[AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various

Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT) Developer at UltraDNT.com
Fri May 21 11:54:15 CDT 2004


Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea.  It was
accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access,
who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era)
I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work.
He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and
explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about
table design.  
Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any
forms.  His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design
right, can you make a decent application"

Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
DWUTKA at marlow.com
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various


Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a
valid topic.

Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS
course.  I worked cheap (for beer <grin>), but it just kills me what
they are having students do.  The 'instructions' for the assignments has
them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for
text fields, etc.  Just plain ugly.  In fact one instruction was so
goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some
VBA to have the same result.

It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. <grin>

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various


I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get
a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have
to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid
exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified
people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff.

What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking,
etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would
get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers
a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand
sometimes.

I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about,
until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in
their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'.
During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when
I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy
would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him
as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear,
just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director
of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my
professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work,
and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree,
I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my
bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math
degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak
with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the
'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me
a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only
give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student,
he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two
different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work
their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing
a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the
best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network
knowledge from working with this guy.

I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might
make things better. 

Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even
feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really
need to get on that OT list!

John W Clark


>>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>>

More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of
certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app
was slow with only 20 users on a net!


Arthur

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