[AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..

Shamil Salakhetdinov shamil at users.mns.ru
Thu Aug 18 15:30:09 CDT 2005


<<<
would evangalize like crazy! ;-}
>>>
Exciting perspective! Anybody has money to pay for this work to accept
evangelizing crowds together? :)
(I'm sorry, I have no free resources and spare time right now but I'd make
it implemented quickly for moderate payment  after I finish the current
project - somewhere middle of the next month I expect.)

<<<
I LOVE being able to
> build methods and properties in the abstract and test them extensively
> before I ever create a UI object that uses them
>>>
Yes, this is one of XP's core ideas/methods - unit testing - and it gives a
lot of confidence that developed software will be stable....

<<<
It is really an extension of spec writing,
since you can easily model a spec
>>>
Yes, and acceptance tests are getting created while you're coding....
And regression testing when new features are implemented becomes just a
childish game opposed to traditional development/testing when it usually
takes a lot of time...

<<<
> Ndoc stuff, but  I am NOT a C (any flavor) programmer and don't want to
> become one.
>>>
I don't see big difference between C# and VB.NET - they both like VB6/VBA
for me:)
Even easier to use them in fact - no need usually to care about grabage
collection, which have to be manually done in VB6/VBA advanced
programming...

Just give it a try to program on C#  - I guess you will need just a few days
to start programming on it ...

As for XML comments - they say VBCommenter can help here -
http://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=112b5449-f702-46e2-87fa-86bdf39a17dd
(I didn't try it).

And the docs NDoc (and the like) create are very good.

I think it would be very useful addition to your Unit Testing/XP pratices -
to create impressive and useful program documentation while you are
coding....

Shamil

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:51 PM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..


> I don't think it would be "broadly" used because it isn't used enough
> now even in languages that support it, but developers who become
> familiar with it, would evangalize like crazy! ;-}  I LOVE being able to
> build methods and properties in the abstract and test them extensively
> before I ever create a UI object that uses them.  It is really an
> extension of spec writing, since you can easily model a spec and test to
> see if the results you get are the ones you expect.  I've looked at the
> Ndoc stuff, but  I am NOT a C (any flavor) programmer and don't want to
> become one.
>
> Charlotte
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru]
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:48 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
>
>
> > Like Nunit testing, for instance.  Now THERE's a topic I could get
> > excited about if someone would like to rewrite it to work with VBA ...
> So, you wanted JUnit/NUnit ideas ported to MS Access/VBA?
> We're thinking in the same direction :)
> Do you think it could be broadly used? (VBA is getting "dead" language?)
>
> Yes, VBA/Access Unit  testing can be done several ways.
> I'd use open source NUnit sources for starters....
> Rough estimation: not that much work - one/a couple of months  - anybody
> to sponsor? :)
>
> What about NDoc(http://ndoc.sourceforge.net/) ?
> Also wanted to port it to VBA? - no problem - any sponsors? :)
>
> Shamil
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com>
> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
>
>
> > Yes, I work with ADO.Net a lot, but in VB.Net, not Access, and I
> > haven't even looked at C#.  Most of my time is now spent in VB.Net,
> > but I keep thinking of how nice it would be to be able to do some of
> > these things with Access ... Like Nunit testing, for instance.  Now
> > THERE's a topic I could get excited about if someone would like to
> > rewrite it to work with VBA ... Hint, hint, hint. ;-}
> >
> > Charlotte
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:04 AM
> > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> >
> >
> > > but have never had time to really pursue it.
> > Yes, the same thoughts/experience here.
> > Finally ADO.NET and WithEvents should make it rather easy to
> > implement...
> >
> > I think/plan, I will return to this subject end of the next week,
> > hopefully with some new results to publish as public domain/open
> > source...
> >
> > Meanwhile I have to finish reading two books about XP in C#  and "MS
> > Object Thinking" and make some experiments in ADO.NET and a good
> > progress in a pending urgent project...
> >
> > Any ideas about directions in which to develop this small project are
> > very welcome!
> >
> > Thank you for your support!
> >
> > Shamil
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com>
> > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> >
> >
> > > Not interesting, Shamil, FASCINATING!  Yes, I do hope you continue
> > > this thread.  Please!  I've often thought of this kind of thing but
> > > have never had time to really pursue it.
> > >
> > > Charlotte Foust
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:02 AM
> > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> > >
> > >
> > > Charlotte,
> > >
> > > Your <VBG> means you're interested in continuation of this
> > > subject/thread or...? In my plans is to extend and make all the
> > > source
> >
> > > code available. How soon it will happen this is an open question - I
>
> > > have an urgent project here. But I do plan to continue this thread
> > > and
> >
> > > work if this looks interesting for you and others here. Maybe even
> > > make it open source project here when first useful results will be
> > > achieved? It would be interesting I guess to make it also XP(eXtreme
> > > Programming) style work with your being subject area expert - I mean
>
> > > your best knowing in what scenarios and in what business areas is
> > > the best to use MS Access in bound but disconnected mode with most
> > > of the software (MS Access FE
> > > databases) developed by power users but integrated by "mighty MS
> > > Access developers"? :)
> > >
> > > I know how to do all that, I know how to make MS Access applications
>
> > > assembly factories etc. - I have all that experience and I can share
>
> > > it if/when I will have spare time - is that interesting?
> > >
> > > Shamil
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com>
> > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:35 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> > >
> > >
> > > > Oooohhh, I think I'm in love!  <VBG>
> > > >
> > > > Charlotte Foust
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:46 AM
> > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, William, this is not replication - here is what I mean in
> > > > short:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/articles/ddo.htm
> > > >
> > > > Shamil
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "William Hindman" <dejpolsys at hotmail.com>
> > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> > > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 3:47 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Shamil
> > > > >
> > > > > ..I must be missing something ...that sounds like replication to
>
> > > > > me.
> > > > >
> > > > > William
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at users.mns.ru>
> > > > > To: "!DBA-MAIN" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:28 PM
> > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications..
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wanted to ask you - what about the subject?
> > > > > > Anybody uses/interested to use MS Access client applications
> > > > > > this way?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do I miss obvious (RTFM) stuff and such a disconnected mode is
>
> > > > > > already implemented in MS Access and broadly used by MS Access
>
> > > > > > developers? Yes,
> > > > I
> > > > > > know ADO recordsets can be used with bound MS Access forms
> > > > > > etc. but this looks like a rather limited feature - am I
> > > > > > wrong?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I mean is cashing data locally into mdbs, only the data
> > > > > > needed for the currently open form(s) etc., processing this
> > > > > > data
> >
> > > > > > and then updating backend database(mdb, MSDE, MS SQL,
> > > > > > whatever...)
> > >
> > > > > > - with all this cashing and updating made mostly automatically
>
> > > > > > by a tiny framework code, based
> > > > on
> > > > > > ADO.NET...(yes, this local caching of data is not a new
> > > > > > subject but nowadays it can be (re-)implement really scalable
> > > > > > way with a
> >
> > > > > > way less efforts
> > > > than
> > > > > > before)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe MS plans to do something like that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is that a wheel reinvention or anybody here sees such
> > > > > > opportunity like a really useful feature in their real life
> > > > > > projects?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For me it looks like a useful feature because it could help:
> > > > > > to get MS Access back into mainstream development area because
>
> > > > > > it will allow to easily scale applications with MS Access
> > > > > > front-ends...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are many other ideas but most of them in this "ideas
> > > > > > pool"
> >
> > > > > > based
> > > > on
> > > > > > the subject one - if it doesn't make sense for real-life
> > > > > > projects then
> > > > I'd
> > > > > > better stop working on it...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What is your opinion about the subject?
> > > > > > When you expect MS will do something like that in MS Access?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > Shamil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
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