[AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various

John W. Colby jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com
Wed May 26 06:43:26 CDT 2004


Scott,

There are no doubt databases where this is an issue but NOT in an access
database for crying out loud.  The max size it can EVER be is 2 GBytes.  Do
you know ANY computer out there that doesn't have 2Gbytes free?  ANY?  Your
MOM'S old Pentium 133 had 5g hard drives.  Assuming that this is going into
a company, $1000 will buy a BRAND NEW computer, with 120gb RAID1 (ENOUGH FOR
40 ACCESS DATABASES!!!!!!!!!) with a UPS to sit in the server room with
nothing but the ACCESS db.

I have been doing Access databases for 10 years now.  I have always just set
the size to 255.  I have tables with DOZENS of text fields of 255
characters.  I DO NOT SEE PROBLEMS WRITING THE DATA.  I do not see problems
with the database filling up because users are writing books in the address
fields.  If there were ANY validity to your "issue" I would at least see it
once or twice in 10 years, don't you think?

Perhaps you are not correctly normalizing your databases, using lookup
tables, with autonumber PKs for the lookup lists etc?  Allowing users to
write whatever they want in text fields when they should be using combos and
check boxes to enter correct data.  That would explain how you could have
issues that I am not seeing.

TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES.  My users
aren't filling every 256 byte field to the last byte.  They aren't filling
ANY fields to the last byte.  They are entering what you would expect to
enter, names, addresses etc.  TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE
FIELDS, NO ISSUES.

This is absolutely a NON ISSUE that you are trying to make an issue because
you have no valid issue.

TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE FIELDS, NO ISSUES.

Harp all you want, it is just harping.

By the way, did I mention... TEN YEARS, DOZENS OF DBS, ALL USING 255 BYTE
FIELDS, NO ISSUES.

Now, how many storage / length problems have YOU encountered?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:17 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various


Francisco,

What you have said is exactly why I keep harping on the size issue. It isn't
that the field can hold 255 characters, to me that is arbitrary. Well
said...

Scott Marcus
TSS Technologies, Inc.
marcus at tsstech.com
(513) 772-7000

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]  On Behalf Of Francisco H
Tapia
Sent:	Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:28 PM
To:	Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject:	Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various

DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/25/2004 3:32 PM:

>255 characters is a necessary limit.
>
>
How?

>20 characters for an address field is an arbitrary limit.  An assumption is
>made that no more then 20 characters is going to be used for that field.
It
>is not a necessary limit.  You may set a textbox to a particular size, but
>the textbox can be changed with little fuss.
>
>
>
Storage, albeit nowadays cheap, is still and should continue to be a
consideration for the lenght of a field.  A 20 Character address may be
too small especially when I've ran len selects to grab the maximum size
of an address field and have come up with: 53.  In Sql Server I can make
my varchar field up to 8000 characters for this field but does it really
make sense?, I can join and index it as well, but does it make sense to
do so?

Both of you should heed that just because you can doesn't mean you
"should".  Run a sample select on the existing data that your customers
use, if their max LEN on the address field is 20 characters expand that
by a few more as to give a tolarnce.  YOU WILL NEVER get it 100% perfect
as far as lenghts are concerned. but limiting the amount of space will
improve your storage needs.

Lastly, your Gas tank analogy is all wrong, Car makers put out various
sizes of tanks for each car.  By your logic they'd be strapping your
Ford Festiva w/ a Ford Expedition tank.

<snip>

>They'll be driving along, cruising down the
>data entry highway, then they'll realize they need to take a detour.
Detour
>is taken, and kaput, their system runs out of gas, so they have to call the
>tow-truck developer to come give them more gas to get home.  If they go on
>longer trips then what a normal car can hold, they need to buy a bigger gas
>tank (or compress the data, and get a more efficient car).  You want to
>provide your users with a full tank.  Filling the trunk with extra gas
cans,
>having a tanker drive beside them, or converting them to nuclear power is
>going to be overkill, unless they want to run forever without refueling.
>But that would be in the clients specs, wouldn't it?  If you give the users
>a full tank, and the client expects them to only go 100 miles, if their
>going off course to see their grandmother, or making trips to a strip club,
>or whatever, that is the Clients responsibility to monitor their users, not
>yours.
>
>
COMPUTER's are bound by limits.  There is only so much RAM, HDD, and
SWAP space.  When the database grows beyond it's hdd space it must be
transplanted to a bigger server, and eventually upsized to a bigger
database (SQL Server for instance).

it's all limits.  If you really want to provide the most amount of space
for your end users so they don't get limited, then why are you not
working with mySQL or MS SQL databases so you CAN provide up to 8000
characters per field.  HECK you never know they may want to write up the
instructions on how to get to the location rather than the actual ADDRESS!

Not limiting fields is just plain careless!

--
-Francisco


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