never needed it, maybe coz I'm getting on a bit). I must have looked straight at it thousands of times... I need a holiday. Cheers Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: 21 May 2004 00:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? I love it!!! Simple, no code, works in A2K. Great color flexibility. Another method for highlighting the current field in A2K and later: Select your form controls. Select Format, Conditional Formatting... in the Condition 1 dropdown, select Field Has Focus, then set your background and font style. This method works in datasheet style forms, too. Sadly, checkboxes can't have conditional formatting. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... Mark PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu May 20 19:11:23 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:11:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <001101c43db4$61cfc330$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <088f01c43ec8$26752810$6601a8c0@rock> Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, datatypes and field descriptions. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement > is the > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be > the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do > though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be > able to help a > little more. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, > column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other > attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want > the results as a table if possible. > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu May 20 19:31:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08B0D37B@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: <089501c43eca$f6b94770$6601a8c0@rock> Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu May 20 21:31:15 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:31:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: It's FUN to be a hero though isn't it Arthur? Evidently the developer was that in title only. You should see the poor database design we see in big deal package business applications from a major database provider who's initials are ORACLE - oops I slipped. Their table designs are embarassing in a lot of cases. A lot of head shaking is required. And the comment, "what were they THINKING?". So good job straightening out that mess. Perhaps you will score some more work out of it? Or at least a good recomendation letter. ;-) Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri May 21 00:58:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:58:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AD0F60.2070209@verizon.net> References: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40AE2725.15819.6B50678@localhost> On 20 May 2004 at 13:04, Francisco H Tapia wrote: > yup, but unfortunately that's not a complete answer. I've used > different variation of the same code and while it works for some users, > it does not work for all. that's just my personal observation tho... ymmv > What code would that be? I don't think you've seen my source. If they are using a MAPI conpliant system, under what situations have you found it not working? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 01:42:05 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:42:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: <002d01c43ec6$b3ff0d60$1d8e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <000801c43efe$bb070030$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 21 02:50:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:50:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error References: Message-ID: <004d01c43f08$58f2c550$9111758f@aine> I am doing an Insert to a linked table and it continually fails with the error. The linked table is in another Access db. Record is deleted. When I run the select it returns the records ok only fails on the INSERT. Even if the INSERT is only trying to add two records it fails. I checked the web etc and found referencees to an old bug in Access 2 whcih was related to this but dont think it applies in this case. Anyone any ideas? Martin From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 04:39:42 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 9:39:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error Message-ID: <20040521083940.A47C3256F22@smtp.nildram.co.uk> I know it's not what the message says, but it couldn't be breaking RI rules could it? i.e. no parent record. If you open the linked MDB can you insert the same record direct? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error Date: 21/05/04 07:53 > > I am doing an Insert to a linked table and it continually fails with the > error. The linked table is in another Access db. > > Record is deleted. > > When I run the select it returns the records ok only fails on the INSERT. > Even if the INSERT is only trying to add two records it fails. > > I checked the web etc and found referencees to an old bug in Access 2 whcih > was related to this but dont think it applies in this case. Anyone any > ideas? > > > Martin > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 05:26:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:26:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <01e201c43e7e$5c7cf130$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Sorry, I am having a problem understanding your problem. I just can not understand why the current date, from host computer can not be processed to meet and be tested against your encrypted date...I am completely missing your point. Please explain more. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not matter > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will translate > any date. > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > MyCutoffDate then... > > Just pick your required result format. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Dear List: > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the US > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key and > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but can't > seem to find what I want. > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do the > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases as > I find more short date formats. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 21 05:43:34 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:43:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4713763951.20040521124334@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Neither can I. Rocky, for your encryption function, all you need is to format the date value as to your liking: strRockyDate = Format(datDate, ) or - vice versa as Drew suggested - to get the date value using DateSerial(). Look up the on-line help for these to end your problems. /gustav > Hi Rocky: > Sorry, I am having a problem understanding your problem. I just can not > understand why the current date, from host computer can not be processed to > meet and be tested against your encrypted date...I am completely missing > your point. > Please explain more. > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Jim: > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 05:46:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:46:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <021401c43e86$0aaff520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously described to match your expiry date.... Dim TheirDate as Date Dim MyExpiryDate as String TheirDate = Date MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... end if HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Drew: The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another problem. So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're trying to lead me? Like: DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) ? Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know the > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > the format that you want, right? > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > matter > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > translate > > any date. > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use the > US > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > and > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting for > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > can't > > seem to find what I want. > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > the > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add cases > as > > I find more short date formats. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 05:56:34 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:56:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports In-Reply-To: <001501c43e98$4612e110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: Check out: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newletters/newsletter112003/0311UnboundRepor ts.htm (watch for wrap) The article desribed a process that handled 500 page reports on a regular bases. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reports What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the last page. Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before the form loads?? Comments?? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri May 21 06:10:13 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:10:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? Message-ID: Andy, You are correct. My original question was centered around Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 06:16:51 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:16:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reports In-Reply-To: <40AD0016.9080503@verizon.net> Message-ID: My understanding is that the aggregate function COUNT is highly optimized so a statement like: Select count(ID) from TheTable Where George > Bill ...should be extremely fast...? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reports The time it takes to move from page to page depends in a large part on what you're doing in your report. Somethings I've learned are easier/faster to make TSQL and Queries do instead of the report, counts for instance and totals. For some reason the code that Access uses to come up with these figures are extremly sloooow -- -Francisco Martin Reid wrote On 5/20/2004 11:28 AM: >What sort of time would I expect when moving from Page 1 to Page 500 in a >report. i.e cliecking to go to the last page?? > >Fairly complex report which is pulling data from SQL Server using a Stored >procedure. Opens in under 2 seconds but still takes forever to move to the >last page. > >Given I need to move very quickly from page 1 to page 500 would it be better >to create an populate a local table with the date and take the hit before >the form loads?? > > > >Comments?? > > >Martin > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 06:26:58 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:26:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <089501c43eca$f6b94770$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 21 06:34:24 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:34:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Report References: Message-ID: <000b01c43f27$915cf7c0$9111758f@aine> Thanks for the infor Jim I forgot about that. But will not work as we are selecting multiple AutoNumber DTs as well as the data and the create table statements fail. WIll have a good read at the article and see if theres any way we can this. Martin From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 21 08:19:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:19:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <18223099435.20040521151910@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky I think you are facing a dead end. Why not use Date to retrieve the system date? /gustav > OK. I solved it but it's a kludge and I don't like it. Turns out that the > problem was not mm/dd/yy vs. dd/mm/yy. It was either of those vs. > yyyy-mm-dd, which is the same in either UK or American English setting. In > Taiwan they use the American date format but this particular machine's short > date format was set to yyyy-mm-dd. > So. > I changed > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") Then > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > to > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy; check that date format is not > yyyymmdd > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") And Val(DatePart("yyyy", > Date)) <> Val(Left(Date, 4)) Then > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > and it works. But it doesn't seem clean. > Getting the short date format via API, I suppose, would be better. Same > result but better because I anticipate that there will be sometime a fourth > date format. > Thanks to all for help, > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again >> Hi Rocky >> >> If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that >> and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little >> puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can >> convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having >> > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in >> > the system format. >> >> > Charlotte Foust >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM >> > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again >> >> >> > Dear List: >> >> > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use >> > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. >> >> > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key >> > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the >> > expiration date which I compare to the system date. >> >> > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting >> > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase >> > but can't seem to find what I want. >> >> > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? >> >> > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do >> > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add >> > cases as I find more short date formats. From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri May 21 08:35:06 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:35:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri May 21 08:54:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:54:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040521135457.LKR17707.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 10:01:11 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:01:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error Message-ID: That suggests either an RI issue or something awry in the way you're doing the insert. Or a permissions issue on the linked datafile. Do you have security on the linked file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Odd Error I am doing an Insert to a linked table and it continually fails with the error. The linked table is in another Access db. Record is deleted. When I run the select it returns the records ok only fails on the INSERT. Even if the INSERT is only trying to add two records it fails. I checked the web etc and found referencees to an old bug in Access 2 whcih was related to this but dont think it applies in this case. Anyone any ideas? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 10:09:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:09:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri May 21 10:12:27 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:12:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: <934745531.20040519174343@cactus.dk> <01bb01c43df0$78cd91c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <18223099435.20040521151910@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <02ac01c43f46$074c7b90$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Oh, I do. To compare to the expiration date. Which is where the problem lies. I have to respond to Jim's email with more elaboration, but I've got a meeting now. More upon return. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky > > I think you are facing a dead end. > Why not use > > Date > > to retrieve the system date? > > /gustav > > > > OK. I solved it but it's a kludge and I don't like it. Turns out that the > > problem was not mm/dd/yy vs. dd/mm/yy. It was either of those vs. > > yyyy-mm-dd, which is the same in either UK or American English setting. In > > Taiwan they use the American date format but this particular machine's short > > date format was set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > So. > > > I changed > > > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy > > > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") Then > > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > > > to > > > 'Flip Dates if regional setting is dd/mm/yy; check that date format is not > > yyyymmdd > > > If DateValue("1/6/04") = DateValue("1 Jun 04") And Val(DatePart("yyyy", > > Date)) <> Val(Left(Date, 4)) Then > > gdatExpirationDate = Mid(gdatExpirationDate, 4, 2) & "/" & > > Left(gdatExpirationDate, 2) _ > > & "/" & Right(gdatExpirationDate, 2) > > > and it works. But it doesn't seem clean. > > > Getting the short date format via API, I suppose, would be better. Same > > result but better because I anticipate that there will be sometime a fourth > > date format. > > > Thanks to all for help, > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:43 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > >> Hi Rocky > >> > >> If you are encoding the date as a date string, you need to decode that > >> and parse it to build the date value; that may involve a little > >> puzzling with Mid() to get strYear, strMonth and strDay which you can > >> convert to Longs and feed to DateSerial(). > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > If they use the US date format, then what do you mean by their having > >> > their machines set to yyy-mm-dd? Cdate(Date) will return a date in > >> > the system format. > >> > >> > Charlotte Foust > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:06 AM > >> > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > >> > >> > >> > Dear List: > >> > >> > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > >> > the US format but they've got their machines set to yyy-mm-dd. > >> > >> > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > >> > and so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > >> > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > >> > >> > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > >> > for short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > >> > but can't seem to find what I want. > >> > >> > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > >> > >> > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > >> > the decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > >> > cases as I find more short date formats. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 11:15:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:15:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09a001c43f4e$d68d7410$6601a8c0@rock> Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 11:17:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:17:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09a101c43f4f$11d4c6e0$6601a8c0@rock> Not a ramble, a nice story. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 11:24:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF09@main2.marlow.com> Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 11:27:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:27:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0A@main2.marlow.com> Oh, and on a similar line, why are people willing to pay gobs of money for garbage that doesn't work, but when presented with actual solutions, they want to pay pennies on the dollar. ARG! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri May 21 11:42:55 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:42:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybe too simple? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004801c43f52$ab2344e0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> The thread is titled "Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in 9 simple steps", so I think we can be forgiven for addressing that issue. Mark's solution works in A97, using 0 coding steps. The real question is why field highlighting, combined with the record selector, is not adequate. Yes, it doesn't highlight check boxes, which is a pity. Yes, you can code around it, but are the gains really worth the cost? We all enjoy the challenge of solving these problems, but maybe in this case it is better to say the no-code solution is good enough. I would prefer the simple but compromised solution over a 'better' one that adds to the code base I have to maintain. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb e too simple? Andy, You are correct. My original question was centered around Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri May 21 11:54:15 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF09@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <004601c43f54$43848ea0$6401a8c0@COA3> Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about table design. Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design right, can you make a decent application" Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Fri May 21 12:11:41 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:11:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 12:17:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 12:36:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:36:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I think that's the whole purpose of a list like this, Mark. Glad it's working. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) I >went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. He >told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and explained >why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about table >design. Until I learned something about relational theory, I never >created any forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the >table design right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, >networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the >field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been >through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to >have an extra hand sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, >in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to >him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to >appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was >director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of >my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their >work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates >degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for >my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered >me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could >only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a >student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, >but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some >'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they >were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which >was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge >and network knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 21 12:41:14 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:41:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC39@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Charlotte, I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, programming and implementing a financial reporting and planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL because the system at the time was wide open, but that is another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) was a crook. Regards, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 12:55:20 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:55:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybetoo simple? In-Reply-To: <004801c43f52$ab2344e0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <000001c43f5c$c8986c30$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Sorry Ken, if you feel I implied that anyone needed "forgiving" for anything. I just wanted to clarify why other solutions than Conditional Formatting had been proffered and discussed. Some people coming late to the discussion may have missed the point. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert > Sent: 21 May 2004 17:43 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: > [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simples > teps.-maybetoo simple? > > > > The thread is titled "Highlight field being edited in a > continuous form - in 9 simple steps", so I think we can be > forgiven for addressing that issue. Mark's solution works in > A97, using 0 coding steps. > > The real question is why field highlighting, combined with > the record selector, is not adequate. Yes, it doesn't > highlight check boxes, which is a pity. Yes, you can code > around it, but are the gains really worth the cost? > > We all enjoy the challenge of solving these problems, but > maybe in this case it is better to say the no-code solution > is good enough. I would prefer the simple but compromised > solution over a 'better' one that adds to the code base I > have to maintain. > > -Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:10 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: > [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simples > teps.-mayb > e too simple? > > > Andy, > > You are correct. My original question was centered around > Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. > > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies, Inc. > marcus at tsstech.com > (513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: > [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simples > teps. -maybe too simple? > > If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 > problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we > have to go all around the houses to achieve this. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. > - maybe too > > simple? > > > > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get the > > highlighted row effect by: > > > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > > the unbound field > > to the records key fields value > > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > > in the header (or detail?) > > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe > too simple? > > > > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in > > a continuous form, all instances don't drop down when you click the > > arrow in the current record. Using the Backcolor and > backstyle method > > works the same way. I didn't suggest this one because I understood > > the original question to ask how to highlight the whole current > > record, not just the control with the focus. This method > goes back at > > least to 97, since I used it there. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a simple form > > and tried it out. Only the field in the current row that > has the focus > > changes colour. I don't recall if this is how previous versions of > > Access behaved, but I do remember several years ago coming > across the > > same problem and, if I remember correctly, a similar > solution to the > > one mentioned earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the > > focus changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row > or column... > > > > Mark > > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across before > > was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. > > The solution looked similar, no idea where I saw it though. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are affected, > > whereas the requirement was to highlight only the current > row. If this > > does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > > > Andy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Andy Lacey > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > > waster... > > > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > > focus then > > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > > the back > > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a > different > > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 13:02:19 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:02:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri May 21 13:03:07 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:03:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC39@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: <000101c43f5d$ded92e20$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> >> a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370 Wow that takes me back. I designed and co-wrote one of those, SomethingOrOtherCalc it was called - originally. (I don't mean that literally I just can't recall - you get the picture.) Was going to make my fortune but unfortunately these things called IBM PC's came along and somewhat destroyed the market. That's why I'm scratching a living with Access. Aah well. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: 21 May 2004 18:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Charlotte, > I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique > experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had > almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a > major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted > MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, > programming and implementing a financial reporting and > planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was > incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at > their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with > requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of > IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about > it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet > program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a > TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL > because the system at the time was wide open, but that is > another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked > with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed > company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a > couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) > was a crook. > > Regards, > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur, > > Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the > major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in > their management structure because these guys must know what > they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who > lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the > fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do > anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. > > Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, > and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the > bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed > as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks > of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling > an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a > "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to > give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! > The guy > *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but > he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client > recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing > same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were > closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into > FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole > thing across the net! > > They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once > I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and > billed for 2 days. > > Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some > incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables > of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > > Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE > which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made > copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup > tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to > (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK > and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and > this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t > sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > > I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before > -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a > matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. > > More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues > of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the > bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation > like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got > high-fives from all directions :) > > This is a strange business :) > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:28:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0D@main2.marlow.com> I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:30:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:30:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0E@main2.marlow.com> Oh so true. My mentor would be Larry Linson then. Quite an inspiration. It felt really odd when he told me that he didn't understand what I was doing anymore (sort of went beyond what he normally does, with code....but a lot of what I learned from him about db design is engrained in me forever). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about table design. Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design right, can you make a decent application" Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:31:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:31:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0F@main2.marlow.com> I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Fri May 21 13:32:53 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:32:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1707336E@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:33:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:33:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF10@main2.marlow.com> Actually, I'm being recruited by ITT.....sort of. It's tempting. It just grates my nerves when I see things being taught incorrectly. I don't care if they are teaching to the LCD, if they want to teach something, do it right, because it is just that much more difficult to tech the right way once someone gets used to bad methods. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 13:37:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:37:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF11@main2.marlow.com> Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW you are preventing the record from being saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 13:50:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:50:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 21 13:53:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:53:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Oh, believe me, I wasn't condemning MBAs in total. My peeve was the sudden idea that no matter how skilled someone was, they could be replaced by a green MBA with no real world experience. I knew quite a few of them recruited to major banks to "fix" things who wound up looking for another job in short order, at company request. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Charlotte, I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, programming and implementing a financial reporting and planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL because the system at the time was wide open, but that is another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) was a crook. Regards, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Fri May 21 14:01:20 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:01:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17073370@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Charlotte: You are not a "doofus" programmer. Also, I suspect that if you were a totally self-employed contractor without a full time job that pays for your health and dental insurance, retirement benefits, and other employee costs; your rate would probably be higher. I certainly didn't mean to imply that any of the folks on this list are "doofus" programmers. Of course, we're all highly talented genuises ... :-))) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 14:37:11 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:37:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <20040521135457.LKR17707.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002801c43f6b$0313db20$020a0a0a@keithhome> Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Fri May 21 14:35:55 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191AC1@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Hi; I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. Numbers with 4 decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in text file as 2.32. I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. Martin From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri May 21 14:51:40 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:51:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <002801c43f6b$0313db20$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: On the 'Other' tab of the properties, select vertical = yes. The drag the box to the appropriate vertical size. One problem is that Access only allows the text to face one direction (you can't control the direction from which the vertical text is read, Access has a default that cannot be changed). Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith > Williamson > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box > > > Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a > report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes > oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone > help? > > Thanks, > > Keith Williamson > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 15:11:31 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:11:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF13@main2.marlow.com> I noticed that too. Since I'm employed full time, I charge less for contract. I consider it a trade off, not on my skills, but on my demand of time. I charge less because it's understood I can only work on things at night, or on the weekend. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 15:27:24 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:27:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't actually >affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 characters in will, >but >not the actual field size definition. However, if you limit a field to 35 >characters, because you think that's all a user will need, and one day they >need to put in 36 characters....NOW you are preventing the record from >being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid > >topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS > >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they > >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them > >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text > >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I > >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 15:31:41 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:31:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri May 21 15:47:31 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:47:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, You need to fill the fields since text fields are stored variable length. Also, for JET 4.0 (A2K and up), the page size was increased to 4096 bytes because of Unicode requiring 2 characters. The error you get is "Record Too Large" Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 15:48:42 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:48:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1707336E@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <09d901c43f75$00c26580$6601a8c0@rock> Well, thanks for all kudos! You've got me blushing now. As to the rates you quoted, I must be living in a previous century. I charge less than the "doofus" developer you mentioned. Hmmm. Were I to go to the rates you suggest, I think I'd be guaranteed unemployable. Maybe in the USA they pay that kind of money. I don't know any programmer in Canada who bills at that rate -- not even the C++ and Oracle virtuosos I know. Maybe I know the wrong people. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 15:56:15 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:56:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <09dc01c43f76$0e8dee90$6601a8c0@rock> Gasp! You're right! On reading your second post, I revisited my table. All I did was insert a few words into each column and it worked. Then I copied exactly 255 characters into the buffer and pasted it into the previously created table, in each sucessive field. I was able to paste 4 copies successfully but the error came up on the 5th. Learn something every day, if you're lucky! Thanks, Jurgen. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 21 16:01:49 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:01:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <09dc01c43f76$0e8dee90$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <004801c43f76$d700c820$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Great to see Jurgens posts. Always give you something to think about. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Gasp! You're right! On reading your second post, I revisited my table. All I did was insert a few words into each column and it worked. Then I copied exactly 255 characters into the buffer and pasted it into the previously created table, in each sucessive field. I was able to paste 4 copies successfully but the error came up on the 5th. Learn something every day, if you're lucky! Thanks, Jurgen. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 16:02:37 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:02:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I'm in an A97 environment today but googled up the following post at a news group: 'I've searched the groups trying to find the definitive answer on how many characters can be stored in a single record of a table in Access 2K. Help says 2000, and this seems to be quoted in the majority of threads I've seen. So I ran a test. I created a new table added 20 or so 250 char fields, and proceeded to fill them with 240character strings, expecting to get bounced on number 9. It eventually gave up after 3956 characters in 17 fields.' The response said something about unicode compression and code pages, but seemed to be a guess. Perhaps you are misunderstanding. You may define a table with 255 text fields of 255 characters in each field without error. Just don't let a user try to fill them up to the size limit with that number of characters because A2K will error. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" > >Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text >(255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some >more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able >to add and edit a row. > >This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k >limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have >been true then too. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character > >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun May 23 16:12:56 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:12:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again References: Message-ID: <040e01c4410a$b867b820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then be > used as a date or string and will still validate and sort correctly. Then > just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric > American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they > may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a > better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date > but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another > problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could > just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial > to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're > trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 16:14:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:14:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09e101c43f78$8f0b14b0$6601a8c0@rock> I just did another experiment. I changed the 20 text fields 255 to memo fields. Call it cheating if you want, but if unlimited text is really the point then I didn't cheat. As expected, I successfully pasted 255 characters into all 20 fields. So, to revisit Drew's point, declare the fields that could possibly be big, big -- but don't declare too many of them. (Personally, I think that any table containing more than about 50 columns is badly conceived, but that's another issue -- and I acknowledge that sometimes you have to go further -- but most of the time it's bad design.) If you need lots of such fields, use memos rather than text fields. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, You need to fill the fields since text fields are stored variable length. Also, for JET 4.0 (A2K and up), the page size was increased to 4096 bytes because of Unicode requiring 2 characters. The error you get is "Record Too Large" Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 16:16:38 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:16:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses In-Reply-To: <004801c43f76$d700c820$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <09e201c43f78$e7552980$6601a8c0@rock> I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may present a list of countries, cities and provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I assemble the address according to a template in the Countries table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common address format places the street number after the street name (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it with a template in the Countries table which looks something like this (for the Netherlands, say): \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ \City\, \Province\ \PostalCode\ \Country\ Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data into the template. I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so I can add new templates for your countries. TIA, Arthur P.S. Anyone with specialized knowledge of city-states such as Singapore is especially invited to contribute! From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 16:33:45 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:33:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c43f7b$4c36bec0$020a0a0a@keithhome> Reuben, My application is on Access 97. There is no vertical option on the 'other' tab. Is there any other way, in Access 97? Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box On the 'Other' tab of the properties, select vertical = yes. The drag the box to the appropriate vertical size. One problem is that Access only allows the text to face one direction (you can't control the direction from which the vertical text is read, Access has a default that cannot be changed). Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith > Williamson > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box > > > Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a > report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes > oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone > help? > > Thanks, > > Keith Williamson > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 21 16:33:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:33:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <002801c43f6b$0313db20$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 16:38:29 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:38:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) In-Reply-To: <040e01c4410a$b867b820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <09e901c43f7b$f4d0abe0$6601a8c0@rock> Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:42:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:42:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF19@main2.marlow.com> I have never had a problem with Access 97 either. Did you fill the fields with 255 characters, or just have the field definition? The limit is based on the page size. A field set to 255 characters with 10 characters in it takes up 11 characters. Same if the limit was set to 10. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:44:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:44:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1C@main2.marlow.com> You get less than that? And in Canadian currency? Double Whammie! LOL. Sorry, couldn't resist elbowing our neighbors to the North, eh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Well, thanks for all kudos! You've got me blushing now. As to the rates you quoted, I must be living in a previous century. I charge less than the "doofus" developer you mentioned. Hmmm. Were I to go to the rates you suggest, I think I'd be guaranteed unemployable. Maybe in the USA they pay that kind of money. I don't know any programmer in Canada who bills at that rate -- not even the C++ and Oracle virtuosos I know. Maybe I know the wrong people. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 16:56:34 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:56:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c43f7e$7bb05780$020a0a0a@keithhome> John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:46:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:46:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1D@main2.marlow.com> Right, but if you NEED 255 characters in all of those fields, then you need to break the table design up. However, if one record needs 255 characters, in one field, then it shouldn't have a problem. Limiting the number of characters is not the solution to getting around a page file size. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Gasp! You're right! On reading your second post, I revisited my table. All I did was insert a few words into each column and it worked. Then I copied exactly 255 characters into the buffer and pasted it into the previously created table, in each sucessive field. I was able to paste 4 copies successfully but the error came up on the 5th. Learn something every day, if you're lucky! Thanks, Jurgen. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying >to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 21 16:46:50 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:46:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC3B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:53:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:53:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1E@main2.marlow.com> I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't actually >affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 characters in will, >but >not the actual field size definition. However, if you limit a field to 35 >characters, because you think that's all a user will need, and one day they >need to put in 36 characters....NOW you are preventing the record from >being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid > >topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS > >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they > >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them > >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text > >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I > >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 16:58:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1F@main2.marlow.com> It's funny that you mention this. I have talked about a project with Mike Mattys, where I would host a 'web registration' setup. I would provide a module to place within your project, then it would interact with my website, allowing you to setup registration 'flags', ie, system info, etc, along with when it's registration expires, etc. It is not quite on a back burner, somewhere in the middle of the stove right now, but I was thinking about charging per registration, and splitting the income with the list. (I'm sure it's not going to generate much, but it would be something....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri May 21 17:18:08 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:18:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <000101c43f7e$7bb05780$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 17:49:43 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:49:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c43f85$e8a145a0$020a0a0a@keithhome> It is a bar code label. 3 lines.........1) Barcode; 2) Description; and 3) Price. The label is a 3/4" x 2" removable label. One label per row. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 17:50:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:50:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF20@main2.marlow.com> Two things. One, change the name and remove the previous databases when you start Access. I say this because one of my biggest pet peeves goes like this: I get a request that someone has a problem with XYZ report. I call up the person, and ask which database the report is in. Answer: Access. Okay, that did me a lot of good. If they say they have a problem with an excel or word file, and I ask where that xyz file is, I get the path. I think the problem is that Access isn't really an association word that people put together with being a database, and by having Access ask for a previous database, it makes the system look like Access IS the database. Just leave the previous list in the File Menu, so people start catching on that Access is a tool, just like Word and Excel, and the .mdb file is the database. Two, add triggers. Of course, this would be tricky to do with a client side database, but not impossible. It would require a major revision with Jet. But if you involve triggers, it would give the datasheet view more excel like capabilities, and make end users comfortable with Excel a leg up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Fri May 21 17:51:03 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:51:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191ACE@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Arthur; Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from "singapore address" with google NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA 9 Raffles Place #27-01 Republic Plaza SINGAPORE 048619 -am I being too simplistic? Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) Have a good week-end. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > present a list of countries, cities and > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > address format places the street number after the street name > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > \City\, \Province\ > \PostalCode\ > \Country\ > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > into the template. > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > I can add new templates for your countries. > > TIA, > Arthur > > P.S. > Anyone with specialized knowledge of city-states such as > Singapore is especially invited to contribute! > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From MPorter at acsalaska.com Fri May 21 17:55:03 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:55:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170299FA@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> Odd, I charge MORE because I'm fully employed. > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I noticed that too. Since I'm employed full time, I charge less for > contract. I consider it a trade off, not on my skills, but > on my demand of > time. I charge less because it's understood I can only work > on things at > night, or on the weekend. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 > per hour ... > Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm > fully employed > as a programmer building commercial applications, so > everything else is > sort of a mad money. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), > > > > Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. > (Fuller's > Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of > me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level > and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and > simple, and > it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. > > > > Arthur: > > Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last > conversed.) > > Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal > desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize > cost. This > attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. > Labor is just > like any other raw material component in the manufacturing > process. You > find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that > supplier." > > There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software > developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky > Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) > times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. > The typical > "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say > $150.00/hour), and > compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges > $75.00/hour. (Of > course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in > only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" > programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of > course, the > truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you > to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound > up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some > managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of > everything > and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get > "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve > getting hosed - > because they were so cheap - and stupid! > > I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of > software development jobs to places like India. I have > nothing against > folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try > to improve > themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some > "shareholder value" > obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to > India] may > be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel > proclaiming, > "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software > developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really > mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers > here in the > United States. > > To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software > jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work > always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) > developers. > > Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 21/5/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From john at winhaven.net Fri May 21 17:58:39 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:58:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: <000801c43f85$e8a145a0$020a0a0a@keithhome> Message-ID: Keith, Do you need this real quick or can it wait a day? 6:00 PM here and the wife is waiting for me to do soemthing with her :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box It is a bar code label. 3 lines.........1) Barcode; 2) Description; and 3) Price. The label is a 3/4" x 2" removable label. One label per row. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 21 18:03:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:03:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF21@main2.marlow.com> I also am usually subcontracting, which takes a lot of hassle out of my hands, so I charge less, so the person taking the hassle on can get a cut. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Porter, Mark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Odd, I charge MORE because I'm fully employed. > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I noticed that too. Since I'm employed full time, I charge less for > contract. I consider it a trade off, not on my skills, but > on my demand of > time. I charge less because it's understood I can only work > on things at > night, or on the weekend. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 > per hour ... > Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm > fully employed > as a programmer building commercial applications, so > everything else is > sort of a mad money. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), > > > > Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. > (Fuller's > Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of > me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level > and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and > simple, and > it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. > > > > Arthur: > > Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last > conversed.) > > Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal > desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize > cost. This > attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. > Labor is just > like any other raw material component in the manufacturing > process. You > find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that > supplier." > > There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software > developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky > Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) > times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. > The typical > "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say > $150.00/hour), and > compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges > $75.00/hour. (Of > course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in > only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" > programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of > course, the > truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you > to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound > up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some > managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of > everything > and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get > "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve > getting hosed - > because they were so cheap - and stupid! > > I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of > software development jobs to places like India. I have > nothing against > folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try > to improve > themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some > "shareholder value" > obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to > India] may > be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel > proclaiming, > "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software > developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really > mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers > here in the > United States. > > To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software > jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work > always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) > developers. > > Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 21/5/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 18:47:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:47:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Ditto. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 18:53:22 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:53:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: Canada post guidlines stipulate City, province abbreviation and postal code appear on a single line. The prefer a fixed width font, no punctuation except where it is part of an official name and one space between words, two spaces before the postal code. All my Canadian addressing adheres to this standard. I would never combine these into a single storage field. I split these bits of information in order to be able to find/sort/filter. I can see where allowing a user to modify a particular combination/order of field data into a single address would be useful if you cannot arrive at an algorithm that handles all scenarios. Fortunately I only use Word for automation for anything requiring addressing and I have few countries to handle so I have not had to resort to a memo field for this data. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Arthur; >Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list >the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from >"singapore address" with google > >NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA >9 Raffles Place >#27-01 >Republic Plaza >SINGAPORE 048619 > >-am I being too simplistic? >Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line >from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) >Have a good week-end. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > > present a list of countries, cities and > > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > > address format places the street number after the street name > > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > > \City\, \Province\ > > \PostalCode\ > > \Country\ > > > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > > into the template. > > > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > > I can add new templates for your countries. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 18:53:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:53:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You know, that's fascinating. I typically set the field size to 255 and forget it. The person can enter whatever length they need in Address1, Address2, last name, first name etc. Of course I use memo fields for the paragraph length tomes that are sometimes needed. I have never seen (to my knowledge) a failure to write the data. I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Fri May 21 19:00:23 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:00:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J?rgen: I'm curious ... did the guidelines change? When I ran a mail and file room a few years ago, we were informed by Canada Post that the postal code was required to be on a line by itself. NAME ADDRESS MUNICIPALITY PC Z9Z 9Z9 Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 19:53 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Addresses Canada post guidlines stipulate City, province abbreviation and postal code appear on a single line. The prefer a fixed width font, no punctuation except where it is part of an official name and one space between words, two spaces before the postal code. All my Canadian addressing adheres to this standard. I would never combine these into a single storage field. I split these bits of information in order to be able to find/sort/filter. I can see where allowing a user to modify a particular combination/order of field data into a single address would be useful if you cannot arrive at an algorithm that handles all scenarios. Fortunately I only use Word for automation for anything requiring addressing and I have few countries to handle so I have not had to resort to a memo field for this data. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Arthur; >Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list >the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from >"singapore address" with google > >NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA >9 Raffles Place >#27-01 >Republic Plaza >SINGAPORE 048619 > >-am I being too simplistic? >Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line >from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) >Have a good week-end. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > > present a list of countries, cities and > > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > > address format places the street number after the street name > > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > > \City\, \Province\ > > \PostalCode\ > > \Country\ > > > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > > into the template. > > > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > > I can add new templates for your countries. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:01:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:01:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. And the answer is.... drum roll.... 4240 bytes in A2K - (16 fields x 255 characters) + (1 field x 160 characters) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You know, that's fascinating. I typically set the field size to 255 and forget it. The person can enter whatever length they need in Address1, Address2, last name, first name etc. Of course I use memo fields for the paragraph length tomes that are sometimes needed. I have never seen (to my knowledge) a failure to write the data. I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:14:10 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:14:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. Which did you get? In cases like this I think it is IMPERATIVE to let the client know just how ugly the original code was. They may want to go back to the original developer and get money back etc. Plus they just have to be in a position to understand what they got, and what they will be getting, and what it will take to get there. If you don't tell them all of that then there is no way for them to know that you didn't break the wonderful code that they already paid for! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:15:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:15:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >I know I seem argumentative sometimes, ... No! Really? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:19:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:19:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1707336E@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: >When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I keep waiting for the shareholders (and BOD) to realize that Indian CEOs are just as capable and don't want 50 million a year for their services. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:21:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:21:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF10@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >if they want to teach something, do it right, because it is just that much more difficult to tech the right way once someone gets used to bad methods. Hmmm.... I seem to remember making that argument in the great PK debate some years ago (has it been that long?). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I'm being recruited by ITT.....sort of. It's tempting. It just grates my nerves when I see things being taught incorrectly. I don't care if they are teaching to the LCD, if they want to teach something, do it right, because it is just that much more difficult to tech the right way once someone gets used to bad methods. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:22:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:22:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >*I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Hmm.... am I supposed to argue this point? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 19:26:36 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:26:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <09d401c43f72$9fd53bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: I believe the limit was raised to 4K+ with A2K. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Having never heard this before, I created an Access table with 9 text (255) fields and successfully added a row. Then I decided to add some more fields to the table, all text 255. I quit at 20, where I was able to add and edit a row. This is Access 2002 so your results may differ. In this version, the 2k limit is no longer. The database is Access 2000 style, so this must have been true then too. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character limit on record size in mdb files? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Fri May 21 20:01:31 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:01:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c43f98$525e30e0$020a0a0a@keithhome> John, Sorry. Yes...it can wait. I actually went to Lebans.com and saw the XRotate ActiveX control. I tried that....it actually worked....except that for some reason it won't allow bar code font. I don't know if this is because it wants a different start/stop code, than what I had before (using "*" as start/stop character.) Or if this is just an inherent problem with this particular ActiveX Control. So, so far, this hasn't been a solution for me yet. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Do you need this real quick or can it wait a day? 6:00 PM here and the wife is waiting for me to do soemthing with her :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box It is a bar code label. 3 lines.........1) Barcode; 2) Description; and 3) Price. The label is a 3/4" x 2" removable label. One label per row. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box OK, this may work then. Can you describe what it is you're trying to print to it and what size label? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box John, It is a Dymo Labelwriter 330 Turbo. Keith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Keith, Which Dymo are you targeting? I developed some code to feed the Dymo OLE object. You don't have to change the orientation with it. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Virtical Text Box Can someone tell me how to do a vertical text box? I am creating a report for a Dymo Label Printer.....and have to have the text boxes oriented vertically...but can't figure out how to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks, Keith Williamson -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:02:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:02:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well said. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:02:31 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:02:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC39@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: We back in history...and I remember those days well. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Charlotte, I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, programming and implementing a financial reporting and planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL because the system at the time was wide open, but that is another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) was a crook. Regards, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 20:04:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC3B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri May 21 20:06:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:06:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. Amen!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:12:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:12:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000101c43f5d$ded92e20$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: Bleeding edge or old antique...the only way to make money programming. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >> a primitive spreadsheet program which ran on an IBM 370 Wow that takes me back. I designed and co-wrote one of those, SomethingOrOtherCalc it was called - originally. (I don't mean that literally I just can't recall - you get the picture.) Was going to make my fortune but unfortunately these things called IBM PC's came along and somewhat destroyed the market. That's why I'm scratching a living with Access. Aah well. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: 21 May 2004 18:41 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Charlotte, > I guess we all have our own prejudices based on our unique > experiences but I had to grin at your "rant" because I had > almost a mirror image experience. As it happens, I joined a > major bank holding Co approx 30 years ago with a newly minted > MBA, and the first major dragon I had to slay was designing, > programming and implementing a financial reporting and > planning system. This task fell to me because the IT dept was > incapable of making it happen with the personnel and tools at > their disposal and in any case was backlogged 2 years with > requests. My recollection of this pre-PC period was a lot of > IT shops were swamped because COBOL and FORTRAN were about > it. I was able to succeed with a primitive spreadsheet > program which ran on an IBM 370, a lot of late nights and a > TSO partition (remember those?). I was dangerous with JCL > because the system at the time was wide open, but that is > another story :-). BTW of the MBAs at the time who worked > with and for me, one started a successful NYSE listed > company, several have risen to the top of their companies, a > couple were indeed congenital idiots and one (Jeff Skilling) > was a crook. > > Regards, > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur, > > Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the > major banks decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in > their management structure because these guys must know what > they were doing. So they brought in a bunch of whiz kids who > lasted a year or two before their employers got wise to the > fact that getting a degree didn't mean you knew how to do > anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an academic setting. > > Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, > and it takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the > bad stuff you see is because Access has always been marketed > as an end user tool, so everyone who can use a wizard thinks > of themselves as a developer. I once worked on overhauling > an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 to a > "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to > give them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! > The guy > *may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but > he knew sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client > recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing > same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were > closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into > FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole > thing across the net! > > They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once > I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and > billed for 2 days. > > Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some > incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables > of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > > Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE > which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made > copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup > tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to > (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK > and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and > this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t > sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > > I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before > -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a > matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. > > More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues > of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the > bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation > like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got > high-fives from all directions :) > > This is a strange business :) > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 20:22:55 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:22:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Another grim tale from the other-side...the first one gets the money (and the glory?) and the next get the blame. Pretty standard fare for a developer. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri May 21 20:32:13 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:32:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: http://www.canadapost.ca/personal/tools/pg/manual/b03-e.asp#c002 an excerpt: ? Addresses should be written in upper case; however, mailers may wish to use lower case due to individual preference or other considerations. ? Postal codes must be printed in upper case with the first three elements separated from the last three by one space (no hyphens). ? The municipality, province or territory, and postal code should always appear on the same line. I don't know when this became the standard but the standards were devised to work with scanning equipment for machine sorting/routing. I've been following this standard for several years. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Bob Gajewski" > >J?rgen: > >I'm curious ... did the guidelines change? When I ran a mail and file room >a >few years ago, we were informed by Canada Post that the postal code was >required to be on a line by itself. > >NAME >ADDRESS >MUNICIPALITY PC >Z9Z 9Z9 > >Regards, >Bob Gajewski > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 19:53 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Addresses > > >Canada post guidlines stipulate City, province abbreviation and postal code >appear on a single line. The prefer a fixed width font, no punctuation >except where it is part of an official name and one space between words, >two >spaces before the postal code. All my Canadian addressing adheres to this >standard. > >I would never combine these into a single storage field. I split these >bits >of information in order to be able to find/sort/filter. I can see where >allowing a user to modify a particular combination/order of field data into >a single address would be useful if you cannot arrive at an algorithm that >handles all scenarios. Fortunately I only use Word for automation for >anything requiring addressing and I have few countries to handle so I have >not had to resort to a memo field for this data. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > > > >Arthur; > >Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list > >the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from > >"singapore address" with google > > > >NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA > >9 Raffles Place > >#27-01 > >Republic Plaza > >SINGAPORE 048619 > > > >-am I being too simplistic? > >Damn Canadians - had to put that insane postal code on a separate line > >from province > bigger labels (I'm Canadian so I can criticize!) > >Have a good week-end. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:17 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Addresses > > > > > > > > > I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may > > > present a list of countries, cities and > > > provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I > > > assemble the address according to a template in the Countries > > > table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, > > > and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common > > > address format places the street number after the street name > > > (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from > > > country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it > > > with a template in the Countries table which looks something > > > like this (for the Netherlands, say): > > > > > > \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ > > > \City\, \Province\ > > > \PostalCode\ > > > \Country\ > > > > > > Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data > > > into the template. > > > > > > I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so > > > I can add new templates for your countries. > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 21:23:19 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:23:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again In-Reply-To: <040e01c4410a$b867b820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: I am glad to hear you have unraveled a solution... It should work. Good luck Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 2:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then be > used as a date or string and will still validate and sort correctly. Then > just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an ethnocentric > American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the world where they > may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's probably a > better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American date > but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which caused another > problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I could > just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use date serial > to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that where you're > trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and you > > want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the format to > > construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > > > > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) the > > > expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 21:23:24 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:23:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) In-Reply-To: <09e901c43f7b$f4d0abe0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: I feel it is. Recently, with a partner we purchased a full Miscroft 'Action Pac' for about $560.00Can. The software in the package was worth an estimated $10,000.00US. The deal on the software is great but now all my software has to be registered...a trade-off. I feel it was an acceptable trade...at this moment but you are right this is just the tip of the MS-berg. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 21 21:33:32 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:33:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC3B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: Excellent bit of prose, very good points were made. Access has a very range of "developers" that it will tolerate... An afternoon to learn and a life-time to master. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 22:23:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:23:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191ACE@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: <0a4a01c43fac$28881bf0$6601a8c0@rock> Who can argue with your recommendation? I have been to 31 countries so far, and that's a far cry from the number of countries in the world. You're absolutely right. As soon as I win the big-time lottery you can bet that I'll be GONE from this list and instead checking out those numerouse countries I haven't been to. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Addresses Arthur; Travel - expand your world - do some web surfing. Many web sites list the address information in a preferred/required format. Found this from "singapore address" with google NORBAR SOUTH EAST ASIA 9 Raffles Place #27-01 Republic Plaza SINGAPORE 048619 From artful at rogers.com Fri May 21 22:32:01 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:32:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0a4b01c43fad$58080830$6601a8c0@rock> This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 00:17:36 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:17:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF1F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <055f01c4414e$6d090a20$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Don't know if I can do anything for you but let me know. I have a home brew way to create a key kind of like the key you get with windows or Office - this one has sixteen alpha numeric characters with a bunch of data fields encoded and a hash character. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) > It's funny that you mention this. I have talked about a project with Mike > Mattys, where I would host a 'web registration' setup. I would provide a > module to place within your project, then it would interact with my website, > allowing you to setup registration 'flags', ie, system info, etc, along with > when it's registration expires, etc. It is not quite on a back burner, > somewhere in the middle of the stove right now, but I was thinking about > charging per registration, and splitting the income with the list. (I'm > sure it's not going to generate much, but it would be something....) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:38 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format > Again) > > > Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm > wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations > that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases > prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise > MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without > issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second > install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) > > What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it > realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a > registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in > automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the > database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, > and so on? > > Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for > you freelance developers? > > TIA for your responses. > > ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please > redirect us to dba-Tech. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is > the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. > Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the > key. > > (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the > expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last > access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', > and quit the app.) > > So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access > dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global > variable to hold the month date and year: > > Public gintExpirationDay As Integer > Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer > Public gintExpirationYear As Integer > Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer > Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer > Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer > > and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, > everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the > proper > values: > > Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays > the > expiration: > "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, > gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") > > or checking the expiration date > > ' Check to see if license has expired > If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, > gintExpirationDay) Then > MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software > (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation > Application.Quit > End If > > Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. > > Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a > better way... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > > described to match > your > > expiry date.... > > > > Dim TheirDate as Date > > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > > > TheirDate = Date > > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > > end if > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Drew: > > > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > > one > for > > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > > whether > to > > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > > caused another problem. > > > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > > > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > > DatePart("d",Date) > > > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > > know > > the > > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > > encoding > to > > > the format that you want, right? > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Jim: > > > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date > which > > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > > expired. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > > not > > > matter > > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > > still > a > > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > > translate > > > > any date. > > > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > > use > > the > > > US > > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > > a > key > > > and > > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > > setting > > for > > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > > but > > > can't > > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > > to > do > > > the > > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > > add > > cases > > > as > > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat May 22 02:39:32 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:39:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c43fd0$0402b410$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> And so say all of us! -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: 22 May 2004 00:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors > > > >Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it > >have > been my mentors. > > Ditto. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Hello All, > > In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: > > I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major > companies...and typically it was around different > dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have > always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, > or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT > department...and let them build in whatever platform they > wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps > using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in > leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access > Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access > training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my > drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but > foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and > a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' > and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they > exaggerate, but I accept it). > > Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people > on it have been my mentors. > > Thanks to everyone. > > Mark A. Matte > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 05:49:01 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:49:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors References: <000001c43fd0$0402b410$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <001201c43fea$67da1860$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Absolutly without a shadow nothing I am doing today would have happened if not for this list and the people on it. I am 100% sure about that. They give of their time and experience not only with Access but other things (JOIN OT) which combined make this list and the organisation a special place comprised of special people many of whom I am proud to have as friends. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Mentors > And so say all of us! > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: 22 May 2004 00:47 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] RE: Mentors > > > > > > >Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it > > >have > > been my mentors. > > > > Ditto. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:12 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: > > > > I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major > > companies...and typically it was around different > > dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have > > always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, > > or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT > > department...and let them build in whatever platform they > > wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps > > using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in > > leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access > > Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access > > training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my > > drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but > > foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and > > a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' > > and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they > > exaggerate, but I accept it). > > > > Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people > > on it have been my mentors. > > > > Thanks to everyone. > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at hotmail.com Sat May 22 08:23:10 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:23:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: You could try to format your field in the query with a format function ala Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Martin Kahelin" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > >Hi; >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. Numbers with 4 >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in >text file as 2.32. > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. >Martin > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat May 22 08:46:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:46:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0a4b01c43fad$58080830$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? Piece by piece. I build up a query that pulls data about one entity and a matching table for that entity (Claimant, Claim etc). In the new table I add a FK back to the original flat data record. If that flat data record doesn't already have one, I add an autonumber PK to it. In the query I pull the entity data and the PK of the flat data record and drop it into the new entity table. Move on to the next entity. Build Insurer with pointer back to flat. Build Policy with pointer back to flat. Build Claimant with pointer back to flat. Build Claim with pointer back to flat. Using pointer back to flat, update the policy Insurer with the Insurer ID from new Insurer table. Using pointer back to flat, update the claim with Claimant ID from new claimant table. Etc. Etc. It is a painstaking and time consuming thing. The bigger issue is the issue of extracting "just one" Claimant (for example) if the person has more than one claim. Now you have a single claimant that needs to be used in several different claim records so the "pointer back to flat" doesn't work. In this instance if you have a piece of unique data (a SSN for example) then you can build additional queries to join the SSN to the FLAT record to the new claim record to update the claimant id in the claimant table with the single claimant id in the claimant table. This whole process is an art, which done once, becomes trivial but time consuming. I build a separate database for the conversion process with all of these many queries in it. I then build up macros (usually sufficient) to sequence the queries in the right order. I build a macro to do a set of data, then a macro to sequence those macros in the correct order. This allows you to get the individual queries running, then get them running in the correct order, then "press a button" and run the whole lot at once. The entire process for this database took well over one hundred queries, in exactly the correct sequence. THEN.... comes data cleanup. If the same claimant is entered with SSNs with numbers transposed... well they are different claimants aren't they? Policy holders with a name mis-spelled... a different policy holders. These are exactly the reason that normalized databases exist and because we are coming from a flat file system these exact problems exist IN SPADES. Usually the cleanup gets done on an "as needed" basis. If a claim is closed, why do cleanup on it? If it ever needs to be cleaned up then they do. I have done this process on two major databases and a bunch of smaller ones. The process is always the same, queries sequenced correctly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 09:55:56 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:55:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts References: <000001c43fd0$0402b410$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002701c4400c$e3b82d60$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before appending the param and it still fails. Any advice more than welcome. There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar with about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. Martin From Developer at UltraDNT.com Sat May 22 10:13:14 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:13:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various CONVERT LEGACY FLAT TO RELATIONAL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c4400f$50b012a0$6401a8c0@COA3> Never, ever quote a flat fee for this type of conversion. Always go hourly. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur, Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? Piece by piece. I build up a query that pulls data about one entity and a matching table for that entity (Claimant, Claim etc). In the new table I add a FK back to the original flat data record. If that flat data record doesn't already have one, I add an autonumber PK to it. In the query I pull the entity data and the PK of the flat data record and drop it into the new entity table. Move on to the next entity. Build Insurer with pointer back to flat. Build Policy with pointer back to flat. Build Claimant with pointer back to flat. Build Claim with pointer back to flat. Using pointer back to flat, update the policy Insurer with the Insurer ID from new Insurer table. Using pointer back to flat, update the claim with Claimant ID from new claimant table. Etc. Etc. It is a painstaking and time consuming thing. The bigger issue is the issue of extracting "just one" Claimant (for example) if the person has more than one claim. Now you have a single claimant that needs to be used in several different claim records so the "pointer back to flat" doesn't work. In this instance if you have a piece of unique data (a SSN for example) then you can build additional queries to join the SSN to the FLAT record to the new claim record to update the claimant id in the claimant table with the single claimant id in the claimant table. This whole process is an art, which done once, becomes trivial but time consuming. I build a separate database for the conversion process with all of these many queries in it. I then build up macros (usually sufficient) to sequence the queries in the right order. I build a macro to do a set of data, then a macro to sequence those macros in the correct order. This allows you to get the individual queries running, then get them running in the correct order, then "press a button" and run the whole lot at once. The entire process for this database took well over one hundred queries, in exactly the correct sequence. THEN.... comes data cleanup. If the same claimant is entered with SSNs with numbers transposed... well they are different claimants aren't they? Policy holders with a name mis-spelled... a different policy holders. These are exactly the reason that normalized databases exist and because we are coming from a flat file system these exact problems exist IN SPADES. Usually the cleanup gets done on an "as needed" basis. If a claim is closed, why do cleanup on it? If it ever needs to be cleaned up then they do. I have done this process on two major databases and a bunch of smaller ones. The process is always the same, queries sequenced correctly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat May 22 10:58:15 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:58:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <088f01c43ec8$26752810$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <0b1601c44015$97b41970$6601a8c0@rock> Nobody but you has responded to this thread, sadly, and only with a question not with an answer. Oh well. In SQL Server the answer is obvious. Everything I want is available in the SysColumns table. Where is the same info in an MDB? Maybe I should just upsize the database and then run the SELECT? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, datatypes and field descriptions. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement > is the > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be > the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do > though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be > able to help a > little more. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, > column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other > attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want > the results as a table if possible. > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 11:07:45 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:07:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <0b1601c44015$97b41970$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000f01c44016$ec770de0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Sorry I know what it is you want to do but dont know excatly how to do it. I have sent your question to the individal I told you about. Asked him to respond directly to you. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > Nobody but you has responded to this thread, sadly, and only with a > question not with an answer. Oh well. In SQL Server the answer is > obvious. Everything I want is available in the SysColumns table. Where > is the same info in an MDB? > > Maybe I should just upsize the database and then run the SELECT? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:11 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, > datatypes and field descriptions. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select > fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? > > > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > > As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement > > is > the > > AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM > > tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be > > the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do > > > though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be > > able to help > a > > little more. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > > Fuller > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM > > To: AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > > > > Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks > > similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, > > column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other > > attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want > > > the results as a table if possible. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 11:16:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:16:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0a4b01c43fad$58080830$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat May 22 12:20:22 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:20:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 12:23:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:23:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts In-Reply-To: <002701c4400c$e3b82d60$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving variable has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to change all dates to strings. Eaxample: ... Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString .CommandText = "SQLSave03" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, 40, strLast) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, 30, strFirst) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, adParamInput, 30, strMiddle) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, adParamOutput) ... End With ... ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount If objCmd(1) > 0 then ... CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 @chvLast varchar(40), @chvFirst varchar(30), @chvMiddle varchar(30), @chvBirthDate varchar(11), @chvRangeDate varchar(11), @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT AS ... You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: ... Dim strSQL As String Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection objConn.Open globalConnectionString objConn.BeginTrans 'Note: '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific record from a specific form. '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. With MyRecord strSQL = "INSERT " & _ "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ "VALUES" & _ (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" End With objConn.Execute strSQL objConn.CommitTrans ... That is about all for now and I hope it helps. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before appending the param and it still fails. Any advice more than welcome. There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar with about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat May 22 12:50:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:50:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <0b1601c44015$97b41970$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40AF92E1.8000702@shaw.ca> It is all available through ADOX schemas. I may have some code lying around Arthur Fuller wrote: >Nobody but you has responded to this thread, sadly, and only with a >question not with an answer. Oh well. In SQL Server the answer is >obvious. Everything I want is available in the SysColumns table. Where >is the same info in an MDB? > >Maybe I should just upsize the database and then run the SELECT? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:11 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > >Exactly. I want to specify a table name and get back the list of fields, >datatypes and field descriptions. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid >Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:17 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > >Is it the system table information you are after?? For example Select >fieldname,datatype,description , indexes from some system table? > > > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:12 PM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > > > >>As far as I know, the only 'options' you have with a SELECT statement >>is >> >> >the > > >>AS keyword. ie, you can say SELECT MyField AS SomeOtherName FROM >>tblMyTable. That would create a field called MyField, which would be >>the 'caption' of a field. Not sure what you are actually trying to do >> >> > > > >>though, so if you explain what you are trying to accomplish, I may be >>able to help >> >> >a > > >>little more. >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >>Fuller >>Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:01 AM >>To: AccessD >>Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? >> >> >>Is there a way to write a SELECT statement so that its result looks >>similar to the display you see when you design a table? That is, >>column name, type and description -- I don't care about the other >>attributes at the moment. I know you can use the Documenter but I want >> >> > > > >>the results as a table if possible. >> >>TIA, >>Arthur >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 13:05:14 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:05:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts References: Message-ID: <002101c44027$56a395c0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Thanks Jim Wil try it out now. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > Hi Martin: > > Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and > percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, > strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving variable > has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to > change all dates to strings. > > Eaxample: > > ... > Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command > With objCmd > .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString > .CommandText = "SQLSave03" > .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, > 40, strLast) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, > 30, strFirst) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, adParamInput, > 30, strMiddle) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, > adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, > adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, > adParamOutput) > ... > End With > ... > > ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount > If objCmd(1) > 0 then > ... > > > > > CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 > @chvLast varchar(40), > @chvFirst varchar(30), > @chvMiddle varchar(30), > @chvBirthDate varchar(11), > @chvRangeDate varchar(11), > @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT > AS > ... > > > > You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: > > > ... > Dim strSQL As String > Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection > > Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection > objConn.Open globalConnectionString > objConn.BeginTrans > > 'Note: > '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific record > from a specific form. > '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. > > With MyRecord > strSQL = "INSERT " & _ > "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ > (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ > "VALUES" & _ > (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ > "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" > End With > > objConn.Execute strSQL > objConn.CommitTrans > ... > > > That is about all for now and I hope it helps. > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure > > Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message > > I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before > appending the param and it still fails. > > Any advice more than welcome. > > There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar with > about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Sat May 22 13:08:34 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:08:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <192360-22004562218834544@christopherhawkins.com> John, That sounds like 90% of the jobs I get called to do! It's very tiring work, having to refactor crap all the time. I'd kill for a chance to design & build a system from the ground up, but for some reason all the garbage developers seem to dominate that market, while those of us who know what they are doing seem to be the second-choice solution. I still haven't managed to figure out why that is so. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", when >dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in >too >many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application >designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned >economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - >a call >center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was >over 120 >fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, >Policy >Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus >dozens of >"lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a >"flat >file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they >just >started adding new fields onto the end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took >more months >to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data >etc. Had >I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing >task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED >that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again >to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they >would be >using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a >handful of >testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it >worked, >then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and >COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the >switch" >one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site >for the >next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that >arose, >to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants >calling the >database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db >running >until I could throw the switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could >very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just >doesn't >function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is >astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right >way >from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very >nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put down >some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women >and >children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the IT >side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense >to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the >business >couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of >Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I >discovered >Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could >no longer >satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were >my "state >of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received >"raves" >and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college >course >in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand >relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were >all >wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have >since >gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I >eventually >discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the >rule than >the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers >the vast >majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been >created by >the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely >shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a >lot about >the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are >using the >tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent >majority" of >Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day >basis. >This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was >designed >as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product >and the >creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has >evolved >far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, >personal >databases account for the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent >to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was >disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for >the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its >roots >and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the >practical >level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small >apps that, >however constructed, they can still get their arms around and >validate the >results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters >that have >grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT >professional can >no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. >Typically >these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for >pooper >scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if >Access >could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training >screens/magic to >ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to >developer >maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we >should >"colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even >harsher >terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic >to say >users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the >pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared >with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 >questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could >somehow >be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all >be >winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of >improvements >could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth >the >handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house >that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access >is as >much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so >alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the >department needs >such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a >little >about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental >perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going >to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but >for >awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that >that's >even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a >lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in >other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." >Those >folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and >laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect >to see, >so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without code. >Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap than >good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with >the >best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather >visit a >dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get a >certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have to >produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in >the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both >programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Sat May 22 13:10:36 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:10:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various CONVERT LEGACY FLAT TO RELATIONAL Message-ID: <216210-220045622181036640@christopherhawkins.com> I'll second that. In fact, I will go so far as to say that data conversion *cannot* be estimated, because every dataset is as unique as a snowflake. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: Developer at ultradnt.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design,and various CONVERT LEGACY FLAT TO RELATIONAL Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:13:14 -0400 >Never, ever quote a flat fee for this type of conversion. Always go >hourly. > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:47 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur, > >Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries >and >execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? > >Piece by piece. > >I build up a query that pulls data about one entity and a matching >table >for that entity (Claimant, Claim etc). In the new table I add a FK >back >to the original flat data record. If that flat data record doesn't >already have one, I add an autonumber PK to it. In the query I pull >the >entity data and the PK of the flat data record and drop it into the >new >entity table. Move on to the next entity. > >Build Insurer with pointer back to flat. >Build Policy with pointer back to flat. >Build Claimant with pointer back to flat. >Build Claim with pointer back to flat. > >Using pointer back to flat, update the policy Insurer with the >Insurer >ID from new Insurer table. Using pointer back to flat, update the >claim >with Claimant ID from new claimant table. > >Etc. Etc. > >It is a painstaking and time consuming thing. The bigger issue is >the >issue of extracting "just one" Claimant (for example) if the person >has >more than one claim. Now you have a single claimant that needs to be >used in several different claim records so the "pointer back to flat" >doesn't work. In this instance if you have a piece of unique data (a >SSN for example) then you can build additional queries to join the >SSN >to the FLAT record to the new claim record to update the claimant id >in >the claimant table with the single claimant id in the claimant table. > >This whole process is an art, which done once, becomes trivial but >time >consuming. I build a separate database for the conversion process >with >all of these many queries in it. I then build up macros (usually >sufficient) to sequence the queries in the right order. I build a >macro >to do a set of data, then a macro to sequence those macros in the >correct order. This allows you to get the individual queries >running, >then get them running in the correct order, then "press a button" and >run the whole lot at once. > >The entire process for this database took well over one hundred >queries, >in exactly the correct sequence. > >THEN.... comes data cleanup. If the same claimant is entered with >SSNs >with numbers transposed... well they are different claimants aren't >they? Policy holders with a name mis-spelled... a different policy >holders. These are exactly the reason that normalized databases >exist >and because we are coming from a flat file system these exact >problems >exist IN SPADES. Usually the cleanup gets done on an "as needed" >basis. >If a claim is closed, why do cleanup on it? If it ever needs to be >cleaned up then they do. > >I have done this process on two major databases and a bunch of >smaller >ones. The process is always the same, queries sequenced correctly. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >Fuller >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) >structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create >db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for >the >last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a >correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it >yet. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", >when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected >guerrillas >in too many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application designed by the typical user often simply can't be >transitioned economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a >call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table >was >over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities >(Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, >Physician2 >etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). >They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the >insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the >end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more >months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the >data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far >less imposing task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms >they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization >and >have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to >ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new >system >(it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I >had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I >was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real >time >the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and >their >client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top >of >all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the >switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company >just doesn't function without the database and the cost of >"transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of >a >system the right way from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very >nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put >down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the >women and children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the >IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of >the >business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over >time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel >"database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years >Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy >as >a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office >guru >to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at >that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases >and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for >the >fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to >develop >my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) >the >point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. >I >am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority >of >useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the >user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people >who >know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. >Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. >This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are >attempting to >solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone >because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a >tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of >developers >such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a >simple >personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account >for >the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also >was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay >true >to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this >mean >at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not >with >the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their >arms >around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into >mission >critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point >where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that >things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space >before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is >the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given >additional >tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition >in >the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. >While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the >users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of >endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say >users >should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to >play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools >could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer >transition we >would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what >sort >of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning >curve >and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? >Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's >what >makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you >the >department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, >know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a >developmental perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, >but >for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know >that >that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it >happens >a lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone >can >"do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is >inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what >people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without >code. Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap >than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff >with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, >I'd >rather visit a dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:11:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:11:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: I see your argument. Maybe I am using the word 'artistic' in an unusual context but I simply do not know how to describe the process that say, allows you to jump to third level normalization without going through the proscribed steps or visualizing an eloquent solution to a programming problem, over coffee or the feeling that something is not 'balanced' in a database structure even you though you have only done a cursory check or know where an error is with only limited research. I also believe that the art of data presentation is as important, to an overall data solution, as functionality. All of the above items can be done with a hard edged, step-by-step scientific approach but I have observed programmers that can simple 'jump'. I am sure every programmer has at one time or another experienced this 'Zen', 'Revelation', 'work-outside-the-box' or what ever you would like to call it 'state'. I like to describe it as the art programming. I believe there is no perfect applications, There are many close but each can be improved. The longer a developer gets to hone a program the better it evolves, (or at it least should). IMHO, if the developer can not combine the scientific and artist approach to their programs how can they truly enjoy their work or progress beyond a certain point? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat May 22 13:14:24 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:14:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts References: <002101c44027$56a395c0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <003101c44028$9dde5640$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Oh and dont do this one Cut out all the parameters from the VBA module, close it and then save the changes. Its a real kick in the %^$$% when you go back to change a parameter and not only is it not there but the other 49 are gone as well. Going for a smoke and cup of coffee and maybe kick the yard door a time or two!!!! MArtin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > Thanks Jim > > Wil try it out now. > > > Martin > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > Hi Martin: > > > > Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and > > percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, > > strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving > variable > > has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to > > change all dates to strings. > > > > Eaxample: > > > > ... > > Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command > > With objCmd > > .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString > > .CommandText = "SQLSave03" > > .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 40, strLast) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 30, strFirst) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, > adParamInput, > > 30, strMiddle) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, > > adParamOutput) > > ... > > End With > > ... > > > > ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount > > If objCmd(1) > 0 then > > ... > > > > > > > > > > CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 > > @chvLast varchar(40), > > @chvFirst varchar(30), > > @chvMiddle varchar(30), > > @chvBirthDate varchar(11), > > @chvRangeDate varchar(11), > > @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT > > AS > > ... > > > > > > > > You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: > > > > > > ... > > Dim strSQL As String > > Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection > > > > Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection > > objConn.Open globalConnectionString > > objConn.BeginTrans > > > > 'Note: > > '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific > record > > from a specific form. > > '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. > > > > With MyRecord > > strSQL = "INSERT " & _ > > "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ > > (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ > > "VALUES" & _ > > (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ > > "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" > > End With > > > > objConn.Execute strSQL > > objConn.CommitTrans > > ... > > > > > > That is about all for now and I hope it helps. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > > > ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure > > > > Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message > > > > I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before > > appending the param and it still fails. > > > > Any advice more than welcome. > > > > There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar > with > > about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. > > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:12:31 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:12:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: Message-ID: <40AF980F.100@shaw.ca> This is actually all documented by Microsoft. This was an online book for a couple of years on the MS Site but then some bright light at Microsoft pulled it. Probably because it was out of date or out of print, who knows what machinations go on there. Appendix A Specifications "Microsoft Jet Database Engine Programmer's Guide from Microsoft Press" I believe there are two editions I have edition one 1995 ISBN 1556158777 For example queries number of tables 32 number of fields in recordset 255 number of fields in order by clause 10 number of nested queries 50 number of chars in parameter name 255 number of ANDS in an expression 40 number of chars in SQL statement 64,000 John W. Colby wrote: >>I think I will go off right now and test what error I see when I >> >> >intentionally try and save a record with more than 2K record size. > >And the answer is.... drum roll.... 4240 bytes in A2K - (16 fields x 255 >characters) + (1 field x 160 characters) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:54 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >You know, that's fascinating. I typically set the field size to 255 and >forget it. The person can enter whatever length they need in Address1, >Address2, last name, first name etc. Of course I use memo fields for the >paragraph length tomes that are sometimes needed. I have never seen (to my >knowledge) a failure to write the data. I think I will go off right now and >test what error I see when I intentionally try and save a record with more >than 2K record size. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be saved. > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, Access >will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k character >limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >>From: DWUTKA at marlow.com >> >>Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid >>topic. >> >>Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >>course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what they >>are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them >>naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text >>fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I >>completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have >>the same result. >> >>It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. >> >>Drew >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Sat May 22 13:15:23 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:15:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? In-Reply-To: <40AF92E1.8000702@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0b4601c44028$bfc27c00$6601a8c0@rock> Stupid me. I forgot about ADOX! Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? It is all available through ADOX schemas. I may have some code lying around From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:25:36 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:25:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? References: <0b4601c44028$bfc27c00$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40AF9B20.3030407@shaw.ca> This may save you some time Public Function GetFieldType(colSchema As ADOX.Column) As String ' ----- Return the type of the indicated field as a string. On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Select Case (colSchema.Type) Case adTinyInt, adUnsignedTinyInt, adSmallInt, adUnsignedSmallInt GetFieldType = "Integer" Case adInteger, adUnsignedInt, adBigInt, adUnsignedBigInt ' ----- Long integer fields may auto-increment. If (CBool(colSchema.Properties("AutoIncrement")) = True) Then GetFieldType = "AutoNumber" Else GetFieldType = "Long Integer" End If Case adSingle GetFieldType = "Single" Case adDouble GetFieldType = "Double" Case adCurrency GetFieldType = "Currency" Case adDecimal GetFieldType = "Decimal" Case adNumeric GetFieldType = "Numeric" Case adBoolean GetFieldType = "Yes/No" Case adUserDefined, adVariant, adBSTR GetFieldType = "Other" Case adGUID GetFieldType = "GUID" Case adDate, adDBDate, adDBTime, adDBTimeStamp GetFieldType = "Date/Time" Case adChar, adVarChar, adWChar, adVarWChar ' ----- For text fields, determine the length as well. GetFieldType = "Text(" & colSchema.DefinedSize & ")" Case adLongVarChar, adLongVarWChar GetFieldType = "Memo" Case adBinary, adVarBinary, adLongVarBinary GetFieldType = "Binary" Case Else GetFieldType = "Unknown" End Select Exit Function ErrorHandler: ' ----- Something is wrong with this entry. GetFieldType = "Unknown" Exit Function End Function Arthur Fuller wrote: >Stupid me. I forgot about ADOX! Thanks! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:50 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Select statements to get column definitions? > > >It is all available through ADOX schemas. >I may have some code lying around > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 13:34:09 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:34:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts In-Reply-To: <003101c44028$9dde5640$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Martin: Insanity. If you can resist the temptation to push the computer through the gyhp-rock you have had a successful day. ...but, being through similar circumstance before, it is always amazing how fast you can re-build code running on an adrenalin high. My two cent worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts Oh and dont do this one Cut out all the parameters from the VBA module, close it and then save the changes. Its a real kick in the %^$$% when you go back to change a parameter and not only is it not there but the other 49 are gone as well. Going for a smoke and cup of coffee and maybe kick the yard door a time or two!!!! MArtin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > Thanks Jim > > Wil try it out now. > > > Martin > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > Hi Martin: > > > > Pay particular attention to the receiving SP. The numeric types and > > percision has to exactly match the receiving variables, names, fields, > > strings the exact length or longer and the order of the recieiving > variable > > has to exactly match. Another problem, that I found and resolved, was to > > change all dates to strings. > > > > Eaxample: > > > > ... > > Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command > > With objCmd > > .ActiveConnection = globalConnectionString > > .CommandText = "SQLSave03" > > .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvLast", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 40, strLast) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvFirst", adVarChar, adParamInput, > > 30, strFirst) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvMiddle", adVarChar, > adParamInput, > > 30, strMiddle) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvBirthDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strBirthDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@chvRangeDate", adVarChar, > > adParamInput, 11, strRangeDate) > > .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@intRecordCount", adInteger, > > adParamOutput) > > ... > > End With > > ... > > > > ' Number of records changed: @intRecordCount > > If objCmd(1) > 0 then > > ... > > > > > > > > > > CREATE PROC dbo.SQLSave03 > > @chvLast varchar(40), > > @chvFirst varchar(30), > > @chvMiddle varchar(30), > > @chvBirthDate varchar(11), > > @chvRangeDate varchar(11), > > @intRecordCount INT OUTPUT > > AS > > ... > > > > > > > > You can always use an 'INSERT' sql string like: > > > > > > ... > > Dim strSQL As String > > Dim objConn As ADODB.Connection > > > > Set objConn = New ADODB.Connection > > objConn.Open globalConnectionString > > objConn.BeginTrans > > > > 'Note: > > '1. That MyRecord is just a 'type' structure that matches a specific > record > > from a specific form. > > '2. Single quotes around all strings including dates. > > > > With MyRecord > > strSQL = "INSERT " & _ > > "INTO AlsoKnowAs " & _ > > (Counter, EMPNUM, NAME, RECORD_DATE) " & _ > > "VALUES" & _ > > (" & lngCounter & ", " & glEmployeeNumber & ", '" & .AKANAME & _ > > "', '" & .AKARECORD_DATE & "')" > > End With > > > > objConn.Execute strSQL > > objConn.CommitTrans > > ... > > > > > > That is about all for now and I hope it helps. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Parameters - Driving me nuts > > > > > > ADO Parameters being passed to an Insert Stored Procedure > > > > Keeps falling over with a Precision not valid message > > > > I reworte putting in the Numberic Scale and the Precision values before > > appending the param and it still fails. > > > > Any advice more than welcome. > > > > There are approx 40 parameters being passed. Mosst of the are Advarchar > with > > about 5 being Ints. This isidriving me nuts. > > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat May 22 18:30:17 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:30:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <40B06F29.6414.F9E553E@localhost> On 22 May 2004 at 13:20, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > I 'd call myself an agnostic as far as database design is concerend, but I'm strongly of the "programming as an art" school. > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. "mechanics" is a key word. There's nothing mechnical about programming. It's more like writing a poetry. You have a set of building tools and rules (language, meter, rhyme in poetry). With the same tools, you end up with either Robert Burns and Willima Topaz "The Great" McGonagall. That's why you will often get ten different solutions when you ask a programming question here. Some of these solutions can be very McGonagallish (convoluted, long winded, inefficient) but still workable. Then someone will come up a really elegant solution ( often as the result of refining some else's initial idea). > As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > This is where the agnosticism creeps in. I think that at times, there are valid reasons for not full normalising your data, the art comes in knowing where you can safely bend the rules. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From karenr7 at oz.net Sat May 22 22:01:43 2004 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:01:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] (no subject) Message-ID: <200405230301.i4N31hQ02110@databaseadvisors.com> OK, so I've got my little license database all put together, reports, forms etc. Just one little problem. On reports a field, ProfLicense, is showing up in white on black. It is from a subtable, tProfLicense, and is a title pulled from another table, tCertification. The tCertification table has only 1 field containing the various types of certification. No ID field. Just want to fill in the field ProfLicense. In the report, the properties list tells me that the field is being sucked in from tCertification, not tProfLicense. I have a one to many relationship set up between the main table, tEmployees, and a foreign key in the subtable, tProfLicense, because an employee can have more than one license. In properties I can't make the field appear in the normal black on white. How come? Serves me right for trying to normalize, grumble grumble... Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA karenr7 at oz dot net (Spam blocker -- resolve into a real email address) From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 23 15:40:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:40:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT Test In-Reply-To: <40B06F29.6414.F9E553E@localhost> Message-ID: Test 1:40PM Sunday ... local From pedro at plex.nl Sun May 23 16:03:05 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:03:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word Message-ID: <000101c4410a$95b96490$f4c581d5@pedro> Hello Group, After merging data from access with use of properties in word, i use the code below to save a word document in a certain directory with the name; Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID").doc, by clicking a button. When the documentname in the directory already excist i would have the name changed to Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_1.doc or Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_2.doc etc, etc. Can this been done? Pedro Janssen Sub BezoekRapportOpslag() For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then strFileNamePart = prop.Value Exit For End If Next strFilename = "W:\Werkbrieven Opslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" & strFileNamePart & ".doc" ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFilename End Sub From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 23 17:35:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:35:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word In-Reply-To: <000101c4410a$95b96490$f4c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <40B1B3BB.10789.DA3B3@localhost> On 23 May 2004 at 23:03, Pedro Janssen wrote: > Hello Group, > > > After merging data from access with use of properties in word, i use > the code below to save a word document in a certain directory with the > name; Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID").doc, by clicking a button. When > the documentname in the directory already excist i would have the name > changed to Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_1.doc or > Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_2.doc etc, etc. Can this been done? > > Just check for the existence of a file with the name and suffix and increment it if necessary in a loop until you find a unique one. Dim flgSaved as Boolean Dim strSuffix as String flgSaved = False strSuffix = "" Do strFilename = Dir$("W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" If Dir$(strFilename) > " " Then ' File exists strSuffix = str$(val(strSuffix)+1) ' use a larger suffix Else flg Saved = True ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFilename flgSaved = True End If Loop Until flgSaved -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun May 23 22:15:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:15:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B06F29.6414.F9E553E@localhost> References: <0b2b01c44021$108e0da0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40B1F58B.29777.10EB739@localhost> More on programming as an art: http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,63506,00.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Sun May 23 22:59:07 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B1F58B.29777.10EB739@localhost> Message-ID: Alan Cooper on programming as not art or science, but craftsmanship: http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/departments/softwarearchitect/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various More on programming as an art: http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,63506,00.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 03:27:48 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:27:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <40B1F58B.29777.10EB739@localhost> Message-ID: <40B23EA4.31721.22C41CB@localhost> On 23 May 2004 at 22:59, JMoss wrote: > Alan Cooper on programming as not art or science, but craftsmanship: > > http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/departments/softwarearchitect/ > Interesting article, but I think this is starting to get a bit OT now for AccessD. (My fault!). I think we'd better drop it before the moderators start slapping us. :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 24 07:43:34 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:43:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 08:19:20 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:19:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybetoo simple? Message-ID: Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-maybetoo simple? The thread is titled "Highlight field being edited in a continuous form - in 9 simple steps", so I think we can be forgiven for addressing that issue. Mark's solution works in A97, using 0 coding steps. The real question is why field highlighting, combined with the record selector, is not adequate. Yes, it doesn't highlight check boxes, which is a pity. Yes, you can code around it, but are the gains really worth the cost? We all enjoy the challenge of solving these problems, but maybe in this case it is better to say the no-code solution is good enough. I would prefer the simple but compromised solution over a 'better' one that adds to the code base I have to maintain. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb e too simple? Andy, You are correct. My original question was centered around Acc97(mentioned in my second follow-up e-mail) and checkboxes. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. -maybe too simple? If my memory seves me right this thread started on an A97 problem. No conmditional formatting in A97. That's why we have to go all around the houses to achieve this. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > Sent: 21 May 2004 01:01 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] > Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - > maybe too simple? > > > Cool... Just tried the conditional formatting, you can get > the highlighted row effect by: > > a) add a hidden unbound field to the form header (or detail?) > b) in the got focus event (of the detail fields) set > the unbound field > to the records key fields value > c) in the conditional formatting put something like > Expression is: [c1]=[c3] > where [C1] is the key and [c3] the hidden control > in the header (or detail?) > d) copy the formatting to the other fields in the row > > Dunno if this is efficient but its pretty easy... Got a new toy :O) > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 21 May 2004 00:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight > fieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Only the current record can get the focus. If you have a > combobox in a continuous form, all instances don't drop down > when you click the arrow in the current record. Using the > Backcolor and backstyle method works the same way. I didn't > suggest this one because I understood the original question > to ask how to highlight the whole current record, not just > the control with the focus. This method goes back at least > to 97, since I used it there. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkH [mailto:lists at theopg.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field > beingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > No worries :@) That's what I thought initially. I did a > simple form and tried it out. Only the field in the current > row that has the focus changes colour. I don't recall if this > is how previous versions of Access behaved, but I do remember > several years ago coming across the same problem and, if I > remember correctly, a similar solution to the one mentioned > earlier (the 9 steps bit). Only the control with the focus > changes colour, not all of the ones in the same row or column... > > Mark > PS - my memories clearing a bit... The problem I came across > before was how to make alternate rows in a continuous form > different colours. The solution looked similar, no idea where > I saw it though. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: 20 May 2004 22:36 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > editedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps. - maybe too simple? > > > Sorry Mark. Surely on a continuous form all records are > affected, whereas the requirement was to highlight only the > current row. If this does that I'll stand corrected and don't see how. > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:45 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being > > editedinacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Hi Andy > > > > It works on continuous forms too... Just tried it > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:41 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited > > inacontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > Mark > > It was the continuous forms bit you missed. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH > > > Sent: 20 May 2004 21:27 > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Highlight field being edited in > > > acontinuousform-in9simple steps. - maybe too simple? > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I've missed most of this thread so apologies if this is a time > > > waster... > > > > > > If all you want to do is highlight a text box that has the > > focus then > > > just set the back colour to the highlight colour and make > the back > > > style transparent. As long as the forms background is a different > > > colour Access does the rest. No code :O) > > > > > > Sorry if this isn't relevant > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 08:26:37 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:26:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Couldn't the licensing be offered without sending any personal information. Just like the Microsoft activation wizard does if you don't register. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon May 24 09:37:53 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:37:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Oh, absolutely... My ramblings bordered more on social commentary. I can continue on the OT list if you like...;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Couldn't the licensing be offered without sending any personal information. Just like the Microsoft activation wizard does if you don't register. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 09:50:15 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:50:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: Seems to be on topic to me if it has to do with offering an Access solution such as Drew suggested. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Oh, absolutely... My ramblings bordered more on social commentary. I can continue on the OT list if you like...;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Couldn't the licensing be offered without sending any personal information. Just like the Microsoft activation wizard does if you don't register. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Some thoughts to ponder. In your net-enabled registration are you disabling functionality until registration is complete? Do you allow for existing firewalls that block all outgoing packets by default? Personally, I've always considered it a horrible business practice to require individual registrations. By that I mean it is becoming painfully obvious just how valuable your personal info is. My reasoning is...if my personal info is that valuable, then I'll trade it for your software...no other compensation offered;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Again) Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, and so on? Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for you freelance developers? TIA for your responses. ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please redirect us to dba-Tech. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again Jim: Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the key. (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', and quit the app.) So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global variable to hold the month date and year: Public gintExpirationDay As Integer Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer Public gintExpirationYear As Integer Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the proper values: Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays the expiration: "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") or checking the expiration date ' Check to see if license has expired If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay) Then MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation Application.Quit End If Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a better way... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > Hi Rocky: > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > described to match your > expiry date.... > > Dim TheirDate as Date > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > TheirDate = Date > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > end if > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Drew: > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > one for > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > whether to > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > caused another problem. > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > DatePart("d",Date) > > ? > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > know > the > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > encoding to > > the format that you want, right? > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Jim: > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date which > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > expired. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > not > > matter > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > still a > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > translate > > > any date. > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > use > the > > US > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > a key > > and > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > setting > for > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > but > > can't > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > to do > > the > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > add > cases > > as > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Mon May 24 09:53:22 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:53:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Addresses Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCFE6E8A5@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> You can search the web for address formats. There are several sites that have formats listed. Christian Brock APT Program DSN 221-1936 703-325-1936 -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, 21 May 2004 17:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Addresses I always use a memo field for Addresses. The front end may present a list of countries, cities and provinces/states/cantons, and I store these too, but I assemble the address according to a template in the Countries table. It could be a by-product of the apps I've worked on, and useless to anyone else, but in Europe the most common address format places the street number after the street name (i.e. Amstrat 300). There are many similar variations from country to country or continent to continent, so I handle it with a template in the Countries table which looks something like this (for the Netherlands, say): \StreetName\ \StreetNumber\ \City\, \Province\ \PostalCode\ \Country\ Then it's trivial to use Replace() to dump the actual data into the template. I would appreciate input from non-North-Americans on this so I can add new templates for your countries. TIA, Arthur P.S. Anyone with specialized knowledge of city-states such as Singapore is especially invited to contribute! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:01:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:01:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF23@main2.marlow.com> We got our quote to actually fix the original code. It's difficult to explain to people how messed up the projects they have paid for are. In this case, the customer 'saw' that their code worked. Then they asked us to do something (update the data), then their code didn't work. I'm sure you see what I mean. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. Which did you get? In cases like this I think it is IMPERATIVE to let the client know just how ugly the original code was. They may want to go back to the original developer and get money back etc. Plus they just have to be in a position to understand what they got, and what they will be getting, and what it will take to get there. If you don't tell them all of that then there is no way for them to know that you didn't break the wonderful code that they already paid for! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I hear ya on that one! Let tell you a little about a 'job' I've been working on for a few months, off and on. I do a few 'sub-contract' jobs for my sister. She does web development, but specializes in Front End stuff. When she has BE stuff, she usually delegates that stuff to me. One such job came her way last October. http://www.edlevinjewelry.com . It's a jewerly wholesale (and no ladies, I can't get a discount...). Anyhow, they had some 'developer', and I use that term VERY loosely, build this product/shopping cart database. He did a few neat things, but had no real concept of relational databases, and quite frankly it seemed like he took a sledgehammer approach to many tasks. For example, the website displays products from the database. Each product has a price 'table' (if you log in as a merchant...sorry can't hand out accounts for testing...). This HTML 'table', was actually a memo field in a table. He had the entire price structure for each product as an HTML table in a memo field. I know I just repeated myself, but to me, that is the equivalent to storing an entire record of employee information in a memo field. Yes, it stores the data, but it is just a glob, no easy way to do anything with it other then just display it in it's entirety. I was asked to quote them on making their 'products' updatable. Apparently they would send an excel spreadsheet with updated product info to their 'developer', and a few weeks later, the data was updated on the web. Well duh, he was building HTML tables on an individual product basis! Go figure it took him three weeks to do! Now they were on the bends with this guy, so they wanted the ability to change the data themselves. So I looked into their system, tried desperately to not have a coronary when I saw what the original developer had done, and quoted them a very fair price to redesign their product information. So I built an actual 'relational' product system within their existing database. imported the old data (which was a job and a half!), and then built them an interface to allow them to actually update the data within the relational system. When I was done, they had a very simple interface to allow them to create/modify any price structure they wanted. Done, right? Nope, the client wasn't happy now, because even though they had a working product database, their shopping cart page was still using old data. As it turns out, this schmuck (sorry, it's the nicer term I have for this guy...) apparently built TWO systems in the database. What he displayed on the website to potential customers was in the memo field, but what the 'shopping cart' used for pricing was the most goofy and completely bizare '|' parsed text field system I have ever seen. So now I was being asked to update the shopping cart to use MY new data structure, for free. I was working for my sister, who was working for a guy, who actually had Ed Levin as a client. Somewhere between Ed Levin and myself, it went from 'we need everything to work', to 'the product pricing doesn't work'. My sister gave me a little more (about 20%) out of pocket, because it was a goof up on their part, but what took me a few weeks to 'build', now took me about two months to complete. It was a nightmare. What they had in the end worked, but I to cut my 'time' (since I was essentially working for free), I kept a lot of what the original guy had done. Because of that, there have been little 'issues' here and there, which his code does something very bizarre and unexpected when someone makes a little variance in data (like going from 2 to 3 characters on a 'product type'). Because I worked on it, they expect me to 'warrantee' HIS work. (That had an abrupt end put to it recently, I'll explain in a bit). Their way of thinking is that I am 'breaking' the original code, when I make a change to their site. What is really happening is that they original site had NO method of them being able to make changes or updates that they wanted. I built the system for them to do that, but a large portion of their site still uses the original code, which may or may not handle new oddities. (Remember, this guy took 3 weeks to change the price on something for them.....probably because he was recoding half the site every time he did it! ) The straw that broke the camel's back happened pretty recently. Their site has a 'storefinder'. We (my sister and I) were tasked to update their zipcode database. Apparently it was missing quite a few towns, and they wanted the most recent data they could get in there. So my sister found and purchased a zipcode database, with the latest information, and I imported it into their system. Case closed. Or so we thought. Their store finder then began to 'act funny'. They began to get repeats of stores in their results. Immediately we (my sister and I) were being accused of 'breaking' the original developers code. It was actually getting very ugly. (Which is why I prefer to do sub-contract stuff, because with rare exceptions don't have to get involved in the ugly stuff). Anyhow, I ported that entire 'system' into VB, and walked through it. I did this because I walked through the ASP mentally, and realized it would take a few lifetimes to try and figure it out in my head. What this guy did, was pull up a query that listed ALL of the stores, with their distance from the zipcode in question. (If a city/state was used, it retrieved the appropriate zipcode first). Then it looped through every returned record, and determined if it was closer then one of the 5 elements in an array. If it was, it replaced the 'furthest' element. IT did that for several thousand 'stores', then it went and sorted the results. (in the array). Ugly. Just plain ugly. Looking through the ASP, I just couldn't see what the issue was. When I ported it in VB, I was able to watch things a little easier, of course, and noticed that with the 'original' database, it was doing the distance calculation against a recordset with a few thousand records. However, the new database was doing that process to 80k+ records. Huh? Then I looked at the SQL that was pulling up that recordset. Okey, we have two tables, Stores and Zips. Both have a Zip field (zipcode), the Zips table has Lattitude and Longitude, and the store table has a store name, etc. Here is the original SQL (NO KIDDING!) SELECT ID, Lat, Lon, add1, add2, vis_addr FROM Zips, Stores WHERE Zips.Zip = Stores.Zip and Stores.is_active='YES' ID, add1, add2, and vis_addr are Store fields, Lat, Lon are Zip fields (and were used in a rectangular fashion to determine distance (which if you understand lats and longs, you can get close with distance just using 'square' distances, but to get actual distances you have to use spherical geometry, just another ugliness to the original code). Please note in the SQL statement above, the FROM statement has no join, but has two tables. There is a half baked attempt at a join in the WHERE clause. What the original @#$#@$^ had done, is just stripped the Zips table, so that a Zip code only showed up once, even though one zip code should show up multiple times for multiple towns. Anyhow, the fix was this: SQLstmt = "SELECT Stores.ID, Avg(Zips.Lat) AS AvgOfLat, Avg(Zips.Lon) AS AvgOfLon, First(Stores.add1) AS FirstOfadd1, First(Stores.add2) AS FirstOfadd2, First(Stores.vis_addr) AS FirstOfvis_addr " & _ "FROM Zips RIGHT JOIN Stores ON Zips.Zip = Stores.zip " & _ "WHERE (((Stores.is_active)='YES') AND ((Zips.Zip) Is Not Null)) " & _ "GROUP BY Stores.ID;" but it wasn't put in place until we had agreement on pay. Essentially we told them we were tired of being blamed for bad design on the original developers part, and we would either put their old data back (for a price) and walk away, or fix the problem for a price, and continue working with them. All because of a bad initial developer. Ugh. Wow, lengthy post, sorry! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, but only the context of bad performance made me look good. Anyone on this list would not have done it that way, and I would have been groping for optimizations of 10% rather than brain-dead-simple opts that deliver 100%. That said, there are guys and gals hanging a shingle out there who don't even comprehend what a PK or FK is, and why they are important. I've never been much of a fan of certs, but I'm beginning to rethink my stance on this. Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Oh, one more thing. When the problem I was hired to fix was explained to the previous developer, he quoted a MONTH. I quoted a day. I was wrong; it took three. I billed for two and the client happily paid. A MONTH! He must be operating from the premise that if the client is ignorant enough to accept the proposal, nuff said. I'm beginning not to like this business. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Congratulations :-) Arthur. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance of the whole thing across the net! They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. But this app has caused me to rethink that. More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all directions :) This is a strange business :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:01:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:01:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF24@main2.marlow.com> Really, I'm serious. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >I know I seem argumentative sometimes, ... No! Really? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:02:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:02:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF25@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! I could only wish! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I keep waiting for the shareholders (and BOD) to realize that Indian CEOs are just as capable and don't want 50 million a year for their services. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:07:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:07:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF26@main2.marlow.com> Okay, I'll let you know. Since it is going to be a 'web' registration, where the system registers itself, I think I'll be able to get away with almost any type of encryption. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) Drew: Don't know if I can do anything for you but let me know. I have a home brew way to create a key kind of like the key you get with windows or Office - this one has sixteen alpha numeric characters with a bunch of data fields encoded and a hash character. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format Aga in) > It's funny that you mention this. I have talked about a project with Mike > Mattys, where I would host a 'web registration' setup. I would provide a > module to place within your project, then it would interact with my website, > allowing you to setup registration 'flags', ie, system info, etc, along with > when it's registration expires, etc. It is not quite on a back burner, > somewhere in the middle of the stove right now, but I was thinking about > charging per registration, and splitting the income with the list. (I'm > sure it's not going to generate much, but it would be something....) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:38 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Licensing / Registration Stuff (was Date Format > Again) > > > Your code looks nice and I have no complaints on it. Rather I'm > wondering how you all feel about these automatic-internet installations > that seem to send your CD serial # to home office, and in most cases > prevent duplicate installations of the same CD. (If you have Enterprise > MSDN, for example, you can install everything a bunch of times without > issue, but if you only have Professional, it'll pop you on the second > install, which IMO SUCKS, but that's another issue.) > > What I'm getting at is, How many of your clients are net-ready? Is it > realistic in your environment to assume net connections and try a > registration scheme like Microsoft's, where the new install logs in > automatically, sends the serial number and whatever else, checks the > database to see if this serial number is allowed multiple installations, > and so on? > > Is this where registration is going? In general, and specifically for > you freelance developers? > > TIA for your responses. > > ATTN: moderator -- if I'm taking this discussion off-topic please > redirect us to dba-Tech. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:13 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > Jim: > > Here's how I solved it. I have two dates encoded in the key - one is > the license expiration date, the other is the date of last access. > Every time the user starts the app I update this last access date in the > key. > > (This stops the user from just rolling their clock back a year when the > expiration date rolls around. If the system date is less than the last > access date I give them a message that says 'adjust your system date', > and quit the app.) > > So, instead of trying to reconstruct the expiration and last access > dates correctly based on the user's regional settings I set up global > variable to hold the month date and year: > > Public gintExpirationDay As Integer > Public gintExpirationMonth As Integer > Public gintExpirationYear As Integer > Public gintLastAccessDay As Integer > Public gintLastAccessMonth As Integer > Public gintLastAccessYear As Integer > > and put the values in there when I decrypt them from the key. Then, > everywhere I need to do a test I use the DateSerial function with the > proper > values: > > Like on the caption of the label on the opening screen which displays > the > expiration: > "License Expires: " & Format(DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, > gintExpirationMonth, gintExpirationDay), "Short Date") > > or checking the expiration date > > ' Check to see if license has expired > If Date > DateSerial(gintExpirationYear, gintExpirationMonth, > gintExpirationDay) Then > MsgBox "License has expired. Please call Beach Access Software > (858) 259-4334.", vbExclamation > Application.Quit > End If > > Hopefully this will be a global solution to the problem. > > Thanks for all inputs, folks. But the subject's not closed if there's a > better way... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:46 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > Why not just store your expiry date in 'yyyymmdd' format. It can then > > be used as a date or string and will still validate and sort > > correctly. Then just DateSerial and Format their date, as previously > > described to match > your > > expiry date.... > > > > Dim TheirDate as Date > > Dim MyExpiryDate as String > > > > TheirDate = Date > > MyExpiryDate = "20040630" '30 June 2004 > > > > if str(format(DateSerial(Year(TheirDate), Month(TheirDate), > > Day(TheirDate)),"yyyymmdd")) >= MyExpiryDate then > > MsgBox "Your viewing time has expired, please contact.... > > end if > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > > - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:18 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > Drew: > > > > The date is encoded in three characters in the key - one for month, > > one > for > > day, one for year. I encode it from mm/dd/yy because I'm an > > ethnocentric American. But the system may be shipped anywhere in the > > world where they may be using little known date formats like dd/mm/yy. > > > > So when I uncode the expiration date from the key I have to know > > whether > to > > create an mm/dd/yy date or a dd/mm/yy date. I think. (There's > > probably a better way, but I don't know what it is.) > > > > In the Taiwan case, they were using the (popular if common) American > > date but had chosen yyyy-mm-dd for the short date format. Which > > caused another problem. > > > > So now I'm thinking that instead of assembling the expiration date I > > could just keep the month, day, and year in separate strings and use > > date serial to compare to the date serial of the system date? Is that > > > where you're trying to lead me? Like: > > > > DateSerial(varExpireYear, varExpireMonth, varExpireDay) < > > DateSerial(DatePart("yyyy",Date), DatePart("m",Date), > > DatePart("d",Date) > > > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > Again, why Rocky? A date is a date. If you are 'encoding' it, you > > > know > > the > > > format you have encoded it as. So if you are encoding mm/dd/yy, and > > > > you want to compare it to the local date, then just use DateSerial. > > > > > > It doesn't matter what region you are in, you are setting the > > > encoding > to > > > the format that you want, right? > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:23 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > Jim: > > > > > > One problem - I'm not using a regular date. I'm assembling the date > which > > > is encoded in a key. So to build the date, I need to know the > > > format to construct it in - mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy. > > > > > > I then compare it to the system date to see if the license has > > > expired. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:04 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rocky: > > > > > > > > Why do you not use this piece of code to check the date. It does > > > > not > > > matter > > > > what is the format of the date, in which region because a Day is > > > > still > a > > > > day, a Month is still a month and so on... The following code will > > > translate > > > > any date. > > > > > > > > if format(DateSerial(Year(Date), Month(Date), > > > > Day(Date)),"yyyymmdd") > MyCutoffDate then... > > > > > > > > Just pick your required result format. > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:06 AM > > > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Date Format Again > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > > > I thought I had the date format problem solved but in Taiwan they > > > > use > > the > > > US > > > > format but they've got their machines set to yyyy-mm-dd. > > > > > > > > The problem is that I have a license expiration date encrypted in > > > > a > key > > > and > > > > so the routine that decodes the key yields (among other things) > > > > the expiration date which I compare to the system date. > > > > > > > > So I guess I'm going to have to use an API to get the regional > > > > setting > > for > > > > short date format? I've been mucking around in the Knowledgebase > > > > but > > > can't > > > > seem to find what I want. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know the format for retrieving this item? > > > > > > > > I guess I will have to use a Select Case on the short date format > > > > to > do > > > the > > > > decryption to yield a short date in the local format. And just > > > > add > > cases > > > as > > > > I find more short date formats. > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 10:52:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:52:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF28@main2.marlow.com> I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also expressing something in a different media. As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 11:34:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:34:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: LOL That's because the "crap" developers often work cheap and the clients forget that you get what you pay for! There's never enough in the budget to do it right in the first place, but they always find enough to pay to have it fixed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various John, That sounds like 90% of the jobs I get called to do! It's very tiring work, having to refactor crap all the time. I'd kill for a chance to design & build a system from the ground up, but for some reason all the garbage developers seem to dominate that market, while those of us who know what they are doing seem to be the second-choice solution. I still haven't managed to figure out why that is so. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", when >dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in >too >many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application >designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned >economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - >a call >center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was >over 120 >fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, >Policy >Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus >dozens of >"lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a >"flat >file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they >just >started adding new fields onto the end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more >months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the >data etc. Had >I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing >task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again >to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they >would be >using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a >handful of >testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it >worked, >then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and >COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the >switch" >one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site >for the >next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that >arose, >to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants >calling the >database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db >running >until I could throw the switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could >very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just >doesn't >function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is >astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right >way >from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put down >some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women >and >children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the IT >side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense >to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the >business >couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of >Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I >discovered >Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could >no longer >satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were >my "state >of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received >"raves" >and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college >course >in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand >relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were >all >wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have >since >gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I >eventually >discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the >rule than >the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers >the vast >majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been >created by >the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely >shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a >lot about >the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are >using the >tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent >majority" of >Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day >basis. >This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was >designed >as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product >and the >creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has >evolved >far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, >personal >databases account for the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent >to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was >disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for >the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its >roots >and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the >practical >level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small >apps that, >however constructed, they can still get their arms around and >validate the >results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters >that have >grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT >professional can >no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. >Typically >these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for >pooper >scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if >Access >could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training >screens/magic to >ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to >developer >maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we >should >"colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even >harsher >terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic >to say >users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the >pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared >with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 >questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could >somehow >be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all >be >winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of >improvements >could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth >the >handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house >that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access >is as >much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so >alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the >department needs >such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a >little >about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental >perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going >to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but >for >awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that >that's >even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a >lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in >other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." >Those >folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and >laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect >to see, >so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without code. >Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap than >good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with >the >best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather >visit a >dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get a >certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have to >produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in >the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both >programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 11:40:23 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:40:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC42@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Remember speed govenors on cars learning drivers used to have before they were finally given their license? Maybe a nanny screen(s) that pop up saying in effect here is a better way to build this table, query, etc.. Kind of just-in-time lessons. OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 11:45:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:45:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Be NICE!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >*I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Hmm.... am I supposed to argue this point? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various EXCUSE ME?? *I'm* a doofus programmer who only charges $75 per hour ... Mainly because I do all my contracting on the side. I'm fully employed as a programmer building commercial applications, so everything else is sort of a mad money. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On Friday, May 21, 2004 at 11:16 AM, Of Arthur Fuller said (in part), Yes, it's money in my pocket -- about which I never complain. (Fuller's Second Law: money never arrives at an inopportune moment.) But part of me wishes that the client shouldn't have to re-pay for such low-level and obvious design decisions. The client got hosed, pure and simple, and it angers me that I'm in the same business as the previous developer. Arthur: Hello from Alan C. Lawhon. (It's been a while since we last conversed.) Part of the problem here, (if there IS a problem), is in the eternal desire of a certain type of management automaton to minimize cost. This attitude is best conveyed as: "Writing software is labor. Labor is just like any other raw material component in the manufacturing process. You find the cheapest 'labor cost' (per hour) and award the 'work' to that supplier." There is little appreciation for the fact that highly skilled software developers, (like you, William, Jim Lawrence, Charlotte Foust, Rocky Smolin, and John Colby), are qualitatively worth ten (or even twenty) times the cost of your "average Joe" unskilled programmer. The typical "cost conscious" manager will look at your rate, (say $150.00/hour), and compare it to some doofus "developer" who only charges $75.00/hour. (Of course, we all know which "doofus" gets the job.) You get called in only after the "cost conscious" manager discovers that his "cheap" programmer has actually turned out to be more expensive. Of course, the truth of the matter is that if this cost cutting manager had hired you to start with, (and payed your "exorbitant rate"), he would have wound up paying less - and getting more - for his money. However, some managers don't see it that way. They understand the cost of everything and the value of nothing. When such managers (and companies) get "hosed", you shouldn't feel bad about it. They deserve getting hosed - because they were so cheap - and stupid! I sense that this "cheaper cost" mindset is driving the movement of software development jobs to places like India. I have nothing against folks in India. They have as much right to work hard and try to improve themselves as you or I. However, the belief of some "shareholder value" obsessed CEOs that they're "cutting costs" [by moving jobs to India] may be shortsighted. When I hear CEOs of companies like Intel proclaiming, "We have to go overseas because there aren't enough skilled software developers here in the United States," I suspect that what they really mean is that there aren't enough "cheap" software developers here in the United States. To be totally objective about this, I don't think outsourcing software jobs [to India] is a threat to guys like you. For some reason, work always seems to find its way to highly skilled (and talented) developers. Alan C. Lawhon - (Semi-skilled developer) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 11:51:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:51:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 11:40:53 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:40:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC43@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I agree designing a "Picasso" database is an art but a lot of preople would be happy with a "paint by the numbers" landscape, nothing glamorous but workable nonetheless. If MS could develop a "paint by the numbers" kit life would be a lot better. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. For those who were wondering. It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in too many cases). Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical application designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned economically. I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the end of. Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing task. They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the switch. Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just doesn't function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right way from the start. On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very nervous that I might do the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women and children, here goes :-) I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of its use. With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? That's my story and I'm sticking to it Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental perspective -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a lot. And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without code. Yeah... Right... But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather visit a dentist. Susan H. I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 11:41:13 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:41:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC44@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Probably because they are the lowest bidder with the slickest presentation and the buyer doesn't have the expertise to figure out who is the most competent designer. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various John, That sounds like 90% of the jobs I get called to do! It's very tiring work, having to refactor crap all the time. I'd kill for a chance to design & build a system from the ground up, but for some reason all the garbage developers seem to dominate that market, while those of us who know what they are doing seem to be the second-choice solution. I still haven't managed to figure out why that is so. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:04:33 -0400 >"Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > >For those who were wondering. > >It actually came from the practice of certain South American >"leaders", when >dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas in >too >many cases). > >Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical >application >designed by the typical user often simply can't be transitioned >economically. > > >I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - >a call >center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was >over 120 >fields that represented about 5 different major entities (Insurer, >Policy >Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 etc.) plus >dozens of >"lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). They started with a >"flat >file" data dump from their client (the insurance company) which they >just >started adding new fields onto the end of. > >Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the >queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took >more months >to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the data >etc. Had >I been called in at the start it would have been a far less imposing >task. > >They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and >running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They >USED >that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > >I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly >the >correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it >again >to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms they >would be >using after the port. I had to run the normalization and have a >handful of >testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to ensure that it >worked, >then I had to train the users in the new system (it simply didn't and >COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I had to "throw the >switch" >one night porting the data, and make sure I was available on site >for the >next several weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that >arose, >to keep the system running and their client (and the claimants >calling the >database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db >running >until I could throw the switch. > >Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it >could >very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company just >doesn't >function without the database and the cost of "transitioning" is >astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a system the right >way >from the start. > >On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in >waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just >"disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was >very >nervous that I might do the same thing. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to >put down >some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the women >and >children, here goes :-) > > >I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from >the >finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT >the IT >side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self >defense >to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the >business >couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My >understanding of >Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over time, i.e. I >discovered >Access and relational databases when Excel "database" tables could >no longer >satisfy my needs. For several years Access wizards and macros were >my "state >of the art" and I was happy as a clam. My little databases received >"raves" >and made me the office guru to the point I decided to take a college >course >in Access. It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand >relational databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were >all >wrong except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have >since >gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I >eventually >discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the >rule than >the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers >the vast >majority of useful, results producing Access databases have been >created by >the user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major >insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of >personal >Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers >absolutely >shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who know a >lot about >the business but only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are >using the >tool to produce very useful results. This is the true "silent >majority" of >Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day >basis. >This should not surprise anyone because after all the product was >designed >as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the product >and the >creativity of developers such as those on this list that Access has >evolved >far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact remains, however, >personal >databases account for the vast majority of its use. > >With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent >intent >to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also was >disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish >list for >the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true to its >roots >and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean at the >practical >level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with the small >apps that, >however constructed, they can still get their arms around and >validate the >results. Its when these apps morph into mission critical monsters >that have >grown in size and complexity to the point where the non IT >professional can >no longer ensure valid results that things usually hit the fan. >Typically >these apps spin off into space before developers are called in for >pooper >scooper patrol. So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if >Access >could be given additional tools/wizards/internal training >screens/magic to >ease the transition in the database life cycle from user app to >developer >maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we >should >"colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even >harsher >terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic >to say >users should keep hands off and leave all the development to the >pros. I >believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases >by >hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect >"prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time >compared >with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to play 20 >questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools could >somehow >be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all >be >winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of >improvements >could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth >the >handoff of projects from user to developer? > > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone >in-house >that had to put together something because s/he was told to? Access >is as >much a user database as a development tool -- that's what makes it so >alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the >department needs >such and such, and you're not a database developer, know onlyh a >little >about Access, you might come up with crap from a developmental >perspective >-- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are >going >to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but >for >awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that >that's >even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens a >lot. > >And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the >geniuses in >other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can "do it." >Those >folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is inefficient and >laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what people expect >to see, >so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > >My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done >without code. >Yeah... Right... > >But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more >crap than >good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff with >the >best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd rather >visit a >dentist. > >Susan H. > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to >get a >certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even >have to >produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in >the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both >programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 12:10:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:10:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2B@main2.marlow.com> Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 12:18:51 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:18:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF28@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <038001c441b3$2f705960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > the vast majority of its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 24 12:22:22 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:22:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 12:45:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:45:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2C@main2.marlow.com> Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 12:47:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:47:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2D@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > the vast majority of its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 13:01:52 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:01:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <03df01c441b9$3167fbf0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Well, I'm with you Drew, but that's just my self image. Wouldn't we all rather see ourselves as creative crafters rather than coding drudges? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > Ah, but engineering is also an art. > > Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then > practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have > the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table > to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex > table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. > db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a > fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems > to me like science, or really engineering. > > But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for > the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information > the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely > design - like a commercial artist does. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take > a > > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. > So > > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > > expressing something in a different media. > > > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > > > Arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > (AccessD) > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > > > For those who were wondering. > > > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > > in too many cases). > > > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > > transitioned economically. > > > > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > > end of. > > > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > > less imposing task. > > > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > > switch. > > > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > > system the right way from the start. > > > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > > women and children, here goes :-) > > > > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > > the vast majority of its use. > > > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > > Jim Hale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > > developmental perspective > > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > > a lot. > > > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > > code. Yeah... Right... > > > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > > rather visit a dentist. > > > > Susan H. > > > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 13:02:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:02:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 13:09:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:09:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon May 24 13:19:29 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:19:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC45@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Hmmm, maybe I should dimension everything as a variant for max flexibility Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 24 13:35:59 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FD@TAPPEEXCH01> Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From lists at theopg.com Mon May 24 13:36:37 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:36:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm works for me matey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c441be$0c4b2720$8739fc3e@netboxxp> Scott... I just tried the first solution I offered in Access 97 and it works just fine. Just set a background colour (different to the forms background colour), then make the back style transparent and make sure the subform is set to continuos not datasheet. As mentioned by Charlotte, this only provides field highlighting not row highlighting, as can be achieved with conditional formatting in XP etc. Whichever field has the focus has its background made visible by access until it loses the focus... Second point... Sorry I missed the start of the thread, I'm not even sure who started it, good luck whoever you are :@) didn't mean to spark anything off, was just having a bit of fun as I was bored... It can be very frustrating having your hands tied by the limitations of a clients setup. I'm sure you will be making the most of whats available, particularly through subscribing to this very informative list. All the best Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 14:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb etoosimple? Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus From marcus at tsstech.com Mon May 24 13:42:43 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:42:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm worksfor me matey Message-ID: Mark, It changes the color of the controls to that of the background. This introduces more work to get them to look like they normally appear when not set to transparent. So for me to say that it doesn't work, isn't entirely true. It just doesn't work the way I want it to work. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm worksfor me matey Scott... I just tried the first solution I offered in Access 97 and it works just fine. Just set a background colour (different to the forms background colour), then make the back style transparent and make sure the subform is set to continuos not datasheet. As mentioned by Charlotte, this only provides field highlighting not row highlighting, as can be achieved with conditional formatting in XP etc. Whichever field has the focus has its background made visible by access until it loses the focus... Second point... Sorry I missed the start of the thread, I'm not even sure who started it, good luck whoever you are :@) didn't mean to spark anything off, was just having a bit of fun as I was bored... It can be very frustrating having your hands tied by the limitations of a clients setup. I'm sure you will be making the most of whats available, particularly through subscribing to this very informative list. All the best Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 14:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb etoosimple? Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:11:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:11:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2E@main2.marlow.com> I think part of it is self image, but I have seen a lot of code in my time, where I thought to myself....that's a paint by numbers project. I have also seen code where I thought to myself.....that is a real work of art. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Well, I'm with you Drew, but that's just my self image. Wouldn't we all rather see ourselves as creative crafters rather than coding drudges? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > Ah, but engineering is also an art. > > Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then > practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have > the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table > to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex > table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. > db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a > fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems > to me like science, or really engineering. > > But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for > the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information > the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely > design - like a commercial artist does. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take > a > > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. > So > > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > > expressing something in a different media. > > > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > > > Arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > (AccessD) > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > > > For those who were wondering. > > > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > > in too many cases). > > > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > > transitioned economically. > > > > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > > end of. > > > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > > less imposing task. > > > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > > switch. > > > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > > system the right way from the start. > > > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > > women and children, here goes :-) > > > > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > > the vast majority of its use. > > > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > > Jim Hale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > > developmental perspective > > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > > a lot. > > > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > > code. Yeah... Right... > > > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > > rather visit a dentist. > > > > Susan H. > > > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:11:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:11:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2F@main2.marlow.com> Really? I wonder where the limitation actually lies there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being >saved. I have found very few instances where there was an ironclad reason >to set the maximum field size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:15:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:15:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF30@main2.marlow.com> Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 14:23:44 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:23:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <038001c441b3$2f705960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > the vast majority of its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Mon May 24 14:31:41 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:31:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Charlotte, If that's true, then why do they spend so much energy trying *not* to pay for having it fixed??? ;) Steve -----Charlotte Foust's Original Message----- LOL That's because the "crap" developers often work cheap and the clients forget that you get what you pay for! There's never enough in the budget to do it right in the first place, but they always find enough to pay to have it fixed. Charlotte Foust From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 24 14:31:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:31:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: Message-ID: <002601c441c5$c723c730$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Reminds me of building web sites. Any fool can write a web page but takes an expert to design a web site! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the > performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the > art comes in, like tuning a guitar. > > There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is > not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. > There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their > craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully > qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. > > The same is true with programming and database design. > > IMHO > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:19 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. > db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a > fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems > to me like science, or really engineering. > > But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for > the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information > the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely > design - like a commercial artist does. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would agree > > that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong way. But > > the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, and create it. > > > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one very > > well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a good artist > > is going to draw something that is immediately recognizable as a horse. > > > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can take > a > > particular business application and actually get it into a good db design. > > In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing something in a > > different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, stories, are all thoughts > > and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' media, to a physical media. > So > > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > > expressing something in a different media. > > > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% science. > > Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as auto-repair. > > However, your more complex projects can easily be compared to a symphony, > > getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the database. > > As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published poems, > > screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, tabla-player and > > classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the connection. I used to > > subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. Long ago, I used to think > > programming was an art. Now I hold it in not much greater regard than > > auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is strictly science: for any > > given database there is one correct design, a collection of > > close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of incorrect designs. > > These stages correspond to the correct scientific theory, the > > almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > > > Arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > (AccessD) > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a art > > form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an artistic > > bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > > > For those who were wondering. > > > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American "leaders", > > when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected guerrillas > > in too many cases). > > > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > > transitioned economically. > > > > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, Physician2 > > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > > end of. > > > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > > less imposing task. > > > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly the > > correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test it > > again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the forms > > they would be using after the port. I had to run the normalization and > > have a handful of testers do double entry (in the new and the old) to > > ensure that it worked, then I had to train the users in the new system > > (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work like the old). Finally I > > had to "throw the switch" one night porting the data, and make sure I > > was available on site for the next several weeks to handle in real time > > the inevitable issues that arose, to keep the system running and their > > client (and the claimants calling the database users) happy. On top of > > all THAT I had to keep the old db running until I could throw the > > switch. > > > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > > system the right way from the start. > > > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was very > > nervous that I might do the same thing. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to put > > down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide the > > women and children, here goes :-) > > > > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from the > > finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT the > > IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in self > > defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side of the > > business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to me). My > > understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly over > > time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when Excel > > "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several years > > Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was happy as > > a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the office guru > > to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. It was at > > that point I realized I really didn't understand relational databases > > and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong except for the > > fact they produced useful results. While I have since gone on to develop > > my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually discovered VBA!) the > > point is I believe my evolution is more the rule than the exception. I > > am willing to wager that in terms of sheer numbers the vast majority of > > useful, results producing Access databases have been created by the > > user/power user cadre rather than developers. I know of a major > > insurance company whose IT group recently did a nose count of personal > > Access apps that were floating around the company. The numbers > > absolutely shocked them. Here at my company we have several people who > > know a lot about the business but only a little about Access. > > Nevertheless they are using the tool to produce very useful results. > > This is the true "silent majority" of Access users who are attempting to > > solve problems on a day to day basis. This should not surprise anyone > > because after all the product was designed as a personal app. It is a > > tribute to the strength of the product and the creativity of developers > > such as those on this list that Access has evolved far beyond a simple > > personal tool. The fact remains, however, personal databases account for > > the vast majority of its use. > > > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this mean > > at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble not with > > the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get their arms > > around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph into mission > > critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity to the point > > where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid results that > > things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off into space > > before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. So what is > > the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be given additional > > tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease the transition in > > the database life cycle from user app to developer maintainable code. > > While it might be fashionable to always say we should "colbyize" the > > users, on their side of the fence they have even harsher terms of > > endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not realistic to say users > > should keep hands off and leave all the development to the pros. I > > believe the more understanding users gain about relational databases by > > hands on efforts the better off we all are. Having users in effect > > "prototype" apps by taking a shot at building it also can save time > > compared with a blank sheet of paper where the developer is forced to > > play 20 questions trying to divine what users "really" want. If tools > > could somehow be developed to smooth the user-to-developer transition we > > would all be winners IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort > > of improvements could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve > > and smooth the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > > Jim Hale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you the > > department needs such and such, and you're not a database developer, > > know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with crap from a > > developmental perspective > > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, but > > for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know that > > that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it happens > > a lot. > > > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > > code. Yeah... Right... > > > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > > rather visit a dentist. > > > > Susan H. > > > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get > > a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have > > to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:31:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:31:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF31@main2.marlow.com> Well, if you are letting users enter data directly into your variables, then you probably should start out with a variant. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hmmm, maybe I should dimension everything as a variant for max flexibility Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Mon May 24 14:32:50 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:32:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word References: <40B1B3BB.10789.DA3B3@localhost> Message-ID: <003c01c441c6$133f44a0$f8c581d5@pedro> Hello Stuart, thanks for your help. When a file exists it makes suffixes like _ 1, _ 2 etc., but these are saved in My Documents (Dir$???). Can you give me a hand on how to use the doc properties in your code (i placed them in the code, but with no result)? Thanks Pedro Janssen For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then strFileNamePart = prop.Value Exit For End If Next ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] auto save in word > On 23 May 2004 at 23:03, Pedro Janssen wrote: > > > Hello Group, > > > > > > After merging data from access with use of properties in word, i use > > the code below to save a word document in a certain directory with the > > name; Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID").doc, by clicking a button. When > > the documentname in the directory already excist i would have the name > > changed to Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_1.doc or > > Bezoekrapport("BezoekrapportID")_2.doc etc, etc. Can this been done? > > > > > Just check for the existence of a file with the name and suffix and > increment it if necessary in a loop until you find a unique one. > > Dim flgSaved as Boolean > Dim strSuffix as String > flgSaved = False > strSuffix = "" > > Do > strFilename = > Dir$("W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ > & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" > If Dir$(strFilename) > " " Then ' File exists > strSuffix = str$(val(strSuffix)+1) ' use a larger suffix > Else > flg Saved = True > ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFilename > flgSaved = True > End If > Loop Until flgSaved > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 14:36:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:36:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF32@main2.marlow.com> "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Mon May 24 14:44:32 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:44:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Or as I often say (too often for my co-workers), The great thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. The bad thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. Steve -----Martin Reid's Original Message----- Reminds me of building web sites. Any fool can write a web page but takes an expert to design a web site! Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Mon May 24 14:59:56 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:59:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0A@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF0A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B2543C.50202@verizon.net> Drew, That is pure marketing genius. Solutions that works don't have to offer pretty screens and awesome logos. However developers I've taken over for, would have neat little logos, colors and maybe a cool set of macros to do something stupid like animation.... :| That sells, which is why Windows XP sells, and why all the new stuff is skinnable, because people like that kinda thing. It all depends on how you present it... DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/21/2004 9:27 AM: >Oh, and on a similar line, why are people willing to pay gobs of money for >garbage that doesn't work, but when presented with actual solutions, they >want to pay pennies on the dollar. ARG! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur, > >Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks >decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management >structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they >brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their >employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you >knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an >academic setting. > >Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it >takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is >because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone >who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked >on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 >to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give >them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy >*may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew >sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, >whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, >so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer >hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance >of the whole thing across the net! > >They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into >it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. > >Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and >bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had >no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > >Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in >theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every >transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran >compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the >doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB >to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the >s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > >I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I >suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. >But this app has caused me to rethink that. > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > >The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. >The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all >directions :) > >This is a strange business :) > >Arthur > > > -- -Francisco From lists at theopg.com Mon May 24 15:19:01 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:19:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmmworksfor me matey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c441cc$5a3c4690$8739fc3e@netboxxp> Never mind... Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 19:43 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmmworksfor me matey Mark, It changes the color of the controls to that of the background. This introduces more work to get them to look like they normally appear when not set to transparent. So for me to say that it doesn't work, isn't entirely true. It just doesn't work the way I want it to work. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MarkH Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-hmmmmm worksfor me matey Scott... I just tried the first solution I offered in Access 97 and it works just fine. Just set a background colour (different to the forms background colour), then make the back style transparent and make sure the subform is set to continuos not datasheet. As mentioned by Charlotte, this only provides field highlighting not row highlighting, as can be achieved with conditional formatting in XP etc. Whichever field has the focus has its background made visible by access until it loses the focus... Second point... Sorry I missed the start of the thread, I'm not even sure who started it, good luck whoever you are :@) didn't mean to spark anything off, was just having a bit of fun as I was bored... It can be very frustrating having your hands tied by the limitations of a clients setup. I'm sure you will be making the most of whats available, particularly through subscribing to this very informative list. All the best Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: 24 May 2004 14:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD]Highlightfieldbeingeditedinacontinuousform-in9simplesteps.-mayb etoosimple? Ken, Highlighting individual fields on a continuous form in Acc97 requires coding when the continuous form is a sub form. The solution Mark gave doesn't work for Acc97. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in the solution for check boxes. The "...- in 9 simple steps " is a continuation of an earlier post. As a courtesy to those who helped me, I provide the solution steps I took. These steps are then kept in the archive so that others may search for the solution later (including myself). I hate to be crass(and wouldn't normally reply to your comments), but look at the context of a solution before you knock it. I'm just trying to provide a polished interface for my end user given the constraints of the hardware and software on their machine. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon May 24 15:24:23 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:24:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs References: <002601c441c5$c723c730$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 15:33:53 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:33:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Because of the egg that splatters all over their faces when they do. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Charlotte, If that's true, then why do they spend so much energy trying *not* to pay for having it fixed??? ;) Steve -----Charlotte Foust's Original Message----- LOL That's because the "crap" developers often work cheap and the clients forget that you get what you pay for! There's never enough in the budget to do it right in the first place, but they always find enough to pay to have it fixed. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon May 24 15:35:22 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:35:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FE@TAPPEEXCH01> >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 15:35:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: All I know is that reducing the field sizes or removing one of the fields allowed the query to run. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Really? I wonder where the limitation actually lies there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being saved. I have found very few >instances where there was an ironclad reason to set the maximum field >size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 15:36:24 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:36:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 16:11:46 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:11:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF35@main2.marlow.com> WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 16:12:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:12:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF36@main2.marlow.com> Hmmmmm. If you ever run into again, and you remember, can you send it to me? I'd like to play around with it, see if I can figure out the limitation involved. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various All I know is that reducing the field sizes or removing one of the fields allowed the query to run. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Really? I wonder where the limitation actually lies there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not a valid argument on the phone numbers, Drew. International phone numbers are still not going to be more than about 15 characters, so why make the field 255? I've been bitten by 255 character fields in queries, so I tend to "limit" the field size to something reasonable for its contents. No one could ever remember a 255 digit phone number, so it isn't likely that a full size field would ever be needed for that. It's just lazy programming to default to 255. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If you assume you have an autonumber field, a couple date fields, a few foreign key fields together with 10 text fields and you place no restriction on the text field size, you will find that there are verbose users who are unable to save records because the non text fields use up some 50 to 100 bytes leaving space for only about 1950 characters in the record for ten text fields. Allowing 255 characters in ten text fields is fundamentally flawed with such a table. If you have 20 text fields, allowing 100 characters per field will result in record save failure. Statistically, there will be few situations where an entry person would enter the maximum amount of data in all 10 or20 text fields but the design does not prevent a record save failure unless some restriction is placed on a few of the fields. You could trap the error and offer to truncate fields or dump copies into a memo field but it is safer for people learning at a community college level to restrict text field length so that the total of all fields cannot exceed record size limits. In cases where a user needs to enter more text than some realistic limit, I find it useful to provide a notes memo field. I have also used a system where overflow data was placed in a separate table on a field by field basis and reconsituted in the display field. Back in the old days of A97 before SR1, memo fields were particularly buggy and I built a system that stored text in a table consisting of fields identifying the source table, the autonumber record ID the field and the overflow data. A similar system can be used to all text fields with 300 characters while preserving the ability to Union tables (can't with memo) and to sort on (the first part anyway) of memo fields (not that it makes sense to sort on them but...) If you invite users to enter 255 characters in a phone number field or a postal code field, I can guarantee that they will. And when you sort or filter on that kind of data, the results aren't promising. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Oh no, haven't forgotten, but if the limit is 255, that doesn't >actually affect the 2k character limit. Actually putting 255 >characters in will, but not the actual field size definition. However, >if you limit a field to 35 characters, because you think that's all a >user will need, and one day they need to put in 36 characters....NOW >you are preventing the record from being saved. I have found very few >instances where there was an ironclad reason to set the maximum field >size to something other then 255. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >"Unnecessary" size restrictions on fields ensure that a record can be >saved. > > If you have more than 8 text fields at 255 characters per field, >Access will refuse to save the record. Have you forgotten the the 2k >character limit on record size in mdb files? > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a > >valid topic. > > > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his > >MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer ), but it just kills me > >what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the > >assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary > >size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one > >instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying > >to do, and wrote some VBA to >have > >the same result. > > > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. > > > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon May 24 16:16:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:16:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF37@main2.marlow.com> Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon May 24 16:31:55 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:31:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000001c441d6$89e8aaf0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 16:43:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:43:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I imagine it's only indexing the first 255 characters. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Mon May 24 16:50:58 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:50:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF35@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000001c441d9$357b7ad0$6401a8c0@COA3> It indexes the first 255 characters. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 17:01:48 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:01:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <40B2FD6C.32685.156A0E@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 12:22, Brett Barabash wrote: > I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this > question to Drew and JC: > I'll answer it too. > If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your > forms and reports to display that size of data? > No. Forms: are formatted for expected input size. If you have longer data than expected, you can either enter the field and scroll through it or fo to datasheet view and widen the column. Reports: That's what "Can grow" is for. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 17:04:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:04:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40B2FE0D.4974.17DEB7@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 21:24, Martin Reid wrote: > Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? > Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file > and open that instead. > You need to set the report up to print to a PDF driver. Then instead of open it in preview, open it normally followed by a shell to your PDF reader app. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 24 19:07:34 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:07:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Can you union tables with memo fields and include the memo field in the union? It makes sense to me to be able to index the memo if it is not like other indexes that essentially store a sorted copy of the field in a hidden separate table. It would be handy if a designer could stipulate that only the first 10 or 20 or 40 or some other fixed number of initial text in the memo is the manner of indexing. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. >Can't have lookups assigned to them (). > >Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the >user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user >unnecessarily. There is a difference. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I know that I jumping in the middle but... > >By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set >it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons >not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out >that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way >down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for >setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are >coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to >255. > >Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the >flip side. > >Scott Marcus >TSS Technologies, Inc. >marcus at tsstech.com >(513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > >Good questions. > >First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide >that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for >setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, >not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a >limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, >barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) >example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer >(who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too >many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to >'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the >errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or >another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to >SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access >BE. One such limitation was a fie! >ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 >character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't >getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 >characters. > >Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely >redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about >many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. >However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen >about it. > >I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. >A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. >However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they >display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' >property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size >of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my >database. > >I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If >I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the >issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which >just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with >setting the fields to their max size. > >Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use >different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a >valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on >this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no >complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous >developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of >beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that >setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. > >So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to >you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust >me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought >up so far! > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon May 24 19:27:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:27:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: They truncate to 255 characters, I believe. There are a lot of gotchas with memo fields and queries. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Can you union tables with memo fields and include the memo field in the union? It makes sense to me to be able to index the memo if it is not like other indexes that essentially store a sorted copy of the field in a hidden separate table. It would be handy if a designer could stipulate that only the first 10 or 20 or 40 or some other fixed number of initial text in the memo is the manner of indexing. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. >Can't have lookups assigned to them (). > >Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give >the >user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user >unnecessarily. There is a difference. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I know that I jumping in the middle but... > >By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not >set >it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons >not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out >that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way >down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for >setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are >coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to >255. > >Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of >the >flip side. > >Scott Marcus >TSS Technologies, Inc. >marcus at tsstech.com >(513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > >Good questions. > >First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to >provide >that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for >setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, >not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a >limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, >barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) >example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer >(who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too >many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to >'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the >errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or >another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to >SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access >BE. One such limitation was a fie! >ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 >character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't >getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 >characters. > >Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely >redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about >many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. >However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen >about it. > >I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access >reports. >A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. >However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they >display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' >property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size >of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my >database. > >I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. >If >I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the >issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which >just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with >setting the fields to their max size. > >Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use >different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a >valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on >this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no >complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous >developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of >beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that >setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. > >So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power >to >you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust >me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought >up so far! > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 19:32:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:32:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them programmatically? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 19:36:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:36:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC42@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: >OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Ahhh, the summer internships. To be frank, their example code pretty much sucks. Ditto for their example databases, at least as far as structure goes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Remember speed govenors on cars learning drivers used to have before they were finally given their license? Maybe a nanny screen(s) that pop up saying in effect here is a better way to build this table, query, etc.. Kind of just-in-time lessons. OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Jim Hale From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 19:59:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:59:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:00:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:00:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <038001c441b3$2f705960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Well said! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:04:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:04:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Interesting. Is this a known bug? How did you discover that was the issue? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:05:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:05:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 20:02:04 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:02:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word In-Reply-To: <003c01c441c6$133f44a0$f8c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <40B327AC.6658.BA75C3@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 21:32, Pedro Janssen wrote: > Hello Stuart, > > thanks for your help. When a file exists it makes suffixes like _ 1, _ 2 > etc., but these are saved in My Documents (Dir$???). Yes, they would be the way I wrote that aircode :-( Try: Document.SaveAs FileName:= "W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" >Can you give me a hand > on how to use the doc properties in your code (i placed them in the code, > but with no result)? > Not sure what you are asking for here > > For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties > If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then > strFileNamePart = prop.Value > Exit For > End If > Next This is looking for a custom property called "BezoekRapportID" and setting strFileNamePart to the value of that property. Have you set an appropriate Name/Value in the the documents properties under the "Custom" tab? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:10:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:10:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Or as I like to say... Microsoft does my advertising for me... they tell Joe Store Owner they can design a database. He gets well into it, then realizes he can't so he calls me. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Pickering, Stephen Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Or as I often say (too often for my co-workers), The great thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. The bad thing about Access is that just about anyone can build a database application. Steve -----Martin Reid's Original Message----- Reminds me of building web sites. Any fool can write a web page but takes an expert to design a web site! Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:11:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:11:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: There are printer drivers that turn whatever you send them into a pdf. That's what I used. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:15:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:15:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FE@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 24 20:15:19 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:15:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances References: Message-ID: <00ec01c441f5$beab8040$48619a89@DDICK> HI John I am not 100% if this is the same thing. I had an installed Access app on a clients XP machine Each time they would open a the app then navigate to a particular form that had a sub form in it nothing visible would happen. But when they would close the app (And Access of course) and want to start (double-click the icon) the app again there would be strange behaviours. IE the app would fail at one level or another. I would shut down that instance of access and the hit CTL+ALT+DELETE. That would show up the errant (orphaned) foot print of msaccess.exe - still running in the processes list.Even though there were none visible (task bar or visible apps) It would have to be stopped from the Processes Window - no other way I tried to code and recode around this for ages - no success Both I and the client just put up with it. Then just last week he agreed it was his computer causing these errant (orphaned) footprints because the same thing had happened to him whilst he was in Word - IE a Word footprint was left 'running' after closing Word - Of course you can only see this in the processes of Task Manager. So...Installed the Latest Office Service pack and now all is well. This had pi**ed me off for about 5 months and the customer put up with it (thankfully) So if you are having the same problems try the latest Office Service Pack for your version. Not very technical but it fixed it. See ya DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances > I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", > i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next > merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen > often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is > causing them, how they were opened etc. > > Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them > programmatically? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accma at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 20:18:49 2004 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, CMA) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:18:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print Message-ID: Hi Guys! I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " Lachapelle # " Did anyone encountered that problem before! Thanks a lot! Annie Courchesne, CMA From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 20:23:05 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:23:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE5FC@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <40B32C99.26760.CDB2FF@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 20:59, John W. Colby wrote: > Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When > I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have > claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they > wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what > they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip > could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city > and country. > Was it only in October last year that someone said:: "LOL. Not true, I am a HUGE fan of internationalization... where it makes sense. I don't suppose I've ever mentioned that I, PERSONALLY, have never needed it?" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 20:50:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:50:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B332EF.29514.E6733D@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accma at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 20:56:22 2004 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, CMA) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:56:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print In-Reply-To: <40B332EF.29514.E6733D@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Already tried that. All fonts does the same thing! The worst part is that I remember having this problem a while back... but my memory is currently failing me! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Stuart McLachlan Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:50 A : Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Objet : Re: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 20:58:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:58:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances In-Reply-To: <00ec01c441f5$beab8040$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Thanks, always good advice. The client is not too religious about installing service packs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances HI John I am not 100% if this is the same thing. I had an installed Access app on a clients XP machine Each time they would open a the app then navigate to a particular form that had a sub form in it nothing visible would happen. But when they would close the app (And Access of course) and want to start (double-click the icon) the app again there would be strange behaviours. IE the app would fail at one level or another. I would shut down that instance of access and the hit CTL+ALT+DELETE. That would show up the errant (orphaned) foot print of msaccess.exe - still running in the processes list.Even though there were none visible (task bar or visible apps) It would have to be stopped from the Processes Window - no other way I tried to code and recode around this for ages - no success Both I and the client just put up with it. Then just last week he agreed it was his computer causing these errant (orphaned) footprints because the same thing had happened to him whilst he was in Word - IE a Word footprint was left 'running' after closing Word - Of course you can only see this in the processes of Task Manager. So...Installed the Latest Office Service pack and now all is well. This had pi**ed me off for about 5 months and the customer put up with it (thankfully) So if you are having the same problems try the latest Office Service Pack for your version. Not very technical but it fixed it. See ya DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances > I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", > i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next > merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen > often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is > causing them, how they were opened etc. > > Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them > programmatically? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 24 21:01:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:01:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B32C99.26760.CDB2FF@localhost> Message-ID: LOL. Yep. And so far internationalization (as defined by our European friend) has never reared it's ugly head. He was talking about designing all my stuff so that if run in Finland it would just work. I'm talking about putting a country field in the app. Not exactly the same thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On 24 May 2004 at 20:59, John W. Colby wrote: > Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When > I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have > claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they > wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what > they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip > could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city > and country. > Was it only in October last year that someone said:: "LOL. Not true, I am a HUGE fan of internationalization... where it makes sense. I don't suppose I've ever mentioned that I, PERSONALLY, have never needed it?" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accma at sympatico.ca Mon May 24 21:05:36 2004 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, CMA) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:05:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print SOLVED In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Guys, I solved the problem. I think it only occurs on a French system. Anyways, if any of you are interested in the solution, here is the article on MKB http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;fr;469516&Product=acc2000F ra This problem is because of language set on the computer... if you can believe that!!! Thanks a lot! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Annie Courchesne, CMA Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:56 A : Access Developers discussion and problem solving Objet : RE: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print Hi Stuart, Already tried that. All fonts does the same thing! The worst part is that I remember having this problem a while back... but my memory is currently failing me! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Stuart McLachlan Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:50 A : Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Objet : Re: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:17:02 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:17:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B2543C.50202@verizon.net> Message-ID: Good points.:-) It is easy for an unknowledgeable client to be fooled by flashy graphics. There is an old saying that goes something like: Presentation is perception and perception is reality. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Drew, That is pure marketing genius. Solutions that works don't have to offer pretty screens and awesome logos. However developers I've taken over for, would have neat little logos, colors and maybe a cool set of macros to do something stupid like animation.... :| That sells, which is why Windows XP sells, and why all the new stuff is skinnable, because people like that kinda thing. It all depends on how you present it... DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/21/2004 9:27 AM: >Oh, and on a similar line, why are people willing to pay gobs of money for >garbage that doesn't work, but when presented with actual solutions, they >want to pay pennies on the dollar. ARG! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:09 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Arthur, > >Certification isn't the answer. About 30 years ago all the major banks >decided that they absolutely had to have MBAs in their management >structure because these guys must know what they were doing. So they >brought in a bunch of whiz kids who lasted a year or two before their >employers got wise to the fact that getting a degree didn't mean you >knew how to do anything except take tests and defend a thesis in an >academic setting. > >Programming is something of an art, or at the least, a craft, and it >takes time and practice to perfect it. Most of the bad stuff you see is >because Access has always been marketed as an end user tool, so everyone >who can use a wizard thinks of themselves as a developer. I once worked >on overhauling an Access project that a major company had paid $250,000 >to a "developer" to write. I told them I would have been happy to give >them a program that didn't work for a tenth of that! The guy >*may* have know VB, given the way some of it was written, but he knew >sweet damn all about Access/Jet and SQL. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Just a note on this bloat subject. I acquired a new client recently, >whose DB was 220 MB. They burned me a CD containing same last weekend, >so I could work on it while they were closed. Dumbass previous developer >hadn't even split it into FE-BE! Everyone was loading the same instance >of the whole thing across the net! > >They had a problem which I fixed. I estimated a day but once I got into >it, 3 days elapsed. I split the difference and billed for 2 days. > >Upon inspection of said database, I discovered some incredible and >bizarre anomalies/stupidities. Several tables of critical importance had >no PKs and no FK indexes! Unbelievable! > >Anyway... I split the datbase, then made some mods to the BE which in >theory ought to have almost doubled it (i.e. I made copies of every >transaction table, but not the static lookup tables). Then I ran >compact/repair, and the db came down to (gasp) 40 MB. This includes the >doubled tables and the new PK and FK indexes that I added. From 200+ MB >to 40 MB -- and this with doubled transaction tables. Once we get the >s**t sorted out, I expect that it will come down to 25 MB. > >I have never programmed in an automatic compact/repair before -- I >suppose because I tend to be available and do it as a matter of course. >But this app has caused me to rethink that. > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > >The up side is, it's really easy to look good in a situation like this. >The performance gains were spectacular. I got high-fives from all >directions :) > >This is a strange business :) > >Arthur > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Mon May 24 21:26:26 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <000801c441ff$b2fdf430$6401a8c0@delllaptop> I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, California 1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. 2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd 3. Who would be attending? 4. Who would like to present? 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? 6. Who has a projector we can use? JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:27:08 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:27:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <000001c441d6$89e8aaf0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: Is not that basically the same thing? Just wondering Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:37:19 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:37:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The way the government office that I am working in does. My name is JimLawre That about sums it up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:37:16 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:37:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have ran into the same problem...I believe it is a timing issue. If you get ahead of the document processing, the instance of Word does not close even though you have apparently exited properly. I do not have the code here but I believe I resolved it by running a DoEvent with a 'borrow' piece of API sample code, from Leban's web site that watched for instances of Word and a global variable. (Now that I have given you such an accurate description, the rest should be easy....) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:32 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them programmatically? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon May 24 21:41:38 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:41:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: <000801c441ff$b2fdf430$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <055901c44201$cdac7b10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I'm in. Except for Aug. 7. I'm in North Carolina (don't ask). Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Hecht" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > California > > > > 1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > 2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 > Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > 3. Who would be attending? > > 4. Who would like to present? > > 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > 6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > JOE HECHT > > LOS ANGELES CA > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 24 21:40:06 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:40:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Memory is the second thing to go but I can not remember the first. A client had a problem with seeing a particular text font and it turned out the font size had somehow been reduced it 2 point font. We had no idea how that happened but just increase the size and all was well again. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, CMA Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print Hi Stuart, Already tried that. All fonts does the same thing! The worst part is that I remember having this problem a while back... but my memory is currently failing me! Annie Courchesne, CMA -----Message d'origine----- De : accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]De la part de Stuart McLachlan Envoye : 24 mai 2004 21:50 A : Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Objet : Re: [AccessD] Numeric caracters do not print On 24 May 2004 at 21:18, Annie Courchesne, CMA wrote: > Hi Guys! > > I know I had this problem 2 or 3 years ago, but I can't recall how I fix the > problem! Maybe somebody can help. I have a A2K database running on a WinXp > computer. Whenever I print a report (any reports!), all the numbers do not > print. And I don't mean only the numeric field. I mean all numbers! For > instance, if a text field as the value "179 Lachapelle # 3" it prints " > Lachapelle # " > Sounds like a problem with a corrupt font file ( or using a font with the numeric characters undefined) on the WinXP computer. What hapens if you use a different font for the textboxes. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon May 24 21:46:44 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF2D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0@rock> This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read you. I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would > agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong > way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, > and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one > very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a > good artist is going to draw something that is immediately > recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can > take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db > design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing > something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, > stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' > media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% > science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as > auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be > compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the > database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published > poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, > tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the > connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. > Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not > much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is > strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, > a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of > incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific > theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a > art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an > artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American > "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected > guerrillas in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, > Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly > the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test > it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the > forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the > normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the > new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the > users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work > like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting > the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several > weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep > the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the > database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db > running until I could throw the switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was > very nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to > put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide > the women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from > the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT > the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in > self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side > of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to > me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly > over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when > Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several > years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was > happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the > office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. > It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational > databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong > except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since > gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually > discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule > than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer > numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access > databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than > developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group > recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating > around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my > company we have several people who know a lot about the business but > only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to > produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of > Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day > basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product > was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the > product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list > that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact > remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of > its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this > mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble > not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get > their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph > into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity > to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid > results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off > into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. > So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be > given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease > the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer > maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we > should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even > harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not > realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the > development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain > about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all > are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at > building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper > where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine > what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to > smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners > IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements > could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth > the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you > the department needs such and such, and you're not a database > developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with > crap from a developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, > but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know > that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it > happens a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to > get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even > have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon May 24 21:50:33 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:50:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c44203$0c7e37b0$6601a8c0@rock> I have never yet seen a case where denormalization is correct, except in OLAP apps, which are fundamentally different that OLTP apps. I have been overruled by higher-ups on this point several times, and never once been convinced of their correctness. Show me a case in an OLTP app where denormalization is correct, and demonstrate why it is correct as opposed to the "logically correct" model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim From artful at rogers.com Mon May 24 21:52:21 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:52:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000601c44203$4d208b10$6601a8c0@rock> For this work I always rely on PDFMail. Google it. It's cheap and works brilliantly. Get the developer's version and you're home free. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Mon May 24 21:57:53 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:57:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000801c441ff$b2fdf430$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <200405250258.i4P2wJ3s014724@mxsf24.cluster1.charter.net> Joe Hecht said: > I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los > Angeles, California > 3. Who would be attending? Kathryn Bassett > 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? So far, all August Saturdays are open for me except the first one (my brother's getting married that day). > 6. Who has a projector we can use? Slight possibility I might be able to come up with one, but too early to tell. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon May 24 22:46:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:46:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <40B32C99.26760.CDB2FF@localhost> Message-ID: <40B34E34.22415.150F809@localhost> On 24 May 2004 at 22:01, John W. Colby wrote: > LOL. Yep. And so far internationalization (as defined by our European > friend) has never reared it's ugly head. He was talking about designing all > my stuff so that if run in Finland it would just work. I'm talking about > putting a country field in the app. And "internationalizing" it by allowing formats for the zip/postal code other than US :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 00:17:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:17:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: Is it not as simple as using a call to GetObject? Public Sub KillWord() Dim objWord as Word.Application Set objWord = GetObject(, "Word.Application") If objWord Is Nothing Then Else objWord.Close Set objWord = Nothing End If End Function You may need to iterate the Word documents collection and close those first. It could get ugly if the user has his own instance of Word open and you start killing off his documents. I don't use conventional merges relying on automation instead and have yet to have a problem with closing Word instances. Your best bet so as not to get a user instance is to use GetObject to secure pointers to all user instances before you begin your merge and then kill instance where the object is not the same as one of the user instances. For automation, it is usually enough to CreateObject and check that it is nothing when you are done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get "orphaned", >i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This prevents the next >merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the orphans, they don't >happen >often but they are occurring. I don't know how to troubleshoot what is >causing them, how they were opened etc. > >Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them >programmatically? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 25 01:45:38 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:45:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD910@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I was not folowing the thread but Word like Access but unlike Outlook is Multi Instance... Meaning You can have 5 times word.exe loaded, if this function would work how you gonna know which instance you gonna kill? Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Is it not as simple as using a call to GetObject? Public Sub KillWord() Dim objWord as Word.Application Set objWord = GetObject(, "Word.Application") If objWord Is Nothing Then Else objWord.Close Set objWord = Nothing End If End Function You may need to iterate the Word documents collection and close those first. It could get ugly if the user has his own instance of Word open and you start killing off his documents. I don't use conventional merges relying on automation instead and have yet to have a problem with closing Word instances. Your best bet so as not to get a user instance is to use GetObject to secure pointers to all user instances before you begin your merge and then kill instance where the object is not the same as one of the user instances. For automation, it is usually enough to CreateObject and check that it is nothing when you are done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get >"orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This >prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the >orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know >how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. > >Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them >programmatically? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 25 03:55:11 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:55:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD914@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Maybe you can access the Active-X controls of acrobat from Access. I noticed having Acrobat Distiler as an Active-X but don't know if you can use it in VBA. I tought to have read something somewhere about VBA controls for Acrobat. But, I supose they (the writing ones) will not be part of Acrobat Reader. You probably need the Acrobat writer (as I have)) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFs On 24 May 2004 at 21:24, Martin Reid wrote: > Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? > Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a > PDF file and open that instead. > You need to set the report up to print to a PDF driver. Then instead of open it in preview, open it normally followed by a shell to your PDF reader app. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 25 04:19:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:19:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <002601c441c5$c723c730$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <001d01c441cd$1ad2cbe0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <16010123837.20040525111923@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Have a look here: http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?WebPageID=450 and http://membres.lycos.fr/jppusterla/pages/plug_ins_acrobat_n.html /gustav > Date: 2004-05-24 22:24 > Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? > Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file > and open that instead. > Martin From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 25 04:23:21 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <016b01c43cee$f71be520$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040525092321.98941.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Don't know if this was solved or not but this does the trick. Here's part of my VB code wich attaches a file to an e-mail. It makes use of the MAPISESSION component : frmMain.MAPISession1.UserName = ProfileName frmMain.MAPISession1.NewSession = True frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOn With frmMain.MAPIMessages1 .SessionID = frmMain.MAPISession1.SessionID .Compose .MsgIndex = -1 .RecipAddress = Recip .ResolveName .MsgSubject = strMail_Titel .MsgNoteText = NoteText If Bestand <> "" Then .AttachmentIndex = .AttachmentCount .AttachmentPathName = Bestand .AttachmentType = mapData .AttachmentPosition = Len(.MsgNoteText) - 1 .AttachmentName = Bestand End If .Send End With frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOff frmMain.MAPIMessages1.SessionID = -1 SendMailOrder = True LogStatus "Mail verstuurd (" & strMail_Titel & ")" Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 25 04:29:12 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <25766734.1083853460081.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <20040525092912.86935.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, sorry but I do not know how to do this (I did it once in C# but that's a whole diff ballgame). You could try http://asp101.aspin.com/ or http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/vbscript_ref_functions.asp?output=print http://www.asptutorial.info/ http://4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/amb/amb.beginnerasp.shtml HTH. Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue May 25 04:39:42 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 02:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox In-Reply-To: <20040525092912.86935.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040525093942.2198.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> HAHAAHAHA I found it!! I retrieved the source code from www.google.com See below. The following code does the trick: It references a FORM named f wich has an object named q (the searchbox (input)) Somewhere in the code there's a line:
and a line that says: I think now you can figure it out! Regards, Sander PS: ALWAYS USE GOOGLE TO FIND THE ANSWER :-) Google
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S D wrote: Hi Paul, sorry but I do not know how to do this (I did it once in C# but that's a whole diff ballgame). You could try http://asp101.aspin.com/ or http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/vbscript_ref_functions.asp?output=print http://www.asptutorial.info/ http://4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/amb/amb.beginnerasp.shtml HTH. Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue May 25 04:48:12 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:48:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Message-ID: <26209081.1085478492407.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Sander Figured it out, after you put the input boxs on the screen but still within the Form tags just put Thanks anyway Paul Message date : May 25 2004, 10:32 AM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT-HTML Setting Focus To A TextBox Hi Paul, sorry but I do not know how to do this (I did it once in C# but that's a whole diff ballgame). You could try http://asp101.aspin.com/ or http://www.w3schools.com/vbscript/vbscript_ref_functions.asp?output=print http://www.asptutorial.info/ http://4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/amb/amb.beginnerasp.shtml HTH. Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, Sorry about the HTML OT's but don't know where else to ask. I now have a working logon page which queries an Access database. What I would like is when the logon page appears is to have the focus set to Username. Does anyone have any idea how I do this ? Also can anyone recommend a good HTML/ASP list ? Thanks in advance Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:13:02 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:13:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I know those limitations. I was making a point. Much like suggesting setting everything to variant to cover the bases. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:21:14 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:21:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Why wouldn't you write code to handle this exception? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:23:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:23:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Tue May 25 06:23:40 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:23:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4424a$bb7f1ee0$cc0aa845@hargrove.internal> It isn't in a sense... Think about it... If you export a report to Excel, you don't print the whole report to Excel. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Is not that basically the same thing? Just wondering Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:37:58 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:37:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:45:08 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:45:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. Which is fine. How do you know when it will be greater than 255? Some limit must be determined, otherwise we should just set all the fields to memo, because in the future someone may want to make a change. Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:48:10 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:48:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? You don't. The user does or they call you and you fix the issue. How often is this going to happen? Are we talking about .01% of the data entry on that field? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 06:51:25 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:51:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <<... My name is JimLawre That's funny. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various The way the government office that I am working in does. My name is JimLawre That about sums it up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue May 25 07:55:02 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:55:02 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD91D@stekelbes.ithelps.local> And exporting will limit your formatting posibilities.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs It isn't in a sense... Think about it... If you export a report to Excel, you don't print the whole report to Excel. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Is not that basically the same thing? Just wondering Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to a PDF file... Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly to PDF? Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a PDF file and open that instead. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 07:57:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:57:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B3CF59.31134.3496DA3@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Tue May 25 08:27:32 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:27:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Great points, Stuart. Plus, there's the explanations and documentation of the changes. And the clients who don't want to pay for the modifications, even when they prescribe the changes. I once had a client that requested a very complex report. After doing the analysis, documenting the business rules, and discussing the mock-ups, I wrote the report. The client said the report wasn't right, that the calculations were wrong. So, I went over the business rule document with the client, and the client changed several rules. Of course, the client said these weren't changes -- I had gotten it wrong. So I re-did the business rules, and gave them the new report. Again, it was "wrong". Again, we went over the business rules. Again, I revised the report. This went through several iterations. Each time it was wrong, and it was my fault because I just didn't understand the business rules, or didn't get them right, according to the client. The last time they revised (or "corrected") the business rules, the new calculations looked familiar. Sure enough, the business rules now set by the client were the original business rules from the very first iteration of the report. I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them that we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business rules this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good laugh, and learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should have gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to them. I learned a valuable lesson. I quit consulting and went back into Corporate America. The client is a little more understanding when it's yourself. Don't assume that the client will pay for any and all changes they request down the road. Some will, but some will always try to get something for nothing. Steve -----Stuart McLachlan's Original Message----- On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 08:27:59 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:27:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I'll answer your question with a question... Do you stick the client with a bill to modify the report because it no longer looks correct (or goes to a second page for 1 character) when the data makes the fields expand? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 25 08:29:48 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:29:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B3CF59.31134.3496DA3@localhost> References: <40B3CF59.31134.3496DA3@localhost> Message-ID: <13125148942.20040525152948@cactus.dk> Hi Stuart well, you and several contributors to this thread - with Arthur and Scott as the bright exceptions - should join a club of weeping school girls. Now come on and get professional as is the general attitude of our fellow listers. If you design an app wrongly, you'll of course have to fix it; if some standard is changed, say postal codes for a country goes from x to y format and you couldn't know, the client has to pay. If your app is out in big numbers, you would offer an update. Since when has distributing an update been a problem? /gustav > On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: >> >> Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state >> abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll >> make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. >> > And who pays for that work to be done? > Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that > shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time > yourself. > What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different > places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the > sites. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 25 08:34:04 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:34:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14125404720.20040525153404@cactus.dk> Hi Stephen You'll meet clients of this type from time to time. The only cure is to dump them as soon as you notice their true attitude - which probably is different from the nice attitude when signing the original deal. /gustav > I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them that > we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business rules > this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good laugh, and > learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my > fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should have > gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to > them. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 08:43:29 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:43:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Stephen, Right or wrong, your contract with the client determines who pays. Are you working by the hour or by the project? If the client won't pay for your time when they agree to pay by the hour, that would be them breaking the contract. These are the type of clients you should get rid of if possible. You must weigh the benefits of keeping the contract vs. free work. Such is the nature of contract work. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Pickering, Stephen Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Great points, Stuart. Plus, there's the explanations and documentation of the changes. And the clients who don't want to pay for the modifications, even when they prescribe the changes. I once had a client that requested a very complex report. After doing the analysis, documenting the business rules, and discussing the mock-ups, I wrote the report. The client said the report wasn't right, that the calculations were wrong. So, I went over the business rule document with the client, and the client changed several rules. Of course, the client said these weren't changes -- I had gotten it wrong. So I re-did the business rules, and gave them the new report. Again, it was "wrong". Again, we went over the business rules. Again, I revised the report. This went through several iterations. Each time it was wrong, and it was my fault because I just didn't understand the business rules, or didn't get them right, according to the client. The last time they revised (or "corrected") the business rules, the new calculations looked familiar. Sure enough, the business rules now set by the client were the original business rules from the very first iteration of the report. I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them that we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business rules this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good laugh, and learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should have gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to them. I learned a valuable lesson. I quit consulting and went back into Corporate America. The client is a little more understanding when it's yourself. Don't assume that the client will pay for any and all changes they request down the road. Some will, but some will always try to get something for nothing. Steve -----Stuart McLachlan's Original Message----- On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > > Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state > abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll > make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. > And who pays for that work to be done? Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time yourself. What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the sites. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 09:03:14 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:03:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances Message-ID: Which is why I suggest you explicitly create a Word instance and get an object pointer to it and then use that instance for your purposes. If you are working in a RAM bound system (there was a time when all my users ran WinNT4, Office97 on 32 megabyte machines and I only created a Word object if it didn't already exist and killed it only if my code created that instance), additional considerations may apply. If you simply create new instances for your code, you can compare object instances with any you get from CreateObject and only destroy it if they are the same. The problem John is likely having is that there is an unclosed object reference to a Word Table or Selection or Bookmark or Document arising from the merge. This approach will warn you that you have unclosed instances hanging about and you may as well make them visible so the user can kill them rather than notifying them and having him go to task manager. As long as the instance is still hanging around you can still use GetObject to reuse the one you can't kill rather than keep on creating additional instances. Again, this works well with automation and I can't really comment on conventional merges because I don't use them. I occasionally had failures to kill Word application instances before I fixed my error handling to close all objects in the exit code of all procedures but have not had such a problem using automation for several years. I know this can't be a problem with John's code so I assume it's something to do with merging to Word. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Erwin Craps - IT Helps" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:45:38 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc4-f40.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.176]) by mc4-s14.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 24 May 2004 23:48:12 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc4-f40.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 24 May 2004 >23:46:44 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i4P6jvQ17763;Tue, 25 May 2004 01:45:57 -0500 >Received: from potassium.iops.versanet.be ([212.53.4.31])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4P6jOQ16981for >; Tue, 25 May 2004 01:45:24 -0500 >Received: from stekelbes.ithelps.be (cust70-2.dsl.versadsl.be >[62.166.70.2])by potassium.iops.versanet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id >717663EE26for ;Tue, 25 May 2004 08:45:58 >+0200 (CEST) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+sozsxmmF3QPPwuwgjFK2muXiY4VLwGkv7s= >content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Message-ID: ><46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD910 at stekelbes.ithelps.local> >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 >X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [AccessD] Orphaned >program instances >Thread-Index: AcRCGkkvfF2BjiIjR1epfrpk2GrscAACUy7g >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi4P6jOQ16981 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 06:46:44.0897 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0B4B8110:01C44224] > > >I was not folowing the thread but Word like Access but unlike Outlook is >Multi Instance... > >Meaning You can have 5 times word.exe loaded, if this function would work >how you gonna know which instance you gonna kill? > >Erwin > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:18 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Orphaned program instances > >Is it not as simple as using a call to GetObject? > >Public Sub KillWord() > > Dim objWord as Word.Application > > Set objWord = GetObject(, "Word.Application") > If objWord Is Nothing Then > Else > objWord.Close > Set objWord = Nothing >End If >End Function > >You may need to iterate the Word documents collection and close those >first. > It could get ugly if the user has his own instance of Word open and you >start killing off his documents. I don't use conventional merges relying >on automation instead and have yet to have a problem with closing Word >instances. Your best bet so as not to get a user instance is to use >GetObject to secure pointers to all user instances before you begin your >merge and then kill instance where the object is not the same as one of the >user instances. For automation, it is usually enough to CreateObject and >check that it is nothing when you are done. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "John W. Colby" > > > >I am doing mail merge and have times when instances of Word get > >"orphaned", i.e. are loaded but not visible on the task bar. This > >prevents the next merge cycle. I don't think that I am causing the > >orphans, they don't happen often but they are occurring. I don't know > >how to troubleshoot what is causing them, how they were opened etc. > > > >Is there any way to get a handle to these instances and close them > >programmatically? > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 09:17:32 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:17:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 09:24:05 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:24:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a That's why you have address line 2. Just messing with you, John. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 09:37:38 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:37:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251121.i4PBL2Q23567@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> Arthur, I agree in part with you. One thing that no one has said that I think is essential to "good" database design is imagination. And, you are correct in that there really is only one "perfect" design, with many that are close, and even more that are flawed. I think that the imagination is where the "art" comes in. There is nothing more artistic than a nice E size plot of a good database design. ;-) Most db designers will not go past 3rd normal form. Sorry guys, but that falls into the "close" category. There is a reason that there is 6 normal forms defined. 1 - 5 and Boyce-Codd. Sometimes the "art" is in how we ask the questions to determine the correct design. I have a friend that is extremely good at OLAP design. He was working with me on an OLTP system. When I sketched out the design, he looked at it and said, "Yeah, it looks right, but how did you get there?" When I explained all the steps that I went through in my head, he was amazed at the jumps that I make in the design mentally. Art? Maybe, or maybe just a different way of thinking. The other thing that I told him is that I had reduced all of the 5 numbered normal forms to a single question. "Can there ever be more than one?" If the answer is not "No," then you need another table. Following this faithfully will get you fully normalized. He thought about this over the weekend, thinking that I had simplified it too much. He went and read the requirements for each normal form. When he came back on Monday, he said that he could not find an instance where my way of thinking about design would not work. Maybe the art is in the questions we ask to get the design we get. I like to think that at least a little of what I do is art and not just pure logic. :-)) Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I am ADD. Might be some good questions... How many of you that consider yourselves good programmers are ADD? How many of you that consider yourselves good db architects are ADD? Robert P.S. I think that this has been a great discussion. It shows the diversity of opinions from an educated group of developers. At 06:21 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0 at rock> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to >persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a >bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you >f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read >you. > >I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. > >Arthur From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 09:39:48 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:39:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs In-Reply-To: <200405251417.i4PEHGQ25162@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525093845.0173adf8@pop3.highstream.net> Why not? I have a stored procedure for SQL Server that will create a PDF file without having a PDF printer driver. It should eb able to be adapted to Access. Robert At 09:17 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris >Manning >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to >a PDF file... > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue May 25 09:45:23 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:45:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525093845.0173adf8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <000b01c44267$89588100$9111758f@aine> Robert Any change of seeing that procedure either on or of list?? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs > Why not? I have a stored procedure for SQL Server that will create a PDF > file without having a PDF printer driver. It should eb able to be adapted > to Access. > > Robert > > At 09:17 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris > >Manning > >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > > > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to > >a PDF file... > > > >Doris Manning > >Database Administrator > >Hargrove Inc. > >www.hargroveinc.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue May 25 10:05:41 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:05:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9DE@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Funny I was just going to ask the same thing. Does this require any third party tools? Does it provide formatting? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: PDFs Robert Any change of seeing that procedure either on or of list?? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs > Why not? I have a stored procedure for SQL Server that will create a PDF > file without having a PDF printer driver. It should eb able to be adapted > to Access. > > Robert > > At 09:17 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris > >Manning > >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > > > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically print it to > >a PDF file... > > > >Doris Manning > >Database Administrator > >Hargrove Inc. > >www.hargroveinc.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:17:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:17:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Message-ID: I believe you have to have CDO installed to make that work, do you not? Since CDO isn't installed automatically, even with Outlook, that could be problematic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Don't know if this was solved or not but this does the trick. Here's part of my VB code wich attaches a file to an e-mail. It makes use of the MAPISESSION component : frmMain.MAPISession1.UserName = ProfileName frmMain.MAPISession1.NewSession = True frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOn With frmMain.MAPIMessages1 .SessionID = frmMain.MAPISession1.SessionID .Compose .MsgIndex = -1 .RecipAddress = Recip .ResolveName .MsgSubject = strMail_Titel .MsgNoteText = NoteText If Bestand <> "" Then .AttachmentIndex = .AttachmentCount .AttachmentPathName = Bestand .AttachmentType = mapData .AttachmentPosition = Len(.MsgNoteText) - 1 .AttachmentName = Bestand End If .Send End With frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOff frmMain.MAPIMessages1.SessionID = -1 SendMailOrder = True LogStatus "Mail verstuurd (" & strMail_Titel & ")" Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:23:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:23:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: What do you mean by "logically correct", Arthur. Are you talking 3NF? If so, I tend to agree. But what about 5NF or even further? Data warehousing isn't exactly an OLAP app, but its purpose and usage requires some denormalized tables, or at least 1NF tables, in many cases. Are you saying that is wrong? If speed is an issue, then there are arguments in favor of some "denormalization" particularly in slow network environments. IMO the answer is "it depends." Extreme normalization can be just as bad (and a lot slower) than denormalization, so which is wrong? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I have never yet seen a case where denormalization is correct, except in OLAP apps, which are fundamentally different that OLTP apps. I have been overruled by higher-ups on this point several times, and never once been convinced of their correctness. Show me a case in an OLTP app where denormalization is correct, and demonstrate why it is correct as opposed to the "logically correct" model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:28:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:28:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to the conf list? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, California 1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. 2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd 3. Who would be attending? 4. Who would like to present? 5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? 6. Who has a projector we can use? JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:29:56 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:29:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Suggest an alias? Charlotte Fo -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 10:32:21 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:32:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I don't recall, John. Once I ran into it (and I believe it was a known issue at the time), I avoided that situation. Whether it still occurs or not is up to someone else to demonstrate. As a true believer, I abstain from that design. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Interesting. Is this a known bug? How did you discover that was the issue? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Single table query on a table with all 255-char text fields returned a "query too complex" error. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually, I would say that relying on Jet to do data validation is lazy programming, not the other way around. Lets say you were storing State abbreviations. So you limit your field size to 2. Why limit the field size, when you can just force data entry through a combo box (or even use a lookup field...LOL, sorry, couldn't resist). When the US takes over the entire world, we may have to go to 3 letter abbreviations. When that happens , if you have limited your field, you now have 2 changes to make, instead of 1. Once again, I've been burned quite a few times by other people's field size limitations, and I have NEVER been burned by fields being set to 255. Just out of curiousity, how did the 255 character fields bite you in a query? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:46:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:46:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Yep. It is not a big deal. Expanding a text field may be a HUGE deal. It cannot be done unless everyone is out of that table. So I have to (potentially) go boot all the users, and in the case of my current client REBOOT THE DAMN SERVER (because the lock file is getting mangled all the time). All to change a text field with artificial limits. It isn't like the db USES 255 characters, it just ALLOWS 255 characters. It is NOT my business to tell the user they cannot enter valid data in a field. If the business rules CLEARLY STATE that I need to do that then I do, else I don't. I have never seen a business rule that said the address1 (address2, last name, take your pick) had to be some arbitrary fixed length. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue May 25 10:46:32 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:46:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <40B36A58.5000007@verizon.net> Not ADD, but I do always ask that question, can there ever be more than one. I generally have always stopped at 3rd Normal Form + Boyce Codd, where parts of the database do get fully normalized and others (for performance) do not. Robert L. Stewart wrote On 5/25/2004 7:37 AM: > Arthur, > > I agree in part with you. One thing that no one has said that I think > is essential to "good" database design is imagination. And, you are > correct in that there really is only one "perfect" design, with many > that are close, and even more that are flawed. I think that the > imagination is where the "art" comes in. There is nothing more > artistic than a nice E size plot of a good database design. ;-) > > Most db designers will not go past 3rd normal form. Sorry guys, but > that falls into the "close" category. There is a reason that there is > 6 normal forms defined. 1 - 5 and Boyce-Codd. > > Sometimes the "art" is in how we ask the questions to determine the > correct design. I have a friend that is extremely good at OLAP > design. He was working with me on an OLTP system. When I sketched > out the design, he looked at it and said, "Yeah, it looks right, but > how did you get there?" When I explained all the steps that I went > through in my head, he was amazed at the jumps that I make in the > design mentally. Art? Maybe, or maybe just a different way of thinking. > > The other thing that I told him is that I had reduced all of the 5 > numbered normal forms to a single question. "Can there ever be more > than one?" If the answer is not "No," then you need another table. > Following this faithfully will get you fully normalized. He thought > about this over the weekend, thinking that I had simplified it too > much. He went and read the requirements for each normal form. When > he came back on Monday, he said that he could not find an instance > where my way of thinking about design would not work. > > Maybe the art is in the questions we ask to get the design we get. I > like to think that at least a little of what I do is art and not just > pure logic. :-)) Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I am ADD. > > Might be some good questions... > > How many of you that consider yourselves good programmers are ADD? > > How many of you that consider yourselves good db architects are ADD? > > Robert > > P.S. I think that this has been a great discussion. It shows the > diversity of opinions from an educated group of developers. > > At 06:21 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 >> From: "Arthur Fuller" >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0 at rock> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to >> persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a >> bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you >> f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read >> you. >> >> I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. >> >> Arthur > > > -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Tue May 25 10:50:22 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:50:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B36B3E.8030407@verizon.net> I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:54:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:54:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. Which is fine. How do you know when it will be greater than 255? Some limit must be determined, otherwise we should just set all the fields to memo, because in the future someone may want to make a change. Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:57:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:57:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >You don't. Exactly, I DON'T. I allow them to enter whatever they need. >The user does or they call you and you fix the issue. No, the user calls YOU. I allow the user to enter whatever they need. >How often is this going to happen? Never. I let the user enter whatever they need! >Are we talking about .01% of the data entry on that field? Waaaaaaay less than that because I allow the user to enter whatever they need. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? You don't. The user does or they call you and you fix the issue. How often is this going to happen? Are we talking about .01% of the data entry on that field? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. uhhh... how do you "gracefully" limit the size of another person's name? John W. Col uhh.... damnit! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 11:01:22 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:01:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: What your saying is sort of like making an integer variable and limiting the values to only 10 and then later on changing the allowable values to 15. Right? I know the db doesn't use the 255 characters(unless needed). You are still limiting the amount in the FE, correct? Otherwise I don't agree. I put limits on these things to prevent "Good Users" from doing "Bad Things". Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Yep. It is not a big deal. Expanding a text field may be a HUGE deal. It cannot be done unless everyone is out of that table. So I have to (potentially) go boot all the users, and in the case of my current client REBOOT THE DAMN SERVER (because the lock file is getting mangled all the time). All to change a text field with artificial limits. It isn't like the db USES 255 characters, it just ALLOWS 255 characters. It is NOT my business to tell the user they cannot enter valid data in a field. If the business rules CLEARLY STATE that I need to do that then I do, else I don't. I have never seen a business rule that said the address1 (address2, last name, take your pick) had to be some arbitrary fixed length. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 11:06:34 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:06:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. Which is fine. How do you know when it will be greater than 255? Some limit must be determined, otherwise we should just set all the fields to memo, because in the future someone may want to make a change. Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And I do use a lot of memo fields (with all the inherent problems) when I suspect that more than 255 will be needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue May 25 11:11:14 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:11:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525092019.017eeea8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <40B37022.3090500@shaw.ca> Maybe you don't have ADD but something genetically and symptomatically similar, Asperger's Syndrome. It is quite common to find people with this in certain job areas, Microsoft and IBM have both noticed this trait with people at their research sites. Robert L. Stewart wrote: > Arthur, > > I agree in part with you. One thing that no one has said that I think > is essential to "good" database design is imagination. And, you are > correct in that there really is only one "perfect" design, with many > that are close, and even more that are flawed. I think that the > imagination is where the "art" comes in. There is nothing more > artistic than a nice E size plot of a good database design. ;-) > > Most db designers will not go past 3rd normal form. Sorry guys, but > that falls into the "close" category. There is a reason that there is > 6 normal forms defined. 1 - 5 and Boyce-Codd. > > Sometimes the "art" is in how we ask the questions to determine the > correct design. I have a friend that is extremely good at OLAP > design. He was working with me on an OLTP system. When I sketched > out the design, he looked at it and said, "Yeah, it looks right, but > how did you get there?" When I explained all the steps that I went > through in my head, he was amazed at the jumps that I make in the > design mentally. Art? Maybe, or maybe just a different way of thinking. > > The other thing that I told him is that I had reduced all of the 5 > numbered normal forms to a single question. "Can there ever be more > than one?" If the answer is not "No," then you need another table. > Following this faithfully will get you fully normalized. He thought > about this over the weekend, thinking that I had simplified it too > much. He went and read the requirements for each normal form. When > he came back on Monday, he said that he could not find an instance > where my way of thinking about design would not work. > > Maybe the art is in the questions we ask to get the design we get. I > like to think that at least a little of what I do is art and not just > pure logic. :-)) Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I am ADD. > > Might be some good questions... > > How many of you that consider yourselves good programmers are ADD? > > How many of you that consider yourselves good db architects are ADD? > > Robert > > P.S. I think that this has been a great discussion. It shows the > diversity of opinions from an educated group of developers. > > At 06:21 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:46:44 -0400 >> From: "Arthur Fuller" >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Message-ID: <000401c44202$83eef560$6601a8c0 at rock> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to >> persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a >> bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you >> f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read >> you. >> >> I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. >> >> Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 11:21:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:21:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF3F@main2.marlow.com> Very well put. I hope this stays calm though, I sense tempers arising....then again, I haven't had very much coffee, so I may just be looking for a fight to wake up! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Tue May 25 11:30:35 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:30:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4C@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" I need it as a value "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 export keeps chopping the the data to "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > You could try to format your field in the query with a format > function ala > > Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" > > Gary Kjos > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: > >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > > > >Hi; > >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. > Numbers with 4 > >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in > >text file as 2.32. > > > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. > >Martin > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Tue May 25 11:32:46 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:32:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC4C@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Yup, they are perfect candidates for colbyization. The sad thing is beginning coders take that stuff to be gospel. A lot of it is truly awful. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Ahhh, the summer internships. To be frank, their example code pretty much sucks. Ditto for their example databases, at least as far as structure goes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Remember speed govenors on cars learning drivers used to have before they were finally given their license? Maybe a nanny screen(s) that pop up saying in effect here is a better way to build this table, query, etc.. Kind of just-in-time lessons. OH, and Microsoft should totally clean up their example code because that is where everyone starts when they begin to explore VBA. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 10:40:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Much like suggesting setting everything to variant to cover the bases. The difference is that there is (often) a huge downside to using only variants, there is little (or no) downside to using 255 character strings. Setting text fields to specific widths in a db comes from the old databases where the databases REQUIRED that because they physically set aside the space in the db. Access doesn't do that. The purpose was not to "enforce rules", it was to conserve very limited disk and memory space. Access doesn't do things that way so the "reason" to do that ceases to be valid. Like most things in life, the reason gets lost in the mists of time and become embedded in the "rules". I read a very funny story once. A woman was teaching her young daughter how to cook a ham. The mom's instructions were to cut the end off the ham, add the glaze, etc etc. The daughter asks "why do we cut the end off the ham". Mom replies... uhhh... I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask my mom. Grandma says ... uh... I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask great grandma. Great grandma says "You don't need to cut the end off the ham. I just did that because I only had a short pan and I needed to make the ham fit". Question EVERYTHING! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know those limitations. I was making a point. Much like suggesting setting everything to variant to cover the bases. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 11:54:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:54:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF42@main2.marlow.com> What is art anyhow? Art is simply the manipulation of known sciences. I was a music major in college. (For a time). I played trombone, and was on a jazz scholarship. Got to meet lots of people in the jazz world. It was neat. But I turned my love of math (which is what music is based on), into a passion for computers. To me they are very similar. I was a good musician, but I was never able to 'improvise' very well, at least I didn't like what I would improvise. However, I do like what I can 'improvise' on a computer. Science, engineering, art, etc, all work on systems with rules. When you are building a bridge, you have all sorts of factors that are involved, and modern engineers have tons and tons of experience to overcome the normal mundane issues. However, science, engineering and art are also expanding. This isn't done strictly through building upon past experience. Every so often an 'out of the box' solution is required, and when it arrives, that is when science, engineering, and art are alike. Granted, when I have to display records on a web page, or create a data entry form, those are pretty mundane, cut and dry processes. However, when I built the archives for the AccessD list, and found searching through the memo fields to be too lengthy of a process, I built the memo field indexer. That was something I considered art. Sure, it uses the same 'tools' that the mundane processes use, but it was (if I may say so) 'Out of the box' thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read you. I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would > agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong > way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, > and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one > very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a > good artist is going to draw something that is immediately > recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can > take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db > design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing > something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, > stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' > media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% > science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as > auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be > compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the > database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published > poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, > tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the > connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. > Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not > much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is > strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, > a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of > incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific > theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a > art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an > artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American > "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected > guerrillas in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, > Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly > the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test > it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the > forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the > normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the > new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the > users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work > like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting > the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several > weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep > the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the > database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db > running until I could throw the switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was > very nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to > put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide > the women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from > the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT > the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in > self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side > of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to > me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly > over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when > Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several > years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was > happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the > office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. > It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational > databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong > except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since > gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually > discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule > than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer > numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access > databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than > developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group > recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating > around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my > company we have several people who know a lot about the business but > only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to > produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of > Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day > basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product > was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the > product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list > that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact > remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of > its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this > mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble > not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get > their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph > into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity > to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid > results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off > into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. > So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be > given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease > the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer > maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we > should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even > harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not > realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the > development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain > about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all > are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at > building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper > where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine > what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to > smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners > IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements > could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth > the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you > the department needs such and such, and you're not a database > developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with > crap from a developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, > but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know > that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it > happens a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to > get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even > have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 11:55:31 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:55:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <279160-220045225165531564@christopherhawkins.com> I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 11:56:06 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:56:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <322680-22004522516566955@christopherhawkins.com> P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 12:03:36 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:03:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <258780-22004522517336320@christopherhawkins.com> I agree with Scott. Never be afraid to fire a troublesome client. In my experience, the void always fills with higher-quality business. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: marcus at tsstech.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:43:29 -0400 >Stephen, > >Right or wrong, your contract with the client determines who pays. >Are you working by the hour or by the project? > >If the client won't pay for your time when they agree to pay by the >hour, that would be them breaking the contract. These are the type >of clients you should get rid of if possible. You must weigh the >benefits of keeping the contract vs. free work. Such is the nature >of contract work. > >Scott Marcus >TSS Technologies, Inc. >marcus at tsstech.com >(513) 772-7000 > > -----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Pickering, Stephen >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:28 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > >Great points, Stuart. Plus, there's the explanations and >documentation of >the changes. And the clients who don't want to pay for the >modifications, >even when they prescribe the changes. > >I once had a client that requested a very complex report. After >doing the >analysis, documenting the business rules, and discussing the >mock-ups, I >wrote the report. > >The client said the report wasn't right, that the calculations were >wrong. >So, I went over the business rule document with the client, and the >client >changed several rules. Of course, the client said these weren't >changes >-- I had gotten it wrong. > >So I re-did the business rules, and gave them the new report. >Again, it >was "wrong". Again, we went over the business rules. Again, I >revised >the report. > >This went through several iterations. Each time it was wrong, and >it was >my fault because I just didn't understand the business rules, or >didn't >get them right, according to the client. > >The last time they revised (or "corrected") the business rules, the >new >calculations looked familiar. Sure enough, the business rules now >set by >the client were the original business rules from the very first >iteration >of the report. > >I shared the original document, dated, with the client to show them >that >we had come full circle, and that they had been changing business >rules >this whole time. Were they grateful? Did we all share a good >laugh, and >learn a valuable lesson? Sadly, no. To the client, it was still my >fault, and I shouldn't bill them for all of the changes, I should >have >gotten it right the first time. The fact that I did meant nothing to >them. > >I learned a valuable lesson. I quit consulting and went back into >Corporate America. The client is a little more understanding when >it's >yourself. > >Don't assume that the client will pay for any and all changes they >request >down the road. Some will, but some will always try to get something >for >nothing. > >Steve > >-----Stuart McLachlan's Original Message----- > >On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: > >> >> Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state >> abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, >I'll >> make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. >> > >And who pays for that work to be done? > >Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that >shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time >yourself. > >What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different >places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the >sites. > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 12:03:52 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:03:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs In-Reply-To: <200405251611.i4PGBqQ06394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525120331.017da800@pop3.highstream.net> Those that want it, please contact me off list. At 11:11 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:45:23 +0100 >From: "Martin Reid" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: PDFs >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: <000b01c44267$89588100$9111758f at aine> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Robert > >Any change of seeing that procedure either on or of list?? > >Martin From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 12:05:02 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:05:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: PDFs In-Reply-To: <200405251611.i4PGBqQ06394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525120414.01744890@pop3.highstream.net> It is limited to 8.5 x 11 and portrait. But you should be able to figure things out to make to work with any size. At 11:11 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:05:41 -0400 >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: PDFs >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9DE at TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Funny I was just going to ask the same thing. Does this require any third >party tools? Does it provide formatting? > >Jim DeMarco From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 12:06:38 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:06:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] PDFs Message-ID: <296440-22004522517638947@christopherhawkins.com> I managed to use the list's feedback to cobble together a solution to my Access-to-PDF problem. I'll post the code when I get to the office. Maybe it will help. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: mikedorism at adelphia.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:23:40 -0400 >It isn't in a sense... Think about it... If you export a report to >Excel, >you don't print the whole report to Excel. > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >Lawrence >(AccessD) >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:27 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Is not that basically the same thing? > >Just wondering >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & >Doris >Manning >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:32 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Export to PDF can't be done from Access. You have to basically >print it to >a PDF file... > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin >Reid >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:24 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] PDFs > > >Anyone care to explain how to export a fairly large report directly >to PDF? >Rather thna run the access report I want to stuff the data out to a >PDF file >and open that instead. > >Martin > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 12:05:56 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:05:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I wouldn't suggest that setting text fields to a length of 255 is incorrect except where length is part of a validation rule that you want to enforce at the database table level. However, designing a table with fields whose total allowable size exceeds a size that can be saved and not taking steps to validate and handle an oversize record is bad design. Neglecting to provide the user with a meaningful error message and allowing him to choose which fields to truncate or at least dumping all his text into a memo field with notification that certain fields were arbitrarily truncated (if that is how you handle it) is a failure to properly design an application. Developers need to be aware of limitations and need to handle them, either in an error handler or in this instance, by providing additional one to one tables to allow for the full size of record possible. I have found that users don't report all errors and many developers do not use an error log to track actual issues. Then there are those who blithely throw in an 'On Error Resume Next' and blame failed entries on users. It is not terribly difficult to bind a text display control alternately to memo field or to a text field as required, though it is more problematic in a continuous form. It is usually sufficient to set an unbound text field to display the concatenated contents of two bound fields that are hidden and set their contents in code in the after update of the unbound display/input control. I have found that leaving the first 20 characters in the text field and everything after the first 20 in the memo field, when it is required, allows one to kind of sort and index on the text field even though it may it operates functionally as a memo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 12:07:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:07:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF43@main2.marlow.com> It was an unexpected anamoly. I don't want to take this on a completely different tangent, but to answer your question, I'll have to get into my 'error handling' techniques a bit. Quite frankly, I rarely use error handling. Before I get completely blasted off the List, let me explain. I don't use error handling very often, because a large majority of my systems reside 'in house'. I intentionally use error handling when I need it for 'expected errors', ie, if I want to see if something is in a collection, I try to 'grab' it, if it errors, I know it doesn't exist. Also, when writing VB Services, I use complete error handling (creating VB Services without errorhandling on every process can be detrimental to your systems). I also include error handling in my VB .dll's that interact with ASP (most of the time). Now, to finish up, before I am flamed, I only do this for projects I have in my 'sphere' of influence. I want to actually code around issues that arise. However, if something is going out the door, ie leaving my sphere of influence, then I do use error handling. With that explained, the 'AccessD Indexer' is a VB Service. Thus it is error handled at every step. However, all I have the error handling doing, is reporting to the Event Handler (so messages show up in the Application Events log). I flip flop a bit on VB services, depending on what I need them to do. If it's a 'mission critical' system, where it needs to be running no matter what, then I create 'never surrender' error handling. It logs it, tries to deal with anything it can, then keeps chugging. On those systems, I usually have it email me when an error occurs, so I don't let a program just run away. If it's not mission critical, or if it must following a step by step process, then I use fall over handling, where if an error occurs, it just stops, and usually emails me. The Indexer was this way. I actually didn't change any of the code, but went back into the index dbs, and changed the field size to 255. Did that answer your question? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Why wouldn't you write code to handle this exception? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 12:15:19 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:15:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251611.i4PGBqQ06394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525121345.04d34308@pop3.highstream.net> I really don't think so... Asperger Syndrome or (Asperger's Disorder) is a neurobiological disorder named for a Viennese physician, Hans Asperger, who in 1944 published a paper which described a pattern of behaviors in several young boys who had normal intelligence and language development, but who also exhibited autistic-like behaviors and marked deficiencies in social and communication skills. In spite of the publication of his paper in the 1940's, it wasn't until 1994 that Asperger Syndrome was added to the DSM IV and only in the past few years has AS been recognized by professionals and parents. Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting". By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naivet?, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context. At this time there is a great deal of debate as to exactly where AS fits. It is presently described as an autism spectrum disorder and Uta Frith, in her book AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, described AS individuals as "having a dash of Autism". Some professionals feel that AS is the same as High Functioning Autism, while others feel that it is better described as a Nonverbal Learning Disability. AS shares many of the characteristics of PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder; Not otherwise specified), HFA, and NLD and because it was virtually unknown until a few years ago, many individuals either received an incorrect diagnosis or remained undiagnosed. For example, it is not at all uncommon for a child who was initially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD be re-diagnosed with AS. In addition, some individuals who were originally diagnosed with HFA or PDD-NOS are now being given the AS diagnosis and many individuals have a dual diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism. Seems to be a form of Autism. I'll stick with the ADD. :-) At 11:11 AM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:11:14 -0700 >From: MartyConnelly >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <40B37022.3090500 at shaw.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii > >Maybe you don't have ADD but something genetically and symptomatically >similar, Asperger's Syndrome. It is quite common to find people with >this in certain job areas, Microsoft and IBM have both noticed this >trait with people at their research sites. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 12:17:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:17:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Drew, I thought it was odd that your indexer would just crash (or maybe I'm not understanding) because of size limits. On another note about error handling: What happens when you walk out the door (not the applications you wrote) and there is no error handling? You're right, you'll probably get flamed big time for admitting this, so I'll leave you alone on it. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various It was an unexpected anamoly. I don't want to take this on a completely different tangent, but to answer your question, I'll have to get into my 'error handling' techniques a bit. Quite frankly, I rarely use error handling. Before I get completely blasted off the List, let me explain. I don't use error handling very often, because a large majority of my systems reside 'in house'. I intentionally use error handling when I need it for 'expected errors', ie, if I want to see if something is in a collection, I try to 'grab' it, if it errors, I know it doesn't exist. Also, when writing VB Services, I use complete error handling (creating VB Services without errorhandling on every process can be detrimental to your systems). I also include error handling in my VB .dll's that interact with ASP (most of the time). Now, to finish up, before I am flamed, I only do this for projects I have in my 'sphere' of influence. I want to actually code around issues that arise. However, if something is going out the door, ie leaving my sphere of influence, then I do use error handling. With that explained, the 'AccessD Indexer' is a VB Service. Thus it is error handled at every step. However, all I have the error handling doing, is reporting to the Event Handler (so messages show up in the Application Events log). I flip flop a bit on VB services, depending on what I need them to do. If it's a 'mission critical' system, where it needs to be running no matter what, then I create 'never surrender' error handling. It logs it, tries to deal with anything it can, then keeps chugging. On those systems, I usually have it email me when an error occurs, so I don't let a program just run away. If it's not mission critical, or if it must following a step by step process, then I use fall over handling, where if an error occurs, it just stops, and usually emails me. The Indexer was this way. I actually didn't change any of the code, but went back into the index dbs, and changed the field size to 255. Did that answer your question? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Why wouldn't you write code to handle this exception? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 12:24:20 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:24:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <279160-220045225165531564@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4427d$20eface0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> They are. I can only help the relatively locals. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 12:26:31 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:26:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <40B36B3E.8030407@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000b01c4427d$6ef08c20$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 12:31:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:31:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 12:33:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:33:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I put limits on these things to prevent "Good Users" from doing "Bad Things". Shades of Marshal Dillon. I design databases, I am not the Sheriff. What is bad to you may be perfectly legal and necessary to your user. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various What your saying is sort of like making an integer variable and limiting the values to only 10 and then later on changing the allowable values to 15. Right? I know the db doesn't use the 255 characters(unless needed). You are still limiting the amount in the FE, correct? Otherwise I don't agree. I put limits on these things to prevent "Good Users" from doing "Bad Things". Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Yep. It is not a big deal. Expanding a text field may be a HUGE deal. It cannot be done unless everyone is out of that table. So I have to (potentially) go boot all the users, and in the case of my current client REBOOT THE DAMN SERVER (because the lock file is getting mangled all the time). All to change a text field with artificial limits. It isn't like the db USES 255 characters, it just ALLOWS 255 characters. It is NOT my business to tell the user they cannot enter valid data in a field. If the business rules CLEARLY STATE that I need to do that then I do, else I don't. I have never seen a business rule that said the address1 (address2, last name, take your pick) had to be some arbitrary fixed length. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 12:35:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:35:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Just messing with you, John. Now THAT is a valid reason for limiting my last name field to 3 characters. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a That's why you have address line 2. Just messing with you, John. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 12:37:41 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:37:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 12:41:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:41:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF46@main2.marlow.com> No, just stops. Well, it did. Now it will stop if a word goes over 255 characters. Let's not test it thought, cause I don't want to have to build it to handle more then 255 characters per word. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Tue May 25 12:42:11 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:42:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 12:44:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:44:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF47@main2.marlow.com> I would. However, if they increased the size of a text field, it would probably be 65534 characters (255 squared, minus 2). Of course, that would run into the page size, so they would need to expand that too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. Why is it such a big deal to go and make the change? That's why they pay you. What if the maximum for a text field was 512? Would you then set the limit to 512? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Brett, >If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? I format forms to accept as much as is normally needed plus some, taking in to account screen real estate. You can always scroll left / right or even add scroll bars to text boxes to allow vertical scrolling as needed. In reports I use AllowToGrow so that the box can expand vertically as needed. >Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. On forms that is obviously true, on reports it is false. >Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? Of course. >Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Yes. OTOH, how do you handle it? OK, lets not make it 255, let's make it what.... 25? What happens when they really do need 26? OK, if not 25, then what? 50? You are making an arbitrary decision, running the risk of a valid address not fitting (and I've seen some pretty big ones) or, if you expand to 50, then allowing the user a short memo anyway. I cannot set the rules for the user, the client needs to do that. If the client does not want the user using Address2 as a memo field they need to state that. If the user uses Address2 as a memo field then the client needs to discipline their employee. My job is to allow the user to capture the data, whatever that data might be. My job is NOT to tell the user "make it fit in 20 spaces". IF the client asks me to set up a zip code mask, or a phone mask or whatever I will do so. That is the CLIENT requesting it. If the client requests that I set Address2 to 20 characters then I will do so, because the CLIENT asks me to. I will state the argument that the address might be longer than 20, explain that in the event they encounter an address longer than the limit they will have to get all the users out of the db (or at least out of that table) in order to modify things so that the address fits. If they want 20, then they get 20 but I am never going to arbitrarily make such a decision. If the data MUST be limited, or checked in some way, for a valid business rules reason, I will do that. But that is fundamentally different from arbitrarily "deciding" on 20 (or whatever) characters. I certainly do not agree that it is sloppy programming (db design). Just today I had to go in and remove a mask that the client requested. When I designed the db the client swore up and down that they would NEVER have claimants residing outside the US. They did NOT want a country field, they wanted a US state table etc. I explained the obvious and gave them what they asked for. Today I removed the zip code mask so that a Canadian zip could be entered. The 2nd line of the address is being used for the city and country. I explained the obvious and was explicitly told NOT to give them what they ultimately needed. No way in hell I am going to INTENTIONALLY not give them what they need just because I personally think an address should fit in 25 (or whatever) characters. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 12:53:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:53:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Why don't you just truncate the indexing? What words are you indexing that are over 100 characters. There certainly can't be that many. I wouldn't mind if the results for searching were less accurate for these larger words as long as I get back more results and not less results. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, just stops. Well, it did. Now it will stop if a word goes over 255 characters. Let's not test it thought, cause I don't want to have to build it to handle more then 255 characters per word. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 13:00:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF48@main2.marlow.com> I don't know Gustav, I don't charge my clients if I think I should have programmed something differently. Just recently, I wrote a PO and an Inventory system as a sub contract job. System works great, until they used part descriptions that had double quotes in them. It was a simple fix, had two SQL strings where I just wrapped the offending field in a Replace statement. Problem solved, and no charge (to the actual 'contractor'). Why? Because I guarantee my work. They asked for a system, and I met their specs. My system failed on something that was not outside of the original specs. So, if I write a system that limits a field to 20 characters, because I am 'guessing' that is all they'll ever need, and one day they come back and say, hey, your system won't let us put in the data we need to put in, I would could consider that a warrantee job, because I put a limit that the customer didn't ask for. Now, if the customer puts in their specs, that a particular field is not to go over 20 characters, well, honestly, I wouldn't limit the field, still, I would just force the interface to not allow more then 20 characters. Again, I usually write ASP front ends, so in this case, I would have the code, that enters or modifies the data in the db, use a Left(strXYZ,20) statement, to chunk anything over that shows to be longer then 20 characters. If the client later changes the requirement to 25 characters, I just change my code to allow for more characters, and bill them for the change. It is also a different world with web clients. Something I better bring up. It is a LOT easier to change your code, then to make structural changes in a web database. Code changes can be made to a live system, with little to no interruption. (If it's using ActiveX .dll's, there is going to be a few seconds of down time, to release the old .dll, and replace it with the new one). If it's using just ASP, there is absolutely no down time, the next person to use the system after the update gets the new page. However, it is a rare case that you have direct access to the webserver, and even rarer that it would have Microsoft Access on it. So you either write some complex SQL statements to create a temp table with the change, delete the old table, and then create a new one in it's place with the temp table's data. OR, you turn their webserver off, download the database, make your change, and upload it back....can take a while depending on the size of the db. You'd have to turn their webserver off, because if you copy the 'new' db over the old one, and someone has used the system in the meantime, you are now replacing the current db with a new structure, but out of date data. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi Stuart well, you and several contributors to this thread - with Arthur and Scott as the bright exceptions - should join a club of weeping school girls. Now come on and get professional as is the general attitude of our fellow listers. If you design an app wrongly, you'll of course have to fix it; if some standard is changed, say postal codes for a country goes from x to y format and you couldn't know, the client has to pay. If your app is out in big numbers, you would offer an update. Since when has distributing an update been a problem? /gustav > On 25 May 2004 at 7:45, Scott Marcus wrote: >> >> Someone else mentioned not limiting fields to 2 letters for state >> abbreviations. Why not? When the abbreviations jump to 3 letters, I'll >> make the field bigger. That's just part of my job. >> > And who pays for that work to be done? > Do you stick the client with a bill for a modification that > shouldn't have been needed or do you wear the cost of the time > yourself. > What if you've got the same app rolled out in lot's of different > places. It can get quite expensive to provide updates to all the > sites. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 13:08:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:08:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF49@main2.marlow.com> I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by >default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue May 25 13:27:29 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:27:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> List, We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? TIA Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 13:29:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:29:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. Not true, arbitrary implies flipping a coin and taking whatever comes down. I am in no way doing that. I am making an informed choice between two data types. Memos have many problems that I don't want to deal with if I don't have to. If I had the choice of using a 4K text field I would (probably). Here is the (original) argument (as I read it) "I want to be able to display all of the data that the user is able to enter. So if I can only display 20 characters I limit the user to 20 characters." Now tell me, is that a valid reason to set a limit to a field size? Not in my book. If he can only display 10 characters for the last name he sets the text field to 10? If only 5 then he sets it to 5? Whose data is this anyway? This whole argument is simply silly. You are choosing some number, out of thin air, no validation testing, no mathematical proof that the size you are setting is 99.9% of all the instances the user wishes to enter. Just a number, grabbed out of thin air, that is what YOU decide the data should fit in. Flip a coin, pull a number out of a hat, spin a roulette wheel. I am making a decision between 2 choices, a data type of 255 characters or a data type of 32K. I then look at the expected data and if there is a reasonable use for the memo I use it. Your choices are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...255 characters. But there is no specific reason for 2 instead of 3, or 4 instead of 6, just "what you think "should" work". Pick one at random (and attempt to validate your reasons so that you are comfortable) then run around expanding the number when it is not a good choice. I personally don't care if you do that but to tell me that I am using bad programming practices because I don't make such capricious and arbitrary decisions is a bit of an insult wouldn't you say? And FINALLY, notice that you are studiously avoiding any talk of business analysis. I have stated over and over that if there is a BUSINESS reason for limiting a field length then I would do so. "My address fields are limited to 25 characters" is NOT a business rule. "I limit the field to the size I can display" is CERTAINLY not a business rule. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 13:40:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a field 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 13:44:53 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Support at CorporateDataDesign.com Tue May 25 13:46:30 2004 From: Support at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:46:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] News: Access 2003 conversion kit In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF47@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001f01c44288$97e92140$6501a8c0@OFFICEXP1> FYI, http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1599387,00.asp John Skolits From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 13:47:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:47:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: Numbers don't have leading zeroes unless they are formatted as strings. What's the difference between 0444 and 0.4375? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:31 AM To: Accessd Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" I need it as a value "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 export keeps chopping the the data to "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:23 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > You could try to format your field in the query with a format > function ala > > Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" > > Gary Kjos > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: > >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > > > >Hi; > >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. > Numbers with 4 > >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 shows up in > >text file as 2.32. > > > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. > >Martin > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 13:48:23 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:48:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Your decision isn't based on a business rule either. The 255 limit is because you don't want to program around a memo. Your right that this discussion is silly, because 10 e-mails ago I had already decided when to use the 255 method and when not. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. Not true, arbitrary implies flipping a coin and taking whatever comes down. I am in no way doing that. I am making an informed choice between two data types. Memos have many problems that I don't want to deal with if I don't have to. If I had the choice of using a 4K text field I would (probably). Here is the (original) argument (as I read it) "I want to be able to display all of the data that the user is able to enter. So if I can only display 20 characters I limit the user to 20 characters." Now tell me, is that a valid reason to set a limit to a field size? Not in my book. If he can only display 10 characters for the last name he sets the text field to 10? If only 5 then he sets it to 5? Whose data is this anyway? This whole argument is simply silly. You are choosing some number, out of thin air, no validation testing, no mathematical proof that the size you are setting is 99.9% of all the instances the user wishes to enter. Just a number, grabbed out of thin air, that is what YOU decide the data should fit in. Flip a coin, pull a number out of a hat, spin a roulette wheel. I am making a decision between 2 choices, a data type of 255 characters or a data type of 32K. I then look at the expected data and if there is a reasonable use for the memo I use it. Your choices are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...255 characters. But there is no specific reason for 2 instead of 3, or 4 instead of 6, just "what you think "should" work". Pick one at random (and attempt to validate your reasons so that you are comfortable) then run around expanding the number when it is not a good choice. I personally don't care if you do that but to tell me that I am using bad programming practices because I don't make such capricious and arbitrary decisions is a bit of an insult wouldn't you say? And FINALLY, notice that you are studiously avoiding any talk of business analysis. I have stated over and over that if there is a BUSINESS reason for limiting a field length then I would do so. "My address fields are limited to 25 characters" is NOT a business rule. "I limit the field to the size I can display" is CERTAINLY not a business rule. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Tue May 25 14:20:07 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:20:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B6F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> The example; "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 The first 'field', "0444", is a string specification for an import - same for 2-5. Fields 6 and 8, 536.00 and 0.4375 are numbers except the access export chops the second number to 0.43 in the resulting txt file. > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > Numbers don't have leading zeroes unless they are formatted > as strings. What's the difference between 0444 and 0.4375? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:31 AM > To: Accessd > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this > > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" > > I need it as a value > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 > > export keeps chopping the the data to > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 > > -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Kjos [mailto:garykjos at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:23 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > > > > > You could try to format your field in the query with a > format function > > ala > > > > Outputfield:Format(DataField,"0.0000'" > > > > Gary Kjos > > garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Martin Kahelin" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: > > >Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate > > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:35:55 -0400 > > > > > >Hi; > > >I'm exporting a query to a comma delimited text file. > > Numbers with 4 > > >decimal places are truncated to 2 decimal places; 2.3275 > shows up in > > >text file as 2.32. > > > > > >I hope this is not a feature and can be fixed. > > >Martin > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue May 25 14:24:00 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:24:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] News: Access 2003 conversion kit References: <001f01c44288$97e92140$6501a8c0@OFFICEXP1> Message-ID: <003f01c4428d$d67a2e90$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> They are also developing many whitepapers on moving Access to SQL Server. A whole raft of them are currently being completed. Looks like 2003 isnt all they want Access moved to!!! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Skolits" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: [AccessD] News: Access 2003 conversion kit > > FYI, > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1599387,00.asp > > John Skolits > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 14:25:01 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:25:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251845.i4PIjOQ19926@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525142121.017a8df8@pop3.highstream.net> John and all, I have been reading this and wow, you guys need to snip out the old so we do not have these massive emails with everything in them. John, there is only one point that I would have to disagree with you on. That is if you defined a table that COULD hold more that the bytes allowed per record. That would be a no-no. And, before you go there, I had one of the SIG members from my developer's SIG do just that. We ended up splitting it up into 3 tables with 1-to-1 relationships. Robert At 01:45 PM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:29:20 -0400 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. > >Not true, arbitrary implies flipping a coin and taking whatever comes down. >I am in no way doing that. I am making an informed choice between two data >types. Memos have many problems that I don't want to deal with if I don't >have to. If I had the choice of using a 4K text field I would (probably). > >Here is the (original) argument (as I read it) > >"I want to be able to display all of the data that the user is able to >enter. So if I can only display 20 characters I limit the user to 20 >characters." > >Now tell me, is that a valid reason to set a limit to a field size? Not in >my book. If he can only display 10 characters for the last name he sets the >text field to 10? If only 5 then he sets it to 5? Whose data is this >anyway? > >This whole argument is simply silly. You are choosing some number, out of >thin air, no validation testing, no mathematical proof that the size you are >setting is 99.9% of all the instances the user wishes to enter. Just a >number, grabbed out of thin air, that is what YOU decide the data should fit >in. Flip a coin, pull a number out of a hat, spin a roulette wheel. > >I am making a decision between 2 choices, a data type of 255 characters or a >data type of 32K. I then look at the expected data and if there is a >reasonable use for the memo I use it. > >Your choices are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...255 characters. But there is no >specific reason for 2 instead of 3, or 4 instead of 6, just "what you think >"should" work". > >Pick one at random (and attempt to validate your reasons so that you are >comfortable) then run around expanding the number when it is not a good >choice. > >I personally don't care if you do that but to tell me that I am using bad >programming practices because I don't make such capricious and arbitrary >decisions is a bit of an insult wouldn't you say? > >And FINALLY, notice that you are studiously avoiding any talk of business >analysis. I have stated over and over that if there is a BUSINESS reason >for limiting a field length then I would do so. "My address fields are >limited to 25 characters" is NOT a business rule. "I limit the field to the >size I can display" is CERTAINLY not a business rule. > >John W. Colby From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue May 25 14:26:29 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:26:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <200405251845.i4PIjOQ19926@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040525142543.017fcec8@pop3.highstream.net> Right Charlotte, I believe that is why they call them rules. :-)) At 01:45 PM 5/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:40:37 -0700 >From: "Charlotte Foust" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control >them. The client just applies penalties. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients >data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control >THEIR users. That's up to them to do. > >Drew From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 14:32:03 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:32:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Thoughts on Access97 Replication Message-ID: To help with overall network traffic and responsiveness of the FE, I've been considering use of replication of the BE on client machines. Anyone doing this? Seems to be working OK so far but what kind of gotchas do I need to know about. I'm pretty familiar with replication(technically), I just haven't used it much and for a while. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue May 25 14:32:30 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:32:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <004201c4428f$04e7e780$6601a8c0@rock> Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue May 25 14:33:25 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:33:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040525193322.GKYS1779.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think you could purchase an "opt out" option -- or was that just a request that never made its way to the plan? :) Personally -- you guys really ought to let people attend without forcing them to present -- it's not for everybody. Susan H. Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 14:35:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:35:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Thoughts on Access97 Replication Message-ID: The only big headache I ever ran into was replicating design changes, since they sync before data changes, which can lead to *interesting* results, particularly if you drop a field or table. I always used a 3 level replication scheme, with the workstation replicas created from an intermediate, "hub" replica. That gave me the design master to work on and a fall back when (not if) either the design master went south or the hub did. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Thoughts on Access97 Replication To help with overall network traffic and responsiveness of the FE, I've been considering use of replication of the BE on client machines. Anyone doing this? Seems to be working OK so far but what kind of gotchas do I need to know about. I'm pretty familiar with replication(technically), I just haven't used it much and for a while. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 14:37:43 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:37:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Message-ID: You should see the BE relationships in the FE without creating them there, although the layout may not be pretty. The Enforce RI checkboxes are unavailable in the FE on relationships declared in the BE and on relationships either in the BE or between the FE and BE. Just delete the FE relationships unless you have some on FE tables. The FE inherits relationships from the BE. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 14:39:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:39:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: If there was an opt out, no one told *me*! But hey, there aren't that many of us in the SoCal neighborhood (OK, so I'm 400 miles away), so it was either force presentations or sit around and play cards. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I think you could purchase an "opt out" option -- or was that just a request that never made its way to the plan? :) Personally -- you guys really ought to let people attend without forcing them to present -- it's not for everybody. Susan H. Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue May 25 15:07:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:07:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! In-Reply-To: <004201c4428f$04e7e780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, It's only the BE relationships that count, so you can simply delete them in the FE. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue May 25 15:15:57 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:15:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000b01c4427d$6ef08c20$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> You'd have to ask Bryan. Get him on listmaster at databaseadvisors.com -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht > Sent: 25 May 2004 18:27 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the > conference list? > > Let all who have interest know I said August or later you > have desire but vacation plans for August. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Francisco H Tapia > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. > -- > -Francisco > > Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: > > >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a > conflict, but I > >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we > take this to > >the conf list? > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks > from the 405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From pedro at plex.nl Tue May 25 15:20:10 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:20:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] auto save in word References: <40B327AC.6658.BA75C3@localhost> Message-ID: <003b01c44296$1a244a10$f8c581d5@pedro> Hello Stuart and others, i tried to put my code (docproperties) and your code (suffix) together When BezoekrapportID value =1, and saving true code i get as filename Bezoekrapport1_.doc in the right directory. Saving it again nothing happens. Then adjusting the code after Do, changing If Filename .... to If strFilename then saving by code, word crashes. Could you take a look at it again. Thanks Pedro Janssen Sub Bezoekrapport() Dim flgSaved As Boolean Dim strSuffix As String flgSaved = False strSuffix = "" For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties If prop.Name = "BezoekrapportID" Then strFileNamePart = prop.Value Exit For End If Next strFileName = "C:\Werkbrieven Opslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" Do If FileName > " " Then strSuffix = (Val(strSuffix) + 1) Else flgSaved = True ActiveDocument.SaveAs FileName:=strFileName flgSaved = True End If Loop Until flgSaved End Sub ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] auto save in word > On 24 May 2004 at 21:32, Pedro Janssen wrote: > > > Hello Stuart, > > > > thanks for your help. When a file exists it makes suffixes like _ 1, _ 2 > > etc., but these are saved in My Documents (Dir$???). > > Yes, they would be the way I wrote that aircode :-( > Try: > Document.SaveAs FileName:= > "W:\WerkbrievenOpslag\Bezoekrapport\Bezoekrapport" _ > & strFileNamePart & "_" & strSuffix & ".doc" > > >Can you give me a hand > > on how to use the doc properties in your code (i placed them in the code, > > but with no result)? > > > Not sure what you are asking for here > > > > For Each prop In ActiveDocument.CustomDocumentProperties > > If prop.Name = "BezoekRapportID" Then > > strFileNamePart = prop.Value > > Exit For > > End If > > Next > > This is looking for a custom property called "BezoekRapportID" and > setting strFileNamePart to the value of that property. Have you set > an appropriate Name/Value in the the documents properties under the > "Custom" tab? > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:44:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:44:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4C@main2.marlow.com> It didn't 'crash'. It just stopped. The error handler did grab it, and safely shutdown the service. I have no idea why I didn't set the fields to 255, I just wasn't thinking! LOL If I walk out the door here, and they run into an error, then I get hired back as a consultant! Actually, error handler or not, if an error occurs, and your error handler does nothing more then post the message, if it's an error they want to program around, you are still going to be correcting it. Now, if you could write an error handler to 'fix' every possible error, let me know, that would be a neat trick......or, it would take years to build, and megabytes of mde or exe space! LOl. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Drew, I thought it was odd that your indexer would just crash (or maybe I'm not understanding) because of size limits. On another note about error handling: What happens when you walk out the door (not the applications you wrote) and there is no error handling? You're right, you'll probably get flamed big time for admitting this, so I'll leave you alone on it. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:47:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:47:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4D@main2.marlow.com> No, because 'not limiting the size' isn't changing the data type. Memo fields do not act like text fields. There is a difference. Ever try to group a memo field in a query? Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Let's not cheapen this issue with bad theatrics. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:48:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:48:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4E@main2.marlow.com> Quite frankly wasn't expecting a 'word' to be that long. That's why I didn't truncate it. If we ever hit the 255 mark, I'll dig into the source for that, and truncate it at 255 characters. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Why don't you just truncate the indexing? What words are you indexing that are over 100 characters. There certainly can't be that many. I wouldn't mind if the results for searching were less accurate for these larger words as long as I get back more results and not less results. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, just stops. Well, it did. Now it will stop if a word goes over 255 characters. Let's not test it thought, cause I don't want to have to build it to handle more then 255 characters per word. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Does it blow up when it reaches words that are 100 characters? Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various WOW, that's gotta be interesting. Is it just indexing the first several characters, or does it go and index the entire thing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In 2002 you can index memo fields, Drew. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Several issues with Memo fields. Can't be indexed. Can't be grouped. Can't have lookups assigned to them (). Also, the reasoning behind setting a 255 character limit is not to give the user unlimited space to store data, it is to not limit the user unnecessarily. There is a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know that I jumping in the middle but... By setting the field to 255 aren't you still imposing a limit. Why not set it to memo to be safe? (playing devils advocate) I know there are reasons not to set to memo and I'm not suggesting you do so. I'm just pointing out that maybe you setting it to 255 is going to get you burned in another way down the road. Don't ask me what other way because your reasoning for setting it to 255 is for things unforeseen. I understand where you are coming from. Like Brett I'm just surprised hearing that you do set it to 255. Not arguing (maybe I'll start setting mine to 255), just thinking of the flip side. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 15:51:31 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:51:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4F@main2.marlow.com> Yes, I can setup a business rule that ensure the client enters data into a field. I can check for characteristics of that data. I just can't guarantee that a user is never going to do something wrong. It's impossible. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, it's up to your interface and business logic layers to control them. The client just applies penalties. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I still wouldn't have a problem with that, because it's the clients data. I can setup business rules as they request, but I can't control THEIR users. That's up to them to do. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various << I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. You probably wont until you get a piece of data, "ridiculously long" , that you probably don't want in the database anyway. (ie. "John Jacob Smith, Jr." in the FIRSTNAME field). Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Wasn't trying to be argumentative on this one. I have just been bitten by 'limited' text field sizes quite a bit, and never the other way around. I can appreciate your point of view, and style. I think I just bristled at the 'ridiculously long' comment. 255 characters is not that long, and I have yet to actually have any issues with setting my fields to that. Cool? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 >ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, >by default? I thought that we had already established the whole database size thing. Allow me to clarify: I do not limit field sizes to save space in the database. I am aware that smaller field length limits do not mean a smaller database. Field size limits are part of data validation. Nothing more, nothing less. Do I set my fields to 50 by default? Of course not, that makes about as much sense as setting them to 255. I set them to the appropriate length for the anticipated data. Let's take a first name for example: Is it reasonable to expect a 255 character first name? No. That would be, uh, RIDICULOUS (thus my comment). 50 would be more than enough. How about 35? Likely, yes. I can already hear the voices of outrage now. "What if you someone has a 36 character first name? Your system would blow up. Wouldn't it just be easier to allow 50 and avoid this possibility?" First of all, it wouldn't blow up (like other apps I've heard mentioned today), it would gracefully limit the size. More importantly, my reports have been designed to meet this design tolerance. If I allowed 50 characters when 35 is more than ample, I would need to rework my reports to allow the larger fields. "Why don't you just truncate the field on the report?" is the next question, to which I say "Because the user thinks that what they just entered is OK, and it clearly isn't". If they can see that the system doesn't allow a 36 character name, they are aware of the limitation, as opposed to the surprises down the road when their output gets clipped. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various "if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes" Ridiculously long? It takes no more room in the db. How is 255 ridiculously long? Just curious. Do you set all of your fields to 50, by default? An example using the actual list, when I built my archive indexer, I happen to set the 'word' size limit to 100 characters. I figured when could you possibly ever get a word over 100 characters long? My code chunks words at any non-alphanumeric characters. Well back in September, the code ran into a string of alpha characters over 100 characters long. Bang, indexing service stopped. Grrrrr..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Interesting perspective... One assumption that I made in my comments was that this discussion was focused around Access application development. If you set a field size to 35 characters and try to type in more in a bound Access form, it won't let you. No code, no "unsaved" records. It just restricts the length. Period. If you are writing an ASP page, or a VB front-end (which I do quite frequently), then I can understand your argument. Since the presentation layer is disconnected from the data, you lose the data-bound validation that Access inherently provides. However, I would still contend that the database schema is the best place to store that info. One could easily write code in their app to enforce the database field size rules. Should their needs change, open the table designer and update the schema. No redesign or coding required (unless of course the size difference is so great it causes forms or reports to obscure the data). Now, if your chief reason for choosing ridiculously long field sizes is that your programs will accept any size input but will blow up if it is beyond a certain size, we are on two completely different islands here. I would humbly suggest that you learn about buffer overflow errors (especially since these vulnerabilities were discovered in IIS a few years ago, and made several ASP sites targets of hacker attacks). -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Good questions. First of all, if a user needs 255 characters, isn't it our job to provide that to them? In my previous 'state abbreviation' example, the 'need' for setting a two character limit is non-existant, it should be done in the FE, not in the BE design. We are all kind of harping on 'set' fields, where a limit is usually a pretty well educated guess, or even an established fact, barring no future changes. Let me give you a different (real life) example. I wrote an ASP version of a paper form. The original developer (who I was actually working for) had some unusual quirks in his system, too many to get into with email. However, to handle certain issues, I had to 'ignore' a lot of errors. Not really a problem, unless of course the errors are telling you that data isn't being written for one reason or another. The system started as an Access BE, but was later converted to SQL Server, with all of the 'limitations' that were built into the Access BE. One such limitation was a fie! ld 'Exact Location where accident occurred'. This field was set to a 35 character max. Because of the forced errorhandling, some people weren't getting that field's data saved, because they were putting in more then 35 characters. Quite frankly, the database I was 'using' should have been completely redesigned. It is something the original developer and I have talked about many times. So the 35 character limit is just a drop in the bucket. However, if that limit wasn't set, then an issue would have never arisen about it. I'll be honest with you, I don't write a heck of a lot of Access reports. A large majority of my FE stuff (including reports) is done in ASP. However, when I do use Access, I size the report fields so that they display what would be normal data. You can always set the 'Can grow' property. Besides, I would personally rather get called to change the size of a report's field, then get told that they cannot entire data into my database. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that setting field size limits is wrong. If I did, sorry, it's not wrong, I've just been burned many times on the issue. But then again, I've been burned on all sorts of other things, which just didn't work when circumstances changed. I have yet to be burned with setting the fields to their max size. Several people have brought up very valid reasons as to why they use different max field sizes. Your point about report fields is certainly a valid argument. However, I haven't had to work on anything from people on this list (with the exception of Mike Mattys, and I have absolutely no complaints there!). In the cases where I have been burned by previous developers setting field limits, I would be willing to bet a round of beers, that 9 out of 10 times, the limits were set due to the myth that setting the field size smaller decreases the size of your database. So if you set a limit, and you have a valid reason to do so, more power to you! Seriously. I am just griping on where I have been burned, and trust me, not a single 'limit' that has burned me was set for the reasons brought up so far! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I've been watching this thread for a while now, and need to ask this question to Drew and JC: If you always allow 255 characters for your text fields, do you format your forms and reports to display that size of data? Drew, you talk about being "burned by these limitations". It would seem to me that if your report's fields are not wide enough and truncate the field contents, you have effectively imposed that limitation. However, you have done it in a much more insidious way, by allowing the user to type in a long string and then not displaying its full contents in the output. This seriously breaks one of my cardinal design rules of accepting user input that the system is not able to process. Of course, I'm assuming that you don't display all 255 characters. If my assumption is wrong and you actually do leave enough room for all 255, doesn't this result in pretty weird looking tabular reports? How many 255 character fields can you fit across an 8 1/2 X 11" piece of paper? 1? 2 perhaps? Have you ever encountered users that misuse the fields? I have (in almost every company I've worked for). Doesn't allowing the entry of 255 characters in any text field (say Address 2) invite the careless user to treat it as the Memo field they forgot to ask for? Seems like sloppy programming to me. And very surprising comments from developers who preach about following good data modeling practices. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Yes, the page file size needs to be taken into consideration. I set all of my text fields to 255. I do this because I don't want to be backed into a wall, because I set a size limit that prevents a user from entering what they need to enter. If I provide a phone number field, and set it to 10 (area code and phone number), sure, I am 'limiting' the client. However, what happens when they want to put in an international number. Or if the US decides to move to 8 digit phone numbers. Who knows, there are all sorts of reasons that the field size may change. Now, if I have some sort of logic checking data integrity, that would have to be changed, but if I don't, by having the field size set to 10, I am limiting the users at the table level, to a point where they cannot do their job. If I have it set to 255, I am 99.99999% they would never put 255 characters into that field, but they may put in 11, or 12, etc. Oh well, this really isnt' something I feel like arguing about. I see your point J?rgen, but this is really a case of who has been burned and how. I have been burned over and over by previous developers putting such limitations into their databases. I have never been burned by the page file size. In fact, I completely forgot that the limit even existed, until it popped up on the list a few weeks ago. So that is why I set my default text field size to 255. Drew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue May 25 15:53:50 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:53:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move freely between pages. Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? MArtin From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 16:05:05 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:05:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <42770-2200452252155615@christopherhawkins.com> Even if you present garbage? ;) -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jmhla at earthlink.net >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>California >> >> >> >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >> >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >>405 >>Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >> >>3. Who would be attending? >> >>4. Who would like to present? >> >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >> >>6. Who has a projector we can use? >> >> >> >> >> >>JOE HECHT >> >>LOS ANGELES CA >> >> >> >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 16:09:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Even if you present garbage? ;) -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: jmhla at earthlink.net >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>California >> >> >> >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >> >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >> >>3. Who would be attending? >> >>4. Who would like to present? >> >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >> >>6. Who has a projector we can use? >> >> >> >> >> >>JOE HECHT >> >>LOS ANGELES CA >> >> >> >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 16:14:56 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:14:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <37390-220045225211456575@christopherhawkins.com> Who, me? *looking innocent* Heh. I wasn't even there. I will prepare a presentation entitled 'Crap You Already Know How To Do, But Charlotte Said I Had To Present So Here It Is" :P -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 >Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Even if you present garbage? ;) > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > >>Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >> >> >>P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've >done >>anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... >> >>-C- >> >>---- Original Message ---- >>From: jmhla at earthlink.net >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >> >>>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>>California >>> >>> >>> >>>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >>> >>>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from >the >>>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >>> >>>3. Who would be attending? >>> >>>4. Who would like to present? >>> >>>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >>> >>>6. Who has a projector we can use? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>JOE HECHT >>> >>>LOS ANGELES CA >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 16:24:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:24:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: OK, I think that will fit. ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Who, me? *looking innocent* Heh. I wasn't even there. I will prepare a presentation entitled 'Crap You Already Know How To Do, But Charlotte Said I Had To Present So Here It Is" :P -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 >Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Even if you present garbage? ;) > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > >>Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >> >> >>P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've >done >>anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... >> >>-C- >> >>---- Original Message ---- >>From: jmhla at earthlink.net >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >> >>>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >>>California >>> >>> >>> >>>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. >>> >>>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from >the >>>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd >>> >>>3. Who would be attending? >>> >>>4. Who would like to present? >>> >>>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? >>> >>>6. Who has a projector we can use? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>JOE HECHT >>> >>>LOS ANGELES CA >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com Tue May 25 16:54:24 2004 From: Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com (Paul Baumann) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:54:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: <5068EFF1BA3C1D4485B77CEC1CBBAAD526228C@farley.rtctech.com> Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? Paul Baumann ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal For more information please visit www.rtctech.com ##################################################################################### From marcus at tsstech.com Tue May 25 16:57:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:57:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: < Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Let's not cheapen this issue with bad theatrics. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 17:22:07 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:22:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001601c442a6$ba8e2a60$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Presenting is not a requirement. I need some people to present to make this work. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: jmhla at earthlink.net To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the >405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue May 25 17:23:55 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:23:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: <001701c442a6$fa75b940$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Does someone have a way to record it. There is no web access in the planned room. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Tue May 25 17:29:05 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:29:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD941281A@bross.quiznos.net> docmd.RunCommand acCmdLinkedTableManager Will do it -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? Paul Baumann ############################################################################ ######### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal For more information please visit www.rtctech.com ############################################################################ ######### -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue May 25 17:32:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:32:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> I think JC is agreeing with me on this, and I think you have a disconnect on what is a necessary limit, and what is an arbitrary limit. 255 characters is a necessary limit. It is set by the fact that a text field is defined to take up from 1 to 256 bytes. 1 byte is for the size actually stored, the rest leaves up to 255 characters of space. That is built into Jet. The only way around that limit is to either 'join' two or more text fields together (which I have done on RARE occasions), or use a Memo field. Memo fields can hold quite a bit more, however, there are drawbacks with Memo fields. However, the line between when to use one or the other is pretty clear. Is the field in question a data point, or is it a storage bin? In other words, is the field going to represent one particular fact? If it is a single fact, yet it may go over 200 characters, then either a second text field needs to be defined for carryover, or a memo field should be used. 20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but the textbox can be changed with little fuss. Let's say you put gas in your car once a week. Would you only put in the amount you expect to use for the week, or would you completely fill your tank? If you only put in what you expect to use, if something UNEXPECTED happens, you'll run out of gas, which is exactly what you do to your users if you set arbitrary limits. They'll be driving along, cruising down the data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not yours. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Let's not cheapen this issue with bad theatrics. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, I am not being ridiculous nor taking it personally. I do everything I do for a reason. I question everything. If I am told to make a field 20 characters I want to know why. If I am told not to run my tires under 28 lbs I want to know why. There are reasons for rules, and it is important to understand WHY the rule exists. You cannot make intelligent decisions on when a rule can safely be broken or ignored if you don't understand the reason it exists to begin with. I see no reason for arbitrarily limiting my users text fields, and you can't tell me that "I limit the address field to 25 characters" isn't arbitrary, it absolutely is. Pick a number out of thin air and that's what is being used. It simply isn't my business, it is their business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Now you are being ridiculous. These are just examples. I think you would rarely run into and address line greater than 50, but that's not the point. There are things like the backend up grader to do these jobs for you. Don't take it personal, I just find this an interesting and entertaining topic. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, you apparently have the benefit of unlimited freedom in your database, sitting on site all day just waiting for your users to ask you to expand a field. I have NO client closer than 45 miles from my office. Some are in other states. Of course I'll just jump on a plane and go do that. Or walk the client through doing it. In any case, boot all the users while I do it. And of course they can't enter the data until I do. Hmmmm.... sounds like a curious definition of customer service. Why do I care if they enter 50 characters in the address2 field? If that is what the address is, then they need to be able to enter that. The chance that it will be > 255 is so small that it isn't worth discussing so why are discussing it? The chances that it will be bigger than 25 are pretty good. My job is to design a database that requires as little intervention on my part as they can get away with. I charge them by the hour to increase the size of the field. Come to think of it, I suppose I should just start with all fields at 10 characters and let the money pour in as I go back time and again to "increase the field size". Sounds rather silly when stated that way doesn't it? And what is the benefit? What have you gained? (other than LOTS of extra money increasing field sizes) The person also mentioned that if you are allowing your users to directly enter two digit state codes you have bigger problems than field lengths. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 18:05:46 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:05:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Table Export to text - decimals truncate In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4C@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: <40B45DEA.12461.5764CC8@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 12:30, Martin Kahelin wrote: > That works except it turns the value (last) to a string like this > > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,"0.4375" > > I need it as a value > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.4375 > > export keeps chopping the the data to > "0444","COST","011100007","REG","O21",536.00,,0.43 > > -does it in acc97 and acc2002 > One of the reasons I never use TranferText to do exports. :-) If you roll your own, you can format any way you want. Here's a DAO example (outline, aircode, so will need tweaking) Function Quoted( PlainString) as String Quoted = Chr$(34) & PlainString & CHr$(34) End Function Function ExportQuery() as Long Dim rs as Recordset Dim strExport as String Set rs= CurrentDB.OpenRecordset("myQuery") Open "MyData.csv" for Output as #1 Do While Not rs.eof Print #1, Quoted(rs(0)) & "," & Quoted(rs(1) & "," _ Quoted(rs(2)) & "," & Quoted(rs(3) & "," _ Format(rs(4),"0.00") & "," & rs(5) & "," _ Format(rs(6),"0.0000") Loop Close #1 End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 18:09:24 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:09:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: The linked table manager is an add-in that, in my experience, is not installed by default in 97 and 2000 versions. I have yet to work in an envrionment where this add-in was available when I walked in the door so the DoMenuItem and RunCommand approaches have been of little use. You will be better served in the long run to set the connect property of a tabledef object and then call the refreshlink method of that tabledef object. This is especially true if your users may be in unknown environments. Rolling your own relinking code is not difficult and allows you to simplify the procedure for users by stipulating which tables may be relinked without asking the users to make selections. User 'interference' can get really ugly if you have multiple backend files of varying types in various locations where some may be ISAM, others ODBC and yet others native Access files. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mackin, Christopher" > >docmd.RunCommand acCmdLinkedTableManager > >Will do it > >-Chris Mackin > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:54 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code > > >Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? > >Paul Baumann _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 18:11:14 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Tue May 25 18:12:15 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:12:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question Message-ID: Mental block here ... if I am using a text box to display text in the format ="this is my text" & [text field] & "." how do I use Char13 to cause a carriage return? I am having a mental block and can't for the life of me remember how to do this. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange Ph: 02 6391 3250 Fax:02 6391 3290 This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From my.lists at verizon.net Tue May 25 18:28:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:28:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B3D693.4020003@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! -- -Francisco From Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com Tue May 25 18:18:09 2004 From: Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com (Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:18:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION Message-ID: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got it to run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. The query results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. select Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays from tblPrCas Thanks, Paul ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 18:42:11 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:42:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B46673.28715.597A40F@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 11:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > Like most things in life, the reason gets lost in the mists of time and > become embedded in the "rules". > > I read a very funny story once. > > A woman was teaching her young daughter how to cook a ham. The mom's > instructions were to cut the end off the ham, add the glaze, etc etc. The > daughter asks "why do we cut the end off the ham". Mom replies... uhhh... > I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask my mom. Grandma > says ... uh... I don't know, that's just how I was taught. Lets go ask > great grandma. Great grandma says "You don't need to cut the end off the > ham. I just did that because I only had a short pan and I needed to make > the ham fit". > > Question EVERYTHING! > Although www.snopes.com is fairly sceptical about all the facts, I still like this one: Here is a look into the corporate mind that is very interesting, educational, historical, completely true, and hysterical all at the same time: The US standard railroad gauge (width between the two rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates. Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons which used that wheel spacing. Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts. So who built those old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe (and England) were built by Imperial Rome for their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots first formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for (or by) Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Specifications and bureaucracies live forever. So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right, because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses. Thus, we have the answer to the original question. Now the twist to the story . . . There's an interesting extension to the story about railroad gauges and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory had to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses' behinds. So, the major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a Horse's Ass! -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 18:50:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:50:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B3D693.4020003@verizon.net> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B4686E.6633.59F6078@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 16:28, Francisco H Tapia wrote: > > > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a > consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be > too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size > of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make > my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really > make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to > do so? > > Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you > "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers > use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that > by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect > as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will > improve your storage needs. No it won't! That's the whole point. In "days gone by", you had to determine the size of text fields because db engines allocated the full amount of that space for every record whether you used it or not. In Access, SQL Server etc, whether you define the field size as 20 or 255, makes NO difference to the size of the resulting database. There is now NO reason to arbitrarily limit the size of a text field below the system limit of 255 characters. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 18:52:35 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:52:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: Message-ID: <03c501c442b3$5a8e2220$6601a8c0@HAL9002> If I remember the last conference it would have been nice if someone had presented a case of cold beer around 3pm. You have to do a presentation. But the subject has not been limited. (Sorry, no singing.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > Even if you present garbage? ;) > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > > >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done > >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > > > >-C- > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: jmhla at earthlink.net > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >>California > >> > >> > >> > >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >> > >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >> > >>3. Who would be attending? > >> > >>4. Who would like to present? > >> > >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >> > >>6. Who has a projector we can use? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>JOE HECHT > >> > >>LOS ANGELES CA > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 18:53:27 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:53:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: <37390-220045225211456575@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <03cb01c442b3$79a481e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Catchy title. And everyone will learn a great deal while pretending to be bored.. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Hawkins" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Who, me? *looking innocent* > > Heh. I wasn't even there. > > I will prepare a presentation entitled 'Crap You Already Know How To > Do, But Charlotte Said I Had To Present So Here It Is" > > :P > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:09:30 -0700 > > >Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >Even if you present garbage? ;) > > > >-C- > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > > > >>Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > >> > >>Charlotte Foust > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM > >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >> > >> > >>P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've > >done > >>anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > >> > >>-C- > >> > >>---- Original Message ---- > >>From: jmhla at earthlink.net > >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >> > >>>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >>>California > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >>> > >>>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from > >the > >>>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >>> > >>>3. Who would be attending? > >>> > >>>4. Who would like to present? > >>> > >>>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >>> > >>>6. Who has a projector we can use? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>JOE HECHT > >>> > >>>LOS ANGELES CA > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 18:54:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:54:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question References: Message-ID: <03d501c442b3$9e98f4e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> & Chr(13) or & vbCrlf. I think that will work. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question > > Mental block here ... if I am using a text box to display text in the > format ="this is my text" & [text field] & "." > > how do I use Char13 to cause a carriage return? I am having a mental block > and can't for the life of me remember how to do this. > > > Connie Kamrowski > > Analyst/Programmer > Information Technology > NSW Agriculture > Orange > > Ph: 02 6391 3250 > Fax:02 6391 3290 > > > This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain > confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received > it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed > are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of > their organisation. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 19:12:11 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:12:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Ah, but then none of us would have been awake for dinner! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference If I remember the last conference it would have been nice if someone had presented a case of cold beer around 3pm. You have to do a presentation. But the subject has not been limited. (Sorry, no singing.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Are you referring to *JCs* presentation?? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:05 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > Even if you present garbage? ;) > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:44:53 -0700 > > >Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:56 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > > > >P.S. I'd even be willing to present, although I'm not sure I've done > >anything interesting enough to present on. Hmmm... > > > >-C- > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: jmhla at earthlink.net > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > > >>I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >>California > >> > >> > >> > >>1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >> > >>2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >>405 Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >> > >>3. Who would be attending? > >> > >>4. Who would like to present? > >> > >>5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >> > >>6. Who has a projector we can use? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>JOE HECHT > >> > >>LOS ANGELES CA > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 19:15:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:15:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: It was an add-in in 97 and earlier but in 2000 and later it is part of the database utilities. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code The linked table manager is an add-in that, in my experience, is not installed by default in 97 and 2000 versions. I have yet to work in an envrionment where this add-in was available when I walked in the door so the DoMenuItem and RunCommand approaches have been of little use. You will be better served in the long run to set the connect property of a tabledef object and then call the refreshlink method of that tabledef object. This is especially true if your users may be in unknown environments. Rolling your own relinking code is not difficult and allows you to simplify the procedure for users by stipulating which tables may be relinked without asking the users to make selections. User 'interference' can get really ugly if you have multiple backend files of varying types in various locations where some may be ISAM, others ODBC and yet others native Access files. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mackin, Christopher" > >docmd.RunCommand acCmdLinkedTableManager > >Will do it > >-Chris Mackin > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Baumann [mailto:Paul.Baumann at rtctech.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:54 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code > > >Is there any way to open the Linked Table Manager from code? > >Paul Baumann _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue May 25 19:19:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:19:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question Message-ID: Where are you trying to cause a carriage return, in the display? vbCRLF is the equivalent of Chr(13) + Chr(10). In some cases, trying to use them in the data displayed causes the appearance of mysterious little boxes which represent the non-printing characters. I usually handle this in code instead and set the text box value to the resulting string. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au [mailto:connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question Mental block here ... if I am using a text box to display text in the format ="this is my text" & [text field] & "." how do I use Char13 to cause a carriage return? I am having a mental block and can't for the life of me remember how to do this. Connie Kamrowski Analyst/Programmer Information Technology NSW Agriculture Orange Ph: 02 6391 3250 Fax:02 6391 3290 This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 19:20:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:20:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Quick Question In-Reply-To: <03d501c442b3$9e98f4e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40B46F86.698.5BB185A@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 16:54, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > & Chr(13) or & vbCrlf. I think that will work. > > Rocky > You need both CR and LF, so ..."& Chr$(13) & Chr$(10) & ...." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 20:01:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:01:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF54@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Visit a strip club? I think we can safely close this thread with the observation that we have the "law enforcement" developers who want to protect their users from themselves, and the "assume their adults and let their boss worry about the children" developers. As it happens I absolutely believe in protecting the user from themselves, but not at the expense of preventing valid data entry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think JC is agreeing with me on this, and I think you have a disconnect on what is a necessary limit, and what is an arbitrary limit. 255 characters is a necessary limit. It is set by the fact that a text field is defined to take up from 1 to 256 bytes. 1 byte is for the size actually stored, the rest leaves up to 255 characters of space. That is built into Jet. The only way around that limit is to either 'join' two or more text fields together (which I have done on RARE occasions), or use a Memo field. Memo fields can hold quite a bit more, however, there are drawbacks with Memo fields. However, the line between when to use one or the other is pretty clear. Is the field in question a data point, or is it a storage bin? In other words, is the field going to represent one particular fact? If it is a single fact, yet it may go over 200 characters, then either a second text field needs to be defined for carryover, or a memo field should be used. 20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but the textbox can be changed with little fuss. Let's say you put gas in your car once a week. Would you only put in the amount you expect to use for the week, or would you completely fill your tank? If you only put in what you expect to use, if something UNEXPECTED happens, you'll run out of gas, which is exactly what you do to your users if you set arbitrary limits. They'll be driving along, cruising down the data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not yours. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < Message-ID: Not your imagination. I won! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Tue May 25 20:05:24 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:05:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. In-Reply-To: <40B46F86.698.5BB185A@localhost> Message-ID: Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult to even get the .dll set up and registered... Any idea's or help would be great! Thanks!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Tue May 25 20:11:27 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:11:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <186520-22004532611127781@christopherhawkins.com> *nodding* I was thinking that yesterday. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:14 -0700 >Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK >vs >Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument >with everyone insisting *they* won?? > >Charlotte Foust >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au Tue May 25 20:12:53 2004 From: connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au (connie.kamrowski at agric.nsw.gov.au) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:12:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Quick Question - solved Message-ID: Thanks Heaps Stuart .... This one worked You need both CR and LF, so ..."& Chr$(13) & Chr$(10) & ...." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient or received it in error, please delete the message and notify sender. Views expressed are those of the individual sender and are not necessarily the views of their organisation. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue May 25 20:13:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:13:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B3D693.4020003@verizon.net> Message-ID: >Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolerance. Hey, at least you are giving a valid method of determining and a semi valid reason for using a specific size. Of course it is unclear how you are going to determine that 53 is the biggest you ever got if you limit the size to 20 up front. >but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. In Access that simply isn't so. >Not limiting fields is just plain careless! Says you. Limiting text fields without a valid business reason is just silly (and arrogant as well). (says me) I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database is it. Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! From lawhonac at hiwaay.net Tue May 25 21:41:07 2004 From: lawhonac at hiwaay.net (lawhonac) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Joe Celko Has Published a New SQL Book (Brief Review) Message-ID: Title of the book is: "Joe Celko's Trees and Hierarchies in SQL for Smarties". This book covers topics such as representing trees and hierarchies, hierarchical encoding schemes, graphs, binary trees, and several related topics. From my initial scan, it appears that this book would be valuable in gaining insight on how to solve knotty "exploded parts" and "Generation Breakdown List" type applications. (I know people on this list have occasionally posted queries asking how to program these type applications.) NOTE: This is NOT a "beginners" SQL book. Here's a link to the book on Amazon.com (watch the wrap): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1558609202/qid=1085538624/sr=1 -1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5510817-7703934?v=glance&s=books This book is not cheap ($34.95) but if you have to program these type applications, this book is probably worth its weight in gold. Alan C. Lawhon From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue May 25 21:43:07 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:43:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: I stand corrected by Charlotte on the availability of the linked table manager in Access 2000. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that the best practice route to take is to write and use your own relinker because it gives you the ability to limit the users propensity to mess up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue May 25 21:51:24 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:51:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000501c44203$0c7e37b0$6601a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <40B492CC.24561.644E0F0@localhost> I'm just starting a new project and I'm in two minds about one aspect of the database design. Since this has been discussed so much in the last few days, I thought I'd throw it in for discussion. It's an Accomodation Register type thing for an organisation that has lots of staff housing. AccomodationUnits are children of Properties (Sometimes there will be a house on a property, sometimes a block of several units, possibly dormitory style with individual rooms etc) The client wants to store difital photos. Photos could be of a particular unit or of the whole property. I will be storing the name of the photo file and pulling the image as required from it's storage location. As I see it there are several possibilities including: tblPhotos: AccomUnit/PropertyID AccomUnit/PropertyType Filename.......etc or tblPhotos: AccomUnitID PropertyID Filename.......etc (only store ID for the appropriate Property Type) or tblAccomUnitPhotos: AccomUnit Filename.......etc AND tblPropertyPhotos: PropertyID Filename.......etc Any comments/suggestions as to how far I should normalize and pros/cons of the various approaches - taking into account establishing relationships between tables in the BE, maintaining referential integrity, ease of data retrieval/maintenance in the FE? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue May 25 21:55:32 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:55:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <040001c442cc$e94129e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Robert: I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my code off line if you decide to do the two step. I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, but they don't. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gracie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased > the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult to > even get the .dll set up and registered... > > Any idea's or help would be great! > > Thanks!! > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue May 25 22:23:08 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:23:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c442d0$c78a0ac0$6401a8c0@COA3> >From what I've seen, Linked Table Manager is sort of in-between ... It IS part of Access, not an add-in, in 2000, but if they've done a "mimimum install" of Office, then it's not installed, and you will be asked for the CD if you try to run it. ... Reason enough to re-link via code for me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code I stand corrected by Charlotte on the availability of the linked table manager in Access 2000. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that the best practice route to take is to write and use your own relinker because it gives you the ability to limit the users propensity to mess up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 22:36:24 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:36:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000501c44203$0c7e37b0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: Sorry in advanced for being long winded but some answers take a while to explain. Normalizing a database actual decreases it's performance while improving it's data consistency by removing redundancy. Beyond a certain point the performance hit becomes too much, there is no longer significant improvement to data integrity and that is where a qualified Database designer can carefully de-normalize the database. It is a careful balancing act of performance versus consistency. I understand there are a series mathematical algorisms that can be used calculate the theoritical relationship between these two apparently opposing forces. I do not have immediate access to this set of formulas but have sent an email to a systems-engineer friend of mine and I can pass the information along, if anyone is interested. Some of the members the list probably have access to the 'math' as well. I have a book called 'Structured Systems Analysis' written by Chris Gane and Trish Saron, that I used in a night-school course, up at the University, a 'number' of years ago and it provided a very good over-view of data, database design and the issues around data management. Of the five basic levels of Normalization I have never gone beyond three, in a real application. A number of years ago a systems company won the contract and moved the provinces medical data into an Oracle DB. The resultant system was purist dream. Unfortunately, when the data was ported the system ground to a halt. On-line transactions would take up to fifteen minutes and I heard some reports would take up to four days. My understanding is that the design was normalized down to level 5. The whole design had to be rebuilt and it was; de-normalized back to level 3. Here is a data example that is not normalized but became the method of choice because of it's performance. Given: A table named Staff. Some of the staff are management, supervisors or a regular staff member. What design would give the fastest results? 1. Create two tables one for staff members and another joined table for staff-ranking. When extracting the staff and relationships build a SQL statement that joins the two tables and process same. 2. Add all personnel into the same table and add a field and key for staff-ranking. When extracting the staff from the table build a SQL statement that makes two copies of the table, joins one to the other and then process same. 3. Add an extra field to the staff table that hold the staff ranking number. When extracting the staff from table the SQL uses one table. Even though the method used in number 3 does not result in a normalized table the performance gain is substantial and apparently increases exponentially, relational to any other design structures, when large numbers of staff were added...say Ministry wide. There is a lot of math and case studies that support a balanced position when doing database design. I hope this gives you something to think about. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I have never yet seen a case where denormalization is correct, except in OLAP apps, which are fundamentally different that OLTP apps. I have been overruled by higher-ups on this point several times, and never once been convinced of their correctness. Show me a case in an OLTP app where denormalization is correct, and demonstrate why it is correct as opposed to the "logically correct" model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 3:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various When a database has been completely normalized then to improve the performance, the DB has to be 'carefully' de-normalized. This is where the art comes in, like tuning a guitar. There are many photographers out there who claim to be professional. It is not enough to simply know all the rules of composition, design and colour. There is an indefinable property that makes a photographer a master of their craft. Their ability to interpret what they see and produce can is not fully qualified; if it could be we would all be Masters. The same is true with programming and database design. IMHO Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 22:58:27 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:58:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF42@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hear hear Well said...I could not have said it better. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various What is art anyhow? Art is simply the manipulation of known sciences. I was a music major in college. (For a time). I played trombone, and was on a jazz scholarship. Got to meet lots of people in the jazz world. It was neat. But I turned my love of math (which is what music is based on), into a passion for computers. To me they are very similar. I was a good musician, but I was never able to 'improvise' very well, at least I didn't like what I would improvise. However, I do like what I can 'improvise' on a computer. Science, engineering, art, etc, all work on systems with rules. When you are building a bridge, you have all sorts of factors that are involved, and modern engineers have tons and tons of experience to overcome the normal mundane issues. However, science, engineering and art are also expanding. This isn't done strictly through building upon past experience. Every so often an 'out of the box' solution is required, and when it arrives, that is when science, engineering, and art are alike. Granted, when I have to display records on a web page, or create a data entry form, those are pretty mundane, cut and dry processes. However, when I built the archives for the AccessD list, and found searching through the memo fields to be too lengthy of a process, I built the memo field indexer. That was something I considered art. Sure, it uses the same 'tools' that the mundane processes use, but it was (if I may say so) 'Out of the box' thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 9:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various This is equivocation pure and simple, Drew... Though if you wish to persist with it go ahead. There is IMO no comparison between designing a bridge and writing a sonnet. Not least because in the former case if you f**k up many people will die, while in the latter case no one will read you. I grant you that GUI design is art. But database design is pure science. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Ah, but engineering is also an art. Granted, there are cut and dry cases, that require nothing more then practical knowledge. But when creativity is involved, then you have to have the ability to create, not just 'define'. That is an art. Creating a table to represent an employee doesn't require creativity. Creating a complex table structure to handle something more involved will require creativity. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think it might be useful to separate db design from user interface design. db design, following the discipline of normalization, seems amenable to a fairly objective judgment of good and bad, right and wrong. So that seems to me like science, or really engineering. But the design of the forms, so they they work smoothly and efficiently for the user, and reports, so that they are easily read and give the information the user is looking for, that seems more like art, or more precisely design - like a commercial artist does. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > I would have to say that db design is 90% science, 10% art. I would > agree that in most cases, there is either the right way, or the wrong > way. But the 'art' portion is the ability to see the grand picture, > and create it. > > Kind of like drawing. I can picture a horse, I just can't draw one > very well. I might get close to what my 5 year old can draw, but a > good artist is going to draw something that is immediately > recognizable as a horse. > > Knowing what good db design is, doesn't necessarily mean that you can > take a > particular business application and actually get it into a good db > design. In an abstract sort of way, art is really about expressing > something in a different media. Paintings, sculptures, peoms, > stories, are all thoughts and emotions that are taken from a 'mental' > media, to a physical media. So > taking a business practice, and converting it into a database is also > expressing something in a different media. > > As for programming, I think is the opposite. 90% art, and 10% > science. Certain tasks in programming can certainly seem as mundane as > auto-repair. However, your more complex projects can easily be > compared to a symphony, getting all of the peices to work in harmony. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > I respectfully disagree, at least regarding the design of the > database. As to the programming, I'm agnostic. > > While at the same time admitting artistic pretensions (published > poems, screenplays sold and made, short fiction published, > tabla-player and classical guitar wannabe), I don't see the > connection. I used to subscribe to your opinion but I do no longer. > Long ago, I used to think programming was an art. Now I hold it in not > much greater regard than auto-mechanics. As I see it now, db design is > strictly science: for any given database there is one correct design, > a collection of close-to-correct designs, and a larger collection of > incorrect designs. These stages correspond to the correct scientific > theory, the almost-correct theories, and the flat-earth society. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > It seems to be that database designing and programming is as much a > art form as a science. Science can be learned but it all needs an > artistic bend to apply it, properly...IMHO. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:32 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > This is a thread worth pursuing, IMO. Given db1 with its (bad) > structure, how does one create the queries and execute them to create > db2 with its (good) structure? I've been fighting this problem for the > last few months, and it is decidedly non-trivial. There has to be a > correct way to do it. I'm certain of that. But I haven't found it yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > "Colbyize the user" - Out the door, 20,000 feet, without a parachute. > > For those who were wondering. > > It actually came from the practice of certain South American > "leaders", when dealing with the Shining Path guerrillas (or suspected > guerrillas in too many cases). > > Back to the subject, the unfortunate reality is that the typical > application designed by the typical user often simply can't be > transitioned economically. > > > I "transitioned" one of these things at one of my current clients - a > call center for the Disability Insurance industry. The main table was > over 120 fields that represented about 5 different major entities > (Insurer, Policy Holder, Policy, Claimant, Claim, Physician1, > Physician2 > etc.) plus dozens of "lookup" tables (city, state, Policy Type etc). > They started with a "flat file" data dump from their client (the > insurance company) which they just started adding new fields onto the > end of. > > Needless to say, it took months to analyze the entities and write the > queries to extract the data (normalize the thing). Then it took more > months to build the forms to allow data entry, reports to report the > data etc. Had I been called in at the start it would have been a far > less imposing task. > > They hired me 1/2 time for almost a year to get the thing ported and > running, with more than 1/2 of that time just extracting data. They > USED that data every day and couldn't run the business without it. > > I had to build a system of queries that I could sequence in exactly > the correct order to normalize everything. I had to test it and test > it again to get it all exactly right. Then I had to build up the > forms they would be using after the port. I had to run the > normalization and have a handful of testers do double entry (in the > new and the old) to ensure that it worked, then I had to train the > users in the new system (it simply didn't and COULDN'T look or work > like the old). Finally I had to "throw the switch" one night porting > the data, and make sure I was available on site for the next several > weeks to handle in real time the inevitable issues that arose, to keep > the system running and their client (and the claimants calling the > database users) happy. On top of all THAT I had to keep the old db > running until I could throw the switch. > > Perhaps this isn't a "typical" power user database gone wild, but it > could very well be. And the results are VERY expensive. The company > just doesn't function without the database and the cost of > "transitioning" is astronomical compared to a gradual building up of a > system the right way from the start. > > On a humorous note... the previous "developer" at the company was in > waaaaaay over her head trying to accomplish this stuff. She just > "disappeared" one day, never to be heard from again. My client was > very nervous that I might do the same thing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Thanks, Susan- you hit the nail on the head and have prompted me to > put down some thoughts that have been bothering me for awhile. Hide > the women and children, here goes :-) > > > I have to start by saying upfront my career evolution has been from > the finance/accounting user-to power user-to developer lineage and NOT > the IT side of the world. Frankly, I developed programming skills in > self defense to have control over my own destiny because the IT side > of the business couldn't/wouldn't keep up (even when it reported to > me). My understanding of Access has been need-based and evolved slowly > over time, i.e. I discovered Access and relational databases when > Excel "database" tables could no longer satisfy my needs. For several > years Access wizards and macros were my "state of the art" and I was > happy as a clam. My little databases received "raves" and made me the > office guru to the point I decided to take a college course in Access. > It was at that point I realized I really didn't understand relational > databases and that in fact my "wonderful" databases were all wrong > except for the fact they produced useful results. While I have since > gone on to develop my skills much further (yes, Virginia, I eventually > discovered VBA!) the point is I believe my evolution is more the rule > than the exception. I am willing to wager that in terms of sheer > numbers the vast majority of useful, results producing Access > databases have been created by the user/power user cadre rather than > developers. I know of a major insurance company whose IT group > recently did a nose count of personal Access apps that were floating > around the company. The numbers absolutely shocked them. Here at my > company we have several people who know a lot about the business but > only a little about Access. Nevertheless they are using the tool to > produce very useful results. This is the true "silent majority" of > Access users who are attempting to solve problems on a day to day > basis. This should not surprise anyone because after all the product > was designed as a personal app. It is a tribute to the strength of the > product and the creativity of developers such as those on this list > that Access has evolved far beyond a simple personal tool. The fact > remains, however, personal databases account for the vast majority of > its use. > > With this as background I am very disturbed by Microsoft's apparent > intent to remove Access from the mainstream of evolving apps. I also > was disappointed in Getz's column a few months ago summarizing a wish > list for the next Access version. It seems to me Access must stay true > to its roots and those roots are as a personal app. What does this > mean at the practical level? The self taught user runs into trouble > not with the small apps that, however constructed, they can still get > their arms around and validate the results. Its when these apps morph > into mission critical monsters that have grown in size and complexity > to the point where the non IT professional can no longer ensure valid > results that things usually hit the fan. Typically these apps spin off > into space before developers are called in for pooper scooper patrol. > So what is the solution? It would be tremendous if Access could be > given additional tools/wizards/internal training screens/magic to ease > the transition in the database life cycle from user app to developer > maintainable code. While it might be fashionable to always say we > should "colbyize" the users, on their side of the fence they have even > harsher terms of endearment for the IT crowd. It is certainly not > realistic to say users should keep hands off and leave all the > development to the pros. I believe the more understanding users gain > about relational databases by hands on efforts the better off we all > are. Having users in effect "prototype" apps by taking a shot at > building it also can save time compared with a blank sheet of paper > where the developer is forced to play 20 questions trying to divine > what users "really" want. If tools could somehow be developed to > smooth the user-to-developer transition we would all be winners > IMNSHO. So I throw it out to the group, what sort of improvements > could be made to Access to lower the user learning curve and smooth > the handoff of projects from user to developer? > > > That's my story and I'm sticking to it > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > Arthur -- do you know who wrote the original app? Was it someone > in-house that had to put together something because s/he was told to? > Access is as much a user database as a development tool -- that's what > makes it so alluring to such a wide audience. If the boss tells you > the department needs such and such, and you're not a database > developer, know onlyh a little about Access, you might come up with > crap from a developmental perspective > -- but if the crap works... Of course, eventually, they probably are > going to have to call in someone that really understands the issues, > but for awhile -- it works. That's not a bad thing -- and I don't know > that that's even the situation in your case Arthur -- but I think it > happens a lot. > > And a lot of so called developers produce crap -- especially the > geniuses in other areas that think Access is a toy and that anyone can > "do it." Those folks irritate me because invariably their stuff is > inefficient and laborious -- but it "looks" difficult and that's what > people expect to see, so they must know what they're doing, right? :) > > My personal favorite is developers that claim it can't be done without > code. Yeah... Right... > > But, the crap issue -- it's why I don't do it -- I'd produce more crap > than good stuff in today's environment. I can sling out little stuff > with the best of you, but once you get into the multi-user issues, I'd > rather visit a dentist. > > Susan H. > > I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to > get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even > have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid > exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified > people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 22:58:35 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:58:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000b01c4427d$6ef08c20$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: Hi Joe: If you can get a firm enough date and place we can post the 'Conference' on our DBA site and add detail as it become available. It should than be easy to check on the progress and the number of participants. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 23:08:40 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191B4F@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Message-ID: Sound like an idea worthy of pursuing...there are of course some hurdles...attempted this route at last conference but ran out of time. A quick start could make it a reality.(?) What is needed? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 23:28:56 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:28:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <20040525193322.GKYS1779.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. Just a thought Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I think you could purchase an "opt out" option -- or was that just a request that never made its way to the plan? :) Personally -- you guys really ought to let people attend without forcing them to present -- it's not for everybody. Susan H. Last SoCal conference we had, presenting was a requirement. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue May 25 23:37:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <40B492CC.24561.644E0F0@localhost> Message-ID: The only suggestion I could make was not store pictures in the DB. Extracting them in chunk or using the faster stream mode was still slower than storing the actual pictures, in a directory and then connecting them to the form as needed. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm just starting a new project and I'm in two minds about one aspect of the database design. Since this has been discussed so much in the last few days, I thought I'd throw it in for discussion. It's an Accomodation Register type thing for an organisation that has lots of staff housing. AccomodationUnits are children of Properties (Sometimes there will be a house on a property, sometimes a block of several units, possibly dormitory style with individual rooms etc) The client wants to store difital photos. Photos could be of a particular unit or of the whole property. I will be storing the name of the photo file and pulling the image as required from it's storage location. As I see it there are several possibilities including: tblPhotos: AccomUnit/PropertyID AccomUnit/PropertyType Filename.......etc or tblPhotos: AccomUnitID PropertyID Filename.......etc (only store ID for the appropriate Property Type) or tblAccomUnitPhotos: AccomUnit Filename.......etc AND tblPropertyPhotos: PropertyID Filename.......etc Any comments/suggestions as to how far I should normalize and pros/cons of the various approaches - taking into account establishing relationships between tables in the BE, maintaining referential integrity, ease of data retrieval/maintenance in the FE? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 00:08:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:08:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: <40B492CC.24561.644E0F0@localhost> Message-ID: <40B4B2F9.25126.6C291F0@localhost> On 25 May 2004 at 21:37, Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: > The only suggestion I could make was not store pictures in the DB. > Extracting them in chunk or using the faster stream mode was still slower > than storing the actual pictures, in a directory and then connecting them to > the form as needed. > That's what I always do for photos. I was actually looking for suggestions about the various design options. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed May 26 00:48:51 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:48:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Ooops! Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD92A@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I don't know why but I once had a problem with relationships to. Relationsships are saved in a hidden read only table. That is, read only only when you access by view. You can write some code to read, change and add relationship to that table. So if you have a lot of relations that needs to be moved from the FE to the BE you could consider wrting sme code for it.... Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Arthur Fuller Verzonden: dinsdag 25 mei 2004 21:33 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: [AccessD] Ooops! Ok, we all know I'm prone to idiocy, but that aside.... I have been hopping between FE and BE and I declared relationships in the FE thinking that I was in the BE. The declarations now conflict. (I finally realized that something was wrong because the "Enforce RI" checkboxes were unavailable.) So... The question is, how to fix it. The relationships are all correct in the BE and a few are wrong in the FE. If I delete all the relationships in the FE, will that fix it? If I do nothing, leaving conflicting definitions, what will happen? What I wish is that within the FE, I will simply "see" the relationships declared in the BE. (What I also wish, but that is another story, is that this would work as it does in ADP files, where you can have multiple diagrams, each devoted to a subset of the data.) Recommendations? Should I just kill all the relationships and the whole diagram in the FE? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed May 26 02:08:04 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:08:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c001c442f0$3076e8e0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> For the sake of those on slow lines, and those who are storing the archives, please try to remember to trim your replies. Some of these messages are quite long, and have a zillion copies of the AccessD sig at the bottom. Great discussion though. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 26 03:15:07 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:15:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: <18882975.1085559307132.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Martin, What front-end are you pulling the recordsets into (Web, Access, VB6) ? I know you can use the commands YourRecordset.PageSize=100, YourRecordset.CacheSize, YourRecordset.AbsolutePage=YourPageNumber Not sure how they actually work, haven't used them in working examples before....but if your returning the results to a Web page this might be of interest to you http://www.brettb.com/EasyADORecordSetPaging.asp Paul Hartland Message date : May 25 2004, 09:59 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move freely between pages. Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? MArtin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de Wed May 26 03:19:52 2004 From: Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:19:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] free PDF conversion utility Message-ID: Another free PDF conversion utility is: http://docmorph.nlm.nih.gov/docmorph/default.htm I have not used it so far. Might be of interest anyway. Helmut E. Kotsch From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed May 26 03:29:05 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: <2811877.1085560145886.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Martin, Just came across this web page as well for handling pages using a stored procedure. http://weblogs.asp.net/pwilson/archive/2003/10/10/31456.aspx Paul Hartland Message date : May 25 2004, 09:59 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move freely between pages. Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? MArtin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed May 26 03:32:37 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:32:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <18882975.1085559307132.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Message-ID: <000901c442fc$00da39f0$9111758f@aine> Would be from SQL Server to MS Access. martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Martin, > What front-end are you pulling the recordsets into (Web, Access, VB6) ? > I know you can use the commands YourRecordset.PageSize=100, YourRecordset.CacheSize, YourRecordset.AbsolutePage=YourPageNumber > Not sure how they actually work, haven't used them in working examples before....but if your returning the results to a Web page this might be of interest to you http://www.brettb.com/EasyADORecordSetPaging.asp > Paul Hartland > > > > > > Message date : May 25 2004, 09:59 PM > >From : "Martin Reid" > To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Copy to : > Subject : [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > freely between pages. > > Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > MArtin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Wed May 26 04:14:53 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:14:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <00e701c44301$eb4962e0$3f412d3e@jester> Paul, how can there be 1.33 days between 2 dates?? I think this can only be a whole numer? What does this function show in the immediate window? Maybe you should try it with hours and calculate that to days? HTH, Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:18 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION > I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got it to run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. The query results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. > > StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. > > select > Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays > from > tblPrCas > > > Thanks, > Paul > > > ********************************************************** > This message contains information that is confidential > and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. > It is intended only for the recipient named and for > the express purpose(s) described therein. > Any other use is prohibited. > **************************************************************** > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 04:26:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:26:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION In-Reply-To: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35FC2C@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <267948579.20040526112640@cactus.dk> Hi Paul In that case you are not looking for a difference in days between dates but in hours (or minutes or seconds as to the precision you need) between dates and times. Adjust your code to calculate, say, hours; then divide by 24 to obtain the result in decimal days. /gustav > I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got > it to run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. > The query results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. > StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. > select > Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays > from > tblPrCas From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 04:16:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:16:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <897350759.20040526111642@cactus.dk> Hi Martin If you are using ODBC and do not need bound forms or reports, a separate workspace and ODBCDirect could be useful. Look up the on-line help on this. /gustav > Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > freely between pages. > Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > MArtin From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 04:03:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9E8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <1186581373.20040526110353@cactus.dk> Hi Jim I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and carries out quietly when launched). Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? /gustav > We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It > takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? > This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? > TIA > Jim DeMarco > Director Application Development > Hudson Health Plan From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 05:03:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:03:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION In-Reply-To: <00e701c44301$eb4962e0$3f412d3e@jester> Message-ID: <40B4F81A.9984.7D095E7@localhost> > > > I'm looking to calculate the number of days between two days. I got it to > run perfectly however I want to show one decimal precision. The query > results shows 1.0 when in fact it is really 1.33. > > > > StartDate and ClosedDate are data types. > > > > select > > Avg(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate)) AS TurnDays > > from > > tblPrCas > > Problem is Datediff returns an Integer so AVG also returns an Integer. You need to convert the Integer to a float before calcuating the average. Try Avg(CAST(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate),Float)) AS TurnDays -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 06:01:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:01:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL SERVER DATEDIFF - DECIMAL PRECISION In-Reply-To: <40B4F81A.9984.7D095E7@localhost> References: <00e701c44301$eb4962e0$3f412d3e@jester> Message-ID: <40B505C4.13803.805F710@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 20:03, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Avg(CAST(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate),Float)) AS TurnDays > Make that Avg(CAST(DATEDIFF(day, StartDate, ClosedDate) AS Float)) AS TurnDays -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 06:16:33 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: Francisco, What you have said is exactly why I keep harping on the size issue. It isn't that the field can hold 255 characters, to me that is arbitrary. Well said... Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 05:50:44 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:50:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4D@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF4D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <7112992952.20040526125044@cactus.dk> Hi DWUTKA > Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo > fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So > in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well > move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the > world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Or move the text to separate files - as we do for pictures! /gustav > But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to > saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 06:16:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:16:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7814540918.20040526131632@cactus.dk> Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 06:28:41 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:28:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: You are exactly right... I won! Just kidding, I think we all win. Discussion like this helps me be a better developer. The next time someone asks about a text limit(which almost never happens), all of us will be able to fully present the pros and cons of such limits. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not your imagination. I won! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed May 26 06:30:08 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:30:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. In-Reply-To: <040001c442cc$e94129e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Rocky, Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I will end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! robert at servicexp.com Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. Robert: I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my code off line if you decide to do the two step. I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, but they don't. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gracie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased > the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult to > even get the .dll set up and registered... > > Any idea's or help would be great! > > Thanks!! > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 06:42:51 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:42:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526114249.KPMI1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 06:43:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:43:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Francisco, What you have said is exactly why I keep harping on the size issue. It isn't that the field can hold 255 characters, to me that is arbitrary. Well said... Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM: >255 characters is a necessary limit. > > How? >20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is >made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It >is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but >the textbox can be changed with little fuss. > > > Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a consideration for the lenght of a field. A 20 Character address may be too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size of an address field and have come up with: 53. In Sql Server I can make my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to do so? Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you "should". Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that by a few more as to give a tolarnce. YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will improve your storage needs. Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various sizes of tanks for each car. By your logic they'd be strapping your Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank. >They'll be driving along, cruising down the >data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour >is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the >tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on >longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas >tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to >provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, >having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is >going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. >But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users >a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their >going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, >or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not >yours. > > COMPUTER's are bound by limits. There is only so much RAM, HDD, and SWAP space. When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger database (SQL Server for instance). it's all limits. If you really want to provide the most amount of space for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000 characters per field. HECK you never know they may want to write up the instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS! Not limiting fields is just plain careless! -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 06:49:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:49:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <7814540918.20040526131632@cactus.dk> Message-ID: >I'm the expert. No argument. >Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. No argument. >If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. No argument. IF THERE WERE GOOD REASON. >As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? >Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Today. >Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 06:50:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:50:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, discussion is a good thing. This has dragged on and on over a relatively minor detail hasn't it? Passion is a wonderful thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You are exactly right... I won! Just kidding, I think we all win. Discussion like this helps me be a better developer. The next time someone asks about a text limit(which almost never happens), all of us will be able to fully present the pros and cons of such limits. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Not your imagination. I won! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 06:59:05 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:59:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526115902.KVWC1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. No one cares about that anymore unless they're working with a tremendously large amount of data -- and then, they're probably not using Access. On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. You may not do it, but it is perfectly acceptable. I could take your logic another step and say why bother with data types? I can make the data anything I want using the right conversion function and code, so why bother? Access trainers still teach people that they CAN limit the field's size. It's there, you can use it or not use it. There's nothing wrong with doing so. You're both right -- and you should both use the tools you have the best you can. Period. Susan H. >I'm the expert. No argument. >Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. No argument. >If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I >would tell or simply apply it. No argument. IF THERE WERE GOOD REASON. >As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? >Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Today. >Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the >way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 26 07:17:32 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:17:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open Linked Table Manager from code Message-ID: >> limit the users propensity to mess up << So many comebacks...so little time;) Mark From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Wed May 26 07:19:38 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:19:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCAD@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Guys Although not a great many people are currently subbed to dba-conf, can those of you who are interested in the LA event please subscribe to it now and move this discussion over there? Feel free to post occasional updates to AccessD, but the main discussion of the conference should take place on the dba-conf list which was, after all, set up for precisely that purpose. :) thanks Roz -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] Sent: 25 May 2004 18:27 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 26 07:21:09 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:21:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Gustav. You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP updates/patches might help. I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Hi Jim I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and carries out quietly when launched). Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? /gustav > We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It > takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? > This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? > TIA > Jim DeMarco > Director Application Development > Hudson Health Plan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 07:24:36 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I don't mean space/storage. You are not listening to me. What I'm saying is that there is no business rule telling you to set it to 255, you are picking it because that is a limit of access. That is all I'm saying. It makes no more sense to me to make it 255 characters (which really doesn't matter on storage) than to make it a sensible number based on some sort of logic (which you keep saying I don't do). How do you know how I make my decisions for field size? << That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. I never said I was having any issues. I said that setting the field to 255 arbitrarily may cause an issue down the road. What issue, maybe report problems, I have no idea. At least I know what issues I may have if I set an address field to some size based on some to be determined method. << TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. I've been designing Access DB's since version 1.0 but that alone doesn't make me right and neither do your 10 years of database design. I think that you are a wonderful developer (from what I've seen). This is supposed to be friendly discussion...not personal attacks. I'm not even saying that what you are doing is wrong. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 07:25:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:25:58 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <13918707149.20040526142558@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. I would love to see a fix too! /gustav > Thanks Gustav. > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches might help. > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). > Jim DeMarco > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > Hi Jim > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > carries out quietly when launched). > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > /gustav >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? >> TIA >> Jim DeMarco >> Director Application Development >> Hudson Health Plan From gustav at cactus.dk Wed May 26 07:20:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:20:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1618403853.20040526142055@cactus.dk> Hi John >> As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, >> BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, >> max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and >> would make no sense to store. > If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will > hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances > be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing > books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? Oh please don't hand it to me. Someone asked for a reason to limit text length in text fields; this is one. >> Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer >> than 34 chars. > Today. And tomorrow too. If street names were longer than that they would cause overflow in many systems and, indeed, not be printable on most address labels, thus the name would be shortened for any practical purpose. Someone asked for a reason to limit text length in text fields; this is one more. >> Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, >> is also what Access's table designer suggests. > Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? It doesn't suggest much more than some default zeroes and so. And this one which smells of common sense - nothing more, nothing less. /gustav >> I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >> is it. > In most cases, the client's. >> Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. > If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I > would tell or simply apply it. > As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC > (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, > max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error > and would make no sense to store. > Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is > longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic > address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer > suggests. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 26 08:01:40 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:01:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search results. http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Hi Jim Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. I would love to see a fix too! /gustav > Thanks Gustav. > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches might help. > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). > Jim DeMarco > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > Hi Jim > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > carries out quietly when launched). > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > /gustav >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? >> TIA >> Jim DeMarco >> Director Application Development >> Hudson Health Plan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 08:02:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:02:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <7814540918.20040526131632@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, I wrote my previous response in haste. Let me be crystal clear about this. If you are 100% certain that 50 characters is enough for the field that needs to e entered, and 100% certain that it won't change in the future, then 50 characters is a FINE field length. The same for 20 or 10 characters. My point has always been that the client needs to be able to enter the data they need to enter, regardless of your personal preferences. There have been "Tough for the user if they can't" responses which I cannot appreciate. Again, to be crystal clear... 1) If 50 characters is enough 100% of the time now and in the future, then it is a PERFECT solution. 2) To run an engineering analysis on what IS the correct length for an address, vs a first name, vs a city is (in my opinion) a waste of my time. 50 characters is fine, 255 is fine. 3) If 50 is fine, 255 is fine. I see no gain in restricting it from 255 to 50. 4) This is all a default in Access. I set it to 255 and forget it (and have never seen a problem). If I set it to 50 I now have to at least give a cursory glance (and more importantly remember that it is set to 50) for those instances where 50 may not be enough. It is NOT in your face that you have just restricted data entry to 50. 5) If I get it wrong I have to boot the users and change it. These are JUST my preferences. I have a lot of things to do when designing a database. I have never seen any benefit from limiting my field sizes. I have numerous times had to go in and open up other peoples limits because the "carved in stone employeeid" changed lengths etc. Whatever you do, PLEASE don't tell me I should be limiting the user to 20 characters for an address even if the address can really be bigger (which has been stated in this thread). I suppose I shall just have to live with the title "sloppy developer" if setting and forgetting 255 characters earns me that. I will take solace in the fact that I have more time to do more useful things than make educated guesses and clean up messes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 08:13:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:13:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <20040526115902.KVWC1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan, >Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. And yet this very argument has been raised! >On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. I have no issue with "Can limit the field size". I have an issue with an arbitrary length that MAY limit valid data entry (I thought I had said that). If you are designing something like a state table, and the state table will only hold US states, you can pretty safely limit the code field to 2 characters. It takes no time to figure that out, it takes no time to implement etc. Go for it. If you want to spend your time setting fields like City to 50 characters, go for it. Setting it to 15 I would argue with. Once we go there then what is a valid value? How much time to you spend (and bill the customer for) figuring out EXACTLY the right amount? What if you're wrong? But if that floats your boat, and your customer is willing to pay for it, then by all means go for it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. No one cares about that anymore unless they're working with a tremendously large amount of data -- and then, they're probably not using Access. On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. You may not do it, but it is perfectly acceptable. I could take your logic another step and say why bother with data types? I can make the data anything I want using the right conversion function and code, so why bother? Access trainers still teach people that they CAN limit the field's size. It's there, you can use it or not use it. There's nothing wrong with doing so. You're both right -- and you should both use the tools you have the best you can. Period. Susan H. >I'm the expert. No argument. >Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. No argument. >If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I >would tell or simply apply it. No argument. IF THERE WERE GOOD REASON. >As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC(SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. If you are not using a lookup table for this then you have issues. I will hand you this one I suppose, so lookup tables may in certain circumstances be limited. We are assuming here that we suspect the user will be writing books in the country code fields if we don't get out the handcuffs? >Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Today. >Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the >way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 08:32:17 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:32:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526133214.RJMI1742.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I have no issue with "Can limit the field size". I have an issue with an arbitrary length that MAY limit valid data entry (I thought I had said that). If you are designing something like a state table, and the state table will only hold US states, you can pretty safely limit the code field to 2 characters. It takes no time to figure that out, it takes no time to implement etc. Go for it. If you want to spend your time setting fields like City to 50 characters, go for it. Setting it to 15 I would argue with. Once we go there then what is a valid value? How much time to you spend (and bill the customer for) figuring out EXACTLY the right amount? What if you're wrong? But if that floats your boat, and your customer is willing to pay for it, then by all means go for it. =================I read your response to Gustav just a bit OK and that cleared up your position a great deal. It's a huge thread -- I've missed some of it! So shoot me! ;) Personally, I wouldn't bother with field size unless I had a specific reason to do so. Susan H. From pharold at proftesting.com Wed May 26 09:12:46 2004 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry Harold) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:12:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <20040526133214.RJMI1742.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001a01c4432b$84c22ff0$082da8c0@D58BT131> Some dead horses take longer to kill than others. Perry -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I have no issue with "Can limit the field size". I have an issue with an arbitrary length that MAY limit valid data entry (I thought I had said that). If you are designing something like a state table, and the state table will only hold US states, you can pretty safely limit the code field to 2 characters. It takes no time to figure that out, it takes no time to implement etc. Go for it. If you want to spend your time setting fields like City to 50 characters, go for it. Setting it to 15 I would argue with. Once we go there then what is a valid value? How much time to you spend (and bill the customer for) figuring out EXACTLY the right amount? What if you're wrong? But if that floats your boat, and your customer is willing to pay for it, then by all means go for it. =================I read your response to Gustav just a bit OK and that cleared up your position a great deal. It's a huge thread -- I've missed some of it! So shoot me! ;) Personally, I wouldn't bother with field size unless I had a specific reason to do so. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Wed May 26 09:15:09 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:15:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191BC1@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or system.mdw) -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves > reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on > this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two > most relevant search results. > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure > how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). > > Jim D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Hi Jim > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. > > I would love to see a fix too! > > /gustav > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > problem. > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches > > might help. > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > icon to open a > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > selecting an > > item in a list at that!). > > > Jim DeMarco > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > Hi Jim > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > installed. > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > fires the > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > extensions; Word 2000 > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > > > /gustav > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > whenever they > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > It takes a > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > >> happening and how to stop it? > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > I'm wondering > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > >> TIA > > >> Jim DeMarco > >> Director Application Development > >> Hudson Health Plan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ********************* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only > of the named recipient, and may contain information from > Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this message in error or are not the named > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************** > ********************* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 09:16:54 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:16:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed May 26 09:18:47 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9FD@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Marty but I don't have A2K installed on this client's machine. I'm not sure this will work for a runtime A2K app on a machine that runs O97. Seems simple enough to try first though. Thanks, Jim DeMarco. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or system.mdw) -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves > reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on > this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two > most relevant search results. > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure > how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). > > Jim D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Hi Jim > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. > > I would love to see a fix too! > > /gustav > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > problem. > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches > > might help. > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > icon to open a > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > selecting an > > item in a list at that!). > > > Jim DeMarco > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > Hi Jim > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > installed. > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > fires the > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > extensions; Word 2000 > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > > > /gustav > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > whenever they > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > It takes a > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > >> happening and how to stop it? > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > I'm wondering > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > >> TIA > > >> Jim DeMarco > >> Director Application Development > >> Hudson Health Plan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ********************* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only > of the named recipient, and may contain information from > Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this message in error or are not the named > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************** > ********************* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed May 26 09:47:17 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:47:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... Message-ID: If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables for Properties and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table for photos? tblPhotos PhotoID PhotoPath PhotoDate PhotoComments PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think that would allow the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of anything you track in your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm just starting a new project and I'm in two minds about one aspect of the database design. Since this has been discussed so much in the last few days, I thought I'd throw it in for discussion. It's an Accomodation Register type thing for an organisation that has lots of staff housing. AccomodationUnits are children of Properties (Sometimes there will be a house on a property, sometimes a block of several units, possibly dormitory style with individual rooms etc) The client wants to store difital photos. Photos could be of a particular unit or of the whole property. I will be storing the name of the photo file and pulling the image as required from it's storage location. As I see it there are several possibilities including: tblPhotos: AccomUnit/PropertyID AccomUnit/PropertyType Filename.......etc or tblPhotos: AccomUnitID PropertyID Filename.......etc (only store ID for the appropriate Property Type) or tblAccomUnitPhotos: AccomUnit Filename.......etc AND tblPropertyPhotos: PropertyID Filename.......etc Any comments/suggestions as to how far I should normalize and pros/cons of the various approaches - taking into account establishing relationships between tables in the BE, maintaining referential integrity, ease of data retrieval/maintenance in the FE? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 10:07:52 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:07:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B4B2C8.3060609@verizon.net> John W. Colby wrote On 5/25/2004 6:13 PM: >Says you. Limiting text fields without a valid business reason is just >silly (and arrogant as well). (says me) > >I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >is it. Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > > > But then that argument goes, why not build their database in something like mySQL or Sql Server (MSDE if you need to) in order to give them a maximum value of 8000 characters? hmm? -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 10:09:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:09:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: All the VBA-based versions of Access use mdw for the workgroup. It was Access 2.0 and earlier that used an mda. A97 could still use an mda but the later versions can't. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or system.mdw) -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves > reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on > this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two > most relevant search results. > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure > how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). > > Jim D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Hi Jim > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch I read about it but I'm not sure. > > I would love to see a fix too! > > /gustav > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > problem. > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > updates/patches > > might help. > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > icon to open a > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > selecting an > > item in a list at that!). > > > Jim DeMarco > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > Hi Jim > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > installed. > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > fires the > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > extensions; Word 2000 > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? > > > /gustav > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > whenever they > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > It takes a > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > >> happening and how to stop it? > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > I'm wondering > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > >> TIA > > >> Jim DeMarco > >> Director Application Development > >> Hudson Health Plan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ********************* > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only > of the named recipient, and may contain information from > Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this message in error or are not the named > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ************************************************************** > ********************* > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed May 26 10:13:40 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:13:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <20040526115902.KVWC1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01b601c44334$069fc1b0$6601a8c0@rock> I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 10:18:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:18:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Wed May 26 10:24:05 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:24:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have you tried using UUencode which breaks up file attachments into manageable 64k chunks? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004 From artful at rogers.com Wed May 26 10:27:23 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:27:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01bc01c44335$f132c320$6601a8c0@rock> Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After all, they're on Version 9 or so! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 10:31:55 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:31:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: Arthur, I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when needed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After all, they're on Version 9 or so! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it installed. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 10:44:43 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:44:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B4BB6B.2000603@verizon.net> Scott Marcus wrote On 5/25/2004 7:24 AM: >That's why you have address line 2. > >Just messing with you, John. > > LOL!, good laugh thanks :) -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 10:59:46 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:59:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: <40AE2725.15819.6B50678@localhost> References: <024001c43e88$b2224040$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <40AE2725.15819.6B50678@localhost> Message-ID: <40B4BEF2.8010308@verizon.net> Stuart McLachlan wrote On 5/20/2004 10:58 PM: >On 20 May 2004 at 13:04, Francisco H Tapia wrote: > > > >>yup, but unfortunately that's not a complete answer. I've used >>different variation of the same code and while it works for some users, >>it does not work for all. that's just my personal observation tho... ymmv >> >> >> > >What code would that be? I don't think you've seen my source. > >If they are using a MAPI conpliant system, under what situations have >you found it not working? > > > > > > woops, sorry, catching up on "old" email, one derivative was using code posted from Michael Kaplan, I tested the code several times on Windows 2000 SP1 - 3 (at the time), NT SP6a and Windows 95/98/and ME. using Outlook and Outlook Express as the default mail client. I did not test with Pegasus or Eudora wich some of our users are attached to. In the end what resulted even on systems that were using Outlook Express was that emails were being stuffed in the Outbox of Outlook itself... very very bizar. -- -Francisco From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed May 26 11:19:06 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:19:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC52@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Wed May 26 11:28:46 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:28:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 11:37:10 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:37:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >Arthur, > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when >needed. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >string >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in >that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files >that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. >Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >installed. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From marcus at tsstech.com Wed May 26 12:02:46 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:02:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: << I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) I understood this from the beginning. I love this list. I get a good laugh right when I need it. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Wed May 26 12:09:12 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:09:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191C01@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Have they cought on to the 'stick' yet, or memory on a USB connected camera? What about cameras (on your cell)? C'mon - there's gotta be away to carry info out the door! (LOL) > -----Original Message----- > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:37 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > > Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program > that creates > files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed > Access 97, I > have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. > > Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a > shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC > connections or install > any software. It is also not possible to email certain files > nor to access > an email account from outside the offices except through > Terminal Services, > with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. > Only a few > laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is > not possible for > me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any > attempt to > install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on > the terminal > server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access > application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into > several dozen > files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them > as doc files and > reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic > does not work > with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's > mvps.org site > that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and > running in the > target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some > straight forward > File I/O code that will do the trick. > > They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the > application but my > users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the > 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Charlotte Foust" > > > >Arthur, > > > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some > systems are so > >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed > on machines when > >needed. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > > > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction > >between > >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such > as the author of > >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, > at least among > >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from > my point of > >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do > the same. After > >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > > > >Arthur > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > J?rgen Welz > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > > > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size > that can > >be > > > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've > >been > > > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a > >string > >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like > I'm getting a > >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably > I'm adding some > >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since > it appears I'm > >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > > > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large > graphics files > >in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. > They have an > >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff > >files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will > >not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no > >getting it installed. > > > > > >Ciao > >J?rgen Welz > >Edmonton, Alberta > >jwelz at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994& > DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Wed May 26 12:14:43 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:14:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191C02@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> I think the functionality of mda still works with A2K and A2K2 (don't know about A2K3) but need A2 or A97 to modify info in it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > All the VBA-based versions of Access use mdw for the > workgroup. It was Access 2.0 and earlier that used an mda. > A97 could still use an mda but the later versions can't. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Kahelin [mailto:mkahelin at gorskibulk.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > Trying to remember if this was my solution to the same; > -create a shortcut for both Acc97 and Acc2K. > -put the path/system.db(a/w) on the shortcut line > "C:\Program Files\...\MSACCESS.EXE" /wrkgrp x:\...\system.mda (or > system.mdw) > > -I currently have Acc97 and Acc2K2 installed and have no problems > > mda is Acc97 system extension, mdw for Acc2K > -I find that I cannot add/delete/modify user settings in > system.mda from Acc2K, must use Acc97 > > -does anyone know of other problems with using system.mda > with Acc2K, Acc2K2, Acc2K3? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:02 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > > > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling > > Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine > at all, just > > the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search results. > > > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > > > > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > > > > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from > the second > > link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall > > Access 2000 since it's not present). > > > > Jim D. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:26 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys > Office Watch > > I read about it but I'm not sure. > > > > I would love to see a fix too! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Thanks Gustav. > > > > > You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use > Office 97. So > > > we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this > > problem. > > > Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP > > updates/patches > > > might help. > > > > > I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an > > icon to open a > > > program but never when an app is already running (and by > > selecting an > > > item in a list at that!). > > > > > Jim DeMarco > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are > > installed. > > > Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it > > fires the > > > installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it > to finish. > > > > > I think I read somewhere it has do with the file > > extensions; Word 2000 > > > demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes > too (and > > > carries out quietly when launched). > > > > > Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions > of Access? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one > > >> client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs > > whenever they > > >> choose a name from list box (to display detail records). > > It takes a > > >> few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be > > >> where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is > > >> happening and how to stop it? > > > > >> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. > > I'm wondering > > >> if it's a WinXP issue? > > > > >> TIA > > > > >> Jim DeMarco > > >> Director Application Development > > >> Hudson Health Plan > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > ********************* > > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the > > named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan > > (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > > the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you > > have received this message in error or are not the named > > recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting > > the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or > > calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and > > delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > > ************************************************************** > > ********************* > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 12:40:59 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:40:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> <00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40B4D6AB.40803@shaw.ca> Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount ' Move to the selected page number objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as to best method for performance Sub AdoPaging() 'stolen from http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS Dim CONN_STRING As String Dim CONN_USER As String Dim CONN_PASS As String CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set ' Comment out to use Access 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" 'CONN_PASS = "password" ' END USER CONSTANTS ' Declare our vars Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just iPageSize records Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset ' Get parameters ' set number of records per page iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this ' Set page to show or default to 1 iPageCurrent = 2 ' If you're doing this script with a search or something ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" Debug.Print strSQL ' Now we finally get to the DB work... ' Create and open our connection Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING ' Create recordset and set the page size Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize ' You can change other settings as with any RS 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize ' Open RS objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, adCmdText ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, ' give them the closest match (1 or max) If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" Else ' Move to the selected page objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent ' Start output with a page x of n line ' Show field names in the top row Dim strtitles As String strtitles = "" For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown = 0 Dim strFields As String strFields = "" Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," Next 'I Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf 'clear strfields shown strFields = "" ' Increment the number of records we've shown iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 ' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext Loop ' All done - close table End If ' Close DB objects and free variables objPagingRS.Close Set objPagingRS = Nothing objPagingConn.Close Set objPagingConn = Nothing End Sub Martin Reid wrote: >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move >freely between pages. > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > >MArtin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 26 12:55:06 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:55:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE609@TAPPEEXCH01> How about: Public Sub SplitFile(ByVal strInputFile As String, _ ByVal strOutputDir As String, _ ByVal strFileBase As String, _ ByVal strFileExtension As String) Const cChunkSize = 1024 Const cFileSize = 1048576 Dim lngInFile As Long Dim lngOutFile As Long Dim lngRemaining As Long Dim lngChunkSize As Long Dim lngFileSize As Long Dim lngCtr As Long Dim strBuffer As String If Right$(strOutputDir, 1) <> "\" Then strOutputDir = strOutputDir & "\" End If If strFileExtension <> "" And Left$(strFileExtension, 1) <> "." Then strFileExtension = "." & strFileExtension End If lngInFile = FreeFile Open strInputFile For Binary As lngInFile lngOutFile = FreeFile lngCtr = 1 Open strOutputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension For Binary As #lngOutFile lngRemaining = LOF(lngInFile) Do Until lngRemaining = 0 If lngRemaining > cChunkSize Then lngChunkSize = cChunkSize Else lngChunkSize = lngRemaining End If strBuffer = Space$(lngChunkSize) Get #lngInFile, , strBuffer Put #lngOutFile, , strBuffer lngRemaining = lngRemaining - lngChunkSize lngFileSize = lngFileSize + lngChunkSize If lngFileSize = cFileSize And lngRemaining > 0 Then Close #lngOutFile lngCtr = lngCtr + 1 Open strOutputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension For Binary As #lngOutFile End If Loop Close #lngInFile Close #lngOutFile End Sub Public Sub ReassembleFiles(ByVal strOutputFile As String, _ ByVal strInputDir As String, _ ByVal strFileBase As String, _ ByVal strFileExtension As String) Const cChunkSize = 1024 Dim lngInFile As Long Dim lngOutFile As Long Dim lngRemaining As Long Dim lngChunkSize As Long Dim lngCtr As Long Dim strBuffer As String Dim strSrcFile As String If Right$(strInputDir, 1) <> "\" Then strInputDir = strInputDir & "\" End If If strFileExtension <> "" And Left$(strFileExtension, 1) <> "." Then strFileExtension = "." & strFileExtension End If lngOutFile = FreeFile Open strOutputFile For Binary As #lngOutFile lngInFile = FreeFile lngCtr = 1 strSrcFile = strInputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension Do Until Dir$(strSrcFile) = "" Open strSrcFile For Binary As #lngInFile lngRemaining = LOF(lngInFile) Do Until lngRemaining = 0 If lngRemaining > cChunkSize Then lngChunkSize = cChunkSize Else lngChunkSize = lngRemaining End If strBuffer = Space$(lngChunkSize) Get #lngInFile, , strBuffer Put #lngOutFile, , strBuffer lngRemaining = lngRemaining - lngChunkSize Loop Close #lngInFile lngCtr = lngCtr + 1 strSrcFile = strInputDir & strFileBase & lngCtr & strFileExtension Loop Close #lngOutFile End Sub Alternatively, if the receiving side has shell access, they can reassemble the files using copy: copy /b c:\bitmaps\chunk1.doc + c:\bitmaps\chunk2.doc c:\bitmaps\myfile.tif. -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >Arthur, > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when >needed. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >string >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in >that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files >that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. >Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >installed. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 13:13:12 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:13:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <40B4DE38.4050003@shaw.ca> Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only works for Canadian and US versions You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 Robert Gracie wrote: >Rocky, > Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I will >end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! > >robert at servicexp.com > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >Beach Access Software >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Robert: > >I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. > >I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. > >Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. > >There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >code off line if you decide to do the two step. > >I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >but they don't. > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Gracie" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > > > >> Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >> >> >to > > >>even get the .dll set up and registered... >> >> Any idea's or help would be great! >> >>Thanks!! >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed May 26 13:18:14 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:18:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Disabling Toolbar options Message-ID: Hi All, I have a vbscript that copies of a database and then runs through a number of steps within that database (deleting forms/queries/modules/removing tabs etc) and then creates an mde. Part of this process sets the bypass key to false, but what I would also like to do is limit the menu-bar options as well as remove the users ability to use Access "special keys." Obviously I would like to include this within the script file, so need to do it programatically. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks Ryan Ernst & Young is proud to sponsor Art of the Garden at Tate Britain (3rd June - 30th August 2004). This is the first major exhibition to examine the relationship of the garden and British art. Advance booking is recommended. Information and tickets: www.tate.org.uk/artofthegarden This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed May 26 13:31:09 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:31:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <00a901c44295$171774b0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25><00ad01c4429a$62cdfc80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <40B4D6AB.40803@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001301c4434f$9e14fef0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > in an array > There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > passing them > Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > ' Create recordset and set the page size > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then > Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > iRecordsShown = 0 > Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! > objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed May 26 13:48:27 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:48:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC53@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Thanks. That is what i thought but no joy. There is a space as the first character of each record if that makes any difference. Jim -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 13:50:12 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:50:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice References: Message-ID: <40B4E6E4.3010404@shaw.ca> file Splitter/Assembler http://www.vbcode.com/asp/showsn.asp?theID=4718 You could also use zlib open source but would need a C++ compiler to rebuild. The dll does come standard on Novell clients Welz wrote: > I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can > be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've > been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading > into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks > like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. > Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up > the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus > another two overall. > > Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files > in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an > attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff > files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will > not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no > getting it installed. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed May 26 13:56:51 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:56:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC54@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I figured it out. There were 2 spaces at the front of the record (sigh). like " American Express*" worked great. Thanks Jim H -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed May 26 14:07:32 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:07:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C13846D@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> have you tried: Like "*American Express*" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Thanks. That is what i thought but no joy. There is a space as the first character of each record if that makes any difference. Jim -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria Like "American Express*" "Hale, Jim" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Help with SQL Criteria 05/26/2004 11:19 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I have records with a description field. A number of records start with " American Express" followed by different codes. I can't remember how to structure the criteria to find the records which start with American express. Some combination with the like operator I presume. Any help would be appreciated. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed May 26 14:52:44 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:52:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice References: Message-ID: <40B4F58C.1070707@shaw.ca> At some places I know, the users and developers would be outside the Net Admin's door with pitchforks and torches. Even places like DND run completely seperate secure systems. Here is one way around Access Security macros via vbs but I suppose this has been disabled. However you should be able to run this from Access 97, calling an Access 2003 app with macro security set to off by changing this one line. Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application.11") Works on my machine with both versions installed. Const cDatabaseToOpen = "C:\.mdb" On Error Resume Next Dim AcApp as object Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application") If AcApp.Version >= 10 Then AcApp.AutomationSecurity = 1 ' msoAutomationSecurityLow End If AcApp.Visible = True AcApp.OpenCurrentDatabase cDatabaseToOpen If AcApp.CurrentProject.FullName <> "" Then AcApp.UserControl = True Else AcApp.Quit MsgBox "Failed to open '" & cDatabaseToOpen & "'." End If Welz wrote: > Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that > creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed > Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. > > Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a > shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or > install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files > nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through > Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote > machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all > and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I > bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop > allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. > If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I > currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few > forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble > the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with > large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site > that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running > in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some > straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. > > They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application > but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self > signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > >> From: "Charlotte Foust" >> >> Arthur, >> >> I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are >> so locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on >> machines when needed. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice >> >> >> Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction >> between code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as >> the author of WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known >> world-wide, at least among Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my >> point.) Frankly, from my point of view, I would sooner trust WinZip >> than my own efforts to do the same. After all, they're on Version 9 >> or so! >> >> Arthur >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice >> >> >> I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be >> >> emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been >> >> playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >> string >> or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm >> getting a >> few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm >> adding some >> delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears >> I'm >> adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. >> >> Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics >> files in >> that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >> attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff >> files >> that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not >> budge. >> Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >> installed. >> >> >> Ciao >> J?rgen Welz >> Edmonton, Alberta >> jwelz at hotmail.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:15:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:15:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF58@main2.marlow.com> You forgot the Lookup fields.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:29:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:29:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF59@main2.marlow.com> Francisco, first of all, I am honestly not sure how SQL server deals with character fields and their 'lengths'. In Access, setting a field to a 255 width does not make the storage space requirement any larger then if it is set to 50, unless someone types 51 or more characters. Does SQL Server take up the 'empty' space regardless? Again, I'm not sure. My analogy to a gas tank was not off, you just didn't make the connection I was trying to make. The size of the gas tank is the maximum length of a text field, or 255. That is what JET has designated as a test field max. The amount of gas you put in, is the limit YOU assign to the field. Does it make sense to not give them a full tank of gas? Putting a larger gas tank in, is like going to SQL Server. If it's necessary, then do it. If it's not, then don't. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:37:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:37:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5B@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Added that comment to see if people were actually reading it. You apparently did.....or your spam software picked it up! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Visit a strip club? I think we can safely close this thread with the observation that we have the "law enforcement" developers who want to protect their users from themselves, and the "assume their adults and let their boss worry about the children" developers. As it happens I absolutely believe in protecting the user from themselves, but not at the expense of preventing valid data entry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I think JC is agreeing with me on this, and I think you have a disconnect on what is a necessary limit, and what is an arbitrary limit. 255 characters is a necessary limit. It is set by the fact that a text field is defined to take up from 1 to 256 bytes. 1 byte is for the size actually stored, the rest leaves up to 255 characters of space. That is built into Jet. The only way around that limit is to either 'join' two or more text fields together (which I have done on RARE occasions), or use a Memo field. Memo fields can hold quite a bit more, however, there are drawbacks with Memo fields. However, the line between when to use one or the other is pretty clear. Is the field in question a data point, or is it a storage bin? In other words, is the field going to represent one particular fact? If it is a single fact, yet it may go over 200 characters, then either a second text field needs to be defined for carryover, or a memo field should be used. 20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit. An assumption is made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field. It is not a necessary limit. You may set a textbox to a particular size, but the textbox can be changed with little fuss. Let's say you put gas in your car once a week. Would you only put in the amount you expect to use for the week, or would you completely fill your tank? If you only put in what you expect to use, if something UNEXPECTED happens, you'll run out of gas, which is exactly what you do to your users if you set arbitrary limits. They'll be driving along, cruising down the data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour. Detour is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home. If they go on longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car). You want to provide your users with a full tank. Filling the trunk with extra gas cans, having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling. But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it? If you give the users a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club, or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not yours. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various < No, I remembered them, I just couldn't figure out how to describe the issue! ;-} Besides, I won that one! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You forgot the Lookup fields.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:52:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:52:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> And when your database design is used in another country, with different rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:54:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:54:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5E@main2.marlow.com> That would work. But still is evading the point. Setting text fields to 255 characters isn't giving them all the space in the world, it's just not putting 'extra' limits on something that is already limited to function as is. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi DWUTKA > Not too mention, if you want to argue that, then let's go all the way. Memo > fields are limited to 64k, or the db size limit, if edited through code. So > in 97 you're talking 1 gig, and 2k+ you are talking 2 gig. Might as well > move them to a SQL server, that is hacked into every computer system in the > world, to get as close to unlimited drive space. Or move the text to separate files - as we do for pictures! /gustav > But you are arbitrarily limiting them. In this case to 255. So I'm back to > saying you should set it to memo if you really feel this way. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 16:58:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:58:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5F@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! That last line (below) literally had me cackling out loud. Stop it, you're making my sides hurt! Drew Do I look impressed with what Access table designer suggests? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 17:00:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:00:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF60@main2.marlow.com> At least this has stayed pretty civil. I agree that is kind of 'debating' is the best way to learn things, or relearn things! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Yes, discussion is a good thing. This has dragged on and on over a relatively minor detail hasn't it? Passion is a wonderful thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed May 26 17:05:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL Thanks Drew, I needed that! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various And when your database design is used in another country, with different rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John > I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database > is it. In most cases, the client's. > Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I would tell or simply apply it. As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error and would make no sense to store. Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer suggests. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 17:37:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:37:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF61@main2.marlow.com> There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated incident. However, unlike issues like bound/unbound, pk's, and the more recent lookup fields, this is an issue which directly affects a users ability to enter data, into a DATAbase. This isn't theory, or ease of use, or handy tools, it's a control that actually limits the entire purpose of a database. Oh well, just another issue to debate I guess. LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. Yes, years ago, field length was an issue because of memory -- it no longer is. No one cares about that anymore unless they're working with a tremendously large amount of data -- and then, they're probably not using Access. On the other hand, JC, it is perfectly acceptable to use field size to limit values. You may not do it, but it is perfectly acceptable. I could take your logic another step and say why bother with data types? I can make the data anything I want using the right conversion function and code, so why bother? Access trainers still teach people that they CAN limit the field's size. It's there, you can use it or not use it. There's nothing wrong with doing so. You're both right -- and you should both use the tools you have the best you can. Period. Susan H. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 17:40:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:40:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF62@main2.marlow.com> Very well put. And I think the difference in our opinion on the matter lies in our different experiences. I've been burned many times over with a 'previous' developer setting limits on text fields, and have never had a problem with a field set to 255. (At least not due to that particular setting). Agree to disagree on experience? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't mean space/storage. You are not listening to me. What I'm saying is that there is no business rule telling you to set it to 255, you are picking it because that is a limit of access. That is all I'm saying. It makes no more sense to me to make it 255 characters (which really doesn't matter on storage) than to make it a sensible number based on some sort of logic (which you keep saying I don't do). How do you know how I make my decisions for field size? << That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. I never said I was having any issues. I said that setting the field to 255 arbitrarily may cause an issue down the road. What issue, maybe report problems, I have no idea. At least I know what issues I may have if I set an address field to some size based on some to be determined method. << TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. I've been designing Access DB's since version 1.0 but that alone doesn't make me right and neither do your 10 years of database design. I think that you are a wonderful developer (from what I've seen). This is supposed to be friendly discussion...not personal attacks. I'm not even saying that what you are doing is wrong. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 17:44:11 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:44:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040526224408.NTVL1775.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, I could present -- right after I threw up. ;) Why do you think I write? ;) Susan H. Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 17:46:24 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:46:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: LOL I *had* wondered! ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference OK, I could present -- right after I threw up. ;) Why do you think I write? ;) Susan H. Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 17:48:57 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:48:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF59@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF59@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B51ED9.7020606@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 2:29 PM: >Francisco, first of all, I am honestly not sure how SQL server deals with >character fields and their 'lengths'. In Access, setting a field to a 255 >width does not make the storage space requirement any larger then if it is >set to 50, unless someone types 51 or more characters. Does SQL Server take >up the 'empty' space regardless? Again, I'm not sure. > > > No, they do not take more space, however you must calculate the number of characters you "expect" per field per table in order to set an estimated growth for your database. This is one of things that usually gets skipped w/ many Access developers because generally db's might be no bigger than a few megs. However if it is expected that the db will grow, you'll want to take that consideration for your client so they can properly allocate 100/200/300gig hdd's as needed. >My analogy to a gas tank was not off, you just didn't make the connection I >was trying to make. The size of the gas tank is the maximum length of a >text field, or 255. That is what JET has designated as a test field max. >The amount of gas you put in, is the limit YOU assign to the field. Does it >make sense to not give them a full tank of gas? > maybe you chose the wrong analogy, didja ever think that? :> The reason that still doesn't make sense, is because I or whoever borrows the car can always re-fill the tank at any gas station. Perhaps if you said I took an explorer and fitted it w/ a Ford Festiva Tank, wich only filled up to about 8 gallons.... > Putting a larger gas tank >in, is like going to SQL Server. If it's necessary, then do it. If it's >not, then don't. > > > No that's like going from a 4 banger to a full 10 cylinder HEMMI. -- -Francisco From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 17:52:16 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:52:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B5AC40.7213.10E178@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 10:37, J?rgen Welz wrote: > Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates > files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I > have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. > > Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a > shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install > any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access > an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, > with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few > laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for > me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to > install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal > server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access > application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen > files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and > reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work > with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site > that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the > target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward > File I/O code that will do the trick. > > They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my > users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the > 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. > Try the Pricelessware.org recommended Chainsaw. It's a Windows app, so you don't need to get to a CLI, but doesn't require "installation". It's also small enough to email in to your work account. (Just extract it from the zip and change the extension before emailing it so that it gets past any filters that block executables.) http://www.schmeusser.siw.de/software/chainsaw.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From my.lists at verizon.net Wed May 26 17:55:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:55:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF61@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF61@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B5205C.3060304@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have >both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, >the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I >haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated >incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 18:00:26 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:00:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B5AE2A.28526.185BC7@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables for Properties > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table for photos? > > tblPhotos > PhotoID > PhotoPath > PhotoDate > PhotoComments > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think that would allow > the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of anything you track in > your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. The question is how to differentiate between property and Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is there a better one) 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for Accomodation unit photos 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the state of the flag., or 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only one of which would be used) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed May 26 18:05:59 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:05:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B5AF77.14704.1D707F@localhost> On 26 May 2004 at 8:16, J?rgen Welz wrote: > I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a string > or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a > few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some > delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm > adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > How are you outputting? If you use Print # or Write #, you will get a CRLF unless you end your statement with a semicolon. If you use Put # it shouldn't add anything. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 18:12:38 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:12:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: It is interesting to note that I've seen nothing from the list in my email in the past 5 hours yet Drew's archive shows at least several posts. I suspect mail is bouncing but can see no reason for this. I saw something about using the usb drives in the archive. The NT4 laptops don't recognize them as configured and the thin client terminals (WinCE) don't have USB ports. I would like to be able to log on to a thin client session from my home, slice whatever files I need to a manageable size and email them to my home account as separate attachments from whence I can reassemble the files, burn to CD or forward as required. An ideal solution would be something that does not require me to attend at the office when I need to do some work on any aspect of the application or the other things that I get called to attend to yet leave me the luxury of working at home. The office is 25 km over on the exact opposite side of the city and the one freeway that I can take is often worse than hitting traffic lights through town. I've been using File I/O for years for other purposes and am now able to recreate all manner of files including mdb/e and xls files by simply reading into a string variable and wrting out the string with a single write to a new file name. The problem comes with a few extra bytes added with the split and reassemble. Probably end of file marker or some such. Guess I'll have to take a hex editor to a small file and see what's happening. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed May 26 18:15:48 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:15:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. In-Reply-To: <40B4DE38.4050003@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Maryty, Sounds Interesting, any examples? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only works for Canadian and US versions You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 Robert Gracie wrote: >Rocky, > Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I will >end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! > >robert at servicexp.com > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >Beach Access Software >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Robert: > >I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. > >I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. > >Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. > >There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >code off line if you decide to do the two step. > >I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >but they don't. > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Gracie" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > > > >> Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >> >> >to > > >>even get the .dll set up and registered... >> >> Any idea's or help would be great! >> >>Thanks!! >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed May 26 18:18:01 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:18:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: <40B4E6E4.3010404@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Oops, Sorry about the typo Marty!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice file Splitter/Assembler http://www.vbcode.com/asp/showsn.asp?theID=4718 You could also use zlib open source but would need a C++ compiler to rebuild. The dll does come standard on Novell clients Welz wrote: > I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can > be emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've > been playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading > into a string or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks > like I'm getting a few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. > Presumably I'm adding some delimiter to the file segments that mess up > the file since it appears I'm adding two bytes for each chunk plus > another two overall. > > Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files > in that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an > attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff > files that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will > not budge. Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no > getting it installed. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 18:28:38 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:28:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF64@main2.marlow.com> Ugh. No, that is not where that argument goes. You are building them a tool in Access. Access suffices for their needs. Why limit them even further? If it makes you happy, set the field limit to 254, if you don't want to set it to Access' maximum. The point is, if you think that you'll probably never go over 50, so you set it at 55, to give yourself 5 extra characters, why not go the entire way, IN ACCESS, and just use 255. If you think it is going to be an issue with reporting, or whatever, if someone puts in more then 50 characters, include data validation that tells the user that an Address, or Name, or whatever field it is, of that length may not display properly in some reports. Please stop bringing up the move to SQL server, it's getting very redundant, and it isn't the point I am trying to make (nor JC). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various John W. Colby wrote On 5/25/2004 6:13 PM: >Says you. Limiting text fields without a valid business reason is just >silly (and arrogant as well). (says me) > >I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >is it. Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > > > But then that argument goes, why not build their database in something like mySQL or Sql Server (MSDE if you need to) in order to give them a maximum value of 8000 characters? hmm? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed May 26 18:30:29 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:30:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] =?iso-8859-1?q?Attn=3A_J=FCrgen?= Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE60E@TAPPEEXCH01> I tried sending my file splitter code to you, but it bounced from Hotmail, saying that your mailbox is full. Brett Barabash, MCP Tappe Construction, Co. Eagan, MN bbarabash at tappeconstruction.com (651) 256-6831 "One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse." -Jack Handey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 18:31:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:31:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF65@main2.marlow.com> Score Keeper.....what was the final score on that? LOL. That one got a little over heated though. But it didn't block users from entering data either way! LOL. Oh, I love this list. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various No, I remembered them, I just couldn't figure out how to describe the issue! ;-} Besides, I won that one! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various You forgot the Lookup fields.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Is it my imagination, or is this thread degenerating into another PK vs Unique Key/Natural vs Surrogate key/Bound vs Unbound endless argument with everyone insisting *they* won?? Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed May 26 18:47:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF66@main2.marlow.com> The users just go and get more gas, eh? So now you are letting your users go in and change the field size of a table? Why set the limit in the first place, if you have users that not only are allowed to change the field size, but also know how to do it? Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not theory, how many actual times. In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db that couldn't store what they wanted. Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do you think those clients think of their original developers? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 2:29 PM: >Francisco, first of all, I am honestly not sure how SQL server deals with >character fields and their 'lengths'. In Access, setting a field to a 255 >width does not make the storage space requirement any larger then if it is >set to 50, unless someone types 51 or more characters. Does SQL Server take >up the 'empty' space regardless? Again, I'm not sure. > > > No, they do not take more space, however you must calculate the number of characters you "expect" per field per table in order to set an estimated growth for your database. This is one of things that usually gets skipped w/ many Access developers because generally db's might be no bigger than a few megs. However if it is expected that the db will grow, you'll want to take that consideration for your client so they can properly allocate 100/200/300gig hdd's as needed. >My analogy to a gas tank was not off, you just didn't make the connection I >was trying to make. The size of the gas tank is the maximum length of a >text field, or 255. That is what JET has designated as a test field max. >The amount of gas you put in, is the limit YOU assign to the field. Does it >make sense to not give them a full tank of gas? > maybe you chose the wrong analogy, didja ever think that? :> The reason that still doesn't make sense, is because I or whoever borrows the car can always re-fill the tank at any gas station. Perhaps if you said I took an explorer and fitted it w/ a Ford Festiva Tank, wich only filled up to about 8 gallons.... > Putting a larger gas tank >in, is like going to SQL Server. If it's necessary, then do it. If it's >not, then don't. > > > No that's like going from a 4 banger to a full 10 cylinder HEMMI. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:11:13 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:11:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <20040526224408.NTVL1775.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000b01c4437f$2239d6e0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Joe's Rules You toss cookies You clean cookies JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference OK, I could present -- right after I threw up. ;) Why do you think I write? ;) Susan H. Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:13:09 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:13:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <20040526114249.KPMI1705.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000c01c4437f$67ab8ca0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Not all attendees need to present. I am not able to go all day. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:15:15 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:15:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c4437f$b2594940$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Anyone who can help me review tech requirements of recording it. I do not have any proper digital toys for this. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Sound like an idea worthy of pursuing...there are of course some hurdles...attempted this route at last conference but ran out of time. A quick start could make it a reality.(?) What is needed? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Kahelin Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference With a web cam you could even make part of the conference a WEBINAR!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > > They are. I can only help the relatively locals. > > JOE HECHT > LOS ANGELES CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:56 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > I'd be willing to attend an L.A. conference. But I thought > most of our membership was from far, far outside the SoCal area? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: jmhla at earthlink.net > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, > >California > > > > > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > > > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the > >405 > >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > > > >3. Who would be attending? > > > >4. Who would like to present? > > > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > > > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > > > > > > > >JOE HECHT > > > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed May 26 19:29:42 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:29:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCAD@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <001401c44381$b71e8790$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Roz, I have subscribed to the dba-conf list.there. All those with interest in the LA meeting please move the conversations over JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Guys Although not a great many people are currently subbed to dba-conf, can those of you who are interested in the LA event please subscribe to it now and move this discussion over there? Feel free to post occasional updates to AccessD, but the main discussion of the conference should take place on the dba-conf list which was, after all, set up for precisely that purpose. :) thanks Roz -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] Sent: 25 May 2004 18:27 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Can a moderator tell us what percentage of members are on the conference list? Let all who have interest know I said August or later you have desire but vacation plans for August. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference I'd be able to attend the 7th, 14th or the 21st. Not the 28th. -- -Francisco Charlotte Foust wrote On 5/25/2004 8:28 AM: >I'd attend, Joe. The 21st is the only weekend I have a conflict, but I >could resolve that if necessary. And at what point do we take this to >the conf list? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhla at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:26 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 26 19:30:53 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:30:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <01b601c44334$069fc1b0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: That is what I like a person who exudes confidence. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various If I may... What makes either of you think that the other isn't correct in his own right? This is an issue that simply doesn't have a right or wrong. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 26 19:30:56 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:30:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals that will argue every point I try and make". Just a suggestion Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed May 26 19:32:40 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:32:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: LOL. Perfect!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals that will argue every point I try and make". Just a suggestion Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all your articles, surely you could find a topic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. Susan H. Susan, I agree. Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 26 19:41:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:41:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi J?rgen: I have a piece of code around somewhere, in VB, that compresses and uncompresses a file or more. If you are interested I could try digging it up. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Charlotte is correct. The IT people see Access as a program that creates files just like Notepad creates files. Since they installed Access 97, I have permission to use it to create mdb/mde files. Winzip or its ilk are not permitted. It is not possible to create a shortcut on the desktop, shell to DOS, create ODBC connections or install any software. It is also not possible to email certain files nor to access an email account from outside the offices except through Terminal Services, with no ability to save data to a disk at a remote machine. Only a few laptop users have access to a floppy drive at all and it is not possible for me to log on to the LAN with any laptop I bring on site. Any attempt to install any software on a laptop allowed on the system or on the terminal server is blocked and fails. If I want to email myself an Access application I'm working on, I currently have to break it into several dozen files with a few forms/reports/modules in each, rename them as doc files and reassemble the objects into a container offsite. This tactic does not work with large graphic files though. I've seen an mda at Dev's mvps.org site that purports to do this but I'm not sure I can get it up and running in the target environment. For this reason I'm looking for some straight forward File I/O code that will do the trick. They are starting to move to A2K3 and I've converted the application but my users cannot run it yet and they have not addressed self signing the 'macros' in Access. When they do, the jig may be up. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >Arthur, > >I think the key issue was "getting it installed". Some systems are so >locked down that it isn't possible to get winzip installed on machines when >needed. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:27 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >Just out of curiosity, what is the security-paranoid distinction between >code you write and code that somebody known worldwide such as the author of >WinZip wrote? (I realize that you too are known world-wide, at least among >Access cognoscenti, but that wasn't my point.) Frankly, from my point of >view, I would sooner trust WinZip than my own efforts to do the same. After >all, they're on Version 9 or so! > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:17 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice > > >I'm looking for some VBA to cut a file into chunks of a size that can be > >emailed and then reassemble the full size at the destination. I've been > >playing with File I/O for a few hours, opening binary, reading into a >string >or byte array and then Output to new files but it looks like I'm getting a >few additional bytes in the reconstituted file. Presumably I'm adding some >delimiter to the file segments that mess up the file since it appears I'm >adding two bytes for each chunk plus another two overall. > >Does anyone have a solution? This is for sending large graphics files in >that security paranoid place I was formerly employed. They have an >attachment size limit of 5 megs and a bunch of 18 - 24 megabyte tiff files >that need to be sent out and, as usual, the IT department will not budge. >Winzip and it's disk spanning would be ok but there's no getting it >installed. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed May 26 20:15:36 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:15:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <028201c44388$1e0d7c30$6601a8c0@rock> LOL Thanks Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various That is what I like a person who exudes confidence. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I'm sorry, Susan, but I am correct in all things and on all subjects. The rest of you are mere wannabes. The fact that this is not clear already merely reinforces my point. :-) From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed May 26 20:24:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:24:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <000b01c4437f$2239d6e0$6401a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <20040527012419.UKWK1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> That's why I'd stay home. :) Susan H. Joe's Rules You toss cookies You clean cookies From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed May 26 21:38:21 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:38:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: I have had no list mail since Charlotte's mail on this topic explaining to Arthur question about why my code should be trusted. It's been 8 hours since I've received any list mail. Using Drew's archive I found Marty's link: http://www.vbcode.com/asp/showsn.asp?theID=4718 which was easily adapted to my purposes. That code assumed but did not show a few command buttons and a textbox and a combo box and used conventional VB syntax (referring to the text property of a textbox and checking for "" rather than null, and using additem and a named listindex for the combo). I made minor changes adding my own API browse for files to adapt it to typical Access 97 code and it works perfectly on files that I tried it with. The code is very nice, stores away the file extension in a file header together with the number of file pieces and automatically names the file with a numeric incrementing extension. Reassembly merely requires one to pass the path and name of the first file piece. It's a bit slower than I expected but it appears to work well and I'll spend a bit of time this weekend mulling over what I was doing wrong. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From karenr7 at oz.net Wed May 26 23:15:55 2004 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:15:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: <40B5AE2A.28526.185BC7@localhost> Message-ID: <200405270415.i4R4FmQ20566@databaseadvisors.com> Stuart, I bought some of the stuff from these guys about three years ago. http://datasphere.net/OfficeComponents.aspx Pretty good stuff. Their sample database was an accommodation register. Well done. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA karenr7 at oz dot net (Spam blocker -- resolve into a real email address) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables for Properties > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table for photos? > > tblPhotos > PhotoID > PhotoPath > PhotoDate > PhotoComments > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think that would allow > the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of anything you track in > your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. The question is how to differentiate between property and Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is there a better one) 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for Accomodation unit photos 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the state of the flag., or 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only one of which would be used) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu May 27 00:37:38 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040527053738.20910.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Correct! My mistake, forgot to mention that. Sander Charlotte Foust wrote: I believe you have to have CDO installed to make that work, do you not? Since CDO isn't installed automatically, even with Outlook, that could be problematic. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Attaching a file to an email Don't know if this was solved or not but this does the trick. Here's part of my VB code wich attaches a file to an e-mail. It makes use of the MAPISESSION component : frmMain.MAPISession1.UserName = ProfileName frmMain.MAPISession1.NewSession = True frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOn With frmMain.MAPIMessages1 .SessionID = frmMain.MAPISession1.SessionID .Compose .MsgIndex = -1 .RecipAddress = Recip .ResolveName .MsgSubject = strMail_Titel .MsgNoteText = NoteText If Bestand <> "" Then .AttachmentIndex = .AttachmentCount .AttachmentPathName = Bestand .AttachmentType = mapData .AttachmentPosition = Len(.MsgNoteText) - 1 .AttachmentName = Bestand End If .Send End With frmMain.MAPISession1.SignOff frmMain.MAPIMessages1.SessionID = -1 SendMailOrder = True LogStatus "Mail verstuurd (" & strMail_Titel & ")" Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote:Dear List: I would like to export a couple of text files from an app and hook them to an email, though code. I'm using DoCmd.SendObject because it looks like it's independent of the mail client onthe user's machine. But is there a way to attach a file to the email which is generated by DoCmd.SendObject? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu May 27 00:48:45 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Message-ID: <20040527054845.8236.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 27 01:14:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:14:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Normalization and De-normalization In-Reply-To: <000601c44203$4d208b10$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: ...And as a continuation to our conversation about the balancing act between normalization and de-normalization here are some good books that I am sure you will find interesting. I have only read a little bit of one (Handbook of Relational Design) but the list came highly recommended by a friend who, has worked as a systems engineer for the last twenty-five years. (We started out together in the same office many years ago.) Handbook of Relational Design - Candace C. Fleming and Barbara von Halle -Addison Wesley ISBN 0-201-11434-8 Fundamentals of Database Systems - Elmasri/Navathe - Benjamin Cummings ISBN 0-8053-0145-3 Database Design for Smarties (Using UML for Data Modeling) - Robert J. Muller - Morgan Kaufman ISBN 1-55860-515-0 I have also spoken to another friend who has been working with databases that do not use the standard relational data models. When I have received more information I will pass it along as well. Hope you find this information on the Art of database designing challenging. Jim From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 27 01:47:26 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:47:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: <40B5AE2A.28526.185BC7@localhost> Message-ID: <000201c443b6$7904c0c0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I may be wrong Sturat but I think what Mark is suggesting is that you don't make any differentiation on the Photo table between property and Accomodation Unit photos, you put an FK on the property and Accomodation Unit tables pointing to the Photo Id. Or, assuming you need >1 photo for any unit, have a relationship table. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 27 May 2004 00:00 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... > > > On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > > > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables > for Properties > > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table > for photos? > > > > tblPhotos > > PhotoID > > PhotoPath > > PhotoDate > > PhotoComments > > > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think > that would > > allow the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of > anything you > > track in your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > > > > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. > > The question is how to differentiate between property and > Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is > there a better one) > > 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for > Accomodation unit photos > > 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that > would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the > state of the flag., or > > 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only > one of which would be used) > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 27 01:45:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:45:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <40B58EA6.8010705@shaw.ca> There are two VB examples in the appendix of this part of the technical overview pdf using xml and api call method. They are building the xml dom from scratch so xpath would only be of use is applied to a prebuilt template of the xml file in the dom Kind of hard to explain but you would use xpath to fill the template rather than filling each child element in the dom I would only use xpath once I determined the original method was working. https://developer.intuit.com/qbSDK-current/doc/pdf/1TechnicalOverview.pdf Robert Gracie wrote: >Maryty, > Sounds Interesting, any examples? > > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:13 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only >works for Canadian and US versions >You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, >although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements >instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. >https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 > >Robert Gracie wrote: > > > >>Rocky, >> Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I >> >> >will > > >>end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! >> >>robert at servicexp.com >> >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >>Beach Access Software >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >>Robert: >> >>I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. >> >>I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >>that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. >> >>Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >>process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. >> >>There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >>code off line if you decide to do the two step. >> >>I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >>but they don't. >> >>Rocky Smolin >>Beach Access Software >>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert Gracie" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >>Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >>> >>> >>> >>> >>to >> >> >> >> >>>even get the .dll set up and registered... >>> >>>Any idea's or help would be great! >>> >>>Thanks!! >>>Robert Gracie >>>www.servicexp.com >>> >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 27 01:53:42 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:53:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference References: Message-ID: <40B59076.3000702@shaw.ca> Wear a battered fedora and use a 15' bullwhip to make your power points. Especially if doing computer archeology. Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: >Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals that >will argue every point I try and make". > >Just a suggestion >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The >presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... >Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... > >A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all >your articles, surely you could find a topic. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were going >to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, this rule >would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. > >You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your conference, >and you do what you like -- I guess. > >Susan H. > >Susan, I agree. > >Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large >audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two >sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could >present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small topics >of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu May 27 03:05:41 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:05:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB1@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION TO DBA-CONF --if not to OT-- This thread is way off topic for accessd, and still running some hours after I asked you nicely to move over. C'mon folks it's not like you have nowhere to go. Roz -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: 27 May 2004 07:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Wear a battered fedora and use a 15' bullwhip to make your power points. Especially if doing computer archeology. Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: >Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals >that will argue every point I try and make". > >Just a suggestion >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The >presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... >Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... > >A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all >your articles, surely you could find a topic. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were >going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, >this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. > >You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your >conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. > >Susan H. > >Susan, I agree. > >Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large >audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two >sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could >present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small >topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu May 27 03:16:42 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:16:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB2@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Sander As always, I guess I'm going to answer your question with a question; Is there any conceivable reason to normalise the data? Is this database ever going to be used for data entry? It sounds like it's more of a data processing facility than a database as such. I'm no normalisation guru, but I have to say I'm favouring your approach from what you've said. Roz -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: 27 May 2004 06:49 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu May 27 04:31:25 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:31:25 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Martin, Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 then change the query to SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > in an array > There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > passing them > Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > ' Create recordset and set the page size > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then > Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > iRecordsShown = 0 > Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! > objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 03:48:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:48:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE9F5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <1065827599.20040527104809@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search > results. > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). Thanks, but no luck. The first link is about the single-click setting in Explorer while the second is about the registry. However, everything in the registry is set according to the article, so there is nothing more to do, except perhaps a reinstall which I doubt will cure it as the installer runs every time Word 97 has been active. I should repeat that this is for Word only, no problems with Access or Excel. /gustav > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch > I read about it but I'm not sure. > I would love to see a fix too! > /gustav >> Thanks Gustav. >> You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP >> updates/patches might help. >> I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). >> Jim DeMarco >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click >> Hi Jim >> I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. >> Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the >> installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. >> I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 >> demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and >> carries out quietly when launched). >> Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? >> /gustav >>> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >>> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >>> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 04:37:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:37:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF5D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <218799843.20040527113741@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > And when your database design is used in another country, with different > rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? > LOL That could be me. That's why I included the word "domestic". For other cases I would do differently. /gustav >> I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >> is it. > In most cases, the client's. >> Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. > If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I > would tell or simply apply it. > As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC > (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, > max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error > and would make no sense to store. > Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is > longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic > address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer > suggests. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 04:40:44 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:40:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1018982626.20040527114044@cactus.dk> Hi John and Drew A nice couple, you two. Now, who would have believed that? /gustav >>hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL > Thanks Drew, I needed that! > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 27 04:55:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:55:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF66@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF66@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <1019869030.20040527115530@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone > set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not > theory, how many actual times. I don't recall ever to have had to adjust this limit. That's because I'm so good to anticipate the client's need. > In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous > developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users > were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had > done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of > those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db > that couldn't store what they wanted. Well, those previous developers were bad developers. > Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had > a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character > field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and > say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 > characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what > do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do > you think those clients think of their original developers? It all sums up, that to limit a text field length you must be a good programmer; if you are not, just don't. (No reverse conclusions should be made.) /gustav From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu May 27 07:36:56 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:36:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEA03@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Oh well it was worth a look. I've got to head over to my client and see what I can do but I'm almost certain this won't help me either. I wouldn't mind if it just happened when they launched the app but it happens evertime they choose an item from a listbox (which controls the main function of the application). :-( Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click Hi Jim > I just found something at kbalertz.com but it involves reinstalling Access 2000 (which really isn't installed on this machine at all, just the runtime). Here are the two most relevant search > results. > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_221455.aspx > http://www.kbalertz.com/Feedback_265194.aspx > Maybe they'll help you. I may try the registry fixes from the second link and see what happens (although I'm not sure how to reinstall Access 2000 since it's not present). Thanks, but no luck. The first link is about the single-click setting in Explorer while the second is about the registry. However, everything in the registry is set according to the article, so there is nothing more to do, except perhaps a reinstall which I doubt will cure it as the installer runs every time Word 97 has been active. I should repeat that this is for Word only, no problems with Access or Excel. /gustav > Sorry, no I don't have a fix. It may have been in Woodys Office Watch > I read about it but I'm not sure. > I would love to see a fix too! > /gustav >> Thanks Gustav. >> You are correct. I forgot to mention that they use Office 97. So we've got the A2K runtime and O97 potentially causing this problem. Have you seen a fix anywhere? I'm wondering if any XP >> updates/patches might help. >> I've seen the installer launch when you double-click an icon to open a program but never when an app is already running (and by selecting an item in a list at that!). >> Jim DeMarco >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:04 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Windows installer runs on list item click >> Hi Jim >> I've seen this for Word when both Word 2000 and Word 97 are installed. >> Whenever Word 97 has run, next time you launch Word 2000 it fires the >> installer - and will continue to do so until you allow it to finish. >> I think I read somewhere it has do with the file extensions; Word 2000 >> demands to have doc files associated which Word 97 wishes too (and >> carries out quietly when launched). >> Perhaps your affected clients are running older versions of Access? >> /gustav >>> We've got an A2K runtime app that works fine but when run on one client's Windows XP machine the Windows installer runs whenever they choose a name from list box (to display detail records). It >>> takes a few clicks to kill the installer and this list box happens to be where they do most of their work. Any thoughts on why this is happening and how to stop it? >>> This is the only XP machine we've installed on so far. I'm wondering if it's a WinXP issue? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu May 27 08:22:25 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:22:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... Message-ID: Andy's interpretation of my comments is correct. Here is an example: tblPhotos tblProperties pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID PhotoPath pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Or tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. etc. PhotoComments etc. etc. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... I may be wrong Sturat but I think what Mark is suggesting is that you don't make any differentiation on the Photo table between property and Accomodation Unit photos, you put an FK on the property and Accomodation Unit tables pointing to the Photo Id. Or, assuming you need >1 photo for any unit, have a relationship table. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 27 May 2004 00:00 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... > > > On 26 May 2004 at 10:47, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > > > If I understand correctly, you already have separate tables > for Properties > > and AccomodationUnits. Why not just have a separate table > for photos? > > > > tblPhotos > > PhotoID > > PhotoPath > > PhotoDate > > PhotoComments > > > > PhotoID would be the FK in each of those tables. I think > that would > > allow the greatest flexibility. You could have photos of > anything you > > track in your db...staff, repairs, scanned documents, etc. > > > > I do have a separate table or tables for photos. > > The question is how to differentiate between property and > Accomodation Unit photos. Which of these is the best option (or is > there a better one) > > 1. Two separate tables like your's one for Property photos, one for > Accomodation unit photos > > 2. a single table with a Property/AccomUnit flag and a single FK that > would link to either tblProperties, or tblAccomUnits depending on the > state of the flag., or > > 3. a single table with both a Property FK and an AccomUnit FK (only > one of which would be used) > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu May 27 09:53:09 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:53:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB2@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: Sander, If this is the case then there really is no reason. If, however, the data is being used for something else or being editing or added to, then there is a good reason. In either case the "argument" might be a waste of time and effort since you can flatten it back out very quickly using a select query. Replace the previously used table name with the saved query name and you back to where you were. Normalization is an ideology - so with some people its like arguing politics or religion! (doesn't pay if you don't have to) Best of luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi Sander As always, I guess I'm going to answer your question with a question; Is there any conceivable reason to normalise the data? Is this database ever going to be used for data entry? It sounds like it's more of a data processing facility than a database as such. I'm no normalisation guru, but I have to say I'm favouring your approach from what you've said. Roz -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: 27 May 2004 06:49 To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 27 10:18:41 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:18:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Message-ID: I'm going to buck the trend, Sander. If you are relating tables ("link to other tables for master-detail lines") then normalize because if you have linked tables, your data isn't really flat and partial normalization can get you in big trouble. However, from your description, the tables already sound lilke they're fairly normalized, so perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. The only way to further normalize the data with be with links to an articles table unless the prices are standardized, so what bits and pieces would you have? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 9:49 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Database design? PLEASE ADVISE Hi group, I've worked on several projects where interfaces (text messages) where imported (from customers/third parties) and exported (to custumers/third parties). I've always seen/developed the database using tables with the exact layout of the interface. So if an interface has 4 fields (orderid, article, price, date) like this: orderid article price date 22654hammer20.5020040526 I would create a table with these 4 fields, add some extra columns (imported date, last updated, + some columns to link to other tables for master-detail lines etc.) Now I'm in the proces of developing a completely new system and these guys want to normalize all data. So the complete message is going to be scrambled into bits and pieces. Somehow I cannot find any good arguments to convince them that this is NOT a good approach. The only thing I seem to have accomplished is that the understand the risk of these interfaces changing (wich WILL happen) over time. Questions: Is my approach correct/the better one? Why? Any ideas? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 11:11:00 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:11:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF64@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF64@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B61314.1050705@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 4:28 PM: >Ugh. No, that is not where that argument goes. You are building them a >tool in Access. Access suffices for their needs. Why limit them even >further? If it makes you happy, set the field limit to 254, if you don't >want to set it to Access' maximum. The point is, if you think that you'll >probably never go over 50, so you set it at 55, to give yourself 5 extra >characters, why not go the entire way, IN ACCESS, and just use 255. If you >think it is going to be an issue with reporting, or whatever, if someone >puts in more then 50 characters, include data validation that tells the user >that an Address, or Name, or whatever field it is, of that length may not >display properly in some reports. > > > What good is data if they can't use it? If your reports don't display it and they (tho not all clients) aren't smart enough to know to scroll or CTRL-A to get the entire field, what does it matter how "big" you make the field. One of the arguments for the max LENGTH was that it would avoid an unnecessary visit to the client side, however you're still going to have visit them to fix a report or a screen. So what's the difference, that they can store it?, what does it matter, to them they will still say it's "CUT OFF" and YES, I have had this occur, maybe not in the last 3 months but I haven't done any contract work in over a year. >Please stop bringing up the move to SQL server, it's getting very redundant, >and it isn't the point I am trying to make (nor JC). > > I don't think it to be redundant, just that it derails the "POINT" you're trying to make. Not everyone lives in a bubble and some of us do develop in other engines other than Access, such as MS Sql or mySQL.. and by your logic, I should just use the maximum field length because it's THERE. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:25:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have >both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, >the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I >haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated >incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:26:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:26:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF72@main2.marlow.com> Did I forget to mention that my archives are psychic? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] File Slice/Splice It is interesting to note that I've seen nothing from the list in my email in the past 5 hours yet Drew's archive shows at least several posts. I suspect mail is bouncing but can see no reason for this. I saw something about using the usb drives in the archive. The NT4 laptops don't recognize them as configured and the thin client terminals (WinCE) don't have USB ports. I would like to be able to log on to a thin client session from my home, slice whatever files I need to a manageable size and email them to my home account as separate attachments from whence I can reassemble the files, burn to CD or forward as required. An ideal solution would be something that does not require me to attend at the office when I need to do some work on any aspect of the application or the other things that I get called to attend to yet leave me the luxury of working at home. The office is 25 km over on the exact opposite side of the city and the one freeway that I can take is often worse than hitting traffic lights through town. I've been using File I/O for years for other purposes and am now able to recreate all manner of files including mdb/e and xls files by simply reading into a string variable and wrting out the string with a single write to a new file name. The problem comes with a few extra bytes added with the split and reassemble. Probably end of file marker or some such. Guess I'll have to take a hex editor to a small file and see what's happening. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 27 11:29:26 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:29:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: I really don't think that we disagree. I don't even think what you are doing is wrong. It's more of a practice that I don't follow and you do. The whole reason I got involved in this topic was to see if maybe I should change my practice. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Very well put. And I think the difference in our opinion on the matter lies in our different experiences. I've been burned many times over with a 'previous' developer setting limits on text fields, and have never had a problem with a field set to 255. (At least not due to that particular setting). Agree to disagree on experience? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't mean space/storage. You are not listening to me. What I'm saying is that there is no business rule telling you to set it to 255, you are picking it because that is a limit of access. That is all I'm saying. It makes no more sense to me to make it 255 characters (which really doesn't matter on storage) than to make it a sensible number based on some sort of logic (which you keep saying I don't do). How do you know how I make my decisions for field size? << That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. I never said I was having any issues. I said that setting the field to 255 arbitrarily may cause an issue down the road. What issue, maybe report problems, I have no idea. At least I know what issues I may have if I set an address field to some size based on some to be determined method. << TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. I've been designing Access DB's since version 1.0 but that alone doesn't make me right and neither do your 10 years of database design. I think that you are a wonderful developer (from what I've seen). This is supposed to be friendly discussion...not personal attacks. I'm not even saying that what you are doing is wrong. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Scott, There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access database for crying out loud. The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes. Do you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free? ANY? Your MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives. Assuming that this is going into a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR 40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with nothing but the ACCESS db. I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now. I have always just set the size to 255. I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255 characters. I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA. I do not see problems with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address fields. If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it once or twice in 10 years, don't you think? Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc? Allowing users to write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and check boxes to enter correct data. That would explain how you could have issues that I am not seeing. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. My users aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte. They aren't filling ANY fields to the last byte. They are entering what you would expect to enter, names, addresses etc. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because you have no valid issue. TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Harp all you want, it is just harping. By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES. Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:31:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:31:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF73@main2.marlow.com> I know, just when you think you have the world figured out, JC and Drew agree about something, and Gustav tosses all internationalization issues out the window. Go figure. Welcome to AccessD: All Controversial Conversations Exceed Standard Size, DOH! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John and Drew A nice couple, you two. Now, who would have believed that? /gustav >>hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL > Thanks Drew, I needed that! > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:32:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:32:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF74@main2.marlow.com> So you only limit the data entry capabilities of people in your own country? How very nice. Okay, that was a dig, but it was just WAY WAY WAY to tempting for me. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi Drew > And when your database design is used in another country, with different > rules.......hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? > LOL That could be me. That's why I included the word "domestic". For other cases I would do differently. /gustav >> I keep asking (and nobody is responding) - whose data is it? Whose database >> is it. > In most cases, the client's. >> Who are YOU to TELL the client that 53 characters is all they need? > I'm the expert. Quite often the client doesn't know what he/she needs. > If there would be a good reason to limit a text field to 53 chars, I > would tell or simply apply it. > As some examples, ISO country codes are either two or three chars, BIC > (SWIFT) codes are 8 or 11 chars, and IBAN codes are, by definition, > max. 34 chars - anything above these numbers would represent an error > and would make no sense to store. > Here, no city name is longer than 20 chars and no street name is > longer than 34 chars. Thus 50 is a reasonable limit for domestic > address lines which, by the way, is also what Access's table designer > suggests. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 11:37:00 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:37:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF75@main2.marlow.com> Now Gustav, that is a VERY valid point. And one that is constantly glossed over whenever we debate 'bad practice' issues. Something is really only bad practice when done by someone that doesn't realize what they are doing. Just like tossing matches into a bucket of gasoline is bad practice, if the person is a fire marshal, and they are doing it for a very specific reason, then it should be done. Same with almost every other topic that has come up with 'bad practice' implications. You are a good developer, so I honestly don't think I would every have to worry about field size limits in a database built by you. However, in the beginning of this thread, I was mentioning that a college course was having their students set field size limits on all of their fields. (10 characters for a first name, etc.) So my point was that the 'established' education system out there is teaching bad habits (along with spaces in the table names, etc). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi Drew > Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone > set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not > theory, how many actual times. I don't recall ever to have had to adjust this limit. That's because I'm so good to anticipate the client's need. > In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous > developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users > were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had > done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of > those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db > that couldn't store what they wanted. Well, those previous developers were bad developers. > Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had > a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character > field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and > say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 > characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what > do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do > you think those clients think of their original developers? It all sums up, that to limit a text field length you must be a good programmer; if you are not, just don't. (No reverse conclusions should be made.) /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu May 27 11:41:25 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:41:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC59@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 11:44:45 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:44:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B61AFD.9090107@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 9:25 AM: >Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and >a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. >The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 >characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident >occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company >running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not >really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the >project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL >Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could >'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update >query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make >a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into >the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data >involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took >about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would >have taken just about as long for just that one). > >So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for >fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. > >However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket >for the original developer, NOT the client. > WOW way to burn time... you obviously didn't have the right tools for the job, because if you can ADD and you can DELETE a field, then you can ALTER... and it takes no more than a few minutes, that's w/ the time it takes to find the field and either write up the command or use a gui interface to do it all... 2 fields, that's nothing, you were just using a hammer.... >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to >where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > > No it's not, and you ripped off your client. Sorry, but unless that's what you charged for just showing up, that's a rip. -- -Francisco From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 27 11:47:01 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:47:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE613@TAPPEEXCH01> So let me get this straight... You just got paid $150 to do what could have been accomplished with the following SQL statement: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN MyField varchar(255) So, can you pass along my name to them? Heck, I'd be willing to do that for a mere $75! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:25 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I have >both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. However, >the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But I >haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an isolated >incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu May 27 12:04:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:04:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu May 27 13:35:38 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:35:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF71@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000201c44419$6c069b60$6401a8c0@COA3> Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 or maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to Access' table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the table design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big deal, there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would irk me more than this. BUT ... Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved into a waste of bits and bandwidth. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past >few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was >Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But >I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >isolated incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu May 27 13:45:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:45:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <40B63745.4020509@shaw.ca> I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Private Sub Command0_Click() cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ "Data Source=(local);" & _ "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ "User ID=sa;" & _ "Password=;" cnn.Open rst.Source = "Select * from authors" rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient rst.Open , cnn Set Me.Recordset = rst End Sub paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Martin, >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 > >then change the query to >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. >Paul Hartland >PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>From : "Martin Reid" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >> >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>' Move to the selected page number >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >> >> >http://www.asp101.com > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing >>in an array >>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for >>performance >> >> >>Sub AdoPaging() >>'stolen from >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>Dim CONN_USER As String >>Dim CONN_PASS As String >> >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ >>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" >> >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>' Comment out to use Access >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ >>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ >>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" >>'CONN_USER = "samples" >>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>' END USER CONSTANTS >> >>' Declare our vars >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>passing them >>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>iPageSize records >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >> >>' Get parameters >>' set number of records per page >> >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >> >>' Set page to show or default to 1 >> >>iPageCurrent = 2 >> >> >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. >>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. >>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >> >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >> >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. >>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >> >> >>Debug.Print strSQL >> >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>' Create and open our connection >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection >>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS >>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>' Create recordset and set the page size >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >> >>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize >> >>' Open RS >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, >>adCmdText >> >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >> >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount >>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >> >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! >>If iPageCount = 0 Then >>Debug.Print "No records found!" >>Else >>' Move to the selected page >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>' Start output with a page x of n line >> >>' Show field names in the top row >>Dim strtitles As String >>strtitles = "" >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >> >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record >>iRecordsShown = 0 >>Dim strFields As String >>strFields = "" >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >> >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >> >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >> >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>'clear strfields shown >>strFields = "" >> >>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! >>objPagingRS.MoveNext >>Loop >> >>' All done - close table >> >>End If >> >>' Close DB objects and free variables >>objPagingRS.Close >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>objPagingConn.Close >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >> >>End Sub >> >> >>Martin Reid wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want >>> >>> >to > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from >>> >>> >SQL > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move >>>freely between pages. >>> >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. >>> >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? >>> >>>MArtin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu May 27 13:50:02 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:50:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: You can do this with XP but not prior versions. MartyConnelly To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets 05/27/2004 01:45 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Private Sub Command0_Click() cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ "Data Source=(local);" & _ "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ "User ID=sa;" & _ "Password=;" cnn.Open rst.Source = "Select * from authors" rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient rst.Open , cnn Set Me.Recordset = rst End Sub paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Martin, >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField <=100 > >then change the query to >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. >Paul Hartland >PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>From : "Martin Reid" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >> >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>' Move to the selected page number >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >> >> >http://www.asp101.com > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing >>in an array >>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for >>performance >> >> >>Sub AdoPaging() >>'stolen from >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>Dim CONN_USER As String >>Dim CONN_PASS As String >> >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ >>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" >> >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>' Comment out to use Access >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ >>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ >>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" >>'CONN_USER = "samples" >>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>' END USER CONSTANTS >> >>' Declare our vars >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>passing them >>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>iPageSize records >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >> >>' Get parameters >>' set number of records per page >> >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >> >>' Set page to show or default to 1 >> >>iPageCurrent = 2 >> >> >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. >>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. >>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >> >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >> >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. >>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >> >> >>Debug.Print strSQL >> >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>' Create and open our connection >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection >>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS >>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>' Create recordset and set the page size >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >> >>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize >> >>' Open RS >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, >>adCmdText >> >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >> >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount >>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >> >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! >>If iPageCount = 0 Then >>Debug.Print "No records found!" >>Else >>' Move to the selected page >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >> >>' Start output with a page x of n line >> >>' Show field names in the top row >>Dim strtitles As String >>strtitles = "" >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >> >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record >>iRecordsShown = 0 >>Dim strFields As String >>strFields = "" >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >> >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >> >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >> >>Next 'I >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>'clear strfields shown >>strFields = "" >> >>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! >>objPagingRS.MoveNext >>Loop >> >>' All done - close table >> >>End If >> >>' Close DB objects and free variables >>objPagingRS.Close >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>objPagingConn.Close >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >> >>End Sub >> >> >>Martin Reid wrote: >> >> >> >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want >>> >>> >to > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from >>> >>> >SQL > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move >>>freely between pages. >>> >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. >>> >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? >>> >>>MArtin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu May 27 13:56:12 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:56:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> <40B63745.4020509@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001901c4441c$4878b5e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of records they get. Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the wire. The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again ordered by "B" and so on and so on. No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First Last but we would also have Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or 2000 down would be ok. Any of this make sense?? OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it > XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. > There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I > must be looking at something the wrong way. > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Private Sub Command0_Click() > cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ > "Data Source=(local);" & _ > "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ > "User ID=sa;" & _ > "Password=;" > cnn.Open > rst.Source = "Select * from authors" > rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient > rst.Open , cnn > Set Me.Recordset = rst > End Sub > > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > >Martin, > >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 > > > >then change the query to > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > > > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. > >Paul Hartland > >PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM > >>From : "Martin Reid" > >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Copy to : > >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. > > > >Martin > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > >> > >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > >>' Move to the selected page number > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from > >> > >> > >http://www.asp101.com > > > > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > >>in an array > >>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > >>performance > >> > >> > >>Sub AdoPaging() > >>'stolen from > >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > >>Dim CONN_STRING As String > >>Dim CONN_USER As String > >>Dim CONN_PASS As String > >> > >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > >>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > >> > >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > >>' Comment out to use Access > >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > >>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > >>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > >>'CONN_USER = "samples" > >>'CONN_PASS = "password" > >>' END USER CONSTANTS > >> > >>' Declare our vars > >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > >>passing them > >>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > >>iPageSize records > >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > >> > >>' Get parameters > >>' set number of records per page > >> > >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > >> > >>' Set page to show or default to 1 > >> > >>iPageCurrent = 2 > >> > >> > >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something > >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > >>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > >>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > >> > >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > >> > >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > >>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > >> > >> > >>Debug.Print strSQL > >> > >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... > >>' Create and open our connection > >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > >>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > >>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > >>' Create recordset and set the page size > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > >> > >>' You can change other settings as with any RS > >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > >>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > >> > >>' Open RS > >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > >>adCmdText > >> > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > >> > >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) > >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > >>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > >> > >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > >>If iPageCount = 0 Then > >>Debug.Print "No records found!" > >>Else > >>' Move to the selected page > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>' Start output with a page x of n line > >> > >>' Show field names in the top row > >>Dim strtitles As String > >>strtitles = "" > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > >>Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > >> > >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > >>iRecordsShown = 0 > >>Dim strFields As String > >>strFields = "" > >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > >> > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >> > >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > >> > >>Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > >>'clear strfields shown > >>strFields = "" > >> > >>' Increment the number of records we've shown > >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! > >>objPagingRS.MoveNext > >>Loop > >> > >>' All done - close table > >> > >>End If > >> > >>' Close DB objects and free variables > >>objPagingRS.Close > >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing > >>objPagingConn.Close > >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >> > >>Martin Reid wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want > >>> > >>> > >to > > > > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from > >>> > >>> > >SQL > > > > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >>>freely between pages. > >>> > >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > >>> > >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > >>> > >>>MArtin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 14:54:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:54:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7A@main2.marlow.com> Hey, I also develop in SQL Server. It isn't 'derailing' my point, it is missing my point. There is a difference. If you don't set your fields to 'can grow' when needed, and you can't explain to the users that if they type data long then the box you give them, then you do have problems. Big problems. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 4:28 PM: >Ugh. No, that is not where that argument goes. You are building them a >tool in Access. Access suffices for their needs. Why limit them even >further? If it makes you happy, set the field limit to 254, if you don't >want to set it to Access' maximum. The point is, if you think that you'll >probably never go over 50, so you set it at 55, to give yourself 5 extra >characters, why not go the entire way, IN ACCESS, and just use 255. If you >think it is going to be an issue with reporting, or whatever, if someone >puts in more then 50 characters, include data validation that tells the user >that an Address, or Name, or whatever field it is, of that length may not >display properly in some reports. > > > What good is data if they can't use it? If your reports don't display it and they (tho not all clients) aren't smart enough to know to scroll or CTRL-A to get the entire field, what does it matter how "big" you make the field. One of the arguments for the max LENGTH was that it would avoid an unnecessary visit to the client side, however you're still going to have visit them to fix a report or a screen. So what's the difference, that they can store it?, what does it matter, to them they will still say it's "CUT OFF" and YES, I have had this occur, maybe not in the last 3 months but I haven't done any contract work in over a year. >Please stop bringing up the move to SQL server, it's getting very redundant, >and it isn't the point I am trying to make (nor JC). > > I don't think it to be redundant, just that it derails the "POINT" you're trying to make. Not everyone lives in a bubble and some of us do develop in other engines other than Access, such as MS Sql or mySQL.. and by your logic, I should just use the maximum field length because it's THERE. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 14:57:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:57:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7B@main2.marlow.com> Good reason to get involved. It'll probably take a few 'ughs', like I've had lately to really set the mentality I have in stone. I used to be pretty wishy washy on the matter, but have been hit far too many times with this one particular issue. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I really don't think that we disagree. I don't even think what you are doing is wrong. It's more of a practice that I don't follow and you do. The whole reason I got involved in this topic was to see if maybe I should change my practice. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu May 27 15:02:36 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:02:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Message-ID: <83520-22004542720236911@christopherhawkins.com> Hello all! So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. THE CHALLENGE: Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions to view and update it. Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can provide sample code. In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can find... Suggestions? -Christopher Hawkins- From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 15:09:02 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:09:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7A@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B64ADE.4080806@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 12:54 PM: >Hey, I also develop in SQL Server. It isn't 'derailing' my point, it is >missing my point. There is a difference. > >If you don't set your fields to 'can grow' when needed, and you can't >explain to the users that if they type data long then the box you give them, >then you do have problems. Big problems. > > let me clarify this a bit, I have had to work on someone else's db because they set a long field size but reports nor, forms reflected it. Granted the client wasn't computer savy but a few quick changes that I billed at my door service rate and nothing else was all that was needed, Not an Hour and a half like you stated, however if I had needed to increase a field size I doubt it would have taken me that long either way. I don't set limits to fields to restrict the user from doing what they need, I do it to limit how much data should go in that particular field. I determine how big the data should be based on the business rules my client has. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:09:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:09:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7C@main2.marlow.com> > WOW way to burn time... you obviously didn't have the right tools for the job, because if you can ADD and you can DELETE a field, then you can ALTER... and it takes no more than a few minutes, that's w/ the time it takes to find the field and either write up the command or use a gui interface to do it all... 2 fields, that's nothing, you were just using a hammer.... Actually, the 'web interface' tool, that their IT department let me have access to had Add and Delete LINKS. I then had a place to run querries. I couldn't tell if I could run 'scripts' or not. I used my 'copy' on my SQL server, to make a script to do the job. However, what I have at home is named differently, and I was 99% sure I didn't have all of the latest design changes, so I had two problems with trying to use a script to solve. One, I couldn't use the script MY Enterprise Manager created, without modifying it. And to modify it, I would have had to dig through all of the changes that were made to the current system. Two, I wasn't even sure if it would run a script. I said Query, not script. So I used the links provided, and query capabilities provided. I may not have had done the process perfectly. I'll definitely admit that. Of course, the correct way this should have been solved, is for their IT guy to go to the console with Enterprise Manager, and change the field properties and click okay. Work done. However, it was a live system. I was getting zero support from their IT department, so I used a method I was confident I wouldn't screw up their LIVE data with. >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to >where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > > No it's not, and you ripped off your client. Sorry, but unless that's what you charged for just showing up, that's a rip. -- -Francisco No, I didn't rip off my client. It took me an hour and a half to fix a problem HE created. He knows it, I know it. Am I supposed to spend my time fixing his mistakes for free? There was somewhat of a time pressure involved, and I was handed a tool to 'work with' SQL Server that I had never had before. I didn't have any other access to their system. (I couldn't even create an ASP page to do what I wanted to do.) I only had access to this 'web tool'. So trust me, he got off light, with it only taking 1.5 hours. He had already spent FIVE hours trying to figure out how to do anything in that 'web tool'. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:27:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:27:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7F@main2.marlow.com> I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with SQL. It think you are going to have to make a 'change' during import. From what you are describing, it sounds like the only indication of whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit is the order of the dates. I think you are getting a 'group by' deposit type, and sort by type, then date, you're just not getting the deposit type field. Just write an import routine, that reads the data in the same order it is dumped. Set a boolean flag, and a 'temp' date variable. set the date variable to the date you looked at previously, and before you import a record, determine if the date has 'rolled back'. If it has, then set your boolean variable. Use the boolean variable in the line where you record the value, and set it to 0-value if the boolean is set, else, set it to value. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 15:28:20 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:28:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7C@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B64F64.6010003@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 1:09 PM: No, I didn't rip off my client. It took me an hour and a half to fix a problem HE created. He knows it, I know it. Am I supposed to spend my time fixing his mistakes for free? There was somewhat of a time pressure involved, and I was handed a tool to 'work with' SQL Server that I had never had before. I didn't have any other access to their system. (I couldn't even create an ASP page to do what I wanted to do.) I only had access to this 'web tool'. So trust me, he got off light, with it only taking 1.5 hours. He had already spent FIVE hours trying to figure out how to do anything in that 'web tool'. ... This reminds me of that scene in Shainghai Noon where the guy is burried in the dirt, and he is only given chopsticks to dig his way out. :). I've never had a problem w/ clients and their IT people... so I can't say I would have resorted to the same methods you took... in any case you mentioned that he had bad db practices, so choosing an overly restrictive field is very appropriate, still you stuck it to your client who in this case was a developer. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:36:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF80@main2.marlow.com> Yep. LOL. When I did the change in Enterprise manager, Enterprise manager created a page and a half long script. That script actually created a temp table, sent the data to the temp table, then destroyed the original table, and changed the name of the temp table. Here's the script that Enterprise Manager created: /* Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:02:46 PM User: Server: DWHOME2000 Database: ******** Application: MS SQLEM - Data Tools */ BEGIN TRANSACTION SET QUOTED_IDENTIFIER ON SET TRANSACTION ISOLATION LEVEL SERIALIZABLE SET ARITHABORT ON SET NUMERIC_ROUNDABORT OFF SET CONCAT_NULL_YIELDS_NULL ON SET ANSI_NULLS ON SET ANSI_PADDING ON SET ANSI_WARNINGS ON COMMIT BEGIN TRANSACTION ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logWorkRelated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRecordable GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logNearMiss GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDeath GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOccupationalIllness GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInPatient GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLeftWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logBackToWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logHospitalized GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDuty GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyRelease GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFinishedTreatment GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationRequested GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferOrTerminated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDrugScreePerformed GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTaskRoutine GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logPPERequiredUse GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_PPE GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Vehicle GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Ergononic GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Law GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Claimcost GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logCA1CA2 GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferred GO ALTER TABLE dbo.tblIncidents DROP CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOnEmployersPremises GO CREATE TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ( I_pk_Incident int NOT NULL IDENTITY (1, 1) NOT FOR REPLICATION, I_txtCaseNumber nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datDateAddedToTable datetime NULL, I_txtCaseCode nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtCaseYear nvarchar(2) NULL, I_txtCaseCount nvarchar(4) NULL, I_txtPersonID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSocialSecurityNumber nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtPersonFullName nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtMiddleName nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtLastName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtStreetAddress1 nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtStreetAddress2 nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtCity nvarchar(35) NULL, I_txtState nvarchar(2) NULL, I_txtZipCode nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtSex nvarchar(1) NULL, I_txtCompanyID nvarchar(20) NULL, I_txtCompany_Name nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtSiteID nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtSiteName nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtSiteNamePerson nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtHierarchy1 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy2 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy3 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy4 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtHierarchy5 nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtOrganizationalCode1 nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtOrganizationalCode2 nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtMaritalStatus nvarchar(20) NULL, I_datDateOfBirth datetime NULL, I_txtHomePhone nvarchar(14) NULL, I_txtJobTitle nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtShift nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtShiftDescription nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtPersonnelStatus nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtWorkPhoneNumber nvarchar(14) NULL, I_txtEmailAddress nvarchar(50) NULL, I_datDateOfHire datetime NULL, I_txtMailStop nvarchar(25) NULL, I_txtIncidentType nvarchar(40) NULL, I_datIncidentDate datetime NULL, I_datIncidentTime varchar(50) NULL, I_logWorkRelated bit NOT NULL, I_logRecordable bit NOT NULL, I_logNearMiss bit NOT NULL, I_txtSeverityofIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtNatureOfInury nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtBodyPart nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtBodyPartSide nvarchar(10) NULL, I_txtBodyPartSecondary nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtSourceOfIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtSecondarySourceOfIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtAccidentEventType nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtRegularJobClass nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtJobClassAtIncident nvarchar(40) NULL, I_intHoursWorkedPriorToIncident smallint NULL, I_logDeath bit NOT NULL, I_datDateOfDeath datetime NULL, I_logOccupationalIllness bit NOT NULL, I_txtIllnessDescription nvarchar(60) NULL, I_txtWorksiteLocation nvarchar(255) NULL, I_txtHospitalID nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtHospitalName nvarchar(50) NULL, I_logInPatient bit NOT NULL, I_txtDoctorID nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtDoctorName nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtSupervisorNotified nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtSupervisorFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtSupervisorLastName nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtWitnessEmployeeID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtWitnessFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtWitnessLastName nvarchar(11) NULL, I_datDateNotifiedOfIncident datetime NULL, I_datTimeNotifiedOfIncident varchar(50) NULL, I_datTimeBeganWork varchar(50) NULL, I_logLeftWork bit NOT NULL, I_datDateLeftWork datetime NULL, I_datTimeLeftWork datetime NULL, I_logBackToWork bit NOT NULL, I_datDateBackToWork datetime NULL, I_datTimeBackToWork datetime NULL, I_txtOSHALogDescription nvarchar(60) NULL, I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern bit NOT NULL, I_txtFirstAidProvidedTime datetime NULL, I_txtFirstAidTypeProvided nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtFirstAidPersonFullName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_txtFirstAidEmployeeID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtFirstAidFirstName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_txtFirstAidLastName nvarchar(15) NULL, I_logHospitalized bit NOT NULL, I_datDateOfInitialTreatment datetime NULL, I_datTimeAdmittedToHospital datetime NULL, I_datDateOutOfHospital datetime NULL, I_datTimeOutOfHospital datetime NULL, I_intWorkDaysLost smallint NULL, I_intChargedDaysLost smallint NULL, I_intCalendarDaysLost smallint NULL, I_logRestrictedDuty bit NOT NULL, I_logRestrictedDutyRelease bit NOT NULL, I_intRestrictedDutyDays smallint NULL, I_intRestrictedDutyCalendarDays smallint NULL, I_logFinishedTreatment bit NOT NULL, I_datRestrictedDutyCheckupDate datetime NULL, I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone bit NOT NULL, I_logEvaluationRequested bit NOT NULL, I_txtEvaluationType nvarchar(40) NULL, I_logEvaluationCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_datEvaluationCompletionDate datetime NULL, I_datEvaluationFollowupDate datetime NULL, I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_datReportCirculationDate datetime NULL, I_logTransferOrTerminated bit NOT NULL, I_intAccidentLocation smallint NULL, I_txtAccidentLocationInsurance nvarchar(35) NULL, I_logDrugScreePerformed bit NOT NULL, I_datDrugScreenPerformedDate datetime NULL, I_txtTaskPerformed nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtTaskExperience nvarchar(40) NULL, I_logTaskRoutine bit NOT NULL, I_txTaskTimeSinceLastPerformed nvarchar(10) NULL, I_datTaskLastTrainedOn datetime NULL, I_txtTaskTrainerName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_logPPERequiredUse bit NOT NULL, I_txtPPETypeRequired nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtPPETypeUsed nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtContributingConditions nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtContributingActions nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtEquipmentProcess nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtEquipmentProcessPart nvarchar(40) NULL, I_txtJobTrainingDescription nvarchar(40) NULL, I_datShortTermCompletionDate datetime NULL, I_datShortTermFollowupDate datetime NULL, I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_datLongTermCompletionDate datetime NULL, I_datLongTermFollowupDate datetime NULL, I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted bit NOT NULL, I_txtSupervisorID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSupervisorName nvarchar(35) NULL, I_datSupervisorReviewedDate datetime NULL, I_txtSupervisorWorkPhoneNumber nvarchar(13) NULL, I_txtSupervisorMailStop nvarchar(5) NULL, I_txtPlantManagerID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtPlantManagerName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datPlantManagerReviewDate datetime NULL, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datSafetyCoordinatorReviewDate datetime NULL, I_txtSafetyDirectorID nvarchar(11) NULL, I_txtSafetyDirectorName nvarchar(25) NULL, I_datSafetyDirectorReviewDate datetime NULL, I_logFlag_PPE bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Vehicle bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Ergononic bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Law bit NOT NULL, I_logFlag_Claimcost bit NOT NULL, I_logCA1CA2 bit NOT NULL, I_Tag nvarchar(50) NULL, I_intYear smallint NULL, I_txtMonth nvarchar(2) NULL, I_datDateLastUpdated datetime NULL, I_logTransferred bit NOT NULL, I_curTotalCost money NULL, I_curTotalInitialReserves money NULL, I_logOnEmployersPremises bit NOT NULL, I_CurDemand money NULL, I_txtAssigned nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtBenefits nvarchar(50) NULL, I_txtRepresentation nvarchar(50) NULL ) ON [PRIMARY] GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logWorkRelated DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logWorkRelated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRecordable DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRecordable GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logNearMiss DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logNearMiss GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDeath DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logDeath GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOccupationalIllness DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logOccupationalIllness GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInPatient DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logInPatient GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLeftWork DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logLeftWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logBackToWork DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logBackToWork GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logHospitalized DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logHospitalized GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDuty DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRestrictedDuty GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyRelease DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRestrictedDutyRelease GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFinishedTreatment DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFinishedTreatment GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationRequested DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logEvaluationRequested GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logEvaluationCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logEvaluationCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferOrTerminated DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logTransferOrTerminated GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logDrugScreePerformed DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logDrugScreePerformed GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTaskRoutine DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logTaskRoutine GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logPPERequiredUse DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logPPERequiredUse GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_PPE DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_PPE GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Vehicle DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Vehicle GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Ergononic DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Ergononic GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Law DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Law GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logFlag_Claimcost DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logFlag_Claimcost GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logCA1CA2 DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logCA1CA2 GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logTransferred DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logTransferred GO ALTER TABLE dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ADD CONSTRAINT DF_tblIncidents_I_logOnEmployersPremises DEFAULT (0) FOR I_logOnEmployersPremises GO SET IDENTITY_INSERT dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents ON GO IF EXISTS(SELECT * FROM dbo.tblIncidents) EXEC('INSERT INTO dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents (I_pk_Incident, I_txtCaseNumber, I_datDateAddedToTable, I_txtCaseCode, I_txtCaseYear, I_txtCaseCount, I_txtPersonID, I_txtSocialSecurityNumber, I_txtPersonFullName, I_txtFirstName, I_txtMiddleName, I_txtLastName, I_txtStreetAddress1, I_txtStreetAddress2, I_txtCity, I_txtState, I_txtZipCode, I_txtSex, I_txtCompanyID, I_txtCompany_Name, I_txtSiteID, I_txtSiteName, I_txtSiteNamePerson, I_txtHierarchy1, I_txtHierarchy2, I_txtHierarchy3, I_txtHierarchy4, I_txtHierarchy5, I_txtOrganizationalCode1, I_txtOrganizationalCode2, I_txtMaritalStatus, I_datDateOfBirth, I_txtHomePhone, I_txtJobTitle, I_txtShift, I_txtShiftDescription, I_txtPersonnelStatus, I_txtWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtEmailAddress, I_datDateOfHire, I_txtMailStop, I_txtIncidentType, I_datIncidentDate, I_datIncidentTime, I_logWorkRelated, I_logRecordable, I_logNearMiss, I_txtSeverityofIncident, I_txtNatureOfInury, I_txtBodyPart, I_txtBodyPartSide, I_txtBodyPartSecondary, I_txtSourceOfIncident, I_txtSecondarySourceOfIncident, I_txtAccidentEventType, I_txtRegularJobClass, I_txtJobClassAtIncident, I_intHoursWorkedPriorToIncident, I_logDeath, I_datDateOfDeath, I_logOccupationalIllness, I_txtIllnessDescription, I_txtWorksiteLocation, I_txtHospitalID, I_txtHospitalName, I_logInPatient, I_txtDoctorID, I_txtDoctorName, I_txtSupervisorNotified, I_txtSupervisorFirstName, I_txtSupervisorLastName, I_txtWitnessEmployeeID, I_txtWitnessFirstName, I_txtWitnessLastName, I_datDateNotifiedOfIncident, I_datTimeNotifiedOfIncident, I_datTimeBeganWork, I_logLeftWork, I_datDateLeftWork, I_datTimeLeftWork, I_logBackToWork, I_datDateBackToWork, I_datTimeBackToWork, I_txtOSHALogDescription, I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern, I_txtFirstAidProvidedTime, I_txtFirstAidTypeProvided, I_txtFirstAidPersonFullName, I_txtFirstAidEmployeeID, I_txtFirstAidFirstName, I_txtFirstAidLastName, I_logHospitalized, I_datDateOfInitialTreatment, I_datTimeAdmittedToHospital, I_datDateOutOfHospital, I_datTimeOutOfHospital, I_intWorkDaysLost, I_intChargedDaysLost, I_intCalendarDaysLost, I_logRestrictedDuty, I_logRestrictedDutyRelease, I_intRestrictedDutyDays, I_intRestrictedDutyCalendarDays, I_logFinishedTreatment, I_datRestrictedDutyCheckupDate, I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone, I_logEvaluationRequested, I_txtEvaluationType, I_logEvaluationCompleted, I_datEvaluationCompletionDate, I_datEvaluationFollowupDate, I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted, I_datReportCirculationDate, I_logTransferOrTerminated, I_intAccidentLocation, I_txtAccidentLocationInsurance, I_logDrugScreePerformed, I_datDrugScreenPerformedDate, I_txtTaskPerformed, I_txtTaskExperience, I_logTaskRoutine, I_txTaskTimeSinceLastPerformed, I_datTaskLastTrainedOn, I_txtTaskTrainerName, I_logPPERequiredUse, I_txtPPETypeRequired, I_txtPPETypeUsed, I_txtContributingConditions, I_txtContributingActions, I_txtEquipmentProcess, I_txtEquipmentProcessPart, I_txtJobTrainingDescription, I_datShortTermCompletionDate, I_datShortTermFollowupDate, I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted, I_datLongTermCompletionDate, I_datLongTermFollowupDate, I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted, I_txtSupervisorID, I_txtSupervisorName, I_datSupervisorReviewedDate, I_txtSupervisorWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtSupervisorMailStop, I_txtPlantManagerID, I_txtPlantManagerName, I_datPlantManagerReviewDate, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorID, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorName, I_datSafetyCoordinatorReviewDate, I_txtSafetyDirectorID, I_txtSafetyDirectorName, I_datSafetyDirectorReviewDate, I_logFlag_PPE, I_logFlag_Vehicle, I_logFlag_Ergononic, I_logFlag_Law, I_logFlag_Claimcost, I_logCA1CA2, I_Tag, I_intYear, I_txtMonth, I_datDateLastUpdated, I_logTransferred, I_curTotalCost, I_curTotalInitialReserves, I_logOnEmployersPremises, I_CurDemand, I_txtAssigned, I_txtBenefits, I_txtRepresentation) SELECT I_pk_Incident, I_txtCaseNumber, I_datDateAddedToTable, I_txtCaseCode, I_txtCaseYear, I_txtCaseCount, I_txtPersonID, I_txtSocialSecurityNumber, I_txtPersonFullName, I_txtFirstName, I_txtMiddleName, I_txtLastName, I_txtStreetAddress1, I_txtStreetAddress2, I_txtCity, I_txtState, I_txtZipCode, I_txtSex, I_txtCompanyID, I_txtCompany_Name, I_txtSiteID, I_txtSiteName, I_txtSiteNamePerson, I_txtHierarchy1, I_txtHierarchy2, I_txtHierarchy3, I_txtHierarchy4, I_txtHierarchy5, I_txtOrganizationalCode1, I_txtOrganizationalCode2, I_txtMaritalStatus, I_datDateOfBirth, I_txtHomePhone, I_txtJobTitle, I_txtShift, I_txtShiftDescription, I_txtPersonnelStatus, I_txtWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtEmailAddress, I_datDateOfHire, I_txtMailStop, I_txtIncidentType, I_datIncidentDate, CONVERT(varchar(50), I_datIncidentTime), I_logWorkRelated, I_logRecordable, I_logNearMiss, I_txtSeverityofIncident, I_txtNatureOfInury, I_txtBodyPart, I_txtBodyPartSide, I_txtBodyPartSecondary, I_txtSourceOfIncident, I_txtSecondarySourceOfIncident, I_txtAccidentEventType, I_txtRegularJobClass, I_txtJobClassAtIncident, I_intHoursWorkedPriorToIncident, I_logDeath, I_datDateOfDeath, I_logOccupationalIllness, I_txtIllnessDescription, I_txtWorksiteLocation, I_txtHospitalID, I_txtHospitalName, I_logInPatient, I_txtDoctorID, I_txtDoctorName, I_txtSupervisorNotified, I_txtSupervisorFirstName, I_txtSupervisorLastName, I_txtWitnessEmployeeID, I_txtWitnessFirstName, I_txtWitnessLastName, I_datDateNotifiedOfIncident, CONVERT(varchar(50), I_datTimeNotifiedOfIncident), CONVERT(varchar(50), I_datTimeBeganWork), I_logLeftWork, I_datDateLeftWork, I_datTimeLeftWork, I_logBackToWork, I_datDateBackToWork, I_datTimeBackToWork, I_txtOSHALogDescription, I_logOSHAPrivacyConcern, I_txtFirstAidProvidedTime, I_txtFirstAidTypeProvided, I_txtFirstAidPersonFullName, I_txtFirstAidEmployeeID, I_txtFirstAidFirstName, I_txtFirstAidLastName, I_logHospitalized, I_datDateOfInitialTreatment, I_datTimeAdmittedToHospital, I_datDateOutOfHospital, I_datTimeOutOfHospital, I_intWorkDaysLost, I_intChargedDaysLost, I_intCalendarDaysLost, I_logRestrictedDuty, I_logRestrictedDutyRelease, I_intRestrictedDutyDays, I_intRestrictedDutyCalendarDays, I_logFinishedTreatment, I_datRestrictedDutyCheckupDate, I_logRestrictedDutyCheckupDone, I_logEvaluationRequested, I_txtEvaluationType, I_logEvaluationCompleted, I_datEvaluationCompletionDate, I_datEvaluationFollowupDate, I_logInitialIncidentReportCompleted, I_datReportCirculationDate, I_logTransferOrTerminated, I_intAccidentLocation, I_txtAccidentLocationInsurance, I_logDrugScreePerformed, I_datDrugScreenPerformedDate, I_txtTaskPerformed, I_txtTaskExperience, I_logTaskRoutine, I_txTaskTimeSinceLastPerformed, I_datTaskLastTrainedOn, I_txtTaskTrainerName, I_logPPERequiredUse, I_txtPPETypeRequired, I_txtPPETypeUsed, I_txtContributingConditions, I_txtContributingActions, I_txtEquipmentProcess, I_txtEquipmentProcessPart, I_txtJobTrainingDescription, I_datShortTermCompletionDate, I_datShortTermFollowupDate, I_logShortTermFollowUpCompleted, I_datLongTermCompletionDate, I_datLongTermFollowupDate, I_logLongTermFollowupCompleted, I_txtSupervisorID, I_txtSupervisorName, I_datSupervisorReviewedDate, I_txtSupervisorWorkPhoneNumber, I_txtSupervisorMailStop, I_txtPlantManagerID, I_txtPlantManagerName, I_datPlantManagerReviewDate, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorID, I_txtSafetyCoordinatorName, I_datSafetyCoordinatorReviewDate, I_txtSafetyDirectorID, I_txtSafetyDirectorName, I_datSafetyDirectorReviewDate, I_logFlag_PPE, I_logFlag_Vehicle, I_logFlag_Ergononic, I_logFlag_Law, I_logFlag_Claimcost, I_logCA1CA2, I_Tag, I_intYear, I_txtMonth, I_datDateLastUpdated, I_logTransferred, I_curTotalCost, I_curTotalInitialReserves, I_logOnEmployersPremises, I_CurDemand, I_txtAssigned, I_txtBenefits, I_txtRepresentation FROM dbo.tblIncidents TABLOCKX') GO SET IDENTITY_INSERT dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents OFF GO DROP TABLE dbo.tblIncidents GO EXECUTE sp_rename N'dbo.Tmp_tblIncidents', N'tblIncidents', 'OBJECT' GO GRANT SELECT ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo GRANT UPDATE ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo GRANT INSERT ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo GRANT DELETE ON dbo.tblIncidents TO AirUser AS dbo COMMIT Honestly never used ALTER COLUMN before. I will admit I am still a novice at SQL Server. But I can do all of the stuff I need from Enterprise Manager just fine. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various So let me get this straight... You just got paid $150 to do what could have been accomplished with the following SQL statement: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN MyField varchar(255) So, can you pass along my name to them? Heck, I'd be willing to do that for a mere $75! ;-) From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 27 15:39:29 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:39:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? In-Reply-To: <83520-22004542720236911@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000001c4442a$b5468770$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Christopher Try something like this. You must set a Reference to the Outlook Library. Function CreateContact(frm As Form) Dim objOutlook As Outlook.Application Dim objOutlookNameSpace As Outlook.NameSpace Dim objOutlookItem As Outlook.ContactItem Dim objOutlookFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder 'Create the Outlook session Set objOutlook = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") Set objOutlookNameSpace = objOutlook.GetNamespace("MAPI") 'Amend this line to get your contacts folder. Set objOutlookFolder = objOutlookNameSpace.Folders("Public Folders Or Your Top Level").Folders("Next Level").Folders("And So On To Your Folder") Set objOutlookItem = objOutlookFolder.Items.Add(olContactItem) With objOutlookItem .BusinessFaxNumber = Nz(frm!txtFax, "") .BusinessTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtPhone, "") .CompanyName = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName, "") .Department = Nz(frm!txtDept, "") .Email1AddressType = "SMTP" .Email1Address = Nz(frm!txtEmail, "") .FileAs = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") .Fullname = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") .JobTitle = Nz(frm!txtJobTitle, "") .MobileTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtMobile, "") .Subject = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName & " (" & frm!txtContactName & ")", "") .Save End With Exit_CreateContact: Call SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) Set objOutlookItem = Nothing Set objOutlookFolder = Nothing Set objOutlookNameSpace = Nothing Set objOutlook = Nothing End Function -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: 27 May 2004 21:03 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? > > > Hello all! > > So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction > with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea > how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. > > THE CHALLENGE: > > Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must > add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution > list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. > > The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's > Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions > to view and update it. > > Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for > Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can > provide sample code. > > In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can find... > > Suggestions? > > -Christopher Hawkins- > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:38:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:38:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF81@main2.marlow.com> I just changed the 'default' text field size for Access to 255, cause I am lazy too. All my fields default to 255 that way. (Though I admit before I changed the 'Access' setting, I was leaving them at 50, unless I thought it would get close). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 or maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to Access' table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the table design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big deal, there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would irk me more than this. BUT ... Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved into a waste of bits and bandwidth. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past >few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was >Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But >I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >isolated incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 15:47:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:47:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF82@main2.marlow.com> Their was an Add-in, for Access 97, to link Exchange/Outlook tables. In A2k it was included. When you use the Link Table wizard, change the database type from Access to Exchange (Or Outlook). It will then lookup your current MAPI profile, and display what you would see in the Outlook Folder List. Pick a folder, and the wizard then creates a linked table for that folder. I recommend for testing, that you actually IMPORT the data, to test it in a truly Access table, then switch back to a linked Exchange table. Linked Exchange tables seem a little bit slow. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Hello all! So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. THE CHALLENGE: Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions to view and update it. Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can provide sample code. In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can find... Suggestions? -Christopher Hawkins- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu May 27 15:58:38 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:58:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Message-ID: <254630-220045427205838736@christopherhawkins.com> Andy, This looks good for creating the contact. Do you also have sample code to add a contact to a distribution list? -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:39:29 +0100 >Christopher > >Try something like this. You must set a Reference to the Outlook >Library. > > >Function CreateContact(frm As Form) >Dim objOutlook As Outlook.Application >Dim objOutlookNameSpace As Outlook.NameSpace >Dim objOutlookItem As Outlook.ContactItem >Dim objOutlookFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > >'Create the Outlook session >Set objOutlook = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") >Set objOutlookNameSpace = objOutlook.GetNamespace("MAPI") >'Amend this line to get your contacts folder. >Set objOutlookFolder = objOutlookNameSpace.Folders("Public Folders >Or Your >Top Level").Folders("Next Level").Folders("And So On To Your Folder") > >Set objOutlookItem = objOutlookFolder.Items.Add(olContactItem) >With objOutlookItem > .BusinessFaxNumber = Nz(frm!txtFax, "") > .BusinessTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtPhone, "") > .CompanyName = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName, "") > .Department = Nz(frm!txtDept, "") > .Email1AddressType = "SMTP" > .Email1Address = Nz(frm!txtEmail, "") > .FileAs = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > .Fullname = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > .JobTitle = Nz(frm!txtJobTitle, "") > .MobileTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtMobile, "") > .Subject = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName & " (" & frm!txtContactName & >")", "") > .Save >End With > >Exit_CreateContact: >Call SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) >Set objOutlookItem = Nothing >Set objOutlookFolder = Nothing >Set objOutlookNameSpace = Nothing >Set objOutlook = Nothing >End Function > > >-- Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Christopher Hawkins >> Sent: 27 May 2004 21:03 >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution >List? >> >> >> Hello all! >> >> So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction >> with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea >> how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. >> >> THE CHALLENGE: >> >> Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must >> add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution >> list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. >> >> The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's >> Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions >> to view and update it. >> >> Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for >> Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can >> provide sample code. >> >> In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can >find... >> >> Suggestions? >> >> -Christopher Hawkins- >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd >> Website: >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Thu May 27 16:04:45 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:04:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08D6CC03@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Yeah, but what happens if an account has only deposits or only withdrawals? Or how about if the first deposit is dated *after* the last withdrawal? Unless there's some other indicator in the record, there won't be a perfectly reliable way to separate deposits from withdrawals. IIRC, Monarch is a tool that parses text files representing "formatted reports." In the "report" there must be some indicator that identifies deposits, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make sense of it when reading it. You should be able to instruct Monarch to capture that identifying characteristic (even if it contains something meaningless for withdrawals) and then use that to segregate the transactions. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with SQL. It think you are going to have to make a 'change' during import. From what you are describing, it sounds like the only indication of whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit is the order of the dates. I think you are getting a 'group by' deposit type, and sort by type, then date, you're just not getting the deposit type field. Just write an import routine, that reads the data in the same order it is dumped. Set a boolean flag, and a 'temp' date variable. set the date variable to the date you looked at previously, and before you import a record, determine if the date has 'rolled back'. If it has, then set your boolean variable. Use the boolean variable in the line where you record the value, and set it to 0-value if the boolean is set, else, set it to value. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Thu May 27 16:06:42 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:06:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF7F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <200405272105.RAA04353@jake.bcentralhost.com> Jim: If you are using Monarch Pro to parse the bank statement, it may be possible to capture deposit or withdrawal as part of the data. Does the bank statement have the word "Deposit" somewhere before the deposit records and "Withdrawals" before the withdrawal records, or some other distictive text that separates the two? If so, you should be able to capture that and add it to each record. You can set up an Append Template to search for specific text and add that to all subsequent records. I've done that in the past with some fairly complicated mainframe reports that we needed to parse and with a little creative trial and error, you can often differentiate records that look identical as long as there is some header information somewhere in the report. A purely Access solution would be to open a recordset and walk through it one record at a time, convert fldDate to a real date and compare that to the fldDate of the previous record. When the new date is earlier than the previous date, you know that record, and all the the rest of the records, are withdrawals and you can update fldAmt to fldAmt * -1.0 . James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu May 27 16:09:05 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:09:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution List? In-Reply-To: <254630-220045427205838736@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <000201c4442e$d7f83990$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Never done it but give me a few minutes. I'll see what I can do. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hawkins > Sent: 27 May 2004 21:59 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook > Distibution List? > > > Andy, > > This looks good for creating the contact. Do you also have > sample code to add a contact to a distribution list? > > -Christopher- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook > Distibution List? > Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:39:29 +0100 > > >Christopher > > > >Try something like this. You must set a Reference to the Outlook > >Library. > > > > > >Function CreateContact(frm As Form) > >Dim objOutlook As Outlook.Application > >Dim objOutlookNameSpace As Outlook.NameSpace > >Dim objOutlookItem As Outlook.ContactItem > >Dim objOutlookFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > > > >'Create the Outlook session > >Set objOutlook = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") > >Set objOutlookNameSpace = objOutlook.GetNamespace("MAPI") > 'Amend this > >line to get your contacts folder. Set objOutlookFolder = > >objOutlookNameSpace.Folders("Public Folders Or Your > >Top Level").Folders("Next Level").Folders("And So On To Your Folder") > > > >Set objOutlookItem = objOutlookFolder.Items.Add(olContactItem) > >With objOutlookItem > > .BusinessFaxNumber = Nz(frm!txtFax, "") > > .BusinessTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtPhone, "") > > .CompanyName = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName, "") > > .Department = Nz(frm!txtDept, "") > > .Email1AddressType = "SMTP" > > .Email1Address = Nz(frm!txtEmail, "") > > .FileAs = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > > .Fullname = Nz(frm!txtContactName, "") > > .JobTitle = Nz(frm!txtJobTitle, "") > > .MobileTelephoneNumber = Nz(frm!txtMobile, "") > > .Subject = Nz(frm!txtCompanyName & " (" & frm!txtContactName & > >")", "") > > .Save > >End With > > > >Exit_CreateContact: > >Call SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > >Set objOutlookItem = Nothing > >Set objOutlookFolder = Nothing > >Set objOutlookNameSpace = Nothing > >Set objOutlook = Nothing > >End Function > > > > > >-- Andy Lacey > >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >> Christopher Hawkins > >> Sent: 27 May 2004 21:03 > >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >> Subject: [AccessD] A2K3: Add eMail Addy to Outlook Distibution > >List? > >> > >> > >> Hello all! > >> > >> So, I have finally been called upon to do some interaction > >> with Outlook via Access...and I don't have the foggiest idea > >> how to do it! I already took to Google, but got nothing usable. > >> > >> THE CHALLENGE: > >> > >> Given an Access database with customer records in it, I must > >> add selected customer records to a Newsletter distribution > >> list in Outlook via a button click from the Customer screen. > >> > >> The Newsletter distribution list resides within UserA's > >> Contacts folder, but everyone in the office has permissions > >> to view and update it. > >> > >> Hopefully somebody can point me to a good resource for > >> Access-Outlook interaction, or has done this before and can > >> provide sample code. > >> > >> In the meantime, I'll head back to Google and see what I can > >find... > >> > >> Suggestions? > >> > >> -Christopher Hawkins- > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > >> Website: > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 16:10:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:10:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF83@main2.marlow.com> ... This reminds me of that scene in Shainghai Noon where the guy is burried in the dirt, and he is only given chopsticks to dig his way out. :). I've never had a problem w/ clients and their IT people... so I can't say I would have resorted to the same methods you took... in any case you mentioned that he had bad db practices, so choosing an overly restrictive field is very appropriate, still you stuck it to your client who in this case was a developer. -- -Francisco Well it's a back and forth issue on this particular project. I won't go into details on that. Don't take this particular case as typical with me. I do a LOT of work for this particular guy. Sometimes he gets the deal of the century from me, sometimes he gives me way more then what I did for the project, and sometimes it's just even. This particular job was one where we both got hammered really hard. He made a lot of decisions with that job, that I strongly disagreed with, and he knew it. So yes, I stuck him, because it was his decision for a lot of things. We were fought by their IT department on a lot of things too, and this guy doesn't have my IT experience to really bypass their issues. Yes, it was a lot like the scene you describe (though I haven't seen the movie, I understand the premise). There were a lot of other issues too. His client contacts me with issues. If it's an issue I am responsible for, I fix without charge, or hassle. If it's his arena, or new specs, I go through him, and ignore his client. But I went to this client a while back, with the developer, and while there, I fixed some of the 'data' issues (Not problems with my stuff, and not really problems with his stuff, just people entering incorrect data....which kind of leans towards his problems, cause he uses .... ahem... user entered text fields as primary keys.... (please, those of you faint of heart, please go outside and relax for a bit, I promise I won't shock you again like that in this email. ). During that 'meeting'/'local fix time', there were a few field issues, which he (MY client, the developer) said he would change. Three weeks go by, and I have his client asking me when the changes are going to be made. No one can get ahold of him, they are getting very impatient. So I made the call to go ahead and fix them. I first asked their IT department to do it. (described exactly what they needed to do...would have taken THEM about 2 minutes, if that). I had talked to the developer before hand, and he said he had spent a lot of time muddling around in that 'web tool', and had no idea how to make the changes. So with all of that behind me, I did what I knew how to do, safely, and it worked. And your gosh darn right I stuck it too him. I didn't hold him at gun point though. He and I trade services quite often, so he could have bartered with me. But he didn't even try. I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. Just as another little peice of info, I've moved 3 times in the past year (once because of a woman....., once because of a fire, and once to get away from a woman. Actually, the fire was started (supposedly) by some kid being pissed at a girlfriend, and tossing a maltose (sp?) cocktail in her window. So, I've moved three time because of women. Okay, this is getting OT.) Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. We have a pretty solid relationship. Drew From marcus at tsstech.com Thu May 27 16:29:05 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: On the flip side, Drew. If the client had the field size set to the max and was only using a very small portion of that max and then suddenly started using a large portion of that field(because a business rule changed), you may have problems with complex reports that take way more than 1 & 1/2 hours to fix. You may also have other issues, like database growth that wasn't planned for. I know I'm reaching, just curious. One abuse I can think of was a client that started putting in Husband and Wife names into the firstname field (that I set at 50 characters). This caused mailing and invoice problems as well as office confusion. Sure, you may say that this is a training issue, but they did it because it worked around a new business requirement that the program lacked. In most cases, their work around didn't cause a problem. When it did cause a problem guess who got the blame? The client only calls when there are problems. It doesn't matter if it's a field being too small or too big. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > WOW way to burn time... you obviously didn't have the right tools for the job, because if you can ADD and you can DELETE a field, then you can ALTER... and it takes no more than a few minutes, that's w/ the time it takes to find the field and either write up the command or use a gui interface to do it all... 2 fields, that's nothing, you were just using a hammer.... Actually, the 'web interface' tool, that their IT department let me have access to had Add and Delete LINKS. I then had a place to run querries. I couldn't tell if I could run 'scripts' or not. I used my 'copy' on my SQL server, to make a script to do the job. However, what I have at home is named differently, and I was 99% sure I didn't have all of the latest design changes, so I had two problems with trying to use a script to solve. One, I couldn't use the script MY Enterprise Manager created, without modifying it. And to modify it, I would have had to dig through all of the changes that were made to the current system. Two, I wasn't even sure if it would run a script. I said Query, not script. So I used the links provided, and query capabilities provided. I may not have had done the process perfectly. I'll definitely admit that. Of course, the correct way this should have been solved, is for their IT guy to go to the console with Enterprise Manager, and change the field properties and click okay. Work done. However, it was a live system. I was getting zero support from their IT department, so I used a method I was confident I wouldn't screw up their LIVE data with. >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to >where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > > No it's not, and you ripped off your client. Sorry, but unless that's what you charged for just showing up, that's a rip. -- -Francisco No, I didn't rip off my client. It took me an hour and a half to fix a problem HE created. He knows it, I know it. Am I supposed to spend my time fixing his mistakes for free? There was somewhat of a time pressure involved, and I was handed a tool to 'work with' SQL Server that I had never had before. I didn't have any other access to their system. (I couldn't even create an ASP page to do what I wanted to do.) I only had access to this 'web tool'. So trust me, he got off light, with it only taking 1.5 hours. He had already spent FIVE hours trying to figure out how to do anything in that 'web tool'. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu May 27 16:45:38 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:45:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE616@TAPPEEXCH01> >Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. Sure, any good friend would help you move... But would he help you move a BODY? Aw c'mon people, laugh a little! It's Friday somewhere! -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:11 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various ... This reminds me of that scene in Shainghai Noon where the guy is burried in the dirt, and he is only given chopsticks to dig his way out. :). I've never had a problem w/ clients and their IT people... so I can't say I would have resorted to the same methods you took... in any case you mentioned that he had bad db practices, so choosing an overly restrictive field is very appropriate, still you stuck it to your client who in this case was a developer. -- -Francisco Well it's a back and forth issue on this particular project. I won't go into details on that. Don't take this particular case as typical with me. I do a LOT of work for this particular guy. Sometimes he gets the deal of the century from me, sometimes he gives me way more then what I did for the project, and sometimes it's just even. This particular job was one where we both got hammered really hard. He made a lot of decisions with that job, that I strongly disagreed with, and he knew it. So yes, I stuck him, because it was his decision for a lot of things. We were fought by their IT department on a lot of things too, and this guy doesn't have my IT experience to really bypass their issues. Yes, it was a lot like the scene you describe (though I haven't seen the movie, I understand the premise). There were a lot of other issues too. His client contacts me with issues. If it's an issue I am responsible for, I fix without charge, or hassle. If it's his arena, or new specs, I go through him, and ignore his client. But I went to this client a while back, with the developer, and while there, I fixed some of the 'data' issues (Not problems with my stuff, and not really problems with his stuff, just people entering incorrect data....which kind of leans towards his problems, cause he uses .... ahem... user entered text fields as primary keys.... (please, those of you faint of heart, please go outside and relax for a bit, I promise I won't shock you again like that in this email. ). During that 'meeting'/'local fix time', there were a few field issues, which he (MY client, the developer) said he would change. Three weeks go by, and I have his client asking me when the changes are going to be made. No one can get ahold of him, they are getting very impatient. So I made the call to go ahead and fix them. I first asked their IT department to do it. (described exactly what they needed to do...would have taken THEM about 2 minutes, if that). I had talked to the developer before hand, and he said he had spent a lot of time muddling around in that 'web tool', and had no idea how to make the changes. So with all of that behind me, I did what I knew how to do, safely, and it worked. And your gosh darn right I stuck it too him. I didn't hold him at gun point though. He and I trade services quite often, so he could have bartered with me. But he didn't even try. I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. Just as another little peice of info, I've moved 3 times in the past year (once because of a woman....., once because of a fire, and once to get away from a woman. Actually, the fire was started (supposedly) by some kid being pissed at a girlfriend, and tossing a maltose (sp?) cocktail in her window. So, I've moved three time because of women. Okay, this is getting OT.) Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. We have a pretty solid relationship. Drew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 16:50:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:50:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF84@main2.marlow.com> LOL. He probably would. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Anyhow, this developer has helped me move three times. Sure, any good friend would help you move... But would he help you move a BODY? Aw c'mon people, laugh a little! It's Friday somewhere! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 17:02:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:02:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF85@main2.marlow.com> Good points, but in 99% of the stuff I deal with, they don't apply. I build mostly ASP interfaces. In this particular case, the data was now in SQL server, so db size is neglible. That was the case even in Access. They do have a SLOW SQL server though. Since the interface (for both data entry and reporting) is in ASP, the HTML doesn't care how long the data is, it's in an HTML table, and there is never an issue of getting stuff cut off. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various On the flip side, Drew. If the client had the field size set to the max and was only using a very small portion of that max and then suddenly started using a large portion of that field(because a business rule changed), you may have problems with complex reports that take way more than 1 & 1/2 hours to fix. You may also have other issues, like database growth that wasn't planned for. I know I'm reaching, just curious. One abuse I can think of was a client that started putting in Husband and Wife names into the firstname field (that I set at 50 characters). This caused mailing and invoice problems as well as office confusion. Sure, you may say that this is a training issue, but they did it because it worked around a new business requirement that the program lacked. In most cases, their work around didn't cause a problem. When it did cause a problem guess who got the blame? The client only calls when there are problems. It doesn't matter if it's a field being too small or too big. Scott Marcus TSS Technologies, Inc. marcus at tsstech.com (513) 772-7000 From my.lists at verizon.net Thu May 27 17:19:10 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:19:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF83@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF83@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40B6695E.60900@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 2:10 PM: I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. sounds completely like you both had a bad client problem. -- -Francisco From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu May 27 16:40:21 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:40:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <001901c4441c$4878b5e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <00f301c44433$36c83d90$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Martin, I recall an article on this recently, but couldn't find it. I did find these references: Manual Paging: http://mceahern.manilasites.com/dotnet/pagingpart1 Thread: How to limit the result set for performance: http://www.sqljunkies.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=373 Paging through Records using a Stored Procedure: http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/062899-1.shtml Hope this puts you on the right track-- -Ken From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu May 27 17:47:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:47:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40B6FCA1.14232.3581895@localhost> On 27 May 2004 at 9:22, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > Andy's interpretation of my comments is correct. Here is an example: > > tblPhotos tblProperties > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID > PhotoPath pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. > PhotoComments etc. > This won't work - Properties->Photos and AccomUnits->Photos are both OneToMany > Or > > tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties > PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. etc. > PhotoComments etc. etc. > Since it's not ManyToMany. the tblPropertyPhotos is redundant, you could achieve exactly the same thing with a fkPropertyId in tblPhotos. Unfortunately, neither deal with the current situation, which is that some photos relate to tblProperties and some photos relate to tlbAccomUNits. I'm actually looking for pointer as to the best way to handle child records which are identical except that they have parents in different tables (in this case with a further parent/child relationship to consider) AccomUnits are Children of Properties. Photos can be either children of AccomUnits( therefore Grandchildren of Properties) or direct children of properties. (Sort of like a hillbilly family ) where you will have EITHER a direct link through FKProp or FPAccomUnit (but never both) and where tblAccomUnit also has a FKProperty. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu May 27 17:47:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:47:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF8A@main2.marlow.com> Yep. Sure did. LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 5:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/27/2004 2:10 PM: I think he knew I was the one that pulled HIM out of the fire on that, because his client was getting pissed at him. sounds completely like you both had a bad client problem. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu May 27 18:05:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jcolby) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:05:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <000201c44419$6c069b60$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: >Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that Nice to hear that. The answer is, I got very busy and no one else seems to want to contribute on the subject. ;-) JWColby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 or maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to Access' table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the table design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big deal, there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would irk me more than this. BUT ... Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved into a waste of bits and bandwidth. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running the first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by someone else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, I know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked before, now you broke it'. Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an hour and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location where an accident occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the company running this thing refused to make the change in field size (long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned from messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based 'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I had to make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, and longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have taken just about as long for just that one). So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 for fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought the system from the original developer. The original developer hired me to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. I was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system works, but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws in the original system. Since they have paid for the completely project, he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' work, and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server remotely. Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something close to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: >There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! > >Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the past >few months) >by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 was >Charlotte had >a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. But >I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >isolated incident. > > How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how difficult was that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu May 27 19:05:38 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:05:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <220950-2200455280538379@christopherhawkins.com> Post it up again! It might get a new lease on life now that we don't have that Text field size flamewar to distract us anymore. ;) -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:05:32 -0400 >>Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually >learning things from that > >Nice to hear that. The answer is, I got very busy and no one else >seems to >want to contribute on the subject. ;-) > >JWColby > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve >Conklin >(Developer at UltraDNT) >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:36 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly >lazy. if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 >or >maybe memo. If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255. >Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo. The hoops you went >through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to >Access' >table design. It is a 30 second change most of the time for the >table >design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big >deal, >there are thousands of things a "bad" developer might do that would >irk >me more than this. > >BUT ... > >Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually >learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over >relatively inconsequential minutiae. This thread had devolved >into a >waste of bits and bandwidth. > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running >the >first time. When someone asks me to work on a system built by >someone >else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, >I >know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked >before, now you broke it'. > >Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an >hour >and a half to do. (Why? Because the original 'size limit' was set in >Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server. The original size >limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location >where >an accident >occurred) was ported into SQL server also. The IT department at the >company running this thing refused to make the change in field size >(long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned >from >messing with the project, for a while). So I had a little web based >'interface' to the SQL Server. Unfortunately, it didn't allow for >actual field 'changes'. I could 'add' and 'delete' fields. So I >had to >make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the >temp field. delete the old field, make a new field with same name, >and >longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and >then delete the old field. With the amount of data involved, and the >delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour >and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have >taken just about as long for just that one). > >So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 >for >fixing it. No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it. > >However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of >pocket for the original developer, NOT the client. The client bought >the system from the original developer. The original developer >hired me >to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system. I did that. >The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server. >I >was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server. The system >works, >but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws >in >the original system. Since they have paid for the completely >project, >he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' >work, >and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with >handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the >original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the >original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server >remotely. > >Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something >close >to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop? > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H >Tapia >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > > >DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM: > >>There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! >> >>Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again. JC and I >>have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the >past >>few >months) >>by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit. >>However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 >was > >>Charlotte >had >>a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least. >But >>I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an >>isolated incident. >> >> >How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how >difficult was that? > >-- >-Francisco > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu May 27 19:05:15 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:05:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives Message-ID: <00a901c44447$74d13150$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 I wanna show the answer as 2 I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response It was something simple like clng(blah) many thanks in advance DD From CMackin at Quiznos.com Thu May 27 19:11:38 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:11:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives Message-ID: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412849@bross.quiznos.net> Abs() -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:05 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives Hello all I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 I wanna show the answer as 2 I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response It was something simple like clng(blah) many thanks in advance DD -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu May 27 19:52:25 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:52:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF73@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew...And that about sums it up Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I know, just when you think you have the world figured out, JC and Drew agree about something, and Gustav tosses all internationalization issues out the window. Go figure. Welcome to AccessD: All Controversial Conversations Exceed Standard Size, DOH! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hi John and Drew A nice couple, you two. Now, who would have believed that? /gustav >>hmmmmmm.....who keeps bringing up internationalization issues? LOL > Thanks Drew, I needed that! > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Thu May 27 20:04:06 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:04:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives topositives Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191CBF@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> Abs(x) > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:05 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert > negatives topositives > > > Hello all > > I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. > I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg > -1 + -1 = -2 I wanna show the answer as 2 > > I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find > the response It was something simple like clng(blah) > > many thanks in advance > > DD > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu May 27 20:41:36 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:41:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negativesto positives References: <19F28F0B4284C04FB90CAA380451FFD9412849@bross.quiznos.net> Message-ID: <010b01c44454$ea0cb720$48619a89@DDICK> Chris and Martin many thanks - that was it this list is awwweeesssome See ya D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mackin, Christopher" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negativesto positives > Abs() > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:05 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives > to positives > > > Hello all > > I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. > I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 > I wanna show the answer as 2 > > I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response > It was something simple like clng(blah) > > many thanks in advance > > DD > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjones at btl.net Thu May 27 21:48:35 2004 From: pjones at btl.net (Paul M. Jones) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:48:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: I've forgotten the syntax to convert negatives to positives In-Reply-To: <00a901c44447$74d13150$48619a89@DDICK> References: <00a901c44447$74d13150$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040527204813.03202890@btlmail.btl.net> If I'm not mistaken the function is Abs() At 06:05 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote: >Hello all > >I have a couple of numbers that are negatives. >I wanna sum 'em then turn 'em the result into a positive eg -1 + -1 = -2 >I wanna show the answer as 2 > >I got an answer of this list before - can't rememeber or find the response >It was something simple like clng(blah) > >many thanks in advance > >DD > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 01:04:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:04:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> <40B63745.4020509@shaw.ca> <001901c4441c$4878b5e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <40B6D65F.2060807@shaw.ca> What about putting a VB datagrid control on the form and dumping the recordset data into that.? Martin Reid wrote: >What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the server >in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to Page them >down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > >On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the user >chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of records >they get. > >Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to handle >the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but will give >ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the >wire. > >The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start the >process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records ordered by >"A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > >They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again ordered >by "B" and so on and so on. > >No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > > >So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First >Last but we would also have > >Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or 2000 >down would be ok. > >Any of this make sense?? > >OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it >>XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read only. >>There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable recordsets. I >>must be looking at something the wrong way. >> >>Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection >>Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >> >>Private Sub Command0_Click() >> cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ >> "Data Source=(local);" & _ >> "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ >> "User ID=sa;" & _ >> "Password=;" >> cnn.Open >> rst.Source = "Select * from authors" >> rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient >> rst.Open , cnn >> Set Me.Recordset = rst >>End Sub >> >> >>paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >> >> >> >>>Martin, >>>Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar >>> >>> >is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table >and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have >something like > > >>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And >>> >>> >tblTempCounterField<=100 > > >>>then change the query to >>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And >>> >>> >tblTempCounterField<=200 > > >>>etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. >>>Paul Hartland >>>PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it >>> >>> >for future reference. > > >>> >>> >>> >>>Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>>>From : "Martin Reid" >>>To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>Copy to : >>>Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>>I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. >>> >>>Martin >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >>>> >>>>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>>>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>>>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>>>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>>>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>>>' Move to the selected page number >>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>> >>>>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>http://www.asp101.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing >>>>in an array >>>>There are probably articles floating around as to best method for >>>>performance >>>> >>>> >>>>Sub AdoPaging() >>>>'stolen from >>>>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>>>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>>>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>>>Dim CONN_USER As String >>>>Dim CONN_PASS As String >>>> >>>>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>>>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ >>>>"User Id=admin;" & "Password=" >>>> >>>>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>>>' Comment out to use Access >>>>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ >>>>' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ >>>>' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" >>>>'CONN_USER = "samples" >>>>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>>>' END USER CONSTANTS >>>> >>>>' Declare our vars >>>>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>>>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>>>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>>>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>>>passing them >>>>Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>>>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>>>iPageSize records >>>>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>>>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>>>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >>>> >>>>' Get parameters >>>>' set number of records per page >>>> >>>>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >>>> >>>>' Set page to show or default to 1 >>>> >>>>iPageCurrent = 2 >>>> >>>> >>>>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>>>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>>>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. >>>>' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. >>>>'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >>>> >>>>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>>>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >>>> >>>>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. >>>>strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >>>> >>>> >>>>Debug.Print strSQL >>>> >>>>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>>>' Create and open our connection >>>>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection >>>>'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS >>>>objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>>>' Create recordset and set the page size >>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>>>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>>> >>>>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>>>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>>>objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize >>>> >>>>' Open RS >>>>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, >>>>adCmdText >>>> >>>>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>>>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>>> >>>>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>>>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>>>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount >>>>If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >>>> >>>>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! >>>>If iPageCount = 0 Then >>>>Debug.Print "No records found!" >>>>Else >>>>' Move to the selected page >>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>> >>>>' Start output with a page x of n line >>>> >>>>' Show field names in the top row >>>>Dim strtitles As String >>>>strtitles = "" >>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " >>>>Next 'I >>>>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >>>> >>>>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record >>>>iRecordsShown = 0 >>>>Dim strFields As String >>>>strFields = "" >>>>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >>>> >>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>> >>>>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >>>> >>>>Next 'I >>>>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>>>'clear strfields shown >>>>strFields = "" >>>> >>>>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>>>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>>>' Can't forget to move to the next record! >>>>objPagingRS.MoveNext >>>>Loop >>>> >>>>' All done - close table >>>> >>>>End If >>>> >>>>' Close DB objects and free variables >>>>objPagingRS.Close >>>>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>>>objPagingConn.Close >>>>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >>>> >>>>End Sub >>>> >>>> >>>>Martin Reid wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>SQL >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at >>>>> >>>>> >the > > >>>>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then >>>>> >>>>> >move > > >>>>>freely between pages. >>>>> >>>>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. >>>>> >>>>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? >>>>> >>>>>MArtin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Marty Connelly >>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 28 04:11:13 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:11:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF75@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF75@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <888046149.20040528111113@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > Now Gustav, that is a VERY valid point. And one that is constantly glossed > over whenever we debate 'bad practice' issues. > Something is really only bad practice when done by someone that doesn't > realize what they are doing. Just like tossing matches into a bucket of > gasoline is bad practice, if the person is a fire marshal, and they are > doing it for a very specific reason, then it should be done. > Same with almost every other topic that has come up with 'bad practice' > implications. You are a good developer, so I honestly don't think I would > every have to worry about field size limits in a database built by you. > However, in the beginning of this thread, I was mentioning that a college > course was having their students set field size limits on all of their > fields. (10 characters for a first name, etc.) So my point was that the > 'established' education system out there is teaching bad habits (along with > spaces in the table names, etc). Ahh - I've forgot that for a moment. True, that's a bad habit. Now, does that make three of us? /gustav >> Just out of curiousity, how many times have you been called, because someone >> set a field size limit to 255, and the users couldn't enter their data? Not >> theory, how many actual times. > I don't recall ever to have had to adjust this limit. That's because > I'm so good to anticipate the client's need. >> In the past 3 months, I have had 3 incidents were a db built by a previous >> developer had field size limits, which I had to increase, because the users >> were entering more data into the field. On top of that, most of what I had >> done was either new data entry screens, or reporting screens, and both of >> those worked just fine with the new 'length' of the data, it was just the db >> that couldn't store what they wanted. > Well, those previous developers were bad developers. >> Now, assuming (cause it's a pretty safe assumption) that you have never had >> a user complain they couldn't put what they needed into a 255 character >> field, how do you think the previous developer looked, when I come in, and >> say, 'Yep, whoever built this set the maximum field length to 35 >> characters.', which I then get replied 'Why did he/she do that?', and what >> do I answer? 'Got me, guess they figured that's all you needed'. What do >> you think those clients think of their original developers? > It all sums up, that to limit a text field length you must be a good > programmer; if you are not, just don't. (No reverse conclusions should > be made.) From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 07:35:33 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:35:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Message-ID: <000a01c444b0$4555a4b0$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to All! I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find mention of this limitation. I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects (FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. TIA, Dan Waters From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri May 28 07:54:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:54:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... Message-ID: I would welcome comments from others regarding my approach. Am I alone in my thinking? Should I be doing something different in my own development? Because it seems there is a fundamental difference in the way we each normalize data. I was always taught that a junction table (like tblPropertyPhotos) is the way to handle a potential many to many relationship. I don't see the table as being redundant at all. For instance the rare instance where a photograph taken from a street corner shows two adjacent properties, or the obvious instance of multiple photographs of a single property. So to address your current situation, what I was trying to explain was a structure like this: tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. And this: tblPhotos_1 tblAccomUnitPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblAccomUnits PhotoPath fkAccomUnitID___________pkAccomUnitID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Where tblPhotos and tblPhotos_1 are the same table holding paths to ALL of your photographs. The bonus feature of handling it like this is that it would allow you to add photographs of anything you would like to track in the future, such as: tblPhotos_2 tblRepairPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblRepairs PhotoPath fkRepairID______________pkRepairID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Or: tblPhotos_3 tblEmployeePhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblEmployees PhotoPath fkEmployeeID____________pkEmployeeID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. The upshot is that one particular PhotoID could be associated with a repair, a Property, an AccomUnit or anything else you care to add to your structure. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... On 27 May 2004 at 9:22, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport Ne wrote: > Andy's interpretation of my comments is correct. Here is an example: > > tblPhotos tblProperties > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID > PhotoPath pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. > PhotoComments etc. > This won't work - Properties->Photos and AccomUnits->Photos are both OneToMany > Or > > tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos > pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties > PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID > PhotoDate etc. etc. > PhotoComments etc. etc. > Since it's not ManyToMany. the tblPropertyPhotos is redundant, you could achieve exactly the same thing with a fkPropertyId in tblPhotos. Unfortunately, neither deal with the current situation, which is that some photos relate to tblProperties and some photos relate to tlbAccomUNits. I'm actually looking for pointer as to the best way to handle child records which are identical except that they have parents in different tables (in this case with a further parent/child relationship to consider) AccomUnits are Children of Properties. Photos can be either children of AccomUnits( therefore Grandchildren of Properties) or direct children of properties. (Sort of like a hillbilly family ) where you will have EITHER a direct link through FKProp or FPAccomUnit (but never both) and where tblAccomUnit also has a FKProperty. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 28 09:19:37 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:19:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 28 09:20:53 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:20:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5C@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> That will work. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks! Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query I don't think you can do what you are trying to do with SQL. It think you are going to have to make a 'change' during import. From what you are describing, it sounds like the only indication of whether it's a withdrawal or a deposit is the order of the dates. I think you are getting a 'group by' deposit type, and sort by type, then date, you're just not getting the deposit type field. Just write an import routine, that reads the data in the same order it is dumped. Set a boolean flag, and a 'temp' date variable. set the date variable to the date you looked at previously, and before you import a record, determine if the date has 'rolled back'. If it has, then set your boolean variable. Use the boolean variable in the line where you record the value, and set it to 0-value if the boolean is set, else, set it to value. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri May 28 09:23:19 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:23:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5D@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> There is a line that says "withdrawals and debits" at the top of the first page of withdrawals. I'll take a look at the append template. Thanks. Jim -----Original Message----- From: James Barash [mailto:James at fcidms.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Jim: If you are using Monarch Pro to parse the bank statement, it may be possible to capture deposit or withdrawal as part of the data. Does the bank statement have the word "Deposit" somewhere before the deposit records and "Withdrawals" before the withdrawal records, or some other distictive text that separates the two? If so, you should be able to capture that and add it to each record. You can set up an Append Template to search for specific text and add that to all subsequent records. I've done that in the past with some fairly complicated mainframe reports that we needed to parse and with a little creative trial and error, you can often differentiate records that look identical as long as there is some header information somewhere in the report. A purely Access solution would be to open a recordset and walk through it one record at a time, convert fldDate to a real date and compare that to the fldDate of the previous record. When the new date is earlier than the previous date, you know that record, and all the the rest of the records, are withdrawals and you can update fldAmt to fldAmt * -1.0 . James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 28 10:23:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:23:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF91@main2.marlow.com> I would say so. Drew Ahh - I've forgot that for a moment. True, that's a bad habit. Now, does that make three of us? /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 10:25:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:25:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of records they get. Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the wire. The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again ordered by "B" and so on and so on. No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First Last but we would also have Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or 2000 down would be ok. Any of this make sense?? OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it > XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read > only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable > recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Private Sub Command0_Click() > cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ > "Data Source=(local);" & _ > "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ > "User ID=sa;" & _ > "Password=;" > cnn.Open > rst.Source = "Select * from authors" > rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient > rst.Open , cnn > Set Me.Recordset = rst > End Sub > > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > >Martin, > >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something > >similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 > > > >then change the query to > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 > > > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul > >Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know > >how to do it for future reference. > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM > >>From : "Martin Reid" > >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Copy to : > >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in > >Access. > > > >Martin > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > >> > >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = > >>iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > >>' Move to the selected page number > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from > >> > >> > >http://www.asp101.com > > > > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including > >>placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as > >>to best method for performance > >> > >> > >>Sub AdoPaging() > >>'stolen from > >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > >>Dim CONN_STRING As String > >>Dim CONN_USER As String > >>Dim CONN_PASS As String > >> > >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & > >>"Password=" > >> > >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > >>' Comment out to use Access > >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & > >>"Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network > >>Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" > >>'CONN_PASS = "password" > >>' END USER CONSTANTS > >> > >>' Declare our vars > >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > >>passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > >>iPageSize records > >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > >> > >>' Get parameters > >>' set number of records per page > >> > >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > >> > >>' Set page to show or default to 1 > >> > >>iPageCurrent = 2 > >> > >> > >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something > >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What > >>you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT > >>* FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > >> > >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > >> > >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = > >>"SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > >> > >> > >>Debug.Print strSQL > >> > >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... > >>' Create and open our connection > >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open > >>CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > >>' Create recordset and set the page size > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > >> > >>' You can change other settings as with any RS > >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = > >>iPageSize > >> > >>' Open RS > >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, > >>adLockReadOnly, adCmdText > >> > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = > >>objPagingRS.PageCount > >> > >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) > >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If > >>iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > >> > >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are > >>returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" > >>Else > >>' Move to the selected page > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > >> > >>' Start output with a page x of n line > >> > >>' Show field names in the top row > >>Dim strtitles As String > >>strtitles = "" > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > >> > >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown > >>= 0 Dim strFields As String > >>strFields = "" > >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > >> > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > >> > >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > >> > >>Next 'I > >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > >>'clear strfields shown > >>strFields = "" > >> > >>' Increment the number of records we've shown > >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext > >>Loop > >> > >>' All done - close table > >> > >>End If > >> > >>' Close DB objects and free variables > >>objPagingRS.Close > >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing > >>objPagingConn.Close > >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >> > >>Martin Reid wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I > >>>want > >>> > >>> > >to > > > > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned > >>>from > >>> > >>> > >SQL > > > > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all > >>>at the > >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc > >>>then move > >>>freely between pages. > >>> > >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one > >>>time. > >>> > >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be > >>>available? > >>> > >>>MArtin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 28 10:35:48 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:35:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: Message-ID: <001b01c444c9$7368f4b0$9111758f@aine> Havnt got to that part yet (<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. > Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. > How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to > Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the > user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of > records they get. > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but > will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the > records down the wire. > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start > the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records > ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First > Last but we would also have > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or > 2000 down would be ok. > > Any of this make sense?? > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it > > > XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read > > only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable > > recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. > > > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > > > Private Sub Command0_Click() > > cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ > > "Data Source=(local);" & _ > > "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ > > "User ID=sa;" & _ > > "Password=;" > > cnn.Open > > rst.Source = "Select * from authors" > > rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient > > rst.Open , cnn > > Set Me.Recordset = rst > > End Sub > > > > > > paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > > > >Martin, > > >Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something > > >similar > is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary > table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access > query have something like > > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And > tblTempCounterField<=100 > > > > > >then change the query to > > >SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And > tblTempCounterField<=200 > > > > > >etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul > > >Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know > > > >how to do it > for future reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM > > >>From : "Martin Reid" > > >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > >Copy to : > > >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > >I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in > > >Access. > > > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "MartyConnelly" > > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM > > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > >> > > >>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > > >>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = > > >>iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > > >>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > >>' Move to the selected page number > > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > >> > > >>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from > > >> > > >> > > >http://www.asp101.com > > > > > > > > >>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including > > >>placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as > > >>to best method for performance > > >> > > >> > > >>Sub AdoPaging() > > >>'stolen from > > >>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > > >>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > > >>Dim CONN_STRING As String > > >>Dim CONN_USER As String > > >>Dim CONN_PASS As String > > >> > > >>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > > >>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > > >>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & > > >>"Password=" > > >> > > >>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > > >>' Comment out to use Access > > >>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & > > >>"Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network > > >>Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" > > >>'CONN_PASS = "password" > > >>' END USER CONSTANTS > > >> > > >>' Declare our vars > > >>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > > >>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > > >>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > > >>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > > >>passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > > >>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > > >>iPageSize records > > >>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > > >>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > > >>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > >> > > >>' Get parameters > > >>' set number of records per page > > >> > > >>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > >> > > >>' Set page to show or default to 1 > > >> > > >>iPageCurrent = 2 > > >> > > >> > > >>' If you're doing this script with a search or something > > >>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > > >>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What > > >>you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT > > > >>* FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > >> > > >>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > > >>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > >> > > >>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = > > >>"SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > >> > > >> > > >>Debug.Print strSQL > > >> > > >>' Now we finally get to the DB work... > > >>' Create and open our connection > > >>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open > > >>CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > > >>' Create recordset and set the page size > > >>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > > >>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > >> > > >>' You can change other settings as with any RS > > >>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = > > >>iPageSize > > >> > > >>' Open RS > > >>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, > > >>adLockReadOnly, adCmdText > > >> > > >>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = > > >>objPagingRS.PageCount > > >> > > >>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > > >>' give them the closest match (1 or max) > > >>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If > > >>iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > >> > > >>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are > > >>returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" > > >>Else > > >>' Move to the selected page > > >>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > >> > > >>' Start output with a page x of n line > > >> > > >>' Show field names in the top row > > >>Dim strtitles As String > > >>strtitles = "" > > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > >>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I > > >>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > >> > > >>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown > > >>= 0 Dim strFields As String > > >>strFields = "" > > >>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > >> > > >>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > >> > > >>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > >> > > >>Next 'I > > >>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > > >>'clear strfields shown > > >>strFields = "" > > >> > > >>' Increment the number of records we've shown > > >>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > > >>' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext > > >>Loop > > >> > > >>' All done - close table > > >> > > >>End If > > >> > > >>' Close DB objects and free variables > > >>objPagingRS.Close > > >>Set objPagingRS = Nothing > > >>objPagingConn.Close > > >>Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > >> > > >>End Sub > > >> > > >> > > >>Martin Reid wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I > > >>>want > > >>> > > >>> > > >to > > > > > > > > >>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned > > >>>from > > >>> > > >>> > > >SQL > > > > > > > > >>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all > > >>>at > the > > >>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc > > >>>then > move > > >>>freely between pages. > > >>> > > >>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one > > >>>time. > > >>> > > >>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be > > >>>available? > > >>> > > >>>MArtin > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>-- > > >>Marty Connelly > > >>Victoria, B.C. > > >>Canada > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>AccessD mailing list > > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Fri May 28 10:36:29 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:36:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <020301c444c9$8b7e6c10$6601a8c0@rock> In my infallible opinion, you are quite right. :-) Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Accomodation Register - Was: On DB Bloat... I would welcome comments from others regarding my approach. Am I alone in my thinking? Should I be doing something different in my own development? Because it seems there is a fundamental difference in the way we each normalize data. I was always taught that a junction table (like tblPropertyPhotos) is the way to handle a potential many to many relationship. I don't see the table as being redundant at all. For instance the rare instance where a photograph taken from a street corner shows two adjacent properties, or the obvious instance of multiple photographs of a single property. So to address your current situation, what I was trying to explain was a structure like this: tblPhotos tblPropertyPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblProperties PhotoPath fkPropertyID____________pkPropertyID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. And this: tblPhotos_1 tblAccomUnitPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblAccomUnits PhotoPath fkAccomUnitID___________pkAccomUnitID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Where tblPhotos and tblPhotos_1 are the same table holding paths to ALL of your photographs. The bonus feature of handling it like this is that it would allow you to add photographs of anything you would like to track in the future, such as: tblPhotos_2 tblRepairPhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblRepairs PhotoPath fkRepairID______________pkRepairID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. Or: tblPhotos_3 tblEmployeePhotos pkPhotoID_________fkPhotoID tblEmployees PhotoPath fkEmployeeID____________pkEmployeeID PhotoDate etc. PhotoComments etc. The upshot is that one particular PhotoID could be associated with a repair, a Property, an AccomUnit or anything else you care to add to your structure. Mark From artful at rogers.com Fri May 28 10:39:17 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FC5B@corp-es01.FLEETPRIDE.COM> Message-ID: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, rather than debited? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 28 10:38:06 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:38:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3131259378.20040528173806@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > server in one hit. All of them. .. > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > wire. /gustav > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. > Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. > How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to > Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the > user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of > records they get. > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but > will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the > records down the wire. > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start > the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records > ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First > Last but we would also have > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or > 2000 down would be ok. > Any of this make sense?? > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > Martin From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri May 28 10:47:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:47:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BAF96@main2.marlow.com> Maybe it stands for 'drain', not debit. Like your terrorist comment. They really just need to have their accounts balanced, or closed permanently. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, rather than debited? Arthur From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 28 10:49:43 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:49:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <3131259378.20040528173806@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001701c444cb$64f5b290$9111758f@aine> Confusing me LOL We have a database with up to 100,000 records. the design calls for retrieval of all records at the moment. no filtering so we simply open a recordset and grap all the records. For 100,000 this is slow. I should have said provide access to all 100,000 without the use of filtering by the user. What I was wondering is could we do something like the web. Bring the data down in blocks of say 1000. User can then page through the blocks and move within a block of records. So we would have Page 1 of X Pages. User could then go to Page 2 or page 3 etc. It gets a little more sophisicated after this. Save us getting all the records at the start. Or any other way we could reduce the number of records without having to add a filter that the user has to enter or select? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Hi Charlotte > > I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? > Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. .. > > > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > > wire. > > /gustav > > > > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. > > Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. > > How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to > > Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the > > user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of > > records they get. > > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but > > will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the > > records down the wire. > > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start > > the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records > > ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". > > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. > > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First > > Last but we would also have > > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or > > 2000 down would be ok. > > > Any of this make sense?? > > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 10:53:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:53:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: But isn't the user selecting "pages"? How is that different from, say, selecting a tab or button for the letter "Q"? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Confusing me LOL We have a database with up to 100,000 records. the design calls for retrieval of all records at the moment. no filtering so we simply open a recordset and grap all the records. For 100,000 this is slow. I should have said provide access to all 100,000 without the use of filtering by the user. What I was wondering is could we do something like the web. Bring the data down in blocks of say 1000. User can then page through the blocks and move within a block of records. So we would have Page 1 of X Pages. User could then go to Page 2 or page 3 etc. It gets a little more sophisicated after this. Save us getting all the records at the start. Or any other way we could reduce the number of records without having to add a filter that the user has to enter or select? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Hi Charlotte > > I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? > Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. .. > > > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > > wire. > > /gustav > > > > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" > > camp. Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound > > continuous form. How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is > > to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page > > the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each > > batch of records they get. > > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO > > but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all > > the records down the wire. > > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we > > start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 > > records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 > > ordered by "A". > > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records > > available. > > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, > > First Last but we would also have > > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 > > or 2000 down would be ok. > > > Any of this make sense?? > > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri May 28 11:14:54 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:14:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD83A1@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Probably "Debit Record", but considering this thread is about a bank produced file which does not distinguish between debits and credits, but instead leaves it up the reader (human or machine) to figure it out, it's just as likely to mean "Dubious Report". Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- > an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > > I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or > cr. Jim Hale > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > > Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you > actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > > Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 > records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both > positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where > withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant > fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, > tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; > > fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are > listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with > 4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal > records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit > item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria > (or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of > deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not > khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA > > Jim Hale > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri May 28 11:19:37 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:19:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <01b201c444cf$9344dfa0$6401a8c0@default> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- > an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir meaning left and right, respectively. They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using the double-entry system. Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Fri May 28 11:33:50 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:33:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: Message-ID: <000f01c444d1$8fdbd920$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> well I am hoping that bring down blocks of records on demand means they dont have to sit and wait for 15 mins. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > But isn't the user selecting "pages"? How is that different from, say, > selecting a tab or button for the letter "Q"? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > Confusing me LOL > > We have a database with up to 100,000 records. the design calls for > retrieval of all records at the moment. no filtering so we simply open a > recordset and grap all the records. For 100,000 this is slow. I should > have said provide access to all 100,000 without the use of filtering by > the user. > > What I was wondering is could we do something like the web. Bring the > data down in blocks of say 1000. User can then page through the blocks > and move within a block of records. So we would have Page 1 of X Pages. > User could then go to Page 2 or page 3 etc. It gets a little more > sophisicated after this. > > Save us getting all the records at the start. > > Or any other way we could reduce the number of records without having to > add a filter that the user has to enter or select? > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > Hi Charlotte > > > > I'm glad you asked - I felt lost here. What pages? > > Besides, Martin, isn't this contradictory: > > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > > server in one hit. All of them. .. > > > > > .. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the records down the > > > wire. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" > > > camp. Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound > > > continuous form. How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] > > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > > > > What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the > > > server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is > > > to Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. > > > > > On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page > > > the user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each > > > batch of records they get. > > > > > Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to > > > handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO > > > but will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all > > > the records down the wire. > > > > > The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we > > > start the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 > > > records ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 > > > ordered by "A". > > > > > They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again > > > ordered by "B" and so on and so on. > > > > > No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records > > > available. > > > > > > > So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, > > > First Last but we would also have > > > > > Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 > > > or 2000 down would be ok. > > > > > Any of this make sense?? > > > > > OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 11:35:16 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:35:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: I know the hardest thing to explain to non-accountants is the simple rule that debits are on the left and credits are on the right! When I was a banker, it was even more confusing because to a bank, credits (loans) are assets and debits (deposits) are liabilities, just the opposite of to the customer. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael R Mattys [mailto:michael.mattys at adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Debits and Credits ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me > -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir meaning left and right, respectively. They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using the double-entry system. Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 28 11:51:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:51:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <000f01c444d1$8fdbd920$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <000f01c444d1$8fdbd920$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <3435660386.20040528185127@cactus.dk> Hi Martin But what kind of connection are you left with? On a normal LAN that would be 15 seconds max. ... for the index only, for sorting and "paging", only a few seconds. /gustav > well I am hoping that bring down blocks of records on demand means they dont > have to sit and wait for 15 mins. >> But isn't the user selecting "pages"? How is that different from, say, >> selecting a tab or button for the letter "Q"? From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 11:54:10 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:54:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40B76EB2.7070500@shaw.ca> Pacioli's treatise (The monk that started the whole mess) on accounting was written in Latin. So the abbreviations. cr credo, credere, credidi, creditus V trust, entrust; commit/consign; believe, trust in, rely on, confide; suppose; lend (money) to, make loans/give credit; believe/think/accept as true/be sure; dr debeo, debere, debui, debitus owe; be indebted/responsible for/obliged/bound/destined; ought, must, should Arthur Fuller wrote: >>>There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. >>> >>> > >Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- >an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > >And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, >rather than debited? > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:20 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > >I'm bringing it in from a text file. There is nothing to indicate dr or >cr. Jim Hale >-----Original Message----- >From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:04 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > >Is there no DR/CR or debit/credit indicator in the records, or are you >actually bringing it in from an image or a text file? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:41 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Help on Complicated record count query > > >Using Monarch I have successfully parsed a bank statement file (6620 >records) into Access. Unfortunately deposits and withdrawals are both >positive numbers. The problem I am having is determining where >withdrawals begin so that I can flip the sign. Below are the relevant >fields. SELECT tblBankStmt.fldDate, tblBankStmt.fldAmt, >tblBankStmt.fldCustref, tblBankStmt.fldDescr FROM tblBankStmt; > >fldate is actually a text field with "04/01" - "04/30". Deposits are >listed first with 4/1-4/30 in order. The withdrawals start over with >4/1. There is nothing in the table to distinguish where withdrawal >records start except that the date changes from 4/30 on the last deposit >item back to 4/1 on the first withdrawal item. So I need an SQL criteria >(or maybe an iif stmt on the amt field) that counts the number of >deposit records and flips the sign on every record after that. I do not >khow to do this so any help would appreciated. TIA > >Jim Hale > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 11:44:53 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:44:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? References: <000a01c444b0$4555a4b0$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <40B76C85.4070303@shaw.ca> Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 11:47:37 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:47:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets References: <001b01c444c9$7368f4b0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <40B76D29.6070807@shaw.ca> Why not consider the use of a VB DataGrid Control on the form Maybe a third party one. Martin Reid wrote: >Havnt got to that part yet (<: > >Martin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charlotte Foust" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:25 PM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > > > > >>It it has to be updatable, you are now officially in the "unbound" camp. >>Unfortunately, Access doesn't provide for an unbound continuous form. >>How were you planning on presenting these "pages"? >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] >>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:56 AM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >> >> >>What I may have is 100,000 records which have to come down from the >>server in one hit. All of them. What I want to do at some point is to >>Page them down. First 100, Then Next 100 and so on. >> >>On the Access form I want page 1 of X with navigation to any page the >>user chooses. Of course they will need to navigate within each batch of >>records they get. >> >>Its much like an ASP application but using Access. I would like to >>handle the paging by Stored Procedure on SQL Server rather than ADO but >>will give ADO a try. What I am trying to avoid is bringing all the >>records down the wire. >> >>The the user can change the order by of the 100000 records and we start >>the process all over again. So the form opens they get 100 records >>ordered by "A", click next page they get the Next 100 ordered by "A". >> >>They then change the order by to "B" they get the first page again >>ordered by "B" and so on and so on. >> >>No filtering is allowed. THEY HAVE TO HAVE ALL 100000 records available. >> >> >>So we would have standard navigation buttons Next Revord Previous, First >>Last but we would also have >> >>Page 1 of X Then a navigation bar by page size even bringing 1000 or >>2000 down would be ok. >> >>Any of this make sense?? >> >>OH and it all has to be fully updatable (<: >> >>Martin >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "MartyConnelly" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:45 PM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >> >> >> >> >>>I am just wondering where the problem lies, with Access 2000 or was it >>> >>> >>>XP , you can set the Forms recordset to an ado recordset albeit read >>>only. There are workarounds to handle disconnected and editable >>>recordsets. I must be looking at something the wrong way. >>> >>>Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection >>>Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >>> >>>Private Sub Command0_Click() >>> cnn.ConnectionString = "Provider=sqloledb;" & _ >>> "Data Source=(local);" & _ >>> "Initial Catalog=pubs;" & _ >>> "User ID=sa;" & _ >>> "Password=;" >>> cnn.Open >>> rst.Source = "Select * from authors" >>> rst.CursorLocation = adUseClient >>> rst.Open , cnn >>> Set Me.Recordset = rst >>>End Sub >>> >>> >>>paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Martin, >>>>Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something >>>>similar >>>> >>>> >>is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary >>table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access >>query have something like >> >> >>>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And >>>> >>>> >>tblTempCounterField<=100 >> >> >>>>then change the query to >>>>SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And >>>> >>>> >>tblTempCounterField<=200 >> >> >>>>etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul >>>>Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know >>>> >>>> >>>>how to do it >>>> >>>> >>for future reference. >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >>>>>From : "Martin Reid" >>>>To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>>Copy to : >>>>Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>>>I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in >>>>Access. >>>> >>>>Martin >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites >>>>> >>>>>You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset >>>>>' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) >>>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = >>>>>iPageSize ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size >>>>>iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount >>>>>' Move to the selected page number >>>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>>> >>>>>Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>http://www.asp101.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Search on "paging" as there several methods available including >>>>>placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as >>>>>to best method for performance >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sub AdoPaging() >>>>>'stolen from >>>>>http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp >>>>>' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS >>>>>Dim CONN_STRING As String >>>>>Dim CONN_USER As String >>>>>Dim CONN_PASS As String >>>>> >>>>>CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ >>>>>"Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>>>Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & >>>>>"Password=" >>>>> >>>>>' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set >>>>>' Comment out to use Access >>>>>'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & >>>>>"Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network >>>>>Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" >>>>>'CONN_PASS = "password" >>>>>' END USER CONSTANTS >>>>> >>>>>' Declare our vars >>>>>Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are >>>>>Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back >>>>>Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show >>>>>Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate >>>>>passing them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute >>>>>Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just >>>>>iPageSize records >>>>>Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var >>>>>Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection >>>>>Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset >>>>> >>>>>' Get parameters >>>>>' set number of records per page >>>>> >>>>>iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this >>>>> >>>>>' Set page to show or default to 1 >>>>> >>>>>iPageCurrent = 2 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>' If you're doing this script with a search or something >>>>>' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just >>>>>' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. ' What >>>>>you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = "SELECT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>* FROM sample ORDER BY id;" >>>>> >>>>>strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" >>>>>'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" >>>>> >>>>>' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = >>>>>"SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Debug.Print strSQL >>>>> >>>>>' Now we finally get to the DB work... >>>>>' Create and open our connection >>>>>Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection 'objPagingConn.Open >>>>>CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING >>>>>' Create recordset and set the page size >>>>>Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset >>>>>objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize >>>>> >>>>>' You can change other settings as with any RS >>>>>'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = >>>>>iPageSize >>>>> >>>>>' Open RS >>>>>objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, >>>>>adLockReadOnly, adCmdText >>>>> >>>>>' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = >>>>>objPagingRS.PageCount >>>>> >>>>>' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, >>>>>' give them the closest match (1 or max) >>>>>If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If >>>>>iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 >>>>> >>>>>' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are >>>>>returned! If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" >>>>>Else >>>>>' Move to the selected page >>>>>objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent >>>>> >>>>>' Start output with a page x of n line >>>>> >>>>>' Show field names in the top row >>>>>Dim strtitles As String >>>>>strtitles = "" >>>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>>>strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " Next 'I >>>>>Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf >>>>> >>>>>' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown >>>>>= 0 Dim strFields As String >>>>>strFields = "" >>>>>Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF >>>>> >>>>>For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 >>>>> >>>>>strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," >>>>> >>>>>Next 'I >>>>>Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf >>>>>'clear strfields shown >>>>>strFields = "" >>>>> >>>>>' Increment the number of records we've shown >>>>>iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 >>>>>' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext >>>>>Loop >>>>> >>>>>' All done - close table >>>>> >>>>>End If >>>>> >>>>>' Close DB objects and free variables >>>>>objPagingRS.Close >>>>>Set objPagingRS = Nothing >>>>>objPagingConn.Close >>>>>Set objPagingConn = Nothing >>>>> >>>>>End Sub >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Martin Reid wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I >>>>>>want >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned >>>>>>from >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>SQL >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all >>>>>>at >>>>>> >>>>>> >>the >> >> >>>>>>start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc >>>>>>then >>>>>> >>>>>> >>move >> >> >>>>>>freely between pages. >>>>>> >>>>>>Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one >>>>>>time. >>>>>> >>>>>>I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be >>>>>>available? >>>>>> >>>>>>MArtin >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Marty Connelly >>>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>>Canada >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>Marty Connelly >>>Victoria, B.C. >>>Canada >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 12:00:47 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:00:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Training Tax Credit in US References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <40B7703F.6080906@shaw.ca> Thought this might be of intrest to US developers Congress just passed a 50% tax rebate for up to $4,000 for technology training per year. This is Canadian News site so you will have to track down the details on TRAIN Act. http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=idgml-71c51d2d-8326-4ae3-b011-3e108ddd4558&Portal=E-Government -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Fri May 28 12:03:42 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:03:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF08E2A93F@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> I knew I was in for a rough time when the person I had hired to keep the books at the company where I worked balked at my instruction to post a bank deposit as a debit to the cash account. "Deposits are ALWAYS credits!" was her response. I insisted, and eventually prevailed despite her resistance, but she didn't last long. I still chuckle to myself whenever I remember that scene! Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Debits and Credits I know the hardest thing to explain to non-accountants is the simple rule that debits are on the left and credits are on the right! When I was a banker, it was even more confusing because to a bank, credits (loans) are assets and debits (deposits) are liabilities, just the opposite of to the customer. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael R Mattys [mailto:michael.mattys at adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Debits and Credits ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > >> There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > > Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me > -- an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > > And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > rather than debited? > > Arthur Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir meaning left and right, respectively. They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using the double-entry system. Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 12:24:04 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:24:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? In-Reply-To: <6429804.1085763925781.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c444d8$9380c110$de1811d8@danwaters> Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 12:28:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:28:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Message-ID: Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the database. What is it you want to do? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >find mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 12:33:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:33:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock> <01b201c444cf$9344dfa0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <40B777F7.1020102@shaw.ca> The Latin for right and left is dexter and sinster. Lots of old Roman marching songs start off "Sinster dexter, sinister dexter, sinister dexter...." ;) Michael R Mattys wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arthur Fuller" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM >Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > > > > >>>>There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. >>>> >>>> >>Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- >>an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. >> >>And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, >>rather than debited? >> >>Arthur >> >> > >Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir >meaning left and right, respectively. > >They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of >making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. >If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using >the double-entry system. > >Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity >dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr > >If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, >it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. > > >---- > >Michael R. Mattys >Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint >http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 12:59:08 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:59:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? References: <000001c444d8$9380c110$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <40B77DEC.2060305@shaw.ca> Nope you can call or bind most com objects. By either early binding by setting a reference and dimensioning and setting the object or by late binding using getobject createobject. The problem being the references may not be correct for another.machine using early binding but you can use intellisense to look up methods in design mode. However you can more easily trap for errors using late binding but slower intial execution. It is a swings and merrygoaround difference. Your choice. CodeDb Function Example, assume say you have an addin code library in an MDE file and call one of its functions. The CodeDB statement determines the name of the database mde or mbd file where the running code resides. If you don't do this it will assume that the table resides in the calling mdb. The following example uses the CodeDb function to return a Database object that refers to a library database. The library database contains both a table named Errors and the code that is currently running. After the CodeDb function determines this information, the GetErrorString function opens a table-type recordset based on the Errors table. It then extracts an error message from a field named ErrorData based on the Integer value passed to the function. Function GetErrorString(ByVal intError As Integer) As String Dim dbs As Database, rst As RecordSet ' Variable refers to database where code is running. Set dbs = CodeDb ' Create table-type Recordset object. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordSet("Errors", dbOpenTable) ' Set index to primary key (ErrorID field). rst.Index = "PrimaryKey" ' Find error number passed to GetErrorString function. rst.Seek "=", intError ' Return associated error message. GetErrorString = rst.Fields!ErrorData.Value rst.Close End Function Dan Waters wrote: >Marty, > >I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For >example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. > >It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). > >Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between >runtime Access and the full version? > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's > >Dan Waters wrote: > > > >>Hello to All! >> >> >> >>I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >>Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >>this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >>mention of this limitation. >> >> >> >>I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System >> >> >Objects > > >>(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. >> >> >> >>TIA, >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 13:14:07 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? In-Reply-To: <27483081.1085765592181.JavaMail.root@sniper5.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c444df$915f8a90$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello Charlotte, I know the standard limitations of a runtime version - these are well described on the MSDN website. My applications handle these well. My goal is to offer the use of runtime versions to clients where they don't want to install full versions of Access. Apparently I read something wrong because when I tested using the /runtime switch, API's, FSO, and spellchecking all worked fine. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the database. What is it you want to do? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >find mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri May 28 13:20:33 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:20:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? In-Reply-To: <7107104.1085768026819.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000101c444e0$77cd68d0$de1811d8@danwaters> Thanks Marty! I'll save this one. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Nope you can call or bind most com objects. By either early binding by setting a reference and dimensioning and setting the object or by late binding using getobject createobject. The problem being the references may not be correct for another.machine using early binding but you can use intellisense to look up methods in design mode. However you can more easily trap for errors using late binding but slower intial execution. It is a swings and merrygoaround difference. Your choice. CodeDb Function Example, assume say you have an addin code library in an MDE file and call one of its functions. The CodeDB statement determines the name of the database mde or mbd file where the running code resides. If you don't do this it will assume that the table resides in the calling mdb. The following example uses the CodeDb function to return a Database object that refers to a library database. The library database contains both a table named Errors and the code that is currently running. After the CodeDb function determines this information, the GetErrorString function opens a table-type recordset based on the Errors table. It then extracts an error message from a field named ErrorData based on the Integer value passed to the function. Function GetErrorString(ByVal intError As Integer) As String Dim dbs As Database, rst As RecordSet ' Variable refers to database where code is running. Set dbs = CodeDb ' Create table-type Recordset object. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordSet("Errors", dbOpenTable) ' Set index to primary key (ErrorID field). rst.Index = "PrimaryKey" ' Find error number passed to GetErrorString function. rst.Seek "=", intError ' Return associated error message. GetErrorString = rst.Fields!ErrorData.Value rst.Close End Function Dan Waters wrote: >Marty, > >I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For >example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. > >It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). > >Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between >runtime Access and the full version? > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's > >Dan Waters wrote: > > > >>Hello to All! >> >> >> >>I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >>Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. Is >>this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't find >>mention of this limitation. >> >> >> >>I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System >> >> >Objects > > >>(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. >> >> >> >>TIA, >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri May 28 13:23:09 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:23:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits References: <020401c444c9$efb6b3e0$6601a8c0@rock><01b201c444cf$9344dfa0$6401a8c0@default> <40B777F7.1020102@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <020301c444e0$d4fc3cc0$6401a8c0@default> Hi Marty, Thank you. No wonder I was always getting whipped with the cat-o'-nine tails! I could never get that right ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > The Latin for right and left is dexter and sinster. > Lots of old Roman marching songs start off > "Sinster dexter, sinister dexter, sinister dexter...." ;) > > > Michael R Mattys wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Arthur Fuller" > >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:39 AM > >Subject: [AccessD] Debits and Credits > > > > > > > > > >>>>There is nothing to indicate dr or cr. > >>>> > >>>> > >>Does anyone happen to know the origin of "dr"? It's always puzzled me -- > >>an unlikely abbreviation of "debit". Not important, just wondering. > >> > >>And incidentally, why are terrorists always credited with their acts, > >>rather than debited? > >> > >>Arthur > >> > >> > > > >Debit and Credit come from Latin words Debitir and Creditir > >meaning left and right, respectively. > > > >They do not mean increase or decrease, rather it is the act of > >making an accounting entry on the left side or the right side. > >If they were reversed, it wouldn't matter to an accountant using > >the double-entry system. > > > >Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity > >dr|cr = dr|cr + dr|cr > > > >If the left side of an account is greater than the right side, > >it has a debit balance. If the right is greater, it is a credit balance. > > > > > >---- > > > >Michael R. Mattys > >Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint > >http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri May 28 13:53:49 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:53:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? References: <000001c444df$915f8a90$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <40B78ABD.7050400@shaw.ca> Well with this situation I would be inclined to use late binding, you cannot reset missing or mangled references with an MDE. as you cannot recompile or change the source p-code cause it ain't there anymore. You are also going to have to handle missing objects as you will probably hit machines missing a Word install or a Net Admin that has turned off vb scripting or access to WSH for security reasons, so your FSO calls will fail. You might have to rewrite your FSO methods to use general API calls. Dan Waters wrote: >Hello Charlotte, > >I know the standard limitations of a runtime version - these are well >described on the MSDN website. My applications handle these well. > >My goal is to offer the use of runtime versions to clients where they don't >want to install full versions of Access. > >Apparently I read something wrong because when I tested using the /runtime >switch, API's, FSO, and spellchecking all worked fine. > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:29 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The >main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to >specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the >property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the >database. What is it you want to do? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > > >Marty, > >I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For >example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. > >It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). > >Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between >runtime Access and the full version? > >Thanks, >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? > >Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin >MDE's > >Dan Waters wrote: > > > >>Hello to All! >> >> >> >>I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >>Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >> >> > > > >>Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >>find mention of this limitation. >> >> >> >>I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System >> >> >Objects > > >>(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. >> >> >> >>TIA, >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 14:58:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:58:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Message-ID: The /runtime switch doesn't completely emulate the runtime environment. You need to start the app from a runtime installation in order to see the real behavior. I learned that lesson a long time ago. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Hello Charlotte, I know the standard limitations of a runtime version - these are well described on the MSDN website. My applications handle these well. My goal is to offer the use of runtime versions to clients where they don't want to install full versions of Access. Apparently I read something wrong because when I tested using the /runtime switch, API's, FSO, and spellchecking all worked fine. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Not true. Your references are part of the database, not of Access. The main differences are in some odd places, like the fact the you have to specifically set toolbars in code because runtime doesn't recognize the property setting and unhandled errors simply dump you out of the database. What is it you want to do? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Marty, I thought I read that I could only use code that is part of Access. For example, no automation of Word, Excel, or other applications. It wasn't as specific as CurrentDB, or CodeDB (what is CodeDB?). Do you know where I could find a useful list of the differences between runtime Access and the full version? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Runtime Limitations? Are you referring to the proper use of CurrentDB and CodeDB in addin MDE's Dan Waters wrote: >Hello to All! > > > >I seem to remember reading somewhere that when you are using an Access >Runtime installation, you cannot refer to other object models in code. >Is this correct? I read a couple of articles in MSDN, but couldn't >find mention of this limitation. > > > >I tested using the /runtime switch. My code uses API's, File System Objects >(FSO), and spellchecking (Word), and all worked fine. > > > >TIA, > >Dan Waters > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 28 15:49:21 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:49:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: <21945691.1085650285653.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: Hi Paul: To step through a group of records so many at a time try something like Public Function GetRecords(optional intCount as Integer = 0, _ optional lngPos as long = 0, _ optional intDirection as integer = 1) as ADOB.Recordset Static lngPosition as long Static intNumberofRecords as integer Dim strSQL as String 'You can also just close the caller recordset as the result is a clone and 'closing one closes the other. If Not GetRecords Is Nothing Then GetRecords.Close: Set GetRecords = Nothing if intCount <> 0 then intNumberofRecords = intCount if lngPos <> 0 then lngPosition = lngPos ' intDirection = 1 or intDirection -1 intDirection = intDirection Mod 2 if intDirection = 0 then intDirection = 1 lngPosition + (lngPosition * intDirection) if lngPosition < 0 then lngPostion = 1 strSQL = "SELECT top " & str(intNumberofRecords) & _ " * FROM MyTable where ID >= " & str(lngPosition) Set GetRecords = New ADODB.Recordset With GetRecords .ActiveConnection = MyActiveConnection .Source = strSQL .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open , , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With End Function Then to call the function like: intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve = 25 'Records for display lngWheretoStartIntheFile = 5000 'Start at this position intReadDirection = 1 'Forward 'To initialize set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords(intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve,_ lngWheretoStartIntheFile,_ intReadDirection).Clone 'To continue set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords().Clone ... With rsMyRecordset If .BOF = False Or .EOF = False Then .MoveLast:.MoveFirst End With ... My apologies but I just wrote this code from memory as there is limited error checking, testing functionality or typos, a complete set of defined variables. The concept is right but I could not find my original code...but it should be close. In the code it assumes your primary key is name 'ID'. It only brings back as many records as you request and starts at any position in the table(s) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Martin, Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 then change the query to SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including placing > in an array > There are probably articles floating around as to best method for > performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ > "User Id=admin;" & "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ > ' & "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ > ' & "Network Library=dbmssocn;" > 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate > passing them > Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. > 'strSQL = "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING > ' Create recordset and set the page size > Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient > objPagingRS.CacheSize = iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount > If iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then > Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record > iRecordsShown = 0 > Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! > objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at the > >start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc then move > >freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 17:20:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:20:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Hi Paul: To step through a group of records so many at a time try something like Public Function GetRecords(optional intCount as Integer = 0, _ optional lngPos as long = 0, _ optional intDirection as integer = 1) as ADOB.Recordset Static lngPosition as long Static intNumberofRecords as integer Dim strSQL as String 'You can also just close the caller recordset as the result is a clone and 'closing one closes the other. If Not GetRecords Is Nothing Then GetRecords.Close: Set GetRecords = Nothing if intCount <> 0 then intNumberofRecords = intCount if lngPos <> 0 then lngPosition = lngPos ' intDirection = 1 or intDirection -1 intDirection = intDirection Mod 2 if intDirection = 0 then intDirection = 1 lngPosition + (lngPosition * intDirection) if lngPosition < 0 then lngPostion = 1 strSQL = "SELECT top " & str(intNumberofRecords) & _ " * FROM MyTable where ID >= " & str(lngPosition) Set GetRecords = New ADODB.Recordset With GetRecords .ActiveConnection = MyActiveConnection .Source = strSQL .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open , , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With End Function Then to call the function like: intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve = 25 'Records for display lngWheretoStartIntheFile = 5000 'Start at this position intReadDirection = 1 'Forward 'To initialize set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords(intNumberofRecordstoRetrieve,_ lngWheretoStartIntheFile,_ intReadDirection).Clone 'To continue set rsMyRecordset = GetRecords().Clone ... With rsMyRecordset If .BOF = False Or .EOF = False Then .MoveLast:.MoveFirst End With ... My apologies but I just wrote this code from memory as there is limited error checking, testing functionality or typos, a complete set of defined variables. The concept is right but I could not find my original code...but it should be close. In the code it assumes your primary key is name 'ID'. It only brings back as many records as you request and starts at any position in the table(s) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Martin, Stumped on this one the only way I can think of doing something similar is create a temporary table, write the result set into the temporary table and have an additional counter field 1 to ??? then with an access query have something like SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=1 And tblTempCounterField<=100 then change the query to SELECT * FROM tblTemp WHERE tblTempCounterField>=101 And tblTempCounterField<=200 etc etc as the user presses the next or previous page button. Paul Hartland PS if you come across a better solution I would like to know how to do it for future reference. Message date : May 26 2004, 07:33 PM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets I know. I want to to the same thing with data from SQL Server in Access. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets > Paging is quite commonly done on ASP websites > > You just set or use three properties of the ADO recordset > ' Create recordset and set the page size (no of records per page) Set > objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size > iPageCount = objPagingRS.PageCount > ' Move to the selected page number > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > Here is some quickly cobbled sample code stolen from http://www.asp101.com > > Search on "paging" as there several methods available including > placing in an array There are probably articles floating around as to > best method for performance > > > Sub AdoPaging() > 'stolen from > http://www.asp101.com/samples/viewasp.asp?file=db%5Fpaging%2Easp > ' BEGIN USER CONSTANTS > Dim CONN_STRING As String > Dim CONN_USER As String > Dim CONN_PASS As String > > CONN_STRING = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;" & _ > "Data Source=C:\Program Files\Microsoft > Office\Office\Samples\Northwind.mdb;" & _ "User Id=admin;" & > "Password=" > > ' Our SQL code - overriding values we just set > ' Comment out to use Access > 'CONN_STRING = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=10.2.1.214;" _ ' & > "Initial Catalog=samples;Connect Timeout=15;" _ ' & "Network > Library=dbmssocn;" 'CONN_USER = "samples" > 'CONN_PASS = "password" > ' END USER CONSTANTS > > ' Declare our vars > Dim iPageSize As Long 'How big our pages are > Dim iPageCount As Long 'The number of pages we get back > Dim iPageCurrent As Long 'The page we want to show > Dim strOrderBy As String 'A fake parameter used to illustrate passing > them Dim strSQL As String 'SQL command to execute > Dim iRecordsShown As Long 'Loop controller for displaying just > iPageSize records > Dim I As Long 'Standard looping var > Dim objPagingConn As ADODB.Connection > Dim objPagingRS As ADODB.Recordset > > ' Get parameters > ' set number of records per page > > iPageSize = 10 ' You could easily allow users to change this > > ' Set page to show or default to 1 > > iPageCurrent = 2 > > > ' If you're doing this script with a search or something > ' you'll need to pass the sql from page to page. I'm just > ' paging through the entire table so I just hard coded it. > ' What you show is irrelevant to the point of the sample. 'strSQL = > "SELECT * FROM sample ORDER BY id;" > > strOrderBy = "'Customer ID'" > 'strOrderBy = "last_name,first_name,sales" > > ' Build our SQL String using the parameters we just got. strSQL = > "SELECT * FROM customers ORDER BY " & strOrderBy & ";" > > > Debug.Print strSQL > > ' Now we finally get to the DB work... > ' Create and open our connection > Set objPagingConn = New ADODB.Connection > 'objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING, CONN_USER, CONN_PASS > objPagingConn.Open CONN_STRING ' Create recordset and set the page > size Set objPagingRS = New ADODB.Recordset > objPagingRS.PageSize = iPageSize > > ' You can change other settings as with any RS > 'objPagingRS.CursorLocation = adUseClient objPagingRS.CacheSize = > iPageSize > > ' Open RS > objPagingRS.Open strSQL, objPagingConn, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly, > adCmdText > > ' Get the count of the pages using the given page size iPageCount = > objPagingRS.PageCount > > ' If the request page falls outside the acceptable range, > ' give them the closest match (1 or max) > If iPageCurrent > iPageCount Then iPageCurrent = iPageCount If > iPageCurrent < 1 Then iPageCurrent = 1 > > ' Check page count to prevent bombing when zero results are returned! > If iPageCount = 0 Then Debug.Print "No records found!" > Else > ' Move to the selected page > objPagingRS.AbsolutePage = iPageCurrent > > ' Start output with a page x of n line > > ' Show field names in the top row > Dim strtitles As String > strtitles = "" > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > strtitles = strtitles & objPagingRS.Fields(I).Name & " " > Next 'I > Debug.Print strtitles & vbCrLf > > ' Loop through our records and ouput 1 row per record iRecordsShown = > 0 Dim strFields As String > strFields = "" > Do While iRecordsShown < iPageSize And Not objPagingRS.EOF > > For I = 0 To objPagingRS.Fields.Count - 1 > > strFields = strFields & objPagingRS.Fields(I) & "," > > Next 'I > Debug.Print strFields & vbCrLf > 'clear strfields shown > strFields = "" > > ' Increment the number of records we've shown > iRecordsShown = iRecordsShown + 1 > ' Can't forget to move to the next record! objPagingRS.MoveNext > Loop > > ' All done - close table > > End If > > ' Close DB objects and free variables > objPagingRS.Close > Set objPagingRS = Nothing > objPagingConn.Close > Set objPagingConn = Nothing > > End Sub > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Anyone every done any work on paging large recordsets in Access. I > >want to > >look at the possibility of breaking up massive recordsets returned > >from SQL > >Server in page sets of say 100 records. Rather than pull them all at > >the start I want the user to be able to select Page 1, Page etc etc > >then move freely between pages. > > > >Only 100 records (or less) would be taken of the server at one time. > > > >I cannot use filters at the client end. All records MUST be > >available? > > > >MArtin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 28 17:57:52 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:57:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. No I have not tested the previous piece of code but I have a number of similar pieces of code, in various programs out there. Below is an exact piece just cut and pasted in just for your edification: The Function: Public Function FillFileAgencyData(lngEmployeeNumber As Long) As ADODB.Recordset Dim objCmd As ADODB.Command On Error GoTo Err_FillFileAgencyData Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = gstrConnection .CommandText = "REFileAgency" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@EmployeeNumber", adInteger, adParamInput, , lngEmployeeNumber) End With Set FillFileAgencyData = New ADODB.Recordset With FillFileAgencyData .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open objCmd, , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With Exit_FillFileAgencyData: On Error Resume Next Set objCmd = Nothing Exit Function Err_FillFileAgencyData: ShowErrMsg "Module: DataConnection, Function: FillFileAgencyData" Resume Exit_FillFileAgencyData End Function The caller: ... Dim rsFileAgency As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsFileAgency = FillFileAgencyData(typFileAgency.EmployeeNumber).Clone ... ...and it works like a hot D... So even an old master like yourself can learn something. Jim From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri May 28 19:27:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:27:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Message-ID: Well, I never have much occasion to use the Clone method, so what can you expect? I claim exemption from blushing, since you didn't show a declaration for the recordset object rsMyRecordset!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Hi Charlotte: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. No I have not tested the previous piece of code but I have a number of similar pieces of code, in various programs out there. Below is an exact piece just cut and pasted in just for your edification: The Function: Public Function FillFileAgencyData(lngEmployeeNumber As Long) As ADODB.Recordset Dim objCmd As ADODB.Command On Error GoTo Err_FillFileAgencyData Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = gstrConnection .CommandText = "REFileAgency" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@EmployeeNumber", adInteger, adParamInput, , lngEmployeeNumber) End With Set FillFileAgencyData = New ADODB.Recordset With FillFileAgencyData .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open objCmd, , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With Exit_FillFileAgencyData: On Error Resume Next Set objCmd = Nothing Exit Function Err_FillFileAgencyData: ShowErrMsg "Module: DataConnection, Function: FillFileAgencyData" Resume Exit_FillFileAgencyData End Function The caller: ... Dim rsFileAgency As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsFileAgency = FillFileAgencyData(typFileAgency.EmployeeNumber).Clone ... ...and it works like a hot D... So even an old master like yourself can learn something. Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri May 28 19:46:40 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:46:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte... I did after all state that it was not complete, just correct in concept... so there :-p :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 5:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Well, I never have much occasion to use the Clone method, so what can you expect? I claim exemption from blushing, since you didn't show a declaration for the recordset object rsMyRecordset!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] Paging Recordsets Hi Charlotte: Have you tested this, Jim? I thought the .Clone method was for DAO recordsets. You can't just pass an ADO recordset to a DAO recordset unless they've changed something dramatically in the latest MDAC. No I have not tested the previous piece of code but I have a number of similar pieces of code, in various programs out there. Below is an exact piece just cut and pasted in just for your edification: The Function: Public Function FillFileAgencyData(lngEmployeeNumber As Long) As ADODB.Recordset Dim objCmd As ADODB.Command On Error GoTo Err_FillFileAgencyData Set objCmd = New ADODB.Command With objCmd .ActiveConnection = gstrConnection .CommandText = "REFileAgency" .CommandType = adCmdStoredProc .Parameters.Append .CreateParameter("@EmployeeNumber", adInteger, adParamInput, , lngEmployeeNumber) End With Set FillFileAgencyData = New ADODB.Recordset With FillFileAgencyData .CursorLocation = adUseClient .Open objCmd, , adOpenDynamic, adLockOptimistic End With Exit_FillFileAgencyData: On Error Resume Next Set objCmd = Nothing Exit Function Err_FillFileAgencyData: ShowErrMsg "Module: DataConnection, Function: FillFileAgencyData" Resume Exit_FillFileAgencyData End Function The caller: ... Dim rsFileAgency As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsFileAgency = FillFileAgencyData(typFileAgency.EmployeeNumber).Clone ... ...and it works like a hot D... So even an old master like yourself can learn something. Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 29 06:39:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:39:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8211812555.20040529133953@cactus.dk> Hi Bob Here's another (old) note on Access/Jet history and background: http://www.avdf.com/nov96/acc_jet.html /gustav > There was an interesting article in this month's issue of Microsoft Insider > about the history of Access - personal accounts from the last ten years by > some of the most famous (infamous ? ) developers, including Ken Getz. > http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/10years/heroes.asp > Regards, > Bob Gajewski From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 29 07:59:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:59:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18716571989.20040529145912@cactus.dk> Hi Bob et all The link has changed to: http://www.microsoft.com/Office/previous/access/10years/heroes.asp /gustav > There was an interesting article in this month's issue of Microsoft Insider > about the history of Access - personal accounts from the last ten years by > some of the most famous (infamous ? ) developers, including Ken Getz. > http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/10years/heroes.asp > Regards, > Bob Gajewski From gustav at cactus.dk Sat May 29 13:04:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 20:04:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux In-Reply-To: <12911870959.20040517105424@cactus.dk> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk><00a601c43b67$57de1920$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <1419639150.20040516192228@cactus.dk> <000801c43b75$d4ab6030$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <12911870959.20040517105424@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <5634860536.20040529200401@cactus.dk> Hi William Here's a tiny but extremely efficient tool for you: http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/regmon.shtml It'll show all or selected activity reading/writing the registry. Try loading, say, Word. At first the activity might elevate your paranoia to a new and dangerous level, but by watching the log - noticing the number of Succeeds - should bring you full relief. /gustav > Hi William > Hmmm, to me Access - no matter what version - certainly isn't that > flaky. > Remember, here we are changing a value only - not adding or deleting a > key. If the API call is send, Windows handles it; if it fails during a > crash, Windows does nothing. > /gustav >> ...call it paranoia but its my experience ...Access is not an app I will >> call the registry from if there is another way. >>> You must be in your paranoid corner this afternoon. >>> >>> The registry is supposed to be written to, Windows and most apps do it >>> every second, and you have no other way to do it than through well >>> documented API calls. If something happens no one can or will blame >>> your app but Windows itself or some hardware failure. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>> > ...yikes ...certainly not disputing your facts gustav but I avoid changing >>> > the registry programmatically at almost any cost ...no more certain way to >>> > destroy a Windows computer than corrupting the registry ...and doing so >>> > programmatically from Access without backing it up first is, imnsho, an >>> > exercise in Russian Roulette ...not my favorite game :( From glen_mcwilliams at msn.com Sun May 30 08:29:59 2004 From: glen_mcwilliams at msn.com (Glen McWilliams) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 06:29:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Message-ID: Count me in >From: "Joe Hecht" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:26:26 -0700 > >I would consider running an Access-D conference in the Los Angeles, >California > > > >1. It would be August or later because of my schedule. > >2. If I can get the room I want, we will meet a few blocks from the 405 >Freeway and Santa Monica Blvd > >3. Who would be attending? > >4. Who would like to present? > >5. What Saturday starting in August works for you? > >6. Who has a projector we can use? > > > > > >JOE HECHT > >LOS ANGELES CA > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 30 08:28:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:28:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files Message-ID: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Hi all Some strip zip files from e-mails to avoid vira and spyware, thus cab files can be a valid alternative for attaching compressed files. You can use a MS command line util for this (cabarc.exe or makecab.exe) or a freeware tool like CabPack 1.4, but did you know that Internet Explorer comes with a GUI wizard-type wrapper for CabArc called IExpress? Just type iexpress at the Run entry in the Start menu. When finished, it offers to save your settings as a "sed" file so you easily can repeat a packing session. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun May 30 08:55:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:55:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files In-Reply-To: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000001c4464d$c3d37da0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> That is amazing. Your reputation as a guru is validated one more time! JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files Hi all Some strip zip files from e-mails to avoid vira and spyware, thus cab files can be a valid alternative for attaching compressed files. You can use a MS command line util for this (cabarc.exe or makecab.exe) or a freeware tool like CabPack 1.4, but did you know that Internet Explorer comes with a GUI wizard-type wrapper for CabArc called IExpress? Just type iexpress at the Run entry in the Start menu. When finished, it offers to save your settings as a "sed" file so you easily can repeat a packing session. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 30 09:36:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:36:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files In-Reply-To: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: Where do you get this stuff :-) Incredible Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files Hi all Some strip zip files from e-mails to avoid vira and spyware, thus cab files can be a valid alternative for attaching compressed files. You can use a MS command line util for this (cabarc.exe or makecab.exe) or a freeware tool like CabPack 1.4, but did you know that Internet Explorer comes with a GUI wizard-type wrapper for CabArc called IExpress? Just type iexpress at the Run entry in the Start menu. When finished, it offers to save your settings as a "sed" file so you easily can repeat a packing session. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun May 30 11:53:16 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:53:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question Message-ID: <00e001c44666$9a8b3780$6601a8c0@rock> I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for simplicity let's deal with one only): Customers -- obvious CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer Classifications -- a list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from Classifications). Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the ClassificationID? TIA for opinions. Arthur From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun May 30 13:14:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:14:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. References: Message-ID: <40BA2493.7050703@shaw.ca> While looking for something else came across these two methods for getting data from Quickbooks. One is an ODBC driver for QB reports and tables (careful they sell a read and and read write driver) ; other is ActiveX control that handles QBxml QODBC is a fully functional ODBC driver for reading and writing QuickBooks 2002, 2003 and 2004 accounting data files by using standard SQL queries. Handles reports and tables 30 day trial evaluation. 200 - 500 dollars pc and server. Can use from Excel or Access; from Flexquarters software http://qodbc.com/link2.mgi?source=google&search=api http://www.qodbc.com/qodbcfaq.htm AcctSync SDK ActiveX / VB Edition Version 2.0 Small, fast, easy-to-use, and fully self-contained ActiveX Controls built with ATL. No dependencies on any external libraries. Ideal for use with any COM container, from Visual Basic, to Internet Explorer, Office/VBA, etc. Uses QBxml. Can use from MS Office, Java Win CE, .Net and C++ @ $300 http://www.acctsync.com/acctsync/products/showprod.aspx?part=ACA2-A Might be usefuol with ActSync Messenger for 3d'party customer data connections through a website http://www.acctsync.com/acctsync/products/messenger/ Robert Gracie wrote: >Maryty, > Sounds Interesting, any examples? > > >Robert Gracie >www.servicexp.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:13 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. > > >Aren't you using the QBXML method to pass data back and forth?. It only >works for Canadian and US versions >You just use an XML DOM to parse and massage the data back and forth, >although their examples are so twentieth century using child elements >instead of XPATH methods which require a lot less code. >https://developer.intuit.com/Support/FAQs/?id=144#faq_qbsdk_q5 > >Robert Gracie wrote: > > > >>Rocky, >> Yep, I had the same opinion, and I think the 2 step process is what I >> >> >will > > >>end up with.. Your examples would be much appreciated, Thanks!!!! >> >>robert at servicexp.com >> >>Robert Gracie >>www.servicexp.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >>Beach Access Software >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:56 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >>Robert: >> >>I looked at the SDK and gave up right away. I don't do C. >> >>I used the two step approach of exporting from my app and then importing >>that file into QuickBooks through their Import Utility. >> >>Formatting the output file to their specification was about as convoluted a >>process as I've ever seen. But I got there eventually. >> >>There is a web site where they've got some examples and I can send you my >>code off line if you decide to do the two step. >> >>I wish they did have an easy way to push stuff straight into their system, >>but they don't. >> >>Rocky Smolin >>Beach Access Software >>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert Gracie" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:05 PM >>Subject: [AccessD] Quickbook Question. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Has anyone had any success communicating directly with QBPro? I purchased >>>the CoreObjX20.dll but it has proven to be fairly useless, very difficult >>> >>> >>> >>> >>to >> >> >> >> >>>even get the .dll set up and registered... >>> >>>Any idea's or help would be great! >>> >>>Thanks!! >>>Robert Gracie >>>www.servicexp.com >>> >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 30 15:06:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:06:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] How to create cab files In-Reply-To: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> References: <13523319341.20040530152801@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <5047248419.20040530220650@cactus.dk> Hi Jim and John Thanks! I was browsing to locate some code to create a cab file - then I stumbled over IExpress - it must be one of those strange MS secrets. Nevertheless, I managed too to cook a function to create a cab file using COM and no shelling in Windows 2000+. This, too, is a well preserved secret ... you have to use a strange typelib package, catsrvut.dll, which contains seven typelibs from which one is capable of compressing files to a cab file. Who would have believed that? Basically, with this type library it's three lines of code - it couldn't be simpler! However, a bit more is needed for making it as robust as needed for real life. Below is the function for creating a cab file with a single file; I'll leave it as an exercise to expand it with an array or collection of files to be stuffed in the cabinet (hint: look up the links in the comments) as this can be solved in many ways and is highly dependant on what you wish to use the function for. It uses late binding which I think is fine as the library is loaded very fast and, to be honest, I couldn't find out how to create early binding for this strange typelib - I have the feeling that it may not even be possible and as late binding works fine, I left it. Also note the parenthesis around the file name variables; they are absolutely needed for some reason. Have fun! /gustav Public Function CreateCab1( _ ByVal strCabFileName As String, _ ByVal strFileNameToCab As String, _ ByVal strFileNameInCab As String) _ As Boolean ' Create Cab(inet) file containing one compressed file ' by using the typelib in catsrvut.dll. ' OS must be Windows 2000+. ' 2004-05-30. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. ' ' Based on code from Torgeir Bakken and Alex Angelopoulos: ' http://groups.google.com/groups?q=catsrvut.dll&start=10&hl=da&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=%23mxGK5hiCHA.1328%40tkmsftngp09&rnum=11 ' http://groups.google.com/groups?q=catsrvut.dll&hl=da&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=Oqs%24H3ioCHA.1636%40TK2MSFTNGP09&rnum=2 ' http://x220.win2ktest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3318 ' Settings for properties of created Cab file. Const cbooMakeSignable As Boolean = False Const cbooExtraSpace As Boolean = False Const cbooUse10Format As Boolean = False ' Error code for wrong number of arguments. Const clngErrArguments As Long = 450 Dim objCab As Object Dim booSuccess As Boolean On Error Resume Next If Len(strCabFileName) = 0 Or Len(strFileNameToCab) = 0 Then ' Nothing to do. Exit Function End If ' Create Cabinet object from COMEXPLib.ComExport typelib. Set objCab = CreateObject("MakeCab.MakeCab.1") If Err.Number = 0 Then ' Object could be created. If Len(strFileNameInCab) = 0 Then ' No specific name for the file in the cabinet has been given. ' Use the name of the source file. ' Note: Path will be preserved. strFileNameInCab = strFileNameToCab End If With objCab ' Parameters for method CreateCab. ' Except for the first, all parameters _must_ be of type Boolean. ' For Windows 2000: ' CreateCab ByVal CabFileName, ByVal MakeSignable, ByVal ExtraSpace ' For Windows XP/2003: ' CreateCab ByVal CabFileName, ByVal MakeSignable, ByVal ExtraSpace, ByVal Use10Format ' ' Try call for Windows 2000. .CreateCab (strCabFileName), cbooMakeSignable, cbooExtraSpace If Err.Number = clngErrArguments Then ' Call for Windows 2000 failed. ' Reset error and try call for Windows XP. Err.Clear .CreateCab (strCabFileName), cbooMakeSignable, cbooExtraSpace, cbooUse10Format End If If Err.Number = 0 Then ' Cab file has been initialized. ' Add the file to the cabinet and close. .AddFile (strFileNameToCab), (strFileNameInCab) .CloseCab If Err.Number = 0 Then ' The file was added successfully to the cabinet. booSuccess = True End If End If End With End If Set objCab = Nothing ' Return True if success. CreateCab1 = booSuccess End Function From gustav at cactus.dk Sun May 30 15:22:21 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:22:21 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question In-Reply-To: <00e001c44666$9a8b3780$6601a8c0@rock> References: <00e001c44666$9a8b3780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <13648179618.20040530222221@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur It is not completely clear if you would like to store new classifications for the current customer only or for general use so they could be attached to other customers' CustomerDetails as well. Also: > When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are "drawing" items from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? /gustav > I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for > simplicity let's deal with one only): > Customers -- obvious > CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer > Classifications -- a list of generic classifications > CustomerClassifications -- a table containing only the Classifications > of interest to a given Customer > The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of > commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate > CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that allows > the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the > Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). > Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table > CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the > ClassificationID? > TIA for opinions. > Arthur From artful at rogers.com Sun May 30 17:28:32 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question In-Reply-To: <13648179618.20040530222221@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <013101c44695$70667210$6601a8c0@rock> Oops then I expressed it incorrectly. Each customer may design her own classifications -- the CustomerClassifications table. She has the opportunity to use existing classifications (thus the Classifications table). Any new CustomerClassification she adds is also added to the Classifications table (so some new user can take advantage of their existence. Assume the Classifications table contains rows "Admin", "Staff" and "Grunt". Our hypothetical user isn't satisfied with "Admin"; for various reasons she needs it to read "Administration", so she adds a new Classification (#123) and gets a new row in CustomerClassifications (with CustomerClassificationID 345). There. I think that's a better explanation. So the question is, should the CustomerDetails table contain column CustomerClassificationID or ClassificationID? Either way I get a unique reference. I'm just wondering which way is architecturally better. It may be worth pointing out that Customer 123's notion of Admin has nothing to do with Customer 345's notion of Admin; it's simply a device to let the data-entry people take advantage of existing Classifications. No report (that I can imagine) would ever require a list of all the Details of Classification "Admin". It's always Customer-relative -- except when we cruise Details by a column not mentioned so far -- and that has no influence on the question. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Database Design Question Hi Arthur It is not completely clear if you would like to store new classifications for the current customer only or for general use so they could be attached to other customers' CustomerDetails as well. Also: > When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are "drawing" items from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? /gustav > I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for > simplicity let's deal with one only): > Customers -- obvious > CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer Classifications -- a > list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table > containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer > The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of > commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate > CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that > allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the > Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from > Classifications). > Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table > CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the > ClassificationID? > TIA for opinions. > Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Sun May 30 19:08:51 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:08:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CECCB1@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <002001c446a3$77870f10$e086b3d1@delllaptop> Roz, I am trying and have requested responses be moved. Can an admin redirect e mail from one list to another based on title? JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION TO DBA-CONF --if not to OT-- This thread is way off topic for accessd, and still running some hours after I asked you nicely to move over. C'mon folks it's not like you have nowhere to go. Roz -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: 27 May 2004 07:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference Wear a battered fedora and use a 15' bullwhip to make your power points. Especially if doing computer archeology. Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: >Like "How I hate to give speechs in front of groups of professionals >that will argue every point I try and make". > >Just a suggestion >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:19 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >Hey, Susan, I never realized you were a shrinking violet! The >presentations were mostly fairly brief, nothing terribly formal ... >Well, JC got pretty complicated but we were all asleep by then ... > >A lot of them were of the "this is how I do this" variety. With all >your articles, surely you could find a topic. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:43 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Request of interest for conference > > >All I know is, this rule would keep me from attending -- IF I were >going to attend. Since I'm in KY -- I would not attend anyway. But, >this rule would shut the deal for me if I were considering it. > >You guys really might want to reconsider this one. It's your >conference, and you do what you like -- I guess. > >Susan H. > >Susan, I agree. > >Some will be happy to present and express their views infront of large >audiences. Other very fine programmers have difficulty formulating two >sentences, in a row. On the other hand, a designated oritor, could >present the material of a reserved designer, or a series of small >topics of discussion or for individuals unable to attend. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 31 02:44:34 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:44:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question In-Reply-To: <013101c44695$70667210$6601a8c0@rock> References: <013101c44695$70667210$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <1571797935.20040531094434@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur > Each customer may design her own classifications -- the > CustomerClassifications table. > She has the opportunity to use existing classifications (thus the > Classifications table). > Any new CustomerClassification she adds is also added to the > Classifications table (so some new user can take advantage of their > existence. So you will be running a denormalized schema? Or did I miss something? > Assume the Classifications table contains rows "Admin", "Staff" and > "Grunt". Our hypothetical user isn't satisfied with "Admin"; for various > reasons she needs it to read "Administration", so she adds a new > Classification (#123) and gets a new row in CustomerClassifications > (with CustomerClassificationID 345). There. I think that's a better > explanation. So the question is, should the CustomerDetails table > contain column CustomerClassificationID or ClassificationID? Either way > I get a unique reference. I'm just wondering which way is > architecturally better. As you will copy any entry in CustomerClassifications to Classifications as well, I would refer solely to Classifications. To have mixed references (some to Classifications, some to CustomerClassifications) would not be an easy task if you (as I expect) will enforce referential integrity too. /gustav > It may be worth pointing out that Customer 123's notion of Admin has > nothing to do with Customer 345's notion of Admin; it's simply a device > to let the data-entry people take advantage of existing Classifications. > No report (that I can imagine) would ever require a list of all the > Details of Classification "Admin". It's always Customer-relative -- > except when we cruise Details by a column not mentioned so far -- and > that has no influence on the question. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Database Design Question > Hi Arthur > It is not completely clear if you would like to store new > classifications for the current customer only or for general use so they > could be attached to other customers' CustomerDetails as well. > Also: >> When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see >> only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them >> from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from >> Classifications). > How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are "drawing" items > from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? > /gustav >> I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for >> simplicity let's deal with one only): >> Customers -- obvious >> CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer Classifications -- a >> list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table >> containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer >> The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of >> commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate >> CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that >> allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't already in the >> Classifications table. When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see >> only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. draw them >> from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the combo from >> Classifications). >> Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table >> CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the >> ClassificationID? >> TIA for opinions. >> Arthur From mkahelin at gorskibulk.com Mon May 31 09:08:42 2004 From: mkahelin at gorskibulk.com (Martin Kahelin) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:08:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A Database Design Question Message-ID: <0D2D1FEE52F53B46987A44B2EBF284D6191DDE@gbtmain.gorskibulk.local> We have a database (canned) in use with 'seed' entries for lists and combo-boxes etc. Nearly all of them allow new entries from the user. The annoying part is that the 'seed' entries are fixed and are showing up in lists where we don't use them, i.e.. the fixed/original entries cannot be deleted. How many of these 'classifications' do you expect - if there are only a few as you've indicated then I would put them in the same collection with a gracious attitude of 'not material'. One of the most annoying things for reporting is when the database design exceeds functionality, and believe me, the aforementioned canned database is a case study in bad-design and relationships dependant on other relationships. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:29 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A Database Design Question > > > Oops then I expressed it incorrectly. > > Each customer may design her own classifications -- the > CustomerClassifications table. She has the opportunity to use > existing classifications (thus the Classifications table). > Any new CustomerClassification she adds is also added to the > Classifications table (so some new user can take advantage of > their existence. > > Assume the Classifications table contains rows "Admin", > "Staff" and "Grunt". Our hypothetical user isn't satisfied > with "Admin"; for various reasons she needs it to read > "Administration", so she adds a new Classification (#123) and > gets a new row in CustomerClassifications (with > CustomerClassificationID 345). There. I think that's a better > explanation. So the question is, should the CustomerDetails > table contain column CustomerClassificationID or > ClassificationID? Either way I get a unique reference. I'm > just wondering which way is architecturally better. > > It may be worth pointing out that Customer 123's notion of > Admin has nothing to do with Customer 345's notion of Admin; > it's simply a device to let the data-entry people take > advantage of existing Classifications. No report (that I can > imagine) would ever require a list of all the Details of > Classification "Admin". It's always Customer-relative -- > except when we cruise Details by a column not mentioned so > far -- and that has no influence on the question. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A Database Design Question > > > Hi Arthur > > It is not completely clear if you would like to store new > classifications for the current customer only or for general > use so they could be attached to other customers' > CustomerDetails as well. > > Also: > > > When the user adds new CustomerDetails, we see > > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. > draw them > > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the > combo from > > > Classifications). > > How can you "get" text from Classifications when you are > "drawing" items from CustomerClassifications? How are these related? > > /gustav > > > > I have 4 tables (actually lots of instances of this setup, but for > > simplicity let's deal with one only): > > > Customers -- obvious > > CustomerDetails -- many Details for each Customer > Classifications -- a > > > list of generic classifications CustomerClassifications -- a table > > containing only the Classifications of interest to a given Customer > > > The general idea is this. We populate Classifications with lots of > > commonly-used items such as Admin, User, Manager, etc. We populate > > CustomerClassifications using a combo and a NotInList event that > > allows the addition of new Classifications that aren't > already in the > > Classifications table. When the user adds new > CustomerDetails, we see > > only the Classifications of interest to said Customer (i.e. > draw them > > from CustomerClassifications and get the text value for the > combo from > > > Classifications). > > > Still with me? I hope so. Here's the question: should the table > > CustomerDetails store the CustomerClassicationID or the > > ClassificationID? > > > TIA for opinions. > > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 31 11:18:53 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:18:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Is there an easier way? Message-ID: <000201c4472a$f77e61f0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> Folks, I am working on a system where I need to import (and update existing) name / address data from a bunch of files collected from the states. These files contain name / address / license information for individuals licensed to perform physical therapy etc. and come in all kinds of formats, with all kinds of field names, many of which we don't use, all of which which is making the problem tougher. In the end, for now, the files will be pre-processed (by hand in many cases) to get them into Excel files. The preprocessing will include putting the state abreviation into the first two characters of the file name and a "data type" code into the remaining characters. This still leaves the problem of different field names, i.e. one file may have "Last Name", the next "LastName", the next "Lname" etc. I have built a system that allows the user to select an Excel file using File Find dialog. The file is copied to an common location plus an archive location with a name that includes the date etc. The program strips the state code and looks it up in the state table, and strips the data type code and looks it up in the data type table. If all this "passes", then I lookup the file name in tblImportFile. If it does not exist I save the file name / path / stateid and datatype id in a new record. Most importantly, the file in the common location is dynamically linked to the FE to allow queries to be created. By that I mean that I reach into the table def and change the "database=" of the connect string to the name/path of the file being processed so that it points to the file just selected by the user. If this is a new file (first time processed), the user now "matches" field names using a pair of combos, one of which displays the field names in our table and the other displays the field names from the linked excel file. As long as the state does not change the field names, this process only occurs once per file. The results are stored in tblImportSpec. tblImportFile holds the file, path, state id and datatype id. tblImportSpec holds the ID from tblImportFile for the file being processed, then the matching field names from our table / their table. With me so far? I go through all this nonsense so that I can dynamically build a query that "aliases" their field name to our field name, plus grab the state ID and datatype ID (and import date) and build up a SQL statement that when executed results in their field names matching my field names, for whatever fields in their table match fields in our table. I then save this SQL string into the SQL property of an existing query def. Thus at any time you can open that query and look at the data in an excel spreadsheet, with the field names matching my field names, and a handful of Ids that match up to state Ids and data type ids etc. Once ALL of this is done, I filter out duplicates, allow the user to set up filters such as last name matches etc. then use the resulting data to build a temporary table of data. The whole point of this exercise is to get a table of data matching people in our database so that I can update their address information with the information that the state provides, and of course add new people not in our database. The major issues here - Various file formats Various fields, some of which are not needed Various field names for the fields that are needed The process needs to be done regularly (at least once per year, sometimes more often) so it needs to be possible for a user to do this. Is my solution harder than it needs to be? Has anyone handled a situation like this and if so, how do you deal with it? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 31 12:13:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:13:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Is there an easier way? In-Reply-To: <000201c4472a$f77e61f0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> References: <000201c4472a$f77e61f0$7e01a8c0@colbyws> Message-ID: <14335931286.20040531191328@cactus.dk> Hi John > Is my solution harder than it needs to be? Has anyone handled a > situation like this and if so, how do you deal with it? Your approach sounds pretty much like I would handle this task ... You are, of course, looking for some shortcuts but I don't think there will be any given the "dynamic" nature of the data formats. /gustav From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon May 31 13:19:57 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:19:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? Message-ID: <157240-220045131181957850@christopherhawkins.com> I suppose the title says it all. ;) Given a text file with numerous (all different) tokens in it, how would I replace them? I mean, I know how to replace tokens in a string, but I've never had to use a text file for a string before. Should I stuff the entire text file into an array and wash it through my detokenizing code until no more tokens are found? Should I read the file line-by-line, replacing tokens as I go? I'm just not sure how to get started here. -Christopher- From gustav at cactus.dk Mon May 31 13:53:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:53:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? In-Reply-To: <157240-220045131181957850@christopherhawkins.com> References: <157240-220045131181957850@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <3241912557.20040531205309@cactus.dk> Hi Christopher Yes, if the file is not very large (?), I would read the file line by line, replace tokens for each line and append the line to a new file. /gustav > Given a text file with numerous (all different) tokens in it, how > would I replace them? I mean, I know how to replace tokens in a > string, but I've never had to use a text file for a string before. > Should I stuff the entire text file into an array and wash it through > my detokenizing code until no more tokens are found? > Should I read the file line-by-line, replacing tokens as I go? From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon May 31 15:53:37 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:53:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? Message-ID: Line by line is ok if you're certain no tokens are split between lines. I once had to parse several hundred email log files from a news group to cull data for an access database. Each file was typically 300 to 800 K in size. I started by reading entire files into a string variable and then running the string manipulation code to parse but quickly determined that if I split the files into halves, each half took less than half the time to parse. I then split the file by halves, and halved the halves in a binary splitting procedure breaking on a space until the files were down to about 5 K. In that case, the time taken for splitting the string into quickly digested chunks was adding more time to the procedure than it saved. A bit of testing ultimately proved that a file size of around 7 to 8 K resulted in the best overall performance with the typical kind of data that needed to be processed. If I were to do it over again, I might be tempted to read in chunks at a time, finding the last delimiter and saving from there on in a temp variable to prepend to the next chunk to be read. I'm not certain that a line at a time will give the best performance but I do know from experience that excessively large strings take exponentially longer to process. The time for parsing a typical single file went from something like 5 to 10 minutes to under 30 seconds by splitting into smaller chunks before processing. Although VBA string variables can hold a a billion characters, that would probably take insanely long to process as a single string. If your text files are only a few hundred characters, I'd try timing the token operation on the full files. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Christopher Hawkins" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Replacing multiple tokens in a text file? >Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:19:57 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc11-f26.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.33]) by mc11-s5.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 31 May 2004 11:21:49 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc11-f26.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 31 May >2004 11:20:39 -0700 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i4VIJCQ01892;Mon, 31 May 2004 13:19:12 -0500 >Received: from mail-relay.gearhost.com (ns2.co.gearhost.net >[69.24.64.15])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i4VIIrQ01669for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 13:18:53 >-0500 >Received: from mail.gearhost.net ([69.24.64.25])by mail-relay.gearhost.com >(mail-relay.gearhost.com)(MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.0.R) with ESMTP id >md50000450849.msgfor ; Mon, 31 May 2004 >12:20:01 -0600 >Received: from christopherhawkins.com (unverified [127.0.0.1]) >bymail.gearhost.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id >for ; Mon, 31 >May 2004 12:19:57 -0600 >X-Message-Info: 1fLmhUU0vWFvdH+J6tlz6F85W0zaUsn6uS5jh9M9uj4= >Message-ID: <157240-220045131181957850 at christopherhawkins.com> >X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 0, 6 >X-EM-Registration: #00E0620610781F002A20 >X-Spam-Processed: mail-relay.gearhost.com, Mon, 31 May 2004 12:20:01 >-0600(not processed: spam filter disabled) >X-MDRemoteIP: 69.24.64.25 >X-Return-Path: clh at christopherhawkins.com >X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 May 2004 18:20:39.0809 (UTC) >FILETIME=[FA1D6710:01C4473B] > >I suppose the title says it all. ;) > >Given a text file with numerous (all different) tokens in it, how >would I replace them? I mean, I know how to replace tokens in a >string, but I've never had to use a text file for a string before. > >Should I stuff the entire text file into an array and wash it through >my detokenizing code until no more tokens are found? > >Should I read the file line-by-line, replacing tokens as I go? > >I'm just not sure how to get started here. > >-Christopher- > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 31 18:46:57 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:46:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms Message-ID: <004001c44769$8f93e8f0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I want to loop through the Forms collection and close any form/forms that is/are open. Any suggestions? Many thanks in advance Darren From glen_mcwilliams at msn.com Mon May 31 20:10:13 2004 From: glen_mcwilliams at msn.com (Glen McWilliams) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:10:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms Message-ID: Darren Here is a snippet from my shut-down module, which walks through the Forms collection closing any open form: '****Begin Code**** ' Close any open Forms. ' Loop through the Forms collection. For Each objTmp In dbsCurrent.Containers("Forms").Documents ' Assign the name propery value, for each Form, to the Name string variable. strName = objTmp.Name If gfnIsObjectOpenBln(acForm, _ strName) Then ' Use the Close method of the DoCmd object to close the specified object. DoCmd.Close acForm, strName End If ' Repeat the foregoing block of statements for the next element in the specified ' collection. Next objTmp '****End Code**** >From: "Darren DICK" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "AccessD List" >Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:46:57 +1000 > >Hello all > >I want to loop through the Forms collection and close any form/forms that >is/are open. > >Any suggestions? > >Many thanks in advance > >Darren > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon May 31 21:06:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:06:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms References: Message-ID: <004d01c4477c$fe162f00$48619a89@DDICK> Glen Many many thanks Just what I needed Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen McWilliams" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms > Darren > > Here is a snippet from my shut-down module, which walks through the Forms > collection closing any open form: > > '****Begin Code**** > ' Close any open Forms. > ' Loop through the Forms collection. > For Each objTmp In dbsCurrent.Containers("Forms").Documents > ' Assign the name propery value, for each Form, to the Name string > variable. > strName = objTmp.Name > If gfnIsObjectOpenBln(acForm, _ > strName) Then > ' Use the Close method of the DoCmd object to close the specified > object. > DoCmd.Close acForm, strName > End If > ' Repeat the foregoing block of statements for the next element in the > specified > ' collection. > Next objTmp > '****End Code**** > > > >From: "Darren DICK" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "AccessD List" > >Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Loop through Forms and close open forms > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:46:57 +1000 > > > >Hello all > > > >I want to loop through the Forms collection and close any form/forms that > >is/are open. > > > >Any suggestions? > > > >Many thanks in advance > > > >Darren > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com