[AccessD] OT: Why did Mac switch to Intel revisted

Shamil Salakhetdinov shamil at users.mns.ru
Fri Aug 19 15:28:29 CDT 2005


> the crash I described can
> even happen when you just begin to type on a line while the program is
> at a breakpoint.
They probably reuse some MS Access 97 interpretator code - just kidding :)
Seriously they had similar problem in MS Access 97, in MS Access 2000 it was
better, in MS Access XP/2003 it's even better but they disallowed to save
modules in MS Acces while debugging in "Edit & Continue" mode. MS Acces 2003
is still crashing in complicated cases of "Edit & Continue" and you never
know when... (And in MS Access 97 it was exactly like you describe - as soon
as you start typing it crashes. Another famous problem when the last edited
line of "Edit and Continue" mode  in MS Access 97 was lost etc - never
believe them! In fact eXtreme Programming is an answer here too - XP doesn't
need Edit and continue development mode...

> Granted, this was a little bit
> ago and they may have made improvements to the obfuscators now.
I did use/try several obfuscators this spring (April) - the best of them
make code absolutely unreproducable I think.
After tests my customer decided that Xenocode in standard mode ($99) is good
enough.

>If you search the MSDN docs you should
>be able to find easy ways to build this implementation in.
OK, thanks, I will read about that...

> restricting you from a common easy error, but at
> the cost of speed and efficiency.
But if the code doesn't have custom memory allocation/deallocation calls
i.e. it uses garbage collector like .NET then by definition it should be
more efficient - right? Or do you mean that .NET garbage collector is slow?

> In the example of the garbage collector: It is unnecessary to use the
> collector if you manage your resources of your classes and code
> properly so that you do not leak any resources.
Well, the cost to manage resources properly is high - I did do that in MS
Access 97/2000/XP/2003 and VB6 and in C/C++/Delphi.
Automaic intelligent garbage collector is a real "life saver".
Of course in complicated cases one has to force resources deallocation -
.NET has IDisposable interface for that as it's well known....

> I wasn't trying to promote the .NET as a restrictive language. I was
> trying to state that MS and others can make framework seem more
> flexible and easier to maintain, but that the same effect can also be
> achieved by good coding practices and software design policy.
We probably talk about different subjects here - when I asked "how do you
will restrict the quantity of attributes and methods of a class using good
coding pratices and software design policy?" (this is what happening
"automagically" when one uses XP and classical behavioral OO design and
development) I meant that there is no probably any other good coding
practice and software design policy except XP, which allows to do that so
flexibly and almost seamlessly - of course this work needs really "high
pilotage design & development experience" - I'm not there yet, rather far
from there I think....

Whatever else good coding design practice and software design policy one
invents they inevitably go XP way - that's what I meant....

As for .NET Framework vs. something "home made" - I'm not MS advocate but
I'd say that programming in VS.NET is like a "dream come true" -  finally,
after 20+ years of my programming experience...

Shamil

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh McFarlane" <darsant at gmail.com>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why did Mac switch to Intel revisted


> On 8/19/05, Shamil Salakhetdinov <shamil at users.mns.ru> wrote:
> > Josh,
> >
> > Do you mean VS.NET 2005 Beta 2 when you talk about Edit & Continue
feature?
> > You guess they will never be able to make it stable? (they managed to do
> > that with VB6 and even in MS Access 2003 (although both VB6 and MS
Access
> > 2003 still may crash unexpectedly in complicated cases) - they will
probably
> > make it working stable somewhere in not that far future? No any hopes
you
> > think?
>
> Well, I'm using it mainly in reference to VC++, and having tried it on
> VS.NET 2002, 2003, and now 2005, they all have inherient crash issues
> even when doing simple things (for example, the crash I described can
> even happen when you just begin to type on a line while the program is
> at a breakpoint.
>
> > By using reflection I mean injecting specific attributes BEFORE
Just-in-time
> > compilation, just as one of thr possible ways to do that, in fact it
will
> > not be needed probably because attributes will be inline with the source
> > code...
>
> Ah, I misunderstood you there.
>
> > Did you try any of obfuscators or other methods to protect compiled code
> > from reverse engineering? - I did - and I found they are good enough
even
> > the cheap ones, and expensive ones are very good.
>
> I've tried a few different ones, and while some parts of the code
> would be obfuscatied, core components such as algorithms were still
> semi-reproducable in some test cases. Granted, this was a little bit
> ago and they may have made improvements to the obfuscators now.
>
> > I have heard they made good progress with ATL in VS.NET 2005. But I
can't
> > judge here because I do use ATL a few.
> > I didn't know that much about prioritizing threads to logical processors
and
> > HyperThreading.
>
> Basically the way the multicore processors work at this moment (at
> least to the current library of MS code) is that they are just treated
> as hyper-threading processors. If you search the MSDN docs you should
> be able to find easy ways to build this implementation in.
>
>
> > "Good software design policies" if I got that correctly is a very broad
term
> > Do you mean they can restrict also the quantity of attributes and
methods of
> > a class? If yes - could you please post an example of such software
design
> > ploicy here or give a reference to it, which also shows that it worked
in a
> > real life project?
>
> Well, the classic example I like to use is the garbage collector.
> Normally in C++ you handle allocation / deallocation of objects on the
> heap yourself. In managed C++ with .NET you can use the garbage
> collector so you don't have to worry about memory leaks from heap
> allocated objects, restricting you from a common easy error, but at
> the cost of speed and efficiency.
>
> I wasn't trying to promote the .NET as a restrictive language. I was
> trying to state that MS and others can make framework seem more
> flexible and easier to maintain, but that the same effect can also be
> achieved by good coding practices and software design policy.
>
> In the example of the garbage collector: It is unnecessary to use the
> collector if you manage your resources of your classes and code
> properly so that you do not leak any resources.
>
> Microsoft seems to be taking the approach towards creating an
> easier-to-use interface (.NET) and it seems that the more default
> customizable interfaces are being left in the dust because of it.
>
> -- 
> Josh McFarlane
> "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
> -Albert Einstein
> -- 
> AccessD mailing list
> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




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